July 4th Sales and Game Economy

I’ll try not to sound too whiny especially considering this is all pictures on a screen, but I can’t help but feel as if this company is a bit short sighted. The way this game functioned at one point was you could either invest a large amount of time to acquire resources, or you could invest very little or no time and get the same or slightly better resources. At this point I think it’s safe to say that is no longer the case. After this most recent “Fun in the Sun” Sale there is absolutely no way a free to play player could have anywhere near the roster of a paid player even if they were dedicating 24 hours of their day towards acquiring resources and stockpiling units. I’m not saying don’t make deals as tempting or well valued as they are, but maybe someway of putting in the work to get at least somewhat close to what you can pay for? Right now there is LITERALLY nothing I can do in this game to get anywhere near even half the amount of Rank 5 6 star champions as someone could’ve just gotten from swiping their credit card. I love this game, I would hate to quit playing it… but at this point playing it feels like an unnecessary step. Click, swipe, win.

Comments

doctorb

There r 2 major sales each year: July 4th and Black Friday / Cyber Monday.

You need to save ur units for these instead of spending them throughout. You now have 4 months to save for next major sale. You should easily have 15K or more units if u save.

DNA3000

The way this game functioned at one point was you could either invest a large amount of time to acquire resources, or you could invest very little or no time and get the same or slightly better resources.

Although I hear this a lot, even from players whose opinions I respect, I personally have never felt this way in the entire history of the game. Going all the way back to when T4CC was the top resource in the game, you had to be in a top tier alliance to get it. There was no way to (directly) buy them with cash, and no plausible way to grind for them with any amount of time. And at the time, the complaint was that the only way to get into top tier alliances was with high prestige, which was the purview of the big spenders and a few very high F2P grinders.

As someone who used to run in an above average alliance (say, top 300 AQ and tier 5/6 AW) and has generally been a higher than average arena grinder, I have *always* felt that I could keep pace with the top players, in terms of not falling too far behind them, but also *never* felt that with just a little more spending, grinding, or pushing I could actually catch up to them.

I'm now in a much more relaxed alliance (~3200 AQ and tier 12 AW) and honestly I don't feel like I've fallen that much further behind. I spend a bit more, I push a bit less, and I'm still drafting behind the economic wake of the top tier players.

I understand that experience is individual. I know people who have echoed what you're seeing. I just don't think this is a universal sentiment based on objective economic realities. It is driven by the perception of moving targets, and honestly some rose colored views of the past. There are players who had no trouble in the T4CC days and now feel like they are falling behind. But then there are people like me who had no way to approach the top in those days and see a more accessible economy today. And it is not just spending. Even the unit offers which F2P arena grinders can get are offering ways for those players to make significant progress. Now some people believe that arena grinding shouldn't be as good or better of a path to progress as other content driven paths. But that to is a matter of preference, not economic constraints.

Chuck_Finley

There r 2 major sales each year: July 4th and Black Friday / Cyber Monday.

You need to save ur units for these instead of spending them throughout. You now have 4 months to save for next major sale. You should easily have 15K or more units if u save.

I had 23k saved. Turns out you needed 36k to max out the event when before it was 18k or 21k. If that’s the new standard.. arena unit grinders need to accept the reality that you aren’t gonna be able to get everything anymore. It is what is. Not complaining, but I am actually less inclined at the moment to kill myself over arenas again. You can get some good stuff, but you won’t keep up.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

There r 2 major sales each year: July 4th and Black Friday / Cyber Monday.

You need to save ur units for these instead of spending them throughout. You now have 4 months to save for next major sale. You should easily have 15K or more units if u save.

There are 4. This year has an additional one, so 5.

unknown

This content has been removed.

DrZola

After ~8 years, I’m still amused by concerns about the “economy.” My experience suggests the economic piece that drives game decisions is revenues first, ramifications later.

Dr. Zola

startropics

After ~8 years, I’m still amused by concerns about the “economy.” My experience suggests the economic piece that drives game decisions is revenues first, ramifications later.

Dr. Zola

yup. we can mess up the economy through deals then adjust the economy on the back end, wiping all progress be damned

klobberintyme

I’ll try not to sound too whiny especially considering this is all pictures on a screen, but I can’t help but feel as if this company is a bit short sighted.

I love this game, I would hate to quit playing it… but at this point playing it feels like an unnecessary step. Click, swipe, win.

You take the time and effort to collect enough t6ccs to r5 a 6*. Takes you months or years even. Now you see some schmuck like myself cash in and snag 3 6r5 rankup gems and 10 t6ccs in an afternoon. Seeing as how going into the event i had a grand total of 50% of a cosmic I can see why that's frustrating for those not willing to pay. Don't know what to tell you, other than i don't have the time or inclination to play the required amount but i got a lot of monthly discretionary budget to play with, so i make it work for me. Thanks kabam.

On the other hand, one could argue they're running this like a fire sale, and you know what fire sales usually mean...

klobberintyme

On a side note, memba when we all went nuts when "Warlock's Dad" dropped alleged 6 figures on the gifting event 6 months ago for the first 6r5? By next event the rank up 6r5 gems will come with peter parkers wallet. Now that's a dude who could complain about game economy.

Bugmat78

Yeah I semi-whaled this weekend but I am also going into the halls of f2p. Not because I want to be special, but because it's a different game now and I have better things to use my resources on. I'll see what I can save for November but despite benefiting from it I was far from comfortable with how many rank up resources were dished out this weekend. It was all a bit excessive to me. Not as bad as the first gifting event relatively, but this one has widened the gap much more. I basically added 7 6r5 to my roster (before this I had 2 7r2 and 1 6r5) - that is crazy and I know plenty ppl got double what I gained.

DNA3000

After ~8 years, I’m still amused by concerns about the “economy.” My experience suggests the economic piece that drives game decisions is revenues first, ramifications later.

Dr. Zola

And yet the most common complaint about offers is the value is generally too low, and if only they increased the value in those offers or reduced their prices or both they would sell more stuff. And they probably would. Is your theory that everyone at Kabam that manages the economy is completely unaware of this? If revenue was the thing that drives their decisions, why aren't they doing very obvious trivial things that would increase revenue?

Why do the offers have limits, for example? There's no direct revenue reason for purchase limits. If the limits on J4 offers was six or twelve or twenty I'm sure there would be people who would max them out. How about the daily specials? I would bet anything that if you could buy a hundred of them all at once, Kabam would be selling thousands more of them. What's the revenue driver that sets these limits?

In fact, I cannot think of a single monetization offer in the history of the game whose design could be explained solely or primarily by the desire to maximize the revenue from that offer. Can anyone?

AMS94

There r 2 major sales each year: July 4th and Black Friday / Cyber Monday.

You need to save ur units for these instead of spending them throughout. You now have 4 months to save for next major sale. You should easily have 15K or more units if u save.

The unit deals were not that game breaking
It was those Odin offers that widened the gap a bit too much

Greekhit

Relax people new content is coming.
8.3 is coming soon and it will surely have more rewards for exploration, than 4th July cash offers 😉
At least the Peter Parker's wallet ones 😂

startropics

After ~8 years, I’m still amused by concerns about the “economy.” My experience suggests the economic piece that drives game decisions is revenues first, ramifications later.

Dr. Zola
And yet the most common complaint about offers is the value is generally too low, and if only they increased the value in those offers or reduced their prices or both they would sell more stuff. And they probably would. Is your theory that everyone at Kabam that manages the economy is completely unaware of this? If revenue was the thing that drives their decisions, why aren't they doing very obvious trivial things that would increase revenue?

Why do the offers have limits, for example? There's no direct revenue reason for purchase limits. If the limits on J4 offers was six or twelve or twenty I'm sure there would be people who would max them out. How about the daily specials? I would bet anything that if you could buy a hundred of them all at once, Kabam would be selling thousands more of them. What's the revenue driver that sets these limits?

In fact, I cannot think of a single monetization offer in the history of the game whose design could be explained solely or primarily by the desire to maximize the revenue from that offer. Can anyone?

game-wise these deals nullify the achievements of end gamers who pushed in alliance modes especially battlegrounds. that seems like the purpose of these deals, or maybe it's just a side effect.

vz2fbx

I’ll try not to sound too whiny especially considering this is all pictures on a screen, but I can’t help but feel as if this company is a bit short sighted. The way this game functioned at one point was you could either invest a large amount of time to acquire resources, or you could invest very little or no time and get the same or slightly better resources. At this point I think it’s safe to say that is no longer the case. After this most recent “Fun in the Sun” Sale there is absolutely no way a free to play player could have anywhere near the roster of a paid player even if they were dedicating 24 hours of their day towards acquiring resources and stockpiling units. I’m not saying don’t make deals as tempting or well valued as they are, but maybe someway of putting in the work to get at least somewhat close to what you can pay for? Right now there is LITERALLY nothing I can do in this game to get anywhere near even half the amount of Rank 5 6 star champions as someone could’ve just gotten from swiping their credit card. I love this game, I would hate to quit playing it… but at this point playing it feels like an unnecessary step. Click, swipe, win.

You could not expect to be FTP and be competitive. Of course, you still could have fun and have progressed naturally.

To be competitive, you may need to invest and support the game as well. It is logical that Kabam shall treat the players who provide them financial support differently from FTP. If they are going to treat them the same way like FTP and they need to compete with FTP on the similar ground or slightly better, who will support them? Everybody will become FTP. The company will not be able to pay their developers and hardware to keep the light on.

FTP still could have some fun though but you should not expect the same treatments while you have never spent a single dime to support them. You should appreciate the whales who spend to help you enjoying the game as FTP.

DNA3000

After ~8 years, I’m still amused by concerns about the “economy.” My experience suggests the economic piece that drives game decisions is revenues first, ramifications later.

Dr. Zola
And yet the most common complaint about offers is the value is generally too low, and if only they increased the value in those offers or reduced their prices or both they would sell more stuff. And they probably would. Is your theory that everyone at Kabam that manages the economy is completely unaware of this? If revenue was the thing that drives their decisions, why aren't they doing very obvious trivial things that would increase revenue?

Why do the offers have limits, for example? There's no direct revenue reason for purchase limits. If the limits on J4 offers was six or twelve or twenty I'm sure there would be people who would max them out. How about the daily specials? I would bet anything that if you could buy a hundred of them all at once, Kabam would be selling thousands more of them. What's the revenue driver that sets these limits?

In fact, I cannot think of a single monetization offer in the history of the game whose design could be explained solely or primarily by the desire to maximize the revenue from that offer. Can anyone?
game-wise these deals nullify the achievements of end gamers who pushed in alliance modes especially battlegrounds. that seems like the purpose of these deals, or maybe it's just a side effect.

Given enough time, the login calendar will nullify the achievements of end gamers. Game inflation operates that way, and deliberately so.

The question is always how long should any advantage, whether earned through in-game play or through spending, persist. Think about someone who might have spent tens of thousands of dollars in 2021. What does any of it mean now? That level of *cash* will deflate away pretty fast in this game. You're buying time, not things. So yes, the stuff end gamers obtained through game play in the past is also being subsumed by cash offers in the present. So those lasted six month, maybe a year? How long were they supposed to last, when money depreciates pretty fast as well?

The idea, and this is not an idea Kabam invented it is extremely common design practice, is that no advantage should last for long in a game like this. When advantages can pile up and persist, the game becomes very hostile to new players. Once the game becomes too hostile to new players, it is heading for maintenance mode and sunset. Of course, you don't want to make things too hostile for existing end gamers, grinders, and spenders as well so there's a balance that has to be set. Where that is set is a judgment call. But the characteristic time window for the game economy is something I would guess at somewhere in the neighborhood of nine to fifteen months. This is an oversimplification, but that's about the time window you'd expect sudden influx of game advantages to be deflated by 50-60%.

Feeney234

After ~8 years, I’m still amused by concerns about the “economy.” My experience suggests the economic piece that drives game decisions is revenues first, ramifications later.

Dr. Zola
And yet the most common complaint about offers is the value is generally too low, and if only they increased the value in those offers or reduced their prices or both they would sell more stuff. And they probably would. Is your theory that everyone at Kabam that manages the economy is completely unaware of this? If revenue was the thing that drives their decisions, why aren't they doing very obvious trivial things that would increase revenue?

Why do the offers have limits, for example? There's no direct revenue reason for purchase limits. If the limits on J4 offers was six or twelve or twenty I'm sure there would be people who would max them out. How about the daily specials? I would bet anything that if you could buy a hundred of them all at once, Kabam would be selling thousands more of them. What's the revenue driver that sets these limits?

In fact, I cannot think of a single monetization offer in the history of the game whose design could be explained solely or primarily by the desire to maximize the revenue from that offer. Can anyone?
game-wise these deals nullify the achievements of end gamers who pushed in alliance modes especially battlegrounds. that seems like the purpose of these deals, or maybe it's just a side effect.

End gamers are immune to nullify

MR_61088

The competetive nature of the game is gone. Totally.
To gain the top rewards you need to clear content, to catch up (not to overtake) you can use the offers, deals what ever…

Feels really bad atm

HungaryHippo

This is all nonsense. Time is money. Whining because your time investment has now been equaled by someone’s money is like old farmers complaining that new farmers have access to better tools.

Every single player could have bought the deals. If you had 8 6r5, now you have 17 vs a noobs 5 6r5. No one could sit on their butt and just buy the deals. They’d need to have lots of r4s!

This is just salt as far as I can tell. People who made their way into to high prestige alliances and cliques wanted to maintain dominance without spending a dime.

If you’re unhappy, play the game casually but it’s the whales that keep the servers running, not your bellyaching.

vz2fbx

This is all nonsense. Time is money. Whining because your time investment has now been equaled by someone’s money is like old farmers complaining that new farmers have access to better tools.

Every single player could have bought the deals. If you had 8 6r5, now you have 17 vs a noobs 5 6r5. No one could sit on their butt and just buy the deals. They’d need to have lots of r4s!

This is just salt as far as I can tell. People who made their way into to high prestige alliances and cliques wanted to maintain dominance without spending a dime.

If you’re unhappy, play the game casually but it’s the whales that keep the servers running, not your bellyaching.

Agree! It is beyond absurdity. It is not like the farmers as you said. Better example is the people who get free food coupon contributed by the people who pay for the food are complaining that the people who pay (and help them) are getting better food.

EliOrSomething

The way this game functioned at one point was you could either invest a large amount of time to acquire resources, or you could invest very little or no time and get the same or slightly better resources.
Although I hear this a lot, even from players whose opinions I respect, I personally have never felt this way in the entire history of the game. Going all the way back to when T4CC was the top resource in the game, you had to be in a top tier alliance to get it. There was no way to (directly) buy them with cash, and no plausible way to grind for them with any amount of time. And at the time, the complaint was that the only way to get into top tier alliances was with high prestige, which was the purview of the big spenders and a few very high F2P grinders.

As someone who used to run in an above average alliance (say, top 300 AQ and tier 5/6 AW) and has generally been a higher than average arena grinder, I have *always* felt that I could keep pace with the top players, in terms of not falling too far behind them, but also *never* felt that with just a little more spending, grinding, or pushing I could actually catch up to them.

I'm now in a much more relaxed alliance (~3200 AQ and tier 12 AW) and honestly I don't feel like I've fallen that much further behind. I spend a bit more, I push a bit less, and I'm still drafting behind the economic wake of the top tier players.

I understand that experience is individual. I know people who have echoed what you're seeing. I just don't think this is a universal sentiment based on objective economic realities. It is driven by the perception of moving targets, and honestly some rose colored views of the past. There are players who had no trouble in the T4CC days and now feel like they are falling behind. But then there are people like me who had no way to approach the top in those days and see a more accessible economy today. And it is not just spending. Even the unit offers which F2P arena grinders can get are offering ways for those players to make significant progress. Now some people believe that arena grinding shouldn't be as good or better of a path to progress as other content driven paths. But that to is a matter of preference, not economic constraints.

I definitely see that side as well, and I very well could be falling victim to the rose colored lenses of the past, I just know I personally have completed almost all of the end game content except for some of carinas challenges and still have yet to get a single r5, I just feel as though event quests most difficult setting should be providing you with at some convoluted way to get close to a rank 5 6 star, right now thats not the case, even look at the newest story content 8.2. Exploration of that got you 1 T6CC and thats about it as far as rank 5 materials go. I just think we usually see a smaller gap between what is readily available in the rewards of eq or story content and whats available in the unit store. All I’m saying is it sucks to feel Kabam put a 100 dollar price tag on things that are beyond the reach of even the highest level of content

Lovejoy72

The way this game functioned at one point was you could either invest a large amount of time to acquire resources, or you could invest very little or no time and get the same or slightly better resources.
Although I hear this a lot, even from players whose opinions I respect, I personally have never felt this way in the entire history of the game. Going all the way back to when T4CC was the top resource in the game, you had to be in a top tier alliance to get it. There was no way to (directly) buy them with cash, and no plausible way to grind for them with any amount of time. And at the time, the complaint was that the only way to get into top tier alliances was with high prestige, which was the purview of the big spenders and a few very high F2P grinders.

As someone who used to run in an above average alliance (say, top 300 AQ and tier 5/6 AW) and has generally been a higher than average arena grinder, I have *always* felt that I could keep pace with the top players, in terms of not falling too far behind them, but also *never* felt that with just a little more spending, grinding, or pushing I could actually catch up to them.

I'm now in a much more relaxed alliance (~3200 AQ and tier 12 AW) and honestly I don't feel like I've fallen that much further behind. I spend a bit more, I push a bit less, and I'm still drafting behind the economic wake of the top tier players.

I understand that experience is individual. I know people who have echoed what you're seeing. I just don't think this is a universal sentiment based on objective economic realities. It is driven by the perception of moving targets, and honestly some rose colored views of the past. There are players who had no trouble in the T4CC days and now feel like they are falling behind. But then there are people like me who had no way to approach the top in those days and see a more accessible economy today. And it is not just spending. Even the unit offers which F2P arena grinders can get are offering ways for those players to make significant progress. Now some people believe that arena grinding shouldn't be as good or better of a path to progress as other content driven paths. But that to is a matter of preference, not economic constraints.

I definitely see that side as well, and I very well could be falling victim to the rose colored lenses of the past, I just know I personally have completed almost all of the end game content except for some of carinas challenges and still have yet to get a single r5, I just feel as though event quests most difficult setting should be providing you with at some convoluted way to get close to a rank 5 6 star, right now thats not the case, even look at the newest story content 8.2. Exploration of that got you 1 T6CC and thats about it as far as rank 5 materials go. I just think we usually see a smaller gap between what is readily available in the rewards of eq or story content and whats available in the unit store. All I’m saying is it sucks to feel Kabam put a 100 dollar price tag on things that are beyond the reach of even the highest level of content

The first Rfive for almost everyone was in that very Carina’s content? It was certainly my first Rfive. It was very challenging to do, I spent a lot of time grinding units and revives. But that was way back in February. We’ve all had five months to knock that Content out.

Gogi

I’ll try not to sound too whiny especially considering this is all pictures on a screen, but I can’t help but feel as if this company is a bit short sighted. The way this game functioned at one point was you could either invest a large amount of time to acquire resources, or you could invest very little or no time and get the same or slightly better resources. At this point I think it’s safe to say that is no longer the case. After this most recent “Fun in the Sun” Sale there is absolutely no way a free to play player could have anywhere near the roster of a paid player even if they were dedicating 24 hours of their day towards acquiring resources and stockpiling units. I’m not saying don’t make deals as tempting or well valued as they are, but maybe someway of putting in the work to get at least somewhat close to what you can pay for? Right now there is LITERALLY nothing I can do in this game to get anywhere near even half the amount of Rank 5 6 star champions as someone could’ve just gotten from swiping their credit card. I love this game, I would hate to quit playing it… but at this point playing it feels like an unnecessary step. Click, swipe, win.

Well, you should not compare F2P with players that decides to invest.. There was and will always be a gap between those two. I barely invested and I don't have any issues with where other players are could not care less TBH. Your post is a whine, you should know by now how it works this does not happen just in this game. Complaining that other have gotten ahead of is just bad. Kabam did right with these sales, however they still need to improve all stores especially Sigil and bump up the rewards for MEQ.

_Pez_

1) the game is incredibly f2p friendly. You can literally farm 1000+ premium currency (units) a week for free for not ridiculous amounts of time/effort
2) other people having more than you does not detract from what you have, compete at your level. Battlegrounds you get matched loosely on prestige it seems up until platinum so can avoid the biggest accounts and after that you have as much chance as being matched with smaller as the bigger accounts so can still progress
3) Skillful people with 6r4 will still beat unskilled people with 6r5 and 7*s in BG and 6R4 is still more than enough to clear any current content and things on the immediate horizon.
4) if the people who are spending are not offered good deals, they won't buy and the game will die and then you cant play at all. If someone wants to spend $1000s of their moneyband can afford to you should be grateful not bitter towards what they have done, they are letting you still play for free.
5) As a f2p there is so much you can do, you can do all content at least for now, you can still perform well in Battlegrounds, you can farm obscene amounts of units to use in sales such as this and banquet. So why be bitter you can't compete with the people at the very top, it sounds so entitled

naikavon

Everyone should take a deep breath and relax.

Let me ask ya'll something. How many Paragons and high level thronebreakers were using a ton of r5 5 stars lately?

7 stars exist in the game. They are the future and that future isn't far off.

There of course is the immediate advantage in BG that folks are going to enjoy but I wouldn't count on it being a long advantage.

It's going to be alright.

Searmenis

The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But.
The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.

Is this still a game?

vz2fbx

The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But.
The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.

Is this still a game?

Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".

In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.

Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.

If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?

This is such a ridiculous complain.....

vz2fbx

The whales don't find any free money growing on tree. They spend hard earn money because they are enjoying the game. Personally, I don't think the deal is good enough for their money. Kabam should do better. If Kabam starts charging money to all, it would be cheaper or better

Again, Kabam has never restricted anyone to buy the deal. If it is so good as you complain, you should start buying to keep the game sustain itself.

Now the complain is the deal is too good for the people who buy but you don't even think about buying.... but complaining to lower the value to the people who pay.

So selfish....

Searmenis

Now the complain is the deal is too good for the people who buy but you don't even think about buying.... but complaining to lower the value to the people who pay.

So selfish....

You have my bank account statements in hand? Upload a picture, I don't mind.

vz2fbx

Now the complain is the deal is too good for the people who buy but you don't even think about buying.... but complaining to lower the value to the people who pay.

So selfish....
You have my bank account statements in hand? Upload a picture, I don't mind.

If the goal is to play for free, then just have fun and stop complaining to lower the value of the stuffs that others are willing to pay. You have choice.

If you have issue with your bank statement, it is better to stop playing and work seriously to make more money for yourself and your family.