**KNOWN SPRING OF SORROW ISSUE**
We noticed a number of the Spring of Sorrow objectives aren't working properly, we are investigating and currently working on a potential solution.
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Options

My issue with Summer of Pain

123468

Comments

  • Options
    Onurre2Onurre2 Posts: 174 ★★
    As I said this discussion is over to me. A guy that attacks to a character is a low one himself.
  • Options
    HipocerosHipoceros Posts: 88
    Hey People , I think that talking about "the event SOP is easy is more about , "People, I'm a Fantastic player but nobody sees my YouTube channel, so you can know I can clear it easily" than a real complain. You always can make the content harder. Karina challenge is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I guess kabam easily can see the amount of players doing the challenge and they are doing well balancing the skill required and the difficulty of the fights. I'm finished 100% of the game, Abyss, act 7, act 6 Prenerf, etc, and I can say it takes 1 or 2 hours to clear the SOP objectives mostly because I have a very wide roster . But some guys in my alliance (with only one or two 6r3) have to fight with 4☆ in some cases and they really have is pain delivered...
    If it is too easy , ask for some new content /rules/ challenges without talk about the content already delivered because a lot of people are having a hard time at the actual scenario.
    And I'm 200% in to ask for harder and challenging new content that can finally empty my stash 😜
    Best regards.
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★
    Ebony_Naw said:

    Onurre2 said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    How about gauntlet ??
    Ah, so because it’s 4 events in 2 and a half years is that ok now? One event for end game players every 7 and a half months sounds good doesn’t it. And it sounds even better when the rest of the player base gets a variant every few months, or 7.1 or 7.2 every few months, Cav EQ each month, champion challenges and boss rushes.

    But you’d argue that that’s fine, because End game players get 4 pieces of content in 2 and a half years.

    I’m not arguing that every piece of content should be aimed at end game players, but a little more than once every 7 and a half months would be appreciated.
    Just to add, I don't believe you are saying that you need more content. But when content is stated as being designed for you, it should be ok to expect that it is indeed designed for you. And if that is the premise of the feedback, I will continue to support it.
    For sure, I’m only asking for end game content that challenges me. And that I didn’t particularly feel challenged by summer of pain or carina challenges. Both of which were touted as super hard end game content, and didn’t really deliver
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Onurre2 said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    How about gauntlet ??
    Ah, so because it’s 4 events in 2 and a half years is that ok now? One event for end game players every 7 and a half months sounds good doesn’t it. And it sounds even better when the rest of the player base gets a variant every few months, or 7.1 or 7.2 every few months, Cav EQ each month, champion challenges and boss rushes.

    But you’d argue that that’s fine, because End game players get 4 pieces of content in 2 and a half years.

    I’m not arguing that every piece of content should be aimed at end game players, but a little more than once every 7 and a half months would be appreciated.
    Actually, I would expect end game-like content that targets the top 1-2% or so to come out once or twice a year, and end game-like content that target the actual top tier progression players that have basically done everything and are at a progress point where all that stuff is no longer challenging (to differentiate from a player who has done everything by spending through it) to come out about once every year and a half to two years.

    All other things being equal, I would expect the devs to spend a roughly proportional amount of time on progression wedges of players. If you were targeting the top 5% of players, you should be spending about 5% of your total content development energy on those players. If you're targeting the 25% wedge of middle progress players, you should be spending about 25% of your development energy.

    End game content is different, because there are special concerns. If there were not these special concerns, the top 0.5% of players should expect the devs to apportion about 0.5% of their development time to them. That would amount to one piece of end game content every ten years or so. But because end game content is aspirational to a degree (it is conspicuous by absence) and because end game players have special content requirements, games should spend way more than proportional time. I personally would probably allocate something like 5% of my development energy on top tier end game content that was targeting maybe the top 0.5% of players, and maybe an additional 5% on additional content that was targeting a wider 1-2% of players.

    In rough terms, that equates to one piece of top tier end game content every eighteen months or so, and three pieces of lesser end game content every two years or so. That's 10% of my content development budget expended on about 2% of the players. I would have difficulty justifying a much larger ratio than that, even accounting for the importance of end game content relative to standard content.

    That's in the general ballpark of MCOC's end game content ratio, plus or minus.
    I don’t think it’s as black and white as that, as said before, any content made for the 25% wedge of middle players won’t satisfy the challenge of the 1%, however content made for the top 1% can trickle down and satisfy the 25%.

    And in any case, I’m not asking for content every few months. But when carina challenge and summer of pain haven’t been what was promised. I’m worried kabam won’t or can’t make truly difficult content again.
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★
    Bugmat78 said:

    Bugmat78 said:

    Probably they should have made Summer of Pain limited to one entry per player per day for the week (so 7 tries basicaly). That would have been VERY painful.

    You either beat it with the champ you brought in on that day or wait until tomorrow to try a different counter. People would probably use more revives trying to beat it that way and it would have been extremely painful w/o perfect cpounters.

    The main reason it has been so easy for most is the unlimited number of entries to get to the fight - you can practice dozens of times to get it right. And with everyone and their mom doing such and collaborating it was never goin to be difficult in this format. The rewards are worth a few revives each fight if needed.

    That cannot be done with marathon content like Abyss or Gauntlet... imagine needing to practice the Cyclops fight in Abyss and how many other marathon fights it would take to reach there with different counters.

    Just to be clear I am okay with how it is currently, but to those disappointed may i suggest to kabam they do it my way next time :D

    That isn’t fun, nor is it what we have been asking for
    But it seems to me that people are now complaining because something is fun... and easy. And the reason it is both of those things , is because we have unlimited attempts for the entire community to get it done for a week.

    How can you change something like this to make it harder (as advertised) yet still fun? Many would say Gauntlet wasnt fun but the rewards were worth it so they did it. Same with Abyss.

    What exactly are the people complaining in here about the current Smmer of Pain asking for?? Is it that you want a new Abyss every 5-6 months?

    Or a new Maze every quarter with Abyss type fights that is only around a week? Because if it is around longer then it is simply a unit sink that anyone can get through (like Abyss).
    If kabam had said from the outset, this is summer of pain, it’s not designed to be as difficult as we originally intended and we’ve decided to make it more accessible, I’d have much less disappointment in it. That’s why it appears “too easy”. Because for me, content has a few boxes to tick, and when it’s hyped to be difficult and isn’t, it doesn’t tick that box.

    I enjoy variants and 7.1 and 2, because they aren’t hyped to be difficult and my expectations aren’t high for their difficulty. But when kabam hype SoP to the moon, and then put out fights that are essentially just kinda tough act 6 bosses, it’s not as much of a challenge and is disappointing
  • Options
    LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 8,661 ★★★★★
    Hipoceros said:

    Hey People , I think that talking about "the event SOP is easy is more about , "People, I'm a Fantastic player but nobody sees my YouTube channel, so you can know I can clear it easily" than a real complain. You always can make the content harder. Karina challenge is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I guess kabam easily can see the amount of players doing the challenge and they are doing well balancing the skill required and the difficulty of the fights. I'm finished 100% of the game, Abyss, act 7, act 6 Prenerf, etc, and I can say it takes 1 or 2 hours to clear the SOP objectives mostly because I have a very wide roster . But some guys in my alliance (with only one or two 6r3) have to fight with 4☆ in some cases and they really have is pain delivered...
    If it is too easy , ask for some new content /rules/ challenges without talk about the content already delivered because a lot of people are having a hard time at the actual scenario.
    And I'm 200% in to ask for harder and challenging new content that can finally empty my stash 😜
    Best regards.

    I disagree. People complaining that it's too easy are really looking for content that will challenge them and the way the SoP was advertised seemed to be just the thing. They are genuinely disappointed. Personally I'm surprised it has been this easy, but I'm not complaining because I have very little time to play atm so I'm just happy for the free rewards. The announcement for this content made it sound like the hardest thing in the game that would challenge the very top players, and that's what they were hoping it would be.
  • Options
    ReferenceReference Posts: 2,899 ★★★★★
    SOP event completed yet? Not yet.

    Current fights good enough to justify the difficulty of future challenges? Very subjective statement.

    Is the 1st six bosses easy? Depends. Some I can KO in the 1st fight (because I knew in advance the recommended counters from this forum, reddit, twitter, line ....etc.) but some I need to restart over 30 times to get that one shot kill. My theory is that I never judge a fight easy from my perspective. I can do it doesn't imply every TB can, vice versa.

    Can Kabam create the toughest content for those top 1% players? I support that even though I definitely not in that 1%. In fact, I seldom see those 1% players active in this forum nor complain the difficulty in their channels. What they did is really like some of the peoples mentioned above: if the content is easy, they use lower level champ to tackle. Pure skill demonstration.

    Is summoner showdown / SDCC / NYCC a content for those top 1% players? I think so. Many times those seldomly appeared pro players appeared during those events. I'm ok if Kabam launch more of these kind of events, such that those self-claimed ENDGAMERS can find a challenges.
  • Options
    Geralt_123Geralt_123 Posts: 595 ★★★
    I will wait to see the challenges of later week.
    The great thing about this event that you can practice unlimited times and it is improving my skill immensely!
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★

    I will wait to see the challenges of later week.
    The great thing about this event that you can practice unlimited times and it is improving my skill immensely!

    Yeah for sure! I think that's such a great part of this Summer of Pain event, it's probably the best opportunity to sharpen up skills you need for end game content. Kabam have really done well with that aspect
  • Options
    Thanos1149Thanos1149 Posts: 1,136 ★★★
    As a cavalier player I am fine with this difficulty of fights lol, but I definitely expected them to be harder. I thought I was being to hopeful at the idea of me getting only 5 points, but I’m 6 on 6 on it right now. And when Kabam said the first 3 were the warm up fights, I became half depressed at the idea of fighting the rest of the champs when the first 3 seemed so hard. But it turns out that’s where it stopped becoming difficult and the rest were easy.
  • Options
    Bugmat78Bugmat78 Posts: 2,278 ★★★★★
    edited July 2021

    I will wait to see the challenges of later week.
    The great thing about this event that you can practice unlimited times and it is improving my skill immensely!

    Yeah for sure! I think that's such a great part of this Summer of Pain event, it's probably the best opportunity to sharpen up skills you need for end game content. Kabam have really done well with that aspect
    As I said earlier this is exactly why it is so easy for end gamers and even those who aren't. I have seen top players have to restart some of these fights up to 7+ times live to get a one shot and avoid using resources.

    If they had limited entries it would have been a much more challenging or at least costly proposition.

    That's the only way they can challenge us in this type of one fight content, outside of putting counterproductive nodes that only benefit the defender, or giving the defender 10 million health points.

    So yes maybe they hyped it too much.. Or maybe they changed something (or nothing and the Meta moved on) since 2020 (like the number of entries, nodes or the health points) to make it easier.
  • Options
    DawsManDawsMan Posts: 2,169 ★★★★★
    theham said:

    Also remember that Maze rewards were relatively poor for the time, yet many endgamers still loved it.

    And notice how SOP rewards are relatively so much better but the content's not as well liked. Just shows how content matters more than rewards.

    I'm fully behind the devs banning champs based on year and designing content around that.


    Lots of people like SOP and the maze is much more similar to grandmaster gauntlet which the rewards were absolutely bangin and everybody liked the fights. comparing the wrong thing
  • Options
    phillgreenphillgreen Posts: 3,903 ★★★★★
    edited July 2021
    I'll backread tomorrow but the OP is 100% on the money. Cav players, even if they missed a fight *cough, mysterio* are almost guaranteed to hit the max cap unless they bought their way to cav in the first place.

    Imagine if SOP was restricted to 6* or your champ was locked out of all rarities if you miss.
  • Options
    xNigxNig Posts: 7,310 ★★★★★

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    So if we look back now, in retrospect. 6.2 gates were actually a good thing?
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    A few gauntlet fights, rogue in SoP were the right level of challenging for me, even with the options we have. Showing Kabam can make hard fights nowadays and it’s not required to restrict rosters.

    The issue with restricting rosters by year is that people rank up who they want to use, and more often than not, they’ll rank up later year champions as the abilities progress and get better as time goes on. So by restricting rosters you can take that run away from it. However, I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing some content like you’ve suggested with a restriction.

    Carina challenge really wasn’t it for me, it’s literally just the argument of “just use 3*” embodied in content. It’s going back and doing previous fights with lower ranked champions, just more health and more attack. It was ok, but not what I’m looking for.
  • Options
    xNig said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    So if we look back now, in retrospect. 6.2 gates were actually a good thing?
    To add difficulty, probably. In the current buff schedule, certainly.
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    So if we look back now, in retrospect. 6.2 gates were actually a good thing?
    Yep, I have always liked the 6.2 gates. It encourages roster depth, using different champions and ranking up new ones. Been a fan of them for ages
  • Options

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    A few gauntlet fights, rogue in SoP were the right level of challenging for me, even with the options we have. Showing Kabam can make hard fights nowadays and it’s not required to restrict rosters.

    The issue with restricting rosters by year is that people rank up who they want to use, and more often than not, they’ll rank up later year champions as the abilities progress and get better as time goes on. So by restricting rosters you can take that run away from it. However, I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing some content like you’ve suggested with a restriction.

    Carina challenge really wasn’t it for me, it’s literally just the argument of “just use 3*” embodied in content. It’s going back and doing previous fights with lower ranked champions, just more health and more attack. It was ok, but not what I’m looking for.
    You do realize SOP is a rehash of the toughest fights across the battlerealm. They have to run that fine line of adding objectives as well. The biggest thing to consider is many of those fights were tough....at the time. They have to be creative to make it kinda sorta tough now as well.
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    A few gauntlet fights, rogue in SoP were the right level of challenging for me, even with the options we have. Showing Kabam can make hard fights nowadays and it’s not required to restrict rosters.

    The issue with restricting rosters by year is that people rank up who they want to use, and more often than not, they’ll rank up later year champions as the abilities progress and get better as time goes on. So by restricting rosters you can take that run away from it. However, I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing some content like you’ve suggested with a restriction.

    Carina challenge really wasn’t it for me, it’s literally just the argument of “just use 3*” embodied in content. It’s going back and doing previous fights with lower ranked champions, just more health and more attack. It was ok, but not what I’m looking for.
    You do realize SOP is a rehash of the toughest fights across the battlerealm. They have to run that fine line of adding objectives as well. The biggest thing to consider is many of those fights were tough....at the time. They have to be creative to make it kinda sorta tough now as well.
    If I was arguing that SoP should be harder, then it’s pretty evident that kabam could have added new nodes or changed the fights to make them harder. I’m not sure if many of the fights so far have been the exact same as they were in their original forms.

    But as I’ve said before, I think SoP is pretty good as it is, I think because it’s temporary it shouldn’t be as hard as end gamers expect, however we should get that hard content somewhere.
  • Options
    Bugmat78Bugmat78 Posts: 2,278 ★★★★★
    Difficulty is also relative. As said by many ahead the only way to make fights "tougher" is to restrict them; either by limited champs, more nodes (which is where things like true focus come in), insane health pools, or limited attempts.

    Even when they do get creative, once one player figures it out (by having the opportunity to easily repeat the fight) we all do and it becomes easier than originally intended.

    I don't think any content can be truly challenging now with the variety of champions and abilities in the game, without there being hard restrictions on the fight.
This discussion has been closed.