I'm guessing that the amount of 7* shards that players are getting is an average. So Kabam basically punishing casual players, new players, and whoever is below the average, just because there are people above the average.
It is a cost increase no matter how you dress it, and the fact you are making poor statements about it, is a bit insulting. I understand you are in a market where you don't care about getting the trust of your customers. You don't know them, they don't call you, you don't really talk to them, we are all nicknames, numbers etc... we are not people... but still for some as me we still appreciate an honest business relationship. You could just say, this is a premium product, it is the newest and it comes with a price as the new phone XY and Z, the newest car etc... I'd understand it and appreciate it, the way you communicate it just drives me away.
I'm guessing that the amount of 7* shards that players are getting is an average. So Kabam basically punishing casual players, new players, and whoever is below the average, just because there are people above the average.
It is a cost increase no matter how you dress it, and the fact you are making poor statements about it, is a bit insulting. I understand you are in a market where you don't care about getting the trust of your customers. You don't know them, they don't call you, you don't really talk to them, we are all nicknames, numbers etc... we are not people... but still for some as me we still appreciate an honest business relationship. You could just say, this is a premium product, it is the newest and it comes with a price as the new phone XY and Z, the newest car etc... I'd understand it and appreciate it, the way you communicate it just drives me away.
Kabam is quite abusive apparently. Slapping people in the face, punishing players left and right and insulting constantly. Shame on Kabam.
Titan shards are going to be next to useless for the vast majority of the game except for the top 0.1% of players who are going to be buying paragon crystals and have hundreds of thousands of 6 star shards saved up for their 7 star opening which will give them thousands more 7 star titan shards. The 99.9% of the community can expect to open like 1 titan crystal per year, especially as the 7 star pool continues to expand and it gets harder to dupe champs.
@Demonzfyre I'm sure you would love to pay taxes based on the average salary. Just make sure you stay above the average
Well, you stated that you were guessing that they decided off the average. It's ok to be wrong.
It is ok, I'd imagine has to be very annoying to know it all
I don't. Never claimed I do. It's likely it was based off an average which is fine. No one is punishing you, you just don't open as many 6*'s as others do. That isn't Kabams problem.
We have a large number of 6* Shards available on a regular basis comparative to the amount of 6* Shards that were available when 6*s were added. Significantly larger.
Thats how it works! Everything we get in the game right now is obtained easier than the day they were introduced (maybe with the exception of 1*).
That's not what I meant. I meant the amount of 7* Shards that are in the game is much greater than the amount of 6* Shards that were available when they were released.
Number of accounts increased, the duration for obtaining 7* shards was longer, so yeah, easily manipulated. See how much gold players have now compared to then…wanna bet its more? Does this mean gold should be reduced everywhere or prices need to go up?!
That's still not what I'm saying. The amount that individual Accounts have as of now is nowhere near what Accounts had at the onset of 6*s. When they were released, you had a very small number of Players that had enough to open a few Crystals. As of now, quite a number of Players will be able to open a number of 7*s when they hit, and that number is continuing to grow because of the availability of 6* Shards now. Sorry if you disagree, but Miike's reasoning checks out.
The other alternative would have been to keep them at 10k shards but only allow a certain amount to be opened per day or week. Would that have sat better with some people?
I'm guessing that the amount of 7* shards that players are getting is an average. So Kabam basically punishing casual players, new players, and whoever is below the average, just because there are people above the average.
It is a cost increase no matter how you dress it, and the fact you are making poor statements about it, is a bit insulting. I understand you are in a market where you don't care about getting the trust of your customers. You don't know them, they don't call you, you don't really talk to them, we are all nicknames, numbers etc... we are not people... but still for some as me we still appreciate an honest business relationship. You could just say, this is a premium product, it is the newest and it comes with a price as the new phone XY and Z, the newest car etc... I'd understand it and appreciate it, the way you communicate it just drives me away.
This is completely ludicrous.
Let's imagine that I actually *wanted* to punish casual players. How would I do that? Making the crystal more expensive proportionately affects everyone equally. If the whales earn ten times more shards than the casual players, they will get ten times more crystals whether they cost 10k or 100k. Ten times more is ten times more.
A better way to punish the casuals is to arbitrarily increase the number of shards players get in things the whales and the grinders do a lot of, but the casuals and F2P players do much less of. Since the whales do disproportionately more, they will get disproportionately more 7* champs. If we boost the 7* shards in EQ, there's no way for whales to get more, because everyone has the same chance to do EQ once for rewards. You can't get EQ rewards twice. So boosting 7* shards in non-repeatable content is ineffective in punishing casuals.
If we really want to punish the casuals, we have to boost the 7* shards from things the casuals do once and the whales and grinders do dozens of times, or hundreds of times. And there is one specific thing that the whales and grinder do more of than the casuals: they open more champion crystals. Non-casuals get far more shards from champion duplication than casuals, and boosting those would really stick it to the casuals. If we were to, say increase the shards from duplication from 275 to 2750, casuals would get a little more shards but everyone else would be getting disproportionately tons more. To keep the economy in balance, we make the 7* crystal cost more to compensate for the higher shard influx into the game. We increase the 7* shards from champion duplication, then average down the cost of the crystal. That would make it harder for casuals to get 7* champs and easier on a relative basis for everyone else to get more.
The announced change does the opposite. It increases the cost of the crystal but keeps the shards from duplication the same, and normalizes the shards from regular content to scale accordingly. This has the net mathematical effect of reducing the value of shards from champion duplication, which is the exact opposite of what you would do if you were trying to punish casual players.
Because champion duplication from champion crystals is something casual players do far less often than whales and other more active players, reducing the relative value of duplication shards has the net effect of reducing the gap between casual players and everyone else. I really wish people would stop calling this either a cash grab or a move to punish casual players. The math says it does the exact opposite. Basic, trivial, if-you-cant-get-this-right-you-have-no-business-talking-about-game-economies math.
We wanted to clarify something as it doesn't appear we were clear in this morning's stream.
The reason 7* crystals cost 15,000 shards is because of the number of 7* shards players are generating from 6* dupes. When we looked at the data, we saw that players are currently generating more 7* shards through dupes than they were acquiring 6* shards from all sources when 6*s launched.
This is because of the way rewards have stacked across four Progresson Groups that are all currently chasing 6*s, with 6* rewards in content for Uncollected, Cavalier, Thronebreaker and Paragon players. This was the inevitable result of the longer gap between the introduction of 6* and 7* champions compared to previous rarities.
This dynamic meant that we had to change something about our plans for 7*s. We didn't want to dilute the 7* pool with lower quality champions, we didn't want to reduce the number of 7* shards players could earn through content, and we didn't want to have to ration 6* shards in content such as the upcoming Paragon difficulty Side Quest (more info on this soon).
So the only real option we had was to increase the cost of the 7* crystal. We have scaled 7* rewards to match this new cost. For instance, AW Rank 1 will still grant a full 7* crystal the next time AW rewards are updated, as was always the plan. However, the 7* shards you get for duping a 6* will remain the same, as reducing that ratio was the whole purpose of the decision to price the 7* crystal at 15,000 shards.
Thx tor the clarification on the cost of 7 stars.
The stream in which Jax and Aidan presented the new 7 stars and the Act 8.2 didn't answered all the questions we could have. Maybe you could answer those questions ?
- What will be the cost to rank up a 7 stars to rank 2 ?
- When will we see this basic pool of 7 stars expand ?
- At what rate will new champions be included into the basic pool ?
- What will be the cost of the futur paragon crystal ? When will it be release ? Will it have the same odd to get a 7 stars as the Thronebreaker one for 6 stars ?
- Jax said the new Titan crystal (7 stars featured crystal) will take time to release. Can we know approximately how many time ?
- As people will start expanding their roster with 7 stars, will we see some new difficulties arrive ? AQ9 ? EQ Paragon level ? SQ Paragon level ? New content abyss like difficulty ?
- What about those exclusive champions like Scarlet Witch Sigil, unstoppable Colossus (he really need a good rework), Punisher, immortal iron fist, GoldPool, PlatinumPool, DeadPool, Jessica Jones, Thanos, Weapon X, Kang, will they get their 7 stars versions ? Will some of those available in the Black Iso Market with Scarlet Witch Sigil ?
We wanted to clarify something as it doesn't appear we were clear in this morning's stream.
The reason 7* crystals cost 15,000 shards is because of the number of 7* shards players are generating from 6* dupes. When we looked at the data, we saw that players are currently generating more 7* shards through dupes than they were acquiring 6* shards from all sources when 6*s launched.
This is because of the way rewards have stacked across four Progresson Groups that are all currently chasing 6*s, with 6* rewards in content for Uncollected, Cavalier, Thronebreaker and Paragon players. This was the inevitable result of the longer gap between the introduction of 6* and 7* champions compared to previous rarities.
This dynamic meant that we had to change something about our plans for 7*s. We didn't want to dilute the 7* pool with lower quality champions, we didn't want to reduce the number of 7* shards players could earn through content, and we didn't want to have to ration 6* shards in content such as the upcoming Paragon difficulty Side Quest (more info on this soon).
So the only real option we had was to increase the cost of the 7* crystal. We have scaled 7* rewards to match this new cost. For instance, AW Rank 1 will still grant a full 7* crystal the next time AW rewards are updated, as was always the plan. However, the 7* shards you get for duping a 6* will remain the same, as reducing that ratio was the whole purpose of the decision to price the 7* crystal at 15,000 shards.
Thx tor the clarification on the cost of 7 stars.
The stream in which Jax and Aidan presented the new 7 stars and the Act 8.2 didn't answered all the questions we could have. Maybe you could answer those questions ?
- What will be the cost to rank up a 7 stars to rank 2 ?
- When will we see this basic pool of 7 stars expand ?
- At what rate will new champions be included into the basic pool ?
- What will be the cost of the futur paragon crystal ? When will it be release ? Will it have the same odd to get a 7 stars as the Thronebreaker one for 6 stars ?
- Jax said the new Titan crystal (7 stars featured crystal) will take time to release. Can we know approximately how many time ?
- As people will start expanding their roster with 7 stars, will we see some new difficulties arrive ? AQ9 ? EQ Paragon level ? SQ Paragon level ? New content abyss like difficulty ?
- What about those exclusive champions like Scarlet Witch Sigil, unstoppable Colossus (he really need a good rework), Punisher, immortal iron fist, GoldPool, PlatinumPool, DeadPool, Jessica Jones, Thanos, Weapon X, Kang, will they get their 7 stars versions ? Will some of those available in the Black Iso Market with Scarlet Witch Sigil ?
Thx for reading and providing answer if you can
Kabam, can you give us an answer to those questions please ?
The only thing that can really be answered right now is the cost to R2 a 7* is 4 T6CC, 4T5CC, 7T6B, and 7T3A. So 1 one more each item to R5 a 6*. Other than that, the other answer will probably come later on time
Where did you find this information ? is it a guess after looking at the evolution of 6 stars compared to 5 stars or did Kabam gave the info ?
This was given to CCP by request and was allowed to be shared. Nothing written down yet but that’s what was said the cost will be at this time.
For a LONG time, I was honestly okay with 7 star crystals requiring more shards than 6 stars. The idea behind it was that 7 stars are obviously a higher value and therefore, cannot be offered at the same price, despite the fact that 5 stars are still 10k, the same price as 6 stars, (I even advocated for the price of 5 star crystals to drop with the release of 6 stars, but that didn't work out for me). The reason this thinking is flawed, and the reason I want to point out to Kabam that the current shard requirement for 7 star crystals IS too high, is that I was thinking in terms of 6 star abundance. I had the misconception that 7 star shards right out the gate would be as easy to come by as 6 star shards are now. That was ignorant of me, it took a LONG time to get to where we are now with 6 star shards. When those released, they were SCARCE. Players had to beg for MONTHS, even a year or two for Kabam to include more 6 star shards in things like EQ and arenas and other areas.
With that in mind, I thought 7 star crystals SHOULD cost more shards, forgetting that they won't be anywhere near as easy to come by as 6 star shards are right now. So, if Kabam should happen to read this one little comment out of the hundreds here, I hope you consider this. Reduce the cost of 7 star crystals, OR increase their availability. I'm not asking that we get the same amount of 7 star shards as we do 6 star shards, but I'm hoping 7 star shards will be part of the rewards for EQ and various other rewards as well. IF we're only getting 7 star shards from duping 6 star champions, then the cost of 7 star crystals HAVE to come down.
I am a Paragon player, I am not a free to play player, I open several 6 star crystals every month, but even I don't have enough 7 star shards for a crystal, and will not have enough when they release early next month, even with the first two time discount. I do not have 10k 7 star crystal shards and I will NOT have 10k by the time they release. Acquiring shards ONLY by duping 6 stars is simply not good enough.
The other alternative would have been to keep them at 10k shards but only allow a certain amount to be opened per day or week. Would that have sat better with some people?
The only good alternative would be Kabam instead of making the first 2 crystals cost 10k and rest 15k, have done the opposite. If the problem is (which to be honest it is) people have accumulated a lot of 7* shards all these months, then they should have priced the first X 7* crystals at 15k shards or even 20k shards, in order to drain faster the stashed 7* shards and balance things out, and all crystals beyond that with the normal 10k shards price. Now players will pay the 50% penalty eternally. Yes there was a problem, but the solution was poor in my opinion.
The other alternative would have been to keep them at 10k shards but only allow a certain amount to be opened per day or week. Would that have sat better with some people?
The only good alternative would be Kabam instead of making the first 2 crystals cost 10k and rest 15k, have done the opposite. If the problem is (which to be honest it is) people have accumulated a lot of 7* shards all these months, then they should have priced the first X 7* crystals at 15k shards or even 20k shards, in order to drain faster the stashed 7* shards and balance things out, and all crystals beyond that with the normal 10k shards price. Now players will pay the 50% penalty eternally. Yes there was a problem, but the solution was poor in my opinion.
The problem is only going to get worse. It’s not like 6* shards are going to get rarer. Whatever the problem is not, it will be five times worse in a year or two.
The problem is not that players have accumulated tons of shards. The problem is that it is even *possible* for players to accumulate tons of shards, because it is possible to duplicate 6* champions almost continuously. However fast players are doing that now, they will be doing it even faster in the future.
Sounds like they’re anticipating us opening 20 6* per 7* since 20 would make up the difference of the 5000 shards. Not all will be dupes for players with smaller rosters of course, leading to a sort of naturally increased cost for them, but that’s always been the same. Wish it were 12.5 personally.
Comments
It is a cost increase no matter how you dress it, and the fact you are making poor statements about it, is a bit insulting. I understand you are in a market where you don't care about getting the trust of your customers. You don't know them, they don't call you, you don't really talk to them, we are all nicknames, numbers etc... we are not people... but still for some as me we still appreciate an honest business relationship. You could just say, this is a premium product, it is the newest and it comes with a price as the new phone XY and Z, the newest car etc... I'd understand it and appreciate it, the way you communicate it just drives me away.
Let's imagine that I actually *wanted* to punish casual players. How would I do that? Making the crystal more expensive proportionately affects everyone equally. If the whales earn ten times more shards than the casual players, they will get ten times more crystals whether they cost 10k or 100k. Ten times more is ten times more.
A better way to punish the casuals is to arbitrarily increase the number of shards players get in things the whales and the grinders do a lot of, but the casuals and F2P players do much less of. Since the whales do disproportionately more, they will get disproportionately more 7* champs. If we boost the 7* shards in EQ, there's no way for whales to get more, because everyone has the same chance to do EQ once for rewards. You can't get EQ rewards twice. So boosting 7* shards in non-repeatable content is ineffective in punishing casuals.
If we really want to punish the casuals, we have to boost the 7* shards from things the casuals do once and the whales and grinders do dozens of times, or hundreds of times. And there is one specific thing that the whales and grinder do more of than the casuals: they open more champion crystals. Non-casuals get far more shards from champion duplication than casuals, and boosting those would really stick it to the casuals. If we were to, say increase the shards from duplication from 275 to 2750, casuals would get a little more shards but everyone else would be getting disproportionately tons more. To keep the economy in balance, we make the 7* crystal cost more to compensate for the higher shard influx into the game. We increase the 7* shards from champion duplication, then average down the cost of the crystal. That would make it harder for casuals to get 7* champs and easier on a relative basis for everyone else to get more.
The announced change does the opposite. It increases the cost of the crystal but keeps the shards from duplication the same, and normalizes the shards from regular content to scale accordingly. This has the net mathematical effect of reducing the value of shards from champion duplication, which is the exact opposite of what you would do if you were trying to punish casual players.
Because champion duplication from champion crystals is something casual players do far less often than whales and other more active players, reducing the relative value of duplication shards has the net effect of reducing the gap between casual players and everyone else. I really wish people would stop calling this either a cash grab or a move to punish casual players. The math says it does the exact opposite. Basic, trivial, if-you-cant-get-this-right-you-have-no-business-talking-about-game-economies math.
With that in mind, I thought 7 star crystals SHOULD cost more shards, forgetting that they won't be anywhere near as easy to come by as 6 star shards are right now. So, if Kabam should happen to read this one little comment out of the hundreds here, I hope you consider this. Reduce the cost of 7 star crystals, OR increase their availability. I'm not asking that we get the same amount of 7 star shards as we do 6 star shards, but I'm hoping 7 star shards will be part of the rewards for EQ and various other rewards as well. IF we're only getting 7 star shards from duping 6 star champions, then the cost of 7 star crystals HAVE to come down.
I am a Paragon player, I am not a free to play player, I open several 6 star crystals every month, but even I don't have enough 7 star shards for a crystal, and will not have enough when they release early next month, even with the first two time discount. I do not have 10k 7 star crystal shards and I will NOT have 10k by the time they release. Acquiring shards ONLY by duping 6 stars is simply not good enough.
If the problem is (which to be honest it is) people have accumulated a lot of 7* shards all these months, then they should have priced the first X 7* crystals at 15k shards or even 20k shards, in order to drain faster the stashed 7* shards and balance things out, and all crystals beyond that with the normal 10k shards price.
Now players will pay the 50% penalty eternally.
Yes there was a problem, but the solution was poor in my opinion.
The problem is not that players have accumulated tons of shards. The problem is that it is even *possible* for players to accumulate tons of shards, because it is possible to duplicate 6* champions almost continuously. However fast players are doing that now, they will be doing it even faster in the future.