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Can I ask if anyone complaining has actually seen this buff / nerf? No.
Yes.. his losing fate seal.. I understand that.. there's a reason they've removed it. How can you complain before you've seen something. Wait until the buff comes out. Then kick and scream about it.
But hey, go ahead and keep pushing that disagree button to anyone who actually wants to see the buff before judging it. If it's a s*** buff, I'll be on here complaining.. until then. I want to see him before I pass judgement.
11 dislikes is my record so far.. bring it on boys, I'm waiting..
You are getting disagrees because you missed the point that is everyone is complaining that they are changing the core utility of the champ for which people ranked him up. Don't be melodramatic, you are getting disagrees because you are posting without understanding what exactly people are even arguing about here.
Like I said.. I get everyone is crying about fate seal being removed..
No, you don't. You think this is about whether Hood got better or not. That's completely irrelevant. I'm assuming for the sake of argument Hood did get better overall. Hood2.0 is probably better for me. If the question is "did Hood get better" then people should test Hood and see for themselves in actual play before making that overall judgment. But that's not what the core complaint is. There's two things being stated: one: that for specific use cases Hood got worse (which is trivial to determine by what was removed) and two: the devs shouldn't remove core use cases that are sufficiently strong or valuable from a champion that is otherwise underperforming, and should expand the use cases for underperforming champions rather than remove use cases just to add others.
For me there's only two possibilities. One: Hood did not get better overall, and the existing Hood players were harmed for no reason. Two: Hood did get better overall, and the existing Hood players were harmed for the wrong reason. And the second possibility is even worse than the first one, because in the latter case the devs will be encouraged to do it again. Failure might give them pause. "Success" means they've forgotten what they were supposed to be doing in the first place.
The devs are supposed to be encouraging players to look for unpopular or uncommon use cases among a diverse set of champions so players don't think they need to wait for the top tier champs from random champion crystals. Instead they are signalling directly that uncommon and unconventional use cases don't matter, and investing in them is stupid because they have no problem with throwing them away. Ironically, the devs are saying we'll protect Doom because he's great, we won't protect Hood because not enough people care about Hood, and those people who invested in Hood were stupid to do so, they should have waited for Doom.
That's almost certainly not their intent, which makes the Hood changes all the more tragic, because there's no question that's the signal they are sending. They can't even deny that's the signal they are sending, because their actions override their statements in this case.
I'm 90% certain we're going to lose the fight for Hood. But the fight is worth fighting to prevent the next Hood. Game devs rarely reverse development work once it goes live. They may tweak it, but (AND THIS IS A GREAT IRONY) they don't like losing the investment in that work. The way to stop changes like the Hood update from happening in the future is to convince the devs to lose the mindset that made the Hood change palatable in the first place, so they never even attempt this kind of update ever again. Once it gets off the whiteboard and into the code, the developer investment rises and our ability to change it drops dramatically.
Can I ask if anyone complaining has actually seen this buff / nerf? No.
Yes.. his losing fate seal.. I understand that.. there's a reason they've removed it. How can you complain before you've seen something. Wait until the buff comes out. Then kick and scream about it.
But hey, go ahead and keep pushing that disagree button to anyone who actually wants to see the buff before judging it. If it's a s*** buff, I'll be on here complaining.. until then. I want to see him before I pass judgement.
11 dislikes is my record so far.. bring it on boys, I'm waiting..
You are getting disagrees because you missed the point that is everyone is complaining that they are changing the core utility of the champ for which people ranked him up. Don't be melodramatic, you are getting disagrees because you are posting without understanding what exactly people are even arguing about here.
Like I said.. I get everyone is crying about fate seal being removed..
No, you don't. You think this is about whether Hood got better or not. That's completely irrelevant. I'm assuming for the sake of argument Hood did get better overall. Hood2.0 is probably better for me. If the question is "did Hood get better" then people should test Hood and see for themselves in actual play before making that overall judgment. But that's not what the core complaint is. There's two things being stated: one: that for specific use cases Hood got worse (which is trivial to determine by what was removed) and two: the devs shouldn't remove core use cases that are sufficiently strong or valuable from a champion that is otherwise underperforming, and should expand the use cases for underperforming champions rather than remove use cases just to add others.
For me there's only two possibilities. One: Hood did not get better overall, and the existing Hood players were harmed for no reason. Two: Hood did get better overall, and the existing Hood players were harmed for the wrong reason. And the second possibility is even worse than the first one, because in the latter case the devs will be encouraged to do it again. Failure might give them pause. "Success" means they've forgotten what they were supposed to be doing in the first place.
The devs are supposed to be encouraging players to look for unpopular or uncommon use cases among a diverse set of champions so players don't think they need to wait for the top tier champs from random champion crystals. Instead they are signalling directly that uncommon and unconventional use cases don't matter, and investing in them is stupid because they have no problem with throwing them away. Ironically, the devs are saying we'll protect Doom because he's great, we won't protect Hood because not enough people care about Hood, and those people who invested in Hood were stupid to do so, they should have waited for Doom.
That's almost certainly not their intent, which makes the Hood changes all the more tragic, because there's no question that's the signal they are sending. They can't even deny that's the signal they are sending, because their actions override their statements in this case.
I'm 90% certain we're going to lose the fight for Hood. But the fight is worth fighting to prevent the next Hood. Game devs rarely reverse development work once it goes live. They may tweak it, but (AND THIS IS A GREAT IRONY) they don't like losing the investment in that work. The way to stop changes like the Hood update from happening in the future is to convince the devs to lose the mindset that made the Hood change palatable in the first place, so they never even attempt this kind of update ever again. Once it gets off the whiteboard and into the code, the developer investment rises and our ability to change it drops dramatically.
This deserve more than one like. Thats the core of this whole thread @Kabam Miike , plz send that post straight to the team right now.
Why are you so worried about the hood, you'd better worry about those champions who have 1-2 lines in their abilities which people use once a year, especially since this is their game, they will do anything they want
You mean like Ronan? Ok maybe it’s more like 4+ quests a year but those 4 times I bring him out he does a damn good job. Now let’s imagine that Kabam remove his stun lock but let him have a huge burst damage on SP2? That would mean I’d stop using him for what I’d originally use him for and likely wouldn’t bother using him at all because. That’s. Not. Why. I. Ranked. him. Up. Why is it so hard to grasp that people want their champions utility kept intact.
In this case, then they will not buff anyone at all and leave everything as it is and everyone will be happy
Maybe, but if I can devise ways to update champions like Hood that preserve their core functionality and boost their weaknesses, I think it is reasonable to expect professionals paid to do it to be at least as good as I am at it.
Also, I'm pretty sure the devs know how to make a champion have strong staggers, buff nullify, and relatively strong damage in a way they think is balanced**. He's called Mangog. I'm not a conspiratorial thinker, but it is an interesting coincidence that at the same time they were removing nullify from Hood because stagger + nullify would be too strong, they were making a new champ with stagger + nullify. A conspiratorial person might think they reduced Hood's buff control to prevent him from overshadowing a new champ.
** That's how the devs describe Mangog. For example, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IqOWRz3SFU. We don't know if any of those statements is true, but what's important is the devs believe them to be true, so they believe Mangog has strong stagger and strong damage, and they gave him a nullify in SP3. So the devs believe these three capabilities can coexist in a balanced champ, and the only question is tweaking their relative strengths.
yeo that i absolutely agree! hood feels like completely diffrent champ! who ever ranked him for his previous utilities deserves something atleast. i m planning to rank him up due to i run ouchi masteries and i want to rank up king pin to r3 6*
He's still ruined. He can't be used in what people ranked him up for pre-nerf.
If someone has never really invested in Hood, the new Hood appears to be better for them. I don't see any evidence so far that the specific complaints about specific use cases somehow magically didn't happen: he will be less useful for some of the use cases he was specifically good at before.
The people who like Hood now have to decide if it was worth taking Hood1.0 away from the players who liked him just to get a Hood2.0 they personally like better.
He's still ruined. He can't be used in what people ranked him up for pre-nerf.
If someone has never really invested in Hood, the new Hood appears to be better for them. I don't see any evidence so far that the specific complaints about specific use cases somehow magically didn't happen: he will be less useful for some of the use cases he was specifically good at before.
The people who like Hood now have to decide if it was worth taking Hood1.0 away from the players who liked him just to get a Hood2.0 they personally like better.
Comparison videos of a maxed out 3* Hood vs. Aarkus duel.
I'm running full suicides with no MD for these fights. Used similar play styles for both videos. Didn't make any extra effort to go invisible, only used Sp2 and didn't throw any heavies. I pretty much played Aarkus like he's stun immune (since he sort of is) and just fought a regular fight without thinking too hard about a specific strategy.
Same number of hits. Second fight is 40 seconds longer since I had to spend way more time baiting specials because I could no longer remove his power gain with a hex and the staggers couldn't keep up.
Comparison videos of a maxed out 3* Hood vs. Aarkus duel.
I'm running full suicides with no MD for these fights. Used similar play styles for both videos. Didn't make any extra effort to go invisible, only used Sp2 and didn't throw any heavies. I pretty much played Aarkus like he's stun immune (since he sort of is) and just fought a regular fight without thinking too hard about a specific strategy.
Same number of hits. Second fight is 40 seconds longer since I had to spend way more time baiting specials because I could no longer remove his power gain with a hex and the staggers couldn't keep up.
Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?
Of course they would be. Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed. This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions
I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there
Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework
You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.
That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.
Kind of lost me on GR. He's still a dependable utility Champ.
Be a shame if they were to change his heavy and SP3 judgement in a rework just for more damage wouldn’t it...
But then again if they did that you’d instantly change your stance on the matter
I'm sorry, but how do you get that? First off, have I taken a stance on Hood? No. I was talking about the idea that you can only add things to rework Champs. I said I was waiting to see game play to make a judgment. Secondly, I said he (GR) was still a dependable Utility option.
Well, I tried him in real fights (6.4.2, medusa path - enemy gets evade and unstoppable buffs on sps, you get reduced crit rate when evaded). With shorter staggers you can't really spam refreshing them for regen, but the bad part is you can't reliably apply staggers, and opponents triggered buffs a lot. Without nulifies on sp2 you can forget about him as a reliable buff control champ. That holding block is still too long. I'd wish they changed it into double dash back maybe, like on no retreat node. As it is, his regen not even bugged imo, without it he'd take too much damage from block alone. As for his damage, it's not very impressive. 160-180 hits for r2 6* vs rol ws (used to be ~280). You also can't reliably fully phase his sp2. Still not even close to top damage champs like cgr or domino. His bullets mechanics... well, it only encourages you too phase more (keep in mind how unreliable his invisibility is after couple of hit's), but overall it's not very noticable. His sp1 and sp3 are even more useless then they used to be. I mean, before the buff you could've use sp1 just so stagger works trigger on buff and you get some heal. You could've use sp3 and power steal from stunned opponent after it almost reliably. Now the is no reason to use them, you only want to spam sp2 for damage.
Summing up, his damage got increased, if you play aggressively enough. But he lost most of his utility and became actually easier to play. More boring as well imo. I would definitely prefer hood before that so called buff, wich is more of a nerf. If he stays as he is atm, I'd ask for a rank down ticket. I rarely used hood lately, as I have symb and BWCV, both are better for must of the content. Except some fights like anihilus, where hood was better. I wouldn't use him for anything now, as his damage got closer to top mystics, but not close enough, but he became a lot worse for hardcore buff control, wich I used him for occasionally.
Comparison videos of a maxed out 3* Hood vs. Aarkus duel.
I'm running full suicides with no MD for these fights. Used similar play styles for both videos. Didn't make any extra effort to go invisible, only used Sp2 and didn't throw any heavies. I pretty much played Aarkus like he's stun immune (since he sort of is) and just fought a regular fight without thinking too hard about a specific strategy.
Same number of hits. Second fight is 40 seconds longer since I had to spend way more time baiting specials because I could no longer remove his power gain with a hex and the staggers couldn't keep up.
His life steal seems to be bugged
If it is, then I think my hood will never see R5. The regen is great and make up for the staggers imo. Taking that away would make him less suicide friendly and a lot less sustainable.
Wow! Just wow! 511 per crit almost! It’s crazy good! Thanks Kabam l!
If it’s not bugged I’ll R5 my hood today. No joke. Great with suicides and sustainable.
Should not be bugged , his description reads that every time a stagger expires, he doesn’t refresh his staggers any more he re applies them which I think is causing that interaction. It’s wonderful
Why are you so worried about the hood, you'd better worry about those champions who have 1-2 lines in their abilities which people use once a year, especially since this is their game, they will do anything they want
You mean like Ronan? Ok maybe it’s more like 4+ quests a year but those 4 times I bring him out he does a damn good job. Now let’s imagine that Kabam remove his stun lock but let him have a huge burst damage on SP2? That would mean I’d stop using him for what I’d originally use him for and likely wouldn’t bother using him at all because. That’s. Not. Why. I. Ranked. him. Up. Why is it so hard to grasp that people want their champions utility kept intact.
In this case, then they will not buff anyone at all and leave everything as it is and everyone will be happy
Maybe, but if I can devise ways to update champions like Hood that preserve their core functionality and boost their weaknesses, I think it is reasonable to expect professionals paid to do it to be at least as good as I am at it.
Also, I'm pretty sure the devs know how to make a champion have strong staggers, buff nullify, and relatively strong damage in a way they think is balanced**. He's called Mangog. I'm not a conspiratorial thinker, but it is an interesting coincidence that at the same time they were removing nullify from Hood because stagger + nullify would be too strong, they were making a new champ with stagger + nullify. A conspiratorial person might think they reduced Hood's buff control to prevent him from overshadowing a new champ.
** That's how the devs describe Mangog. For example, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IqOWRz3SFU. We don't know if any of those statements is true, but what's important is the devs believe them to be true, so they believe Mangog has strong stagger and strong damage, and they gave him a nullify in SP3. So the devs believe these three capabilities can coexist in a balanced champ, and the only question is tweaking their relative strengths.
It’s not conspiratorial at all. They did that because they knew Mangog was on the way. If Hood was improved and kept his utility they wouldn’t sell as many Mangog crystals. Now those who spend and have a gap in their roster that Hood filled will really want Mangog. It’s business.
So, you think it works like
kabam: nerfs hood players who used hood: take my money! I want a new champ who will be nerfed a little later just like that!
345 for each expired Stagger, not per Critical Hit.
For low buff opponents, you only heal when your stagger times out after 5 seconds (they don't stack). Then you have to Crit again and wait again. My 5/65 164 Hood has a Crit rate of 23.9% ( = lousy Crit rate)
Critical Hits
100% chance to inflict a non-stacking Stagger Passive lasting 5 seconds. When a Staggered opponent gains a Buff, that Buff and all Buffs triggered at the same time are Nullified. When this Stagger ends, it inflicts 345.15 direct damage on the opponent and heals The Hood for a matching amount.
Comments
- so improvement on some departments for sure, good sustainability, cool burst damage! overal not bad
For me there's only two possibilities. One: Hood did not get better overall, and the existing Hood players were harmed for no reason. Two: Hood did get better overall, and the existing Hood players were harmed for the wrong reason. And the second possibility is even worse than the first one, because in the latter case the devs will be encouraged to do it again. Failure might give them pause. "Success" means they've forgotten what they were supposed to be doing in the first place.
The devs are supposed to be encouraging players to look for unpopular or uncommon use cases among a diverse set of champions so players don't think they need to wait for the top tier champs from random champion crystals. Instead they are signalling directly that uncommon and unconventional use cases don't matter, and investing in them is stupid because they have no problem with throwing them away. Ironically, the devs are saying we'll protect Doom because he's great, we won't protect Hood because not enough people care about Hood, and those people who invested in Hood were stupid to do so, they should have waited for Doom.
That's almost certainly not their intent, which makes the Hood changes all the more tragic, because there's no question that's the signal they are sending. They can't even deny that's the signal they are sending, because their actions override their statements in this case.
I'm 90% certain we're going to lose the fight for Hood. But the fight is worth fighting to prevent the next Hood. Game devs rarely reverse development work once it goes live. They may tweak it, but (AND THIS IS A GREAT IRONY) they don't like losing the investment in that work. The way to stop changes like the Hood update from happening in the future is to convince the devs to lose the mindset that made the Hood change palatable in the first place, so they never even attempt this kind of update ever again. Once it gets off the whiteboard and into the code, the developer investment rises and our ability to change it drops dramatically.
He can't be used in what people ranked him up for pre-nerf.
Also, I'm pretty sure the devs know how to make a champion have strong staggers, buff nullify, and relatively strong damage in a way they think is balanced**. He's called Mangog. I'm not a conspiratorial thinker, but it is an interesting coincidence that at the same time they were removing nullify from Hood because stagger + nullify would be too strong, they were making a new champ with stagger + nullify. A conspiratorial person might think they reduced Hood's buff control to prevent him from overshadowing a new champ.
** That's how the devs describe Mangog. For example, see:
We don't know if any of those statements is true, but what's important is the devs believe them to be true, so they believe Mangog has strong stagger and strong damage, and they gave him a nullify in SP3. So the devs believe these three capabilities can coexist in a balanced champ, and the only question is tweaking their relative strengths.
The people who like Hood now have to decide if it was worth taking Hood1.0 away from the players who liked him just to get a Hood2.0 they personally like better.
Secondly, I said he (GR) was still a dependable Utility option.
That holding block is still too long. I'd wish they changed it into double dash back maybe, like on no retreat node. As it is, his regen not even bugged imo, without it he'd take too much damage from block alone.
As for his damage, it's not very impressive. 160-180 hits for r2 6* vs rol ws (used to be ~280). You also can't reliably fully phase his sp2. Still not even close to top damage champs like cgr or domino.
His bullets mechanics... well, it only encourages you too phase more (keep in mind how unreliable his invisibility is after couple of hit's), but overall it's not very noticable.
His sp1 and sp3 are even more useless then they used to be. I mean, before the buff you could've use sp1 just so stagger works trigger on buff and you get some heal. You could've use sp3 and power steal from stunned opponent after it almost reliably. Now the is no reason to use them, you only want to spam sp2 for damage.
Summing up, his damage got increased, if you play aggressively enough. But he lost most of his utility and became actually easier to play. More boring as well imo. I would definitely prefer hood before that so called buff, wich is more of a nerf. If he stays as he is atm, I'd ask for a rank down ticket. I rarely used hood lately, as I have symb and BWCV, both are better for must of the content. Except some fights like anihilus, where hood was better. I wouldn't use him for anything now, as his damage got closer to top mystics, but not close enough, but he became a lot worse for hardcore buff control, wich I used him for occasionally.
kabam: nerfs hood
players who used hood: take my money! I want a new champ who will be nerfed a little later just like that!
Rly?
For low buff opponents, you only heal when your stagger times out after 5 seconds (they don't stack).
Then you have to Crit again and wait again.
My 5/65 164 Hood has a Crit rate of 23.9% ( = lousy Crit rate)
Critical Hits
100% chance to inflict a non-stacking Stagger Passive lasting 5 seconds. When a Staggered opponent gains a Buff, that Buff and all Buffs triggered at the same time are Nullified.
When this Stagger ends, it inflicts 345.15 direct damage on the opponent and heals The Hood for a matching amount.