Funny how Dll was flexing on his stream about it being just some 'temporary unhappiness' among the top players, like the rest of the BG scene is untouched... lol, okay buddy.
Never getting another dime from me. You used up all your good will.
What will it take for you to actually go away though?
When shills like this stop posting.
It's a mobile game bro. You're not some factory worker fighting the power.
It’s a mobile game bro. You aren’t some chivalrous knight defending the kingdom
Defending Kabam by suggesting that miserable people just quit?
Your whole schtick is to play devil’s advocate. It is certainly tiresome. Kabam does a lot right, but they really mess up in areas and the constant gripes from the community have resulted in this being addressed to a degree. Lots of work to do, but communication and responses to community members does a lot. Were you around for the infamous roadmap? What about for 12.0? There are times where the build up of frustrations nets a significant shift in the games future plans. If you don’t like the “miserable people” that play this game, take your own advice and quit. You’re played out and all you do is complain about other people complaining/venting frustrations. Its like your whole life is wrapped up in arguing with people on a forum for a mobile game…brutal existence, bud.
Go back and look at the types of comments I respond to. It's never in response to people offering constructive feedback or specific criticism. It's the Eeyores who post things like "I'm done with you, kabam, you've lost all your good will with me," etc... Sorry, it's like a car accident, I can't look away... These people also dilute the impact of any good faith suggestions and feedback because they're just piling on and don't really care about any changes. Nothing Kabam does will ever satisfy them. And nothing Kabam does will ever make them leave.
Then why respond? If these people have nothing constructive to say, will never change, are just “Eeyores,” then why engage? By your own admission, your responses aren’t to anyone offering anything constructive so they fall on deaf ears. I don’t really understand the focus on non-value added posters if your target is to add to the overall conversation. You do you, bud, but its a little hypocritical to focus on folks you deem as “never satisfied” when your focus ultimately lands on them rather than adding to the conversation that moves forward with constructive criticism.
Probably just indulgence on my part. You're obviously correct, there is no need to respond to the Eeyores and bad-faith complainers. I need to exercise more restraint in my posts.
This dude reminds me of the new guy at work who somehow knows everything, drags out meetings repeating the boss and never shuts up 🙄
Don’t worry experience eventually humbles these folks. But it shows that it’s a good time to be a newer player at least.
Funny how Dll was flexing on his stream about it being just some 'temporary unhappiness' among the top players, like the rest of the BG scene is untouched... lol, okay buddy.
Typical kabam employee attitude. They don’t care about the player base they are all so out of touch
Never getting another dime from me. You used up all your good will.
What will it take for you to actually go away though?
When shills like this stop posting.
It's a mobile game bro. You're not some factory worker fighting the power.
It’s a mobile game bro. You aren’t some chivalrous knight defending the kingdom
Defending Kabam by suggesting that miserable people just quit?
Your whole schtick is to play devil’s advocate. It is certainly tiresome. Kabam does a lot right, but they really mess up in areas and the constant gripes from the community have resulted in this being addressed to a degree. Lots of work to do, but communication and responses to community members does a lot. Were you around for the infamous roadmap? What about for 12.0? There are times where the build up of frustrations nets a significant shift in the games future plans. If you don’t like the “miserable people” that play this game, take your own advice and quit. You’re played out and all you do is complain about other people complaining/venting frustrations. Its like your whole life is wrapped up in arguing with people on a forum for a mobile game…brutal existence, bud.
Go back and look at the types of comments I respond to. It's never in response to people offering constructive feedback or specific criticism. It's the Eeyores who post things like "I'm done with you, kabam, you've lost all your good will with me," etc... Sorry, it's like a car accident, I can't look away... These people also dilute the impact of any good faith suggestions and feedback because they're just piling on and don't really care about any changes. Nothing Kabam does will ever satisfy them. And nothing Kabam does will ever make them leave.
Then why respond? If these people have nothing constructive to say, will never change, are just “Eeyores,” then why engage? By your own admission, your responses aren’t to anyone offering anything constructive so they fall on deaf ears. I don’t really understand the focus on non-value added posters if your target is to add to the overall conversation. You do you, bud, but its a little hypocritical to focus on folks you deem as “never satisfied” when your focus ultimately lands on them rather than adding to the conversation that moves forward with constructive criticism.
Probably just indulgence on my part. You're obviously correct, there is no need to respond to the Eeyores and bad-faith complainers. I need to exercise more restraint in my posts.
This dude reminds me of the new guy at work who somehow knows everything, drags out meetings repeating the boss and never shuts up 🙄
Don’t worry experience eventually humbles these folks. But it shows that it’s a good time to be a newer player at least.
You're insulting me even when I conceded the guy's criticism of me? Yes, I am new, but maybe you've been here too long, and could use a new hobby in your life...
Never getting another dime from me. You used up all your good will.
What will it take for you to actually go away though?
When shills like this stop posting.
It's a mobile game bro. You're not some factory worker fighting the power.
It’s a mobile game bro. You aren’t some chivalrous knight defending the kingdom
Defending Kabam by suggesting that miserable people just quit?
Your whole schtick is to play devil’s advocate. It is certainly tiresome. Kabam does a lot right, but they really mess up in areas and the constant gripes from the community have resulted in this being addressed to a degree. Lots of work to do, but communication and responses to community members does a lot. Were you around for the infamous roadmap? What about for 12.0? There are times where the build up of frustrations nets a significant shift in the games future plans. If you don’t like the “miserable people” that play this game, take your own advice and quit. You’re played out and all you do is complain about other people complaining/venting frustrations. Its like your whole life is wrapped up in arguing with people on a forum for a mobile game…brutal existence, bud.
Go back and look at the types of comments I respond to. It's never in response to people offering constructive feedback or specific criticism. It's the Eeyores who post things like "I'm done with you, kabam, you've lost all your good will with me," etc... Sorry, it's like a car accident, I can't look away... These people also dilute the impact of any good faith suggestions and feedback because they're just piling on and don't really care about any changes. Nothing Kabam does will ever satisfy them. And nothing Kabam does will ever make them leave.
Then why respond? If these people have nothing constructive to say, will never change, are just “Eeyores,” then why engage? By your own admission, your responses aren’t to anyone offering anything constructive so they fall on deaf ears. I don’t really understand the focus on non-value added posters if your target is to add to the overall conversation. You do you, bud, but its a little hypocritical to focus on folks you deem as “never satisfied” when your focus ultimately lands on them rather than adding to the conversation that moves forward with constructive criticism.
Probably just indulgence on my part. You're obviously correct, there is no need to respond to the Eeyores and bad-faith complainers. I need to exercise more restraint in my posts.
This dude reminds me of the new guy at work who somehow knows everything, drags out meetings repeating the boss and never shuts up 🙄
Don’t worry experience eventually humbles these folks. But it shows that it’s a good time to be a newer player at least.
You're insulting me even when I conceded the guy's criticism of me? Yes, I am new, but maybe you've been here too long, and could use a new hobby in your life...
Let's try to keep it on topic crowd. I intend to read every comment in this thread and I'd prefer not to sift through 100 pages of people arguing about something else.
Never getting another dime from me. You used up all your good will.
What will it take for you to actually go away though?
When shills like this stop posting.
It's a mobile game bro. You're not some factory worker fighting the power.
It’s a mobile game bro. You aren’t some chivalrous knight defending the kingdom
Defending Kabam by suggesting that miserable people just quit?
Your whole schtick is to play devil’s advocate. It is certainly tiresome. Kabam does a lot right, but they really mess up in areas and the constant gripes from the community have resulted in this being addressed to a degree. Lots of work to do, but communication and responses to community members does a lot. Were you around for the infamous roadmap? What about for 12.0? There are times where the build up of frustrations nets a significant shift in the games future plans. If you don’t like the “miserable people” that play this game, take your own advice and quit. You’re played out and all you do is complain about other people complaining/venting frustrations. Its like your whole life is wrapped up in arguing with people on a forum for a mobile game…brutal existence, bud.
Go back and look at the types of comments I respond to. It's never in response to people offering constructive feedback or specific criticism. It's the Eeyores who post things like "I'm done with you, kabam, you've lost all your good will with me," etc... Sorry, it's like a car accident, I can't look away... These people also dilute the impact of any good faith suggestions and feedback because they're just piling on and don't really care about any changes. Nothing Kabam does will ever satisfy them. And nothing Kabam does will ever make them leave.
Then why respond? If these people have nothing constructive to say, will never change, are just “Eeyores,” then why engage? By your own admission, your responses aren’t to anyone offering anything constructive so they fall on deaf ears. I don’t really understand the focus on non-value added posters if your target is to add to the overall conversation. You do you, bud, but its a little hypocritical to focus on folks you deem as “never satisfied” when your focus ultimately lands on them rather than adding to the conversation that moves forward with constructive criticism.
Probably just indulgence on my part. You're obviously correct, there is no need to respond to the Eeyores and bad-faith complainers. I need to exercise more restraint in my posts.
This dude reminds me of the new guy at work who somehow knows everything, drags out meetings repeating the boss and never shuts up 🙄
Don’t worry experience eventually humbles these folks. But it shows that it’s a good time to be a newer player at least.
You're insulting me even when I conceded the guy's criticism of me? Yes, I am new, but maybe you've been here too long, and could use a new hobby in your life...
Sounds like that Tiggered you there Pooh Bear.
haha, pooh bear is actually sweet, so I'll take that...
Before I rant I want to say that I love this game and more than anything I want it to succeed. Like I’m genuinely addicted and would love to spend on this game as my primary hobby but for now I’m taking a step back from spending.
With that being said, I think this post and its underlying tone is indicative of why the game is where it’s at today. It feels extremely passive aggressive and patronizing especially towards end game players and content creators. I’m not going to address every little item but I want to address somethings that really stuck out to me as misleading:
1. Calling battlegrounds “niche” while making the point that a majority of money made doesn’t come from battlegrounds players in order to justify a lack of attention given to the mode.
Point: let’s say we have a gym filled with 10k people and they all got to choose any number they want between 1 and 100. Once everyone has picked a number it’s time to collect some data. Let’s say we find that 10% of people picked the number 20. Now someone could look at that data and say “Wow! People really like the number 20. We should pay close attention to that number as we run these test over time.” And I would argue these people are absolutely correct. Butttt another person could come along and claim to people outside of data collection team “Nah…a vast majority of people picked a number that wasn’t 20. We could pay attention to it but it’s really not that important.” This person is technically correct but is greatly misleading people because relative to all other numbers individually, the number 20 actually makes up a huge (much higher) percent of what people chose (you would expect it to be around 1% but it came out to 10%)
I think this example is exactly what’s happening because if it wasn’t a big deal this post wouldn’t exist. Bg players might not make up a huge percent of the player base compared to the game as a whole (doesn’t makes sense to make that comparison). But relative to all other game modes INDIVIDUALLY it’s actually an extremely important game mode. And that doesn’t even take into account that it has a ridiculously high retention rate. It doesn’t account for how it affects aw participation (idk if that could be accurately calculated). I.e. if bg players stopped playing the game due to how bad bg is right now so many alliances would fall apart and then aw would fall apart. These modes are most definitely interconnected. Bg (along with aw imo) is absolutely necessary to retain end game players. Without it the retention rate of consistent customers over long periods of time would drop off a cliff and I think y’all know that’s exactly the case which is why this post was rushed out almost the same day that a boycott was called for.
2. Correlation is NOT causation. The claim is made that the focus on casual player base is what led to the first year of player growth in a long time. I could just as easily claim that the release of Marvel Rivals is what caused the growth because its release coincides with MCOCs growth (I would be willing to bet the highest levels of growth were seen in Q3 and Q4). I along with a few other of my friends quite literally started playing this game again because of Marvel Rivals (there’s weirdly a lot of similarities). But that would be illogical for me to claim that the release of Rivals is the cause of growth in mcoc player base. And there are a ton of other variables that probably had at least some effect on player growth. Were all of these variables accounted for when making the claim that a focus on casual player led to growth? I very strongly doubt it. So not only is it wrong to make the claim but it’s also a dangerous mindset to have. Cause let’s say you focus on comp this year and there’s a decline. Following the line of logic from last year it would be (incorrectly) claimed that the focus on comp is what led to a decline.
2b. And why do the two have to be separated so much in the first place? You can update both consistently, right? Only reasons that wouldn’t be the case is if profits have been misused over the years, let’s say trying to make new games that failed. I apologize for the snark but that’s how this patronizing post felt to many of us (it read like “you guys really don’t know what you’re talking about and you’re not that important but fine here’s bone”)
3. Lastly, why was this post passive aggressive towards content creators and end game players? And not just this post, but you guys consistently over time make it feel like an us vs them. They are high paying customers who bring a high level of visibility to the game. As a multi-decade gamer I’ve seen this kind of interaction between devs and content creators kill games as content creators walk away (for some reason it’s like this across the entire gaming industry most likely due to unchecked ego from both devs and creators but one side supplies the money so…)
There’s much more to say but I’ll leave it at this for now. I really hope there a mentality shift at Kabam cause I genuinely love this game and want to play it for years to come. (Like the champion development team is on fire. I wish we could talk more about that but instead here we are barely acknowledging what an amazing job they’ve been doing.)
Funny how Dll was flexing on his stream about it being just some 'temporary unhappiness' among the top players, like the rest of the BG scene is untouched... lol, okay buddy.
Very similar to the karatemike 4loki situation lagacy mentioned tbh. One person might say something but that doesn't make it true and they dont speak for everyone.
Back on topic… Radiance sounds good in theory but I’m genuinely concerned looking at what Mysterium as a currency has done to side quests. Not only is it another neglected store… the side quests themselves feel like cheap carbon copies of the last full one.
Streamlining is great and I like having a singular currency that carries month to month but these got strip mined and it’s even duller than AQ now.
Let's try to keep it on topic crowd. I intend to read every comment in this thread and I'd prefer not to sift through 100 pages of people arguing about something else.
Really insightful stuff here @Kabam Crashed " Great read and changes for the most part.
Id like to add that there is 1 bucket i think you forgot to touch on. It specifically has to do with those people who push on the very last day (or just very close to the end).
Every season i get to around mysterium on the weekend before the reset. This is when I can mainly play the game, due to work and school restrictions taking up most of my day during the week. However, on the very last day or 2 is where a lot of the "sniping" happens, as the scores change drastically. This is also where some of the "soft modders" come out, but i wont talk about that here.
My point is, because the way its set up right now is all that matters is where you end up at the end of the season, this gives players an incentive to wait towards the last few days to push and as a result, people like myself get knocked down a tier just simply due to the fact we dont have time to play as much during .the week.
You may be saying the incentive to push for radiance by week X could help here, but this is easy to work around , as you can just push to that rank and get the objective then wait for the end to "snipe" players. After all, it takes days for the decay rating to kick in (and even that can be circumvented by doing just 1 match)
My suggestion would be to have the "GC rank/bucket rewards" be based off if you can reach the rank rather than finish , due to the sniping reason (and botters/modders that come out towards the end)
After all, you did say that the data shows that:
1) BGs is a niche game mode compared to other game modes that more players take part in
And
2) GC players pushing in the higher ranks are the least likely to stop playing regardless of the extend of the rewards
As much as I absolutely love the Daily Super Event I think this has become part of the problem for Kabam. We now have a daily benchmark of what great rewards look like that we can get for a few minutes of auto fighting. So when we have to spend hours and hours playing the game to get rewards that don’t compare to what we get daily nearly no effort, it does make you feel like what’s the point in putting the effort in. That’s the way it’s felt for AQ, BG, MEQ, Incursions… the rewards have been awful for a long time. So motivation to play is at nearly an all time low.
I do think the post by Crash is amazing. It does feel like a genuine attempt to provide real insight into how we’ve gotten here. It’s not answered everything but it has helped to show where things are heading.
Now I do think all of this could have been avoided by going back to the old road maps to give us the players some insight into the medium and long term direction of the game. I thought the road maps were great. Where they failed was the radio silence when some we went significantly passed the estimated time frames new additions were supposed to drop. All the road maps need are a quick update as part of the next years road map of what from last year is still outstanding and are they still intended to be input into the game or dropped.
Whatever the changes, PLEASE get rid of Cheaters .. especially ppl from Russia and China ... not saying they all the same but those 2 countries have bad reputation to have hackers work for governments so I'm sure they experts at cheating... whenever I fight against them I win 1 fight and the 2nd fight they do something to kick me out of game on my end saying something about no signal to server and when logging back in I find out i lost the match gets me so mad as F@$% ... stop giving them a tiny slap in the face with a warning... punish them with a 1 month Ban minimum or permanent Ban ... trust me they will spread the word to their other hacker budies and stop doing it not wanting to risk their accounts.
As much as I absolutely love the Daily Super Event I think this has become part of the problem for Kabam. We now have a daily benchmark of what great rewards look like that we can get for a few minutes of auto fighting. So when we have to spend hours and hours playing the game to get rewards that don’t compare to what we get daily nearly no effort, it does make you feel like what’s the point in putting the effort in. That’s the way it’s felt for AQ, BG, MEQ, Incursions… the rewards have been awful for a long time. So motivation to play is at nearly an all time low.
I do think the post by Crash is amazing. It does feel like a genuine attempt to provide real insight into how we’ve gotten here. It’s not answered everything but it has helped to show where things are heading.
Now I do think all of this could have been avoided by going back to the old road maps to give us the players some insight into the medium and long term direction of the game. I thought the road maps were great. Where they failed was the radio silence when some we went significantly passed the estimated time frames new additions were supposed to drop. All the road maps need are a quick update as part of the next years road map of what from last year is still outstanding and are they still intended to be input into the game or dropped.
Can't say I agree about the Daily Super. It's been one of the better additions, but the Roadmaps were good. I think one of the pain points was the misunderstanding of what they were. They were really a tentative outline, and not set in stone. As some things didn't pan out in execution, they became a "broken promise" in the eyes of the Players. If this were to be reinstated, I would suggest being very clear about the fact that things can change.
@Kabam Crashed I just wanted to take a moment to express sincere appreciation for this post, and for the thought you put into it, as well as the decisions underpinning it. I find these inside looks at the design process for a game like this to be absolutely captivating, and i have never seen such willingess to expose the thought process in a forum like this before.
As much as I absolutely love the Daily Super Event I think this has become part of the problem for Kabam. We now have a daily benchmark of what great rewards look like that we can get for a few minutes of auto fighting. So when we have to spend hours and hours playing the game to get rewards that don’t compare to what we get daily nearly no effort, it does make you feel like what’s the point in putting the effort in. That’s the way it’s felt for AQ, BG, MEQ, Incursions… the rewards have been awful for a long time. So motivation to play is at nearly an all time low.
I do think the post by Crash is amazing. It does feel like a genuine attempt to provide real insight into how we’ve gotten here. It’s not answered everything but it has helped to show where things are heading.
Now I do think all of this could have been avoided by going back to the old road maps to give us the players some insight into the medium and long term direction of the game. I thought the road maps were great. Where they failed was the radio silence when some we went significantly passed the estimated time frames new additions were supposed to drop. All the road maps need are a quick update as part of the next years road map of what from last year is still outstanding and are they still intended to be input into the game or dropped.
Can't say I agree about the Daily Super. It's been one of the better additions, but the Roadmaps were good. I think one of the pain points was the misunderstanding of what they were. They were really a tentative outline, and not set in stone. As some things didn't pan out in execution, they became a "broken promise" in the eyes of the Players. If this were to be reinstated, I would suggest being very clear about the fact that things can change.
Oh I personally think the Daily Super Event is great. My point was, it makes the bread and butter content look awful by comparison. From a game economy perspective it must be difficult for kabam as the daily super makes buffing rewards in a meaningful way difficult when we can get a 7* Champions and half a T4a every 20 days (among other things) by doing some auto fighting.
I could have believed you if you reacted swiftly (instead to sleep on the reward update for 20 months in BG for instance). Now it only looks as damage control from your part, Kabam. You may still fool some people with your empty words and false promises but I'm beyond that point.
Never getting another dime from me. You used up all your good will.
What will it take for you to actually go away though?
When shills like this stop posting.
It's a mobile game bro. You're not some factory worker fighting the power.
It’s a mobile game bro. You aren’t some chivalrous knight defending the kingdom
Defending Kabam by suggesting that miserable people just quit?
Your whole schtick is to play devil’s advocate. It is certainly tiresome. Kabam does a lot right, but they really mess up in areas and the constant gripes from the community have resulted in this being addressed to a degree. Lots of work to do, but communication and responses to community members does a lot. Were you around for the infamous roadmap? What about for 12.0? There are times where the build up of frustrations nets a significant shift in the games future plans. If you don’t like the “miserable people” that play this game, take your own advice and quit. You’re played out and all you do is complain about other people complaining/venting frustrations. Its like your whole life is wrapped up in arguing with people on a forum for a mobile game…brutal existence, bud.
Go back and look at the types of comments I respond to. It's never in response to people offering constructive feedback or specific criticism. It's the Eeyores who post things like "I'm done with you, kabam, you've lost all your good will with me," etc... Sorry, it's like a car accident, I can't look away... These people also dilute the impact of any good faith suggestions and feedback because they're just piling on and don't really care about any changes. Nothing Kabam does will ever satisfy them. And nothing Kabam does will ever make them leave.
Then why respond? If these people have nothing constructive to say, will never change, are just “Eeyores,” then why engage? By your own admission, your responses aren’t to anyone offering anything constructive so they fall on deaf ears. I don’t really understand the focus on non-value added posters if your target is to add to the overall conversation. You do you, bud, but its a little hypocritical to focus on folks you deem as “never satisfied” when your focus ultimately lands on them rather than adding to the conversation that moves forward with constructive criticism.
Probably just indulgence on my part. You're obviously correct, there is no need to respond to the Eeyores and bad-faith complainers. I need to exercise more restraint in my posts.
I appreciate your reflection. I think that shows character. Good on you, bud.
Per crashed’s recent post, he would like us to stay on topic and since he is reading through all of these, what do you think of the proposed changes?
I just read another forum user’s post about the concern with game modes growing more stale with the universal currency with an example of the mysterium/side quest situation. I tend to agree with that user (apologies for missing your name!) and would offer that I am really interested in the dev diaries that address the other areas in game. I am hopeful given what this post from crash included.
The last piece of feedback I would like to offer is more for the idea creation and problem solving on Kabam’s end. A lot of us don’t fully understand what goes into the operation and maintenance of this game and given the massive scale, it might behoove the game team to have some “town hall” type live streams where users can submit legitimate ideas for exploration. I think Kabam has implemented some summoner ideas in the past and obviously the CCP program is kind of an intermediary, but maybe crowdsourcing some new ideas would be of benefit. I have read a lot of really great ideas on the forums over the years and while I am sure Kabam has read some of them, it might be nice to see some feedback on what ideas they are noodling on and how many they are seriously considering (and why).
Either way, really appreciate the post, crashed. They are always a joy to read through.
Really appreciate this post. This may have been addressed somewhere and I just missed it but what’s the point of Elder Marks with the solo event being eliminated (besides the alliance event ranked milestones for the top BG focused alliances)?
Well, thanks, it seems these are good updates, for part of the players, maybe for the biggest part. But I personally do not like 5 of these changes and I think this will be the point when I actually give up on BG completely.
1. Removal of the Solo Event It was one of the reason why I played BG. For me Bg is boring and rather the mode which I have to play. And I did it only to reach the final milestone in solo event. I never wanted to go far in GC, so now if you push these rewards in Gc, there is no more point for me playing.
3. New objectives to reward pushing higher, faster Previously I got to GC at the end of 2nd week - start of 3d week. I just do not have that much time to play BG a lot. Reach GC in first week? 100 points in second and 200 in third? How many hours should I play Bg each day to do it?
6. New ELO tuning and matchmaking settings This seems will work OK only for top players, not for average players. For average player it may become more dramatic when you just always get opponent with extra juicy deck and you always lose.
7. Restructure Gladiator’s Circuit rank buckets So, let me guess, again, the most juicy rewards will be for highest ranks and for low ranks there will be outdated stuff…
9. Seeding review This will help only top levels and give them huuuge opportunity to progress over objectives from #3 in first week, while all others will have all the pain progressing through it.
As for myself, I do not like PvP at all. I did not like incursions when the only way to play them was to find somebody and do it together. It was a huge improvement to introduce solo mode. The thing that would make me play this mode more is the solo mode, PVE, not PvP. So I can do it with my speed and my desire. When I do not need to wait 15-30 seconds just staring on the screen and waiting fir opponent to decide. Or not waiting 1 minute for opponent to finish paused fight when I already finished mine. So, thanks, good job, I hope this mode will find its huge player base, but I am not a part of it. Quite likely my opinion is not a popular one, but it is mine and it is my personal feelings about that. The saddest thing is that this mode is not an optional one. And will not be. I will still have to play it as otherwise I will just miss some essential rewards. Game should differentiate PvP and PvE and none of these modes should be mandatory to play in order to progress with other players if person do not like it at all. When Kabam find the proper solution for this, everyone will be happy.
Hey crash I just wanna tell you that you're the far more worst person I've ever seen and whatever you touch surely dies... please ruin the game more so that you and you game will sink just like the kabam's other games went bankrupt, before you come to this game everything is fine and will but when you entered everything went wrong and ugh I just tired of your decisions you said "the mistake is on me" well that's not a proud moment crash it's a shame where you hated by your own community.
I appreciate the transparency. Its always good to hear more about what is actually going on behind the scenes instead of being led around by the nose and being forced to rely on faith that something better just has to be in the works. Still, there's just a few things that standout here as odd to me and flat out don't sit right.
Maybe I'm just buying into the same logical fallacies and confirmation bias, but unlike you all, I don't have access to the hard data. Still, the same way buying into popular trends can be a pitfall is the same way just looking at numbers and seeing the forest instead of the trees can taint someone's understanding of a situation.
The first thing that stands out is the idea that BGs is "niche" or that it being the most important game mode is a logical trap. You say that the vast majority of players do not or never have played BGs seriously, that BGs isn't how you guys make money because the vast majority of your revenue comes from players who don't take it seriously. I call cap. Not on that factoid itself, but how its being used out of context to build the foundation of this argument being used to justify not only deprioritizing the mode but outright ignoring it.
Lets start with the mode being niche. Instead of just accepting that for what is it, lets look at just why it might be in the state that it is. You said it yourself, BGs is a mode that was encouraging players to not play it as intended. The best strategy was to farm and get easy points, then move up later in the season to confirm your final placement for rewards. But that's not where the problem ends.
If players are farming instead of pushing, its means that you have players who should be at higher ranks or even in the gladiator's circuit ruining the experience for players who were never feasibly going to push that far. When your top players aren't taking the game mode seriously and are ruining the already broken experience for the average player that you all keep pretending to be looking out for, of course the average player also isn't going to take the mode "seriously."
Still, every day for the past 26 seasons of BGs, every communication channel has been flooded with players constantly complaining about this problem and its effects. It's come in different manners, such as "poor matchmaking," "terrible experiences," "not worth playing," "I hate playing bgs," etc. Yet all of these problems people have been complaining about can be traced back to the problem of the mode not encouraging proper gameplay as intended, and the other highly debated issue of it not being a mode that properly facilitates a fair experience (or at the least rewards you based on the quality of your competition.)
So why is there such a central focus on the mode being niche? Why was the discussion not in the direction of, "how do we make BGs worth engaging seriously for all level of players?" Look at alliance war. Regardless of what you all have said in the past concerning low participation levels in the mode, it's still functionally (in terms of how its structured not based on actual engagement, retention, or any other sort of hard data) in a better place than what you admit BGs is. Like the diversity pain point of people spamming serpents. Instead of seeing AW as a niche game mode, you all addressed the pain point and changed how diversity was scored. Ontop of that, AW received the loyalty crystal, multiple store updates and redesigns, and not just the showcase, but the class-based showcase quests.
I'm sure its not the intention, but when I read this section, I get the same sentiment that was being passed around for the past two gifting events. "Endgame players are a loud minority who don't reflect the actual player base and its general sentiments towards the game." You all created BGs as a mode that is made for endgame players over casual, intended or not, and even worse you broke it to the point where there is no space for the average player to see the point in taking it seriously beyond getting what they can and getting out. You all created the problem you're using to justify not prioritizing fixing it. Yet another mode with similar issues and that was previously in the same place BGs currently is has received bailout after bailout and experiment after experiment.
And again, the niche point and underestimating its importance doesn't sit well in another dozen ways. I feel like you guys are taking data points out of context to make unfair comparisons. Without even engaging in the argument over whether those points are legitimate, an argument I would have no foot to stand on because I have no access to the data you're looking at, lets dive into the visible evidence.
From my own experience with the mode, BGs is arguably the second-best place in the game for fast roster expansion. Thats right behind story at number one, and imo beating out everest content at number two due to the lack of access non-endgame players have to those modes. I can personally attest to abusing BGs for rapid roster progression as a TB and even as a Paragon player. BGs rewards through making pushes and clearing the store were more accessible than waiting a season for AW to end, or waiting for the AQ week to end, or waiting for the next week of SQ, or biting the bullet and pushing through story/everest content. Even when those rewards were eventually available, I was getting so much out of suffering through BGs by then that there was no comparison. So its very odd to me that we are getting this weird sentiment of BGs being niche based on how seriously people engage in the mode, when on paper its such a shortcut to resources that you would normally have to wait to get, outside of story that comes down to whether you can clear it or not.
Regardless, how seriously people engage in the mode doesn't change the fact that it has a large community, and that most of it is your vocal playerbase. That means something beyond just being a pawn to sacrifice to chase after abusing your Queen, this "casual community" that you've been "focusing on" in exchange. Even that comparison doesn't work, because the idea of there needing to be a choice is entirely artificial. BGs could accommodate everyone, but you all structured it in a manner where it doesn't. Instead of choosing to change that, you use it as proof that it wasn't worth investing effort into fixing instead.
Ontop of that, kabam perpetuates the problem of BGs being the face of the game, regardless of whether it's true in terms of the play data or not. Champions are literally marketed for BGs, whether it's through the content of the deep dives of the past, to the recent shift in official affiliated content creation where every youtuber is doing literal bgs health-pool/defender showcases for new champs. You guys even used BGs are a place to incentivize the deathless chase by putting a piece there and expanded on it with the current chase after light essence. Your rebalancing program references champion performances in PVP content, such as BGs and AW. Monthly objectives have been tied to winning matches. The daily super event gives an insane amount of points for just winning. Ontop of that, the rewards are once again just better in BGs through the store. Thats not praise for how good the store is, but a nod to how bad things are in some of these other areas that were supposedly "prioritized." Even after all the focus on other areas to accommodate casual players, that again you all are responsible for turning off from BGs because of how you structured it, most of them still are outright not worth engaging in when taken in comparison to what you could get from BGs.
Instead of seeing BGs content and focus as a trend that doesn't match data, why isn't the focus on why the data doesn't match the trend? These people on the hype train of the trend aren't stupid. Why would they choose to focus on BGs related content creation instead of doing vids on other areas of the game? Beyond the enjoyment of the mode some took pleasure in, everything when it came to tierlists or even just exploring ways to play has circled back to BGs. New champions drop and content creators see the need in making vids explaining how to handle problematic defenders or how and when to utilize certain attackers in BGs style matchups. Yeah, they show footage of taking them into quests and everest lanes, but you always hear them circle back to how a rotation can be put into play for bgs, or how the fight would've been over with a bgs health-pool. Even after you all prioritized other areas of the game, BGs still trended as the face of content. Does that not mean anything?
Forget content creation, what about the actual playerbase who chooses to engage with the mode itself. How about the data on the decisions made by those who engage in the mode? Whether they take it seriously or not, people aren't just ranking serpent, enchantress, and bullseye just because of their usefulness in alliance war or for everest content. They don't leave them out of their decks because they don't take BGs seriously and don't try to win at all. They don't progress their account because the resources just so happened to appear in their inventory. They don't mass rank champions just because they need to do AQ, EQ, SQ, Story and AW. They don't just compete in the mode and not spend any of their tokens ever. What about the use of rankup decisions where champs they take up and bring to BGs aren't used in other modes? What about the progress players have been able to make in other modes because of some level of engagement in battlegrounds? What about the alliances that focus solely on bgs or prioritize participation over other alliance modes?
If its so niche, then why not reference the minimal impact it has had in those scenarios concerning those who engaged with the mode? Why not pull up numbers of sales of champs who have statistically found success in battlegrounds vs those who haven't? Instead its this weird, noone takes it serious, angle. Thats not saying BGs doesn't have high participation, or high participation in relation to the modes you have prioritized. I know you said you didn't want to delay this post by waiting for more statistics to reference, but I think we all be highly interested in seeing the numbers of what it means that BGs is a niche mode that isn't taken seriously. Not even from the angle of proving them right or wrong, but just wrapping our minds around how you all came to that conclusion and left things to the point where you all felt you were better off chasing modes that can't be taken seriously or can't be repeated like bgs without a constant drain of resources that leads to the exact same scenario that we are back in.
And forget arguing about how BGs compares to the rest of the game. Why is that even a focus? Why make these false equivalent comparisons that don't take into account the accountability or context of why BGs is even in a state where those comparison had to be made? Just looking at the next section concerning your prioritization mystifies me. Most of the casual playerbase cannot access the new levels of story content, yet it keeps chugging along with new changes and focuses as intended. Everest content is one and done. Players engage in it and then leave it. Some don't even explore it or touch it in the first place. Yet its been a goal that was prioritized even though its definitively a niche area geared towards a minority of the player base. Most of your long-term goals for endgame players have involved BGs participation through collecting chase items. Again, you continue to implement it now.
The rest of the justifications just don't make sense to me. So focusing on bgs won't solve a declining player base, and better rewards lead to worse overall player retention. Does that not sound like a serious problem? Noone wanted to investigate what was such a pain point about the mode that making the rewards more appealing negatively affected retention? Why not address those pain points instead of abandoning the mode in order to not actually do anything to make everywhere else better? We get this balance of, it was necessary because BGs was an acceptable sacrifice, yet at the same time you're coming to the problem of the game being too big so its time to come back to BGs as part of your plans to consolidate things.
So instead of focusing on the area that could feasibly be the key to consolidating the rest of the game, you focus on facelifts for a bunch of areas that on paper still need work or are still part of the new problem of the game being too big. Instead of fixing the area that seemingly is niche but shouldn't be, you go on to focus on every other niche area of the game that are still depreciating in value. Even worse, now you acknowledge that it isn't feasible to update all the rewards of those modes. So you took the past few years leaving your legs to rot in order to focus on your arms, just to realize that you will eventually have to amputate part of your arms anyway.
And the "how can rewards be bad if accounts are still progressing" is actually annoying. You guys love to toss how far we have progressed since 7 stars have released in our faces. Well what about BGs? How far have the rewards progressed in 18 months? How about this. If we're progressing so fast that we think the rewards are bad, and they have not been updated in months to years, along with the rewards themselves being forced to cover a playerbase that varies from hardstuck at a low progression to practically already qualified for the next progression the moment it drops, how can we not think the rewards are bad? If you guys are running special events where uc cav and tb accounts come out looking like early stage valiants, how do you expect those players to react to the rewards available to them until they actually reach valiant? And thats across modes.
On top of that, you all perpetuate that problem again by releasing new content with insane rewards that leave the monthly items in the dust. We're then proposed this idea of some areas of the game falling behind others and everything can't be valuable. Yeah, they could if you all balanced the areas appropriately. Of course, everything can't be valuable when your current approach is make everest valuable and toss the scraps around as necessary.
Wasn't that half the point of sagas? To unify modes and get a better grip on the rewards being given across sidequests and attached solo events? Reduce complexity and the chance of summoners getting lost at how to get what to do huh and engage where? If its a question of quest difficulty, then maybe don't leave the threat levels in such a bad place where the average skilled tb can clear threat lvl 5 sq in most months with their 6* r3 champs. Its not like we're asking for a back issues update. What is the point of wasting resources on content every month, regardless of how good the dialogue is at times, when its seen as not worth doing and comparatively isn't worth doing either?
I feel like you all are also falling into a pitfall of confirmation bias. Its easy to look at growth and attribute it to certain decisions or focuses on areas of success, but you have to again look at the context. MCOC has had a media blitz over the past few years the likes of which I don't believe this game has ever seen. Ads are literally everywhere. I can't watch youtube shorts these days without seeing random MCOC ads. Every time I scroll through Twitter/X comment sections, I get an ad for a mcoc event like banquet or hunters' market or the anniversary/reunion event. Even when engaging in other games I received ads for mcoc, such as a previous instance with promotion of characters as 7 stars that weren't announced yet or haven't been implemented. There's also the google play partnership, the return to in person cons/event stages, the game moving to 60 fps, the pc release tease, the content creator summits, the twitch/youtube streams, the webstore, promo codes being a thing, and the rise in content creators and content variety (mainly thanks to bgs.)
Ontop of that, the game has been increasingly optimized towards spending your way forward. You can actually buy your way through progressions now. Earlier content has been neutered in every way. Theres passes for everything you could possibly need. Theres way more champs than before. New champions are practically bosses in comparison to the barebones mechanics of yesteryear. The game has implemented more modern mechanics like battle passes and subscriptions. You can practically buy champions in some cases. A pity system is coming. Theres just plenty of reasons for players to give MCOC a shot and stay longer than they used to rather than diving deep into available game modes and enjoying the game for what it is.
In the end, I understand that businesses can't afford to pursue every avenue. Something will always be left behind. But leaving BGs, a mode that is the focus of the wider community whether positive or negative, to the wayside in order to facilitate growth is not a positive, especially when you look at what hasn't been left behind and what has continually been expanded in its place. Its the biggest red flag if anything. The changes are good, but the justifications and logic behind the wait are concerning at best and alarming at worst. The community will always have different concerns than the dev team, but this disconnect on BGs and how its valued in the community vs what data the devs are apparently seeing about the mode is very odd. What still confuses me is how you all have apparently known this but made no moves to rectify the situation or communicate your intention to let things lie. It's like finding out your significant other has just been going through the motions for the past few months. What's next? 9.2 has actually been complete, but you guys decided to prioritize pushing other everest content in its place?
Hello Kabam, I never write, but I have been playing since forever.
I have a few ideas that would get me involved.
Let’s see:
Why not add champs you can claim, just like arenas? Maybe more people would play?
I’m an endgame player and I don’t play battlegrounds for rewards that are scrap compared to my roster.
Getting a champion due to skills seems cool and enticing. Imagine getting champion selectors for 2 stars then drop a 2 and 3 star only season?
In other words, why not a season using only 2 rarities?
Resurrecting 1 through 4 star champs.
I know most end game players are thinking Rank 5 7 stars and 7 star dust, but even then, for casual and competitive, this can be cool to pass time.
Finally, what about 1 star Maestro, Ultron, Thanos etc? Maybe this can be a chase trophy through BG’s. Since they really offer no significant value(no sig ability), would be a collector’s thing.
I do not think BG’s should be where I get my end game stuff. I like it the old way: crazy challenges, AQ, story mode and progression. This way it feels like a special RPG style goal/achievement.
Thanks for the feedback btw! Good to see Kabam actually acknowledging us.
I see they buffed solo milestones and then added them to the VT instead so these are my main concerns now:
First off the elephant in the room, Radiance, you guys are obviously using this as a replacement for BGs store buffs, basically this will be the store specifically for endgame players which will receive updates consistently. My concerns with this are how much Radiance each league will get you, what we'll be able to do with it (prices, quantity etc), the way I see it there are many ways this could go South so I sincerely hope Kabam thinks this one through before implementing and generating even more disappointment after giving us some hope. Second, widening matchmaking gaps, not as big of a deal as Radiance but it could be detrimental to some if they make it too wide so I hope they find some sort of balance there as well.
Really appreciate this post. This may have been addressed somewhere and I just missed it but what’s the point of Elder Marks with the solo event being eliminated (besides the alliance event ranked milestones for the top BG focused alliances)?
Good Point (well, once I understood what you meant).
Elder's Marks matches gave much higher POINTS towards the Solo and Ally Events. With Solo points Event being removed (and think they said Ally one also the following season ?) Without those events, what is the difference between using Elder's Mark, and using Energy ???
Here's what my SUGGESTION would be, that would actually address a number of issues. (not that it will probably get lost in a sea of other comments).
Instead of needing 4 or 5 Medals to advance a Tier, and winning 2 medals vs losing 1 medal.
Make it like 100 Medals. (ok, actually call then POINTS instead, and doesn’t have to be as many as 100, but that is a nice round number, the relative amount of Won/Lost would just be scaled down if they want to use an advancement number of say 20 or 25 instead of 100)
Wins would still earn you more points(medals) than a loss would. BUT, (just like for War Rating +/-) the exact amount would VARY for each match, depending on who you match up against.
**Solving issue with lopsided matches**
Your potential +/- when matched against an Equal opponent would be +40 / -20 (equivalent to a current 4.5 Medal advancement requirement, and similarly only lose half as much on a loss).
Against a little Stronger Opponent might be +50 -15. Against much stronger opponent maybe +60 -10.
Note, your opponent in those matches would have the exact opposite +/- potential. They would not get much for winning against you, but they would suffer greatly if they lost to your weaker team. (*which, obviously then the converse +/- is if YOU were the Weaker team too)
Now, what is considered Stronger/Weaker would have to be something like an expanded Prestige (say, based on your top 15-20 champs, instead of 5 elsewhere prestige is used in game)
And further, would probably have to implement FALLING DOWN a tier if you lose and were at the starting point of a tier. Else people would be fine losing or forfeiting (like currently) when at 0 medals of a new tier. Make it so that even that would have consequences of falling down.
***Solves (1) people just playing casually for Solo/Ally Points. (2) people just forfeiting in advance of playing stronger players and trying for a better matchup next time. If you TRY, you might win, and be greater rewarded (and if you still do lose, which is maybe likely, at least you only lose a little progress).
The other thing is the recent BGs announcement about light essence being in Celestial rewards basically contradicts a lot of the stuff mentioned, as stuff like that basically gatekeeps resources to the top 0.0001% , making it so everyone else has to spend money to not miss out on that Luminatrix .
Whoevers idea it was to make it Celestial exclusive, it was an obvious attempt to reel in people to spend more money, and from the looks of it, even the competitive f2p players.
Comments
Don’t worry experience eventually humbles these folks. But it shows that it’s a good time to be a newer player at least.
Yes, I am new, but maybe you've been here too long, and could use a new hobby in your life...
With that being said, I think this post and its underlying tone is indicative of why the game is where it’s at today. It feels extremely passive aggressive and patronizing especially towards end game players and content creators. I’m not going to address every little item but I want to address somethings that really stuck out to me as misleading:
1. Calling battlegrounds “niche” while making the point that a majority of money made doesn’t come from battlegrounds players in order to justify a lack of attention given to the mode.
Point: let’s say we have a gym filled with 10k people and they all got to choose any number they want between 1 and 100. Once everyone has picked a number it’s time to collect some data. Let’s say we find that 10% of people picked the number 20. Now someone could look at that data and say “Wow! People really like the number 20. We should pay close attention to that number as we run these test over time.” And I would argue these people are absolutely correct. Butttt another person could come along and claim to people outside of data collection team “Nah…a vast majority of people picked a number that wasn’t 20. We could pay attention to it but it’s really not that important.” This person is technically correct but is greatly misleading people because relative to all other numbers individually, the number 20 actually makes up a huge (much higher) percent of what people chose (you would expect it to be around 1% but it came out to 10%)
I think this example is exactly what’s happening because if it wasn’t a big deal this post wouldn’t exist. Bg players might not make up a huge percent of the player base compared to the game as a whole (doesn’t makes sense to make that comparison). But relative to all other game modes INDIVIDUALLY it’s actually an extremely important game mode. And that doesn’t even take into account that it has a ridiculously high retention rate. It doesn’t account for how it affects aw participation (idk if that could be accurately calculated). I.e. if bg players stopped playing the game due to how bad bg is right now so many alliances would fall apart and then aw would fall apart. These modes are most definitely interconnected.
Bg (along with aw imo) is absolutely necessary to retain end game players. Without it the retention rate of consistent customers over long periods of time would drop off a cliff and I think y’all know that’s exactly the case which is why this post was rushed out almost the same day that a boycott was called for.
2. Correlation is NOT causation. The claim is made that the focus on casual player base is what led to the first year of player growth in a long time. I could just as easily claim that the release of Marvel Rivals is what caused the growth because its release coincides with MCOCs growth (I would be willing to bet the highest levels of growth were seen in Q3 and Q4). I along with a few other of my friends quite literally started playing this game again because of Marvel Rivals (there’s weirdly a lot of similarities). But that would be illogical for me to claim that the release of Rivals is the cause of growth in mcoc player base. And there are a ton of other variables that probably had at least some effect on player growth. Were all of these variables accounted for when making the claim that a focus on casual player led to growth? I very strongly doubt it. So not only is it wrong to make the claim but it’s also a dangerous mindset to have. Cause let’s say you focus on comp this year and there’s a decline. Following the line of logic from last year it would be (incorrectly) claimed that the focus on comp is what led to a decline.
2b. And why do the two have to be separated so much in the first place? You can update both consistently, right? Only reasons that wouldn’t be the case is if profits have been misused over the years, let’s say trying to make new games that failed. I apologize for the snark but that’s how this patronizing post felt to many of us (it read like “you guys really don’t know what you’re talking about and you’re not that important but fine here’s bone”)
3. Lastly, why was this post passive aggressive towards content creators and end game players? And not just this post, but you guys consistently over time make it feel like an us vs them. They are high paying customers who bring a high level of visibility to the game. As a multi-decade gamer I’ve seen this kind of interaction between devs and content creators kill games as content creators walk away (for some reason it’s like this across the entire gaming industry most likely due to unchecked ego from both devs and creators but one side supplies the money so…)
There’s much more to say but I’ll leave it at this for now. I really hope there a mentality shift at Kabam cause I genuinely love this game and want to play it for years to come. (Like the champion development team is on fire. I wish we could talk more about that but instead here we are barely acknowledging what an amazing job they’ve been doing.)
Streamlining is great and I like having a singular currency that carries month to month but these got strip mined and it’s even duller than AQ now.
Id like to add that there is 1 bucket i think you forgot to touch on. It specifically has to do with those people who push on the very last day (or just very close to the end).
Every season i get to around mysterium on the weekend before the reset. This is when I can mainly play the game, due to work and school restrictions taking up most of my day during the week. However, on the very last day or 2 is where a lot of the "sniping" happens, as the scores change drastically. This is also where some of the "soft modders" come out, but i wont talk about that here.
My point is, because the way its set up right now is all that matters is where you end up at the end of the season, this gives players an incentive to wait towards the last few days to push and as a result, people like myself get knocked down a tier just simply due to the fact we dont have time to play as much during .the week.
You may be saying the incentive to push for radiance by week X could help here, but this is easy to work around , as you can just push to that rank and get the objective then wait for the end to "snipe" players. After all, it takes days for the decay rating to kick in (and even that can be circumvented by doing just 1 match)
My suggestion would be to have the "GC rank/bucket rewards" be based off if you can reach the rank rather than finish , due to the sniping reason (and botters/modders that come out towards the end)
After all, you did say that the data shows that:
1) BGs is a niche game mode compared to other game modes that more players take part in
And
2) GC players pushing in the higher ranks are the least likely to stop playing regardless of the extend of the rewards
I do think the post by Crash is amazing. It does feel like a genuine attempt to provide real insight into how we’ve gotten here. It’s not answered everything but it has helped to show where things are heading.
Now I do think all of this could have been avoided by going back to the old road maps to give us the players some insight into the medium and long term direction of the game. I thought the road maps were great. Where they failed was the radio silence when some we went significantly passed the estimated time frames new additions were supposed to drop. All the road maps need are a quick update as part of the next years road map of what from last year is still outstanding and are they still intended to be input into the game or dropped.
Thank you.
I could have believed you if you reacted swiftly (instead to sleep on the reward update for 20 months in BG for instance). Now it only looks as damage control from your part, Kabam. You may still fool some people with your empty words and false promises but I'm beyond that point.
Per crashed’s recent post, he would like us to stay on topic and since he is reading through all of these, what do you think of the proposed changes?
I just read another forum user’s post about the concern with game modes growing more stale with the universal currency with an example of the mysterium/side quest situation. I tend to agree with that user (apologies for missing your name!) and would offer that I am really interested in the dev diaries that address the other areas in game. I am hopeful given what this post from crash included.
The last piece of feedback I would like to offer is more for the idea creation and problem solving on Kabam’s end. A lot of us don’t fully understand what goes into the operation and maintenance of this game and given the massive scale, it might behoove the game team to have some “town hall” type live streams where users can submit legitimate ideas for exploration. I think Kabam has implemented some summoner ideas in the past and obviously the CCP program is kind of an intermediary, but maybe crowdsourcing some new ideas would be of benefit. I have read a lot of really great ideas on the forums over the years and while I am sure Kabam has read some of them, it might be nice to see some feedback on what ideas they are noodling on and how many they are seriously considering (and why).
Either way, really appreciate the post, crashed. They are always a joy to read through.
But I personally do not like 5 of these changes and I think this will be the point when I actually give up on BG completely.
1. Removal of the Solo Event
It was one of the reason why I played BG. For me Bg is boring and rather the mode which I have to play. And I did it only to reach the final milestone in solo event.
I never wanted to go far in GC, so now if you push these rewards in Gc, there is no more point for me playing.
3. New objectives to reward pushing higher, faster
Previously I got to GC at the end of 2nd week - start of 3d week.
I just do not have that much time to play BG a lot.
Reach GC in first week? 100 points in second and 200 in third? How many hours should I play Bg each day to do it?
6. New ELO tuning and matchmaking settings
This seems will work OK only for top players, not for average players. For average player it may become more dramatic when you just always get opponent with extra juicy deck and you always lose.
7. Restructure Gladiator’s Circuit rank buckets
So, let me guess, again, the most juicy rewards will be for highest ranks and for low ranks there will be outdated stuff…
9. Seeding review
This will help only top levels and give them huuuge opportunity to progress over objectives from #3 in first week, while all others will have all the pain progressing through it.
As for myself, I do not like PvP at all. I did not like incursions when the only way to play them was to find somebody and do it together. It was a huge improvement to introduce solo mode.
The thing that would make me play this mode more is the solo mode, PVE, not PvP. So I can do it with my speed and my desire. When I do not need to wait 15-30 seconds just staring on the screen and waiting fir opponent to decide. Or not waiting 1 minute for opponent to finish paused fight when I already finished mine.
So, thanks, good job, I hope this mode will find its huge player base, but I am not a part of it. Quite likely my opinion is not a popular one, but it is mine and it is my personal feelings about that.
The saddest thing is that this mode is not an optional one. And will not be.
I will still have to play it as otherwise I will just miss some essential rewards.
Game should differentiate PvP and PvE and none of these modes should be mandatory to play in order to progress with other players if person do not like it at all.
When Kabam find the proper solution for this, everyone will be happy.
Maybe I'm just buying into the same logical fallacies and confirmation bias, but unlike you all, I don't have access to the hard data. Still, the same way buying into popular trends can be a pitfall is the same way just looking at numbers and seeing the forest instead of the trees can taint someone's understanding of a situation.
The first thing that stands out is the idea that BGs is "niche" or that it being the most important game mode is a logical trap. You say that the vast majority of players do not or never have played BGs seriously, that BGs isn't how you guys make money because the vast majority of your revenue comes from players who don't take it seriously. I call cap. Not on that factoid itself, but how its being used out of context to build the foundation of this argument being used to justify not only deprioritizing the mode but outright ignoring it.
Lets start with the mode being niche. Instead of just accepting that for what is it, lets look at just why it might be in the state that it is. You said it yourself, BGs is a mode that was encouraging players to not play it as intended. The best strategy was to farm and get easy points, then move up later in the season to confirm your final placement for rewards. But that's not where the problem ends.
If players are farming instead of pushing, its means that you have players who should be at higher ranks or even in the gladiator's circuit ruining the experience for players who were never feasibly going to push that far. When your top players aren't taking the game mode seriously and are ruining the already broken experience for the average player that you all keep pretending to be looking out for, of course the average player also isn't going to take the mode "seriously."
Still, every day for the past 26 seasons of BGs, every communication channel has been flooded with players constantly complaining about this problem and its effects. It's come in different manners, such as "poor matchmaking," "terrible experiences," "not worth playing," "I hate playing bgs," etc. Yet all of these problems people have been complaining about can be traced back to the problem of the mode not encouraging proper gameplay as intended, and the other highly debated issue of it not being a mode that properly facilitates a fair experience (or at the least rewards you based on the quality of your competition.)
So why is there such a central focus on the mode being niche? Why was the discussion not in the direction of, "how do we make BGs worth engaging seriously for all level of players?" Look at alliance war. Regardless of what you all have said in the past concerning low participation levels in the mode, it's still functionally (in terms of how its structured not based on actual engagement, retention, or any other sort of hard data) in a better place than what you admit BGs is. Like the diversity pain point of people spamming serpents. Instead of seeing AW as a niche game mode, you all addressed the pain point and changed how diversity was scored. Ontop of that, AW received the loyalty crystal, multiple store updates and redesigns, and not just the showcase, but the class-based showcase quests.
I'm sure its not the intention, but when I read this section, I get the same sentiment that was being passed around for the past two gifting events. "Endgame players are a loud minority who don't reflect the actual player base and its general sentiments towards the game." You all created BGs as a mode that is made for endgame players over casual, intended or not, and even worse you broke it to the point where there is no space for the average player to see the point in taking it seriously beyond getting what they can and getting out. You all created the problem you're using to justify not prioritizing fixing it. Yet another mode with similar issues and that was previously in the same place BGs currently is has received bailout after bailout and experiment after experiment.
And again, the niche point and underestimating its importance doesn't sit well in another dozen ways. I feel like you guys are taking data points out of context to make unfair comparisons. Without even engaging in the argument over whether those points are legitimate, an argument I would have no foot to stand on because I have no access to the data you're looking at, lets dive into the visible evidence.
From my own experience with the mode, BGs is arguably the second-best place in the game for fast roster expansion. Thats right behind story at number one, and imo beating out everest content at number two due to the lack of access non-endgame players have to those modes. I can personally attest to abusing BGs for rapid roster progression as a TB and even as a Paragon player. BGs rewards through making pushes and clearing the store were more accessible than waiting a season for AW to end, or waiting for the AQ week to end, or waiting for the next week of SQ, or biting the bullet and pushing through story/everest content. Even when those rewards were eventually available, I was getting so much out of suffering through BGs by then that there was no comparison. So its very odd to me that we are getting this weird sentiment of BGs being niche based on how seriously people engage in the mode, when on paper its such a shortcut to resources that you would normally have to wait to get, outside of story that comes down to whether you can clear it or not.
Regardless, how seriously people engage in the mode doesn't change the fact that it has a large community, and that most of it is your vocal playerbase. That means something beyond just being a pawn to sacrifice to chase after abusing your Queen, this "casual community" that you've been "focusing on" in exchange. Even that comparison doesn't work, because the idea of there needing to be a choice is entirely artificial. BGs could accommodate everyone, but you all structured it in a manner where it doesn't. Instead of choosing to change that, you use it as proof that it wasn't worth investing effort into fixing instead.
Ontop of that, kabam perpetuates the problem of BGs being the face of the game, regardless of whether it's true in terms of the play data or not. Champions are literally marketed for BGs, whether it's through the content of the deep dives of the past, to the recent shift in official affiliated content creation where every youtuber is doing literal bgs health-pool/defender showcases for new champs. You guys even used BGs are a place to incentivize the deathless chase by putting a piece there and expanded on it with the current chase after light essence. Your rebalancing program references champion performances in PVP content, such as BGs and AW. Monthly objectives have been tied to winning matches. The daily super event gives an insane amount of points for just winning. Ontop of that, the rewards are once again just better in BGs through the store. Thats not praise for how good the store is, but a nod to how bad things are in some of these other areas that were supposedly "prioritized." Even after all the focus on other areas to accommodate casual players, that again you all are responsible for turning off from BGs because of how you structured it, most of them still are outright not worth engaging in when taken in comparison to what you could get from BGs.
Instead of seeing BGs content and focus as a trend that doesn't match data, why isn't the focus on why the data doesn't match the trend? These people on the hype train of the trend aren't stupid. Why would they choose to focus on BGs related content creation instead of doing vids on other areas of the game? Beyond the enjoyment of the mode some took pleasure in, everything when it came to tierlists or even just exploring ways to play has circled back to BGs. New champions drop and content creators see the need in making vids explaining how to handle problematic defenders or how and when to utilize certain attackers in BGs style matchups. Yeah, they show footage of taking them into quests and everest lanes, but you always hear them circle back to how a rotation can be put into play for bgs, or how the fight would've been over with a bgs health-pool. Even after you all prioritized other areas of the game, BGs still trended as the face of content. Does that not mean anything?
Forget content creation, what about the actual playerbase who chooses to engage with the mode itself. How about the data on the decisions made by those who engage in the mode? Whether they take it seriously or not, people aren't just ranking serpent, enchantress, and bullseye just because of their usefulness in alliance war or for everest content. They don't leave them out of their decks because they don't take BGs seriously and don't try to win at all. They don't progress their account because the resources just so happened to appear in their inventory. They don't mass rank champions just because they need to do AQ, EQ, SQ, Story and AW. They don't just compete in the mode and not spend any of their tokens ever. What about the use of rankup decisions where champs they take up and bring to BGs aren't used in other modes? What about the progress players have been able to make in other modes because of some level of engagement in battlegrounds? What about the alliances that focus solely on bgs or prioritize participation over other alliance modes?
If its so niche, then why not reference the minimal impact it has had in those scenarios concerning those who engaged with the mode? Why not pull up numbers of sales of champs who have statistically found success in battlegrounds vs those who haven't? Instead its this weird, noone takes it serious, angle. Thats not saying BGs doesn't have high participation, or high participation in relation to the modes you have prioritized. I know you said you didn't want to delay this post by waiting for more statistics to reference, but I think we all be highly interested in seeing the numbers of what it means that BGs is a niche mode that isn't taken seriously. Not even from the angle of proving them right or wrong, but just wrapping our minds around how you all came to that conclusion and left things to the point where you all felt you were better off chasing modes that can't be taken seriously or can't be repeated like bgs without a constant drain of resources that leads to the exact same scenario that we are back in.
And forget arguing about how BGs compares to the rest of the game. Why is that even a focus? Why make these false equivalent comparisons that don't take into account the accountability or context of why BGs is even in a state where those comparison had to be made? Just looking at the next section concerning your prioritization mystifies me. Most of the casual playerbase cannot access the new levels of story content, yet it keeps chugging along with new changes and focuses as intended. Everest content is one and done. Players engage in it and then leave it. Some don't even explore it or touch it in the first place. Yet its been a goal that was prioritized even though its definitively a niche area geared towards a minority of the player base. Most of your long-term goals for endgame players have involved BGs participation through collecting chase items. Again, you continue to implement it now.
The rest of the justifications just don't make sense to me. So focusing on bgs won't solve a declining player base, and better rewards lead to worse overall player retention. Does that not sound like a serious problem? Noone wanted to investigate what was such a pain point about the mode that making the rewards more appealing negatively affected retention? Why not address those pain points instead of abandoning the mode in order to not actually do anything to make everywhere else better? We get this balance of, it was necessary because BGs was an acceptable sacrifice, yet at the same time you're coming to the problem of the game being too big so its time to come back to BGs as part of your plans to consolidate things.
So instead of focusing on the area that could feasibly be the key to consolidating the rest of the game, you focus on facelifts for a bunch of areas that on paper still need work or are still part of the new problem of the game being too big. Instead of fixing the area that seemingly is niche but shouldn't be, you go on to focus on every other niche area of the game that are still depreciating in value. Even worse, now you acknowledge that it isn't feasible to update all the rewards of those modes. So you took the past few years leaving your legs to rot in order to focus on your arms, just to realize that you will eventually have to amputate part of your arms anyway.
And the "how can rewards be bad if accounts are still progressing" is actually annoying. You guys love to toss how far we have progressed since 7 stars have released in our faces. Well what about BGs? How far have the rewards progressed in 18 months? How about this. If we're progressing so fast that we think the rewards are bad, and they have not been updated in months to years, along with the rewards themselves being forced to cover a playerbase that varies from hardstuck at a low progression to practically already qualified for the next progression the moment it drops, how can we not think the rewards are bad? If you guys are running special events where uc cav and tb accounts come out looking like early stage valiants, how do you expect those players to react to the rewards available to them until they actually reach valiant? And thats across modes.
On top of that, you all perpetuate that problem again by releasing new content with insane rewards that leave the monthly items in the dust. We're then proposed this idea of some areas of the game falling behind others and everything can't be valuable. Yeah, they could if you all balanced the areas appropriately. Of course, everything can't be valuable when your current approach is make everest valuable and toss the scraps around as necessary.
Wasn't that half the point of sagas? To unify modes and get a better grip on the rewards being given across sidequests and attached solo events? Reduce complexity and the chance of summoners getting lost at how to get what to do huh and engage where? If its a question of quest difficulty, then maybe don't leave the threat levels in such a bad place where the average skilled tb can clear threat lvl 5 sq in most months with their 6* r3 champs. Its not like we're asking for a back issues update. What is the point of wasting resources on content every month, regardless of how good the dialogue is at times, when its seen as not worth doing and comparatively isn't worth doing either?
I feel like you all are also falling into a pitfall of confirmation bias. Its easy to look at growth and attribute it to certain decisions or focuses on areas of success, but you have to again look at the context. MCOC has had a media blitz over the past few years the likes of which I don't believe this game has ever seen. Ads are literally everywhere. I can't watch youtube shorts these days without seeing random MCOC ads. Every time I scroll through Twitter/X comment sections, I get an ad for a mcoc event like banquet or hunters' market or the anniversary/reunion event. Even when engaging in other games I received ads for mcoc, such as a previous instance with promotion of characters as 7 stars that weren't announced yet or haven't been implemented. There's also the google play partnership, the return to in person cons/event stages, the game moving to 60 fps, the pc release tease, the content creator summits, the twitch/youtube streams, the webstore, promo codes being a thing, and the rise in content creators and content variety (mainly thanks to bgs.)
Ontop of that, the game has been increasingly optimized towards spending your way forward. You can actually buy your way through progressions now. Earlier content has been neutered in every way. Theres passes for everything you could possibly need. Theres way more champs than before. New champions are practically bosses in comparison to the barebones mechanics of yesteryear. The game has implemented more modern mechanics like battle passes and subscriptions. You can practically buy champions in some cases. A pity system is coming. Theres just plenty of reasons for players to give MCOC a shot and stay longer than they used to rather than diving deep into available game modes and enjoying the game for what it is.
In the end, I understand that businesses can't afford to pursue every avenue. Something will always be left behind. But leaving BGs, a mode that is the focus of the wider community whether positive or negative, to the wayside in order to facilitate growth is not a positive, especially when you look at what hasn't been left behind and what has continually been expanded in its place. Its the biggest red flag if anything. The changes are good, but the justifications and logic behind the wait are concerning at best and alarming at worst. The community will always have different concerns than the dev team, but this disconnect on BGs and how its valued in the community vs what data the devs are apparently seeing about the mode is very odd. What still confuses me is how you all have apparently known this but made no moves to rectify the situation or communicate your intention to let things lie. It's like finding out your significant other has just been going through the motions for the past few months. What's next? 9.2 has actually been complete, but you guys decided to prioritize pushing other everest content in its place?
I have a few ideas that would get me involved.
Let’s see:
Why not add champs you can claim, just like arenas? Maybe more people would play?
I’m an endgame player and I don’t play battlegrounds for rewards that are scrap compared to my roster.
Getting a champion due to skills seems cool and enticing. Imagine getting champion selectors for 2 stars then drop a 2 and 3 star only season?
In other words, why not a season using only 2 rarities?
Resurrecting 1 through 4 star champs.
I know most end game players are thinking Rank 5 7 stars and 7 star dust, but even then, for casual and competitive, this can be cool to pass time.
Finally, what about 1 star Maestro, Ultron, Thanos etc? Maybe this can be a chase trophy through BG’s. Since they really offer no significant value(no sig ability), would be a collector’s thing.
I do not think BG’s should be where I get my end game stuff. I like it the old way: crazy challenges, AQ, story mode and progression. This way it feels like a special RPG style goal/achievement.
Thanks for the feedback btw! Good to see Kabam actually acknowledging us.
First off the elephant in the room, Radiance, you guys are obviously using this as a replacement for BGs store buffs, basically this will be the store specifically for endgame players which will receive updates consistently. My concerns with this are how much Radiance each league will get you, what we'll be able to do with it (prices, quantity etc), the way I see it there are many ways this could go South so I sincerely hope Kabam thinks this one through before implementing and generating even more disappointment after giving us some hope.
Second, widening matchmaking gaps, not as big of a deal as Radiance but it could be detrimental to some if they make it too wide so I hope they find some sort of balance there as well.
Elder's Marks matches gave much higher POINTS towards the Solo and Ally Events.
With Solo points Event being removed (and think they said Ally one also the following season ?)
Without those events, what is the difference between using Elder's Mark, and using Energy ???
Here's what my SUGGESTION would be, that would actually address a number of issues. (not that it will probably get lost in a sea of other comments).
Instead of needing 4 or 5 Medals to advance a Tier, and winning 2 medals vs losing 1 medal.
Make it like 100 Medals.
(ok, actually call then POINTS instead, and doesn’t have to be as many as 100, but that is a nice round number, the relative amount of Won/Lost would just be scaled down if they want to use an advancement number of say 20 or 25 instead of 100)
Wins would still earn you more points(medals) than a loss would.
BUT, (just like for War Rating +/-) the exact amount would VARY for each match, depending on who you match up against.
**Solving issue with lopsided matches**
Your potential +/- when matched against an Equal opponent would be +40 / -20 (equivalent to a current 4.5 Medal advancement requirement, and similarly only lose half as much on a loss).
Against a little Stronger Opponent might be +50 -15. Against much stronger opponent maybe +60 -10.
Note, your opponent in those matches would have the exact opposite +/- potential. They would not get much for winning against you, but they would suffer greatly if they lost to your weaker team.
(*which, obviously then the converse +/- is if YOU were the Weaker team too)
Now, what is considered Stronger/Weaker would have to be something like an expanded Prestige (say, based on your top 15-20 champs, instead of 5 elsewhere prestige is used in game)
And further, would probably have to implement FALLING DOWN a tier if you lose and were at the starting point of a tier. Else people would be fine losing or forfeiting (like currently) when at 0 medals of a new tier. Make it so that even that would have consequences of falling down.
***Solves (1) people just playing casually for Solo/Ally Points. (2) people just forfeiting in advance of playing stronger players and trying for a better matchup next time. If you TRY, you might win, and be greater rewarded (and if you still do lose, which is maybe likely, at least you only lose a little progress).
Whoevers idea it was to make it Celestial exclusive, it was an obvious attempt to reel in people to spend more money, and from the looks of it, even the competitive f2p players.
Strongly suggest you reconsider that outlook