The vote is rigged

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Comments

  • FrnkieloFrnkielo Member Posts: 311 ★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Frnkielo said:

    Simply think a forum ban first is appropriate…30 day in game ban..too extreme

    Why? You said in another post that if they were abusive in global chat then you could see banning their game account. But why not just ban them from global?

    You said Kabam cannot just ban for no reason or without a very specific TOS violation. I responded to that post, so when you say you simply think a forum ban is appropriate, that's not the only thing you think. You also think Kabam has to justify game bans in a very specific way. I believe there's sufficient evidence to refute that belief.

    Going back to this belief, this is a question of judgment, not of fact. There's no way to prove or disprove that a game ban is the correct response. I gave a rationale for why such a ban would be appropriate. Why do you think the punishment for abusive forum conduct *must* be limited to only the forums? Are you saying every player gets to have one chance to do literally anything on the forums, and no matter how egregious the conduct they can do it knowing they are safe from any significant punishment at all, especially if they have no intent of using the forums for any other purpose?

    Yes exactly…the person shouldn’t be banned in game until they do something in game…when they go to global chat and violate terms then ban them…they got banned in the forum keep it in the forum
  • FrnkieloFrnkielo Member Posts: 311 ★★

    Frnkielo said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Frnkielo said:

    Simply think a forum ban first is appropriate…30 day in game ban..too extreme

    Why? You said in another post that if they were abusive in global chat then you could see banning their game account. But why not just ban them from global?

    You said Kabam cannot just ban for no reason or without a very specific TOS violation. I responded to that post, so when you say you simply think a forum ban is appropriate, that's not the only thing you think. You also think Kabam has to justify game bans in a very specific way. I believe there's sufficient evidence to refute that belief.

    Going back to this belief, this is a question of judgment, not of fact. There's no way to prove or disprove that a game ban is the correct response. I gave a rationale for why such a ban would be appropriate. Why do you think the punishment for abusive forum conduct *must* be limited to only the forums? Are you saying every player gets to have one chance to do literally anything on the forums, and no matter how egregious the conduct they can do it knowing they are safe from any significant punishment at all, especially if they have no intent of using the forums for any other purpose?

    Yes exactly…the person shouldn’t be banned in game until they do something in game…when they go to global chat and violate terms then ban them…they got banned in the forum keep it in the forum

    Why is that for you to decide? This isn't even remotely an adequate response to what @DNA3000 said at all lol
    Obviously it’s not for me to decide …it’s my opinion..people have them and are entitled to them…I can feel the anger in responses at the idea of not banning in game

  • FrnkieloFrnkielo Member Posts: 311 ★★


    Miike was probably more merciful than I would have been.
    DNA3000 said:

    Frnkielo said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Frnkielo said:

    Being abusive to other players and inappropriate language is what was actually in the responses to me by other people on the forum so few accounts technically could be banned….the other note number 4 starts off with some serious words ..it says except where restricted or prohibited by applicable law..US law differs from Canadian law..I assume it depends on where the specific case takes place…laws are different everywhere so I assume that’s why this is here…true even in the US a business can reject anyone from say going into their store and then that person can file a lawsuit and it goes back and forth like that..

    In the United States you can literally file suit for anything. There is no specific set of things deemed appropriate for civil court. You're required to actually make a case, and you could get immediately tossed for any number of reasons, but when someone says you can sue that's because that is literally the way the US courts work. I could sue you for wasting my time here on the forums. I would lose, but I could do it. Similarly, you could sue them for banning you. You would lose, but you could do it, because in America you can sue God for making it rain on your picnic.

    As to the conduct in this thread, nothing I see here rises to the level of being a bannable offense. People throw around the "be consistent" thing all the time, but here in the real world there's such a thing as discretion. Even when the strict letter of the law is broken, there are degrees of problematic behavior, and some can be safely ignored, some deserve a warning, some deserve forum time out, some draw permanent forum bans, and some draw game account bans. Given what happens on the forums every day, if Miike drew the ban hammer, the OP must have gone way over the line.

    Moderators everywhere must exercise judgment. I have been given forum warnings myself in the past. I didn't always agree with them, but I recognize the moderators have a difficult job, and discretion when it comes to warnings and bans have very blurry lines. I have never gone anywhere near the line that would get me permanently banned from the forums or any sort of ban from the game, nor do I have any desire to do so. It would never occur to me to do any of those things, and frankly the idea that such behavior should be normalized, like hey, its occasionally going to happen to the best of us, is something I don't subscribe to. Nobody accidentally trips and becomes a horrible person on their way to the sidewalk.

    There's a line that if you cross it there's only two possibilities: they did it deliberately in which case they're a monster. Or they did it accidentally in which case we should presume they'll be doing it over and over again because they are an idiot. In either case, a strict punitive response is warranted. Honestly, they are lucky they were not permanently banned. I personally cannot imagine anything that would cause me to want to ban a player from the game for abusive conduct, that I would judge as worthy of a thirty day ban. There's a week for something that rides the line but needs action taken. And then there's nuke from orbit, and by all means stand there and let the door hit you on the way out, because I intend for that door to be moving at hypersonic speed when it strikes.

    Miike was probably more merciful than I would have been.
    That’s scary…you would do more then a 30 day ban…honest question..how would you feel if kabam tracked him down and made him lose his job for his post? If you had the power would you take more from this person then just access to the game?
    There's no such slippery slope. We live in a world where businesses permanently ban or bar undesirable people from their customer base every single day. Restaurants do it. Casinos do it. Even airlines do it. None of them hunt the person down afterwards, because there's a gigantic difference between denying service and attacking someone outside the bounds of your business.

    If I say I don't want you to come over to my house, and you say in reply "oh, so what now, are you going to track me down and get me kicked out of my house too? How far are you willing to go with this house-exclusivity thing?" I would write you off as a crazy person. That's not remotely worth a serious response.
    The statement was that Mike was merciful compared to what they would do…how much more do you want to do this terms violater for “hate speech”

  • FrnkieloFrnkielo Member Posts: 311 ★★
    Pikolu said:

    Frnkielo said:

    "Kabam Miike" wow I have to say that is an abuse of power to ban a customer in game for words on a forum..the forum and the game are two different entities and doing what you did is not right..if something had been said on the global chat then apply your terms and services to that but this is a website..you represent a business and should put your personal beliefs and emotions aside and only apply to what you are policing..you are moderating a forum so apply your ban to account here..these tactics are wrong and seem to intimidate others from saying something that you may use your power to affect them in game

    This isn't the first time nor will it likely be the last time someone got banned in-game for something said on forums. This is a kabam-sanctioned and moderated forum for Marvel Contest of Champions. Your behavior here can affect your ingame account. Be nice and don't be an idiot and you have nothing to worry about.

    Also attacking other forum members who disagree with you looks really bad on you.
    Wait…are you saying I’m attacking forum members? lol…literally every response is attacking me on my opinion..I think you have it backwards
  • FrnkieloFrnkielo Member Posts: 311 ★★

    Frnkielo said:

    Frnkielo said:



    Frnkielo said:

    Frnkielo said:

    @Kabam Miike wow I have to say that is an abuse of power to ban a customer in game for words on a forum..the forum and the game are two different entities and doing what you did is not right..if something had been said on the global chat then apply your terms and services to that but this is a website..you represent a business and should put your personal beliefs and emotions aside and only apply to what you are policing..you are moderating a forum so apply your ban to account here..these tactics are wrong and seem to intimidate others from saying something that you may use your power to affect them in game

    I'd stick to talking about things you're actually familiar with. You're out of your league here.

    People should be intimidated in saying homophobic things. 30 day ban isn't enough in my book. People like you and the person who got banned won't ever change.

    Banning someone for spewing hate speech falls directly into their purview. It's against forums ToS to attack people in that manner. The fact that you're standing up for someone who talks that way is disgusting.
    What league am I out of exactly? What exactly about me are you saying will never change? Are you accusing me of being homophonic because you said people like me will never change? Change what exactly? My position is ban in forum not in game.

    You're out of your league in that-
    1. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. There's nothing that says you can't be banned in both spots.
    2. By you saying they shouldn't have their account banned as well as forums means you don't hold hate speech in higher regard.
    3. You won't change your viewpoint because you've defended your opinion here already.

    There is no room on theses forums or in game for people who believe hate speech is acceptable anywhere. What Miike did, in my opinion, is the bare minimum that should happen. If you're against strict punishments for actions like OP, then you support what they did.
    Seems like you are making many assumptions about me based on my opinion on what I feel is a deserved punishment for a terms violation..if Miike had only banned this person in the forum would you attack him for not holding “hate speech” in a higher regard or would you accept his judgment…would you even have an opinion on it?…I am amazed at the assumptions a person can make on someone they don’t even know based off the fact that I think this person probably loves the game and deserves to play the game but doesn’t deserve to post on the forum…if this person goes to global chat and continued their actions then I would say ban them there also…why is that opinion so bad and cause so many people to want to attack me…a big reason is clearly the keyboard warrior aspect of it bcuz I’m sure everyone here would just have a normal conversation about this face to face and it would all be respectful I have to deal with one lines like “your out of your league”…”womp womp”…”your a narc” just nonsense…the last sentence where you said “if your’re against strict punishments for actions like OP, then you support what they did”…that’s a very dangerous comment..your characterizing me on baseless grounds…very dangerous rhetoric there

    My opinion is that that if you think hate speech is ok to use, you should be banned from all platforms permanently. If Miike only banned him from the forums then I would respect his decision but I would suggest a full ban.

    Members of the LGBTQIA+ community deserve to enjoy life but they're attacked daily, especially here in the U.S. They are constantly having to fight for the right to live a normal life because of people like OP.

    Who you love in life shouldn't EVER be a concern to anyone. We're humans. We HAVE to do better for each other. Most of this world, and what feels like even more so here in the U.S., has become a terrible place because people want to control other people.

    So no, I don't care if the person likes to play the game. If they're that hateful, take it all away.
    Plenty of ppl on the forums have violated kabams hate speech terms and have been put in the forum prison or had forum access banned…I think 30 days of that would have been fine …this is one platform of chat and the game has its own platform..I say keep them separate

    They are operated by the same company. They aren't separate. These forums are used exclusively for MCOC THE GAME. They are about getting help and information for the game.

    Again, ANYONE who uses hate speech should be automatically perma banned in game and on forums past, present and future. Whether they were in the past doesn't matter because it's already in the past. This isn't a court of law and precedent doesn't matter here. It's obvious what side you're fighting for though.
    I’m on the side that bans him in the forums first

  • Phantomfire500Phantomfire500 Member Posts: 232 ★★
    Frnkielo said:

    ahmynuts said:

    Frnkielo said:

    Frnkielo said:

    @Kabam Miike wow I have to say that is an abuse of power to ban a customer in game for words on a forum..the forum and the game are two different entities and doing what you did is not right..if something had been said on the global chat then apply your terms and services to that but this is a website..you represent a business and should put your personal beliefs and emotions aside and only apply to what you are policing..you are moderating a forum so apply your ban to account here..these tactics are wrong and seem to intimidate others from saying something that you may use your power to affect them in game

    womp womp
    This isn’t very constructive especially coming from a YouTuber…so you support cyber bullying of me?



    I don't think you know what cyberbullying is
    Do you care to define it and what constitutes it in your opinion?
    I'd argue that there's a harassment element to it that goes beyond your opinion being unpopular in a public forum, and that if you can stop posting and wait for like 2 days for the thread to go cold and then receive no further correspondence from the "cyberbullies", then it isn't cyberbullying.
  • FrnkieloFrnkielo Member Posts: 311 ★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Frnkielo said:

    Frnkielo said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Frnkielo said:

    Simply think a forum ban first is appropriate…30 day in game ban..too extreme

    Why? You said in another post that if they were abusive in global chat then you could see banning their game account. But why not just ban them from global?

    You said Kabam cannot just ban for no reason or without a very specific TOS violation. I responded to that post, so when you say you simply think a forum ban is appropriate, that's not the only thing you think. You also think Kabam has to justify game bans in a very specific way. I believe there's sufficient evidence to refute that belief.

    Going back to this belief, this is a question of judgment, not of fact. There's no way to prove or disprove that a game ban is the correct response. I gave a rationale for why such a ban would be appropriate. Why do you think the punishment for abusive forum conduct *must* be limited to only the forums? Are you saying every player gets to have one chance to do literally anything on the forums, and no matter how egregious the conduct they can do it knowing they are safe from any significant punishment at all, especially if they have no intent of using the forums for any other purpose?

    Yes exactly…the person shouldn’t be banned in game until they do something in game…when they go to global chat and violate terms then ban them…they got banned in the forum keep it in the forum

    Why is that for you to decide? This isn't even remotely an adequate response to what @DNA3000 said at all lol
    Obviously it’s not for me to decide …it’s my opinion..people have them and are entitled to them…I can feel the anger in responses at the idea of not banning in game
    I wouldn't call it anger. I would call it frustration. Frustration that for years cheaters got off with slaps on the wrist. Frustration that trolls think weekends on the forums are The Purge. Frustration that at many times in the past Kabam was slow to take action against the disruptive, the fraudulent, the borderline criminal.

    In the past year or so, there's been a shift. Bans are more frequent, and more escalatory. Especially damaging behavior draws permanent bans more often. The three strikes rule was made subject to judgment, and not a pass to break the rules multiple times. Abusive conduct is more severely punished, and that punishment now has way more teeth. And cheats and rulebreakers are even called out now, when they make the idiot mistake of deliberately calling attention to themselves, in effect personally outing themselves and escaping the umbrella of privacy protection.

    The vast overwhelming majority of players find these to be positive changes, because 99% of all players don't cheat, don't abuse the platform, don't do heinous things. But with these changes has been a teeny tiny backlash from a small set of players who either a) are now in greater jeopardy for their actions, b) supportive of players they know that are now in greater jeopardy, c) worried they might be next, or d) for whatever reason electing to argue theoretical principles almost no one cares about in practical matters. Now that Kabam is doing what probably most players think they should have been doing from the start, they see a tiny group of players coming to the defense of the most exceptionally unwanted segments of the playerbase.

    Are they angry? Some, maybe. But I think most are not so much angry as perfectly willing to unload on what they perceive as rabble rousing.

    I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm not even a little angry, or triggered, or even especially frustrated. We've been living in a drought for a very long time, and it is finally raining. When I see people standing in the street with umbrellas complaining about the weather, I'm not angry. Their complaints won't stop the rain. I'm not frustrated either. But I also have no problem characterizing those complaints as, well, let's say counterproductive.
    With as much respect as possible and I mean that sincerely….you sound angry

  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,020 ★★★★★
    Omg how did I miss out on the part that we got like a free pass to troll OP for being a Homophobe...
    Man...I cant find a connection to my champs, and now ripping on the OP seems no fun now ..
    My day is going terrible.
  • ReignkingTWReignkingTW Member Posts: 2,774 ★★★★★
    ahmynuts said:

    Damn for once I missed something wild. If this vote were rigged shriek would have won

    Same, I had a 5 hour drive...
  • Ming_Mow129Ming_Mow129 Member Posts: 54
    Never heard of any of those champs other than fat man but whatever let's go tarantula
  • startropicsstartropics Member Posts: 865 ★★★★
    so did people not turn up for blob then?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,640 Guardian

    DNA3000 said:

    Omg how did I miss out on the part that we got like a free pass to troll OP for being a Homophobe...
    Man...I cant find a connection to my champs, and now ripping on the OP seems no fun now ..
    My day is going terrible.

    Yeah, I know. I mean even with the green light, I don’t want to descent into the muck to do that. After all, I think I should have more Pride in my posts than the OP apparently did.
    You have a reputation..
    I DON'T 😭😭😭
    My reputation for sarcastic word play has not always preceded me effectively.
  • pseudosanepseudosane Member, Guardian Posts: 3,970 Guardian
    Frnkielo said:

    @Kabam Miike wow I have to say that is an abuse of power to ban a customer in game for words on a forum..the forum and the game are two different entities and doing what you did is not right..if something had been said on the global chat then apply your terms and services to that but this is a website..you represent a business and should put your personal beliefs and emotions aside and only apply to what you are policing..you are moderating a forum so apply your ban to account here..these tactics are wrong and seem to intimidate others from saying something that you may use your power to affect them in game

    Actions have consequences. That player learnt that.
This discussion has been closed.