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Removal of Thorns: a new case for rank down tickets

12346

Comments

  • Run477Run477 Posts: 1,391 ★★★
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Run477 wrote: »
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Just give everyone two 5* and two 4* RDTs. They can use one on a defender and one on an attacker of each star level.

    I'm yet to see a good reason not to do this. People who argue against it just seem to want others to be unhappy regardless of how it will impact them. So what if they ranked up a crappy champ when they had no options and now they want to rank up a better one? How is that stopping you from doing what you want to do, especially when you'll get the option to do the same? Is the prestige issue really that serious for anyone but the one guy that keeps going on and on about it?

    Short answer, yes. How long have you played this game? Aq rewards are based on prestige. 5* r4 champs give the most prestige (as of now). You are making the decision to get more rewards now taking up those champs. Additionally, you win more wars by taking up those champs now (which is how you end up with the champs you would rather have).

    Sorry but I asked if it was an issue for anyone but you. It's clearly an issue for you. But if it's just you, then sorry but that makes it less valid.

    Short answer, you don't understand how prestige affects the game possibly? I get why people want rankdown tickets. They want to replace champs they ranked up with champs they have now that they view as better. But frankly, that's not how the game was designed and rankdown tickets should not have been given except for the specific 4* champs who were totally destroyed by 12.0. Those were the champs people put money into and then they were completely changed.

    I like how I am getting attacked bc I'm opposed to something that supposedly "benefits everybody" but the whole starting point of this thread was a complaint that one champ lost its usefulness bc all thorns nodes in war were removed. If removing thorns nodes doesn't "benefit everybody" (assuming my opportunity cost argument is invalid as one poster claims), then there is no need for rankdowns. You want rankdowns bc you want to change the layout of your rosters without putting in more time to get more rewards. I get it. If there were rankdown tickets, I would use them to do the same thing. But I stand by my position on 5* r4 champs (I don't care one way or the other on 4* champs and r3 5* champs). People knew they only got 2 (or 3 if they beat LOL or 4 if they 100% LOL) and ranked up people anyway. That was their choice.
  • Viper1987Viper1987 Posts: 728 ★★★
    edited August 2017
    Vdh2008 wrote: »
    Between the 6 star announcement (which with CR has indeed "nerfed" all 4 stars in the game) and the changes to AW, it really is time for another round or RDTs.

    You can argue (like @GroundedWisdom ) that the champs themsleves are not being changed, but you can NOT argue that those same champs will perform DIFFERENTLY in this "new" set up. This is the case for people calling it an "indirect" nerf.

    The champs you use today in the game will no longer have the exact same ability once these changes are made. That's FACT. This is a perfect time for RDTs.

    I didn't read all the comments so forgive me if I echo someone else's comment. This makes no sense. If they issued RDT every time there was an "indirect nerf" they would constantly be around. Releasing AA to counter Magik would be considered an indirect nerf because Magik's effectiveness is reduced. AA and Iceman counter evaders better so BW, Falcon, CB, and all other skill champs got indirectly nerfed. You could twist indirect nerfs in any way that fits your argument but ever since RDTs were released once, everyone has been crying out to get them back. Bottom line is Kabam stated they are only to be released again when a champ is significantly altered and even then they will be champ specific.
  • Run477Run477 Posts: 1,391 ★★★
    Viper1987 wrote: »
    Vdh2008 wrote: »
    Between the 6 star announcement (which with CR has indeed "nerfed" all 4 stars in the game) and the changes to AW, it really is time for another round or RDTs.

    You can argue (like @GroundedWisdom ) that the champs themsleves are not being changed, but you can NOT argue that those same champs will perform DIFFERENTLY in this "new" set up. This is the case for people calling it an "indirect" nerf.

    The champs you use today in the game will no longer have the exact same ability once these changes are made. That's FACT. This is a perfect time for RDTs.

    I didn't read all the comments so forgive me if I echo someone else's comment. This makes no sense. If they issued RDT every time there was an "indirect nerf" they would constantly be around. Releasing AA to counter Magik would be considered an indirect nerf because Magik's effectiveness is reduced. AA and Iceman counter evaders better so BW, Falcon, CB, and all other skill champs got indirectly nerfed. You could twist indirect nerfs in any way that fits your argument but ever since RDTs were released once, everyone has been crying out to get them back. Bottom line is Kabam stated they are only to be released again when a champ is significantly altered and even then they will be champ specific.

    I made the same point earlier. They all disagrees
  • Viper1987Viper1987 Posts: 728 ★★★
    Run477 wrote: »
    Viper1987 wrote: »
    Vdh2008 wrote: »
    Between the 6 star announcement (which with CR has indeed "nerfed" all 4 stars in the game) and the changes to AW, it really is time for another round or RDTs.

    You can argue (like @GroundedWisdom ) that the champs themsleves are not being changed, but you can NOT argue that those same champs will perform DIFFERENTLY in this "new" set up. This is the case for people calling it an "indirect" nerf.

    The champs you use today in the game will no longer have the exact same ability once these changes are made. That's FACT. This is a perfect time for RDTs.

    I didn't read all the comments so forgive me if I echo someone else's comment. This makes no sense. If they issued RDT every time there was an "indirect nerf" they would constantly be around. Releasing AA to counter Magik would be considered an indirect nerf because Magik's effectiveness is reduced. AA and Iceman counter evaders better so BW, Falcon, CB, and all other skill champs got indirectly nerfed. You could twist indirect nerfs in any way that fits your argument but ever since RDTs were released once, everyone has been crying out to get them back. Bottom line is Kabam stated they are only to be released again when a champ is significantly altered and even then they will be champ specific.

    I made the same point earlier. They all disagrees

    I honestly don't know why this thread is still going.
  • IronicFistIronicFist Posts: 48
    Run477 wrote: »
    I'm just fully against rank down tickets for r4 5*s period. The way the game slowed the progression was limiting the t2as. Even if you didn't rank for prestige (I don't know what aq map you were running), you still benefited from the prestige boost even if not for that purpose. Allowing people to rank down 5* r4 champs defeats the purpose of making those (to this point) the rarest of the rare in the game and allows those who ranked them for prestige purposes a windfall.

    I will say again. Rtds should have never been allowed for 5* r4 champs.

    This is very a weird position to take. Ranking down an R4 doesn't give anyone extra R4s.

    The meta has changed, and while reasonable people could disagree about the appropriate remedy your concern about imaginary windfalls that wouldn't impact your account even if they were real comes off as sour grapes more than anything.
  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    Viper1987 wrote: »
    Vdh2008 wrote: »
    Between the 6 star announcement (which with CR has indeed "nerfed" all 4 stars in the game) and the changes to AW, it really is time for another round or RDTs.

    You can argue (like @GroundedWisdom ) that the champs themsleves are not being changed, but you can NOT argue that those same champs will perform DIFFERENTLY in this "new" set up. This is the case for people calling it an "indirect" nerf.

    The champs you use today in the game will no longer have the exact same ability once these changes are made. That's FACT. This is a perfect time for RDTs.

    I didn't read all the comments so forgive me if I echo someone else's comment. This makes no sense. If they issued RDT every time there was an "indirect nerf" they would constantly be around. Releasing AA to counter Magik would be considered an indirect nerf because Magik's effectiveness is reduced. AA and Iceman counter evaders better so BW, Falcon, CB, and all other skill champs got indirectly nerfed. You could twist indirect nerfs in any way that fits your argument but ever since RDTs were released once, everyone has been crying out to get them back. Bottom line is Kabam stated they are only to be released again when a champ is significantly altered and even then they will be champ specific.

    I see what you're saying, but they didn't hand AA out to everyone making Magik immediately less valuable to the entire community that leveled her up. This upcoming change instantly effects everyone with thorn specific champs. That difference is huge and invalidates your main point that they shouldn't do RDTs in this instance because new champs come out all the time that make other champs less useful. This isn't like someone wanting to rank down BP because they got GP. They literally had a node that benefited the most from having specific champs there, and those champs weren't very good anywhere else. Now they're taking away that node with little warning or info on new nodes.

    Personally, I feel that the thorn champs will still be useful on degen nodes, but I'd still like the option of ranking down attackers that I leveled up specifically for thorns since their defense ability stuff won't work on degen nodes. If I don't get that, I'm ok with it, but you don't get anything if you don't ask.
  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    edited August 2017
    Run477 wrote: »
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Run477 wrote: »
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Just give everyone two 5* and two 4* RDTs. They can use one on a defender and one on an attacker of each star level.

    I'm yet to see a good reason not to do this. People who argue against it just seem to want others to be unhappy regardless of how it will impact them. So what if they ranked up a crappy champ when they had no options and now they want to rank up a better one? How is that stopping you from doing what you want to do, especially when you'll get the option to do the same? Is the prestige issue really that serious for anyone but the one guy that keeps going on and on about it?

    Short answer, yes. How long have you played this game? Aq rewards are based on prestige. 5* r4 champs give the most prestige (as of now). You are making the decision to get more rewards now taking up those champs. Additionally, you win more wars by taking up those champs now (which is how you end up with the champs you would rather have).

    Sorry but I asked if it was an issue for anyone but you. It's clearly an issue for you. But if it's just you, then sorry but that makes it less valid.

    Short answer, you don't understand how prestige affects the game possibly? I get why people want rankdown tickets. They want to replace champs they ranked up with champs they have now that they view as better. But frankly, that's not how the game was designed and rankdown tickets should not have been given except for the specific 4* champs who were totally destroyed by 12.0. Those were the champs people put money into and then they were completely changed.

    I like how I am getting attacked bc I'm opposed to something that supposedly "benefits everybody" but the whole starting point of this thread was a complaint that one champ lost its usefulness bc all thorns nodes in war were removed. If removing thorns nodes doesn't "benefit everybody" (assuming my opportunity cost argument is invalid as one poster claims), then there is no need for rankdowns. You want rankdowns bc you want to change the layout of your rosters without putting in more time to get more rewards. I get it. If there were rankdown tickets, I would use them to do the same thing. But I stand by my position on 5* r4 champs (I don't care one way or the other on 4* champs and r3 5* champs). People knew they only got 2 (or 3 if they beat LOL or 4 if they 100% LOL) and ranked up people anyway. That was their choice.

    Please just find one other person that agrees with the prestige issue. The bigger opposition seems to be that you just want people to be stuck with their crappy champs because you waited for better ones.

    I'm not trying to attack, but you keep talking about the prestige issues as if they are a problem for everyone, but it's literally just you bringing that up. The most common opposition is just that "they don't do that for this reason" as if that is set in stone and can never be changed with enough community support.

    I've only been playing since last December, so the prestige stuff is really not my main concern. It may be for you, and you have the right to feel that way. I just feel like my arguments for RDT in this case is better than your argument against them, and the majority seem to agree with that position. I'll check for the threads saying prestige concerns should override champion usability though and maybe that will sway me.
  • Run477Run477 Posts: 1,391 ★★★
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Run477 wrote: »
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Run477 wrote: »
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Just give everyone two 5* and two 4* RDTs. They can use one on a defender and one on an attacker of each star level.

    I'm yet to see a good reason not to do this. People who argue against it just seem to want others to be unhappy regardless of how it will impact them. So what if they ranked up a crappy champ when they had no options and now they want to rank up a better one? How is that stopping you from doing what you want to do, especially when you'll get the option to do the same? Is the prestige issue really that serious for anyone but the one guy that keeps going on and on about it?

    Short answer, yes. How long have you played this game? Aq rewards are based on prestige. 5* r4 champs give the most prestige (as of now). You are making the decision to get more rewards now taking up those champs. Additionally, you win more wars by taking up those champs now (which is how you end up with the champs you would rather have).

    Sorry but I asked if it was an issue for anyone but you. It's clearly an issue for you. But if it's just you, then sorry but that makes it less valid.

    Short answer, you don't understand how prestige affects the game possibly? I get why people want rankdown tickets. They want to replace champs they ranked up with champs they have now that they view as better. But frankly, that's not how the game was designed and rankdown tickets should not have been given except for the specific 4* champs who were totally destroyed by 12.0. Those were the champs people put money into and then they were completely changed.

    I like how I am getting attacked bc I'm opposed to something that supposedly "benefits everybody" but the whole starting point of this thread was a complaint that one champ lost its usefulness bc all thorns nodes in war were removed. If removing thorns nodes doesn't "benefit everybody" (assuming my opportunity cost argument is invalid as one poster claims), then there is no need for rankdowns. You want rankdowns bc you want to change the layout of your rosters without putting in more time to get more rewards. I get it. If there were rankdown tickets, I would use them to do the same thing. But I stand by my position on 5* r4 champs (I don't care one way or the other on 4* champs and r3 5* champs). People knew they only got 2 (or 3 if they beat LOL or 4 if they 100% LOL) and ranked up people anyway. That was their choice.

    Please just find one other person that agrees with the prestige issue. The bigger opposition seems to be that you just want people to be stuck with their crappy champs because you waited for better ones.

    I'm not trying to attack, but you keep talking about the prestige issues as if they are a problem for everyone, but it's literally just you bringing that up. The most common opposition is just that "they don't do that for this reason" as if that is set in stone and can never be changed with enough community support.

    I've only been playing since last December, so the prestige stuff is really not my main concern. It may be for you, and you have the right to feel that way. I just feel like my arguments for RDT in this case is better than your argument against them, and the majority seem to agree with that position. I'll check for the threads saying prestige concerns should override champion usability though and maybe that will sway me.

    The "majority" agree bc they want rank down tickets. It's not because your position is necessarily the correct position. Rank down tickets have happened once since this game started. And it was a massive massive nerf of champs and effectively changed the entire game. Removing thorns from war is nothing like that--there are only 4 thorns nodes in the whole war map (used to be 5 and the thorns nodes used to be more punishing as well), and only two that have to be attacked unless you are going for a lot of explore (in tiers 4 and below, just 1 thorns node). To now start introducing rank down tickets for every "indirect nerf" fundamentally changes some of the strategy choices made in the game. And yes, I fully admit, some "strategy choices" may be harmed by this change. Others may be helped (like people who never had a true defensive ability reducing champ for instance). I grinded arena to get black widow in basic arena and then I awakened her with a skill awakening. A month later, I bought a $40 mystic package so I could awaken my scarlet witch. Then two months later, both were nerfed beyond belief to the point that they mostly weren't viable champs compared to other options. Max sig black widow used to avoid 100% thorns damage. Now, against a mutant, it's like 55%. With switch, you used to be able to power lock/stun most fights and stack 2 or 3 regens. Now your lucky if you get a regen every three fights and a power lock and stun once a fight. That was when rank down tickets were issued. They massively nerfed champs.

    This thread started about asking for an rdt for their ant man bc thorns was going away. I disagreed that rank down tickets should be allowed (you can call it sour grapes or whatever you want; you might not be seeing the alliances I'm seeing in war and trying to get into higher aq rewards that our alliance can't reach without running multiple map 6s to overcome the prestige deficit caused by people taking 5* champs to r4 for that purpose--when I had been playing for only 7-8 months I didn't understand this aspect of the game either).

    As numerous posters besides me have also pointed out, ant man is still viable on other defensive spots (although I still would not rank him up at all) and ability reducing champs also have uses beyond just thorns (i.e. Stopping evades, lowering magik limbo triggers, avoiding electro damage, preventing regen champs from triggering regen, etc). Compare that to what they did to Thor which was take a guy who could drop realm of legends winter soldier in less than 10 hits and then him into what he is today. There's simply no comparison.
  • ImranImran Posts: 587 ★★★
    At least kabam should give rank down tickets to those summoner whose champ affecting after update like who has a 4★ rank 5 black widow or ant man.
  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    Run477 wrote: »
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Run477 wrote: »
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Run477 wrote: »
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Just give everyone two 5* and two 4* RDTs. They can use one on a defender and one on an attacker of each star level.

    I'm yet to see a good reason not to do this. People who argue against it just seem to want others to be unhappy regardless of how it will impact them. So what if they ranked up a crappy champ when they had no options and now they want to rank up a better one? How is that stopping you from doing what you want to do, especially when you'll get the option to do the same? Is the prestige issue really that serious for anyone but the one guy that keeps going on and on about it?

    Short answer, yes. How long have you played this game? Aq rewards are based on prestige. 5* r4 champs give the most prestige (as of now). You are making the decision to get more rewards now taking up those champs. Additionally, you win more wars by taking up those champs now (which is how you end up with the champs you would rather have).

    Sorry but I asked if it was an issue for anyone but you. It's clearly an issue for you. But if it's just you, then sorry but that makes it less valid.

    Short answer, you don't understand how prestige affects the game possibly? I get why people want rankdown tickets. They want to replace champs they ranked up with champs they have now that they view as better. But frankly, that's not how the game was designed and rankdown tickets should not have been given except for the specific 4* champs who were totally destroyed by 12.0. Those were the champs people put money into and then they were completely changed.

    I like how I am getting attacked bc I'm opposed to something that supposedly "benefits everybody" but the whole starting point of this thread was a complaint that one champ lost its usefulness bc all thorns nodes in war were removed. If removing thorns nodes doesn't "benefit everybody" (assuming my opportunity cost argument is invalid as one poster claims), then there is no need for rankdowns. You want rankdowns bc you want to change the layout of your rosters without putting in more time to get more rewards. I get it. If there were rankdown tickets, I would use them to do the same thing. But I stand by my position on 5* r4 champs (I don't care one way or the other on 4* champs and r3 5* champs). People knew they only got 2 (or 3 if they beat LOL or 4 if they 100% LOL) and ranked up people anyway. That was their choice.

    Please just find one other person that agrees with the prestige issue. The bigger opposition seems to be that you just want people to be stuck with their crappy champs because you waited for better ones.

    I'm not trying to attack, but you keep talking about the prestige issues as if they are a problem for everyone, but it's literally just you bringing that up. The most common opposition is just that "they don't do that for this reason" as if that is set in stone and can never be changed with enough community support.

    I've only been playing since last December, so the prestige stuff is really not my main concern. It may be for you, and you have the right to feel that way. I just feel like my arguments for RDT in this case is better than your argument against them, and the majority seem to agree with that position. I'll check for the threads saying prestige concerns should override champion usability though and maybe that will sway me.

    The "majority" agree bc they want rank down tickets. It's not because your position is necessarily the correct position. Rank down tickets have happened once since this game started. And it was a massive massive nerf of champs and effectively changed the entire game. Removing thorns from war is nothing like that--there are only 4 thorns nodes in the whole war map (used to be 5 and the thorns nodes used to be more punishing as well), and only two that have to be attacked unless you are going for a lot of explore (in tiers 4 and below, just 1 thorns node). To now start introducing rank down tickets for every "indirect nerf" fundamentally changes some of the strategy choices made in the game. And yes, I fully admit, some "strategy choices" may be harmed by this change. Others may be helped (like people who never had a true defensive ability reducing champ for instance). I grinded arena to get black widow in basic arena and then I awakened her with a skill awakening. A month later, I bought a $40 mystic package so I could awaken my scarlet witch. Then two months later, both were nerfed beyond belief to the point that they mostly weren't viable champs compared to other options. Max sig black widow used to avoid 100% thorns damage. Now, against a mutant, it's like 55%. With switch, you used to be able to power lock/stun most fights and stack 2 or 3 regens. Now your lucky if you get a regen every three fights and a power lock and stun once a fight. That was when rank down tickets were issued. They massively nerfed champs.

    This thread started about asking for an rdt for their ant man bc thorns was going away. I disagreed that rank down tickets should be allowed (you can call it sour grapes or whatever you want; you might not be seeing the alliances I'm seeing in war and trying to get into higher aq rewards that our alliance can't reach without running multiple map 6s to overcome the prestige deficit caused by people taking 5* champs to r4 for that purpose--when I had been playing for only 7-8 months I didn't understand this aspect of the game either).

    As numerous posters besides me have also pointed out, ant man is still viable on other defensive spots (although I still would not rank him up at all) and ability reducing champs also have uses beyond just thorns (i.e. Stopping evades, lowering magik limbo triggers, avoiding electro damage, preventing regen champs from triggering regen, etc). Compare that to what they did to Thor which was take a guy who could drop realm of legends winter soldier in less than 10 hits and then him into what he is today. There's simply no comparison.

    I honestly can't argue about what they did to Thor, Switch, DS, or BW because I didn't play enough during their "God" days. I'm just saying in this instance, I can see why people would like to rank down certain champs. It doesn't have to be a better reason than the other nerf to be valid. The reason everyone got on your case is because you were insistent about people just trying to exploit prestige with these tickets, as if there was no other legitimate reason for their desire to rank down their champs.

    Ultimately, I don't care if I get RDTs or not because I didn't invest in those champs either. Antman should be just as viable as he ever was on all the new degen nodes. Falcon can still be used against stun immune evaders. Life will go on. If they decided to give them out, I think that would be a nice gesture. I'll go devote my energy to getting chests added to the AW map since they have all these extra spaces now. Good luck with your Antmen, guys.
  • Run477Run477 Posts: 1,391 ★★★
    "Chests added to aw map." Lol. That's great.
  • wray1976wray1976 Posts: 459 ★★
    edited August 2017
    MoiraD wrote: »
    MoiraD wrote: »
    Sungj wrote: »
    RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

    I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.

    The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.

    The integrity may not have changed, but the utility and in-game value of some champs certainly has. Starting in September, some champs will have less utility than they do this month. While the champ may not have changed, his or her usefulness has.

    I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, but you should let a mod shoot it down and not feel obliged to do it yourself. Just my opinion.

    I do not have the authority to "shoot down" a Thread. I do have the right to comment whether in support of the idea or not. Truth is that's not what they're for. Nothing about the Champs has been changed. The only instances where they would be brought back are major changes to the Champs themselves (nerfs), as stated by Mods. The situation does not apply. Just because people used them for Thorns and the Node is changing doesn't mean there is anything different about the Champs. Therefore, it does not negate Ranking them or warrant the necessity to change them. People can jump on that and imply I'm trying to play Mod, but that's what generally happens when someone expresses some facts and views that are not in sync with their own. I'm not stopping the discussion. Just pointing out that it's not what they are for. It seems like every change that comes, people want them.

    Facts are different that Views. Stating a view or opinion as a fact is how missinformation gets spread.

    You are interpreting your view about RDTs and stating it as fact.


    Getting back to the OP. That is an interesting reason for having a Rank Down Ticket. I don't usually agree with RDTs but I think if Kabam took a look at this issue that would be appreciated. They should take an average of the champions on Thorns and see how that plays out with what the community is talking about.

    This is similar to this hypothesis; What if Kabam changed it so AW Defenders were not affected the summoners Mastery.
    Would this many people rank up MD, or rank up Magic/Juggs/Dormamu/etc?

    It is fact when it's based on repeated comments from the Mods regarding RDT's. The subject has been brought up many times, and that's their stance. My view is that it doesn't apply to what they're for.



    Ahh thank your for clarifying your comments.

    Fact, mods have stated that RDTs are only for when big nerds/changes happen to champions

    You're view, is that this particular issue does not fall under said mod statements as related to RDTs. Other people have a different view than yours.

    So until a mod comes in and says that this situation does not apply to RDT it looks like everyone is just brainstorming ideas. No one is right or wrong, so cooling your jets in your condescending know it all tone might be appreciated by the other folks in this thread. You know, to keep things civil.

    Well, you can request it if you like. Whether they will or not, I don't know. I DO know that nothing is being changed about the Champs themselves, so it doesn't fall under what was stated.


    10- Do not impersonate moderators, or pretend to be a representative of the game. Additionally, only report a post if it truly breaks one of the rules, but do not make posts to invoke a moderator response or incite more rule breaking.

    11- false information
  • Viper1987Viper1987 Posts: 728 ★★★
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Viper1987 wrote: »
    Vdh2008 wrote: »
    Between the 6 star announcement (which with CR has indeed "nerfed" all 4 stars in the game) and the changes to AW, it really is time for another round or RDTs.

    You can argue (like @GroundedWisdom ) that the champs themsleves are not being changed, but you can NOT argue that those same champs will perform DIFFERENTLY in this "new" set up. This is the case for people calling it an "indirect" nerf.

    The champs you use today in the game will no longer have the exact same ability once these changes are made. That's FACT. This is a perfect time for RDTs.

    I didn't read all the comments so forgive me if I echo someone else's comment. This makes no sense. If they issued RDT every time there was an "indirect nerf" they would constantly be around. Releasing AA to counter Magik would be considered an indirect nerf because Magik's effectiveness is reduced. AA and Iceman counter evaders better so BW, Falcon, CB, and all other skill champs got indirectly nerfed. You could twist indirect nerfs in any way that fits your argument but ever since RDTs were released once, everyone has been crying out to get them back. Bottom line is Kabam stated they are only to be released again when a champ is significantly altered and even then they will be champ specific.

    I see what you're saying, but they didn't hand AA out to everyone making Magik immediately less valuable to the entire community that leveled her up. This upcoming change instantly effects everyone with thorn specific champs. That difference is huge and invalidates your main point that they shouldn't do RDTs in this instance because new champs come out all the time that make other champs less useful. This isn't like someone wanting to rank down BP because they got GP. They literally had a node that benefited the most from having specific champs there, and those champs weren't very good anywhere else. Now they're taking away that node with little warning or info on new nodes.

    Personally, I feel that the thorn champs will still be useful on degen nodes, but I'd still like the option of ranking down attackers that I leveled up specifically for thorns since their defense ability stuff won't work on degen nodes. If I don't get that, I'm ok with it, but you don't get anything if you don't ask.

    I saw this addressed earlier and I don't mean to be a jerk, but that was the choice you and others made to rank up a champ for that sole purpose. Lots of people rank up champs they can use in multiple aspects of the game. Magik, Dorm, Hulk, Iceman, etc. I actually ranked up Mordo specifically for thorns too. I made a bad decision because I hate Mordo in every aspect of the game. I think he is an overrated champ and he literally gets 0 kills every war. I tried placing him on other nodes other than thorns and still nothing. I just accept that he's a prestige body similar to Carnage now. However, the main issue is that RDTs are issued specifically due to champion changes. Direct changes that significantly alter the abilities of the champion, not because of evolving content. While I do understand and sympathize with you and your fellow summoners that ranked up Antman and Cyclops solely for thorns, they have already made their stance clear on this issue.

    P.S. Cyclops is still useful outside of thorns.
  • CoatHang3r wrote: »
    chunkyb wrote: »
    Love to see the crew of self appointed authorities show up to put down any discussions they don't like. They're really good at nuking these inconvenient threads.

    Truth is, we don't know the full extent of the change in the game yet. Op makes a good and valid point but we're guessing about the new nodes. Wait until the update hits. Avoid these trolls as much as possible, because all they do is run your thread into the ground enough for a mod to close it down. Happens everyday.
    The irony. You realize that is exactly what you are doing by launching ad Homs and breaking forum rules with deragorty descriptions of people who hold an opposing view point to yours right? Your rhetoric is what shuts down threads, well that and the fact RDT threads have been beaten to death.

    I like how you immediately thought it was about you but deny any such allegations

    Legit the funniest post here.

    Also, I can't wait for the update to come out so I can have those sweet sweet rank down tickets and then see what the authorities in here have to say.
  • AmonthirAmonthir Posts: 754 ★★★
    Might as well do something with all the fluff tiles they added.
  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    Run477 wrote: »
    "Chests added to aw map." Lol. That's great.

    So chests in the empty spots that can be collected upon completion (win or lose), is a horrible idea too? Why, because it wasn't around 2 years ago so it's not fair to you? Thanks for being a complete contrarian.
  • Run477Run477 Posts: 1,391 ★★★
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Run477 wrote: »
    "Chests added to aw map." Lol. That's great.

    So chests in the empty spots that can be collected upon completion (win or lose), is a horrible idea too? Why, because it wasn't around 2 years ago so it's not fair to you? Thanks for being a complete contrarian.

    No, I actually thought you were making a joke (like, I'm not dealing with this anymore so I'm going to go rearrange my sock drawer). I didn't realize you were serious. I don't care one way or another. But sure, I will take extra rewards in war for exploring tiles.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,095 ★★★★★
    wray1976 wrote: »
    MoiraD wrote: »
    MoiraD wrote: »
    Sungj wrote: »
    RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

    I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.

    The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.

    The integrity may not have changed, but the utility and in-game value of some champs certainly has. Starting in September, some champs will have less utility than they do this month. While the champ may not have changed, his or her usefulness has.

    I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, but you should let a mod shoot it down and not feel obliged to do it yourself. Just my opinion.

    I do not have the authority to "shoot down" a Thread. I do have the right to comment whether in support of the idea or not. Truth is that's not what they're for. Nothing about the Champs has been changed. The only instances where they would be brought back are major changes to the Champs themselves (nerfs), as stated by Mods. The situation does not apply. Just because people used them for Thorns and the Node is changing doesn't mean there is anything different about the Champs. Therefore, it does not negate Ranking them or warrant the necessity to change them. People can jump on that and imply I'm trying to play Mod, but that's what generally happens when someone expresses some facts and views that are not in sync with their own. I'm not stopping the discussion. Just pointing out that it's not what they are for. It seems like every change that comes, people want them.

    Facts are different that Views. Stating a view or opinion as a fact is how missinformation gets spread.

    You are interpreting your view about RDTs and stating it as fact.


    Getting back to the OP. That is an interesting reason for having a Rank Down Ticket. I don't usually agree with RDTs but I think if Kabam took a look at this issue that would be appreciated. They should take an average of the champions on Thorns and see how that plays out with what the community is talking about.

    This is similar to this hypothesis; What if Kabam changed it so AW Defenders were not affected the summoners Mastery.
    Would this many people rank up MD, or rank up Magic/Juggs/Dormamu/etc?

    It is fact when it's based on repeated comments from the Mods regarding RDT's. The subject has been brought up many times, and that's their stance. My view is that it doesn't apply to what they're for.



    Ahh thank your for clarifying your comments.

    Fact, mods have stated that RDTs are only for when big nerds/changes happen to champions

    You're view, is that this particular issue does not fall under said mod statements as related to RDTs. Other people have a different view than yours.

    So until a mod comes in and says that this situation does not apply to RDT it looks like everyone is just brainstorming ideas. No one is right or wrong, so cooling your jets in your condescending know it all tone might be appreciated by the other folks in this thread. You know, to keep things civil.

    Well, you can request it if you like. Whether they will or not, I don't know. I DO know that nothing is being changed about the Champs themselves, so it doesn't fall under what was stated.


    10- Do not impersonate moderators, or pretend to be a representative of the game. Additionally, only report a post if it truly breaks one of the rules, but do not make posts to invoke a moderator response or incite more rule breaking.

    11- false information

    That's not what impersonating a Mod is, and that's not false information.
  • PlasmaKingPlasmaKing Posts: 105
    I havent read everything in this thread but the start seems to follow the I breath therefore I want RDT it's seems, any reason anyone can try to create to get them they do and post in the forum these days to try their luck.

    I'm sure I'm repeating what others have said but the removal of a node or the adding on one doesn't create a fundamental change in a champ as they did with 12.0. What next they added a buff or debuff to a node so give me a RDT ?!? Yes it can affect a champ but it doesn't change its design, and that's what they do all the time with the quest etc.

    I know you want an RDT for your ant man but I can't agree personally that you should get it. Ranking, who and how far should be a personal choice and on the understanding it's for the long term. We have all needed to deal with thorns and other nodes but none of my alliance ranked the champs mentioned we sought and ranked champs best for more than one thing.

  • wray1976wray1976 Posts: 459 ★★
    wray1976 wrote: »
    MoiraD wrote: »
    MoiraD wrote: »
    Sungj wrote: »
    RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

    I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.

    The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.

    The integrity may not have changed, but the utility and in-game value of some champs certainly has. Starting in September, some champs will have less utility than they do this month. While the champ may not have changed, his or her usefulness has.

    I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, but you should let a mod shoot it down and not feel obliged to do it yourself. Just my opinion.

    I do not have the authority to "shoot down" a Thread. I do have the right to comment whether in support of the idea or not. Truth is that's not what they're for. Nothing about the Champs has been changed. The only instances where they would be brought back are major changes to the Champs themselves (nerfs), as stated by Mods. The situation does not apply. Just because people used them for Thorns and the Node is changing doesn't mean there is anything different about the Champs. Therefore, it does not negate Ranking them or warrant the necessity to change them. People can jump on that and imply I'm trying to play Mod, but that's what generally happens when someone expresses some facts and views that are not in sync with their own. I'm not stopping the discussion. Just pointing out that it's not what they are for. It seems like every change that comes, people want them.

    Facts are different that Views. Stating a view or opinion as a fact is how missinformation gets spread.

    You are interpreting your view about RDTs and stating it as fact.


    Getting back to the OP. That is an interesting reason for having a Rank Down Ticket. I don't usually agree with RDTs but I think if Kabam took a look at this issue that would be appreciated. They should take an average of the champions on Thorns and see how that plays out with what the community is talking about.

    This is similar to this hypothesis; What if Kabam changed it so AW Defenders were not affected the summoners Mastery.
    Would this many people rank up MD, or rank up Magic/Juggs/Dormamu/etc?

    It is fact when it's based on repeated comments from the Mods regarding RDT's. The subject has been brought up many times, and that's their stance. My view is that it doesn't apply to what they're for.



    Ahh thank your for clarifying your comments.

    Fact, mods have stated that RDTs are only for when big nerds/changes happen to champions

    You're view, is that this particular issue does not fall under said mod statements as related to RDTs. Other people have a different view than yours.

    So until a mod comes in and says that this situation does not apply to RDT it looks like everyone is just brainstorming ideas. No one is right or wrong, so cooling your jets in your condescending know it all tone might be appreciated by the other folks in this thread. You know, to keep things civil.

    Well, you can request it if you like. Whether they will or not, I don't know. I DO know that nothing is being changed about the Champs themselves, so it doesn't fall under what was stated.


    10- Do not impersonate moderators, or pretend to be a representative of the game. Additionally, only report a post if it truly breaks one of the rules, but do not make posts to invoke a moderator response or incite more rule breaking.

    11- false information

    That's not what impersonating a Mod is, and that's not false information.

    I don't know you cross that line often. Opinions.
  • PIKESTAINPIKESTAIN Posts: 58
    I agree with this (though a very limited number per player due to circumstance)

    I ranked up Elektra to 5/50 to deal with thorns nodes - if I knew thorns was gonna be removed I would not have done this.
  • I'll just repeat my stand on this again and on behalf of the majority who feels RDTs should never even be a talking point in next update.

    1) No champion abilities have been altered, nerfed or buffed in any way. Almost every champion is working as intended.

    2) This thread began because someone's Antman is no longer useful on the Thorns nodes that have become irrelevant. Well, guess what? Is Kabam supposed to give us RDTs for every mechanical change that comes along with every update in a game mode? Are you telling me we are entitled to RDTs every time a mini boss/boss or even champions change in our Alliance Quests? Where were the calls for RDTs then? Oh...like it or not, your Black Widows and Ant-Mans still have relevance in other game modes. Stop being so narrow-minded and greedy for RDTs that are *ONLY MEANT FOR HUGE CHARACTER UPDATES*

    With that said, if RDTs do make a comeback, I strongly recommend that these tickets are champions specific. So if Ant-Man has abilities changed which significantly changes his playing style, an Ant-Man (rarity) specific ticket should be issued. This completely reduces the possibilities of players ranking down other unaffected champions. This is clearly an unintended use of RDTs. Hopefully the game team takes this into consideration. @Kabam Miike
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    edited August 2017
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    chunkyb wrote: »
    Love to see the crew of self appointed authorities show up to put down any discussions they don't like. They're really good at nuking these inconvenient threads.

    Truth is, we don't know the full extent of the change in the game yet. Op makes a good and valid point but we're guessing about the new nodes. Wait until the update hits. Avoid these trolls as much as possible, because all they do is run your thread into the ground enough for a mod to close it down. Happens everyday.
    The irony. You realize that is exactly what you are doing by launching ad Homs and breaking forum rules with deragorty descriptions of people who hold an opposing view point to yours right? Your rhetoric is what shuts down threads, well that and the fact RDT threads have been beaten to death.

    I like how you immediately thought it was about you but deny any such allegations

    No sorry I did not think it was directed at me at any point in time. See prior to this comment I had only asked a question for the OP, which BTW still hasn't been answered. What would lead you to think this?

    Being that I did not take it as being directed towards me why would I deny it?

    Again its comments like this that get threads shut down.
  • ralmadaralmada Posts: 191
    The dna of the coat hanger is on the ground... As that music says: "bigmouth strikes again" (and every time).
  • Kronos987654321Kronos987654321 Posts: 584 ★★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    chunkyb wrote: »
    Love to see the crew of self appointed authorities show up to put down any discussions they don't like. They're really good at nuking these inconvenient threads.

    Truth is, we don't know the full extent of the change in the game yet. Op makes a good and valid point but we're guessing about the new nodes. Wait until the update hits. Avoid these trolls as much as possible, because all they do is run your thread into the ground enough for a mod to close it down. Happens everyday.
    The irony. You realize that is exactly what you are doing by launching ad Homs and breaking forum rules with deragorty descriptions of people who hold an opposing view point to yours right? Your rhetoric is what shuts down threads, well that and the fact RDT threads have been beaten to death.

    I like how you immediately thought it was about you but deny any such allegations

    No sorry I did not think it was directed at me at any point in time. See prior to this comment I had only asked a question for the OP, which BTW still hasn't been answered. What would lead you to think this?

    Being that I did not take it as being directed towards me why would I deny it?

    Again its comments like this that get threads shut down.

    No dude YOU get threads closed. How many other people have to say it before you believe it? You clearly just show up to get a rise out of anyone you can.
  • AyyyyLmaooooAyyyyLmaoooo Posts: 42
    edited August 2017
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    chunkyb wrote: »
    Love to see the crew of self appointed authorities show up to put down any discussions they don't like. They're really good at nuking these inconvenient threads.

    Truth is, we don't know the full extent of the change in the game yet. Op makes a good and valid point but we're guessing about the new nodes. Wait until the update hits. Avoid these trolls as much as possible, because all they do is run your thread into the ground enough for a mod to close it down. Happens everyday.
    The irony. You realize that is exactly what you are doing by launching ad Homs and breaking forum rules with deragorty descriptions of people who hold an opposing view point to yours right? Your rhetoric is what shuts down threads, well that and the fact RDT threads have been beaten to death.

    I like how you immediately thought it was about you but deny any such allegations

    No sorry I did not think it was directed at me at any point in time. See prior to this comment I had only asked a question for the OP, which BTW still hasn't been answered. What would lead you to think this?

    Being that I did not take it as being directed towards me why would I deny it?

    Again its comments like this that get threads shut down.

    No dude YOU get threads closed. How many other people have to say it before you believe it? You clearly just show up to get a rise out of anyone you can.


    You're delusional if you're saying common sense is what gets threads like this closed down. This is a largely unconstructive post that does nothing but continue the incessant begging for RDTs. And this is something Kabam has constantly emphasised on that RDTs are strictly for character changes. It's just too bad you made poor decisions solely because the game requires it. Be flexible and think of different ways to use this to your advantage instead of constantly whining for rank down tickets. And you wonder why threads like this get closed down huh.

    And once again, my suggestion to prevent the unfair advantage RDTs provide to reversing poor rankups is making these tickets champion specific so players have a choice whether or not to reverse a champion's rankup that has a revamped playing style. @Kabam Miike

  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    chunkyb wrote: »
    Love to see the crew of self appointed authorities show up to put down any discussions they don't like. They're really good at nuking these inconvenient threads.

    Truth is, we don't know the full extent of the change in the game yet. Op makes a good and valid point but we're guessing about the new nodes. Wait until the update hits. Avoid these trolls as much as possible, because all they do is run your thread into the ground enough for a mod to close it down. Happens everyday.
    The irony. You realize that is exactly what you are doing by launching ad Homs and breaking forum rules with deragorty descriptions of people who hold an opposing view point to yours right? Your rhetoric is what shuts down threads, well that and the fact RDT threads have been beaten to death.

    I like how you immediately thought it was about you but deny any such allegations

    No sorry I did not think it was directed at me at any point in time. See prior to this comment I had only asked a question for the OP, which BTW still hasn't been answered. What would lead you to think this?

    Being that I did not take it as being directed towards me why would I deny it?

    Again its comments like this that get threads shut down.

    No dude YOU get threads closed. How many other people have to say it before you believe it? You clearly just show up to get a rise out of anyone you can.


    You're delusional if you're saying common sense is what gets threads like this closed down. This is a largely unconstructive post that does nothing but continue the incessant begging for RDTs. And this is something Kabam has constantly emphasised on that RDTs are strictly for character changes. It's just too bad you made poor decisions solely because the game requires it. Be flexible and think of different ways to use this to your advantage instead of constantly whining for rank down tickets. And you wonder why threads like this get closed down huh.
    FTFY

    @Kronos987654321 A moderator would need to say it to me.
  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,486 ★★★★★
    Kabam has been very clear that they don't want to ever have to give them out again.

    Then they should take a few minutes to remove the rdt points wording in SA.

  • EvilEmpireEvilEmpire Posts: 639 ★★★
    I don't think most of the anti rdt guys realize they are only going to indirectly nerf champs as much as possible going forward. As I said previously I could manipulate any champ in the game without actually touching them directly. I don't have a problem with ongoing balancing to keep the game fresh and adjust certain miss steps that may have been made but no need for kabam to be so stingy with rdt. As the landscape is changed give us the means to adjust our attack with it.
This discussion has been closed.