I'm not sure if you can still do that but I will definitely try. Thanks for providing the youtube clips! I will try to see if the game still allows this to happen and if it does you won't hear a peep out of me about specials while hitting blocks.
I'm not sure if you can still do that but I will definitely try. Thanks for providing the youtube clips! I will try to see if the game still allows this to happen and if it does you won't hear a peep out of me about specials while hitting blocks.
The Namor gif was recorded using the current game build, so yes you can “still” do this.
My 2 cents: people wouldn't react this way if Kabam dealt with bugs that are against the player base with the same urgency.
Such as?
Getting smacked in the face while hitting into block?? Prime example, swept under the rug for over a year.
It's been shown in video we can use our specials well the AI hits into our block. So if we can do it so can the AI. Also they have done multiple attempts to relieve that bug which has only worked for some player base. Making it a much harder fix.
My 2 cents: people wouldn't react this way if Kabam dealt with bugs that are against the player base with the same urgency.
Such as?
You must be new to the game.
Just finished my completion of act 6.4. Tell me again how new to the game I am
Your first statement is flat out false. You cannot throw a special 1 or special 2 will the opponent is hitting your block. If that was the case this game would be played totally differently. I wouldn't have to combo into special or intercept with one.
@TheTalents actually there was a video. I remember seeing it where the attacker threw a special while blocking the A.I. it has to do with the speed if of who ever is hitting into the block. I don't remember what thread it was in but it was posted here on the forums.
You got to prove that. I can say i just saw anything on the forums. Also, I've tried and I'm not able to do it.
If Kabam allowed us to special one or special 2 when fighting an aggressive AI hitting into our block, I would say its just a normal game mechanic now and move on.
From what i understand, it's not able to happen with aggressive AI. Same with an aggressive human. It has to do with the speed of the hits into the block. I've not tried it or actually had it happen during any of my fights mainly because I rarely ever hit into blocks. My muscle memory wants me to hit 5 times and I forget most of the time to stop lol.
I might be making a completely irrelevant point here but ghost with a tech power boost in 6.3.6 regains power when launching a special while destructive feedback is active, even though its based on damage dealt when captain America takes no damage as there’s “crit me with your best shot” (can’t crit with destructive feedback) and I know ghost has 100% crit chance with specials but he still takes no damage when the destructive feedback goes on cool down
This is very similar to the way MS and BWCV heal(ed) when the champions indestructible. So the damage is still being dealt he just takes non of it 🤷♂️
That sounds like another bug that we should log. I know there are inconsistencies in the language in the game. It's over 5 years old, and there's new content added at least twice a month, so inconsistencies will happen. We can work to fix it the best we can when they're discovered though.
Just spitballing here but why not give the community heads up when you plan to fix these inconsistencies? Also content that has been out for an extended time and many players have benefit from this could be left untouched?
When the BWCV interaction with The Champion was fixed was it for that fight only? Have you fixed this interaction in all areas of the game? Same with the upcoming change to the interaction between Morningstar and The Champion?
Seems to me that fixing the interaction between these abilities and indestructible, though it would possibly take longer, would best be fixed while being directed at that ability. Simply fixing it for one fight just screams to the community that you are only after their units to complete current meta.
More transparency and maybe some more time fixing bugs that hurt the player base might keep people from being so aggravated when these situations occur.
I get where you're coming from, but we let players know about this bug as soon as we identified it, and are giving more than a month's notice on the fix. As we mentioned earlier in this thread, this fix won't be coming until June.
There is never going to be a case where Bugs will remain untouched just because it's old. That's not healthy for any game, and can lead to a pretty rapid end.
I also personally am always striving for more transparency between us and our players, but I don't understand what more transparency we can give here. If I'm missing something, please let me know. As for the thing about Bugs that hurt players vs those that don't, I urge you to look back at the release notes for the last 30+ releases, and then also into the many many bug fixes we make Live. I think you'll find that this silly rumour has no footing.
I agree bugs should be fixed, but not like this. I still do not agree that this is a bug and you guys are just doing it anyways because it is another inconsistency with your poor descriptions, but why is this being fixed when an interaction in the 6.2.6 champion fight is showcased? It just seems suspicious and shady imo.
Whatever lets say that I agree on the fact that this is indeed a bug and it needs fixing. Then fix the other bugs that have been reported long before any of this regen/indestructible issue. I am talking about reported issues like:
The abyss skill champions bypassing the effects in that happen during the sp3 even though their node specifically says the AAR is only during basic attacks.
The number of abyss charges at the start of the fight being lower than what is written in the description.
Hitting into blocks being countered by specials
And etc.
These issues have been brought up way before and they are really problematic for players. Before trying to fix an interaction which is only relevant in the 6.2.6 champion matchup (please let me know if it is actually used anywhere else but this fight) could you please try fixing the actual issues in the game?
Most of these “bugs” you reference also allow for many “player beneficial” actions that people regularly rely on.
The abyss skill aar thing. 1) This happens due to the effects of a basic hit carrying into a special attack chained from that hit. Meaning, if you hit them with -100% OAAR and chain a special from that hit then the special also has -100% OAAR for the first hit (longer depending on the special and how it functions). 2) People regularly use this to their benefit with IMIW to increase the plasma damage from his special 3 by hitting the enemy with a heavy attack and immediately launching an s3 giving them increased attack from the heavy attack during their s3.
Hitting into blocks being countered by specials. 1) Players can do the same, equal footing. 2) Players regularly use the same/similar timing to dex out of a blocked combo or “reparry” the enemy. 3) Take away the timings that allow the AI to do this and you likely remove other abilities players have relied on for years.
It’s not a one way street where it’s just Kabam seeing the benefits of these issues, players also rely on these interactions while playing the game.
I might be making a completely irrelevant point here but ghost with a tech power boost in 6.3.6 regains power when launching a special while destructive feedback is active, even though its based on damage dealt when captain America takes no damage as there’s “crit me with your best shot” (can’t crit with destructive feedback) and I know ghost has 100% crit chance with specials but he still takes no damage when the destructive feedback goes on cool down
This is very similar to the way MS and BWCV heal(ed) when the champions indestructible. So the damage is still being dealt he just takes non of it 🤷♂️
That sounds like another bug that we should log. I know there are inconsistencies in the language in the game. It's over 5 years old, and there's new content added at least twice a month, so inconsistencies will happen. We can work to fix it the best we can when they're discovered though.
Just spitballing here but why not give the community heads up when you plan to fix these inconsistencies? Also content that has been out for an extended time and many players have benefit from this could be left untouched?
When the BWCV interaction with The Champion was fixed was it for that fight only? Have you fixed this interaction in all areas of the game? Same with the upcoming change to the interaction between Morningstar and The Champion?
Seems to me that fixing the interaction between these abilities and indestructible, though it would possibly take longer, would best be fixed while being directed at that ability. Simply fixing it for one fight just screams to the community that you are only after their units to complete current meta.
More transparency and maybe some more time fixing bugs that hurt the player base might keep people from being so aggravated when these situations occur.
I get where you're coming from, but we let players know about this bug as soon as we identified it, and are giving more than a month's notice on the fix. As we mentioned earlier in this thread, this fix won't be coming until June.
There is never going to be a case where Bugs will remain untouched just because it's old. That's not healthy for any game, and can lead to a pretty rapid end.
I also personally am always striving for more transparency between us and our players, but I don't understand what more transparency we can give here. If I'm missing something, please let me know. As for the thing about Bugs that hurt players vs those that don't, I urge you to look back at the release notes for the last 30+ releases, and then also into the many many bug fixes we make Live. I think you'll find that this silly rumour has no footing.
Thank you for your reply. I am not a programmer so I don't understand all of the intricacies but your point about not leaving bugs because it can lead to a rapid end for the game makes sense to me. To play devil's advocate on that point with direct regard to healing through indestructible it seems to me that has been occurring since the introduction of said mechanic. So is it really game breaking or could it just be called an intended interaction?
With regard to your point regarding fixes. I don't mean to diminish the work put into this game, I love it and you guys do fix problems on both sides. I don't want to derail this conversation but one "bug" that is a bone of contention is the ai ability to retaliate while hitting into block. Is there another post that could be discussed in so this one can not get side tracked?
Was that interaction game breaking in the past? Not really, but as the game has grown and more mechanics like that have become common, it does pose a serious issue where Champions are interacting incorrectly more than they used to. That's also why we were finally able to see it, since there are more places for this broken interaction to happen. It's not related to the Champion, but knowing that this is one of the most difficult fights in the game, and that interaction comes into play, I understand why people think this fix might be related to that.
As for the Blocking and Specials thing, we know it's an issue, and the thread surrounding that problem was closed because it was being targeted. That doesn't mean we're not aware, or ignoring it. We're making progress to alleviate the issue every release.
So if you're agreeing the mechanic is not game breaking as of this fight, leave it be the same way that character interactions are different in areas like LoL and RoL. You have the ability to make the life steal possible on this fight and going forward it will not be.
Hey there everyone, we wanted to drop in and weigh in on this again. To confirm, at 5 Souls, Morningstar has a chance to Life Steal 50% of the damage she deals, so she should not gain any health from attacks that deal 0 damage. Her being able to is a bug that we are working on a fix for and have documented in our Bugs and Known Issues thread here. We wanted to let everyone know ahead of time that a fix was coming for this, though it looks like it won't be able to be resolved until the 27.1 update at the earliest, which is currently slated for June. We also wanted to let everyone know that we are passing feedback on this and the Champion as a whole fight along to the rest of the team.
I suggest watching this video before saying that she deals 0 damage. The youtuber gives a very valid and relevant explanation regarding this issue, shoutout to @JaeSylvr
10%-0% health: Dark Match: The Champion gains 5 Indestructible charges, and while he has at least 1 charge he is immune to all damage.
So he is immune to damage but that most certainly does not state that the damage dealt is zero, it is just being ignored since the Champion is immune to damage. The damage is still there, he is just not taking it.
Morningstar still heals when he is hitting Luke Cage when the indestrucrible buff is on him, the damage is still there but he is immune to it because of the buff.
If the description was like the Descructive Feedback node, you guys would have been absolutely correct, the video points this out as well, but you guys are dead wrong about this fix and just trying to make this fight harder and harder every time some convenient and easy accessible counter is popular.
Trying to get back on track...has there been a comprehensive response to this point from Kabam? I am very interested to know their take on it, as it undermines the reason for making any change to both BWCV and MS.
Hey there everyone, we wanted to drop in and weigh in on this again. To confirm, at 5 Souls, Morningstar has a chance to Life Steal 50% of the damage she deals, so she should not gain any health from attacks that deal 0 damage. Her being able to is a bug that we are working on a fix for and have documented in our Bugs and Known Issues thread here. We wanted to let everyone know ahead of time that a fix was coming for this, though it looks like it won't be able to be resolved until the 27.1 update at the earliest, which is currently slated for June. We also wanted to let everyone know that we are passing feedback on this and the Champion as a whole fight along to the rest of the team.
I suggest watching this video before saying that she deals 0 damage. The youtuber gives a very valid and relevant explanation regarding this issue, shoutout to @JaeSylvr
10%-0% health: Dark Match: The Champion gains 5 Indestructible charges, and while he has at least 1 charge he is immune to all damage.
So he is immune to damage but that most certainly does not state that the damage dealt is zero, it is just being ignored since the Champion is immune to damage. The damage is still there, he is just not taking it.
Morningstar still heals when he is hitting Luke Cage when the indestrucrible buff is on him, the damage is still there but he is immune to it because of the buff.
If the description was like the Descructive Feedback node, you guys would have been absolutely correct, the video points this out as well, but you guys are dead wrong about this fix and just trying to make this fight harder and harder every time some convenient and easy accessible counter is popular.
Trying to get back on track...has there been a comprehensive response to this point from Kabam? I am very interested to know their take on it, as it undermines the reason for making any change to both BWCV and MS.
I'll copy and paste a response from a different thread, some of which applies to this video.
I think we're putting the focus here on the wrong place. Indestructible is not the issue, it's the "Life steal", and even then, it's not the term Life Steal, but the amount of Regeneration, and how that is determined.
I know there's a video about how Indestructible does not reduce Damage to Zero, but that video is basing it on a completely different game. In MCoC, Indestructible reduces the Damage dealt by an attack to Zero.
I'll be the first to admit that we haven't always used all of our terms in the game consistently. Life steal has been used to mean a variety of things, and we're going to take some time in the future to clear those interactions up. Life Steal is a player facing name for a Regeneration that is caused by an on-hit event. The term itself is not important, but the amount of health regenerated, and the method in which it is determined is the important part of our situation here.
Ghost Rider and Doctor Strange both have a Life Steal ability, but the ability text explains that it is a flat amount, and is unaffected by a boost to their attack, etc. Lore-wise, they are stealing the opponent's health, but as a game mechanic, they are regenerating a set amount of health on every hit. They are not literally taking their opponent's health.
Claire Voyant and Morningstar are also not physically taking their opponent's health either. When damage is dealt, on the back end, that damage is looked at, and then health is applied to the Champion. They are not literally taking their opponent's health. The ability here is that, when you hit your opponent, a damage calculation is done, and then a second calculation is done to determine how much health should be returned to these Champions. When you are doing zero damage (because indestructible should reduce your damage to 0), then you are regenerating a portion of 0 damage.
As for Rogue, Guillotine, Guillotine 2099, and probably others, we're going to take some time to go back and look at those interactions, make sure they're working correctly, and that the text is clear.
Hey there everyone, we wanted to drop in and weigh in on this again. To confirm, at 5 Souls, Morningstar has a chance to Life Steal 50% of the damage she deals, so she should not gain any health from attacks that deal 0 damage. Her being able to is a bug that we are working on a fix for and have documented in our Bugs and Known Issues thread here. We wanted to let everyone know ahead of time that a fix was coming for this, though it looks like it won't be able to be resolved until the 27.1 update at the earliest, which is currently slated for June. We also wanted to let everyone know that we are passing feedback on this and the Champion as a whole fight along to the rest of the team.
I suggest watching this video before saying that she deals 0 damage. The youtuber gives a very valid and relevant explanation regarding this issue, shoutout to @JaeSylvr
10%-0% health: Dark Match: The Champion gains 5 Indestructible charges, and while he has at least 1 charge he is immune to all damage.
So he is immune to damage but that most certainly does not state that the damage dealt is zero, it is just being ignored since the Champion is immune to damage. The damage is still there, he is just not taking it.
Morningstar still heals when he is hitting Luke Cage when the indestrucrible buff is on him, the damage is still there but he is immune to it because of the buff.
If the description was like the Descructive Feedback node, you guys would have been absolutely correct, the video points this out as well, but you guys are dead wrong about this fix and just trying to make this fight harder and harder every time some convenient and easy accessible counter is popular.
Trying to get back on track...has there been a comprehensive response to this point from Kabam? I am very interested to know their take on it, as it undermines the reason for making any change to both BWCV and MS.
I'll copy and paste a response from a different thread, some of which applies to this video.
I think we're putting the focus here on the wrong place. Indestructible is not the issue, it's the "Life steal", and even then, it's not the term Life Steal, but the amount of Regeneration, and how that is determined.
I know there's a video about how Indestructible does not reduce Damage to Zero, but that video is basing it on a completely different game. In MCoC, Indestructible reduces the Damage dealt by an attack to Zero.
I'll be the first to admit that we haven't always used all of our terms in the game consistently. Life steal has been used to mean a variety of things, and we're going to take some time in the future to clear those interactions up. Life Steal is a player facing name for a Regeneration that is caused by an on-hit event. The term itself is not important, but the amount of health regenerated, and the method in which it is determined is the important part of our situation here.
Ghost Rider and Doctor Strange both have a Life Steal ability, but the ability text explains that it is a flat amount, and is unaffected by a boost to their attack, etc. Lore-wise, they are stealing the opponent's health, but as a game mechanic, they are regenerating a set amount of health on every hit. They are not literally taking their opponent's health.
Claire Voyant and Morningstar are also not physically taking their opponent's health either. When damage is dealt, on the back end, that damage is looked at, and then health is applied to the Champion. They are not literally taking their opponent's health. The ability here is that, when you hit your opponent, a damage calculation is done, and then a second calculation is done to determine how much health should be returned to these Champions. When you are doing zero damage (because indestructible should reduce your damage to 0), then you are regenerating a portion of 0 damage.
As for Rogue, Guillotine, Guillotine 2099, and probably others, we're going to take some time to go back and look at those interactions, make sure they're working correctly, and that the text is clear.
But indestructible charges do not reduce damage to zero, they only prevent damage from actually being inflicted.
Hey there everyone, we wanted to drop in and weigh in on this again. To confirm, at 5 Souls, Morningstar has a chance to Life Steal 50% of the damage she deals, so she should not gain any health from attacks that deal 0 damage. Her being able to is a bug that we are working on a fix for and have documented in our Bugs and Known Issues thread here. We wanted to let everyone know ahead of time that a fix was coming for this, though it looks like it won't be able to be resolved until the 27.1 update at the earliest, which is currently slated for June. We also wanted to let everyone know that we are passing feedback on this and the Champion as a whole fight along to the rest of the team.
I suggest watching this video before saying that she deals 0 damage. The youtuber gives a very valid and relevant explanation regarding this issue, shoutout to @JaeSylvr
10%-0% health: Dark Match: The Champion gains 5 Indestructible charges, and while he has at least 1 charge he is immune to all damage.
So he is immune to damage but that most certainly does not state that the damage dealt is zero, it is just being ignored since the Champion is immune to damage. The damage is still there, he is just not taking it.
Morningstar still heals when he is hitting Luke Cage when the indestrucrible buff is on him, the damage is still there but he is immune to it because of the buff.
If the description was like the Descructive Feedback node, you guys would have been absolutely correct, the video points this out as well, but you guys are dead wrong about this fix and just trying to make this fight harder and harder every time some convenient and easy accessible counter is popular.
Trying to get back on track...has there been a comprehensive response to this point from Kabam? I am very interested to know their take on it, as it undermines the reason for making any change to both BWCV and MS.
I'll copy and paste a response from a different thread, some of which applies to this video.
I think we're putting the focus here on the wrong place. Indestructible is not the issue, it's the "Life steal", and even then, it's not the term Life Steal, but the amount of Regeneration, and how that is determined.
I know there's a video about how Indestructible does not reduce Damage to Zero, but that video is basing it on a completely different game. In MCoC, Indestructible reduces the Damage dealt by an attack to Zero.
I'll be the first to admit that we haven't always used all of our terms in the game consistently. Life steal has been used to mean a variety of things, and we're going to take some time in the future to clear those interactions up. Life Steal is a player facing name for a Regeneration that is caused by an on-hit event. The term itself is not important, but the amount of health regenerated, and the method in which it is determined is the important part of our situation here.
Ghost Rider and Doctor Strange both have a Life Steal ability, but the ability text explains that it is a flat amount, and is unaffected by a boost to their attack, etc. Lore-wise, they are stealing the opponent's health, but as a game mechanic, they are regenerating a set amount of health on every hit. They are not literally taking their opponent's health.
Claire Voyant and Morningstar are also not physically taking their opponent's health either. When damage is dealt, on the back end, that damage is looked at, and then health is applied to the Champion. They are not literally taking their opponent's health. The ability here is that, when you hit your opponent, a damage calculation is done, and then a second calculation is done to determine how much health should be returned to these Champions. When you are doing zero damage (because indestructible should reduce your damage to 0), then you are regenerating a portion of 0 damage.
As for Rogue, Guillotine, Guillotine 2099, and probably others, we're going to take some time to go back and look at those interactions, make sure they're working correctly, and that the text is clear.
If we do not see the number 0 when we hit the opponent how are we supposed to know that we deal 0 damage? When you hit an opponent that has power shield using basic attacks the number 0 shows up, similarly when you hit an opponent that is on a Do you Bleed? node the number 0 shows up. That is not the case when you hit an opponent that has an indestructible charge on them. You can heal off Luke Cage using MS when he has his indestructible buff on him this means the damage is still registered in the implementation. If MS is hitting 2000 on her hit, that damage is still registered as 2000 but because of the way indestructible is, it does not get applied on the opponent since they are immune to the damage. However this does not in any way indicate that 0 damage is occurring since if that were the case we would explicitly see the number 0. Their health bar may stay the same but that was never because you dealt 0 damage, the number 0 never shows up, it is just ignored because of damage immunity due to the Indestructible charges/buff. You are saying that indestructible charges should reduce damage to 0 but it most certainly does not do that and has not been doing that ever.
Saying that it should be like that does not change the fact that it has has not been working that way for years. Like I said before I am done with Act 6 content and I could not care less about that 6.2.6 fight, my MS is not even ranked pass r3 and I do no own a BWCV. However the way things are changed just to make sure that the 6.2.6 boss is harder is not sitting right with me, I feel as if you guys are dancing around the description to alter the "intended" way something should work as you go along. I know that me saying this will not change anything because you guys will do whatever you want anyways but I just want to say that I certainly do not like the way things are handled right now.
As we've stated, that is not correct. The damage is not happening, and as we've already established, the bug is that the game thinks that it is happening, and the health is being returned. Morningstar should not be regenerating while attacking Luke Cage with his indestructible up. That is the bug that is being fixed. This is not solely about The Champion, and never has been.
When you attack an indestructible Champion, and do no Damage, no damage is being dealt. This is what it has always done, and is not debatable, because it's a simple fact. It's an old Buff though, so not seeing Zeros then, but seeing them on new content can be because it was implemented differently.
It's pretty clear that the decision has already been firmly made so there's no point to really keep arguing it. It is what it is. I'm just annoyed why they insist on enforcing this consistency here but they never answered questions about consistency in other content like LoL evading champs that can't be evaded...Yes this thread is specifically about the MS life steal bug, but their whole defense is that they have to go back and fix what they consider "mistaken interactions" and can't leave things as is b/c that will quickly kill the game. However, evidence against that defense seems to be ignored.
Hey there everyone, we wanted to drop in and weigh in on this again. To confirm, at 5 Souls, Morningstar has a chance to Life Steal 50% of the damage she deals, so she should not gain any health from attacks that deal 0 damage. Her being able to is a bug that we are working on a fix for and have documented in our Bugs and Known Issues thread here. We wanted to let everyone know ahead of time that a fix was coming for this, though it looks like it won't be able to be resolved until the 27.1 update at the earliest, which is currently slated for June. We also wanted to let everyone know that we are passing feedback on this and the Champion as a whole fight along to the rest of the team.
I suggest watching this video before saying that she deals 0 damage. The youtuber gives a very valid and relevant explanation regarding this issue, shoutout to @JaeSylvr
10%-0% health: Dark Match: The Champion gains 5 Indestructible charges, and while he has at least 1 charge he is immune to all damage.
So he is immune to damage but that most certainly does not state that the damage dealt is zero, it is just being ignored since the Champion is immune to damage. The damage is still there, he is just not taking it.
Morningstar still heals when he is hitting Luke Cage when the indestrucrible buff is on him, the damage is still there but he is immune to it because of the buff.
If the description was like the Descructive Feedback node, you guys would have been absolutely correct, the video points this out as well, but you guys are dead wrong about this fix and just trying to make this fight harder and harder every time some convenient and easy accessible counter is popular.
Trying to get back on track...has there been a comprehensive response to this point from Kabam? I am very interested to know their take on it, as it undermines the reason for making any change to both BWCV and MS.
I'll copy and paste a response from a different thread, some of which applies to this video.
I think we're putting the focus here on the wrong place. Indestructible is not the issue, it's the "Life steal", and even then, it's not the term Life Steal, but the amount of Regeneration, and how that is determined.
I know there's a video about how Indestructible does not reduce Damage to Zero, but that video is basing it on a completely different game. In MCoC, Indestructible reduces the Damage dealt by an attack to Zero.
I'll be the first to admit that we haven't always used all of our terms in the game consistently. Life steal has been used to mean a variety of things, and we're going to take some time in the future to clear those interactions up. Life Steal is a player facing name for a Regeneration that is caused by an on-hit event. The term itself is not important, but the amount of health regenerated, and the method in which it is determined is the important part of our situation here.
Ghost Rider and Doctor Strange both have a Life Steal ability, but the ability text explains that it is a flat amount, and is unaffected by a boost to their attack, etc. Lore-wise, they are stealing the opponent's health, but as a game mechanic, they are regenerating a set amount of health on every hit. They are not literally taking their opponent's health.
Claire Voyant and Morningstar are also not physically taking their opponent's health either. When damage is dealt, on the back end, that damage is looked at, and then health is applied to the Champion. They are not literally taking their opponent's health. The ability here is that, when you hit your opponent, a damage calculation is done, and then a second calculation is done to determine how much health should be returned to these Champions. When you are doing zero damage (because indestructible should reduce your damage to 0), then you are regenerating a portion of 0 damage.
As for Rogue, Guillotine, Guillotine 2099, and probably others, we're going to take some time to go back and look at those interactions, make sure they're working correctly, and that the text is clear.
If we do not see the number 0 when we hit the opponent how are we supposed to know that we deal 0 damage? When you hit an opponent that has power shield using basic attacks the number 0 shows up, similarly when you hit an opponent that is on a Do you Bleed? node the number 0 shows up. That is not the case when you hit an opponent that has an indestructible charge on them. You can heal off Luke Cage using MS when he has his indestructible buff on him this means the damage is still registered in the implementation. If MS is hitting 2000 on her hit, that damage is still registered as 2000 but because of the way indestructible is, it does not get applied on the opponent since they are immune to the damage. However this does not in any way indicate that 0 damage is occurring since if that were the case we would explicitly see the number 0. Their health bar may stay the same but that was never because you dealt 0 damage, the number 0 never shows up, it is just ignored because of damage immunity due to the Indestructible charges/buff. You are saying that indestructible charges should reduce damage to 0 but it most certainly does not do that and has not been doing that ever.
Saying that it should be like that does not change the fact that it has has not been working that way for years. Like I said before I am done with Act 6 content and I could not care less about that 6.2.6 fight, my MS is not even ranked pass r3 and I do no own a BWCV. However the way things are changed just to make sure that the 6.2.6 boss is harder is not sitting right with me, I feel as if you guys are dancing around the description to alter the "intended" way something should work as you go along. I know that me saying this will not change anything because you guys will do whatever you want anyways but I just want to say that I certainly do not like the way things are handled right now.
Did you really just ask if the number 0 Isnt there, how are you supposed to know if you aren't doing damage? Isnt the absence of any number a sign? Or that the health bar isn't going down? Could it be that it says it in the description of the indestructible buff?
If I give you a empty jar is there $0 money or no money being seen?
Hey there everyone, we wanted to drop in and weigh in on this again. To confirm, at 5 Souls, Morningstar has a chance to Life Steal 50% of the damage she deals, so she should not gain any health from attacks that deal 0 damage. Her being able to is a bug that we are working on a fix for and have documented in our Bugs and Known Issues thread here. We wanted to let everyone know ahead of time that a fix was coming for this, though it looks like it won't be able to be resolved until the 27.1 update at the earliest, which is currently slated for June. We also wanted to let everyone know that we are passing feedback on this and the Champion as a whole fight along to the rest of the team.
I suggest watching this video before saying that she deals 0 damage. The youtuber gives a very valid and relevant explanation regarding this issue, shoutout to @JaeSylvr
10%-0% health: Dark Match: The Champion gains 5 Indestructible charges, and while he has at least 1 charge he is immune to all damage.
So he is immune to damage but that most certainly does not state that the damage dealt is zero, it is just being ignored since the Champion is immune to damage. The damage is still there, he is just not taking it.
Morningstar still heals when he is hitting Luke Cage when the indestrucrible buff is on him, the damage is still there but he is immune to it because of the buff.
If the description was like the Descructive Feedback node, you guys would have been absolutely correct, the video points this out as well, but you guys are dead wrong about this fix and just trying to make this fight harder and harder every time some convenient and easy accessible counter is popular.
Trying to get back on track...has there been a comprehensive response to this point from Kabam? I am very interested to know their take on it, as it undermines the reason for making any change to both BWCV and MS.
I'll copy and paste a response from a different thread, some of which applies to this video.
I think we're putting the focus here on the wrong place. Indestructible is not the issue, it's the "Life steal", and even then, it's not the term Life Steal, but the amount of Regeneration, and how that is determined.
I know there's a video about how Indestructible does not reduce Damage to Zero, but that video is basing it on a completely different game. In MCoC, Indestructible reduces the Damage dealt by an attack to Zero.
I'll be the first to admit that we haven't always used all of our terms in the game consistently. Life steal has been used to mean a variety of things, and we're going to take some time in the future to clear those interactions up. Life Steal is a player facing name for a Regeneration that is caused by an on-hit event. The term itself is not important, but the amount of health regenerated, and the method in which it is determined is the important part of our situation here.
Ghost Rider and Doctor Strange both have a Life Steal ability, but the ability text explains that it is a flat amount, and is unaffected by a boost to their attack, etc. Lore-wise, they are stealing the opponent's health, but as a game mechanic, they are regenerating a set amount of health on every hit. They are not literally taking their opponent's health.
Claire Voyant and Morningstar are also not physically taking their opponent's health either. When damage is dealt, on the back end, that damage is looked at, and then health is applied to the Champion. They are not literally taking their opponent's health. The ability here is that, when you hit your opponent, a damage calculation is done, and then a second calculation is done to determine how much health should be returned to these Champions. When you are doing zero damage (because indestructible should reduce your damage to 0), then you are regenerating a portion of 0 damage.
As for Rogue, Guillotine, Guillotine 2099, and probably others, we're going to take some time to go back and look at those interactions, make sure they're working correctly, and that the text is clear.
If we do not see the number 0 when we hit the opponent how are we supposed to know that we deal 0 damage? When you hit an opponent that has power shield using basic attacks the number 0 shows up, similarly when you hit an opponent that is on a Do you Bleed? node the number 0 shows up. That is not the case when you hit an opponent that has an indestructible charge on them. You can heal off Luke Cage using MS when he has his indestructible buff on him this means the damage is still registered in the implementation. If MS is hitting 2000 on her hit, that damage is still registered as 2000 but because of the way indestructible is, it does not get applied on the opponent since they are immune to the damage. However this does not in any way indicate that 0 damage is occurring since if that were the case we would explicitly see the number 0. Their health bar may stay the same but that was never because you dealt 0 damage, the number 0 never shows up, it is just ignored because of damage immunity due to the Indestructible charges/buff. You are saying that indestructible charges should reduce damage to 0 but it most certainly does not do that and has not been doing that ever.
Saying that it should be like that does not change the fact that it has has not been working that way for years. Like I said before I am done with Act 6 content and I could not care less about that 6.2.6 fight, my MS is not even ranked pass r3 and I do no own a BWCV. However the way things are changed just to make sure that the 6.2.6 boss is harder is not sitting right with me, I feel as if you guys are dancing around the description to alter the "intended" way something should work as you go along. I know that me saying this will not change anything because you guys will do whatever you want anyways but I just want to say that I certainly do not like the way things are handled right now.
Did you really just ask if the number 0 Isnt there, how are you supposed to know if you aren't doing damage? Isnt the absence of any number a sign? Or that the health bar isn't going down? Could it be that it says it in the description of the indestructible buff?
If I give you a empty jar is there $0 money or no money being seen?
No the absence of the number is a sign of the opposite because I have clearly given explicit examples of where the 0 shows up and when no number shows up it clearly does not imply that the damage is 0. I have also explained why the health bar is not going down when I stated the descriptions of the indestructible effects which still do not state anything about 0 damage. Your argument does not make sense, is invalid and off topic.
We're not going to discuss this theory any further. This is false, and we've said so repeatedly. The team that created the system and game know how it is implemented, and they vetted the information I gave you. We welcome your input and opinion on the bug fix itself, but we won't be entertaining theories on a strictly true or false Fact. There are no shades of grey here.
I didn’t say it was but type in morningstar and champion boss and this ability is been advertised by members of the ccp since the release of 6.2. Not saying they were in the wrong at all. Kabam is completely in the wrong here. They say the game team knows how it was “SUPPOSED” to be implemented. Then why the heck didn’t they implement it that way? Why the heck did it take so long for them to decide to implement it the way they want it to be. It’s bs man. They shouldn’t just be able to do whatever the heck they want whenever the heck they want.
I didn’t say it was but type in morningstar and champion boss and this ability is been advertised by members of the ccp since the release of 6.2. Not saying they were in the wrong at all. Kabam is completely in the wrong here. They say the game team knows how it was “SUPPOSED” to be implemented. Then why the heck didn’t they implement it that way? Why the heck did it take so long for them to decide to implement it the way they want it to be. It’s bs man. They shouldn’t just be able to do whatever the heck they want whenever the heck they want.
What do you mean by in the wrong? In the wrong in the sense that they're responsible for the bug, yes. It's their game. They're certainly not in the wrong for fixing it. That's their job.
That is totally unfair to those haven’t done The Champion fight yet. Many people have taken advantage of those champions for beating this fight and now the rest have to do it without these assets. In my opinion the very least Kabam needs to do to compensate for this and restore balance is to tone down this toxic fight and reduce The Champion indestructible charges to 3 instead of 5. The no retreat path is close to undoable now.
This happens to me all the time as well. Everyone units through on day one and gets an easier time doing it because of stuff like this and then just before I'm finally about to finish they do this. Same thing for years now. I don't know what they can do to stop this from happening besides checking things before the cone out. Experienced players would have seen this instantly as a bug whenever a life steal works when the champion isn't doing any damage.
Comments
The abyss skill aar thing.
1) This happens due to the effects of a basic hit carrying into a special attack chained from that hit. Meaning, if you hit them with -100% OAAR and chain a special from that hit then the special also has -100% OAAR for the first hit (longer depending on the special and how it functions).
2) People regularly use this to their benefit with IMIW to increase the plasma damage from his special 3 by hitting the enemy with a heavy attack and immediately launching an s3 giving them increased attack from the heavy attack during their s3.
Hitting into blocks being countered by specials.
1) Players can do the same, equal footing.
2) Players regularly use the same/similar timing to dex out of a blocked combo or “reparry” the enemy.
3) Take away the timings that allow the AI to do this and you likely remove other abilities players have relied on for years.
It’s not a one way street where it’s just Kabam seeing the benefits of these issues, players also rely on these interactions while playing the game.
I think we're putting the focus here on the wrong place. Indestructible is not the issue, it's the "Life steal", and even then, it's not the term Life Steal, but the amount of Regeneration, and how that is determined.
I know there's a video about how Indestructible does not reduce Damage to Zero, but that video is basing it on a completely different game. In MCoC, Indestructible reduces the Damage dealt by an attack to Zero.
I'll be the first to admit that we haven't always used all of our terms in the game consistently. Life steal has been used to mean a variety of things, and we're going to take some time in the future to clear those interactions up. Life Steal is a player facing name for a Regeneration that is caused by an on-hit event. The term itself is not important, but the amount of health regenerated, and the method in which it is determined is the important part of our situation here.
Ghost Rider and Doctor Strange both have a Life Steal ability, but the ability text explains that it is a flat amount, and is unaffected by a boost to their attack, etc. Lore-wise, they are stealing the opponent's health, but as a game mechanic, they are regenerating a set amount of health on every hit. They are not literally taking their opponent's health.
Claire Voyant and Morningstar are also not physically taking their opponent's health either. When damage is dealt, on the back end, that damage is looked at, and then health is applied to the Champion. They are not literally taking their opponent's health. The ability here is that, when you hit your opponent, a damage calculation is done, and then a second calculation is done to determine how much health should be returned to these Champions. When you are doing zero damage (because indestructible should reduce your damage to 0), then you are regenerating a portion of 0 damage.
As for Rogue, Guillotine, Guillotine 2099, and probably others, we're going to take some time to go back and look at those interactions, make sure they're working correctly, and that the text is clear.
When you attack an indestructible Champion, and do no Damage, no damage is being dealt. This is what it has always done, and is not debatable, because it's a simple fact. It's an old Buff though, so not seeing Zeros then, but seeing them on new content can be because it was implemented differently.
If I give you a empty jar is there $0 money or no money being seen?