You can minimize it all you want but your opinion on it doesn't change its usefulness. You personally don't use an L3 in that instance. Doesn't mean people can't use it themselves. Which is more than she had before. At the very basic level, that's the point of these. More than they had. Not "the best" counter. Not what makes sense to your personal way of playing. More than they had before the adjustment. You can say it was so little it makes no difference TO YOU, but she still has more than she had before the adjustment. It just isn't as much as you want.
You can minimize it all you want but your opinion on it doesn't change its usefulness. You personally don't use an L3 in that instance. Doesn't mean people can't use it themselves. Which is more than she had before. At the very basic level, that's the point of these. More than they had. Not "the best" counter. Not what makes sense to your personal way of playing. More than they had before the adjustment. You can say it was so little it makes no difference TO YOU, but she still has more than she had before the adjustment. It just isn't as much as you want.
Have you ever used Stark Spidey as an evade counter?
Has anyone here ever used Stark spidey as an evade counter?
Do you know anyone who has used Stark spidey as an evade counter?
You can minimize it all you want but your opinion on it doesn't change its usefulness. You personally don't use an L3 in that instance. Doesn't mean people can't use it themselves. Which is more than she had before. At the very basic level, that's the point of these. More than they had. Not "the best" counter. Not what makes sense to your personal way of playing. More than they had before the adjustment. You can say it was so little it makes no difference TO YOU, but she still has more than she had before the adjustment. It just isn't as much as you want.
While Gamora’s buff now allows her to refresh her sp3 true strike, I would still argue that it just isn’t practical. Sure, she’s not the only champ to have a good piece of utility locked behind an sp3, but it doesn’t change the fact that in an evade matchup she’ll have to build to 3 bars of power, all the while trying to deal with evade effects until she can launch her sp3.
The same goes for her new miss counter mechanic. Her ability to gain buffs is still very RNG dependent, and since the duration has not been changed, then we know that keeping these buffs up will still be quite stressful. It also means that keeping her buffs up will be even more stressful in fights that impact her ability to launch and land heavy attacks. Since she needs to get and maintain at least 10 buffs in order to bypass miss effects, it’s going to take a while before she can actually counter miss effects.
While the buff has certainly added utility by giving her a miss counter and allowing her to extend the length of her true strike, both of these pieces of utility are not very practical at all. It’ll take quite a while in the fight before she can access either piece of utility, so she’ll have to deal with evade and miss effects on her own without a counter mechanic for quite a bit. I don’t expect for these buffs to skyrocket champs to the top tiers, or make them the best at what they do, but I do expect them to fix pre-existing issues with champs and make their abilities practical. Unfortunately this buff just doesn’t do either of those.
While the buffs are meant to give people with underdeveloped rosters new options for content, the only content I can see her being reliably used is in early game content where specific counters for certain abilities or matchups are not required.
You can minimize it all you want but your opinion on it doesn't change its usefulness. You personally don't use an L3 in that instance. Doesn't mean people can't use it themselves. Which is more than she had before. At the very basic level, that's the point of these. More than they had. Not "the best" counter. Not what makes sense to your personal way of playing. More than they had before the adjustment. You can say it was so little it makes no difference TO YOU, but she still has more than she had before the adjustment. It just isn't as much as you want.
While the buffs are meant to give people with underdeveloped rosters new options for content, the only content I can see her being reliably used is in early game content where specific counters for certain abilities or matchups are not required.
Lots of excellent points, just wanna focus on this and add something.
The point being here, that she is already only particularly used in early game content, and this buff not adding more to her for early end game content than a slight chance for buffs to proc means that she will continue to be used in early game content, and there may be a slight uptick in who uses her in early game content.
But you have to ask yourself why does Kabam put time and effort and money into designing and testing a champion buff who is going to result in little to no more use? Is that really worth it?
You can minimize it all you want but your opinion on it doesn't change its usefulness. You personally don't use an L3 in that instance. Doesn't mean people can't use it themselves. Which is more than she had before. At the very basic level, that's the point of these. More than they had. Not "the best" counter. Not what makes sense to your personal way of playing. More than they had before the adjustment. You can say it was so little it makes no difference TO YOU, but she still has more than she had before the adjustment. It just isn't as much as you want.
see your other comments are about how people should stop complaining about her buff. but you literally just stated the points on why people are complaining.
yes, she is improving. yes, she will be better than before.
no, she is not getting a lot better.
it would be much better to use the buff to make a horrible champ average rather than to make a bad-to-average champ just more average.
literally everything that she will be able to do, many other champions can do, and they do it better than her.
Who said the goal was to make her "great"? Also, as I said before, it has very little to do with making her better than others. I'm seriously over the subject. The expectations are just not in sync with reality.
Who said the goal was to make her "great"? Also, as I said before, it has very little to do with making her better than others. I'm seriously over the subject. The expectations are just not in sync with reality.
Are you reading comments that aren’t there? Because I’m not really seeing people say we want her to be great, or god tier. We want her mechanics to be useable in the way they’re intended. If Kabam put a miss counter, it’s bad design to lock it behind 75 hits. If Kabam make an evade counter it’s bad design to lock it behind an sp3.
Who’s comparing her to others at this point? We’re saying her miss counter is bad, full stop. Not bad compared to X. We’re saying her evade counter is bad. Not bad compared to Y.
You’re really showing your genuine disregard for other people’s points of view. There are many forum members that I have disagreed with, there are many that I still disagree with on some things. I still respect them and their view points. But there are none, that genuinely just refuse to listen to points that people make and instead jump to the same few phrases over and over.
Funny, I don't recall people complaining about Gamora before they buffed her.
"gamora could be great if she Can keep her buff like black bolt or x2 her durations.. it's so hard to play with her and kept buff" "Gamora's not the easiest champ to master in the whole game as her buffs fall off quite quickly" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/265289/gamora
"I hope Gamora gets an increase to her buff and armor break duration" "Any predictions? I see Gamora getting easier access to keep up buffs besides heavy." "she needs more practical utility instead of sp3's true strike" "I hope very much that she becomes more practical " "raise the duration of her cruelty, true strike, and fury buffs. Maybe even just make it so the fury and cruelty buffs fall off 1 at a time" "Gamora needs access to True Strike much easier" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1888807#Comment_1888807
"Gamora makes total sense for me. She has 0 utility except an 11 second true strike, she has a stressful playstyle for decent damage." (Referring to her march 2019 buff) "Well, Gamora sucks even post-buff, so she might be on par with KG and Venompool before their buffs." https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/276548/september-buffs
This is what I could find on the first few pages of searching just the forum. But yeah, nobody thought Gamora was lacking in utility or a good playstyle.
If you do enough searches, you can find people complain about anything here. You new?
"No one complained about Gamora, she was already decent to begin with."
*numerous examples of people complaining*
"UhM aCtUaLlY pEoPlE cOmPlAiN aBoUt EvErYtHiNg ThAt DoEsNt CoUnT"
"But...you said no one complains about her, and-"
"No YoUrE jUsT cOmPlAiNiNg fOr No ReAsOn StOp WhInInG REEEEEE"
See this? This is how we feel about you. That's how stupid your answers look like.
I'm talking about people complaining about the buff. It doesn't even make logical sense unless people are being poor sports. How is giving a Champ more ever a negative? I'm talking about the toxic dogging on every addition that isn't exactly what people want, or somehow novel. You have a game team that's already doing their best to improve Champs and keep up with the demands of people who are dissatisfied with Champions (blind to the fact that their worship of some Champs over others is what causes a great deal of that discontent), and now they've been slowed down because it's not enough. Now people are not satisfied with these changes. Every reaction shapes the time and effort they put into it, and when people complain for very little reason, it irks me.
Funny, I don't recall people complaining about Gamora before they buffed her.
"gamora could be great if she Can keep her buff like black bolt or x2 her durations.. it's so hard to play with her and kept buff" "Gamora's not the easiest champ to master in the whole game as her buffs fall off quite quickly" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/265289/gamora
"I hope Gamora gets an increase to her buff and armor break duration" "Any predictions? I see Gamora getting easier access to keep up buffs besides heavy." "she needs more practical utility instead of sp3's true strike" "I hope very much that she becomes more practical " "raise the duration of her cruelty, true strike, and fury buffs. Maybe even just make it so the fury and cruelty buffs fall off 1 at a time" "Gamora needs access to True Strike much easier" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1888807#Comment_1888807
"Gamora makes total sense for me. She has 0 utility except an 11 second true strike, she has a stressful playstyle for decent damage." (Referring to her march 2019 buff) "Well, Gamora sucks even post-buff, so she might be on par with KG and Venompool before their buffs." https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/276548/september-buffs
This is what I could find on the first few pages of searching just the forum. But yeah, nobody thought Gamora was lacking in utility or a good playstyle.
If you do enough searches, you can find people complain about anything here. You new?
"No one complained about Gamora, she was already decent to begin with."
*numerous examples of people complaining*
"UhM aCtUaLlY pEoPlE cOmPlAiN aBoUt EvErYtHiNg ThAt DoEsNt CoUnT"
"But...you said no one complains about her, and-"
"No YoUrE jUsT cOmPlAiNiNg fOr No ReAsOn StOp WhInInG REEEEEE"
See this? This is how we feel about you. That's how stupid your answers look like.
I'm talking about people complaining about the buff. It doesn't even make logical sense unless people are being poor sports. How is giving a Champ more ever a negative?
If you took drax and gave him 1% stronger furies. Would you say that’s giving a champion more so it’s not a negative?
I know I’m being extreme here but would you just humour me with a yes or no? This isn’t aimed as a gotcha or anything, just to understand your point of view more
Yes. They're not dedicated to it. The hours and months of work they've put into it were just for sport. People wonder why I say the complaining is needless.
@GroundedWisdom We’re voicing our opinions for the betterment of our community and positive future growth of the game. What you call needles complaining, we call constructive brainstorming. Hood would’ve been released without his fate seal reapplied to his kit if it wasn’t for our input/needless complaining. I would strongly disagree. Positive change comes with open minds and ideas.
That wasn't the same situation at all. They removed an aspect that people came to depend on. Nothing was removed here. They added benefit. The argument is it's "useless", which I don't agree with. The objections here are that the buff isn't dazzling enough to make people prefer her over others. So again, tell me how it's constructive to say the buff was useless?
Gamora is a lot better now than she used to be before her first buff. We should be grateful Kabam did an easy buff so they can focus more time into overhauling the game to fix the parry bug.
Gamora is a lot better now than she used to be before her first buff. We should be grateful Kabam did an easy buff so they can focus more time into overhauling the game to fix the parry bug.
Swap out lot for barely and I agree with you. The buff is still a very wasted opportunity.
Gamora is a lot better now than she used to be before her first buff. We should be grateful Kabam did an easy buff so they can focus more time into overhauling the game to fix the parry bug.
Swap out lot for barely and I agree with you. The buff is still a very wasted opportunity.
Did you play her before they buffed her the first time? I'm talking about the buff they did to her years ago. She sucked back then and became a LOT better with a lot better damage output.
Funny, I don't recall people complaining about Gamora before they buffed her.
Funny! you stopped playing mcoc and are still here lol. The point of the buff was actually pointless. She did not need it but if they still gave it to her then at least it should have been of some impact else why care at all?
Funny, I don't recall people complaining about Gamora before they buffed her.
"gamora could be great if she Can keep her buff like black bolt or x2 her durations.. it's so hard to play with her and kept buff" "Gamora's not the easiest champ to master in the whole game as her buffs fall off quite quickly" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/265289/gamora
"I hope Gamora gets an increase to her buff and armor break duration" "Any predictions? I see Gamora getting easier access to keep up buffs besides heavy." "she needs more practical utility instead of sp3's true strike" "I hope very much that she becomes more practical " "raise the duration of her cruelty, true strike, and fury buffs. Maybe even just make it so the fury and cruelty buffs fall off 1 at a time" "Gamora needs access to True Strike much easier" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1888807#Comment_1888807
"Gamora makes total sense for me. She has 0 utility except an 11 second true strike, she has a stressful playstyle for decent damage." (Referring to her march 2019 buff) "Well, Gamora sucks even post-buff, so she might be on par with KG and Venompool before their buffs." https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/276548/september-buffs
This is what I could find on the first few pages of searching just the forum. But yeah, nobody thought Gamora was lacking in utility or a good playstyle.
If you do enough searches, you can find people complain about anything here. You new?
"No one complained about Gamora, she was already decent to begin with."
*numerous examples of people complaining*
"UhM aCtUaLlY pEoPlE cOmPlAiN aBoUt EvErYtHiNg ThAt DoEsNt CoUnT"
"But...you said no one complains about her, and-"
"No YoUrE jUsT cOmPlAiNiNg fOr No ReAsOn StOp WhInInG REEEEEE"
See this? This is how we feel about you. That's how stupid your answers look like.
I'm talking about people complaining about the buff. It doesn't even make logical sense unless people are being poor sports. How is giving a Champ more ever a negative?
If you took drax and gave him 1% stronger furies. Would you say that’s giving a champion more so it’s not a negative?
I know I’m being extreme here but would you just humour me with a yes or no? This isn’t aimed as a gotcha or anything, just to understand your point of view more
@GroundedWisdom would you answer this please. I think it’s important to know where you stand on this so I can better explain our feelings around it.
@GroundedWisdom We’re voicing our opinions for the betterment of our community and positive future growth of the game. What you call needles complaining, we call constructive brainstorming. Hood would’ve been released without his fate seal reapplied to his kit if it wasn’t for our input/needless complaining. I would strongly disagree. Positive change comes with open minds and ideas.
That wasn't the same situation at all. They removed an aspect that people came to depend on. Nothing was removed here. They added benefit. The argument is it's "useless", which I don't agree with. The objections here are that the buff isn't dazzling enough to make people prefer her over others. So again, tell me how it's constructive to say the buff was useless?
You’re missing the point. Nobody is saying this is a Hood situation. Nobody is saying it’s useless, or if they are, then they mean it’s so close to nothing of value being added that the time is better spent elsewhere. You’re taking it too literally when someone says useless.
The point is that community feedback can change the game for the better. We gave feedback on hood and Kabam listened and changed it for the better.
Now, not to the same extent, but still similarly, we are giving our feedback on gamora and hopefully Kabam listen and change things for the better. I’m not expecting them to change gamora, but I’m hoping in the future we have fewer buffs that add very little of value to a champion.
So do you agree or disagree that community feedback can change Kabams mind?
Gamora is a lot better now than she used to be before her first buff. We should be grateful Kabam did an easy buff so they can focus more time into overhauling the game to fix the parry bug.
Swap out lot for barely and I agree with you. The buff is still a very wasted opportunity.
Did you play her before they buffed her the first time? I'm talking about the buff they did to her years ago. She sucked back then and became a LOT better with a lot better damage output.
Yeah I have, sorry I misread that. I was referring to the secondary buff she got.
@GroundedWisdom We’re voicing our opinions for the betterment of our community and positive future growth of the game. What you call needles complaining, we call constructive brainstorming. Hood would’ve been released without his fate seal reapplied to his kit if it wasn’t for our input/needless complaining. I would strongly disagree. Positive change comes with open minds and ideas.
That wasn't the same situation at all. They removed an aspect that people came to depend on. Nothing was removed here. They added benefit. The argument is it's "useless", which I don't agree with. The objections here are that the buff isn't dazzling enough to make people prefer her over others. So again, tell me how it's constructive to say the buff was useless?
You’re missing the point. Nobody is saying this is a Hood situation. Nobody is saying it’s useless, or if they are, then they mean it’s so close to nothing of value being added that the time is better spent elsewhere. You’re taking it too literally when someone says useless.
The point is that community feedback can change the game for the better. We gave feedback on hood and Kabam listened and changed it for the better.
Now, not to the same extent, but still similarly, we are giving our feedback on gamora and hopefully Kabam listen and change things for the better. I’m not expecting them to change gamora, but I’m hoping in the future we have fewer buffs that add very little of value to a champion.
So do you agree or disagree that community feedback can change Kabams mind?
I was responding to the comment that referenced Hood. You're trying too hard.
Funny, I don't recall people complaining about Gamora before they buffed her.
"gamora could be great if she Can keep her buff like black bolt or x2 her durations.. it's so hard to play with her and kept buff" "Gamora's not the easiest champ to master in the whole game as her buffs fall off quite quickly" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/265289/gamora
"I hope Gamora gets an increase to her buff and armor break duration" "Any predictions? I see Gamora getting easier access to keep up buffs besides heavy." "she needs more practical utility instead of sp3's true strike" "I hope very much that she becomes more practical " "raise the duration of her cruelty, true strike, and fury buffs. Maybe even just make it so the fury and cruelty buffs fall off 1 at a time" "Gamora needs access to True Strike much easier" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1888807#Comment_1888807
"Gamora makes total sense for me. She has 0 utility except an 11 second true strike, she has a stressful playstyle for decent damage." (Referring to her march 2019 buff) "Well, Gamora sucks even post-buff, so she might be on par with KG and Venompool before their buffs." https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/276548/september-buffs
This is what I could find on the first few pages of searching just the forum. But yeah, nobody thought Gamora was lacking in utility or a good playstyle.
If you do enough searches, you can find people complain about anything here. You new?
"No one complained about Gamora, she was already decent to begin with."
*numerous examples of people complaining*
"UhM aCtUaLlY pEoPlE cOmPlAiN aBoUt EvErYtHiNg ThAt DoEsNt CoUnT"
"But...you said no one complains about her, and-"
"No YoUrE jUsT cOmPlAiNiNg fOr No ReAsOn StOp WhInInG REEEEEE"
See this? This is how we feel about you. That's how stupid your answers look like.
I'm talking about people complaining about the buff. It doesn't even make logical sense unless people are being poor sports. How is giving a Champ more ever a negative?
If you took drax and gave him 1% stronger furies. Would you say that’s giving a champion more so it’s not a negative?
I know I’m being extreme here but would you just humour me with a yes or no? This isn’t aimed as a gotcha or anything, just to understand your point of view more
@GroundedWisdom would you answer this please. I think it’s important to know where you stand on this so I can better explain our feelings around it.
This will get deliberately ignored by @GroundedWisdom Can you please answer this?
Funny, I don't recall people complaining about Gamora before they buffed her.
"gamora could be great if she Can keep her buff like black bolt or x2 her durations.. it's so hard to play with her and kept buff" "Gamora's not the easiest champ to master in the whole game as her buffs fall off quite quickly" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/265289/gamora
"I hope Gamora gets an increase to her buff and armor break duration" "Any predictions? I see Gamora getting easier access to keep up buffs besides heavy." "she needs more practical utility instead of sp3's true strike" "I hope very much that she becomes more practical " "raise the duration of her cruelty, true strike, and fury buffs. Maybe even just make it so the fury and cruelty buffs fall off 1 at a time" "Gamora needs access to True Strike much easier" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1888807#Comment_1888807
"Gamora makes total sense for me. She has 0 utility except an 11 second true strike, she has a stressful playstyle for decent damage." (Referring to her march 2019 buff) "Well, Gamora sucks even post-buff, so she might be on par with KG and Venompool before their buffs." https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/276548/september-buffs
This is what I could find on the first few pages of searching just the forum. But yeah, nobody thought Gamora was lacking in utility or a good playstyle.
If you do enough searches, you can find people complain about anything here. You new?
"No one complained about Gamora, she was already decent to begin with."
*numerous examples of people complaining*
"UhM aCtUaLlY pEoPlE cOmPlAiN aBoUt EvErYtHiNg ThAt DoEsNt CoUnT"
"But...you said no one complains about her, and-"
"No YoUrE jUsT cOmPlAiNiNg fOr No ReAsOn StOp WhInInG REEEEEE"
See this? This is how we feel about you. That's how stupid your answers look like.
I'm talking about people complaining about the buff. It doesn't even make logical sense unless people are being poor sports. How is giving a Champ more ever a negative?
If you took drax and gave him 1% stronger furies. Would you say that’s giving a champion more so it’s not a negative?
I know I’m being extreme here but would you just humour me with a yes or no? This isn’t aimed as a gotcha or anything, just to understand your point of view more
@GroundedWisdom would you answer this please. I think it’s important to know where you stand on this so I can better explain our feelings around it.
In a technical sense, yes. 13% would be more than 12%. You don't need me to point that out.
Comments
Has anyone here ever used Stark spidey as an evade counter?
Do you know anyone who has used Stark spidey as an evade counter?
25% buff duration got all cosmic champs with Cap Infinity War. It’s…something I guess.
The same goes for her new miss counter mechanic. Her ability to gain buffs is still very RNG dependent, and since the duration has not been changed, then we know that keeping these buffs up will still be quite stressful. It also means that keeping her buffs up will be even more stressful in fights that impact her ability to launch and land heavy attacks. Since she needs to get and maintain at least 10 buffs in order to bypass miss effects, it’s going to take a while before she can actually counter miss effects.
While the buff has certainly added utility by giving her a miss counter and allowing her to extend the length of her true strike, both of these pieces of utility are not very practical at all. It’ll take quite a while in the fight before she can access either piece of utility, so she’ll have to deal with evade and miss effects on her own without a counter mechanic for quite a bit. I don’t expect for these buffs to skyrocket champs to the top tiers, or make them the best at what they do, but I do expect them to fix pre-existing issues with champs and make their abilities practical. Unfortunately this buff just doesn’t do either of those.
While the buffs are meant to give people with underdeveloped rosters new options for content, the only content I can see her being reliably used is in early game content where specific counters for certain abilities or matchups are not required.
The point being here, that she is already only particularly used in early game content, and this buff not adding more to her for early end game content than a slight chance for buffs to proc means that she will continue to be used in early game content, and there may be a slight uptick in who uses her in early game content.
But you have to ask yourself why does Kabam put time and effort and money into designing and testing a champion buff who is going to result in little to no more use? Is that really worth it?
yes, she is improving. yes, she will be better than before.
no, she is not getting a lot better.
it would be much better to use the buff to make a horrible champ average rather than to make a bad-to-average champ just more average.
literally everything that she will be able to do, many other champions can do, and they do it better than her.
Who’s comparing her to others at this point? We’re saying her miss counter is bad, full stop. Not bad compared to X. We’re saying her evade counter is bad. Not bad compared to Y.
You’re really showing your genuine disregard for other people’s points of view. There are many forum members that I have disagreed with, there are many that I still disagree with on some things. I still respect them and their view points. But there are none, that genuinely just refuse to listen to points that people make and instead jump to the same few phrases over and over.
You have a game team that's already doing their best to improve Champs and keep up with the demands of people who are dissatisfied with Champions (blind to the fact that their worship of some Champs over others is what causes a great deal of that discontent), and now they've been slowed down because it's not enough. Now people are not satisfied with these changes. Every reaction shapes the time and effort they put into it, and when people complain for very little reason, it irks me.
I know I’m being extreme here but would you just humour me with a yes or no? This isn’t aimed as a gotcha or anything, just to understand your point of view more
People wonder why I say the complaining is needless.
another everyone vs you know who
I do love the smell of forum in the afternoon
The point of the buff was actually pointless. She did not need it but if they still gave it to her then at least it should have been of some impact else why care at all?
The point is that community feedback can change the game for the better. We gave feedback on hood and Kabam listened and changed it for the better.
Now, not to the same extent, but still similarly, we are giving our feedback on gamora and hopefully Kabam listen and change things for the better. I’m not expecting them to change gamora, but I’m hoping in the future we have fewer buffs that add very little of value to a champion.
So do you agree or disagree that community feedback can change Kabams mind?
Can you please answer this?