The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
I think that's something which hasn't been mentioned much. While the gap between f2p and whale is arguably bigger than it has ever been with these sales (and yes I know there a version of this conversation every year) the stretch also applies to casual spenders who could maybe afford a single Tony Stark's briefcase, compared to someone who can buy all the Odins and have a party on the Summoner's Market too.
I think one of the biggest issues is actually Battleground, and the Battlegrounds Store. If skill is roughly equivalent, then the better roster will win. The Battlegrounds store is the best value in the game, and because of this being largely enabled by a competitive game mode those who can't compete have to make do with leftovers.
For the game to survive, there needs to be a reason for whales to spend the cash. F2P players are basically getting something for free, and licensing established properties certainly isn't cheap. They will be unlikely to compete at the top table, but will at least were able to compete at the lower tables so to speak.
But... this year the Unit Store offers are immense. For those who can buy multiple Odins, they are getting a great, great deal. When you add that to the confusing way that the Tiered Resource bundles work, then I can see why f2p and casuals are a bit grumpy, off the back of other changes this year like the farming nerds.
While the gap between big spenders and f2p/casuals needs to exist, it feels like these offers have stretched that gap a little too much.
As I said, if the offers are good, you can purchase as well, right? There is no restriction though.
It is pretty strange. Rather than seeing someone complaining that the deals are not good enough. We just see people who has no intention to spend anything complaining that the deals are too good.
I spent (several hundred - and agree with the person you quoted. The issue is not that there is a gap, or that the deals maintain the gap, but that they have increased the gap at a ratio not experienced before. I went from 1 to 9 6r5 and did not get even half of what was on offer.
The problem as he said is that kabam seem to have put all their eggs in the BGs basket, and to compete in BGs it's all about roster. AQ/glory store hasn't ben properly updated in over 7 months, AW/loyalty the same. Black ISO is a bit of a waste of time.
Without free and/or casual spending players there are no whales (who would they compete with but themselves?). Without whales there is no game.
Kabam need to find a better balance than the one they struck this past weekend especially with the $99 deals. The impact was immediately felt in BGs in a season where there is no AW ,and AQ almost seems pointless based on the rewards.
You want a gap but one that encourages f2p and casual to keep competing and whales to keep spending. Where we are is a bit precarious.
Let's see what they do in the next couple months to address this imbalance.
I’ll try not to sound too whiny especially considering this is all pictures on a screen, but I can’t help but feel as if this company is a bit short sighted. The way this game functioned at one point was you could either invest a large amount of time to acquire resources, or you could invest very little or no time and get the same or slightly better resources. At this point I think it’s safe to say that is no longer the case. After this most recent “Fun in the Sun” Sale there is absolutely no way a free to play player could have anywhere near the roster of a paid player even if they were dedicating 24 hours of their day towards acquiring resources and stockpiling units. I’m not saying don’t make deals as tempting or well valued as they are, but maybe someway of putting in the work to get at least somewhat close to what you can pay for? Right now there is LITERALLY nothing I can do in this game to get anywhere near even half the amount of Rank 5 6 star champions as someone could’ve just gotten from swiping their credit card. I love this game, I would hate to quit playing it… but at this point playing it feels like an unnecessary step. Click, swipe, win.
Myself and another expressed similar concerns. This was simply a poor business decision by kabam.
With a lot of explanation about BG by many, saying that the game will be more divided between FTP and whales. The point is that game mode is competitive. That's why people spend their money to grow their roster to be more competitive there. FTP also love to play there because of rewards. So, what is the point to make life the same between people who are willing to spend some money and the people who don't?
And the people who don't want to spend are complaining that the deals are too good, but, bottom line is they still don't even think about purchasing anything. Strange!!
Whiny freeloaders will whine. Also if you’re not in GC, you probably should refrain from whining and go get better at the game.
And yeah I bought all the 4-5 gems and haven’t even opened them. Still made it to GC in week one as usual with my single Carina r5 Herc.
You all seem to be very good at boiling down an argument to one point. I never said “make these offers worse” or “you shouldn’t be able to buy any of these things this should be a completely free game “ I just said that I think this game would be better off if they implemented a way to progress from grinding and putting in work as opposed to just paying for the good items. Whales will still whale because they don’t want to grind content or even just because they want the extra materials. But that’s just what these offers should be… EXTRA materials, not EXCLUSIVE PROGRESSION
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
I think that's something which hasn't been mentioned much. While the gap between f2p and whale is arguably bigger than it has ever been with these sales (and yes I know there a version of this conversation every year) the stretch also applies to casual spenders who could maybe afford a single Tony Stark's briefcase, compared to someone who can buy all the Odins and have a party on the Summoner's Market too.
I think one of the biggest issues is actually Battleground, and the Battlegrounds Store. If skill is roughly equivalent, then the better roster will win. The Battlegrounds store is the best value in the game, and because of this being largely enabled by a competitive game mode those who can't compete have to make do with leftovers.
For the game to survive, there needs to be a reason for whales to spend the cash. F2P players are basically getting something for free, and licensing established properties certainly isn't cheap. They will be unlikely to compete at the top table, but will at least were able to compete at the lower tables so to speak.
But... this year the Unit Store offers are immense. For those who can buy multiple Odins, they are getting a great, great deal. When you add that to the confusing way that the Tiered Resource bundles work, then I can see why f2p and casuals are a bit grumpy, off the back of other changes this year like the farming nerds.
While the gap between big spenders and f2p/casuals needs to exist, it feels like these offers have stretched that gap a little too much.
As I said, if the offers are good, you can purchase as well, right? There is no restriction though.
It is pretty strange. Rather than seeing someone complaining that the deals are not good enough. We just see people who has no intention to spend anything complaining that the deals are too good.
I spent (several hundred - and agree with the person you quoted. The issue is not that there is a gap, or that the deals maintain the gap, but that they have increased the gap at a ratio not experienced before. I went from 1 to 9 6r5 and did not get even half of what was on offer.
The problem as he said is that kabam seem to have put all their eggs in the BGs basket, and to compete in BGs it's all about roster. AQ/glory store hasn't ben properly updated in over 7 months, AW/loyalty the same. Black ISO is a bit of a waste of time.
Without free and/or casual spending players there are no whales (who would they compete with but themselves?). Without whales there is no game.
Kabam need to find a better balance than the one they struck this past weekend especially with the $99 deals. The impact was immediately felt in BGs in a season where there is no AW ,and AQ almost seems pointless based on the rewards.
You want a gap but one that encourages f2p and casual to keep competing and whales to keep spending. Where we are is a bit precarious.
Let's see what they do in the next couple months to address this imbalance.
Again, people's opinion on the offers r relative. Some feel it is just right, some feel it's too good, some feel it's not good enough.
You may feel this year's offer is too good, someone may feel it's not good enough.
Most of the CCP have raved about how good these offers are. For those who can afford them, they are great offers and will do wonders for rosters. Whether you or anyone else agrees or not with that, then that's cool - it's yours and their perspective.
The quality of the offers does widen the split between pure FTP and big spenders - whether that is a good, bad or indifferent thing, that's your perception.
Bringing religion into the debate and using it to try and defend your perspective on a mobile video game - my perspective is that you've lost the argument and this thread has run it's course.
But that's just my perception, as someone who is not FTP.
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
I think that's something which hasn't been mentioned much. While the gap between f2p and whale is arguably bigger than it has ever been with these sales (and yes I know there a version of this conversation every year) the stretch also applies to casual spenders who could maybe afford a single Tony Stark's briefcase, compared to someone who can buy all the Odins and have a party on the Summoner's Market too.
I think one of the biggest issues is actually Battleground, and the Battlegrounds Store. If skill is roughly equivalent, then the better roster will win. The Battlegrounds store is the best value in the game, and because of this being largely enabled by a competitive game mode those who can't compete have to make do with leftovers.
For the game to survive, there needs to be a reason for whales to spend the cash. F2P players are basically getting something for free, and licensing established properties certainly isn't cheap. They will be unlikely to compete at the top table, but will at least were able to compete at the lower tables so to speak.
But... this year the Unit Store offers are immense. For those who can buy multiple Odins, they are getting a great, great deal. When you add that to the confusing way that the Tiered Resource bundles work, then I can see why f2p and casuals are a bit grumpy, off the back of other changes this year like the farming nerds.
While the gap between big spenders and f2p/casuals needs to exist, it feels like these offers have stretched that gap a little too much.
As I said, if the offers are good, you can purchase as well, right? There is no restriction though.
It is pretty strange. Rather than seeing someone complaining that the deals are not good enough. We just see people who has no intention to spend anything complaining that the deals are too good.
I spent (several hundred - and agree with the person you quoted. The issue is not that there is a gap, or that the deals maintain the gap, but that they have increased the gap at a ratio not experienced before. I went from 1 to 9 6r5 and did not get even half of what was on offer.
The problem as he said is that kabam seem to have put all their eggs in the BGs basket, and to compete in BGs it's all about roster. AQ/glory store hasn't ben properly updated in over 7 months, AW/loyalty the same. Black ISO is a bit of a waste of time.
Without free and/or casual spending players there are no whales (who would they compete with but themselves?). Without whales there is no game.
Kabam need to find a better balance than the one they struck this past weekend especially with the $99 deals. The impact was immediately felt in BGs in a season where there is no AW ,and AQ almost seems pointless based on the rewards.
You want a gap but one that encourages f2p and casual to keep competing and whales to keep spending. Where we are is a bit precarious.
Let's see what they do in the next couple months to address this imbalance.
I think this is a great balance perpective. I fully agreed, a health game community are one that have a good balance between, big spenders, casual spenders and free to play. They are all good and vital to the game life.
And in a healthy game environment, the space will be there for everyone to appreciate each other and what each players bring to the game. The game could not survive without big and casual spenders, and at the same time the game would struggle if there wasn't enough ftp in the space (imagine how much longer it would take to find a match in BG).
Of course spenders in game should have an advantage, it is well deserved, they pay for it. But at the same time, if one spending event could give any new (relatively) player, the same kind of progress (account size) that take players years to work toward (both spending and ftp), then maybe something should be review.
Let face where if you agreed or disagreed this thread clearly show how this event have divided players from both side, and that can't never be good for the game environment or community.
'Hope' is the only reason why anyone keep doing what they do, hope that they can stand a chance, hope that they could catch up. It might not have to be real, but just don't make it too obvious 🤣🤣🤣
As someone already said, this game is extremely friendly to FTPs, I am ftp and I got 4 rank 5 6* from the event which is amazing to me.
I grinned 30k units for the July deal with a reasonable amount of time not crazy. I even felt bored sometimes because I finished arena grind so quickly that I have nothing else to do.
So feel grateful for what Kabam offered to you. My only concern is that the game move to 7* so quickly that in the near future they have to think about 8*.
I feel there is a slight issue with the knock on effect of so many rank up materials in the offers this year. It devalues the more important content. Especially if it puts more value on arena than other content ie. It teaches me if I have limited time I can get potentially better rewards by grinding arena for units than exploring end-game content such as Act 8 , everest content etc ie. In an extreme case why bother exploring Act 8 if you get more reward for unit grinding. If so, then kabam put hours of work into making new Story content and it'll reduce in player importance, which is a shame as it deserves to get played, and personally I consider it more fun and varied to play than just grinding.
I guess it can all change in a week or 2 when the much needed Act 8.3 drops with (hopefully) mega rewards or a Glory store revamp etc.
I wonder if it's all an intentional timing thing as the game economy shifts : That kabam made the offers look great by holding back other rewards for a few months, then with an incoming store and quest update when the offers have cleared, everything falls back into balance as resources suddenly become more plentiful?
The issue here is FTP are complaining about whales have too good deals. Although they could buy, they won't.
The point is they want more free stuffs that the whales get, but they don't want to spend money.
Pure absurdity.
no, you dont understand the problem. i'm no f2p, i actually did spend a couple odins on the deals myself, and got most, if not all of the unit deals on top of that, being a big arena grinder. That being said, I'm also a map8 top 45 player, BGs alliance top 50 player, and a masters top10 player. Being in these three brackets for multiple seasons consecutively hasnt provided EVEN A FRACTION of what was offered in these deals. Playing the top game modes for a long time hasnt netted anything of this magnitude. If playing the game at the highest levels dont give these resources, why are random summoners able to drop cash and race upward for doing absolutely nothing? That is where this sentiment is coming from. I have no problems of there being monetary benefits, my own account is multitudes smaller than those in my alliance, which includes some notable Youtubers. But being able to drop a few hundreds and race past what all gamemodes offer, in just a few minutes, left a bad taste in my mouth.
no, you dont understand the problem. i'm no f2p, i actually did spend a couple odins on the deals myself, and got most, if not all of the unit deals on top of that, being a big arena grinder. That being said, I'm also a map8 top 45 player, BGs alliance top 50 player, and a masters top10 player. Being in these three brackets for multiple seasons consecutively hasnt provided EVEN A FRACTION of what was offered in these deals. Playing the top game modes for a long time hasnt netted anything of this magnitude. If playing the game at the highest levels dont give these resources, why are random summoners able to drop cash and race upward for doing absolutely nothing? That is where this sentiment is coming from. I have no problems of there being monetary benefits, my own account is multitudes smaller than those in my alliance, which includes some notable Youtubers. But being able to drop a few hundreds and race past what all gamemodes offer, in just a few minutes, left a bad taste in my mouth.
Nothing new here, P2W year by year has always been getting wider. This year more than ever has had more "solo spending events" Banquet, 7*/Paragon arguably, July 4th ones, and I feel like I'm missing one.
This was always going to be the direction we've been heading we've been promised a FTP friendly event coming soon, but even that may widen the gap further if it promotes spending further.
The issue here is FTP are complaining about whales have too good deals. Although they could buy, they won't.
The point is they want more free stuffs that the whales get, but they don't want to spend money.
Pure absurdity.
no, you dont understand the problem. i'm no f2p, i actually did spend a couple odins on the deals myself, and got most, if not all of the unit deals on top of that, being a big arena grinder. That being said, I'm also a map8 top 45 player, BGs alliance top 50 player, and a masters top10 player. Being in these three brackets for multiple seasons consecutively hasnt provided EVEN A FRACTION of what was offered in these deals. Playing the top game modes for a long time hasnt netted anything of this magnitude. If playing the game at the highest levels dont give these resources, why are random summoners able to drop cash and race upward for doing absolutely nothing? That is where this sentiment is coming from. I have no problems of there being monetary benefits, my own account is multitudes smaller than those in my alliance, which includes some notable Youtubers. But being able to drop a few hundreds and race past what all gamemodes offer, in just a few minutes, left a bad taste in my mouth.
That's really been the way of it, though. As far as I can remember. First it's given to the spenders, then it becomes more available in content. It's the same with the Gifting Event. All I see that as is an indication the content will have more material in the near future.
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
I think that's something which hasn't been mentioned much. While the gap between f2p and whale is arguably bigger than it has ever been with these sales (and yes I know there a version of this conversation every year) the stretch also applies to casual spenders who could maybe afford a single Tony Stark's briefcase, compared to someone who can buy all the Odins and have a party on the Summoner's Market too.
I think one of the biggest issues is actually Battleground, and the Battlegrounds Store. If skill is roughly equivalent, then the better roster will win. The Battlegrounds store is the best value in the game, and because of this being largely enabled by a competitive game mode those who can't compete have to make do with leftovers.
For the game to survive, there needs to be a reason for whales to spend the cash. F2P players are basically getting something for free, and licensing established properties certainly isn't cheap. They will be unlikely to compete at the top table, but will at least were able to compete at the lower tables so to speak.
But... this year the Unit Store offers are immense. For those who can buy multiple Odins, they are getting a great, great deal. When you add that to the confusing way that the Tiered Resource bundles work, then I can see why f2p and casuals are a bit grumpy, off the back of other changes this year like the farming nerds.
While the gap between big spenders and f2p/casuals needs to exist, it feels like these offers have stretched that gap a little too much.
As I said, if the offers are good, you can purchase as well, right? There is no restriction though.
It is pretty strange. Rather than seeing someone complaining that the deals are not good enough. We just see people who has no intention to spend anything complaining that the deals are too good.
I spent (several hundred - and agree with the person you quoted. The issue is not that there is a gap, or that the deals maintain the gap, but that they have increased the gap at a ratio not experienced before. I went from 1 to 9 6r5 and did not get even half of what was on offer.
The problem as he said is that kabam seem to have put all their eggs in the BGs basket, and to compete in BGs it's all about roster. AQ/glory store hasn't ben properly updated in over 7 months, AW/loyalty the same. Black ISO is a bit of a waste of time.
Without free and/or casual spending players there are no whales (who would they compete with but themselves?). Without whales there is no game.
Kabam need to find a better balance than the one they struck this past weekend especially with the $99 deals. The impact was immediately felt in BGs in a season where there is no AW ,and AQ almost seems pointless based on the rewards.
You want a gap but one that encourages f2p and casual to keep competing and whales to keep spending. Where we are is a bit precarious.
Let's see what they do in the next couple months to address this imbalance.
Again, people's opinion on the offers r relative. Some feel it is just right, some feel it's too good, some feel it's not good enough.
Everything is relative. What's not is that the gap in what has been offered via cash vs what is by units is larger/more than in previous events. The fact you can get each deal 2 more times than what was possible a year ago (from 3 to 4, and now 5 with the web store within a year) alone proves this.
The impact of that has been more drastic because of the absence of in-line-with-the-times updates in several game modes outside of BGs where the most focus in terms of rewards are, and where the roster gap is very influential.
The issue here is FTP are complaining about whales have too good deals. Although they could buy, they won't.
The point is they want more free stuffs that the whales get, but they don't want to spend money.
Pure absurdity.
no, you dont understand the problem. i'm no f2p, i actually did spend a couple odins on the deals myself, and got most, if not all of the unit deals on top of that, being a big arena grinder. That being said, I'm also a map8 top 45 player, BGs alliance top 50 player, and a masters top10 player. Being in these three brackets for multiple seasons consecutively hasnt provided EVEN A FRACTION of what was offered in these deals. Playing the top game modes for a long time hasnt netted anything of this magnitude. If playing the game at the highest levels dont give these resources, why are random summoners able to drop cash and race upward for doing absolutely nothing? That is where this sentiment is coming from. I have no problems of there being monetary benefits, my own account is multitudes smaller than those in my alliance, which includes some notable Youtubers. But being able to drop a few hundreds and race past what all gamemodes offer, in just a few minutes, left a bad taste in my mouth.
That's really been the way of it, though. As far as I can remember. First it's given to the spenders, then it becomes more available in content. It's the same with the Gifting Event. All I see that as is an indication the content will have more material in the near future.
Yes it definitely has been the way. And thats exactly what ive been hoping for, more mats in the future. This though, imo, is a unnecessary speeding up of the economy. What long term this translates to, hopefully isnt something harmful.
After ~8 years, I’m still amused by concerns about the “economy.” My experience suggests the economic piece that drives game decisions is revenues first, ramifications later.
Dr. Zola
And yet the most common complaint about offers is the value is generally too low, and if only they increased the value in those offers or reduced their prices or both they would sell more stuff. And they probably would. Is your theory that everyone at Kabam that manages the economy is completely unaware of this? If revenue was the thing that drives their decisions, why aren't they doing very obvious trivial things that would increase revenue?
Why do the offers have limits, for example? There's no direct revenue reason for purchase limits. If the limits on J4 offers was six or twelve or twenty I'm sure there would be people who would max them out. How about the daily specials? I would bet anything that if you could buy a hundred of them all at once, Kabam would be selling thousands more of them. What's the revenue driver that sets these limits?
In fact, I cannot think of a single monetization offer in the history of the game whose design could be explained solely or primarily by the desire to maximize the revenue from that offer. Can anyone?
To be clear, I didn’t say *maximizing* revenues, nor did I say *revenues only.* Shouldn't ignore the nuance there.
But…can you really think of many offers that don’t have revenue as a primary driver? Granted, there may some that are more along the lines of “feelers,” but if revenue isn’t a major goal—especially for big event cash offers—then what is it?
And of course there are offer limits, in much the same way economies know they can’t print endless currency to solve poverty. The existence of limits doesn’t disprove revenue as a primary motivation—in fact, the existence of limits supports the primacy of revenue as a motivator because the *very smart people* who design offers understand that allowing unlimited buying of resources would likely kill the fowl that keeps laying the golden eggs that pay their salaries.
The real question is whether or not those very smart people were correct in their balancing of revenues/ramifications when they drew the parameters for this most recent round of offers.
Guys….. we need to stop saying “ spenders and FTP”. I will explain: this was only one day where Kabam takes money, but there is 364 more days, and what you think how they make money all other days…..well: from us guys , people like me that buys sigil, monthly unit offer, daily paragon etc….so I’m not FTP! And what Kabam did on this day for us ( majority of community)- NOTHING…and what now?….easy… a see that even I spend Kabam will do nothing for me-us…so- I will not spend anymore…lol… and if we - like me - stop to do that …. Lol…. It will hurt….
The issue here is FTP are complaining about whales have too good deals. Although they could buy, they won't.
The point is they want more free stuffs that the whales get, but they don't want to spend money.
Pure absurdity.
no, you dont understand the problem. i'm no f2p, i actually did spend a couple odins on the deals myself, and got most, if not all of the unit deals on top of that, being a big arena grinder. That being said, I'm also a map8 top 45 player, BGs alliance top 50 player, and a masters top10 player. Being in these three brackets for multiple seasons consecutively hasnt provided EVEN A FRACTION of what was offered in these deals. Playing the top game modes for a long time hasnt netted anything of this magnitude. If playing the game at the highest levels dont give these resources, why are random summoners able to drop cash and race upward for doing absolutely nothing? That is where this sentiment is coming from. I have no problems of there being monetary benefits, my own account is multitudes smaller than those in my alliance, which includes some notable Youtubers. But being able to drop a few hundreds and race past what all gamemodes offer, in just a few minutes, left a bad taste in my mouth.
That's really been the way of it, though. As far as I can remember. First it's given to the spenders, then it becomes more available in content. It's the same with the Gifting Event. All I see that as is an indication the content will have more material in the near future.
Yes it definitely has been the way. And thats exactly what ive been hoping for, more mats in the future. This though, imo, is a unnecessary speeding up of the economy. What long term this translates to, hopefully isnt something harmful.
I don't know if it's unnecessary or not. Eventually we'll be looking at 7* R3s. There's always a plan further down.
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
The way this game functioned at one point was you could either invest a large amount of time to acquire resources, or you could invest very little or no time and get the same or slightly better resources.
Although I hear this a lot, even from players whose opinions I respect, I personally have never felt this way in the entire history of the game. Going all the way back to when T4CC was the top resource in the game, you had to be in a top tier alliance to get it. There was no way to (directly) buy them with cash, and no plausible way to grind for them with any amount of time. And at the time, the complaint was that the only way to get into top tier alliances was with high prestige, which was the purview of the big spenders and a few very high F2P grinders.
As someone who used to run in an above average alliance (say, top 300 AQ and tier 5/6 AW) and has generally been a higher than average arena grinder, I have *always* felt that I could keep pace with the top players, in terms of not falling too far behind them, but also *never* felt that with just a little more spending, grinding, or pushing I could actually catch up to them.
I'm now in a much more relaxed alliance (~3200 AQ and tier 12 AW) and honestly I don't feel like I've fallen that much further behind. I spend a bit more, I push a bit less, and I'm still drafting behind the economic wake of the top tier players.
I understand that experience is individual. I know people who have echoed what you're seeing. I just don't think this is a universal sentiment based on objective economic realities. It is driven by the perception of moving targets, and honestly some rose colored views of the past. There are players who had no trouble in the T4CC days and now feel like they are falling behind. But then there are people like me who had no way to approach the top in those days and see a more accessible economy today. And it is not just spending. Even the unit offers which F2P arena grinders can get are offering ways for those players to make significant progress. Now some people believe that arena grinding shouldn't be as good or better of a path to progress as other content driven paths. But that to is a matter of preference, not economic constraints.
I definitely see that side as well, and I very well could be falling victim to the rose colored lenses of the past, I just know I personally have completed almost all of the end game content except for some of carinas challenges and still have yet to get a single r5, I just feel as though event quests most difficult setting should be providing you with at some convoluted way to get close to a rank 5 6 star, right now thats not the case, even look at the newest story content 8.2. Exploration of that got you 1 T6CC and thats about it as far as rank 5 materials go. I just think we usually see a smaller gap between what is readily available in the rewards of eq or story content and whats available in the unit store. All I’m saying is it sucks to feel Kabam put a 100 dollar price tag on things that are beyond the reach of even the highest level of content
Last year, more or less, the complaint was that the next tier of progress was something you could purchase before you could earn in the game. The common complaint was that it was fine if spending gave you *more* but in-game content should get you there *first*.
Well, we've now seen the opposite. R5/R2 was something you could earn in game at the very very top first, before the big sales came along and flooded the game with them. It was theoretically possible to get there first, but spenders got a lot more later. The reaction now seems to be, spenders are getting too much: they are able to buy way more than we can earn in the game.
This paints the monetization team into a corner. If spending cannot get you there first, and spending cannot get a lot more, then what advantage can you buy in the game? And there is definitely a "top tier player skew" going on here. It seems to be acceptable if a medium tier player can spend money to shoot past other medium tier players, but if a spender shoots past a top tier end game player that's a completely different problem.
It unfortunately isn't because top tier end game players don't have a special position that protects them from the effects of monetization. Spending offers advantage everywhere.
In the end, the advantage of spending is ultimately time. Spending can get you there first, where you can enjoy that advantage before others catch up. Or spending can get you more, where you get more things faster, and then enjoy that advantage until others catch up. First or faster or both. You have to pick at least one. If it was you, which one would you pick? Does the first R3 come from some in-game content, and then the spenders get to have five of them when the next big sale comes around? Or does the first R3 come from spending, and everyone else has to wait for content to catch up?
While you're deciding, consider this. The J4 and CW sales represent the peak value that cash spending has in the game. Everything else everytime else has lower value. So when you peg the maximum value a spender can get from J4, consider what a moderate spender will have to settle for. Then consider what a moderate spender on any other day will have to settle for. Is that enough to support the game? What if we're wrong?
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
That's assuming spenders don't spend time on the game. But a lot of spenders spend time AND money while u complain about only spending time.
This argument tree can go on forever so to put it bluntly like someone said before, The offers are there for EVERYONE. If u choose to spend (whatever ur reasons) it's all on u. Just don't disparage those who do. U enjoy ur FTP and spenders will enjoy their spending. Peace and love to all.
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
I hate that saying the "time is money" because in most cases it is completely untrue. For time you spent on the game to be relevant to this saying, then you would need to be losing out on money that you would otherwise get had you not played the game or if you had used that time for making money (which no one works 24 hours a day).
For example if your sitting at home doing nothing (and you have no job or it's your off say) then NO time is not money as you are not losing any money from other activities to make this saying relevant.
But let's say you called off from work sick to play the game and you don't get paid sick days, then YES that saying is relevant in this unusual decision. Let's say you do get paid sick days then NO, that saying is t relevant.
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
I hate that saying the "time is money" because in most cases it is completely untrue. For time you spent on the game to be relevant to this saying, then you would need to be losing out on money that you would otherwise get had you not played the game or if you had used that time for making money (which no one works 24 hours a day).
For example if your sitting at home doing nothing (and you have no job or it's your off say) then NO time is not money as you are not losing any money from other activities to make this saying relevant.
But let's say you called off from work sick to play the game and you don't get paid sick days, then YES that saying is relevant in this unusual decision. Let's say you do get paid sick days then NO, that saying is t relevant.
Maybe not losing money but losing opportunities to make money. If you have no job and need money you probably shouldn't be home playing a game as if you need money on your off day you should probably be out doing side work not playing a game.
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
That depends. Where ever it is you are putting your time in, is it a place where Kabam can reach in and take some and use it to pay for the game's expenses and payroll?
If the answer is no, then no. You might be "spending" your time, but if Kabam isn't getting that time, you aren't spending it on them.
Time is not money. But even if it is, when I sell things for money I expect to actually receive the cash. If you want to buy those things with time, you have to give me that time. In a form I can then spend myself. Playing the game and calling that "spending time on the game" is like taking a picture of a hundred dollar bill and texting it to Kabam and expecting to get 3100 units for it.
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
That depends. Where ever it is you are putting your time in, is it a place where Kabam can reach in and take some and use it to pay for the game's expenses and payroll?
If the answer is no, then no. You might be "spending" your time, but if Kabam isn't getting that time, you aren't spending it on them.
Time is not money. But even if it is, when I sell things for money I expect to actually receive the cash. If you want to buy those things with time, you have to give me that time. In a form I can then spend myself. Playing the game and calling that "spending time on the game" is like taking a picture of a hundred dollar bill and texting it to Kabam and expecting to get 3100 units for it.
Kabam still benefits from having ftp players. As long as they're using our numbers to pitch downloads and player counts, they can put the work in to shrink the ftp-ptw gap. Of course we aren't giving them our money, but the game will obviously become unsustainable if they don't put the effort in to appeal to the 95-97% of the playerbase we make up, just as the game would be unsustainable if they didn't put the effort in to appeal to that 3-5% of spenders. But that's mainly just semantics, I think the only obvious truth is that the game obviously wouldn't become unsustainable if they just didn't throw that rank 5 gem in there.
Sure, time isn't money, but it is so crazy to me that I could apply to the shoe store down my street making 8 dollars an hour and buy a 4-5 gem in two days. Two months straight worth of gameplay couldn't get me that.
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
That depends. Where ever it is you are putting your time in, is it a place where Kabam can reach in and take some and use it to pay for the game's expenses and payroll?
If the answer is no, then no. You might be "spending" your time, but if Kabam isn't getting that time, you aren't spending it on them.
Time is not money. But even if it is, when I sell things for money I expect to actually receive the cash. If you want to buy those things with time, you have to give me that time. In a form I can then spend myself. Playing the game and calling that "spending time on the game" is like taking a picture of a hundred dollar bill and texting it to Kabam and expecting to get 3100 units for it.
Kabam still benefits from having ftp players. As long as they're using our numbers to pitch downloads and player counts, they can put the work in to shrink the ftp-ptw gap. Of course we aren't giving them our money, but the game will obviously become unsustainable if they don't put the effort in to appeal to the 95-97% of the playerbase we make up, just as the game would be unsustainable if they didn't put the effort in to appeal to that 3-5% of spenders. But that's mainly just semantics, I think the only obvious truth is that the game obviously wouldn't become unsustainable if they just didn't throw that rank 5 gem in there.
Sure, time isn't money, but it is so crazy to me that I could apply to the shoe store down my street making 8 dollars an hour and buy a 4-5 gem in two days. Two months straight worth of gameplay couldn't get me that.
So do you think 95-97% of this game is ftp? Also you had to have rank 4s to even buy the deal. Most people who bought these deals were already Paragon and put a lot of time into this game. I bought some of the deals been playing this game since 2016 and I'm not a whale just a casual spender. I already had 20 r4 and 2 r5s and 9 7* were you gonna catch me if I didn't buy these deals? I tend to believe from my experience in this game there's more casual spenders then ftp or whales.
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
That depends. Where ever it is you are putting your time in, is it a place where Kabam can reach in and take some and use it to pay for the game's expenses and payroll?
If the answer is no, then no. You might be "spending" your time, but if Kabam isn't getting that time, you aren't spending it on them.
Time is not money. But even if it is, when I sell things for money I expect to actually receive the cash. If you want to buy those things with time, you have to give me that time. In a form I can then spend myself. Playing the game and calling that "spending time on the game" is like taking a picture of a hundred dollar bill and texting it to Kabam and expecting to get 3100 units for it.
Kabam still benefits from having ftp players. As long as they're using our numbers to pitch downloads and player counts, they can put the work in to shrink the ftp-ptw gap. Of course we aren't giving them our money, but the game will obviously become unsustainable if they don't put the effort in to appeal to the 95-97% of the playerbase we make up, just as the game would be unsustainable if they didn't put the effort in to appeal to that 3-5% of spenders. But that's mainly just semantics, I think the only obvious truth is that the game obviously wouldn't become unsustainable if they just didn't throw that rank 5 gem in there.
Sure, time isn't money, but it is so crazy to me that I could apply to the shoe store down my street making 8 dollars an hour and buy a 4-5 gem in two days. Two months straight worth of gameplay couldn't get me that.
Netflix benefits from having a large subscriber base when it comes to negotiating contracts, but I still pay them, and they do not pay me for my viewing time.
"Kabam benefits from me being here" is the online gaming equivalent of telling a traffic cop that you pay their salary.
The game does a lot for free to play players. The game is extremely free to play friendly. But not just in terms of long term veteran free to play players. A brand new player can pick up the game *today* and still be a competitive player. They can reach the highest progression tiers without the benefit of years of accumulated resources. They can advance to the higher tiers of the game from a standing start. Sure, they might not be knocking off the eight year veteran whales, but there's very little ceiling on them.
When I look at the big picture, I don't see a game hostile to free to play players. Far from it. I see a game where free to play players can play at whatever pace they want, and progress proportional to their effort. Basically everything in the game is open to them. They can become end game caliber players with just moderate effort, skill, and time, and zero cash.
People keep talking about "shrinking the gap" between spenders and the free to play. But in one sense, that's nonsensical. The game is never going to add stuff only free to play players can get and spenders can't, so the gap between them can only grow, in terms of what offers and content inject into the game.
And yet when you actually stop and look around the game, you don't see wildly accelerating gaps between spenders and free to play. I recently saw DEW's account tour when his hit five million rating. He claims to have spent over $200k on his account in just three years. Its a great account. But when I look at it I do not see $200k more stuff than my account. Moreover, I do not see an account that won't be completely obsolete in a few years.
It is game inflation that in a global sense keeps shrinking the gap between spenders and free to play players. Game inflation doesn't directly target spenders, rather it deflates *everything* over time. That's why spenders are not allowed to compound their advantage over time. A $200k advantage in three years doesn't become a $400k advantage in six years. Rather, that $200k advantage becomes effectively meaningless in six years, and $400k in six years is mostly just another $200 in another three years.
Imagine an account that has $200k poured into it that stops spending. And imagine a brand new account started on the same day the whale stopped spending. What happens if we watch both accounts over time. If both players were reasonably active, and equally active, after a couple years the whale account wouldn't be all that much more powerful. It would still have an advantage to be sure, but that advantage would be highly attenuated. Where did it go? They are still both putting in the same effort into their accounts, so the whale should still have that extra $200k, right? Except they don't. If they don't keep spending, they don't get to keep that advantage. It eventually decays away.
That's what ultimately moderates spending in this game. Game inflation means all spending depreciates over time. And while Free to Play effort also depreciates, in a depreciating world higher value depreciates faster. Gaps become smaller. Everyone gets closer together.
The game allows spenders to spend a lot, because the game also has sufficient inflation to devalue all that spending on time scales of just a couple years. And that's why eight year veteran whales are not a million dollars ahead of eight year veteran free to play players. They are a few tens of thousands of dollars ahead. The other 900 grand plus they put into the game? Basically evaporated.
Yes, but for whatever reason....choice or limitations....not spending is going to yield less progress. The fact that people are bothered by it is something I'll never understand. Actually I do understand where it stems from, but it will never make logical sense to me why people keep comparing, as if it's supposed to mirror. What do you suppose people pay for? Specifically, we're talking about a major sale that takes place every year. They pay for access to what they don't get for free. Whether that's something that saves a little time, or a lot of time, that's what they're paying for. Once again, there is no competition between spenders and non-spenders. I get that game modes pit people against each other, but there is no keeping up with those spending thousands, without spending thousands. That's a reality in the game, and it's also a reality in life. Which is why I don't obsess about what others can afford that I can't in life. People spend more in a day than I make in a year, and yet we both live on the same earth just fine.
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
That depends. Where ever it is you are putting your time in, is it a place where Kabam can reach in and take some and use it to pay for the game's expenses and payroll?
If the answer is no, then no. You might be "spending" your time, but if Kabam isn't getting that time, you aren't spending it on them.
Time is not money. But even if it is, when I sell things for money I expect to actually receive the cash. If you want to buy those things with time, you have to give me that time. In a form I can then spend myself. Playing the game and calling that "spending time on the game" is like taking a picture of a hundred dollar bill and texting it to Kabam and expecting to get 3100 units for it.
Kabam still benefits from having ftp players. As long as they're using our numbers to pitch downloads and player counts, they can put the work in to shrink the ftp-ptw gap. Of course we aren't giving them our money, but the game will obviously become unsustainable if they don't put the effort in to appeal to the 95-97% of the playerbase we make up, just as the game would be unsustainable if they didn't put the effort in to appeal to that 3-5% of spenders. But that's mainly just semantics, I think the only obvious truth is that the game obviously wouldn't become unsustainable if they just didn't throw that rank 5 gem in there.
Sure, time isn't money, but it is so crazy to me that I could apply to the shoe store down my street making 8 dollars an hour and buy a 4-5 gem in two days. Two months straight worth of gameplay couldn't get me that.
Netflix benefits from having a large subscriber base when it comes to negotiating contracts, but I still pay them, and they do not pay me for my viewing time.
"Kabam benefits from me being here" is the online gaming equivalent of telling a traffic cop that you pay their salary.
True, but that's not what I said. I said that Kabam benefits from having 95-97% of the playerbase just like me being here. If a city lowers the speed limit on a highway to 3 miles per hour and tells everyone to just take the tolls, that'd be a much more comparable analogy.
Netflix also isn't comparable, since their subscriber count is that high despite the mandatory pricing. MCOC's numbers would not be as high as they are if the game was truly pay to play, and they're clearly very aware of that.
It seems like your overall point is that we're all gonna end up in the same place anyways. The game will continuously flood the economy, then dilute it. And yeah, I totally agree. That's why I'm not worried about these 4th of July deals being an issue in two years. I'm worried about these 4th of July deals being an issue today. Right now. I have spent the last three months grinding to establish my roster, as this is the first time in over 7 years that I have felt any sort of motivation to play and find my place in the game. And now, I'm finding players, in my alliance and otherwise, who were below me just last week have skyrocketed above me. Now, I don't expect it to stay that way. They still lack the experience, they're still at a lower progression title, and Kabam could easily make my account skyrocket by just making 20 million gold and a large chunk of ISO available throughout next months content. Kabam knows how the system works and I'm willing to bet they've already got a plan to mostly counteract the 4th of July sales without causing any problems at all.
But again, today, there is a problem. Today, I have to face these mostly inactive accounts that grew their account more in a single day than I possible could've in the past three months. Today, I'm not having fun. And of course I'm not gonna quit, because I know I've got something coming my way in the next couple of months. But why is this how they choose to run their economy? Inflate, dilute, inflate, dilute, inflate, dilute. Money spent quickly turns to nothing just as fast as time spent quickly turns to nothing. Nobody can claim consistency except the guy who pays 400 dollars a week just to keep his spot.
But of course, ftp players are the ones having their countless hours diluted in the blink of an eye. That's never gonna feel fine, no matter how you choose to word it.
I like playing this game. It's genuinely just so fun for me. So when I get rewards, I choose to earn them by playing the game. I just wouldn't have fun spending. So when I finish all of the content I can possibly complete for the month and then see players who completely avoid some modes absolutely crush my account in a day, it gets tiring. The way Kabam chooses to run their economy is flawed and could be much better, and the constant unhappiness among ftp and ptw players alike makes that pretty clear.
Comments
The problem as he said is that kabam seem to have put all their eggs in the BGs basket, and to compete in BGs it's all about roster. AQ/glory store hasn't ben properly updated in over 7 months, AW/loyalty the same. Black ISO is a bit of a waste of time.
Without free and/or casual spending players there are no whales (who would they compete with but themselves?). Without whales there is no game.
Kabam need to find a better balance than the one they struck this past weekend especially with the $99 deals. The impact was immediately felt in BGs in a season where there is no AW ,and AQ almost seems pointless based on the rewards.
You want a gap but one that encourages f2p and casual to keep competing and whales to keep spending. Where we are is a bit precarious.
Let's see what they do in the next couple months to address this imbalance.
4th of July tiered unit offers concern
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/340144/4th-of-july-tiered-unit-offers-concern#latest
48 hour timer on tiered offers
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/340196/48-hour-timer-on-tiered-offers#latest
The quality of the offers does widen the split between pure FTP and big spenders - whether that is a good, bad or indifferent thing, that's your perception.
Bringing religion into the debate and using it to try and defend your perspective on a mobile video game - my perspective is that you've lost the argument and this thread has run it's course.
But that's just my perception, as someone who is not FTP.
And in a healthy game environment, the space will be there for everyone to appreciate each other and what each players bring to the game. The game could not survive without big and casual spenders, and at the same time the game would struggle if there wasn't enough ftp in the space (imagine how much longer it would take to find a match in BG).
Of course spenders in game should have an advantage, it is well deserved, they pay for it. But at the same time, if one spending event could give any new (relatively) player, the same kind of progress (account size) that take players years to work toward (both spending and ftp), then maybe something should be review.
Let face where if you agreed or disagreed this thread clearly show how this event have divided players from both side, and that can't never be good for the game environment or community.
'Hope' is the only reason why anyone keep doing what they do, hope that they can stand a chance, hope that they could catch up. It might not have to be real, but just don't make it too obvious 🤣🤣🤣
I grinned 30k units for the July deal with a reasonable amount of time not crazy. I even felt bored sometimes because I finished arena grind so quickly that I have nothing else to do.
So feel grateful for what Kabam offered to you. My only concern is that the game move to 7* so quickly that in the near future they have to think about 8*.
It devalues the more important content. Especially if it puts more value on arena than other content ie. It teaches me if I have limited time I can get potentially better rewards by grinding arena for units than exploring end-game content such as Act 8 , everest content etc
ie. In an extreme case why bother exploring Act 8 if you get more reward for unit grinding. If so, then kabam put hours of work into making new Story content and it'll reduce in player importance, which is a shame as it deserves to get played, and personally I consider it more fun and varied to play than just grinding.
I guess it can all change in a week or 2 when the much needed Act 8.3 drops with (hopefully) mega rewards or a Glory store revamp etc.
I wonder if it's all an intentional timing thing as the game economy shifts : That kabam made the offers look great by holding back other rewards for a few months, then with an incoming store and quest update when the offers have cleared, everything falls back into balance as resources suddenly become more plentiful?
i'm no f2p, i actually did spend a couple odins on the deals myself, and got most, if not all of the unit deals on top of that, being a big arena grinder.
That being said, I'm also a map8 top 45 player, BGs alliance top 50 player, and a masters top10 player. Being in these three brackets for multiple seasons consecutively hasnt provided EVEN A FRACTION of what was offered in these deals. Playing the top game modes for a long time hasnt netted anything of this magnitude. If playing the game at the highest levels dont give these resources, why are random summoners able to drop cash and race upward for doing absolutely nothing?
That is where this sentiment is coming from. I have no problems of there being monetary benefits, my own account is multitudes smaller than those in my alliance, which includes some notable Youtubers. But being able to drop a few hundreds and race past what all gamemodes offer, in just a few minutes, left a bad taste in my mouth.
i'm no f2p, i actually did spend a couple odins on the deals myself, and got most, if not all of the unit deals on top of that, being a big arena grinder.
That being said, I'm also a map8 top 45 player, BGs alliance top 50 player, and a masters top10 player. Being in these three brackets for multiple seasons consecutively hasnt provided EVEN A FRACTION of what was offered in these deals. Playing the top game modes for a long time hasnt netted anything of this magnitude. If playing the game at the highest levels dont give these resources, why are random summoners able to drop cash and race upward for doing absolutely nothing?
That is where this sentiment is coming from. I have no problems of there being monetary benefits, my own account is multitudes smaller than those in my alliance, which includes some notable Youtubers. But being able to drop a few hundreds and race past what all gamemodes offer, in just a few minutes, left a bad taste in my mouth.
Nothing new here, P2W year by year has always been getting wider. This year more than ever has had more "solo spending events" Banquet, 7*/Paragon arguably, July 4th ones, and I feel like I'm missing one.
This was always going to be the direction we've been heading we've been promised a FTP friendly event coming soon, but even that may widen the gap further if it promotes spending further.
All I see that as is an indication the content will have more material in the near future.
The impact of that has been more drastic because of the absence of in-line-with-the-times updates in several game modes outside of BGs where the most focus in terms of rewards are, and where the roster gap is very influential.
But…can you really think of many offers that don’t have revenue as a primary driver? Granted, there may some that are more along the lines of “feelers,” but if revenue isn’t a major goal—especially for big event cash offers—then what is it?
And of course there are offer limits, in much the same way economies know they can’t print endless currency to solve poverty. The existence of limits doesn’t disprove revenue as a primary motivation—in fact, the existence of limits supports the primacy of revenue as a motivator because the *very smart people* who design offers understand that allowing unlimited buying of resources would likely kill the fowl that keeps laying the golden eggs that pay their salaries.
The real question is whether or not those very smart people were correct in their balancing of revenues/ramifications when they drew the parameters for this most recent round of offers.
Dr. Zola
And what Kabam did on this day for us ( majority of community)- NOTHING…and what now?….easy… a see that even I spend Kabam will do nothing for me-us…so- I will not spend anymore…lol… and if we - like me - stop to do that …. Lol…. It will hurt….
Well, we've now seen the opposite. R5/R2 was something you could earn in game at the very very top first, before the big sales came along and flooded the game with them. It was theoretically possible to get there first, but spenders got a lot more later. The reaction now seems to be, spenders are getting too much: they are able to buy way more than we can earn in the game.
This paints the monetization team into a corner. If spending cannot get you there first, and spending cannot get a lot more, then what advantage can you buy in the game? And there is definitely a "top tier player skew" going on here. It seems to be acceptable if a medium tier player can spend money to shoot past other medium tier players, but if a spender shoots past a top tier end game player that's a completely different problem.
It unfortunately isn't because top tier end game players don't have a special position that protects them from the effects of monetization. Spending offers advantage everywhere.
In the end, the advantage of spending is ultimately time. Spending can get you there first, where you can enjoy that advantage before others catch up. Or spending can get you more, where you get more things faster, and then enjoy that advantage until others catch up. First or faster or both. You have to pick at least one. If it was you, which one would you pick? Does the first R3 come from some in-game content, and then the spenders get to have five of them when the next big sale comes around? Or does the first R3 come from spending, and everyone else has to wait for content to catch up?
While you're deciding, consider this. The J4 and CW sales represent the peak value that cash spending has in the game. Everything else everytime else has lower value. So when you peg the maximum value a spender can get from J4, consider what a moderate spender will have to settle for. Then consider what a moderate spender on any other day will have to settle for. Is that enough to support the game? What if we're wrong?
This argument tree can go on forever so to put it bluntly like someone said before,
The offers are there for EVERYONE.
If u choose to spend (whatever ur reasons) it's all on u. Just don't disparage those who do. U enjoy ur FTP and spenders will enjoy their spending.
Peace and love to all.
For example if your sitting at home doing nothing (and you have no job or it's your off say) then NO time is not money as you are not losing any money from other activities to make this saying relevant.
But let's say you called off from work sick to play the game and you don't get paid sick days, then YES that saying is relevant in this unusual decision. Let's say you do get paid sick days then NO, that saying is t relevant.
If the answer is no, then no. You might be "spending" your time, but if Kabam isn't getting that time, you aren't spending it on them.
Time is not money. But even if it is, when I sell things for money I expect to actually receive the cash. If you want to buy those things with time, you have to give me that time. In a form I can then spend myself. Playing the game and calling that "spending time on the game" is like taking a picture of a hundred dollar bill and texting it to Kabam and expecting to get 3100 units for it.
Sure, time isn't money, but it is so crazy to me that I could apply to the shoe store down my street making 8 dollars an hour and buy a 4-5 gem in two days. Two months straight worth of gameplay couldn't get me that.
"Kabam benefits from me being here" is the online gaming equivalent of telling a traffic cop that you pay their salary.
The game does a lot for free to play players. The game is extremely free to play friendly. But not just in terms of long term veteran free to play players. A brand new player can pick up the game *today* and still be a competitive player. They can reach the highest progression tiers without the benefit of years of accumulated resources. They can advance to the higher tiers of the game from a standing start. Sure, they might not be knocking off the eight year veteran whales, but there's very little ceiling on them.
When I look at the big picture, I don't see a game hostile to free to play players. Far from it. I see a game where free to play players can play at whatever pace they want, and progress proportional to their effort. Basically everything in the game is open to them. They can become end game caliber players with just moderate effort, skill, and time, and zero cash.
People keep talking about "shrinking the gap" between spenders and the free to play. But in one sense, that's nonsensical. The game is never going to add stuff only free to play players can get and spenders can't, so the gap between them can only grow, in terms of what offers and content inject into the game.
And yet when you actually stop and look around the game, you don't see wildly accelerating gaps between spenders and free to play. I recently saw DEW's account tour when his hit five million rating. He claims to have spent over $200k on his account in just three years. Its a great account. But when I look at it I do not see $200k more stuff than my account. Moreover, I do not see an account that won't be completely obsolete in a few years.
It is game inflation that in a global sense keeps shrinking the gap between spenders and free to play players. Game inflation doesn't directly target spenders, rather it deflates *everything* over time. That's why spenders are not allowed to compound their advantage over time. A $200k advantage in three years doesn't become a $400k advantage in six years. Rather, that $200k advantage becomes effectively meaningless in six years, and $400k in six years is mostly just another $200 in another three years.
Imagine an account that has $200k poured into it that stops spending. And imagine a brand new account started on the same day the whale stopped spending. What happens if we watch both accounts over time. If both players were reasonably active, and equally active, after a couple years the whale account wouldn't be all that much more powerful. It would still have an advantage to be sure, but that advantage would be highly attenuated. Where did it go? They are still both putting in the same effort into their accounts, so the whale should still have that extra $200k, right? Except they don't. If they don't keep spending, they don't get to keep that advantage. It eventually decays away.
That's what ultimately moderates spending in this game. Game inflation means all spending depreciates over time. And while Free to Play effort also depreciates, in a depreciating world higher value depreciates faster. Gaps become smaller. Everyone gets closer together.
The game allows spenders to spend a lot, because the game also has sufficient inflation to devalue all that spending on time scales of just a couple years. And that's why eight year veteran whales are not a million dollars ahead of eight year veteran free to play players. They are a few tens of thousands of dollars ahead. The other 900 grand plus they put into the game? Basically evaporated.
What do you suppose people pay for? Specifically, we're talking about a major sale that takes place every year. They pay for access to what they don't get for free. Whether that's something that saves a little time, or a lot of time, that's what they're paying for.
Once again, there is no competition between spenders and non-spenders. I get that game modes pit people against each other, but there is no keeping up with those spending thousands, without spending thousands. That's a reality in the game, and it's also a reality in life. Which is why I don't obsess about what others can afford that I can't in life. People spend more in a day than I make in a year, and yet we both live on the same earth just fine.
Netflix also isn't comparable, since their subscriber count is that high despite the mandatory pricing. MCOC's numbers would not be as high as they are if the game was truly pay to play, and they're clearly very aware of that.
It seems like your overall point is that we're all gonna end up in the same place anyways. The game will continuously flood the economy, then dilute it. And yeah, I totally agree. That's why I'm not worried about these 4th of July deals being an issue in two years. I'm worried about these 4th of July deals being an issue today. Right now. I have spent the last three months grinding to establish my roster, as this is the first time in over 7 years that I have felt any sort of motivation to play and find my place in the game. And now, I'm finding players, in my alliance and otherwise, who were below me just last week have skyrocketed above me. Now, I don't expect it to stay that way. They still lack the experience, they're still at a lower progression title, and Kabam could easily make my account skyrocket by just making 20 million gold and a large chunk of ISO available throughout next months content. Kabam knows how the system works and I'm willing to bet they've already got a plan to mostly counteract the 4th of July sales without causing any problems at all.
But again, today, there is a problem. Today, I have to face these mostly inactive accounts that grew their account more in a single day than I possible could've in the past three months. Today, I'm not having fun. And of course I'm not gonna quit, because I know I've got something coming my way in the next couple of months. But why is this how they choose to run their economy? Inflate, dilute, inflate, dilute, inflate, dilute. Money spent quickly turns to nothing just as fast as time spent quickly turns to nothing. Nobody can claim consistency except the guy who pays 400 dollars a week just to keep his spot.
But of course, ftp players are the ones having their countless hours diluted in the blink of an eye. That's never gonna feel fine, no matter how you choose to word it.
I like playing this game. It's genuinely just so fun for me. So when I get rewards, I choose to earn them by playing the game. I just wouldn't have fun spending. So when I finish all of the content I can possibly complete for the month and then see players who completely avoid some modes absolutely crush my account in a day, it gets tiring. The way Kabam chooses to run their economy is flawed and could be much better, and the constant unhappiness among ftp and ptw players alike makes that pretty clear.