It seems like your overall point is that we're all gonna end up in the same place anyways.
No, that's not the point. The two main economic points are that one: in-game resources do not have permanent value and two: game inflation raises the floor over time.
In terms of the former, there's a difference between what the game economy is doing and "we're all going to end up in the same place." Imagine this was a thousand mile marathon race, and spenders could buy an hour riding in a car. That fifty mile advantage would be a more or less permanent advantage. A spender that got two hundred miles ahead would stay two hundred miles ahead throughout the race, barring you running faster than them. You could attempt to reduce that gap by outrunning them on foot, but that advantage they bought doesn't decrease on its own. Its a permanent advantage you can only try to nullify by building some counter-advantage of your own.
That's not what happens in this game. In this game, not only are we running forward, the entire map is shrinking. The map might be a thousand miles long today, but an hour later what used to be the edge of the map is now only five hundred miles away, and an additional five hundred miles is added to the end. When someone spends to get a two hundred mile advantage, that advantage shrinks constantly. In an hour they will be only a hundred miles ahead of me. In another hour they will only be fifty miles ahead of me. Five hours after the race began that two hundred mile advantage they bought at the start will have reduced to only six miles. Ten hours after the start of the race they will be just 350 yards ahead of me.
In terms of the latter, even if someone joins the race now, ten hours later, we might have been running for ten hours at, say, seven miles an hour, but the 70 miles of distance we've run with our feet has itself shrunk behind us to only a couple of miles. Someone who starts now will still be behind us, but not seventy miles behind, they would only be like three miles behind. To them, the amount they need to run to catch up with us seems a lot smaller than the distance we ran seems to us.
The fact that all leads shrink due to inflation means spending can have temporary benefits, but those benefits aren't allowed to stack up: they shrink over time. And the fact that inflation makes the race itself seem to contract over time means the race allows people to join long after the race starts and feel like they aren't so far behind that it is pointless. Both of these effects make the game much more friendly to F2P players than it might otherwise. And over long timescales, these two factors - resource inflow and game inflation - appear to me to be fairly well balanced. Game economy isn't hyperinflating, and game progress isn't overly deflating to the point of pointlessness. It isn't as easy as it sounds to land in the middle.
And all of this is separate from the fact that this is one of the only F2P games I've ever played or even heard of where F2P players can earn the games premium currency (in this case, units) in very large amounts (hundred of dollars a month) in an unrestricted manner (if you want to grind arena constantly, the game has few limits on how much you can grind it). Virtually none of the game's content is cash-gated. And F2P players that make it to the upper tiers of the game, say the top 5% are not super rare exceptions.
But why is this how they choose to run their economy? Inflate, dilute, inflate, dilute, inflate, dilute. Money spent quickly turns to nothing just as fast as time spent quickly turns to nothing. Nobody can claim consistency except the guy who pays 400 dollars a week just to keep his spot.
Because everyone does? Because that's the only way it works?
Kabam didn't invent any of this. I've been studying monetization since the literal dawn of the modern F2P microtransaction industry. I was there when MMOs transitioned from subscription to hybrid to F2P as the dominant system. This is just the way the industry learned, by trial and error, that players would most accept.
We vote with our actions. We, the game playing public, chose the winners and losers. F2P microtransaction supported monetization systems won by a landslide, and everyone else mostly died on the vine. The spenders wanted to spend and everyone else wanted the free lunch, and they chose to make this deal. And this is the way the deal worked best. And best was chosen by "which games attracted the most players with the largest revenue base."
Kabam didn't choose to run their game this way, any more than I chose which Gravity to study in college. This is just the way all games like this work, to varying degrees of success.
People give Kabam too much credit, ironically. They keep talking about Kabam like they are the only ones that do the things they do, when they are almost always just doing what everyone else does, changing the details but implementing the same systems as everyone else. The details matter, of course, but for the most part the details tend to generate good results - again, speaking specifically about monetization only.
It seems like your overall point is that we're all gonna end up in the same place anyways.
No, that's not the point. The two main economic points are that one: in-game resources do not have permanent value and two: game inflation raises the floor over time.
In terms of the former, there's a difference between what the game economy is doing and "we're all going to end up in the same place." Imagine this was a thousand mile marathon race, and spenders could buy an hour riding in a car. That fifty mile advantage would be a more or less permanent advantage. A spender that got two hundred miles ahead would stay two hundred miles ahead throughout the race, barring you running faster than them. You could attempt to reduce that gap by outrunning them on foot, but that advantage they bought doesn't decrease on its own. Its a permanent advantage you can only try to nullify by building some counter-advantage of your own.
That's not what happens in this game. In this game, not only are we running forward, the entire map is shrinking. The map might be a thousand miles long today, but an hour later what used to be the edge of the map is now only five hundred miles away, and an additional five hundred miles is added to the end. When someone spends to get a two hundred mile advantage, that advantage shrinks constantly. In an hour they will be only a hundred miles ahead of me. In another hour they will only be fifty miles ahead of me. Five hours after the race began that two hundred mile advantage they bought at the start will have reduced to only six miles. Ten hours after the start of the race they will be just 350 yards ahead of me.
In terms of the latter, even if someone joins the race now, ten hours later, we might have been running for ten hours at, say, seven miles an hour, but the 70 miles of distance we've run with our feet has itself shrunk behind us to only a couple of miles. Someone who starts now will still be behind us, but not seventy miles behind, they would only be like three miles behind. To them, the amount they need to run to catch up with us seems a lot smaller than the distance we ran seems to us.
The fact that all leads shrink due to inflation means spending can have temporary benefits, but those benefits aren't allowed to stack up: they shrink over time. And the fact that inflation makes the race itself seem to contract over time means the race allows people to join long after the race starts and feel like they aren't so far behind that it is pointless. Both of these effects make the game much more friendly to F2P players than it might otherwise. And over long timescales, these two factors - resource inflow and game inflation - appear to me to be fairly well balanced. Game economy isn't hyperinflating, and game progress isn't overly deflating to the point of pointlessness. It isn't as easy as it sounds to land in the middle.
And all of this is separate from the fact that this is one of the only F2P games I've ever played or even heard of where F2P players can earn the games premium currency (in this case, units) in very large amounts (hundred of dollars a month) in an unrestricted manner (if you want to grind arena constantly, the game has few limits on how much you can grind it). Virtually none of the game's content is cash-gated. And F2P players that make it to the upper tiers of the game, say the top 5% are not super rare exceptions.
Again, I get what you're saying, but you're leaving out part of your analogy. The race doesn't just shrink, it gets bigger. And when it does, that's when those car rides become even more efficient. The race goes on forever. When it shrinks, those that paid their way to the front are once again competing with those that didn't. When it grows, those that are willing to pay their way have once again gained a tremendous lead. If you don't care about having the most efficient car ride, you can just never get out and you'll be in the lead at all times.
It would be extremely easy to land in the middle, and I imagine you're aware of that. It just wouldn't be as profitable. Kabam obviously isn't doing these deals in hopes to break even, they're doing it to increase the already pretty damn high profit.
Can anyone join today and catch up pretty quick for no money at all? Hell yeah. But what happens when the map grows? What happens when they see the runner who was just miles behind them suddenly rocket past them? Are they supposed to just take it to the chest, say they knew they were never gonna win anyways and pretend it didn't happen? Obviously not. They'll go to the race organizers and say "hey, if you're gonna let people buy their way to the front, can you at least provide some water?" And that's when they slap a $6 price tag on a water bottle and put it up for sale. And that's when the race becomes a whole lot less friendly.
But why is this how they choose to run their economy? Inflate, dilute, inflate, dilute, inflate, dilute. Money spent quickly turns to nothing just as fast as time spent quickly turns to nothing. Nobody can claim consistency except the guy who pays 400 dollars a week just to keep his spot.
Because everyone does? Because that's the only way it works?
Kabam didn't invent any of this. I've been studying monetization since the literal dawn of the modern F2P microtransaction industry. I was there when MMOs transitioned from subscription to hybrid to F2P as the dominant system. This is just the way the industry learned, by trial and error, that players would most accept.
We vote with our actions. We, the game playing public, chose the winners and losers. F2P microtransaction supported monetization systems won by a landslide, and everyone else mostly died on the vine. The spenders wanted to spend and everyone else wanted the free lunch, and they chose to make this deal. And this is the way the deal worked best. And best was chosen by "which games attracted the most players with the largest revenue base."
Kabam didn't choose to run their game this way, any more than I chose which Gravity to study in college. This is just the way all games like this work, to varying degrees of success.
People give Kabam too much credit, ironically. They keep talking about Kabam like they are the only ones that do the things they do, when they are almost always just doing what everyone else does, changing the details but implementing the same systems as everyone else. The details matter, of course, but for the most part the details tend to generate good results - again, speaking specifically about monetization only.
Most of the MMOs you're speaking of have much more complicated economies and even gameplay. Games like Diablo, WoW, and RuneScape do have pretty similar tactics, but they work because ftp and ptw literally just do not compete on the same level. They don't have to face players with numbers tied to their rosters and immediately know that they don't stand a chance.
Yes, Kabam does what everyone else does, just not as well.
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
I hate that saying the "time is money" because in most cases it is completely untrue. For time you spent on the game to be relevant to this saying, then you would need to be losing out on money that you would otherwise get had you not played the game or if you had used that time for making money (which no one works 24 hours a day).
For example if your sitting at home doing nothing (and you have no job or it's your off say) then NO time is not money as you are not losing any money from other activities to make this saying relevant.
But let's say you called off from work sick to play the game and you don't get paid sick days, then YES that saying is relevant in this unusual decision. Let's say you do get paid sick days then NO, that saying is t relevant.
Maybe not losing money but losing opportunities to make money. If you have no job and need money you probably shouldn't be home playing a game as if you need money on your off day you should probably be out doing side work not playing a game.
Do you not sleep since you are losing money in the wasted time?
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
I hate that saying the "time is money" because in most cases it is completely untrue. For time you spent on the game to be relevant to this saying, then you would need to be losing out on money that you would otherwise get had you not played the game or if you had used that time for making money (which no one works 24 hours a day).
For example if your sitting at home doing nothing (and you have no job or it's your off say) then NO time is not money as you are not losing any money from other activities to make this saying relevant.
But let's say you called off from work sick to play the game and you don't get paid sick days, then YES that saying is relevant in this unusual decision. Let's say you do get paid sick days then NO, that saying is t relevant.
Maybe not losing money but losing opportunities to make money. If you have no job and need money you probably shouldn't be home playing a game as if you need money on your off day you should probably be out doing side work not playing a game.
Do you not sleep since you are losing money in the wasted time?
Yeah I don't sleep at all smh. I also don't grind a moble game for hours on end everyday cause I can't afford to spend a couple hundred dollars. I also don't come on the fourms and cry about I can't compete against the whales when in actuality I was never really competing against the whales.
These sales do feel kind of like a spit in the face to free to play. I've been paragon since like a month after it came out. Been slowly working away getting t6cc to get my first rank 5, still haven't I'm very close, and now you can just buy like 4+ instantly. Those materials are way too scarce outside of high level wars which I just don't have the time to play. There's a measly amount from battlegrounds which I don't enjoy at all. Other than that there's next to nothing. I'm not saying don't put those offers in the game for the payers just make the materials a bit more common so there's actually a slight degree of balance
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
I hate that saying the "time is money" because in most cases it is completely untrue. For time you spent on the game to be relevant to this saying, then you would need to be losing out on money that you would otherwise get had you not played the game or if you had used that time for making money (which no one works 24 hours a day).
For example if your sitting at home doing nothing (and you have no job or it's your off say) then NO time is not money as you are not losing any money from other activities to make this saying relevant.
But let's say you called off from work sick to play the game and you don't get paid sick days, then YES that saying is relevant in this unusual decision. Let's say you do get paid sick days then NO, that saying is t relevant.
Maybe not losing money but losing opportunities to make money. If you have no job and need money you probably shouldn't be home playing a game as if you need money on your off day you should probably be out doing side work not playing a game.
Do you not sleep since you are losing money in the wasted time?
Yeah I don't sleep at all smh. I also don't grind a moble game for hours on end everyday cause I can't afford to spend a couple hundred dollars. I also don't come on the fourms and cry about I can't compete against the whales when in actuality I was never really competing against the whales.
nobody is competing against the whales... when did I say that? also, i like your assumption that those who dont spend, dont have jobs at all and are sitting at home playing a game.
I bought 5 4-5 gems and haven't used any of them. I've been in GC for a while with 1 EOP 6r5, beating accounts with 7r2 and 6r5s. Kabam has done a fantastic job of making good play much more worthwhile than just nuking champs.
In nuke metas, I cannot compete but in difficult metas, I do just fine.
If you can't beat certain people, you won't beat them with 4 more rank 5s in your deck...
I bought 5 4-5 gems and haven't used any of them. I've been in GC for a while with 1 EOP 6r5, beating accounts with 7r2 and 6r5s. Kabam has done a fantastic job of making good play much more worthwhile than just nuking champs.
In nuke metas, I cannot compete but in difficult metas, I do just fine.
If you can't beat certain people, you won't beat them with 4 more rank 5s in your deck...
The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But. The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.
Is this still a game?
Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".
In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.
Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.
If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?
This is such a ridiculous complain.....
Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.
So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.
Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
I hate that saying the "time is money" because in most cases it is completely untrue. For time you spent on the game to be relevant to this saying, then you would need to be losing out on money that you would otherwise get had you not played the game or if you had used that time for making money (which no one works 24 hours a day).
For example if your sitting at home doing nothing (and you have no job or it's your off say) then NO time is not money as you are not losing any money from other activities to make this saying relevant.
But let's say you called off from work sick to play the game and you don't get paid sick days, then YES that saying is relevant in this unusual decision. Let's say you do get paid sick days then NO, that saying is t relevant.
Maybe not losing money but losing opportunities to make money. If you have no job and need money you probably shouldn't be home playing a game as if you need money on your off day you should probably be out doing side work not playing a game.
Do you not sleep since you are losing money in the wasted time?
Yeah I don't sleep at all smh. I also don't grind a moble game for hours on end everyday cause I can't afford to spend a couple hundred dollars. I also don't come on the fourms and cry about I can't compete against the whales when in actuality I was never really competing against the whales.
nobody is competing against the whales... when did I say that? also, i like your assumption that those who dont spend, dont have jobs at all and are sitting at home playing a game.
This whole thread is about complaining about deals. When did I say ftp doesn't have jobs and sit at home?
But why is this how they choose to run their economy? Inflate, dilute, inflate, dilute, inflate, dilute. Money spent quickly turns to nothing just as fast as time spent quickly turns to nothing. Nobody can claim consistency except the guy who pays 400 dollars a week just to keep his spot.
Because everyone does? Because that's the only way it works?
Kabam didn't invent any of this. I've been studying monetization since the literal dawn of the modern F2P microtransaction industry. I was there when MMOs transitioned from subscription to hybrid to F2P as the dominant system. This is just the way the industry learned, by trial and error, that players would most accept.
We vote with our actions. We, the game playing public, chose the winners and losers. F2P microtransaction supported monetization systems won by a landslide, and everyone else mostly died on the vine. The spenders wanted to spend and everyone else wanted the free lunch, and they chose to make this deal. And this is the way the deal worked best. And best was chosen by "which games attracted the most players with the largest revenue base."
Kabam didn't choose to run their game this way, any more than I chose which Gravity to study in college. This is just the way all games like this work, to varying degrees of success.
People give Kabam too much credit, ironically. They keep talking about Kabam like they are the only ones that do the things they do, when they are almost always just doing what everyone else does, changing the details but implementing the same systems as everyone else. The details matter, of course, but for the most part the details tend to generate good results - again, speaking specifically about monetization only.
Most of the MMOs you're speaking of have much more complicated economies and even gameplay. Games like Diablo, WoW, and RuneScape do have pretty similar tactics, but they work because ftp and ptw literally just do not compete on the same level. They don't have to face players with numbers tied to their rosters and immediately know that they don't stand a chance.
Yes, Kabam does what everyone else does, just not as well.
Actually, I would say literally the opposite. It isn't that these monetization strategies only happen to work with MMOs because they have special properties that make them work. I would say if they work in those environments, they will work anywhere. In fact, the monetization systems that existed during the hybrid transition phase were out of necessity much more complex and situationally encompassing than any mobile game I've seen. Details are different, but I would say anyone who went through that period of time will be able to understand any monetization system in any mobile game today as being an evolved subset of those days.
The idea that MMOs did not have to face PvP related monetization issues is, I think, dramatically under-representing that particular game space. There are MMOs that are far more PvP-oriented than MCOC is, or will ever be, or could ever possibly be. MCOC is "PvP-lite" compared to PvP-oriented MMOs, much less games outside the MMO space that are also PvP-focused and also F2P monetized.
Whether Kabam does this better or worse when it comes to monetization has a subjective component to be sure. But what I can say is this: if there was another game out there that did it better, I would most likely be playing it instead. For me, the balance between gameplay progression and monetization is one of the key features by which I measure a game's attractiveness to me, as I would classify myself as a resource management-style player. For players like me, combat is what we do to pass the time in between managing resources in the account. Game economy and game monetization *is* the game. Marvel brought me here, the game's overall resource economy kept me here.
There is an objective component to this as well, but honestly that's the sort of discussion that I think only works in a classroom over blackboards or in a bar over pitchers of beer.
But why is this how they choose to run their economy? Inflate, dilute, inflate, dilute, inflate, dilute. Money spent quickly turns to nothing just as fast as time spent quickly turns to nothing. Nobody can claim consistency except the guy who pays 400 dollars a week just to keep his spot.
Because everyone does? Because that's the only way it works?
Kabam didn't invent any of this. I've been studying monetization since the literal dawn of the modern F2P microtransaction industry. I was there when MMOs transitioned from subscription to hybrid to F2P as the dominant system. This is just the way the industry learned, by trial and error, that players would most accept.
We vote with our actions. We, the game playing public, chose the winners and losers. F2P microtransaction supported monetization systems won by a landslide, and everyone else mostly died on the vine. The spenders wanted to spend and everyone else wanted the free lunch, and they chose to make this deal. And this is the way the deal worked best. And best was chosen by "which games attracted the most players with the largest revenue base."
Kabam didn't choose to run their game this way, any more than I chose which Gravity to study in college. This is just the way all games like this work, to varying degrees of success.
People give Kabam too much credit, ironically. They keep talking about Kabam like they are the only ones that do the things they do, when they are almost always just doing what everyone else does, changing the details but implementing the same systems as everyone else. The details matter, of course, but for the most part the details tend to generate good results - again, speaking specifically about monetization only.
Most of the MMOs you're speaking of have much more complicated economies and even gameplay. Games like Diablo, WoW, and RuneScape do have pretty similar tactics, but they work because ftp and ptw literally just do not compete on the same level. They don't have to face players with numbers tied to their rosters and immediately know that they don't stand a chance.
Yes, Kabam does what everyone else does, just not as well.
Actually, I would say literally the opposite. It isn't that these monetization strategies only happen to work with MMOs because they have special properties that make them work. I would say if they work in those environments, they will work anywhere. In fact, the monetization systems that existed during the hybrid transition phase were out of necessity much more complex and situationally encompassing than any mobile game I've seen. Details are different, but I would say anyone who went through that period of time will be able to understand any monetization system in any mobile game today as being an evolved subset of those days.
The idea that MMOs did not have to face PvP related monetization issues is, I think, dramatically under-representing that particular game space. There are MMOs that are far more PvP-oriented than MCOC is, or will ever be, or could ever possibly be. MCOC is "PvP-lite" compared to PvP-oriented MMOs, much less games outside the MMO space that are also PvP-focused and also F2P monetized.
Whether Kabam does this better or worse when it comes to monetization has a subjective component to be sure. But what I can say is this: if there was another game out there that did it better, I would most likely be playing it instead. For me, the balance between gameplay progression and monetization is one of the key features by which I measure a game's attractiveness to me, as I would classify myself as a resource management-style player. For players like me, combat is what we do to pass the time in between managing resources in the account. Game economy and game monetization *is* the game. Marvel brought me here, the game's overall resource economy kept me here.
There is an objective component to this as well, but honestly that's the sort of discussion that I think only works in a classroom over blackboards or in a bar over pitchers of beer.
I believe it's an objective fact that the economy built to work in one system will not work in every system. Without any real examples, I can't tell you why they worked in the MMOs you're thinking of, but I can tell you why they don't work here.
In MCOC's economy, the benefits of one player directly equal the disadvantages of another. Because of Battlegrounds, deals like these directly correlate to some players' win rates dropping.
MCOC just isn't complex enough for these deals to not have as big of an impact. In a game like WoW, sure I could buy the shiny new sword that outranks every item under my belt, but it doesn't work well with my class. Or maybe it isn't fast enough for my speed build, or maybe it doesn't provide enough magic damage for my spell build. Maybe I need more crit damage, or this or that, there are a thousand ways the item wouldn't be valuable to me. And even if I end up facing a player with the same build as mine, but better, it won't be the singular reason that I lose. In MCOC, you're facing one player who has objectively similar but better equipment in the form of champions. As long as the gameplay pushes that divide, these deals will continue to directly impact players who choose not to take advantage of them in a negative way. That's why Kabam's economy doesn't work nearly as well as the MMOs you're referring to.
I'm sure you do really enjoy MCOC's resource economy, because it is built to benefit you and directly impact those below you.
I bought 5 4-5 gems and haven't used any of them. I've been in GC for a while with 1 EOP 6r5, beating accounts with 7r2 and 6r5s. Kabam has done a fantastic job of making good play much more worthwhile than just nuking champs.
In nuke metas, I cannot compete but in difficult metas, I do just fine.
If you can't beat certain people, you won't beat them with 4 more rank 5s in your deck...
Ok, then take out your only 6r5 and all your 6r4s from your deck. Put only 6* r3, or even better swift to a a full 5* deck. Because you know, if you can’t beat certain people, you won’t beat them with more higher ranked champions in your deck 😂 What an idiotic logic to try to apply it on a roster based game’s, competitive head to head mode 🤷♂️
I'm sure you do really enjoy MCOC's resource economy, because it is built to benefit you and directly impact those below you.
Well, if we're going there, I'm sure the reason you don't like it is because it isn't customized to your tastes, and discussing it further would be counterproductive when you lack the foundation to discuss it on a sufficiently informed and nuanced level.
I'm sure you do really enjoy MCOC's resource economy, because it is built to benefit you and directly impact those below you.
Well, if we're going there, I'm sure the reason you don't like it is because it isn't customized to your tastes, and discussing it further would be counterproductive when you lack the foundation to discuss it on a sufficiently informed and nuanced level.
We get it DNA, you got a good education. That doesn't mean that the people around you are too dumb (or in your more corporate terms, lacking foundation) to discuss it with you. The fact that you're someone meant to assist the forums and are willing to say things like that, is deeply upsetting. If you don't believe you can discuss it on a nuanced level, then you can find your way out of the conversation without running to insults.
I'm the average ftp. I'm the person suffering from Kabam's failure within the economy. The fact that you believe I lack foundation is not due to my understanding, but rather your own.
I'm sure you do really enjoy MCOC's resource economy, because it is built to benefit you and directly impact those below you.
Well, if we're going there, I'm sure the reason you don't like it is because it isn't customized to your tastes, and discussing it further would be counterproductive when you lack the foundation to discuss it on a sufficiently informed and nuanced level.
We get it DNA, you got a good education. That doesn't mean that the people around you are too dumb (or in your more corporate terms, lacking foundation) to discuss it with you. The fact that you're someone meant to assist the forums and are willing to say things like that, is deeply upsetting. If you don't believe you can discuss it on a nuanced level, then you can find your way out of the conversation without running to insults.
I'm the average ftp. I'm the person suffering from Kabam's failure within the economy. The fact that you believe I lack foundation is not due to my understanding, but rather your own.
You're the one who went the player, not the ball.
Fact is * Without BGs this wouldn't be such an issue. * Without R5/6 or R2/7 rank ups deals would have been worthless to the biggest spenders. * If you want to be on the bleeding edge of the game you need to be a customer. That is the way.
1. F2F are complaining that the deals are too good, but they still didn't buy them despite there is no restriction for them to buy. 2. They want more free stuffs. 3. They are saying that they have no access to the resources. In fact, Kabam has improved BG store and other rewards to help them. (But still not in their satisfaction) 4. They may believe that the game could live on without money to keep the light on and salary to Kabam employee. 5. They don't show any appreciation towards people who buy the deals to keep the light on, but complaining that they have too good deal and the accounts will be too divided.
Then, the game economy BS has been raised. Bottom line is FTP wants more free stuffs, but don't want people who pay get something too good.
FTP still want to enjoy good quality game but believe Kabam or the whales could farm free money (like we farm free units in game) to keep the light on. Probably, they also think that Kabam employee don't need any food for their life. Kabam employee could just breath to survive.
P.S. Most of YouTuber are big whales not only by their own money or earning though YouTube but also members donation. They need to balance their fan base to say something that is politically correct.
I'm sure you do really enjoy MCOC's resource economy, because it is built to benefit you and directly impact those below you.
Well, if we're going there, I'm sure the reason you don't like it is because it isn't customized to your tastes, and discussing it further would be counterproductive when you lack the foundation to discuss it on a sufficiently informed and nuanced level.
We get it DNA, you got a good education. That doesn't mean that the people around you are too dumb (or in your more corporate terms, lacking foundation) to discuss it with you. The fact that you're someone meant to assist the forums and are willing to say things like that, is deeply upsetting. If you don't believe you can discuss it on a nuanced level, then you can find your way out of the conversation without running to insults.
I'm the average ftp. I'm the person suffering from Kabam's failure within the economy. The fact that you believe I lack foundation is not due to my understanding, but rather your own.
You're the one who went the player, not the ball.
Fact is * Without BGs this wouldn't be such an issue. * Without R5/6 or R2/7 rank ups deals would have been worthless to the biggest spenders. * If you want to be on the bleeding edge of the game you need to be a customer. That is the way.
I didn't go for the player, I mentioned player perspectives. Nobody can comment on whether the current state of the economy is at all entertaining or interesting for a group of players they're not at all apart of. Then I'm told that I'm lacking foundation. DNA isn't at all aware of my foundation.
And I completely agree with 2/3 of your points. If BGs didn't exist there'd be no need to change. But now that it exists as a permanent mode, there is an issue. I completely believe that they could solve the issues by simple making more restrictive metas. I wouldn't care if someone ranked up Rintrah during the electric defense meta, because a rank 5 Rintrah would be worse than a rank 3 Red Skull for that meta.
I also agree that I will never be on the bleeding edge. I don't think I should be. My goal is to enjoy the game and earn the rewards purely through content, so I don't spend. But the current state of the economy is not enjoyable for players who don't spend. As long as that's the case, we have every right to discuss it.
I just disagree with the idea that Rank 5's and Rank 2's are the only thing spenders have to gain from spending. It's the only thing that ftp players can't get that spenders can get multiple of, but even rank 3 gems are more than enough to set a wide gap between Thronebreaker spenders and non spenders, especially in BGs. Hell, a large amount of gold is the only thing I'm looking for right now, and spenders have unlimited avenues to obtain that. While I've done every piece of seasonal/monthly content I can get my hands on and am just stuck spending all of my Glory on 200k gold every reset. It's just not fun, but I expect August to be a pretty damn good month for ftp players, so of course I'll be around then.
I'm sure you do really enjoy MCOC's resource economy, because it is built to benefit you and directly impact those below you.
Well, if we're going there, I'm sure the reason you don't like it is because it isn't customized to your tastes, and discussing it further would be counterproductive when you lack the foundation to discuss it on a sufficiently informed and nuanced level.
We get it DNA, you got a good education. That doesn't mean that the people around you are too dumb (or in your more corporate terms, lacking foundation) to discuss it with you. The fact that you're someone meant to assist the forums and are willing to say things like that, is deeply upsetting. If you don't believe you can discuss it on a nuanced level, then you can find your way out of the conversation without running to insults.
I'm the average ftp. I'm the person suffering from Kabam's failure within the economy. The fact that you believe I lack foundation is not due to my understanding, but rather your own.
You're the one who went the player, not the ball.
Fact is * Without BGs this wouldn't be such an issue. * Without R5/6 or R2/7 rank ups deals would have been worthless to the biggest spenders. * If you want to be on the bleeding edge of the game you need to be a customer. That is the way.
Nobody can comment on whether the current state of the economy is at all entertaining or interesting for a group of players they're not at all apart of.
I just disagree with the idea that Rank 5's and Rank 2's are the only thing spenders have to gain from spending.
I'm sure you do really enjoy MCOC's resource economy, because it is built to benefit you and directly impact those below you.
Well, if we're going there, I'm sure the reason you don't like it is because it isn't customized to your tastes, and discussing it further would be counterproductive when you lack the foundation to discuss it on a sufficiently informed and nuanced level.
We get it DNA, you got a good education. That doesn't mean that the people around you are too dumb (or in your more corporate terms, lacking foundation) to discuss it with you. The fact that you're someone meant to assist the forums and are willing to say things like that, is deeply upsetting. If you don't believe you can discuss it on a nuanced level, then you can find your way out of the conversation without running to insults.
I'm the average ftp. I'm the person suffering from Kabam's failure within the economy. The fact that you believe I lack foundation is not due to my understanding, but rather your own.
You're the one who went the player, not the ball.
Fact is * Without BGs this wouldn't be such an issue. * Without R5/6 or R2/7 rank ups deals would have been worthless to the biggest spenders. * If you want to be on the bleeding edge of the game you need to be a customer. That is the way.
Nobody can comment on whether the current state of the economy is at all entertaining or interesting for a group of players they're not at all apart of.
I just disagree with the idea that Rank 5's and Rank 2's are the only thing spenders have to gain from spending.
?
"at all entertaining or interesting" Nobody can comment on the enjoyment of other players, but everybody knows what items are in the deals. Everybody can comment on that.
I'm sure you do really enjoy MCOC's resource economy, because it is built to benefit you and directly impact those below you.
Well, if we're going there, I'm sure the reason you don't like it is because it isn't customized to your tastes, and discussing it further would be counterproductive when you lack the foundation to discuss it on a sufficiently informed and nuanced level.
We get it DNA, you got a good education. That doesn't mean that the people around you are too dumb (or in your more corporate terms, lacking foundation) to discuss it with you. The fact that you're someone meant to assist the forums and are willing to say things like that, is deeply upsetting. If you don't believe you can discuss it on a nuanced level, then you can find your way out of the conversation without running to insults.
I'm the average ftp. I'm the person suffering from Kabam's failure within the economy. The fact that you believe I lack foundation is not due to my understanding, but rather your own.
You're the one who went the player, not the ball.
Fact is * Without BGs this wouldn't be such an issue. * Without R5/6 or R2/7 rank ups deals would have been worthless to the biggest spenders. * If you want to be on the bleeding edge of the game you need to be a customer. That is the way.
Nobody can comment on whether the current state of the economy is at all entertaining or interesting for a group of players they're not at all apart of.
I just disagree with the idea that Rank 5's and Rank 2's are the only thing spenders have to gain from spending.
?
"at all entertaining or interesting" Nobody can comment on the enjoyment of other players, but everybody knows what items are in the deals. Everybody can comment on that.
So you can comment on the deals but not their worth to a group of players that you're not a part of? I'm confused.
I'm sure you do really enjoy MCOC's resource economy, because it is built to benefit you and directly impact those below you.
Well, if we're going there, I'm sure the reason you don't like it is because it isn't customized to your tastes, and discussing it further would be counterproductive when you lack the foundation to discuss it on a sufficiently informed and nuanced level.
We get it DNA, you got a good education. That doesn't mean that the people around you are too dumb (or in your more corporate terms, lacking foundation) to discuss it with you. The fact that you're someone meant to assist the forums and are willing to say things like that, is deeply upsetting. If you don't believe you can discuss it on a nuanced level, then you can find your way out of the conversation without running to insults.
I'm the average ftp. I'm the person suffering from Kabam's failure within the economy. The fact that you believe I lack foundation is not due to my understanding, but rather your own.
You're the one who went the player, not the ball.
Fact is * Without BGs this wouldn't be such an issue. * Without R5/6 or R2/7 rank ups deals would have been worthless to the biggest spenders. * If you want to be on the bleeding edge of the game you need to be a customer. That is the way.
Nobody can comment on whether the current state of the economy is at all entertaining or interesting for a group of players they're not at all apart of.
I just disagree with the idea that Rank 5's and Rank 2's are the only thing spenders have to gain from spending.
?
"at all entertaining or interesting" Nobody can comment on the enjoyment of other players, but everybody knows what items are in the deals. Everybody can comment on that.
So you can comment on the deals but not their worth to a group of players that you're not a part of? I'm confused.
If you're trying to have a discussion, we can do that, but it looks like you're really focused on this one thing. I made multiple other points, comment on those.
I'm saying nobody can comment on the enjoyment of another player. Your point is that rank 5's and rank 2's are the only thing spenders had to gain, which is just objectively not true. Look at the deals, there are other things there. I don't see how your point relates at all to enjoyment, which is the only thing I believe players cannot comment on without being made aware of the scenario.
I'm sure you do really enjoy MCOC's resource economy, because it is built to benefit you and directly impact those below you.
Well, if we're going there, I'm sure the reason you don't like it is because it isn't customized to your tastes, and discussing it further would be counterproductive when you lack the foundation to discuss it on a sufficiently informed and nuanced level.
We get it DNA, you got a good education. That doesn't mean that the people around you are too dumb (or in your more corporate terms, lacking foundation) to discuss it with you. The fact that you're someone meant to assist the forums and are willing to say things like that, is deeply upsetting. If you don't believe you can discuss it on a nuanced level, then you can find your way out of the conversation without running to insults.
I'm the average ftp. I'm the person suffering from Kabam's failure within the economy. The fact that you believe I lack foundation is not due to my understanding, but rather your own.
You're the one who went the player, not the ball.
Fact is * Without BGs this wouldn't be such an issue. * Without R5/6 or R2/7 rank ups deals would have been worthless to the biggest spenders. * If you want to be on the bleeding edge of the game you need to be a customer. That is the way.
Nobody can comment on whether the current state of the economy is at all entertaining or interesting for a group of players they're not at all apart of.
I just disagree with the idea that Rank 5's and Rank 2's are the only thing spenders have to gain from spending.
?
"at all entertaining or interesting" Nobody can comment on the enjoyment of other players, but everybody knows what items are in the deals. Everybody can comment on that.
So you can comment on the deals but not their worth to a group of players that you're not a part of? I'm confused.
If you're trying to have a discussion, we can do that, but it looks like you're really focused on this one thing. I made multiple other points, comment on those.
I'm saying nobody can comment on the enjoyment of another player. Your point is that rank 5's and rank 2's are the only thing spenders had to gain, which is just objectively not true. Look at the deals, there are other things there. I don't see how your point relates at all to enjoyment, which is the only thing I believe players cannot comment on without being made aware of the scenario.
I think you're arguing from the wrong direction.
You're say that the deals have increased roster strength of spenders which give them an advantage in BGs.
The problem isn't the deals. They have to increase roster strength, otherwise nobody buys them. If nobody bought them then that would break the game economics, as in why would KABAM bother.
The problem is how much roster strength affects your chance of winnings in BGs. I would agree its too big of a factor. The solution isn't paring back the deals, its fixing Battlegrounds to reduce or eliminate that advantage. I don't have a solution for that.
I'm sure you do really enjoy MCOC's resource economy, because it is built to benefit you and directly impact those below you.
Well, if we're going there, I'm sure the reason you don't like it is because it isn't customized to your tastes, and discussing it further would be counterproductive when you lack the foundation to discuss it on a sufficiently informed and nuanced level.
We get it DNA, you got a good education. That doesn't mean that the people around you are too dumb (or in your more corporate terms, lacking foundation) to discuss it with you. The fact that you're someone meant to assist the forums and are willing to say things like that, is deeply upsetting. If you don't believe you can discuss it on a nuanced level, then you can find your way out of the conversation without running to insults.
I'm the average ftp. I'm the person suffering from Kabam's failure within the economy. The fact that you believe I lack foundation is not due to my understanding, but rather your own.
You're the one who went the player, not the ball.
Fact is * Without BGs this wouldn't be such an issue. * Without R5/6 or R2/7 rank ups deals would have been worthless to the biggest spenders. * If you want to be on the bleeding edge of the game you need to be a customer. That is the way.
Nobody can comment on whether the current state of the economy is at all entertaining or interesting for a group of players they're not at all apart of.
I just disagree with the idea that Rank 5's and Rank 2's are the only thing spenders have to gain from spending.
?
"at all entertaining or interesting" Nobody can comment on the enjoyment of other players, but everybody knows what items are in the deals. Everybody can comment on that.
So you can comment on the deals but not their worth to a group of players that you're not a part of? I'm confused.
If you're trying to have a discussion, we can do that, but it looks like you're really focused on this one thing. I made multiple other points, comment on those.
I'm saying nobody can comment on the enjoyment of another player. Your point is that rank 5's and rank 2's are the only thing spenders had to gain, which is just objectively not true. Look at the deals, there are other things there. I don't see how your point relates at all to enjoyment, which is the only thing I believe players cannot comment on without being made aware of the scenario.
I think you're arguing from the wrong direction.
You're say that the deals have increased roster strength of spenders which give them an advantage in BGs.
The problem isn't the deals. They have to increase roster strength, otherwise nobody buys them. If nobody bought them then that would break the game economics, as in why would KABAM bother.
The problem is how much roster strength affects your chance of winnings in BGs. I would agree its too big of a factor. The solution isn't paring back the deals, its fixing Battlegrounds to reduce or eliminate that advantage. I don't have a solution for that.
The problem is a group of FTP don't want to pay for anything, complaining for more free stuffs and complaining that the people who pay get too good deal, so it becomes unfair to them.
Then, they starts coming up with the phrase "economy of the game"'s BS. Economy of the Game is all of us help sustaining the game. No business can sustain if they give everything out for free. Who will pay for anything?
1. F2F are complaining that the deals are too good, but they still didn't buy them despite there is no restriction for them to buy. 2. They want more free stuffs. 3. They are saying that they have no access to the resources. In fact, Kabam has improved BG store and other rewards to help them. (But still not in their satisfaction) 4. They may believe that the game could live on without money to keep the light on and salary to Kabam employee. 5. They don't show any appreciation towards people who buy the deals to keep the light on, but complaining that they have too good deal and the accounts will be too divided.
Then, the game economy BS has been raised. Bottom line is FTP wants more free stuffs, but don't want people who pay get something too good.
FTP still want to enjoy good quality game but believe Kabam or the whales could farm free money (like we farm free units in game) to keep the light on. Probably, they also think that Kabam employee don't need any food for their life. Kabam employee could just breath to survive.
P.S. Most of YouTuber are big whales not only by their own money or earning though YouTube but also members donation. They need to balance their fan base to say something that is politically correct.
Man said “Conclusion” then proceeded to make up his own Conclusions. Nobody is asking for “Free” stuff, I’m simply asking for the ability to earn the things that are so easily bough with the swipe of a credit card. I also never said to take away all the deals for the whales or stop appealing to them. I am just pointing out the fact that AT THIS TIME there is no way I can rank up any of the champions anywhere near their highest level even though I’ve completed all the latest content and compete in Gladiators Circuit every season.
Secondly, your position of “Everyone should say thank you to the whales for keeping the lights on at Kabam” is preposterous. While I’m sure a large chunk of change does come from the big spenders another large portion comes from the casual spenders since they spend less but it is a much larger group of people. The idea that Kabam would cease to exist without the whales is giving yourself credit for doing nothing.
Third, show me a single free to play or casual spender who has over 3 rank 5s and I would be shocked. Saying the BG store update is enough to keep up with the huge boosts in roster than all the large spenders just got is so unrealistic it’s funny. There’s barely even a way to get overpriced T6CC in the BG store. But go ahead and say that we’re complaining too much.
1. F2F are complaining that the deals are too good, but they still didn't buy them despite there is no restriction for them to buy. 2. They want more free stuffs. 3. They are saying that they have no access to the resources. In fact, Kabam has improved BG store and other rewards to help them. (But still not in their satisfaction) 4. They may believe that the game could live on without money to keep the light on and salary to Kabam employee. 5. They don't show any appreciation towards people who buy the deals to keep the light on, but complaining that they have too good deal and the accounts will be too divided.
Then, the game economy BS has been raised. Bottom line is FTP wants more free stuffs, but don't want people who pay get something too good.
FTP still want to enjoy good quality game but believe Kabam or the whales could farm free money (like we farm free units in game) to keep the light on. Probably, they also think that Kabam employee don't need any food for their life. Kabam employee could just breath to survive.
P.S. Most of YouTuber are big whales not only by their own money or earning though YouTube but also members donation. They need to balance their fan base to say something that is politically correct.
Man said “Conclusion” then proceeded to make up his own Conclusions. Nobody is asking for “Free” stuff, I’m simply asking for the ability to earn the things that are so easily bough with the swipe of a credit card. I also never said to take away all the deals for the whales or stop appealing to them. I am just pointing out the fact that AT THIS TIME there is no way I can rank up any of the champions anywhere near their highest level even though I’ve completed all the latest content and compete in Gladiators Circuit every season.
Secondly, your position of “Everyone should say thank you to the whales for keeping the lights on at Kabam” is preposterous. While I’m sure a large chunk of change does come from the big spenders another large portion comes from the casual spenders since they spend less but it is a much larger group of people. The idea that Kabam would cease to exist without the whales is giving yourself credit for doing nothing.
Third, show me a single free to play or casual spender who has over 3 rank 5s and I would be shocked. Saying the BG store update is enough to keep up with the huge boosts in roster than all the large spenders just got is so unrealistic it’s funny. There’s barely even a way to get overpriced T6CC in the BG store. But go ahead and say that we’re complaining too much.
So, you are FTP and want to get more free stuffs. When you couldn't get them, you are complaining that the people who spend get better stuffs than yours. Probably, you can go to nearby restaurant and ask for free food. When they refuse, complain to them that they are not fair. Ask them why they don't treat you equally comparing to the customers who buy their food.
MaddogHT is one of FTP who has skills and great roster. He bought the units deal from time to time using his hard earn units. I have never heard he complained about whales or the money deal in his channel (30K units), or asking for more free stuffs.
I believe he is happy with his choice and enjoy the game.
MaddogHT is one of FTP who has skills and great roster. He bought the units deal from time to time using his hard earn units. I have never heard he complained about whales or the money deal in his channel (30K units), or asking for more free stuffs.
I believe he is happy with his choice and enjoy the game.
This will be my last response since you seem to be incapable of seeing any perspective except your own. My finals thoughts on the topic are that your metaphor about going to a restaurant and asking for free food makes no sense. Maybe if instead you’d said it’s like I went and started washing dishes for the restaurant, and then I asked for some food for my work, and instead of the fresh food they served the paying customers, they fed me with worse food. It’s not criminal, but it certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
As for MaddogHT, you can always find an outlier among any group of people, the same way KT1 is arguably a “whale” but he agreed that the gap between ftp, casual, and whales, is growing to large for the game economy to be widely sustainable. If you have any valid responses to any of my reasons behind my arguments then I would be happy to hear them. If you’re going to continue to use bad metaphors to say that FTP players are “Only trying to get everything for free with no work” then this will be my last response
MaddogHT is one of FTP who has skills and great roster. He bought the units deal from time to time using his hard earn units. I have never heard he complained about whales or the money deal in his channel (30K units), or asking for more free stuffs.
I believe he is happy with his choice and enjoy the game.
This will be my last response since you seem to be incapable of seeing any perspective except your own. My finals thoughts on the topic are that your metaphor about going to a restaurant and asking for free food makes no sense. Maybe if instead you’d said it’s like I went and started washing dishes for the restaurant, and then I asked for some food for my work, and instead of the fresh food they served the paying customers, they fed me with worse food. It’s not criminal, but it certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
As for MaddogHT, you can always find an outlier among any group of people, the same way KT1 is arguably a “whale” but he agreed that the gap between ftp, casual, and whales, is growing to large for the game economy to be widely sustainable. If you have any valid responses to any of my reasons behind my arguments then I would be happy to hear them. If you’re going to continue to use bad metaphors to say that FTP players are “Only trying to get everything for free with no work” then this will be my last response
The example you gave is great. You feel you do something so you feel that you deserve something in return. Point is you are doing nothing. You just enjoy yourself in the restaurant without doing anything. Although they give you some free food but you demand to be treated equally as the people who pay.
There is no work... The grinding is just part of the scheme to give you better food for free. Your grind has no contribution to Kabam. You just use their server resources. So, there is still no contribution from you. If your grind has anything to do with bringing more investment to their company, then it could make sense. The fact is there is none.
So still no contribution, enjoy the game just for yourself and still demand everything free. The worse is you are complaining that the people who support Kabam to keep the light on get too good stuffs from spending their hard earned money.
Comments
In terms of the former, there's a difference between what the game economy is doing and "we're all going to end up in the same place." Imagine this was a thousand mile marathon race, and spenders could buy an hour riding in a car. That fifty mile advantage would be a more or less permanent advantage. A spender that got two hundred miles ahead would stay two hundred miles ahead throughout the race, barring you running faster than them. You could attempt to reduce that gap by outrunning them on foot, but that advantage they bought doesn't decrease on its own. Its a permanent advantage you can only try to nullify by building some counter-advantage of your own.
That's not what happens in this game. In this game, not only are we running forward, the entire map is shrinking. The map might be a thousand miles long today, but an hour later what used to be the edge of the map is now only five hundred miles away, and an additional five hundred miles is added to the end. When someone spends to get a two hundred mile advantage, that advantage shrinks constantly. In an hour they will be only a hundred miles ahead of me. In another hour they will only be fifty miles ahead of me. Five hours after the race began that two hundred mile advantage they bought at the start will have reduced to only six miles. Ten hours after the start of the race they will be just 350 yards ahead of me.
In terms of the latter, even if someone joins the race now, ten hours later, we might have been running for ten hours at, say, seven miles an hour, but the 70 miles of distance we've run with our feet has itself shrunk behind us to only a couple of miles. Someone who starts now will still be behind us, but not seventy miles behind, they would only be like three miles behind. To them, the amount they need to run to catch up with us seems a lot smaller than the distance we ran seems to us.
The fact that all leads shrink due to inflation means spending can have temporary benefits, but those benefits aren't allowed to stack up: they shrink over time. And the fact that inflation makes the race itself seem to contract over time means the race allows people to join long after the race starts and feel like they aren't so far behind that it is pointless. Both of these effects make the game much more friendly to F2P players than it might otherwise. And over long timescales, these two factors - resource inflow and game inflation - appear to me to be fairly well balanced. Game economy isn't hyperinflating, and game progress isn't overly deflating to the point of pointlessness. It isn't as easy as it sounds to land in the middle.
And all of this is separate from the fact that this is one of the only F2P games I've ever played or even heard of where F2P players can earn the games premium currency (in this case, units) in very large amounts (hundred of dollars a month) in an unrestricted manner (if you want to grind arena constantly, the game has few limits on how much you can grind it). Virtually none of the game's content is cash-gated. And F2P players that make it to the upper tiers of the game, say the top 5% are not super rare exceptions.
Kabam didn't invent any of this. I've been studying monetization since the literal dawn of the modern F2P microtransaction industry. I was there when MMOs transitioned from subscription to hybrid to F2P as the dominant system. This is just the way the industry learned, by trial and error, that players would most accept.
We vote with our actions. We, the game playing public, chose the winners and losers. F2P microtransaction supported monetization systems won by a landslide, and everyone else mostly died on the vine. The spenders wanted to spend and everyone else wanted the free lunch, and they chose to make this deal. And this is the way the deal worked best. And best was chosen by "which games attracted the most players with the largest revenue base."
Kabam didn't choose to run their game this way, any more than I chose which Gravity to study in college. This is just the way all games like this work, to varying degrees of success.
People give Kabam too much credit, ironically. They keep talking about Kabam like they are the only ones that do the things they do, when they are almost always just doing what everyone else does, changing the details but implementing the same systems as everyone else. The details matter, of course, but for the most part the details tend to generate good results - again, speaking specifically about monetization only.
It would be extremely easy to land in the middle, and I imagine you're aware of that. It just wouldn't be as profitable. Kabam obviously isn't doing these deals in hopes to break even, they're doing it to increase the already pretty damn high profit.
Can anyone join today and catch up pretty quick for no money at all? Hell yeah. But what happens when the map grows? What happens when they see the runner who was just miles behind them suddenly rocket past them? Are they supposed to just take it to the chest, say they knew they were never gonna win anyways and pretend it didn't happen? Obviously not. They'll go to the race organizers and say "hey, if you're gonna let people buy their way to the front, can you at least provide some water?" And that's when they slap a $6 price tag on a water bottle and put it up for sale. And that's when the race becomes a whole lot less friendly.
Yes, Kabam does what everyone else does, just not as well.
also, i like your assumption that those who dont spend, dont have jobs at all and are sitting at home playing a game.
In nuke metas, I cannot compete but in difficult metas, I do just fine.
If you can't beat certain people, you won't beat them with 4 more rank 5s in your deck...
The idea that MMOs did not have to face PvP related monetization issues is, I think, dramatically under-representing that particular game space. There are MMOs that are far more PvP-oriented than MCOC is, or will ever be, or could ever possibly be. MCOC is "PvP-lite" compared to PvP-oriented MMOs, much less games outside the MMO space that are also PvP-focused and also F2P monetized.
Whether Kabam does this better or worse when it comes to monetization has a subjective component to be sure. But what I can say is this: if there was another game out there that did it better, I would most likely be playing it instead. For me, the balance between gameplay progression and monetization is one of the key features by which I measure a game's attractiveness to me, as I would classify myself as a resource management-style player. For players like me, combat is what we do to pass the time in between managing resources in the account. Game economy and game monetization *is* the game. Marvel brought me here, the game's overall resource economy kept me here.
There is an objective component to this as well, but honestly that's the sort of discussion that I think only works in a classroom over blackboards or in a bar over pitchers of beer.
In MCOC's economy, the benefits of one player directly equal the disadvantages of another. Because of Battlegrounds, deals like these directly correlate to some players' win rates dropping.
MCOC just isn't complex enough for these deals to not have as big of an impact. In a game like WoW, sure I could buy the shiny new sword that outranks every item under my belt, but it doesn't work well with my class. Or maybe it isn't fast enough for my speed build, or maybe it doesn't provide enough magic damage for my spell build. Maybe I need more crit damage, or this or that, there are a thousand ways the item wouldn't be valuable to me. And even if I end up facing a player with the same build as mine, but better, it won't be the singular reason that I lose. In MCOC, you're facing one player who has objectively similar but better equipment in the form of champions. As long as the gameplay pushes that divide, these deals will continue to directly impact players who choose not to take advantage of them in a negative way. That's why Kabam's economy doesn't work nearly as well as the MMOs you're referring to.
I'm sure you do really enjoy MCOC's resource economy, because it is built to benefit you and directly impact those below you.
Put only 6* r3, or even better swift to a a full 5* deck.
Because you know, if you can’t beat certain people, you won’t beat them with more higher ranked champions in your deck 😂
What an idiotic logic to try to apply it on a roster based game’s, competitive head to head mode 🤷♂️
I'm the average ftp. I'm the person suffering from Kabam's failure within the economy. The fact that you believe I lack foundation is not due to my understanding, but rather your own.
Fact is
* Without BGs this wouldn't be such an issue.
* Without R5/6 or R2/7 rank ups deals would have been worthless to the biggest spenders.
* If you want to be on the bleeding edge of the game you need to be a customer. That is the way.
1. F2F are complaining that the deals are too good, but they still didn't buy them despite there is no restriction for them to buy.
2. They want more free stuffs.
3. They are saying that they have no access to the resources. In fact, Kabam has improved BG store and other rewards to help them. (But still not in their satisfaction)
4. They may believe that the game could live on without money to keep the light on and salary to Kabam employee.
5. They don't show any appreciation towards people who buy the deals to keep the light on, but complaining that they have too good deal and the accounts will be too divided.
Then, the game economy BS has been raised. Bottom line is FTP wants more free stuffs, but don't want people who pay get something too good.
FTP still want to enjoy good quality game but believe Kabam or the whales could farm free money (like we farm free units in game) to keep the light on. Probably, they also think that Kabam employee don't need any food for their life. Kabam employee could just breath to survive.
P.S. Most of YouTuber are big whales not only by their own money or earning though YouTube but also members donation. They need to balance their fan base to say something that is politically correct.
And I completely agree with 2/3 of your points. If BGs didn't exist there'd be no need to change. But now that it exists as a permanent mode, there is an issue. I completely believe that they could solve the issues by simple making more restrictive metas. I wouldn't care if someone ranked up Rintrah during the electric defense meta, because a rank 5 Rintrah would be worse than a rank 3 Red Skull for that meta.
I also agree that I will never be on the bleeding edge. I don't think I should be. My goal is to enjoy the game and earn the rewards purely through content, so I don't spend. But the current state of the economy is not enjoyable for players who don't spend. As long as that's the case, we have every right to discuss it.
I just disagree with the idea that Rank 5's and Rank 2's are the only thing spenders have to gain from spending. It's the only thing that ftp players can't get that spenders can get multiple of, but even rank 3 gems are more than enough to set a wide gap between Thronebreaker spenders and non spenders, especially in BGs. Hell, a large amount of gold is the only thing I'm looking for right now, and spenders have unlimited avenues to obtain that. While I've done every piece of seasonal/monthly content I can get my hands on and am just stuck spending all of my Glory on 200k gold every reset. It's just not fun, but I expect August to be a pretty damn good month for ftp players, so of course I'll be around then.
Nobody can comment on the enjoyment of other players, but everybody knows what items are in the deals. Everybody can comment on that.
I'm saying nobody can comment on the enjoyment of another player. Your point is that rank 5's and rank 2's are the only thing spenders had to gain, which is just objectively not true. Look at the deals, there are other things there. I don't see how your point relates at all to enjoyment, which is the only thing I believe players cannot comment on without being made aware of the scenario.
You're say that the deals have increased roster strength of spenders which give them an advantage in BGs.
The problem isn't the deals. They have to increase roster strength, otherwise nobody buys them. If nobody bought them then that would break the game economics, as in why would KABAM bother.
The problem is how much roster strength affects your chance of winnings in BGs.
I would agree its too big of a factor. The solution isn't paring back the deals, its fixing Battlegrounds to reduce or eliminate that advantage. I don't have a solution for that.
Then, they starts coming up with the phrase "economy of the game"'s BS. Economy of the Game is all of us help sustaining the game. No business can sustain if they give everything out for free. Who will pay for anything?
Secondly, your position of “Everyone should say thank you to the whales for keeping the lights on at Kabam” is preposterous. While I’m sure a large chunk of change does come from the big spenders another large portion comes from the casual spenders since they spend less but it is a much larger group of people. The idea that Kabam would cease to exist without the whales is giving yourself credit for doing nothing.
Third, show me a single free to play or casual spender who has over 3 rank 5s and I would be shocked. Saying the BG store update is enough to keep up with the huge boosts in roster than all the large spenders just got is so unrealistic it’s funny. There’s barely even a way to get overpriced T6CC in the BG store. But go ahead and say that we’re complaining too much.
I believe he is happy with his choice and enjoy the game.
As for MaddogHT, you can always find an outlier among any group of people, the same way KT1 is arguably a “whale” but he agreed that the gap between ftp, casual, and whales, is growing to large for the game economy to be widely sustainable. If you have any valid responses to any of my reasons behind my arguments then I would be happy to hear them. If you’re going to continue to use bad metaphors to say that FTP players are “Only trying to get everything for free with no work” then this will be my last response
There is no work... The grinding is just part of the scheme to give you better food for free. Your grind has no contribution to Kabam. You just use their server resources. So, there is still no contribution from you. If your grind has anything to do with bringing more investment to their company, then it could make sense. The fact is there is none.
So still no contribution, enjoy the game just for yourself and still demand everything free. The worse is you are complaining that the people who support Kabam to keep the light on get too good stuffs from spending their hard earned money.