Really not happy, I know top of the top people need something new but I thought relics were that thing but having to grind for relics and then 7* looks like not so good prospects for FTP and casual spenders.
Relics were never a replacement for a new Rarity. They couldn't be. The same argument came when 6*s were introduced, and scores of F2P people have extensive 6* Rosters now.
It should have been.
With Relics and Ascension (Limit Break) it w Should have been and alternative to 7* rather than doing the same dance again on different tunes.
Need more creativity then just adding a star and asking people to do the same thing all over again.
Bring in costumes and skins , Relics were a good alternative they could have also introduced Transendent feature where 6* sig 200 champs can be converted to 7* with some items which then can be monetized.
Eg: Sig 200 6* Convus can consume cosmic transcend gem to become sig 1 cosmic 7*.
Never ceases to amaze me how often people forget that this game is first and foremost a business product. As much as they are constantly looking for ways to improve player engagement they are looking for ways to make money.
Really not happy, I know top of the top people need something new but I thought relics were that thing but having to grind for relics and then 7* looks like not so good prospects for FTP and casual spenders.
Relics were never a replacement for a new Rarity. They couldn't be. The same argument came when 6*s were introduced, and scores of F2P people have extensive 6* Rosters now.
It should have been.
With Relics and Ascension (Limit Break) it w Should have been and alternative to 7* rather than doing the same dance again on different tunes.
Need more creativity then just adding a star and asking people to do the same thing all over again.
Bring in costumes and skins , Relics were a good alternative they could have also introduced Transendent feature where 6* sig 200 champs can be converted to 7* with some items which then can be monetized.
Eg: Sig 200 6* Convus can consume cosmic transcend gem to become sig 1 cosmic 7*.
Never ceases to amaze me how often people forget that this game is first and foremost a business product. As much as they are constantly looking for ways to improve player engagement they are looking for ways to make money.
It's unfortunately the case with a lot of communities, you can't just look at things exclusively from a player benefit standpoint, you HAVE TO look at it from all angles, especially from the business side of it, which means that this is the best possible outcome they felt is going to help generate income.
I don't mind 7*s but if you are doing this, please drop 3* champs from the Cavalier crystals. There is now a greater need for resources and gold which you are not getting from 3* champs.
it was bound to happen. I’ll grind for my first 7* just for fun and then retire. I’m just at that point in my life where I want to focus on other things. I understand the motivation for introducing 7*, but it does feel a bit unsustainable in the long run.
Kabam really said, "it's reset time!". How long will this cycle keep going? Until we reach 50*? 6r4 can clear the whole content with no problem. It will took forever to build 7* roster. Waste of time.
I think it would be good if instead of that Ascension thing, after you max out a 6* champ you'll have the option to Evolve them, it'll be like a regular rank up but it'll be hard to get of course, and this will "comvert" your 6* r5 champ into a 7* rank 1 champ. I mean, why not? That way your 6* champs can truly progress and you wont have to do the same process to the same champ and get him all over again... 7 stars will be obtainable from crystals, but also you will be able to evolve as I said a maxed 6* into a 7* r1 champ and just continue with the same champion... Thoughts?
I think you don't understand why new rarities exist. The whole point to introducing a new rarity is: you don't have them yet. Allowing players to simply upgrade their existing 6* champs into full-fledged 7* champs would make 7* rarity pointless.
Ascension is in a sense the converse of rank overlap. When you pull a new 6* champ, it isn't necessarily more powerful than your 5* champs. Ignoring things like sigs and combat power, your 6* champ doesn't really become more powerful than your max 5* champs until you rank them to at least R2, and really R3. But *eventually* the 6* champs pull ahead, because your 5* champs are stuck at 5/65 (CR120) while 6* champs can go all the way up to R5 (CR150). Eventually, but this takes time and resources, and the resources required are gated initially. Ascension does a bit of the opposite, allows a 5/65 to jump up a little more, adding additional life to those 6* champs you have before you pull them as 7* rarity. But again, eventually the 7* champs will pull away. The time during which the rarities overlap, either by explicit rank overlap or by Ascension mechanics, are the window of time during which the transition from 5* to 6*, or 6* to 7* can happen less abruptly.
But you're *supposed* to eventually chase after the next rarity. That's why it exists. Fundamentally, that's the only reason they exist. Kabam is not going to allow you to "evolve" your existing 6* champs into 7* champs, because that eliminates the need to chase 7* champs, and that's the only reason to make 7* champs. We can't have the best way to acquire a 7* champ be: chase the 6* version then evolve it. Because as 7* champs get introduced, the ability to acquire 6* champs will get easier and easier. It will soon be as easy to catch a specific 6* champ as it is now to get a specific 5* champ.
Its about timing. The timing is the only reason people complain in my opinion. Next year would be a blast and people would love it.
I'm skeptical that is true, but even if it is true, new rarities are added when new rarities become required, and that happens when the game management people says it does. The developers have a lot of discretion over the how, but not over the when.
How precisely this happens here is not something I'm privy to, but in every game where I am privy to it, this is primarily a data driven decision, not a judgment driven decision. Someone doesn't say they feel like it is time. Someone says according to this data, it is projected to have to happen within the next twelve months, and then the developers make it happen.
And those people making that decision rarely read game forums.
Really not happy, I know top of the top people need something new but I thought relics were that thing but having to grind for relics and then 7* looks like not so good prospects for FTP and casual spenders.
Relics were never a replacement for a new Rarity. They couldn't be. The same argument came when 6*s were introduced, and scores of F2P people have extensive 6* Rosters now.
It should have been.
With Relics and Ascension (Limit Break) it w Should have been and alternative to 7* rather than doing the same dance again on different tunes.
Need more creativity then just adding a star and asking people to do the same thing all over again.
Bring in costumes and skins , Relics were a good alternative they could have also introduced Transendent feature where 6* sig 200 champs can be converted to 7* with some items which then can be monetized.
Eg: Sig 200 6* Convus can consume cosmic transcend gem to become sig 1 cosmic 7*.
Never ceases to amaze me how often people forget that this game is first and foremost a business product. As much as they are constantly looking for ways to improve player engagement they are looking for ways to make money.
It's unfortunately the case with a lot of communities, you can't just look at things exclusively from a player benefit standpoint, you HAVE TO look at it from all angles, especially from the business side of it, which means that this is the best possible outcome they felt is going to help generate income.
There's a lot more to it than that. In every conversation I've had with game developers on or around this topic (progression systems) revenue was just one component, and not always the most important one. Long term stability of the game was the most important issue. There are dynamic forces at work in progression games that, to quote the Architect, lead to an escalating probability of failure. Those imbalances have to be addressed, and in our game roster reset is the way those imbalances are addressed.
If they don't do this, yes they will be making less money over time, but not for the reason people think. It won't be because they will run out of things to sell. It will be because they run out of people to sell them to. Most of the players playing today, including most of the spenders, were not here eight years ago, or seven years ago, or even five years ago. The player base keeps turning over. People leave, people join. Without roster resets, fewer and fewer players would join. But it is unlikely everyone else would stay, because most players don't leave because of roster resets. So eventually, you have a dead game.
There are a lot of people who think this isn't the case, but game developers don't believe this because they all decided to guess. They know this because they have several decades of online gaming history to learn from, and player retention data most of us don't ever get a look at. So you can't convince them otherwise.
there isn’t even content difficult enough for rank 4 six stars, and rank fives aren’t even achievable in the game yet. So why the hell are they adding seven stars now?
It's disappointing to think time, energy, and development resources are going toward 7*s when there are significant input and dex/parry issues still to resolve. Why not resolve those first and get a more playable game before introducing yet another level? Or better yet develop/improve internal beta testing of any new features before rolling out to prod?
As someone still trying to find 6*s and grow that roster, I won't be spending any time on 7*s
I've been playing since the beginning so i saw the change from 4 star to 5 then to 6 stars and to be honest i think 7 stars should be fine, by the time 7 stars are really needed 6 star shards will be really easy to get....im more worried about the ascension mechanics
Just me, personally, but when they do come out, I'm hanging it up. The news alone, gives me no real incentive to push for 6* R5s or spend anything towards more on Black Friday or Christmas if they're just going to be overshadowed by 7* soon after. I just got Paragon and my 4th R4 from 8.1 exploration shortly after. A fifth will be a long in short order after EOP and a little bit more time.
But, with this news, I don't really have a motivation to roster build 6*s if R5s if 7*'s are just around the corner and are going to reset the roster building race again.
In the grand scheme, it's been 6+ years and it's been fun. But, I do not see it being fun, FOR ME, to repeat the collection all over again, yet another time - especially when I know the 1st dozen of champs I'd get, will likely be Beast and IronMan or someone along that calibur.
It is what is, but I'm going to be happy to call it quits, cold turkey, once and for all, knowing that the game is destined to just reset and repeat itself, once again.
For those that want to keep doing it, kudos to you. FOR ME though, I'm just coming to a personal realization that I can only swipe and tap, with the same champs, sporting a new star, for so long.
Oddly enough, this is exactly what I needed to hear to break me away from the game without having any feelings of remorse... which, if im really being honest, has been my primary driver for awhile now.
You dont like it don’t play, peace. you whiners won’t be missed. Ppl whined about quitting when 6* were introduced and the game did just fine. Funny thing about it most those crybabies stfu and didn’t go any where when 6* came, which they’ll do again this go around
I hope the initial 7* pool is well thought out and they don’t just do the lazy option of copying over the current basic pools as they are. I really think it would be a good idea to retire the buff program and just focus on making really well thought out new champions. In doing so let some of the awful champions (Kamala, Groot, electro, etc etc) have their rarity end at 6*
I get that part of the grind is getting the good with the bad but it will not be game destroying to allow people to have a decent champion with a chance of an amazing/god tier.
Some of us are still trying to build a decent 6* roster, introducing 7* is another door I'm not interest in opening up.
You do realize that it's not a race? It's a game you should enjoy and play at you own pace. You are not forced to go for 7*, this is 6* story all over again.. and everybody is happy with them now.
It’s quite funny cause I was just talking to my alliance and commented that we were running out of space on the champ display pics. Totally forgot that there’s space ABOVE the head. 😂
So the future of the contest is just a case of "Roster Reset" by adding 7*, increased healthpool and attack values?
Aside from that nothing will differ again from 7* and 6*? Not to mention, not all 5* have an equivalent 6* yet.
How about content? There is no content yet that actually stretches our current 6* roster the way act 6 did. No real difficulty in story yet. There are lots of champions that just sits in people's roster still with no relevance at all.
Like what I said on the main post on this, I would rather welcome the arrival of "wish crystals" that will get me my missing champs (not just 6* but from 1* upwards) I would also prefer content like another variant that would allow us to use our lower rarities.
Just me, personally, but when they do come out, I'm hanging it up. The news alone, gives me no real incentive to push for 6* R5s or spend anything towards more on Black Friday or Christmas if they're just going to be overshadowed by 7* soon after. I just got Paragon and my 4th R4 from 8.1 exploration shortly after. A fifth will be a long in short order after EOP and a little bit more time.
But, with this news, I don't really have a motivation to roster build 6*s if R5s if 7*'s are just around the corner and are going to reset the roster building race again.
In the grand scheme, it's been 6+ years and it's been fun. But, I do not see it being fun, FOR ME, to repeat the collection all over again, yet another time - especially when I know the 1st dozen of champs I'd get, will likely be Beast and IronMan or someone along that calibur.
It is what is, but I'm going to be happy to call it quits, cold turkey, once and for all, knowing that the game is destined to just reset and repeat itself, once again.
For those that want to keep doing it, kudos to you. FOR ME though, I'm just coming to a personal realization that I can only swipe and tap, with the same champs, sporting a new star, for so long.
Oddly enough, this is exactly what I needed to hear to break me away from the game without having any feelings of remorse... which, if im really being honest, has been my primary driver for awhile now.
I think a lot of people will be feeling like this. I’ve been pretty depressed about the game since the 7-star announcement. Especially after the Battlegrounds reward debacle.
I was really hoping that relics or another way of upgrading champs would be the future, not just another reset. I can see that ascension etc seem to be aimed in this direction but let’s be honest, no-one is going to be enthused about any form of 6-star as soon as the 7-star version is available).
I think that absolute judgments are announced here in the forum too quickly. It doesn't matter whether a champ's buff is released or, like here, game changes, some people immediately know exactly what it's all going to be like - without even having played with the champ for a second or without even knowing the exact concept of the game change in detail. I would like to see the whole scope first, test it myself and see how it behaves in reality. After that I can say if I like it or if I see it as the downfall of the game. But all extreme positions are inappropriate at this stage. At that stage, I take note of the information, I'm slightly skeptical as to whether it all works and I'm also slightly looking forward to what might be exciting to come. And the rest will show when I can test it myself
The power creep is a joke. You spend to keep up, and it just keeps creeping. Don’t spend, and you’ll be left in the dust. Everyone is trying so hard to grow their 6* roster and signature levels, and 7* comes along and makes it all obsolete within the year. 5* is the new 4*, then it will be 6* that are old news. Just don’t buy anything, ever.
They’ll be on the way soon after the 7*. Video games only survive by moving the progress bar. Free-to-play would probably be a lot more satisfying for players if this is all it’s ever going to be.
Hey Kabam, Regarding the recent news of 7 stars being added to the game, please reconsider this decision. a vast majority of your player base will leave the game if this happens and frankly, regardless of what others think, I don’t want this game to die. If you choose to pursue this path no matter the potential benefits, your game will suffer exponentially in the coming months. I understand that your corporation needs to make money, but we as a player base just aren’t ready for 7 stars yet. your trying to make the game more enjoyable but this is not the way to do it. Fix battlegrounds, get bugs under control, create a fair ranked progression that is tailored to only benefit the summoner advancing in the contest (extra free rewards for advancement) , and keep this game alive.
Regards, A Concerned Summoner
When you say "vast majority" are we talking like 65%, or more like 90%? I think the game economy designers want to model this change and need a number to put into their playerbase simulations. When I think "vast" I tend to think more towards 85%-99%, but even 65% could be considered vast in absolute terms.
On a personal level, I would like to know if my alliance is going to end up in the top 1000, or the top 100 AQ At 65% I might also want to resume competitive war, if Platinum empties out enough. At 65%, probably not, but at 95% or higher, I think it might be worth it.
Wait....I thought the PB changes were....no, 12.0 was....no, War changes were....no 6*s were....no Gated content was....wait...
I dont understand comments like this. Rome wasnt built in 1 day but rome also didnt collapse because of one day. Its always multiple issues that take something down. You realize with each of those changes the community got smaller and kabams profits decreased. One of the main reasons this thread isn't 30 pages long like when 6 stars were announced and all those other things you have referenced is that alot of people have ALREADY left. I personally know way more people who have quit the game than who currently still play the game. I would assume many people are in the same boat. Every change is incremental. But you eventually get to a point where enough people have had enough and the thing comes crashing down. I don't know if this will be the event but eventually it will end after enough hits.
People leave, people come, the game goes on. The idea that the game will end has been thrown out at every major change, and the game goes on. It's the most common objection to anything people don't want to see. I've even pointed it out myself, albeit backed up with my own views of what the game needs to grow long-term. The bottom line is, without something that facilitates longevity, which won't come from extra customizations or a few extra Ranks, the game really won't survive. The game itself is built on the acquisition and Ranking of Champions in increasing Rarities. Those added Rarities are what ensure it will continue. Not acquiring all the Champs we need, and building onto them. It's literally the foundation this game has been built on. Content follows the Champs, not the other way around. Well, to be precise it's a co-creation, but without new Rarities to grow into, the content will hit a wall.
Wait....I thought the PB changes were....no, 12.0 was....no, War changes were....no 6*s were....no Gated content was....wait...
I dont understand comments like this. Rome wasnt built in 1 day but rome also didnt collapse because of one day. Its always multiple issues that take something down. You realize with each of those changes the community got smaller and kabams profits decreased. One of the main reasons this thread isn't 30 pages long like when 6 stars were announced and all those other things you have referenced is that alot of people have ALREADY left. I personally know way more people who have quit the game than who currently still play the game. I would assume many people are in the same boat. Every change is incremental. But you eventually get to a point where enough people have had enough and the thing comes crashing down. I don't know if this will be the event but eventually it will end after enough hits.
Right, but we've always had people saying after every single big change that this is going to be why the game dies, and not a single one of them has been right. People are saying that 7*s will cause the game's death, but since they've been wrong about every single other one, I know where my money is best placed.
Do you have data on each change affecting the community size and kabam profits? Or just the length of a thread?
By the way, the 6* discussion thread was 35 pages over about 2 months. The current 7* thread is 9 pages after only 1 and a half days. I don't think that's a really fair comparison. Even if length of thread was a good indicator of how many people left the game since 6*s were announced, I don't think you've even compared it in an accurate way.
Wait....I thought the PB changes were....no, 12.0 was....no, War changes were....no 6*s were....no Gated content was....wait...
I dont understand comments like this. Rome wasnt built in 1 day but rome also didnt collapse because of one day. Its always multiple issues that take something down. You realize with each of those changes the community got smaller and kabams profits decreased. One of the main reasons this thread isn't 30 pages long like when 6 stars were announced and all those other things you have referenced is that alot of people have ALREADY left. I personally know way more people who have quit the game than who currently still play the game. I would assume many people are in the same boat. Every change is incremental. But you eventually get to a point where enough people have had enough and the thing comes crashing down. I don't know if this will be the event but eventually it will end after enough hits.
This is all true to some degree, but my money is on the game deteriorating far faster if none of those things happened.
There's no significance to pointing to an event like 12.0 and saying it was wrong because people left. People left the day 6* champs were announced, but they also left the day before 6* champs were announced. People leave all the time. People join all the time. The health of the game doesn't just depend on holding on to the players we have, it also depends on attracting new players.
The easiest thing to do is point to things that caused players to quit, because it is hard to point to the counter-factual. We can't point to an alternate reality and prove it would have been worse. Except, we sort of can. Students of game history can point to all sorts of examples from the past where games failed when they failed to take certain actions to extend their longevity. Most games I played had their 12.0 moment of rebalancing. But there are games that didn't take those actions. Many of them failed because of it. Progression maintenance? There are games that decided to stop doing that. As far as I'm aware, all of them are in maintenance mode.
Usually, it isn't the things you do that kills games. Its the things you failed to do. If this game were to fail tomorrow, nothing anyone did today would have killed it. Nothing anyone did in the past year would have killed it. Almost certainly, it was something we failed to do a couple years ago that would have killed it, and we would only be finding out now.
This is not my first rodeo. Or my second. Or my third. All this has happened before, and all this will happen again. These complaints are not original, and their observations not revelatory. They are what some people are always saying about every game. Sometimes they are right, usually they are wrong, much like stopped clocks.
It’s quite funny cause I was just talking to my alliance and commented that we were running out of space on the champ display pics. Totally forgot that there’s space ABOVE the head. 😂
That's exactly why I was worried, now you made it clear, don't forget the sides though. Now I am ready. Bring them to me.
Comments
How precisely this happens here is not something I'm privy to, but in every game where I am privy to it, this is primarily a data driven decision, not a judgment driven decision. Someone doesn't say they feel like it is time. Someone says according to this data, it is projected to have to happen within the next twelve months, and then the developers make it happen.
And those people making that decision rarely read game forums.
If they don't do this, yes they will be making less money over time, but not for the reason people think. It won't be because they will run out of things to sell. It will be because they run out of people to sell them to. Most of the players playing today, including most of the spenders, were not here eight years ago, or seven years ago, or even five years ago. The player base keeps turning over. People leave, people join. Without roster resets, fewer and fewer players would join. But it is unlikely everyone else would stay, because most players don't leave because of roster resets. So eventually, you have a dead game.
There are a lot of people who think this isn't the case, but game developers don't believe this because they all decided to guess. They know this because they have several decades of online gaming history to learn from, and player retention data most of us don't ever get a look at. So you can't convince them otherwise.
As someone still trying to find 6*s and grow that roster, I won't be spending any time on 7*s
But, with this news, I don't really have a motivation to roster build 6*s if R5s if 7*'s are just around the corner and are going to reset the roster building race again.
In the grand scheme, it's been 6+ years and it's been fun. But, I do not see it being fun, FOR ME, to repeat the collection all over again, yet another time - especially when I know the 1st dozen of champs I'd get, will likely be Beast and IronMan or someone along that calibur.
It is what is, but I'm going to be happy to call it quits, cold turkey, once and for all, knowing that the game is destined to just reset and repeat itself, once again.
For those that want to keep doing it, kudos to you. FOR ME though, I'm just coming to a personal realization that I can only swipe and tap, with the same champs, sporting a new star, for so long.
Oddly enough, this is exactly what I needed to hear to break me away from the game without having any feelings of remorse... which, if im really being honest, has been my primary driver for awhile now.
I get that part of the grind is getting the good with the bad but it will not be game destroying to allow people to have a decent champion with a chance of an amazing/god tier.
Aside from that nothing will differ again from 7* and 6*?
Not to mention, not all 5* have an equivalent 6* yet.
How about content? There is no content yet that actually stretches our current 6* roster the way act 6 did. No real difficulty in story yet.
There are lots of champions that just sits in people's roster still with no relevance at all.
Like what I said on the main post on this, I would rather welcome the arrival of "wish crystals" that will get me my missing champs (not just 6* but from 1* upwards)
I would also prefer content like another variant that would allow us to use our lower rarities.
I was really hoping that relics or another way of upgrading champs would be the future, not just another reset. I can see that ascension etc seem to be aimed in this direction but let’s be honest, no-one is going to be enthused about any form of 6-star as soon as the 7-star version is available).
On a personal level, I would like to know if my alliance is going to end up in the top 1000, or the top 100 AQ At 65% I might also want to resume competitive war, if Platinum empties out enough. At 65%, probably not, but at 95% or higher, I think it might be worth it.
The bottom line is, without something that facilitates longevity, which won't come from extra customizations or a few extra Ranks, the game really won't survive. The game itself is built on the acquisition and Ranking of Champions in increasing Rarities. Those added Rarities are what ensure it will continue. Not acquiring all the Champs we need, and building onto them. It's literally the foundation this game has been built on. Content follows the Champs, not the other way around.
Well, to be precise it's a co-creation, but without new Rarities to grow into, the content will hit a wall.
Do you have data on each change affecting the community size and kabam profits? Or just the length of a thread?
By the way, the 6* discussion thread was 35 pages over about 2 months. The current 7* thread is 9 pages after only 1 and a half days. I don't think that's a really fair comparison. Even if length of thread was a good indicator of how many people left the game since 6*s were announced, I don't think you've even compared it in an accurate way.
There's no significance to pointing to an event like 12.0 and saying it was wrong because people left. People left the day 6* champs were announced, but they also left the day before 6* champs were announced. People leave all the time. People join all the time. The health of the game doesn't just depend on holding on to the players we have, it also depends on attracting new players.
The easiest thing to do is point to things that caused players to quit, because it is hard to point to the counter-factual. We can't point to an alternate reality and prove it would have been worse. Except, we sort of can. Students of game history can point to all sorts of examples from the past where games failed when they failed to take certain actions to extend their longevity. Most games I played had their 12.0 moment of rebalancing. But there are games that didn't take those actions. Many of them failed because of it. Progression maintenance? There are games that decided to stop doing that. As far as I'm aware, all of them are in maintenance mode.
Usually, it isn't the things you do that kills games. Its the things you failed to do. If this game were to fail tomorrow, nothing anyone did today would have killed it. Nothing anyone did in the past year would have killed it. Almost certainly, it was something we failed to do a couple years ago that would have killed it, and we would only be finding out now.
This is not my first rodeo. Or my second. Or my third. All this has happened before, and all this will happen again. These complaints are not original, and their observations not revelatory. They are what some people are always saying about every game. Sometimes they are right, usually they are wrong, much like stopped clocks.