I mean when you look at Abyss and what that offers as permanent content I think the rewards are very comparable to SoP.
Keep in mind the Abyss rewards were substantially increased from their original design, specifically because they did not meet player expectations. The rewards were not bugged: they were set to what the developers felt was appropriate for that content. Because the player reaction was very strongly negative, and because the Abyss was a singularly unique piece of end game content, they altered the rewards. .
Dang I never knew that. Everybody complains about Kabam even though they do many things like this...
The pinnacle of endgame contest was The Maze and we will never see that magic ever again. Times were different then. Piloting was big, buying cheap items was a thing, and overall game knowledge was very low.
All tough fights because no one had all the tools. Proper counters were too new and too hard to get, so we used whatever **** we had.
Power control, incinerate immune, korg counter, imiw counter, emma counter, iceman counter, buff control counter for champion. Easy now but 5*s were hard to get, we had a few rank 5s at the most and they were probably Blade and Stark Spidey.
These days every endgamer knows what they're doing and has a fully ranked 5-man-team of EVERY TOOL. Back then we had one yellow number champ and then Blade, and almost no utility.
If we want content like The Maze again, Kabam has to force us to use non-optimal attackers. Start with major attacker bans and build content around that. SOP is a welcome change but we have all the tools.
Exactly. Endgame players have every tool available. Also, I believe all these players’ skill improved greatly since The Maze. I believe if these players would play The Maze again with their old roster, they will have a much easier time.
This is was an excellent read, and fully agreed. It's really not that SoP is too easy, it just was built up to be something it isn't.
Part of the issue to me, is the total lack of entry barrier. By having it cost 0 energy and only 1 fight, there is nothing preventing endless attempts.
Today for instance, I used Mojo. I think I tried about 6 times before I got the solo, but I never felt true disappointment at failure because it was not IF I could get the solo, it was just an inevitably of how many attempts it would take.
Compare this to the gaunlet, if you're even 1 fight past the first, there is a cost to failure, either redoing fights, or reviving.
Another comparison would be to the infinity war or end game thanos fights. I don't recall exactly how much, but a small energy cost of around 9, meant there was a cost to repeated attempts.
Fights can be way harder when you give the opportunity to for endless practice.
This is was an excellent read, and fully agreed. It's really not that SoP is too easy, it just was built up to be something it isn't.
Part of the issue to me, is the total lack of entry barrier. By having it cost 0 energy and only 1 fight, there is nothing preventing endless attempts.
Today for instance, I used Mojo. I think I tried about 6 times before I got the solo, but I never felt true disappointment at failure because it was not IF I could get the solo, it was just an inevitably of how many attempts it would take.
Compare this to the gaunlet, if you're even 1 fight past the first, there is a cost to failure, either redoing fights, or reviving.
Another comparison would be to the infinity war or end game thanos fights. I don't recall exactly how much, but a small energy cost of around 9, meant there was a cost to repeated attempts.
Fights can be way harder when you give the opportunity to for endless practice.
I was thinking that if they limited it to 1-3 entries a day it would be so much better.
This is was an excellent read, and fully agreed. It's really not that SoP is too easy, it just was built up to be something it isn't.
Part of the issue to me, is the total lack of entry barrier. By having it cost 0 energy and only 1 fight, there is nothing preventing endless attempts.
Today for instance, I used Mojo. I think I tried about 6 times before I got the solo, but I never felt true disappointment at failure because it was not IF I could get the solo, it was just an inevitably of how many attempts it would take.
Compare this to the gaunlet, if you're even 1 fight past the first, there is a cost to failure, either redoing fights, or reviving.
Another comparison would be to the infinity war or end game thanos fights. I don't recall exactly how much, but a small energy cost of around 9, meant there was a cost to repeated attempts.
Fights can be way harder when you give the opportunity to for endless practice.
I was thinking that if they limited it to 1-3 entries a day it would be so much better.
It depends. For me, limiting the entries would not change whether I got the point or not. It would change how many times I tried to get the solo. It would also mean instead of doing it in bursts like I do now, with most attempts taken on just a couple of days, I would have to spread them out over every day, which would not improve my enjoyment of the fights.
For some people it would apply more pressure in a fight that currently has no pressure, and that would make it more challenging (and fun). But for players like me, it would be a limitation that would make me enjoy the opportunity less, but make the actual overall rate of success in terms of rewards no different.
Seems to me like we need a new progression based title meant for the top of the top. The Thronebreaker title was nerfed before it ever released and now the difference between Cav and TB isn’t great enough. Too large a number of Cav players feel they should be TB despite a HUGE roster difference between day 1 TB’s and most Cav players.
But I agree for the most part that end game content advertised to be the hardest content yet should be permanent and be as difficult as advertised. And sorry Cavs, but should be locked to the top (in this case TB’s) as well. Throw all the challenges, attacked bans, insane champ restrictions, abyss style challenges, whatever it may be at TB’s. This way they get their challenge and the rest have something to push toward.
But in my opinion it’s impossible to do that when every Cav player (seemingly) thinks they deserve everything TB players receive/earn.
80/20 rule. Never gonna please everyone. I'm Not really bothered that the top 5% of end game players think it's too easy or that a good chunk of cav players find it too hard.
Personally, I Love the rewards. Fights aren't overkill but are generally challenging in the sense of the fight design towards specific counters or a play style (usually) and am glad I haven't been able to just quake my way through the majority of them. Have to think some on best options and then play nearly perfect if you want the solo. Considering this was meant for last year, and before TB was as obtainable as it is now (a year later), pretty sure it hit the mark for the time it was designed to originally be released And even though it's a year later, I absolutely love that T5CC is being made more available for sticking it out.
I applaud the event. Boo hoo to those it is too easy for. Unfortunately, you are at the top and if Kabam spent time catering specific ally to that smaller circle, the overall complaints from the other 95% of players would be far more. Why would Kabam dedicate so much time, money and effort to content that only targets a small percentage of the overall player base? They wouldn't. They're trying to make difficult content, but make it more engaging and entertaining than just using brute force punishment tactics.
Ok my Point my seem childish and bit off topic but it's related to this topic deeply. It's gonna be long one. If you want to disagree please then read whole first.
First of all, Players who have multiple r3 6 stars won't find this difficult. Don't get me wrong. To get to r3 6 star there several restrictions (probably post difficult or hard restrictions). So while reaching to that point players develop pretty good deep rosters in terms of 5 stars. Even with many or atleast good amount of r2 6 stars. So it's natural when old nodes comes in game in some new content people blast through it. Because they have experience to deal with counters readied from the past.
Secondly, a Taboo is been made in forums about a Player regarding their skill with Their exp level. Please before bashing out on me or disagreeing , Read whole point. Most of the time many of the members of the forums have repeatedly judged the Player's skill with their Exp level. Like someone getting Cav at level 50 isn't good thing while being UC for year or so Long at level 60 is Marvellous. So when there's new Sq releases or other temporary content releases , it have restrictions based upon title ( or meant to corresponding title) and exp level. As far I know Legendary is meant for Cavs. Now take example of Mutant island and next month's sq. Mutant island didn't had any restrictions while next month had exp level restrictions. Now here's the main point. There's a Loophole in this system. People who are UC at 60 level are allowed to go in but players with cav title below 55 exp level can't go in. Here I mean with legendary difficulty which meant for Cavs. Now people who weren't supposed to play it , play because one of the condition is met through exp level and complain. While player with right title can't go even try it due to exp level , cannot give his feedback. This seems casual but isn't. Because most of the time level 60 but with not right title just complain and whin about it. And Deva take their feedbacks. In long run it hurts. We have seen in past when people cried for difficulty too difficult for them but it was meant that much difficult initially , kabam changed it. It have impacted difficulty scaling and tuning in long run. Because people with right requirements are less heard as they are less at certain points while majority who don't met requirement at certain times dominates the opinion cuz they were allowed to taste the meat which in reality meant for them. Another classic example would be like that There were less TB compared to last year. People with Title TB are different from breakers of thorned in terms of roster, experience, attitude, and skill level. Now we bring content where initially it was meant to challenge BOT ( breaker of thrones) given that these guys must have deep rosters. But Content allows anyone above 60 exp level and title of Cav. But as we see in past UC if there are level 60 can take part too. Now for each title holder, content will give different vibes. Guess who will complain most and Feedbacks are taken in account. This the problem. In practical we have seen this in many SQs before or in any other content. This loophole is what causes the problem. SOP is another victim. It was meant for end game players ( TBs especially with deep rosters) but cav were also allowed to have taste. First 2 weeks were easy or moderate for TBs or end game players meanwhile cavs Still whinnied. And after that we have seen so called easy weeks. Now this type of feedback kills difficultly scaling for future too in any content.
Third and lost point. We have seen many buffs from last year or so. And some were literally insane ones. Mags, Colossus are best example. And this buffed champ had some new and unique abilities which counters what most of the champs don't do.
Now combine these all 3 and add with temporary teased content and then decide for yourself what will happen next.
Ok my Point my seem childish and bit off topic but it's related to this topic deeply. It's gonna be long one. If you want to disagree please then read whole first.
First of all, Players who have multiple r3 6 stars won't find this difficult. Don't get me wrong. To get to r3 6 star there several restrictions (probably post difficult or hard restrictions). So while reaching to that point players develop pretty good deep rosters in terms of 5 stars. Even with many or atleast good amount of r2 6 stars. So it's natural when old nodes comes in game in some new content people blast through it. Because they have experience to deal with counters readied from the past.
Secondly, a Taboo is been made in forums about a Player regarding their skill with Their exp level. Please before bashing out on me or disagreeing , Read whole point. Most of the time many of the members of the forums have repeatedly judged the Player's skill with their Exp level. Like someone getting Cav at level 50 isn't good thing while being UC for year or so Long at level 60 is Marvellous. So when there's new Sq releases or other temporary content releases , it have restrictions based upon title ( or meant to corresponding title) and exp level. As far I know Legendary is meant for Cavs. Now take example of Mutant island and next month's sq. Mutant island didn't had any restrictions while next month had exp level restrictions. Now here's the main point. There's a Loophole in this system. People who are UC at 60 level are allowed to go in but players with cav title below 55 exp level can't go in. Here I mean with legendary difficulty which meant for Cavs. Now people who weren't supposed to play it , play because one of the condition is met through exp level and complain. While player with right title can't go even try it due to exp level , cannot give his feedback. This seems casual but isn't. Because most of the time level 60 but with not right title just complain and whin about it. And Deva take their feedbacks. In long run it hurts. We have seen in past when people cried for difficulty too difficult for them but it was meant that much difficult initially , kabam changed it. It have impacted difficulty scaling and tuning in long run. Because people with right requirements are less heard as they are less at certain points while majority who don't met requirement at certain times dominates the opinion cuz they were allowed to taste the meat which in reality meant for them. Another classic example would be like that There were less TB compared to last year. People with Title TB are different from breakers of thorned in terms of roster, experience, attitude, and skill level. Now we bring content where initially it was meant to challenge BOT ( breaker of thrones) given that these guys must have deep rosters. But Content allows anyone above 60 exp level and title of Cav. But as we see in past UC if there are level 60 can take part too. Now for each title holder, content will give different vibes. Guess who will complain most and Feedbacks are taken in account. This the problem. In practical we have seen this in many SQs before or in any other content. This loophole is what causes the problem. SOP is another victim. It was meant for end game players ( TBs especially with deep rosters) but cav were also allowed to have taste. First 2 weeks were easy or moderate for TBs or end game players meanwhile cavs Still whinnied. And after that we have seen so called easy weeks. Now this type of feedback kills difficultly scaling for future too in any content.
Third and lost point. We have seen many buffs from last year or so. And some were literally insane ones. Mags, Colossus are best example. And this buffed champ had some new and unique abilities which counters what most of the champs don't do.
Now combine these all 3 and add with temporary teased content and then decide for yourself what will happen next.
Can you imagine. We already have had plenty of posts on how money grab and bs some of the boss fights where this is most likely the reason gauntlet and sop have been so easy, cause every time kabam actually release difficult content all hell breaks loose. So many people just want everything served right to them
Kind of like those who are demanding harder content? Funny how it goes both ways.
I appreciate new content and the awards that come with them. I also appreciate when it's not just designed for the very best 1-5% of players (or those that have been playing the longest or spent the most).
Those types of events just push the best even farther ahead and they'll just want harder content that others will never be able to "catch up to". And no, this game isn't a catch up game, but if you keep widening the gap for a small group, they'll keep wanting even more select content and more select rewards that makes it a haves vs. have nots situation.
Seems to me like we need a new progression based title meant for the top of the top.
One problem with that is that the absolute top of the top don't need a progression tier, because they've hit the progression ceiling. They can always use more stuff, but it would actually be counterproductive for the devs to make a special progression title exclusively for the players who are pressed up against the progress wall so hard that the only thing they can do that would be meaningful would be to flood them with an increasing amount of rewards until they have nowhere to go except to create a whole new progression ladder above them. And that's impractical because those players hit the wall faster than the game wants to make more walls, and because letting them get eight progression tiers above the average player has serious repercussions to the progress ladder in the rest of the game.
For one thing, the devs can't support an unlimited number of tiers. They're looking to simplify the ones they have now. If we let top tier progress players go up a rung, we'd have to eliminate a rung to accommodate that. And then another one after that, when the top tier players hit the new wall less than a year later.
(Accelerating players to UC might even be part of a long term plan to accommodate doing just that)
They honestly need them to slow down a bit, not speed up even more, if we're talking about managing the game as a whole.
Seems to me like we need a new progression based title meant for the top of the top.
One problem with that is that the absolute top of the top don't need a progression tier, because they've hit the progression ceiling.
They’ve hit the *current* progression ceiling. There’s always more progression to be had, and Kabam dug themselves a hole by nerfing the most recent title before they ever released it.
I’m not saying a title for the top 10 spenders in the game, but a title that follows more in line with what TB was originally supposed to be: somewhere in a more difficult Act 7 with team(s) of r3’s. If TB meant having 5+ rank 3’s then Kabam could do more to provide content specific to those who’ve reached that progression. With only needing 1 r3 every Cav player thinks they are on the brink of being TB and deserve to be treated as such.
Seems to me like we need a new progression based title meant for the top of the top.
One problem with that is that the absolute top of the top don't need a progression tier, because they've hit the progression ceiling.
They’ve hit the *current* progression ceiling. There’s always more progression to be had, and Kabam dug themselves a hole by nerfing the most recent title before they ever released it.
I’m not saying a title for the top 10 spenders in the game, but a title that follows more in line with what TB was originally supposed to be: somewhere in a more difficult Act 7 with team(s) of r3’s. If TB meant having 5+ rank 3’s then Kabam could do more to provide content specific to those who’ve reached that progression. With only needing 1 r3 every Cav player thinks they are on the brink of being TB and deserve to be treated as such.
To be clear I’m not suggesting this “new title” be having 5+ rank 3’s. We’re way past that now. I just meant if TB had originally been to have multiple rank 3’s instead of just 1
Ok my Point my seem childish and bit off topic but it's related to this topic deeply. It's gonna be long one. If you want to disagree please then read whole first.
First of all, Players who have multiple r3 6 stars won't find this difficult. Don't get me wrong. To get to r3 6 star there several restrictions (probably post difficult or hard restrictions). So while reaching to that point players develop pretty good deep rosters in terms of 5 stars. Even with many or atleast good amount of r2 6 stars. So it's natural when old nodes comes in game in some new content people blast through it. Because they have experience to deal with counters readied from the past.
Secondly, a Taboo is been made in forums about a Player regarding their skill with Their exp level. Please before bashing out on me or disagreeing , Read whole point. Most of the time many of the members of the forums have repeatedly judged the Player's skill with their Exp level. Like someone getting Cav at level 50 isn't good thing while being UC for year or so Long at level 60 is Marvellous. So when there's new Sq releases or other temporary content releases , it have restrictions based upon title ( or meant to corresponding title) and exp level. As far I know Legendary is meant for Cavs. Now take example of Mutant island and next month's sq. Mutant island didn't had any restrictions while next month had exp level restrictions. Now here's the main point. There's a Loophole in this system. People who are UC at 60 level are allowed to go in but players with cav title below 55 exp level can't go in. Here I mean with legendary difficulty which meant for Cavs. Now people who weren't supposed to play it , play because one of the condition is met through exp level and complain. While player with right title can't go even try it due to exp level , cannot give his feedback. This seems casual but isn't. Because most of the time level 60 but with not right title just complain and whin about it. And Deva take their feedbacks. In long run it hurts. We have seen in past when people cried for difficulty too difficult for them but it was meant that much difficult initially , kabam changed it. It have impacted difficulty scaling and tuning in long run. Because people with right requirements are less heard as they are less at certain points while majority who don't met requirement at certain times dominates the opinion cuz they were allowed to taste the meat which in reality meant for them. Another classic example would be like that There were less TB compared to last year. People with Title TB are different from breakers of thorned in terms of roster, experience, attitude, and skill level. Now we bring content where initially it was meant to challenge BOT ( breaker of thrones) given that these guys must have deep rosters. But Content allows anyone above 60 exp level and title of Cav. But as we see in past UC if there are level 60 can take part too. Now for each title holder, content will give different vibes. Guess who will complain most and Feedbacks are taken in account. This the problem. In practical we have seen this in many SQs before or in any other content. This loophole is what causes the problem. SOP is another victim. It was meant for end game players ( TBs especially with deep rosters) but cav were also allowed to have taste. First 2 weeks were easy or moderate for TBs or end game players meanwhile cavs Still whinnied. And after that we have seen so called easy weeks. Now this type of feedback kills difficultly scaling for future too in any content.
Third and lost point. We have seen many buffs from last year or so. And some were literally insane ones. Mags, Colossus are best example. And this buffed champ had some new and unique abilities which counters what most of the champs don't do.
Now combine these all 3 and add with temporary teased content and then decide for yourself what will happen next.
1. I think you missed his overall point that this content is not as difficult *as advertised*. They advertised it as hard. That should give them free reign to put the pain in SoP. That they did not is indeed a concern imo, and one that I think is worthy of a quality discussion. 2. I've made this point previously, but when content isn't open to players, they complain that they can't at least try it, even if it will cost them a ton in items and/or units. But then when they do have access, they think it's catered to them. I think you're right about this, but people need to learn they can't have it both ways or they will lose access to future events. 3. Points 1 and 3 that you made are basically a rehash of the argument that no content can ever be difficult for these guys. But they were mildly fine with acid wash mysterio I think. They would be happy to see the most annoying of node combination champion boss return. Kabam is holding back and you have lost imagination. These fights could be much harder and require the deepest of rosters and a lot more skill and endurance to beat.
Actually my point no 1 is about the how old nodes can be countered by deep roster. No matter the HP pools. What we need something new which we haven't seen yet
And yes you are right how people can't feel content hard but at same time majority of players find it hard and want an easy way out. Feedbacks are not heard properly from people for whom content was made as there's some loophole in past contents based upon titles and exp levels which is affecting now
To the original point of what can be done with temporary content versus permanent content, I’ve previously brought up the idea of some kind of seasonal content.
The gist of it would be some kind of ultra challenging EQ or Variant style quest setup. Six or nine quests, could be set up with rewards on paths and the paths are steadily more difficult (but not done all in one run, so Kabam could get brutal with any individual path without consideration for the others).
I’d also love to see a Big Boss at the end of this kind of seasonal content. A final quest that’s setup kinda like the SoP quests or the Infinity Thanos fights with a Big Bad Seasonal Boss that was just made to wipe the floor with the player. I’m talking fights like Grandmaster/Collector/Original Recipe 6.2.6 Champion. Because there’s no path, the boss can be extremely challenging. Could be a totally original challenge too, like a mashup champion or some other new characters (like Galactus?)
These quests would be live in game for three months or so. Long enough to rank whatever champions you may need to rank, but not necessarily long enough to wait around to pull the best possible counter. Then it would either rotate to another three month quest or take a break for three months while the Devs come up with the next one, whatever works. This is just an extremely rough outline of the idea, but I’d love to see it.
This is was an excellent read, and fully agreed. It's really not that SoP is too easy, it just was built up to be something it isn't.
Part of the issue to me, is the total lack of entry barrier. By having it cost 0 energy and only 1 fight, there is nothing preventing endless attempts.
Today for instance, I used Mojo. I think I tried about 6 times before I got the solo, but I never felt true disappointment at failure because it was not IF I could get the solo, it was just an inevitably of how many attempts it would take.
Compare this to the gaunlet, if you're even 1 fight past the first, there is a cost to failure, either redoing fights, or reviving.
Another comparison would be to the infinity war or end game thanos fights. I don't recall exactly how much, but a small energy cost of around 9, meant there was a cost to repeated attempts.
Fights can be way harder when you give the opportunity to for endless practice.
Exactly, if the hype for Summer of Pain had been more upfront about what it was, I would have definitely enjoyed it more without the pressure for it to be as difficult as advertised. As it is, I feel like I'm twiddling my thumbs waiting for it to get as hard as they said it would.
This is was an excellent read, and fully agreed. It's really not that SoP is too easy, it just was built up to be something it isn't.
Part of the issue to me, is the total lack of entry barrier. By having it cost 0 energy and only 1 fight, there is nothing preventing endless attempts.
Today for instance, I used Mojo. I think I tried about 6 times before I got the solo, but I never felt true disappointment at failure because it was not IF I could get the solo, it was just an inevitably of how many attempts it would take.
Compare this to the gaunlet, if you're even 1 fight past the first, there is a cost to failure, either redoing fights, or reviving.
Another comparison would be to the infinity war or end game thanos fights. I don't recall exactly how much, but a small energy cost of around 9, meant there was a cost to repeated attempts.
Fights can be way harder when you give the opportunity to for endless practice.
I was thinking that if they limited it to 1-3 entries a day it would be so much better.
It depends. For me, limiting the entries would not change whether I got the point or not. It would change how many times I tried to get the solo. It would also mean instead of doing it in bursts like I do now, with most attempts taken on just a couple of days, I would have to spread them out over every day, which would not improve my enjoyment of the fights.
For some people it would apply more pressure in a fight that currently has no pressure, and that would make it more challenging (and fun). But for players like me, it would be a limitation that would make me enjoy the opportunity less, but make the actual overall rate of success in terms of rewards no different.
Yeah this wouldn't solve the issue for me, all it would mean is I couldn't try a ton of different counters for fun, and that would mean I enjoyed it even less. As currently, that's actually the part of SoP that I'm really enjoying
At some point do players at your caliber of level realize that what you need is probably just to wait for the solo competitve mode to come out?
The day I admit that kabam probably won't ever add the non-competitive content in this game that I enjoy, will be shortly followed by the day I start to go to the place they call "Outside".
At the moment, all I really feel like challenges me in the game is AW which I love to play, but I don't want to rely on it, or a solo competitive mode for a challenge. I'd like to have a challenge in events, quests etc.
We already know from past riots that they can’t just release content that only 1% of players can do without using unitman. Take the announcement for what it was, florid speech.
So don’t worry, this is not a SoP is too easy it should be harder I’m a bored end game player post. I’m writing this post to share my feedback. It’s a long one, so while I appreciate anyone taking the time to read it, I’ve also done a TLDR at the end.
I think it’s safe to say that endgame players feel like Summer of Pain may not have hit the mark when it comes to what it was hyped as. Take a look at the text below from the announcement of SoP.
“As if the summer didn’t have enough, we’re designing a brand new challenge for the best of the best of MCoC Players. Something for those that have blasted through all of Act 6, beat the Abyss while on vacation, and treat Variants like a stroll along the beach. In response to these feats and to deliver challenges which will test your sanity, we’re working on something that may make you question life itself. The strongest, most fearsome, and finger breakingly difficult fights from across The Contest will return but with unique roster requirements, smaller teams, and new ways to play them."
Really think about the fights that we’ve been shown and ask yourself if that fits the description of what is above. I’d argue definitely not. The fights have been fun, they’ve tested which champ tags you’ve got ranked up. But ultimately, they aren’t finger breakingly difficult. And honestly, I would be ok with that if that’s what this was advertised as. But it’s been advertised as the hardest thing in the game, maybe ever.
So what’s the solution, and why is this post not just a “MaKE SumMER oF PaiN PaiNFuL KabOoM” post? I think the structure of summer of pain doesn’t really allow for the content to be as hard as it was advertised as. And that’s because it’s temporary.
I think there should be some really hard content like summer of pain that’s permanent. The potential issue with making hard content temporary is that people feel hard done by missing out. But by having it there whenever you want to tackle it, you can have a progression goal to aim for.
New interesting fights or quests that are genuinely painful but that you can get through and target when you’re ready, but that aren’t gonna go away if you can’t do it in time.
That way, kabam can really go wild with the difficulty. Because right now unless there’s a dramatic rise in how hard these fights are, I’ll view this event as decent, but ultimately mainly because of the rewards. In regards to the pain? More like summer of mild discomfort. I did enjoy the fights, but I’ve not really felt challenged, so that box hasn’t been ticked for me.
This isn’t so much of a complaint, as a grudging acceptance that this event, while being touted as the hardest event we would have ever had, is not what was advertised and I’ll take it for what it is, a weekly fun challenge to see which of my champs I can use to solo for fun this week.
To be clear with my feedback, I was hoping for something that I would open each week and spend a couple days trying different counters, struggling through until I finally cracked it. Not something that I open, take one look at a screenshot of the nodes and decide which 3 champions I can solo with to complete the objectives, go in one at a time, and only need to restart the fight if I make a mistake.
This event for me out of 10, in terms of fun is a 7. I enjoy doing the fights, and using different champs for the solo.
In terms of difficulty is a 4. I’ve not felt challenged apart from trying to get perfect runs, or trying to solo rogue with professor X (not the best champ for it). The fights themselves generally don’t have many layers of complexity, you’re usually presented with one challenge and have to solve that.
And honesty, all of this isn’t bad. I’ve actually enjoyed the event, especially as a challenge on my second account with a much shallower roster. But my mind is split in two, the disappointment from not getting the challenge that was promised to end game players is there too.
I think expecting kabam to make this temporary content as difficult as I imagined may have been a bit short sighted, and not in a bad way. I get wanting to involve a majority of the community, and making something so hard that 1% or less people are gonna complete is closer to a waste of time than kabam probably want it to be.
I think making end game permanent content solves these issues. Any cav who is currently finding SoP every bit the challenge that I and other end game players wanted, would be able to work towards it, while end game players (that 1%) will struggle through it and have their challenge. I mean just look at abyss, nowadays your average Cav, who at the start of abyss had 0 chance of making it through without a small fortune, is tackling it. And the rewards are still relevant. But the end game players enjoyed it when it was released. I imagine something similar with the next hard content to be released. Make it like that please!
Maybe I’ll eat my words if SoP gets a lot harder, and honestly I hope this ages like milk and I’ll be able to say thank god it picked up difficulty.
In any case, thanks for reading my opinion on SoP! I’ve tried to view it from both sides and be as objective as I can, so I hope that’s come through
TL:DR Summer of Pain isn’t as hard as expected, and that’s ok. I think that really hard content should be permanent, not temporary. As temporary content has limitations with how many players will actually end up playing it. But permanent content is, well, permanent and can be done at any point
i would understand and even agreed if this was written in 40 days or so, we are half way thru, still a warm up phase - the real challenge is yet to come.
I'd maybe agree if SoP hadn't started off tougher than it is now. Rogue and Mysterio were arguably harder than later fights. There was more talk on the forum and Line chats about how hard they were, and I personally had a harder time with those fights. Again, not that that's a bad thing. Just that it seems as though perhaps this is the level of difficulty that is likely to continue
For an average joe like me and I guess lots of others, this content has been fun and challenging, and lives up to the hype - would this be much bigger pool of players?
An event that lasts for 90 days cant be tailored to satisfy the minority only, there will be an element for everyone. e.g. rogue and mysterio for you, and darkhawk and adaptoid for me.
Well that's exactly what I'm saying, I'm not expecting a 90 day event to satisfy the minority. I'm saying permanent content fits that bill much better, that way players such as yourself could work towards it and complete it as and when you progress enough. That's literally the entire point of the game, to progress and get better and beat the next level. The other point of the game is to have fun. As it stands, I am not having as much fun because content released is not as difficult as I would like it to be, but I fully accept SoP shouldn't be as hard as I'd like, because it's temporary and not fair on those who can't complete it. However, if it were permanent, then nobody would have any leg to stand on with complaints, as you can always come back later when you have better counters and complete it then.
The minority vs majority argument works for temporary content, but it doesn't work for permanent content. As the majority who can't complete it right away eventually get there, like how you see current Cavs going for Abyss.
I know most see posts like this and think, uh damn end game players wanting everything aimed at them, everything is too easy blah blah blah. But literally all we are asking for is content we can really enjoy. Content that is not at any person's difficulty level will never be as enjoyable, and the last time I really felt challenged and thought wow I don't think I'll be able to do this right now, was in Abyss, and that was more about resources than difficulty. Why is it fine for players who have variants, act 7, Cav EQ to have all that content, and still get end game content aimed easy enough so they can still complete it? It's a huge challenge for them sure, but if they enjoy it then great - however, end game players should still feel like they have that sort of challenge in the game as well, and I don't feel like there's been that sort of challenge in the game for over 18 months. Gauntlet came close, but ultimately hasn't done it for me.
And all this isn't to say I don't enjoy the content full stop, it's just that I'd love to have my fill of tough, challenging content as well.
I’m fine with the level of difficulty. Good rewards.
Do you think it matches up to what was advertised?
Depends on the player. If they had made this painful for the super sweaties then most players wouldn’t be doing it. One player’s pain is another player’s faceroll.
IMO they should have made the objectives harder. Like get a point for solo’ing on your first try. Then it would have served a larger percentage of players in terms of difficulty.
Comments
Part of the issue to me, is the total lack of entry barrier. By having it cost 0 energy and only 1 fight, there is nothing preventing endless attempts.
Today for instance, I used Mojo. I think I tried about 6 times before I got the solo, but I never felt true disappointment at failure because it was not IF I could get the solo, it was just an inevitably of how many attempts it would take.
Compare this to the gaunlet, if you're even 1 fight past the first, there is a cost to failure, either redoing fights, or reviving.
Another comparison would be to the infinity war or end game thanos fights. I don't recall exactly how much, but a small energy cost of around 9, meant there was a cost to repeated attempts.
Fights can be way harder when you give the opportunity to for endless practice.
For some people it would apply more pressure in a fight that currently has no pressure, and that would make it more challenging (and fun). But for players like me, it would be a limitation that would make me enjoy the opportunity less, but make the actual overall rate of success in terms of rewards no different.
But I agree for the most part that end game content advertised to be the hardest content yet should be permanent and be as difficult as advertised. And sorry Cavs, but should be locked to the top (in this case TB’s) as well. Throw all the challenges, attacked bans, insane champ restrictions, abyss style challenges, whatever it may be at TB’s. This way they get their challenge and the rest have something to push toward.
But in my opinion it’s impossible to do that when every Cav player (seemingly) thinks they deserve everything TB players receive/earn.
Personally, I Love the rewards. Fights aren't overkill but are generally challenging in the sense of the fight design towards specific counters or a play style (usually) and am glad I haven't been able to just quake my way through the majority of them. Have to think some on best options and then play nearly perfect if you want the solo. Considering this was meant for last year, and before TB was as obtainable as it is now (a year later), pretty sure it hit the mark for the time it was designed to originally be released And even though it's a year later, I absolutely love that T5CC is being made more available for sticking it out.
I applaud the event. Boo hoo to those it is too easy for. Unfortunately, you are at the top and if Kabam spent time catering specific ally to that smaller circle, the overall complaints from the other 95% of players would be far more. Why would Kabam dedicate so much time, money and effort to content that only targets a small percentage of the overall player base? They wouldn't. They're trying to make difficult content, but make it more engaging and entertaining than just using brute force punishment tactics.
First of all, Players who have multiple r3 6 stars won't find this difficult. Don't get me wrong. To get to r3 6 star there several restrictions (probably post difficult or hard restrictions). So while reaching to that point players develop pretty good deep rosters in terms of 5 stars. Even with many or atleast good amount of r2 6 stars. So it's natural when old nodes comes in game in some new content people blast through it. Because they have experience to deal with counters readied from the past.
Secondly, a Taboo is been made in forums about a Player regarding their skill with Their exp level. Please before bashing out on me or disagreeing , Read whole point. Most of the time many of the members of the forums have repeatedly judged the Player's skill with their Exp level. Like someone getting Cav at level 50 isn't good thing while being UC for year or so Long at level 60 is Marvellous. So when there's new Sq releases or other temporary content releases , it have restrictions based upon title ( or meant to corresponding title) and exp level. As far I know Legendary is meant for Cavs. Now take example of Mutant island and next month's sq. Mutant island didn't had any restrictions while next month had exp level restrictions. Now here's the main point. There's a Loophole in this system. People who are UC at 60 level are allowed to go in but players with cav title below 55 exp level can't go in. Here I mean with legendary difficulty which meant for Cavs. Now people who weren't supposed to play it , play because one of the condition is met through exp level and complain. While player with right title can't go even try it due to exp level , cannot give his feedback. This seems casual but isn't. Because most of the time level 60 but with not right title just complain and whin about it. And Deva take their feedbacks. In long run it hurts. We have seen in past when people cried for difficulty too difficult for them but it was meant that much difficult initially , kabam changed it. It have impacted difficulty scaling and tuning in long run. Because people with right requirements are less heard as they are less at certain points while majority who don't met requirement at certain times dominates the opinion cuz they were allowed to taste the meat which in reality meant for them. Another classic example would be like that There were less TB compared to last year. People with Title TB are different from breakers of thorned in terms of roster, experience, attitude, and skill level. Now we bring content where initially it was meant to challenge BOT ( breaker of thrones) given that these guys must have deep rosters. But Content allows anyone above 60 exp level and title of Cav. But as we see in past UC if there are level 60 can take part too. Now for each title holder, content will give different vibes. Guess who will complain most and Feedbacks are taken in account. This the problem. In practical we have seen this in many SQs before or in any other content. This loophole is what causes the problem. SOP is another victim. It was meant for end game players ( TBs especially with deep rosters) but cav were also allowed to have taste. First 2 weeks were easy or moderate for TBs or end game players meanwhile cavs Still whinnied. And after that we have seen so called easy weeks. Now this type of feedback kills difficultly scaling for future too in any content.
Third and lost point. We have seen many buffs from last year or so. And some were literally insane ones. Mags, Colossus are best example. And this buffed champ had some new and unique abilities which counters what most of the champs don't do.
Now combine these all 3 and add with temporary teased content and then decide for yourself what will happen next.
I appreciate new content and the awards that come with them. I also appreciate when it's not just designed for the very best 1-5% of players (or those that have been playing the longest or spent the most).
Those types of events just push the best even farther ahead and they'll just want harder content that others will never be able to "catch up to". And no, this game isn't a catch up game, but if you keep widening the gap for a small group, they'll keep wanting even more select content and more select rewards that makes it a haves vs. have nots situation.
For one thing, the devs can't support an unlimited number of tiers. They're looking to simplify the ones they have now. If we let top tier progress players go up a rung, we'd have to eliminate a rung to accommodate that. And then another one after that, when the top tier players hit the new wall less than a year later.
(Accelerating players to UC might even be part of a long term plan to accommodate doing just that)
They honestly need them to slow down a bit, not speed up even more, if we're talking about managing the game as a whole.
I’m not saying a title for the top 10 spenders in the game, but a title that follows more in line with what TB was originally supposed to be: somewhere in a more difficult Act 7 with team(s) of r3’s. If TB meant having 5+ rank 3’s then Kabam could do more to provide content specific to those who’ve reached that progression. With only needing 1 r3 every Cav player thinks they are on the brink of being TB and deserve to be treated as such.
And yes you are right how people can't feel content hard but at same time majority of players find it hard and want an easy way out. Feedbacks are not heard properly from people for whom content was made as there's some loophole in past contents based upon titles and exp levels which is affecting now
The gist of it would be some kind of ultra challenging EQ or Variant style quest setup. Six or nine quests, could be set up with rewards on paths and the paths are steadily more difficult (but not done all in one run, so Kabam could get brutal with any individual path without consideration for the others).
I’d also love to see a Big Boss at the end of this kind of seasonal content. A final quest that’s setup kinda like the SoP quests or the Infinity Thanos fights with a Big Bad Seasonal Boss that was just made to wipe the floor with the player. I’m talking fights like Grandmaster/Collector/Original Recipe 6.2.6 Champion. Because there’s no path, the boss can be extremely challenging. Could be a totally original challenge too, like a mashup champion or some other new characters (like Galactus?)
These quests would be live in game for three months or so. Long enough to rank whatever champions you may need to rank, but not necessarily long enough to wait around to pull the best possible counter. Then it would either rotate to another three month quest or take a break for three months while the Devs come up with the next one, whatever works. This is just an extremely rough outline of the idea, but I’d love to see it.
At the moment, all I really feel like challenges me in the game is AW which I love to play, but I don't want to rely on it, or a solo competitive mode for a challenge. I'd like to have a challenge in events, quests etc.
Take the announcement for what it was, florid speech.
The minority vs majority argument works for temporary content, but it doesn't work for permanent content. As the majority who can't complete it right away eventually get there, like how you see current Cavs going for Abyss.
I know most see posts like this and think, uh damn end game players wanting everything aimed at them, everything is too easy blah blah blah. But literally all we are asking for is content we can really enjoy. Content that is not at any person's difficulty level will never be as enjoyable, and the last time I really felt challenged and thought wow I don't think I'll be able to do this right now, was in Abyss, and that was more about resources than difficulty. Why is it fine for players who have variants, act 7, Cav EQ to have all that content, and still get end game content aimed easy enough so they can still complete it? It's a huge challenge for them sure, but if they enjoy it then great - however, end game players should still feel like they have that sort of challenge in the game as well, and I don't feel like there's been that sort of challenge in the game for over 18 months. Gauntlet came close, but ultimately hasn't done it for me.
And all this isn't to say I don't enjoy the content full stop, it's just that I'd love to have my fill of tough, challenging content as well.
IMO they should have made the objectives harder. Like get a point for solo’ing on your first try. Then it would have served a larger percentage of players in terms of difficulty.