Act 7 - Where do we go from here?

Worknprogress · December 2020

Kill_Grey said:
Why do people on here think variants are not hard? 🤔

They have good balanced decent size rosters

Kill_Grey · December 2020

SwarmOfRavens said:

Kill_Grey said:
Why do people on here think variants are not hard? 🤔
They've gotten progressively easier imo
Hardest part of v4 was having a 1* hulk
V5 was pretty much a freebie if you had a good mystic roster

V1 and XL variants were the last difficult ones. If you've got thing you can just cheese them though

Idk man, I found variants to be pretty hard and energy consuming, and I've done all except variant 1. I've run through variant 2 either way, and it doesn't seem like an XL champ like thing is necessary tbh, especially when you've got champs like Quake, hype, AA.

Nevertheless, in my experience running through variant 3-5 exploration, there's some severely restrictive paths that require you to have a counter, even if it's the 4* version. The attack values are absurd, and the block damage is benign.

Iron_Patriot_is_lit · December 2020

I’d rather have fun and engaging content that happens to be easier than other content as opposed to hard, tedious, and annoying content.

SwarmOfRavens · December 2020

Kill_Grey said:

SwarmOfRavens said:

Kill_Grey said:
Why do people on here think variants are not hard? 🤔
They've gotten progressively easier imo
Hardest part of v4 was having a 1* hulk
V5 was pretty much a freebie if you had a good mystic roster

V1 and XL variants were the last difficult ones. If you've got thing you can just cheese them though
Idk man, I found variants to be pretty hard and energy consuming, and I've done all except variant 1. I've run through variant 2 either way, and it doesn't seem like an XL champ like thing is necessary tbh, especially when you've got champs like Quake, hype, AA.

Nevertheless, in my experience running through variant 3-5 exploration, there's some severely restrictive paths that require you to have a counter, even if it's the 4* version. The attack values are absurd, and the block damage is benign.

Roster depth will be a big factor in how you perceive variants. I did XL variant using stark Spidey and heavy countering. I felt it was hard at the time but I was just being stubborn cause my roster wasn't built. If I had access to XL champs I would've found it much easier.

I can't think of v4 as anything other than a cheapshot. Can't exactly call it hard when all my item use came from brute forcing caustic temper with gamora.

There are some restrictive fights in variants but being able to bring in 4* make them minor annoyances rather than roadblocks

Lormif · December 2020

SwarmOfRavens said:

Kill_Grey said:

SwarmOfRavens said:

Kill_Grey said:
Why do people on here think variants are not hard? 🤔
They've gotten progressively easier imo
Hardest part of v4 was having a 1* hulk
V5 was pretty much a freebie if you had a good mystic roster

V1 and XL variants were the last difficult ones. If you've got thing you can just cheese them though
Idk man, I found variants to be pretty hard and energy consuming, and I've done all except variant 1. I've run through variant 2 either way, and it doesn't seem like an XL champ like thing is necessary tbh, especially when you've got champs like Quake, hype, AA.

Nevertheless, in my experience running through variant 3-5 exploration, there's some severely restrictive paths that require you to have a counter, even if it's the 4* version. The attack values are absurd, and the block damage is benign.
Roster depth will be a big factor in how you perceive variants. I did XL variant using stark Spidey and heavy countering. I felt it was hard at the time but I was just being stubborn cause my roster wasn't built. If I had access to XL champs I would've found it much easier.

I can't think of v4 as anything other than a cheapshot. Can't exactly call it hard when all my item use came from brute forcing caustic temper with gamora.

There are some restrictive fights in variants but being able to bring in 4* make them minor annoyances rather than roadblocks

This, and if you dont have a deep enough roster to handle variants you are probably relying on luck to get TB.

SkyLord7000 · December 2020

I think it’s good. Easier to do initial because it’s fluid with all champs making less of a meta. I feel it’s a lot harder to explore unless you have a developed roster which works well.

StevieManWonder · December 2020

danielmath said:
Summer of pain is what people tell me but story content i do think is dead

It’s not dead just not endgame content. We do sorely need actual endgame content and Kabam really needs to get on that

StevieManWonder · December 2020

DonDudu2809 said:
Who did you use for Vision?

I soloed him with Man-Thing both times

Palanthrax · December 2020

Ugh, these threads. So dramatic, and an opportunity for a non-subtle flex.

It's not "easy". I've explored all content in the game 100%, I find this on-par with 6.3 / 6.4 in terms of exploration. I'm officially at the 51% explored mark, and there are some very challenging paths that require a developed roster.

Let's not get all melodramatic. There is maybe 0.5% of the playerbase that can complete this content itemless and "faceroll" it, but should act 7 be made for the 0.5%? No, it should be made for Thronebreakers, and should be aimed somewhere in the middle of that group.

pseudosane · December 2020

Story content is not optional, it HAS to be done. Anything else is optional. Challenges, optional side quest are "fair game" to be more challenging. Not permanent content.
I saw you used revives, if it wasn't challenging and so easy, why the revive? It is the attitude shift, that is all. Want to make it more challenging? play with one hand. Stop complaining for difficulty of story content that everyone has to go through to progress. It is meant to be fun, and not overly hard.

Etjama · December 2020

There's a big difference between "Difficult" and "BS". Let's compare Act 6 ideology to Act 7 ideology.

6.1 Sabre: You can't dash back more than twice, so you have to block hits of his specials while he has oscillate which means lots of block damage.

6.2 Sinister: You have to have buffs to do damage, but we're going to punish you for having buffs.

6.2 OR: You get degened by the global, so OR is going to melt you.

6.2 Mordo: Crazy power gain and a defensive state so you're likely to die, and when you do, your whole team will suffer. Not to mention you're going to die from the global unless you use tons of heavies, but you can't attack him while he's stunned.

6.2 No Retreat Champion: Extremely high block pen and a phase where you get stunned if you make any contact while he's unstoppable, but you get punished for dashing back.

6.3 CAIW: He will throw a Sp3, but most power controlling abilities will be glanced.

Not to mention the vast amount of BS path fights like 6.1.6 and 6.2.5 Electro, 6.2.6 Killmonger, 6.4.1 Gwenpool, and whole paths like Can't Stop Won't Stop. These are just a few of many. For a much better and in-depth analysis, I can't possibly do any better than this man right here:
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/226119/act-6-focus-group-feedback/p1

Meanwhile in Act 7:

You'll take debuffs on this path, but if you use this type of champ in a certain way, you can shrug the debuffs.

You need this type of debuff to do damage, but if you use this kind of champ in a certain way, you can place that debuff.

You need this type of buff to do damage, but if you use this type of champ in a certain way, you can get that buff.

See a pattern here? Act 6 hurts you for the very thing it requires of you while Act 7 has found that perfect combination of roster and skill dependancy and in trade, you get damage boosts. I couldn't possibly ask for more.

IKON · December 2020

Etjama said:
There's a big difference between "Difficult" and "BS". Let's compare Act 6 ideology to Act 7 ideology.

6.1 Sabre: You can't dash back more than twice, so you have to block hits of his specials while he has oscillate which means lots of block damage.

6.2 Sinister: You have to have buffs to do damage, but we're going to punish you for having buffs.

6.2 OR: You get degened by the global, so OR is going to melt you.

6.2 Mordo: Crazy power gain and a defensive state so you're likely to die, and when you do, your whole team will suffer. Not to mention you're going to die from the global unless you use tons of heavies, but you can't attack him while he's stunned.

6.2 No Retreat Champion: Extremely high block pen and a phase where you get stunned if you make any contact while he's unstoppable, but you get punished for dashing back.

6.3 CAIW: He will throw a Sp3, but most power controlling abilities will be glanced.

Not to mention the vast amount of BS path fights like 6.1.6 and 6.2.5 Electro, 6.2.6 Killmonger, 6.4.1 Gwenpool, and whole paths like Can't Stop Won't Stop. These are just a few of many. For a much better and in-depth analysis, I can't possibly do any better than this man right here:
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/226119/act-6-focus-group-feedback/p1

Meanwhile in Act 7:

You'll take debuffs on this path, but if you use this type of champ in a certain way, you can shrug the debuffs.

You need this type of debuff to do damage, but if you use this kind of champ in a certain way, you can place that debuff.

You need this type of buff to do damage, but if you use this type of champ in a certain way, you can get that buff.

See a pattern here? Act 6 hurts you for the very thing it requires of you while Act 7 has found that perfect combination of roster and skill dependancy and in trade, you get damage boosts. I couldn't possibly ask for more.

Act 6 is hard, Act 7 is easy. Glad we agree.

SkyLord7000 · December 2020

To Act 8

Mauled · December 2020

Lormif said:

Kill_Grey said:
Why do people on here think variants are not hard? 🤔
because other than v1 they are not.

That’s subjective. Don’t forget that you and a fair few of the people on this forum are surfing far ahead of the curve in both skill and roster. The nature of your demographic is that content designed to truly challenge you wouldn’t really achieve it’s goal in most cases because if it is too hard or there’s BS in it unitman will come out which defeats the purpose of creating the challenge. I’m not criticising using items/units but the nature of the leading edge is that they need the resources from the content immediately to stop falling themselves falling behind.
Things like legends rewards don’t help here either because they encourage you to smash 3 months worth of dev work in as fast a time as possible.

Mauled · December 2020

IKON said:

Etjama said:
There's a big difference between "Difficult" and "BS". Let's compare Act 6 ideology to Act 7 ideology.

6.1 Sabre: You can't dash back more than twice, so you have to block hits of his specials while he has oscillate which means lots of block damage.

6.2 Sinister: You have to have buffs to do damage, but we're going to punish you for having buffs.

6.2 OR: You get degened by the global, so OR is going to melt you.

6.2 Mordo: Crazy power gain and a defensive state so you're likely to die, and when you do, your whole team will suffer. Not to mention you're going to die from the global unless you use tons of heavies, but you can't attack him while he's stunned.

6.2 No Retreat Champion: Extremely high block pen and a phase where you get stunned if you make any contact while he's unstoppable, but you get punished for dashing back.

6.3 CAIW: He will throw a Sp3, but most power controlling abilities will be glanced.

Not to mention the vast amount of BS path fights like 6.1.6 and 6.2.5 Electro, 6.2.6 Killmonger, 6.4.1 Gwenpool, and whole paths like Can't Stop Won't Stop. These are just a few of many. For a much better and in-depth analysis, I can't possibly do any better than this man right here:
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/226119/act-6-focus-group-feedback/p1

Meanwhile in Act 7:

You'll take debuffs on this path, but if you use this type of champ in a certain way, you can shrug the debuffs.

You need this type of debuff to do damage, but if you use this kind of champ in a certain way, you can place that debuff.

You need this type of buff to do damage, but if you use this type of champ in a certain way, you can get that buff.

See a pattern here? Act 6 hurts you for the very thing it requires of you while Act 7 has found that perfect combination of roster and skill dependancy and in trade, you get damage boosts. I couldn't possibly ask for more.
Act 6 is hard, Act 7 is easy. Glad we agree.

I think what has happened is that people have got used to the idea that ‘hard’ content is ‘BS’ content. Most of what he quoted there resulted in either brute force through units, limiting you to 2-3 counters out of a potential ~160 or straight up penalisation.
This iteration of Act content rewards you for playing in a certain, usually skilful way, but doesn’t overtly penalise you for not being able to meet these exacting conditions.
If you take the can’t stop won’t stop in 7.1 compared to 6.3 IIRC you’ve got a far more rounded piece of content:
6.3 - Ignore the node and do minimal damage - direct counters can be counted on one hand.
7.2 Ignore the node and do minimal damage. Incorporate heavy attacks while using mystics and gain unstoppable, or manage the unstoppable timers and gain unstoppable.

Personally, I’d rather the fun rather than just use Magneto.

Raichu626 · December 2020

JoshKosh557 said:

Raichu626 said:

Lormif said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:
It's the first chapter guys, Act 6 was able to get a lot harder from 6.1 to 6.4 so I have no doubt that it will get harder in later chapters
6.1 was already *hard*, the increase in difficulty from 6.1 to 6.4 was not that large.
You guys really operate on a different plane of reality, don't you? 6.1 was quite the breeze for me (probably waited too long to do it tbh), but 6.2 took and 6.3 is currently taking a lot more effort on my part.
6.3 and 6.4 really rnt that bad anymore

Dude, I'm in the middle of 6.3 atm. I know for a fact that it is quite a lot more challenging than 6.1. Because I've done 6.1, even with a much less developed roster than I have now, and am not blind. Y'all can stop trying to convince me of something I know not to be true.

Lormif · December 2020

Mauled said:

Lormif said:

Kill_Grey said:
Why do people on here think variants are not hard? 🤔
because other than v1 they are not.
That’s subjective. Don’t forget that you and a fair few of the people on this forum are surfing far ahead of the curve in both skill and roster. The nature of your demographic is that content designed to truly challenge you wouldn’t really achieve it’s goal in most cases because if it is too hard or there’s BS in it unitman will come out which defeats the purpose of creating the challenge. I’m not criticising using items/units but the nature of the leading edge is that they need the resources from the content immediately to stop falling themselves falling behind.
Things like legends rewards don’t help here either because they encourage you to smash 3 months worth of dev work in as fast a time as possible.

I know it is subjective, it is almost like we have *progressed* further than others, and probably have differnt needs in *progression*

TheEducation · December 2020

I wish I could empathize more with the players who wish this was more difficult. I've only done 2 paths so far and I'm finding it, dare I say, fun. Feels waaay less restrictive and not chock full of bs.
Its a weird feeling for sure in that I'm not accustomed to actually enjoying SQ (its been a minute for sure) but I like it!

Mauled · December 2020

Lormif said:

Mauled said:

Lormif said:

Kill_Grey said:
Why do people on here think variants are not hard? 🤔
because other than v1 they are not.
That’s subjective. Don’t forget that you and a fair few of the people on this forum are surfing far ahead of the curve in both skill and roster. The nature of your demographic is that content designed to truly challenge you wouldn’t really achieve it’s goal in most cases because if it is too hard or there’s BS in it unitman will come out which defeats the purpose of creating the challenge. I’m not criticising using items/units but the nature of the leading edge is that they need the resources from the content immediately to stop falling themselves falling behind.
Things like legends rewards don’t help here either because they encourage you to smash 3 months worth of dev work in as fast a time as possible.
I know it is subjective, it is almost like we have *progressed* further than others, and probably have differnt needs in *progression*

It’s nothing about progression. It’s about game design viability and the mindset that has been manufactured in the prestige race that everything must be completed within 24 hours and if it hasn’t cost you an Odin to explore it is by definition easy because the peons who don’t spend so much can also complete it.

Imagine reading past the first sentence, wouldn’t that be a miracle, that’d be a nice one to factor into your own progression curve.

Cmdrake428_ · December 2020

Who did you use for the unlimited power path?

TheTalents · December 2020

Lormif said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:
It's the first chapter guys, Act 6 was able to get a lot harder from 6.1 to 6.4 so I have no doubt that it will get harder in later chapters
6.1 was already *hard*, the increase in difficulty from 6.1 to 6.4 was not that large.

Not true, go back and look how many people said 6.1 was easy. I think you're having revisionist history.

Kill_Grey · December 2020

HI_guys said:
OP would you rather have to fight Biohazard and freezer burn MODOK? Or aspect of war mercy Sabertooth.

Bruh, there were actually fights like that? Wtf

TheTalents · December 2020

It's just not profitable for Kabam to have the acts be anywhere near as hard as act 6 was. People are still saying act 6 was difficult post nerf. I actually really enjoyed act 7. I just don't think that getting hit 3 times with 45k health and instantly dying is fun which is the only thing that would be a challenge to the top 20 alliance guys.

I had people in my alliance explore everything and use less than 5 revives total. Unfortunately there is no middle ground.

Aziz5253 · December 2020

Lormif said:

ThunderGod said:

Lormif said:

ThunderGod said:
Hypothetically if there ever an option for people who want ultra hard story content to opt for it in game and for those that want the current version to opt for their own version of story content with same rewards,
I can almost near guarantee none of these folks ( who're crying about the difficulty being less on forums ) would choose to do the ultra hard content 😎😎
It depends on how it was structured. If the rewards were the same for both no, because while we like a challenge we are also people who believe the rewards should match the effort.

However if it was setup so that you could do both but only got the rewards once then we would probably do both, just the easier for the rewards. If you could only do one, but the rewards were scaled if you did the harder mode probably every one of us would do the harder one.

Evidence, variants.
Agreed

But the major takeaway has to be that you're basically saying hard content exists in game in form of variants, which we have another one coming in a week I think, then why is there a problem with story content being a little vanilla for you're taste?
You have 6 pieces of content to suit your style of enjoyment.🤔

Logical thing would be to let one part be tough and one not so tough so that all can enjoy their own little piece of the battle realm right? 🤗🤗

Makes sense to me, separate hardcore sweaty boys and girls with variants. 🤞🤞
No, I am not saying any such thing. Variants are not hard, however they have 2 difficulty modes, an easy, classic mode and a more difficult variant mode. I never do the classic mode and only do the variant mode.

Also no that would cause even more problems, because the harder mode would have better rewards, and that would cause the exact same situation as now. The issue has always been about the people not ablle to do the content wanting the rewards for the harder content without doing harder content.

If what you said was true, variant 1 would've been nerfed long ago

Act 7 - Where do we go from here?

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