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Guillotine, A community choice champ and nerf? Are u happy with this buff?

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Comments

  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    I think that perhaps there been a clash of interests here, and there's not an easy way out.

    Fans of Guillotine voted for her because they loved the character and her unique place in the Contest, wanted the buff to be the same plus a little extra utility or relevance to the wider contest. Players who have invested their hard earned and won rank up resources want to see their investment justified or at very least not undermined.

    Kabam decided to buff not just on what she was, but what they wanted her to be. As an Attacker, Defender, level of utility, for veterans and new players. They have their own set of criteria.

    Very often, the two things line up. In this case, and the original Hood buff, and a lesser extent the DDHK buff, they don't. And clearly from Kabam John's comments, there isn't going to be a rollback of significant change to the new Guillotine.

    Summoners are entitled to ask for RDT. Kabam are entitled to say no, because they don't like issuing RDT as the end result would be people would go and rank up someone else and not play Guillotine ever again. The effort would be largely wasted. But, people won't want to use her because they don't like the buff and feel negatively about the champion so that effort is wasted anyways.

    It's a bit of a pickle.
  • TheBoogyManTheBoogyMan Posts: 2,094 ★★★★★



    Her kit isn't a "homage" to her original kit. It's essentially the same, but everything she does is now worse. Her regen is constant now, but the amount is so minimal that it doesn't matter. If you have a 350,000k health opponent the most she will heal from a non-regen opponent is 7k health. Guillotine as a 6* r3 has 36137 base health. That's a 20% health which will barely be noticed because of chip damage you take from blocks.



    This response has absolutely nothing to do with the Guillotine rework and is absolutely irrelevant.



    So you see an uptick in people playing Guillotine the same month she's reworked? People always test newly reworked champions to see how they are. Saying that you've seen a huge uptick the same month of the rework is like saying fire is hot.



    I'm not really sure what the point of this response even was. I'd consider myself a high tier player and while I don't have her as a 6*, if I get her from this featured she's going to sit at rank 1 level 1 until I don't have other mystics to level up and have mystic ISO expiring. She offers nothing that I can't get from other mystics outside of the heal reversal and even that I wouldn't use a spot on her for. This isn't a "cool new toy" for us. It's a champ I'll never actually use.



    Absolutely irrelevant to Guillotine's buff.



    Another irrelevant post in a discussion about Guillotine's buff.



    While a beta server would be nice for reworks, this isn't really relevant to answering players concerns about Guillotine's rework.



    You've acknowledged her regen is subpar and are looking at changing that in the future so moving on.



    Here are the last three posts. None have anything to do with player concerns about Guillotine's rework. In total there were 11 responses to questions about Guillotine's rework. Only four of those actually addressed concerns. Only one said that you're going to adjust something based off concerns. When eight out of eleven posts don't address concerns about the champ you're actively discussing, you are better off not doing an AMA about that rework. It's insulting to the players.

    You gave us a "buff" that did nothing for the character. There are no fights in game currently that I can think of that she can do now that she couldn't do before. ROL Wolverine? I did it with a 3*. LOL X-23? Did it with a 4*. That's ultimately the problem with this buff. There's no where she excels that she didn't before.

    How I would fix her:

    1. Change her bleed chance to 35% off any basic attack. This way it isn't a chance off another chance. Bleeds would be more consistent as would critical bleeds with the Purgatory synergy. This would immediately up her damage potential.
    2. Leave her base regen at 2% of all damage, but have her regen go up to 4% when she is Unshackled.
    3. Give her critical hits a chance to nullify a buff.
    4. Change Pain Link to share all damage, not just non-physical.



    Totally agreed. I recently pulled guilly as a 5* but she's gonne be at R1 until she gets a proper buff that she deserves. I don't think kabam will give rank down tickets at all. So no hopes there.
  • RanunculusRanunculus Posts: 72
    AlexMilo said:


    We waited months for this buff and people were campaigning to vote for Guilly or Antman. The community was excited, and rightfully so.

    I wasn’t excited, not at all. I voted for Antman. When I saw the results I was very, very afraid of what would happen to Guilly.
  • Morpheus_123Morpheus_123 Posts: 792 ★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    I don’t expect to see any movement on Guillotine (except potentially her regen, as has been discussed), but this is really just gross.

    To be clear, I don’t think this was intentional. I don’t think anybody at Kabam sat down and said “Let’s make this champion worse.” One of the biggest takeaways (that seems to have been largely missed) is that there’s a grand total of one person who is fully dedicated to champion buffs. Kabam John helps too, but he seems to be all over the company, so he can’t be putting that much time into this.

    That’s wild to me. No wonder they dialed back the number of updates and why some of them have been so lackluster. That’s a ton of work for one person to do!! They have to come up with the idea, implement it, balance the numbers, reimplement, troubleshoot it, on and on it goes. Then do it again for the other champion that month. I’d hand in a Nova buff at that point too.

    I don’t blame the individual devs who worked on this because I’m sure they are overtaxed. I think the MCoC team may be a lot smaller than I’d previously believed, which is worrisome in a lot of ways and explains why so much seems to slip through the cracks.

    I hope this changes. I hope that the game team gets a proper allocation of resources and the help they need to make this game run smoothly and create champions we as a community can enjoy.

    I completely agree with your point about not placing any blame on individuals, but as a company/business, it seems completely wrong that ONE person is in total control of champion buffs. Basically, any champion that requires and is getting a buff, has flaws, or faults, or simply doesn't meet the requirements of the current game standards. So in that respect a 'think tank' is needed to decide what and how a champion can be changed.

    For a game of this size, that has lasted this long, and clearly has a very large number of active participants, I would have thought the basic ideas I have just mentioned wouldn't be necessary to say. Unfortunately, the Guillotine buff is just the tip of the ice berg of which beneath is an ever increasing array of in game issues and unlikable decisions which don't seem to be getting the necessary diligence before going live.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 1,709 ★★★★★

    Wicket329 said:

    I don’t expect to see any movement on Guillotine (except potentially her regen, as has been discussed), but this is really just gross.

    To be clear, I don’t think this was intentional. I don’t think anybody at Kabam sat down and said “Let’s make this champion worse.” One of the biggest takeaways (that seems to have been largely missed) is that there’s a grand total of one person who is fully dedicated to champion buffs. Kabam John helps too, but he seems to be all over the company, so he can’t be putting that much time into this.

    That’s wild to me. No wonder they dialed back the number of updates and why some of them have been so lackluster. That’s a ton of work for one person to do!! They have to come up with the idea, implement it, balance the numbers, reimplement, troubleshoot it, on and on it goes. Then do it again for the other champion that month. I’d hand in a Nova buff at that point too.

    I don’t blame the individual devs who worked on this because I’m sure they are overtaxed. I think the MCoC team may be a lot smaller than I’d previously believed, which is worrisome in a lot of ways and explains why so much seems to slip through the cracks.

    I hope this changes. I hope that the game team gets a proper allocation of resources and the help they need to make this game run smoothly and create champions we as a community can enjoy.

    I completely agree with your point about not placing any blame on individuals, but as a company/business, it seems completely wrong that ONE person is in total control of champion buffs. Basically, any champion that requires and is getting a buff, has flaws, or faults, or simply doesn't meet the requirements of the current game standards. So in that respect a 'think tank' is needed to decide what and how a champion can be changed.

    For a game of this size, that has lasted this long, and clearly has a very large number of active participants, I would have thought the basic ideas I have just mentioned wouldn't be necessary to say. Unfortunately, the Guillotine buff is just the tip of the ice berg of which beneath is an ever increasing array of in game issues and unlikable decisions which don't seem to be getting the necessary diligence before going live.
    It’s been said by several people in different threads, but honestly if Kabam were to post a thread saying “we’re planning a buff to Champion X. What do you currently like about this champion? What do you dislike? What would you like to see?” they would get an astronomical amount of feedback, and much of it would be either partially viable or inspire other ideas from the dev or devs who are working on it.

    If Kabam doesn’t want to open such a discussion to the whole community (which would be understandable because that would generate an overwhelming amount of feedback and probably entail its own issues), they could use a separate platform for these discussions. They could use their survey system if that’s easier. But it’s clear that there is no shortage of players who love this game, understand the balance of it, and would be willing to chip in some free labor to see the characters they love done properly.
  • Sal_84 said:

    All those things are merely speculations, the main problem is that Kabam is not communicating their struggles. Most of us work and understand that now more than ever companies are asking us to do more with less resources. If they were to tell us "guys, the buff did not come out as intended, give us some time to fix it, we will take your feedback into consideration", no one would complain, but what we are getting is "we are happy with the buff, we will just some minor updates to her regen" or "this is a homage to her previous kit" or simply avoiding the topic as they did in the AMA when the whole community has expressed their sentiments about this decision, with no validation whatsover from Kabam, is just not acceptable. What we need from Kabam is straight forward COMMUNICATION, we are their customers. Again if the final decision will be "we will keep her the way she is now", just send the rank down tickets and they can continue with whatever projects they have for the future, and we all just move on with a dissatisfaction feeling, but we all move forward.

    You say you want communication, but your example of communication is "guys, the buff did not come out as intended, give us some time to fix it, we will take your feedback into consideration." In other words, your definition of communication is "admit you're wrong." That's problematic, because they don't believe they are wrong, and saying the first step to better communications is to admit you're wrong wouldn't work on me, wouldn't work on you, and won't work with them either.

    Communication is not about one side admitting their wrong while the other side talks. Communication is about the free exchange of ideas. Somewhere in there you hope that the free exchange of ideas gets people to think beyond their experience, and that sometimes causes people to learn something new. But you can't get there in one jump.

    You don't change people's minds by getting them to admit they are wrong. You get them to change their minds by surrounding them with your best ideas, and hope that they recognize on their own that some of them are better than the ones they had.
  • DNA3000 said:

    Sal_84 said:

    All those things are merely speculations, the main problem is that Kabam is not communicating their struggles. Most of us work and understand that now more than ever companies are asking us to do more with less resources. If they were to tell us "guys, the buff did not come out as intended, give us some time to fix it, we will take your feedback into consideration", no one would complain, but what we are getting is "we are happy with the buff, we will just some minor updates to her regen" or "this is a homage to her previous kit" or simply avoiding the topic as they did in the AMA when the whole community has expressed their sentiments about this decision, with no validation whatsover from Kabam, is just not acceptable. What we need from Kabam is straight forward COMMUNICATION, we are their customers. Again if the final decision will be "we will keep her the way she is now", just send the rank down tickets and they can continue with whatever projects they have for the future, and we all just move on with a dissatisfaction feeling, but we all move forward.

    You say you want communication, but your example of communication is "guys, the buff did not come out as intended, give us some time to fix it, we will take your feedback into consideration." In other words, your definition of communication is "admit you're wrong." That's problematic, because they don't believe they are wrong, and saying the first step to better communications is to admit you're wrong wouldn't work on me, wouldn't work on you, and won't work with them either.

    Communication is not about one side admitting their wrong while the other side talks. Communication is about the free exchange of ideas. Somewhere in there you hope that the free exchange of ideas gets people to think beyond their experience, and that sometimes causes people to learn something new. But you can't get there in one jump.

    You don't change people's minds by getting them to admit they are wrong. You get them to change their minds by surrounding them with your best ideas, and hope that they recognize on their own that some of them are better than the ones they had.
    but i think they should admit that they are wrong about guilly buff. i can agree with whatever you said but cant stand the fact they ignored us
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