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My issue with Summer of Pain

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  • Options
    BerjibsBerjibs Posts: 1,523 ★★★★
    They are getting there with sop, carinas and GG but there’s certainly room to up the ante.

    The sop fights for the most part were a little too basic in structure. They needed more layers. There’s been far more complex cav eq bosses. Combo and parry specials. Tricky. Stun lock with 3* Ronan, not really what we are looking for at this level.

    Obviously there were particular champ combos that made things more tricky or interesting but we were not exactly forced down those avenues with any regularity. Having zero energy allowed a bit of experimentation in that respect with less suitable counters and lower rarity champs which was appreciated.

    Having said that, while I enjoyed a lot of the fights I expected more challenge than clearing them within the first few hours of going live.

    I love the format of both SOP and GG that just lets you get straight into the nitty gritty whether it’s a quick 2 minute shot or a more intense session of repeats. Also really enjoyed a few of the less resource hungry carinas.

    Really hope they give us a winter of supreme discontent or something as once SOP is gone I’ll be missing it straight away despite the mild shortcomings.

    Rewards were really solid, better than expected, and I liked that all groups of players pretty much had something juicy to go for even if the top tier stuff is not immediately relevant or rewarding to my accounts.
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    walkerdog said:

    xNig said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    So if we look back now, in retrospect. 6.2 gates were actually a good thing?
    Yep, I have always liked the 6.2 gates. It encourages roster depth, using different champions and ranking up new ones. Been a fan of them for ages
    The gates are terrible design bc they don't count 6* or allow 4*.
    No. It’s exactly that they don’t count 6*s that they’re wonderful. It puts people right at where their supposed progression should be in A6, 5*s at R4/5. No 6* R3/4/5s that steamroll through the defenders unlike earlier acts, then have those players complaining that content is too difficult simply because they’ve not built up the skill and knowledge to tackle them.
    Exactly, 6* were so rare when people who act 6 was aimed at on release did them, that it was perfect for progression. And now, it stops someone from skipping the natural progression and encourages widening your roster, instead of having 5 good champions and then getting stuck in later content
  • Options
    PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    So if we look back now, in retrospect. 6.2 gates were actually a good thing?
    It's funny seeing my comments yesterday being repeated today. Yes, the gates were ahead of their time and people did not appreciate it enough. Don't care what anyone says. We need gates to come back if we need to see any real challenge.
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★
    walkerdog said:

    xNig said:

    walkerdog said:

    xNig said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    So if we look back now, in retrospect. 6.2 gates were actually a good thing?
    Yep, I have always liked the 6.2 gates. It encourages roster depth, using different champions and ranking up new ones. Been a fan of them for ages
    The gates are terrible design bc they don't count 6* or allow 4*.
    No. It’s exactly that they don’t count 6*s that they’re wonderful. It puts people right at where their supposed progression should be in A6, 5*s at R4/5. No 6* R3/4/5s that steamroll through the defenders unlike earlier acts, then have those players complaining that content is too difficult simply because they’ve not built up the skill and knowledge to tackle them.
    But it also punished people for building up their roster into act 5. It was a pretty obvious money-grab, not a feature and to defend the specificity of it is pretty simple-minded.
    How is it a money grab?

    4* weren’t available in 6.1, so how does 6.2 punish you for making you use 5*, when you couldn’t use them already?
  • Options
    PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★

    walkerdog said:

    xNig said:

    walkerdog said:

    xNig said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    So if we look back now, in retrospect. 6.2 gates were actually a good thing?
    Yep, I have always liked the 6.2 gates. It encourages roster depth, using different champions and ranking up new ones. Been a fan of them for ages
    The gates are terrible design bc they don't count 6* or allow 4*.
    No. It’s exactly that they don’t count 6*s that they’re wonderful. It puts people right at where their supposed progression should be in A6, 5*s at R4/5. No 6* R3/4/5s that steamroll through the defenders unlike earlier acts, then have those players complaining that content is too difficult simply because they’ve not built up the skill and knowledge to tackle them.
    But it also punished people for building up their roster into act 5. It was a pretty obvious money-grab, not a feature and to defend the specificity of it is pretty simple-minded.
    How is it a money grab?

    4* weren’t available in 6.1, so how does 6.2 punish you for making you use 5*, when you couldn’t use them already?
    One issue a lot of people faced was 6 stars did not count when the path was gated to use 4* 5 star champs. You may have a warlock as 6 star that you ranked up, but you cannot use him since you need 5 star champs. May be that is what OP meant.
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    walkerdog said:

    xNig said:

    walkerdog said:

    xNig said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    So if we look back now, in retrospect. 6.2 gates were actually a good thing?
    Yep, I have always liked the 6.2 gates. It encourages roster depth, using different champions and ranking up new ones. Been a fan of them for ages
    The gates are terrible design bc they don't count 6* or allow 4*.
    No. It’s exactly that they don’t count 6*s that they’re wonderful. It puts people right at where their supposed progression should be in A6, 5*s at R4/5. No 6* R3/4/5s that steamroll through the defenders unlike earlier acts, then have those players complaining that content is too difficult simply because they’ve not built up the skill and knowledge to tackle them.
    But it also punished people for building up their roster into act 5. It was a pretty obvious money-grab, not a feature and to defend the specificity of it is pretty simple-minded.
    How is it a money grab?

    4* weren’t available in 6.1, so how does 6.2 punish you for making you use 5*, when you couldn’t use them already?
    One issue a lot of people faced was 6 stars did not count when the path was gated to use 4* 5 star champs. You may have a warlock as 6 star that you ranked up, but you cannot use him since you need 5 star champs. May be that is what OP meant.
    Perhaps, but I was going off the “punished people who built their roster into act 5”. So that implies 4*, if Walkerdog meant 6* then my apologies.

    Regardless, it doesn’t punish 6* either, as ranking and using 5* encourages roster depth, and 5* are plenty good for act 6.
  • Options
    xNigxNig Posts: 7,310 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    xNig said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    So if we look back now, in retrospect. 6.2 gates were actually a good thing?
    It's funny seeing my comments yesterday being repeated today. Yes, the gates were ahead of their time and people did not appreciate it enough. Don't care what anyone says. We need gates to come back if we need to see any real challenge.
    Haha. I supported the gates upon 6.2 release when everyone was trashing them. 🤷🏻‍♂️
  • Options
    xNigxNig Posts: 7,310 ★★★★★
    walkerdog said:

    xNig said:

    walkerdog said:

    xNig said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    So if we look back now, in retrospect. 6.2 gates were actually a good thing?
    Yep, I have always liked the 6.2 gates. It encourages roster depth, using different champions and ranking up new ones. Been a fan of them for ages
    The gates are terrible design bc they don't count 6* or allow 4*.
    No. It’s exactly that they don’t count 6*s that they’re wonderful. It puts people right at where their supposed progression should be in A6, 5*s at R4/5. No 6* R3/4/5s that steamroll through the defenders unlike earlier acts, then have those players complaining that content is too difficult simply because they’ve not built up the skill and knowledge to tackle them.
    But it also punished people for building up their roster into act 5. It was a pretty obvious money-grab, not a feature and to defend the specificity of it is pretty simple-minded.
    You can look at it both ways.

    It was punishing those that were trying to push far too fast, and rewarding those that were following the natural progression of the game.

    The game LACKED gates from A3 to A5, resulting in players having thin shallow laughable 3/4* rosters clearing them, then having these same jokers who skipped progression complain about needing these 3/4*s for objective completion.
  • Options
    PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Pulyaman said:

    xNig said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    So if we look back now, in retrospect. 6.2 gates were actually a good thing?
    It's funny seeing my comments yesterday being repeated today. Yes, the gates were ahead of their time and people did not appreciate it enough. Don't care what anyone says. We need gates to come back if we need to see any real challenge.
    Haha. I supported the gates upon 6.2 release when everyone was trashing them. 🤷🏻‍♂️
    I was actually very low on the ladder when 6.1 came out. I just barely became cavalier only because I heard Cav eq will come sooner. Man did that take time. I was not too fussed because I knew even with no gate, I would not have cleared that at that time.
  • Options
    Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Posts: 2,779 ★★★★★
    This content is challenging for me, but none of them so far have made me say “I could never solo this” I’m just lazy and once I can get over 50% off consistently, I just use expiring revives on the next 70%+ run.

    But of course I’m not in the top 1%. So if the summer of pain isn’t leaving me in pain, then they’ve clearly missed the mark on challenging those that have completed everything.
  • Options
    CorkscrewCorkscrew Posts: 539 ★★★
    OGAvenger said:


    But in my opinion it’s impossible to do that when every Cav player (seemingly) thinks they deserve everything TB players receive/earn.

    Which is an entitlement problem, not a progression problem.

    Progression is a spectrum, but for simplicity that spectrum is segmented. Obviously it's not a perfect system as a low end TB probably has more in common with a high end Cav than a high end TB.

    The top of the top are already catered to via Mythic and Legend titles. It tests roster and skill. It's clearly not something everyone can achieve and has rewards and recognition to match. We don't need another progression level at this point.

  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★
    walkerdog said:

    Pulyaman said:

    walkerdog said:

    xNig said:

    walkerdog said:

    xNig said:

    Chrisco66 said:

    I think Kabam have done well so far with SOP. As far as those end game whiny whales gotta realize not everything is always about u

    Ok, but what exactly is about me? Not asking for everything, but what is one thing?

    More specifically, when was the last time there was some genuinely challenging content that didn’t feel overhyped? I’ll give you a hint, most end game players will tell you (with no hint of a whine) that it was the Abyss, act 6 or the Maze. One of them was 18 months ago, one was 16 months ago and one was 2 and a half years ago.

    So how rare does end game content get before it’s actually ok to ask what about me? The way you say not everything is always about you implies that I am swimming with hard, challenging content that I feel is aimed at me. But when you take a look at the content being offered to me, well, it’s just not matching your narrative.
    Refer to my, and many other posts above.
    The previous pieces of content were "tough" because of our lack of real options. Now is not so.
    Times have changed, and restricting our roster is the only way to add real "toughness".
    abyss wasnt tough, it was just long.
    act6 currently with all the options is much easier.

    in the end, it is all about options. We have too many options, hence the whining about it being too easy.
    kabam has to run the fine line between making it far too restrictive and make fun objectives. I think they are hitting quite a good balance.
    Maybe going forward they add a piece of content with uninspiring rewards but very tough restrictions.

    Also, i argue that carina's challenges are end game content that is exactly what you asked for. I suggest doing those.
    So if we look back now, in retrospect. 6.2 gates were actually a good thing?
    Yep, I have always liked the 6.2 gates. It encourages roster depth, using different champions and ranking up new ones. Been a fan of them for ages
    The gates are terrible design bc they don't count 6* or allow 4*.
    No. It’s exactly that they don’t count 6*s that they’re wonderful. It puts people right at where their supposed progression should be in A6, 5*s at R4/5. No 6* R3/4/5s that steamroll through the defenders unlike earlier acts, then have those players complaining that content is too difficult simply because they’ve not built up the skill and knowledge to tackle them.
    But it also punished people for building up their roster into act 5. It was a pretty obvious money-grab, not a feature and to defend the specificity of it is pretty simple-minded.
    How is it a money grab?

    4* weren’t available in 6.1, so how does 6.2 punish you for making you use 5*, when you couldn’t use them already?
    One issue a lot of people faced was 6 stars did not count when the path was gated to use 4* 5 star champs. You may have a warlock as 6 star that you ranked up, but you cannot use him since you need 5 star champs. May be that is what OP meant.
    Perhaps, but I was going off the “punished people who built their roster into act 5”. So that implies 4*, if Walkerdog meant 6* then my apologies.

    Regardless, it doesn’t punish 6* either, as ranking and using 5* encourages roster depth, and 5* are plenty good for act 6.
    Its punishing bc you use your resources in the previous act to build your 4* and then have them taken away. Act 6 removing them as options was bogus and pretty obviously trying to force people into picking up new champs. You can't seriously pretend that wasn't a nearly-universally screamed at thing when act 6 was released. The gates just took it further.
    Theyd be closer to reasonable with act 7 and with 6* allowed too, but at the time of release of 6.2 many players didn't have 4 skill or mystic 5* worth using. In fact there barely were 4 skill champs worth using so players ended up having to heal/revive their 1-2 good skill/mystic to do the fights.
    Its less of an issue now except why on earth would people like something that punishes them for developing their roster of 4* that they used to get to act 6 and then also dings them if they prepare for the future with 6* rankups going thru act 6?

    The idea that it was "good" bc there weren't many people using 6* when it was released... so it would get BETTER in the future as people had more 6*? Also, there's no good or bad implicit value to "forcing players to develop their 5* roster" just because you like it.

    We've also seen that as an outlier who tends to finish content quickly, easily, and early, your viewpoints on what game design is good should literally be almost entirely ignored since it is a reflection of almost none of the playerbase. That stinks for you, but it seems to be the correct approach. Its like listening to an Olympian try to give input into casual workouts for average joes.

    That doesn't mean you can't give input but recognize if youre that fast and good, you're a major outlier and don't really participate in the experience that the larger playerbase has. Youre past it and to "catch up" you'd probably need to take a year off and then when u return onyk play while riding a bike or something.

    Act 6 gates were truly greedy and shortsighted design. Refusing to adjust it is a reflection of kabam's limitations as game makers, up there with leaving 6.2.5 mordo alone (that wasn't a nerf) and buffing 6.3.6 CAIW.
    I think you're mistaking what feels good in the moment, for what is actually good for the future of the game. 4* being unable to bring into act 6 felt bad in the moment, but it's much better for later on when you come to the 6.2 champion, or the grandmaster, and you've actually built up a good roster of 5*, rather than trying to take them down with your 5/50 4* Cap IW. It was mostly universally screamed bad for sure, but so was 12.0 at the time, and in the long run, that's probably one of the most important design decisions kabam made to introduce diminishing returns and nerf the dominating gods of the game. (perhaps a bit overnerfed now, but the point remains).

    Just because the majority doesn't like it, doesn't mean it's bad. And it doesn't mean that it's not good for the future. Humans have a hard time sometimes thinking about implications of the future, as we don't know whether something will turn out to be a good choice or a bad choice, as a result, they tend to think how does this feel now. 12.0 felt bad in that moment, but turned out to be a very good design choice. Gates and banning 4* felt bad in that moment, because why can I not use my hard earned champions everywhere I want? I ranked them up for nothing? But it has turned out to be a very important design choice because it has encouraged building deeper rosters, and encouraged bringing the right level of champion to content. I'd say it's the opposite of a cash grab, people would have spent more revives slogging through with their 4*, than using the intended power level of 4/55 5* or above.

    Developing a 5* roster was, and still is a hugely important part of the game. I still rank and use 5* with 11 6* R3. In many areas of the game they're as good as 6*, and in some they're better. Sigging up is easier for those champs that need it. Take summer of pain, I've completed 5 of the 6 summer of pain fights with a 5* for my first run. And that wasn't a conscious choice - it was simply me using my best counter. And I didn't have those counters as 6* coincidentally. You may write that off as a moot point, but really, it's because I've worked on the depth of my roster and I've ended up with lots of counters, some of them are 5*, and in the future, my depth of a 5* roster will benefit me again and again.

    It is so, immensely important to rank up more champions rather than less, but higher. What I mean by that is 10 rank 5 5* is better than 5 rank 3 6*. Because almost anything an r3 can handle, an r5 can too. Point me to any fight in the game and show me a fight that absolutely requires an r3, it's not there.

    So gates are good, because instead of ranking 5 top champions and blasting through everything, they make you sit and say, oh, I only have one mystic champion ranked up, I need 4. I'm gonna go rank Mojo, Magik and Sorcerer supreme to go along with my Dr Doom. And after that, any fight that Mojo, Magik or sorcerer can do, but Doom can't you are absolutely set for. Without gates, that player would blast through everything, get to the fight that Doom can't do and hit a roadblock and that, is the sort of player that we see on the forum complain that stuff is too hard.
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★
    edited July 2021
    walkerdog said:

    12.0 was good. Blocking 4* from act 6 was bad. Even if people couldn't use 4* effectively all thru act 6, like u say, especially vs bosses, cutting off those synergies was shady.

    The champs that youre listing in mystic didn't even exist (mojo and sorc supreme I mean) when 6.2 came out. They literally had classes where you'd struggle to name 5 that were exciting to rank up, and part of that is due to sig requirements to make the character good and synergies that people lacked 5* too. It was one of their worst choices.

    I'm not against rewarding people for fitting into constraints (like the buffs for 6* in act 6) but preventing them from even trying the content is lame.

    The example of not being able to Doom a path - thats letting a player try and fail, then assess if uts a champ issue, did the player play the fight wrong, did they understand the nodes, is that fight doable with Doom?

    But when u go "no lol u just can't bring anything but 1/6 of 1 rarity... well we will give you ONE extra outside of that class"... way too constraining.

    It feels similar to how some nodes make fights drag on forever like increased power gain - like yes eventually i can/will do this, but this isn't a fun experience at all when you narrow it down this much. I dont want very specific requirements on class gates and i dont want to dex specials 38 times each fight in a lane. I'm playing a game not doing my least-enjoyable part of my job so why do I hate this more?

    One thing I'll definitely agree with you about is synergies, I do really wish they'd been allowed in act 6. But I don't think kabam had the functionality back then to do it. Now, I think they could add a node that said 4* lose 100% attack and -100% ability accuracy, and you could bring them for synergies as you please.

    I was only using them as examples to make my point, but sure, lets go with champs released before june 2019. I'll list below the decent options that could be ranked up.

    Science- Torch, Thing, Wasp, Cap IW, Ghulk, Void, Quake, Rhulk, She Hulk, Luke Cage, Spider Gwen -> 11

    Skill- Ronin, Nick Fury, Night Thrasher, Aegon, Massacre, Killmonger, Task Master, Blade, Gwenpool, Hawkeye, Winter Soldier (KM Synergy) -> 11

    Mutant- Namor, Havok, Emma, Omega, Domino, Sabretooth, Archangel, Rogue -> 8

    Tech - Ghost, IMIW, Sentinel, Doc Oc, Sparky, Star Lord -> 6

    Cosmic- Cap Marvel Movie, VTD, Corvus, Proxima, Medusa, Angela, Hyperion, Kamala, Venom -> 9

    Mystic - Sym Supreme, Morningstar, hood, Voodoo, Ghost rider, magik, scarlet witch -> 7

    Not to mention secondary options like Mephisto, Black bolt (full synergy), Hela, Psylocke etc who can bring something to the table.

    And I can already here you say, well what if you don't have 3 or 4 options from all of those classes to rank up. In which case that's the point! It's encouraging roster depth, if you don't have 3 or 4 options of those champs above then you weren't the target for act 6.2, in which case you should focus on other options to increase your roster depth. There were about 150 champs in the game at that time, and I've listed 52 champs above. If you didnt have good options from each class, then you'd either had extremely bad luck missing on 1/3 odds over 100 times, or you'd opened too few 5* crystals - in which case, the gates did their job.



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    Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 7,272 ★★★★★
    I can’t wait to revisit this thread after the last SOP round goes live.
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★

    I can’t wait to revisit this thread after the last SOP round goes live.

    Like I said, I'd be happy to eat my words if it means we get some tough content. I've got no problem admitting I'm wrong
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★
    walkerdog said:

    walkerdog said:

    12.0 was good. Blocking 4* from act 6 was bad. Even if people couldn't use 4* effectively all thru act 6, like u say, especially vs bosses, cutting off those synergies was shady.

    The champs that youre listing in mystic didn't even exist (mojo and sorc supreme I mean) when 6.2 came out. They literally had classes where you'd struggle to name 5 that were exciting to rank up, and part of that is due to sig requirements to make the character good and synergies that people lacked 5* too. It was one of their worst choices.

    I'm not against rewarding people for fitting into constraints (like the buffs for 6* in act 6) but preventing them from even trying the content is lame.

    The example of not being able to Doom a path - thats letting a player try and fail, then assess if uts a champ issue, did the player play the fight wrong, did they understand the nodes, is that fight doable with Doom?

    But when u go "no lol u just can't bring anything but 1/6 of 1 rarity... well we will give you ONE extra outside of that class"... way too constraining.

    It feels similar to how some nodes make fights drag on forever like increased power gain - like yes eventually i can/will do this, but this isn't a fun experience at all when you narrow it down this much. I dont want very specific requirements on class gates and i dont want to dex specials 38 times each fight in a lane. I'm playing a game not doing my least-enjoyable part of my job so why do I hate this more?

    One thing I'll definitely agree with you about is synergies, I do really wish they'd been allowed in act 6. But I don't think kabam had the functionality back then to do it. Now, I think they could add a node that said 4* lose 100% attack and -100% ability accuracy, and you could bring them for synergies as you please.

    I was only using them as examples to make my point, but sure, lets go with champs released before june 2019. I'll list below the decent options that could be ranked up.

    Science- Torch, Thing, Wasp, Cap IW, Ghulk, Void, Quake, Rhulk, She Hulk, Luke Cage, Spider Gwen -> 11

    Skill- Ronin, Nick Fury, Night Thrasher, Aegon, Massacre, Killmonger, Task Master, Blade, Gwenpool, Hawkeye, Winter Soldier (KM Synergy) -> 11

    Mutant- Namor, Havok, Emma, Omega, Domino, Sabretooth, Archangel, Rogue -> 8

    Tech - Ghost, IMIW, Sentinel, Doc Oc, Sparky, Star Lord -> 6

    Cosmic- Cap Marvel Movie, VTD, Corvus, Proxima, Medusa, Angela, Hyperion, Kamala, Venom -> 9

    Mystic - Sym Supreme, Morningstar, hood, Voodoo, Ghost rider, magik, scarlet witch -> 7

    Not to mention secondary options like Mephisto, Black bolt (full synergy), Hela, Psylocke etc who can bring something to the table.

    And I can already here you say, well what if you don't have 3 or 4 options from all of those classes to rank up. In which case that's the point! It's encouraging roster depth, if you don't have 3 or 4 options of those champs above then you weren't the target for act 6.2, in which case you should focus on other options to increase your roster depth. There were about 150 champs in the game at that time, and I've listed 52 champs above. If you didnt have good options from each class, then you'd either had extremely bad luck missing on 1/3 odds over 100 times, or you'd opened too few 5* crystals - in which case, the gates did their job.



    The idea seemed to be that people would complain when it was too hard for most 4* (and even this is kind of bogus bc 4* Aegon, for example, would have been fine in a good bit of 6.1 at least) but people have raged about that decision ever since.
    People complained that their 4/55 5* couldn't do it, but sure, we can pretend they wouldn't complain about 4*
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    IKONIKON Posts: 1,345 ★★★★★

    I can’t wait to revisit this thread after the last SOP round goes live.

    Even if the last 3 rounds are blisteringly hard, the first 6 (2/3 of the event) aren't. At best you'll see the couple weeks in August of pain, not the summer of pain.
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