You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
Yes, Hype is better, but CGR is still a god. He is the highest dealing champ in the game WITHOUT synergies, and his awakened ability is pretty helpful. He counters Mysterio and Ghost at the start of the fight without doing anything, and has easy access to massive armor breaks and many other buffs. So no he’s not overrated, and sure he might have a little less utility but it’s still more than a lot of champions and he makes up for it with his damage.
I have to disagree with him having more utility than a lot of other champs, unless you’re just looking at the meme tiers. Mangog, who I admit is significantly worse, has about 10x more utility than CGR. Same applies to dormammu etc. Double immunity and armour break is all he really has. His fate seal is stupidly situational, to the point where it’s only really useful for his rotation and not utility.
He actually has yet to impress me from a utility standpoint in any content that’s actually difficult, and he was released 10 months ago.
You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
@walkerdog What work to 5hit do you have to go through? what do you mean? Do you mean parry, LLMLM? That’s not effort , that’s a work around to counter content. It’s a different way to play to counter nodes
How does Hyperion counter tunnel vision?
Again, “effort” to use a champion does not take anything away from how good they are. Would you agree that quake is the best champion in the game? Because she takes effort to use.
So are you saying that because Hyperion can deal with evade by having a special ready, and because you don’t want to 5 hit combo with CGR, that’s enough to mean he’s the best cosmic?
What actual points are there that you have, for why Hyperion is better than CGR
Looks like Herc hype is real. No pun intended. I would definitely be interested if I ever get a 5/6 herc. I really don't care till I own newly released champs, Why bother with the things I don't have. Gonna invest on the 4* and do some testing now. This thread have me intrigued.
Here’s my moment for disagrees. Hyperion is only considered the best cosmic for the nostalgia factor. If you released Hyperion and any of Herc, CGR or Corvus in the same month today, I really believe you would not consider Hyperion the best champion.
In the past he could do so much that we required him to do, we weren’t as good at intercepting so his power gain was great, we needed damage so that was great, his secondary source of damage from sp1 was nice. But nowadays he simply doesn’t cut it. We can intercept better and play more reliably without the need for specials to intercept, we have more damage, we have other ways to get secondary damage.
He’s awesome, and it’s a testament to how good he is that he’s still in the conversation at all. But he is not as good as Cosmic champions who came after him, and people are hanging on to the notion that Hyp is the best based on using him to get through act 4, 5 and 6 in the day. We have better champs now
I think hes pretty easily the best bc the other contenders have to do a few things to be on even ground. CG can't touch him without the combination of a higher rarity and suicides, Cgr is close but struggles when he can't 5hit combos or has to deal with AAR, and Herc needs suicides it seems like. Hes early enough that I won't say for certain that hes not better, but there's a pretty good reason hype and quake probably won't get a 6* anytime soon. Maybe that's just kabam being overly cautious but...
Why are you saying that without higher rarity/suicides CGR isn't better? Because that seems like you're implying without the extra attack from higher rank and suicides, CGR isn't better than Hyp? He has the same utility as a 6* rank 3, so unless you're saying that CGR's damage isn't enough then I don't think you've got much of a point there. And I'm not sure I've ever seen someone say CGR's damage isn't enough.
Regarding needing 5 hit combos, I'm not actually sure what you're referring to. Do you mean this? https://youtu.be/WhvhPCBwX6w I'm sure you don't mean miss, since every miss (to my knowledge except stun immune tunnel vision, a rather niche combination) in the game can be gotten around with a 5 hit combo. Professor X, G2099, Stryfe, Darkhawk, SuperSkrull etc. Regarding nodes, tunnel vision is shown above, Missing in action (any time defender buff ends there's a timer then falter), if you'd like to point out more miss nodes or champions I'd be happy to explain how CGR can deal with them.
Or perhaps you're referring to evade, since it could screw him up. But I know you wouldn't be using that as your point, it's not like Hyperion is an evade counter. Using Evade as your reason Hyp is better would be pretty weak.
Maybe you mean Autoblock, could be annoying there. Except when you consider it, 4 of the 8 auto blockers need buffs or armour to do so, and CGR is very proficient at countering them. Nova, Heimdall, Medusa, IMIW. CGR handles them all easily. You're left with Darkhawk (easy to handle, push to sp2 and use vigilance buff to counter/don't knock down except when necessary), MODOK (bad match up admittedly), overseer (we haven't seen enough of him yet to form an accurate opinion on defence) and Thor Rags (no counter needed). So of the 8 autoblock champions, CGR hard counters 4, can deal with 2, 1 is undetermined and 1 is a bad matchup. Regardless, I don't think you mean autoblock, since CGR can deal with it better than Hyperion, who can't deal with Nova, Heimdall, Medusa or MODOK, and not as well for IMIW, with 1 armour break per SP2, and CGR gets more armour breaks, more often.
So how exactly, can CGR's combo be interrupted in a meaningful scenario
Since you say Hype not being released as a 6* is proof that he's "too good", I wonder if you'd make the same case for Blade, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Dr Voodoo, Magik and Scarlet Witch? Are they all too good to be released as 6*? Cause it seems like you're using one fact to suit your opinion, rather than using the full picture to form your opinion.
The other ones that haven't been 6* all have enormormous healing capability or were the two best/most broken mystics for a long time that they haven't gotten around to releasing as 6*.
Oh wait I forgot hype has a nice heal, maybe thats just it.
Also I do not have any interest in going thru all that work to 5hit with cgr. I do understand that for you those challenges are fun, but thats a lot more effort than id want to go thru for those fights. Hype doesn't counter evade but barring the last hit of heavies, he can do evade fights with sp1 as backup for when they evade just fine.
I like my cgr a lot but I still use hype more im pretty sure. Its certainly good that we have more contenders for top cosmic than "hype or CG with suicides" like before CGR and Herc came out.
What “work to 5hit” what do you mean? How does Hyperion counter tunnel vision?
Again, “effort” to use a champion does not take anything away from how good they are. Would you agree that quake is the best champion in the game? Because she takes effort to use.
So are you saying that because Hyperion can deal with evade by having a special ready, and because you don’t want to 5 hit combo with CGR, that’s enough to mean he’s the best cosmic?
What actual points are there that you have, for why Hyperion is better than CGR
You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
Yes, Hype is better, but CGR is still a god. He is the highest dealing champ in the game WITHOUT synergies, and his awakened ability is pretty helpful. He counters Mysterio and Ghost at the start of the fight without doing anything, and has easy access to massive armor breaks and many other buffs. So no he’s not overrated, and sure he might have a little less utility but it’s still more than a lot of champions and he makes up for it with his damage.
I have to disagree with him having more utility than a lot of other champs, unless you’re just looking at the meme tiers. Mangog, who I admit is significantly worse, has about 10x more utility than CGR. Same applies to dormammu etc. Double immunity and armour break is all he really has. His fate seal is stupidly situational, to the point where it’s only really useful for his rotation and not utility.
He actually has yet to impress me from a utility standpoint in any content that’s actually difficult, and he was released 10 months ago.
He has better buff control than about half the mystics in the game, while getting round nodes like Mystic ward. I regularly use CGR for buff control match ups. Here's a couple of examples showing off how good his buff control is
Removing all venom's buffs, including the annoying crit resist buff, attack, crit, armour etc. You take this fight any other place than the one piece of content in the game that has increased ability accuracy so he can stun lock, Hyp is not useful for a fight like this.
BPCW in the gauntlet, he's unblockable with armour up, footloose, armour buffs, arc overload. Boy I wish there was a champ who could control those buffs. I used him for a hell of a lot of my gauntlet fights, including harder ones like Void and Killmonger.
SoP Adaptoid, almost every part of CGR's damage is taken away from him here with no armour break and no Sp3, but he can still manage it, because he has utility. Using the right rotation meant that Adaptoid triggered 4 Unstoppables in the match up.
So, we've established he has buff control. What else?
He can apply his fateseal, power lock and heal block every 2 combos, and more if you time it right. He can deal with healing, with the combination of the heal block and despair, I don't think Hyp can do that.
Similar to Doom cycle, though clearly not as powerful, you can cycle Sp3, MLLLL, MLLLM and time the second combo so that your judgements reset in the middle of it, meaning you can get a power lock cycle where the opponent will only gain power on 1 or 2 hits. But he has no utility right?
He has more block proficiency than Doom, but that's not a bonus is it, we love block damage. He has energy mediums for Korgs, incinerate immunity, bleed immunity, vigilance to deal with all miss in the game except basically stun immune tunnel vision, fantastic autoblock counter for the 4 autoblock champs that need buffs, and IMIW who needs armour (leaving only darkhawk, which he can counter anyway with miss, thor rags who you can just not intercept, and Overseer and MODOK who are probably not favourable matchups)
He also has permanent armour break against villains like Mysterio and KM, constant armour break for IMIW and Guardian, DOT from his Sp1 and it's an incinerate for stuff like stun reflection and selective time stream, pretty beefy armour up buff if you get hit during his judgement's resetting - it really reduces damage taken as a little safety net, he also has inbuilt buff duration increase which applies to other buffs and nodes - if you trigger the heimdall unstoppable/indestructable at the end of your judgements you can get a 6 second duration. Same goes for Icarus, fight or flight, heal or hide etc. Lastly, unblockable Sp1 is really nice for getting openings if your opponent is being less aggressive, or if you need to apply DOT, or use judgements urgently.
All of this, without mentioning his insane damage once. Which can be used as a utility to finish fights fast before they get hard. If you're counting who is more useful as who is the best cosmic champion, CGR can be used for fights like Champion 6.2 or Gauntlet void simply because of his crazy damage. He finishes the fight before it gets too much, and before you have a chance to die. That adds to his uses.
Now I'm not expecting you to change your mind, but it would be vindicating for me, if you look at this breakdown of his utility, and seriously say, without a hint of irony, what utility? It would show me you're so set on seeing CGR as just big yellow numbers, and utterly ignore the uses he can bring to the contest.
Here’s my moment for disagrees. Hyperion is only considered the best cosmic for the nostalgia factor. If you released Hyperion and any of Herc, CGR or Corvus in the same month today, I really believe you would not consider Hyperion the best champion.
In the past he could do so much that we required him to do, we weren’t as good at intercepting so his power gain was great, we needed damage so that was great, his secondary source of damage from sp1 was nice. But nowadays he simply doesn’t cut it. We can intercept better and play more reliably without the need for specials to intercept, we have more damage, we have other ways to get secondary damage.
He’s awesome, and it’s a testament to how good he is that he’s still in the conversation at all. But he is not as good as Cosmic champions who came after him, and people are hanging on to the notion that Hyp is the best based on using him to get through act 4, 5 and 6 in the day. We have better champs now
I think hes pretty easily the best bc the other contenders have to do a few things to be on even ground. CG can't touch him without the combination of a higher rarity and suicides, Cgr is close but struggles when he can't 5hit combos or has to deal with AAR, and Herc needs suicides it seems like. Hes early enough that I won't say for certain that hes not better, but there's a pretty good reason hype and quake probably won't get a 6* anytime soon. Maybe that's just kabam being overly cautious but...
Why are you saying that without higher rarity/suicides CGR isn't better? Because that seems like you're implying without the extra attack from higher rank and suicides, CGR isn't better than Hyp? He has the same utility as a 6* rank 3, so unless you're saying that CGR's damage isn't enough then I don't think you've got much of a point there. And I'm not sure I've ever seen someone say CGR's damage isn't enough.
Regarding needing 5 hit combos, I'm not actually sure what you're referring to. Do you mean this? https://youtu.be/WhvhPCBwX6w I'm sure you don't mean miss, since every miss (to my knowledge except stun immune tunnel vision, a rather niche combination) in the game can be gotten around with a 5 hit combo. Professor X, G2099, Stryfe, Darkhawk, SuperSkrull etc. Regarding nodes, tunnel vision is shown above, Missing in action (any time defender buff ends there's a timer then falter), if you'd like to point out more miss nodes or champions I'd be happy to explain how CGR can deal with them.
Or perhaps you're referring to evade, since it could screw him up. But I know you wouldn't be using that as your point, it's not like Hyperion is an evade counter. Using Evade as your reason Hyp is better would be pretty weak.
Maybe you mean Autoblock, could be annoying there. Except when you consider it, 4 of the 8 auto blockers need buffs or armour to do so, and CGR is very proficient at countering them. Nova, Heimdall, Medusa, IMIW. CGR handles them all easily. You're left with Darkhawk (easy to handle, push to sp2 and use vigilance buff to counter/don't knock down except when necessary), MODOK (bad match up admittedly), overseer (we haven't seen enough of him yet to form an accurate opinion on defence) and Thor Rags (no counter needed). So of the 8 autoblock champions, CGR hard counters 4, can deal with 2, 1 is undetermined and 1 is a bad matchup. Regardless, I don't think you mean autoblock, since CGR can deal with it better than Hyperion, who can't deal with Nova, Heimdall, Medusa or MODOK, and not as well for IMIW, with 1 armour break per SP2, and CGR gets more armour breaks, more often.
So how exactly, can CGR's combo be interrupted in a meaningful scenario
Since you say Hype not being released as a 6* is proof that he's "too good", I wonder if you'd make the same case for Blade, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Dr Voodoo, Magik and Scarlet Witch? Are they all too good to be released as 6*? Cause it seems like you're using one fact to suit your opinion, rather than using the full picture to form your opinion.
The other ones that haven't been 6* all have enormormous healing capability or were the two best/most broken mystics for a long time that they haven't gotten around to releasing as 6*.
Oh wait I forgot hype has a nice heal, maybe thats just it.
Also I do not have any interest in going thru all that work to 5hit with cgr. I do understand that for you those challenges are fun, but thats a lot more effort than id want to go thru for those fights. Hype doesn't counter evade but barring the last hit of heavies, he can do evade fights with sp1 as backup for when they evade just fine.
I like my cgr a lot but I still use hype more im pretty sure. Its certainly good that we have more contenders for top cosmic than "hype or CG with suicides" like
@walkerdog What work to 5hit do you have to go through? what do you mean? Do you mean parry, LLMLM? That’s not effort , that’s a work around to counter content. It’s a different way to play to counter nodes
How does Hyperion counter tunnel vision?
Again, “effort” to use a champion does not take anything away from how good they are. Would you agree that quake is the best champion in the game? Because she takes effort to use.
So are you saying that because Hyperion can deal with evade by having a special ready, and because you don’t want to 5 hit combo with CGR, that’s enough to mean he’s the best cosmic?
What actual points are there that you have, for why Hyperion is better than CGR
Passive power gain, a heal, and similar damage.
Hyperion's power gain is through a buff and no way their damage is similar.
And there it is, that's all it comes down to. If that's enough to make a top champion compared to the proven large amount of utility CGR has, the immense damage (not similar damage), then that explains why some of the community is stuck on Hyperion being the best.
Hyperion is an oldtimer and still stands today. That makes him the best cosmic imo.
I think that's a fair point to say he's still an amazing champion, and it's a testament to his abilities that they're still useful today, but just because he's still good today doesn't give any inherent value to what he brings to the table in the current game.
When you look at a champion objectively, you can't use the factor of time in how good they are now. Why do you think, objectively speaking, Hyperion's abilities are better than CGR
It's true that certain nodes he can counter (safeguard, aegis) are older, but same is true for newer nodes (like special delivery or other nodes that require special attacks to reset). CGR requires a full cycle to get access to his power gain and a 5-hit combo. Hyperion needs neither.
Hyperion is an oldtimer and still stands today. That makes him the best cosmic imo.
I think that's a fair point to say he's still an amazing champion, and it's a testament to his abilities that they're still useful today, but just because he's still good today doesn't give any inherent value to what he brings to the table in the current game.
When you look at a champion objectively, you can't use the factor of time in how good they are now. Why do you think, objectively speaking, Hyperion's abilities are better than CGR
It's true that certain nodes he can counter (safeguard, aegis) are older, but same is true for newer nodes (like special delivery or other nodes that require special attacks to reset). CGR requires a full cycle to get access to his power gain and a 5-hit combo. Hyperion needs neither.
Yep, fair point. I just feel like how often in content with CGR do you come across a fight and think, oh damn I wish I had more specials available. I mean speaking personally, I use CGR all over and it’s never once caused a death, or made me rethink using him. I just don’t think having the power gain Hyperion has is as useful today compared to other abilities cosmic champions have.
Yes it’s still just as useful for those nodes, and yes it is better than CGRs power gain. But I don’t think it’s enough to justify him being the top cosmic. That’s one small drop in an ocean of uses that CGR has
Here’s my moment for disagrees. Hyperion is only considered the best cosmic for the nostalgia factor. If you released Hyperion and any of Herc, CGR or Corvus in the same month today, I really believe you would not consider Hyperion the best champion.
In the past he could do so much that we required him to do, we weren’t as good at intercepting so his power gain was great, we needed damage so that was great, his secondary source of damage from sp1 was nice. But nowadays he simply doesn’t cut it. We can intercept better and play more reliably without the need for specials to intercept, we have more damage, we have other ways to get secondary damage.
He’s awesome, and it’s a testament to how good he is that he’s still in the conversation at all. But he is not as good as Cosmic champions who came after him, and people are hanging on to the notion that Hyp is the best based on using him to get through act 4, 5 and 6 in the day. We have better champs now
While I do believe nostalgia plays a role in how often Hyperion gets voted I don't see it being the main/only reason.
If he was released today I'd probably still rate him as highly considering I didn't get him early enough for nostalgia to come into play. An argument can easily be made for corvus and Hercules if I ran suicides but I wouldn't hesitate putting him above CGR.
Yes the need for special intercepts has gone down with player improvement and act 6 attack values taking a nosedive but there are still plenty of places it's useful
We have higher damaging champs now but Hyperions damage is nowhere near lacking to the point where he doesn't cut it.
There are more sources of secondary damage in general but none of the champs being compared here have dot as easily accessible and potent.
It's not going to matter much longer anyways since 6 stars are the future and Hyperion hasn't been added to the pool but for now he still gets my vote
CGR's sp1 incinerate isn't bad at all and usually unblockable.. one trait he shares with hyperion is access to DOT on sp1 (oh and armor break on sp2). He also has double immunities and power control awakened. He even has the power gain (which unfortunately requires a full 5 hit combo which can be nerfed by things like mix master).
Here’s my moment for disagrees. Hyperion is only considered the best cosmic for the nostalgia factor. If you released Hyperion and any of Herc, CGR or Corvus in the same month today, I really believe you would not consider Hyperion the best champion.
In the past he could do so much that we required him to do, we weren’t as good at intercepting so his power gain was great, we needed damage so that was great, his secondary source of damage from sp1 was nice. But nowadays he simply doesn’t cut it. We can intercept better and play more reliably without the need for specials to intercept, we have more damage, we have other ways to get secondary damage.
He’s awesome, and it’s a testament to how good he is that he’s still in the conversation at all. But he is not as good as Cosmic champions who came after him, and people are hanging on to the notion that Hyp is the best based on using him to get through act 4, 5 and 6 in the day. We have better champs now
While I do believe nostalgia plays a role in how often Hyperion gets voted I don't see it being the main/only reason.
If he was released today I'd probably still rate him as highly considering I didn't get him early enough for nostalgia to come into play. An argument can easily be made for corvus and Hercules if I ran suicides but I wouldn't hesitate putting him above CGR.
Yes the need for special intercepts has gone down with player improvement and act 6 attack values taking a nosedive but there are still plenty of places it's useful
We have higher damaging champs now but Hyperions damage is nowhere near lacking to the point where he doesn't cut it.
There are more sources of secondary damage in general but none of the champs being compared here have dot as easily accessible and potent.
It's not going to matter much longer anyways since 6 stars are the future and Hyperion hasn't been added to the pool but for now he still gets my vote
CGR's sp1 incinerate isn't bad at all and usually unblockable.. one trait he shares with hyperion is access to DOT on sp1 (oh and armor break on sp2). He also has double immunities and power control awakened. He even has the power gain (which unfortunately requires a full 5 hit combo which can be nerfed by things like mix master).
They could be twins literally
Yes his sp1 incinerates aren't bad at all but it can't compare to sp1 spam with Hyperion unless you a) stack aptitudes with a fury b) cycle sp3s for multiple furies And that's a lot of extra steps to match something that is easily done by Hyperion. Not to mention most times you want dot the extra damage from setting something like this up gets wasted.
You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
Yes, Hype is better, but CGR is still a god. He is the highest dealing champ in the game WITHOUT synergies, and his awakened ability is pretty helpful. He counters Mysterio and Ghost at the start of the fight without doing anything, and has easy access to massive armor breaks and many other buffs. So no he’s not overrated, and sure he might have a little less utility but it’s still more than a lot of champions and he makes up for it with his damage.
I have to disagree with him having more utility than a lot of other champs, unless you’re just looking at the meme tiers. Mangog, who I admit is significantly worse, has about 10x more utility than CGR. Same applies to dormammu etc. Double immunity and armour break is all he really has. His fate seal is stupidly situational, to the point where it’s only really useful for his rotation and not utility.
He actually has yet to impress me from a utility standpoint in any content that’s actually difficult, and he was released 10 months ago.
He has better buff control than about half the mystics in the game, while getting round nodes like Mystic ward. I regularly use CGR for buff control match ups. Here's a couple of examples showing off how good his buff control is
Removing all venom's buffs, including the annoying crit resist buff, attack, crit, armour etc. You take this fight any other place than the one piece of content in the game that has increased ability accuracy so he can stun lock, Hyp is not useful for a fight like this.
BPCW in the gauntlet, he's unblockable with armour up, footloose, armour buffs, arc overload. Boy I wish there was a champ who could control those buffs. I used him for a hell of a lot of my gauntlet fights, including harder ones like Void and Killmonger.
SoP Adaptoid, almost every part of CGR's damage is taken away from him here with no armour break and no Sp3, but he can still manage it, because he has utility. Using the right rotation meant that Adaptoid triggered 4 Unstoppables in the match up.
So, we've established he has buff control. What else?
He can apply his fateseal, power lock and heal block every 2 combos, and more if you time it right. He can deal with healing, with the combination of the heal block and despair, I don't think Hyp can do that.
Similar to Doom cycle, though clearly not as powerful, you can cycle Sp3, MLLLL, MLLLM and time the second combo so that your judgements reset in the middle of it, meaning you can get a power lock cycle where the opponent will only gain power on 1 or 2 hits. But he has no utility right?
He has more block proficiency than Doom, but that's not a bonus is it, we love block damage. He has energy mediums for Korgs, incinerate immunity, bleed immunity, vigilance to deal with all miss in the game except basically stun immune tunnel vision, fantastic autoblock counter for the 4 autoblock champs that need buffs, and IMIW who needs armour (leaving only darkhawk, which he can counter anyway with miss, thor rags who you can just not intercept, and Overseer and MODOK who are probably not favourable matchups)
He also has permanent armour break against villains like Mysterio and KM, constant armour break for IMIW and Guardian, DOT from his Sp1 and it's an incinerate for stuff like stun reflection and selective time stream, pretty beefy armour up buff if you get hit during his judgement's resetting - it really reduces damage taken as a little safety net, he also has inbuilt buff duration increase which applies to other buffs and nodes - if you trigger the heimdall unstoppable/indestructable at the end of your judgements you can get a 6 second duration. Same goes for Icarus, fight or flight, heal or hide etc. Lastly, unblockable Sp1 is really nice for getting openings if your opponent is being less aggressive, or if you need to apply DOT, or use judgements urgently.
All of this, without mentioning his insane damage once. Which can be used as a utility to finish fights fast before they get hard. If you're counting who is more useful as who is the best cosmic champion, CGR can be used for fights like Champion 6.2 or Gauntlet void simply because of his crazy damage. He finishes the fight before it gets too much, and before you have a chance to die. That adds to his uses.
Now I'm not expecting you to change your mind, but it would be vindicating for me, if you look at this breakdown of his utility, and seriously say, without a hint of irony, what utility? It would show me you're so set on seeing CGR as just big yellow numbers, and utterly ignore the uses he can bring to the contest.
Nice soloes.
I’m still not impressed. The only fight that impressed me was void tbh, and that’s not even utility. Literally just damage yet again. I could tell black panther was still a struggle, given he was still gaining his armour ups and therefore going unblockable most of the fight, and he even triggered footloose a bit. This is a display of skill, not utility. His buff control wasn’t impressive here.
Could you name the auto block champs that require buffs, because unless, I’m forgetting something it seems he can’t deal with the actual difficult auto block champs except iron man.
Also ,I mentioned “difficult content” in my other comment, because that’s where I wanted to see his utility. With all due respect venom and SoP Adaptoid aren’t very hard fights.
The champion was fairly impressive, but again that was a damage showcase. His buff control wasn’t even that useful there. There are champions that literally just need a power booster and can get the fight done, even with no counter to the champion directly. and I’d never resort to CGR if I had even a decent mystic. Not bad tho.
Now.. the heal block isn’t very good. It’s all well and good saying he has it, but it’s barely realistically useful in most scenarios. His vigilance doesn’t last very long, and he needs to reset his judgement cycle to get it back. It’s really quite a pathetic miss counter. I’ve barely seen it actually being used in a scenario where it’s really needed.
This cycle you mentioned, I’ll need to actually have evidence of. It doesn’t sound very good tbh. There’s no way he can even remotely control the opponent like doom can. His incinerates really don’t last very long. Could be nice for stun reflect, but not only do you rely on a special attack, would it also affect your rotation, and therefore damage? The incinerates aren’t even great, so he’s not super valuable for something like pleasure to burn or selective time stream, than MANY other champs who have access to incinerate.
His armour break is nice, but I literally already mentioned that in the 2 pieces of actually useful utility he has already. And honestly recently I’ve realised how irrelevent armour breaks really are. They’re nice for very certain matchups like you’ve mentioned, but there are very few. Mysterio even with an armour break still gets his annoying modes. His unblockable is very meh, you have to admit. Not much to say there.
Edit: just realising you were using power boosters for void. No longer impressed.
For the record, I think you’re a good player, and that’s not me saying “you’re a noob for using power boosters”, but it doesn’t show anything for CGR.
You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
Yes, Hype is better, but CGR is still a god. He is the highest dealing champ in the game WITHOUT synergies, and his awakened ability is pretty helpful. He counters Mysterio and Ghost at the start of the fight without doing anything, and has easy access to massive armor breaks and many other buffs. So no he’s not overrated, and sure he might have a little less utility but it’s still more than a lot of champions and he makes up for it with his damage.
I have to disagree with him having more utility than a lot of other champs, unless you’re just looking at the meme tiers. Mangog, who I admit is significantly worse, has about 10x more utility than CGR. Same applies to dormammu etc. Double immunity and armour break is all he really has. His fate seal is stupidly situational, to the point where it’s only really useful for his rotation and not utility.
He actually has yet to impress me from a utility standpoint in any content that’s actually difficult, and he was released 10 months ago.
He has better buff control than about half the mystics in the game, while getting round nodes like Mystic ward. I regularly use CGR for buff control match ups. Here's a couple of examples showing off how good his buff control is
Removing all venom's buffs, including the annoying crit resist buff, attack, crit, armour etc. You take this fight any other place than the one piece of content in the game that has increased ability accuracy so he can stun lock, Hyp is not useful for a fight like this.
BPCW in the gauntlet, he's unblockable with armour up, footloose, armour buffs, arc overload. Boy I wish there was a champ who could control those buffs. I used him for a hell of a lot of my gauntlet fights, including harder ones like Void and Killmonger.
SoP Adaptoid, almost every part of CGR's damage is taken away from him here with no armour break and no Sp3, but he can still manage it, because he has utility. Using the right rotation meant that Adaptoid triggered 4 Unstoppables in the match up.
So, we've established he has buff control. What else?
He can apply his fateseal, power lock and heal block every 2 combos, and more if you time it right. He can deal with healing, with the combination of the heal block and despair, I don't think Hyp can do that.
Similar to Doom cycle, though clearly not as powerful, you can cycle Sp3, MLLLL, MLLLM and time the second combo so that your judgements reset in the middle of it, meaning you can get a power lock cycle where the opponent will only gain power on 1 or 2 hits. But he has no utility right?
He has more block proficiency than Doom, but that's not a bonus is it, we love block damage. He has energy mediums for Korgs, incinerate immunity, bleed immunity, vigilance to deal with all miss in the game except basically stun immune tunnel vision, fantastic autoblock counter for the 4 autoblock champs that need buffs, and IMIW who needs armour (leaving only darkhawk, which he can counter anyway with miss, thor rags who you can just not intercept, and Overseer and MODOK who are probably not favourable matchups)
He also has permanent armour break against villains like Mysterio and KM, constant armour break for IMIW and Guardian, DOT from his Sp1 and it's an incinerate for stuff like stun reflection and selective time stream, pretty beefy armour up buff if you get hit during his judgement's resetting - it really reduces damage taken as a little safety net, he also has inbuilt buff duration increase which applies to other buffs and nodes - if you trigger the heimdall unstoppable/indestructable at the end of your judgements you can get a 6 second duration. Same goes for Icarus, fight or flight, heal or hide etc. Lastly, unblockable Sp1 is really nice for getting openings if your opponent is being less aggressive, or if you need to apply DOT, or use judgements urgently.
All of this, without mentioning his insane damage once. Which can be used as a utility to finish fights fast before they get hard. If you're counting who is more useful as who is the best cosmic champion, CGR can be used for fights like Champion 6.2 or Gauntlet void simply because of his crazy damage. He finishes the fight before it gets too much, and before you have a chance to die. That adds to his uses.
Now I'm not expecting you to change your mind, but it would be vindicating for me, if you look at this breakdown of his utility, and seriously say, without a hint of irony, what utility? It would show me you're so set on seeing CGR as just big yellow numbers, and utterly ignore the uses he can bring to the contest.
Nice soloes.
I’m still not impressed. The only fight that impressed me was void tbh, and that’s not even utility. Literally just damage yet again. I could tell black panther was still a struggle, given he was still gaining his armour ups and therefore going unblockable most of the fight, and he even triggered footloose a bit. This is a display of skill, not utility. His buff control wasn’t impressive here.
Could you name the auto block champs that require buffs, because unless, I’m forgetting something it seems he can’t deal with the actual difficult auto block champs except iron man.
Also ,I mentioned “difficult content” in my other comment, because that’s where I wanted to see his utility. With all due respect venom and SoP Adaptoid aren’t very hard fights.
The champion was fairly impressive, but again that was a damage showcase. His buff control wasn’t even that useful there. There are champions that literally just need a power booster and can get the fight done, even with no counter to the champion directly. and I’d never resort to CGR if I had even a decent mystic. Not bad tho.
Now.. the heal block isn’t very good. It’s all well and good saying he has it, but it’s barely realistically useful in most scenarios. His vigilance doesn’t last very long, and he needs to reset his judgement cycle to get it back. It’s really quite a pathetic miss counter. I’ve barely seen it actually being used in a scenario where it’s really needed.
This cycle you mentioned, I’ll need to actually have evidence of. It doesn’t sound very good tbh. There’s no way he can even remotely control the opponent like doom can. His incinerates really don’t last very long. Could be nice for stun reflect, but not only do you rely on a special attack, would it also affect your rotation, and therefore damage? The incinerates aren’t even great, so he’s not super valuable for something like pleasure to burn or selective time stream, than MANY other champs who have access to incinerate.
His armour break is nice, but I literally already mentioned that in the 2 pieces of actually useful utility he has already. And honestly recently I’ve realised how irrelevent armour breaks really are. They’re nice for very certain matchups like you’ve mentioned, but there are very few. Mysterio even with an armour break still gets his annoying modes. His unblockable is very meh, you have to admit. Not much to say there.
Edit: just realising you were using power boosters for void. No longer impressed.
For the record, I think you’re a good player, and that’s not me saying “you’re a noob for using power boosters”, but it doesn’t show anything for CGR.
The BP fight was a display of the buff control, that is probably one of the most buff heavy hard end game content fight's in the game, with a buff almost every hit being triggered, plus 2 on a timer, plus two on specials, all of which either make him unblockable, unstoppable or evade? Damn, man, I mean talk about brushing off feats in the name of your opinion. I wouldn't say he struggled, it felt pretty simple to do tbh. It's just keeping uptime on the fate seal, near the end it was more of a mistake on my part to go for the Sp2 instead of cycle another sp3. had I not done that, the fight would be over at the next sp2 and i wouldn't have had to mess around for another minute trying to regain the control I had.
With the autoblock champs, I mean Medusa, Nova and Heimdall. All of which need buffs to autoblock.
So what sort of fights would you say do show his utility? Because I'm showing a lot of fights that Hyperion simply couldn't do. I could go and do a few Act 6 paths if you want? Act 7 isn't particularly hard. CGR can solo a lot of gauntlet fights, a lot of SOP fights but apparently they aren't the sort of end game content that satisfies you.
So you mentioned it's fine to use power boosters to solo the champion, but yet it's not ok for Void in gauntlet, I feel like you kind of need to pick a side. Not just the one that's against CGR. The champion is also only immune to fate seal on that particular fight, so bear in mind his buff control would be useful in any other situation apart from that node.
Heal block - on it's own sure, but you can keep up so many judgements with CGR and armour breaks that coupled with that, yes he can deal with immense healing.
His vigilance doesn't last long when you use it on the first cycle, but it's still actually long enough to cycle if you need him for a miss counter. Even if you go Vigilance, Power gain, parry heavy Sp2, by the time the vigilance has gone you're ready to do it again. It's viable for tunnel vision, and it's viable for other miss scenarios.
So if you go to 2:53of this video, you'll see that Luke cage has just used an sp1 so he's on 0 power. In this rotation, it takes him until 7:18 for him to gain 3 bars of power without that power control. That was 9 Sp3s and 172 hits. He went from 86% health to 32% in the time it took Luke cage to get 3 bars of power. That's 3.1m damage. But yeah, anyone who can power lock an opponent and inflict 3.1m damage doesn't seem like they have any utility at all. Not to mention it's frickin Luke cage, widely considered the hardest fight in the game. Also, that's another pro for his buff control, keeping someone in a loop and removing their buffs for all but 2 or 3 hits, then an sp3 and no more buffs.
I'd be interested to hear your rationale behind a champion soloing Luke Cage, doing more than an abyss health span of damage (Omega has 2.6m health) all while keeping them powerlocked and not letting them get to an sp3, having no utility to do so
@AssumedName and just to add on regarding the power booster. This game is about using different champions, synergies and boosts to get through fights. If you avoid using revives then that is the aim. That Gauntlet void was one of the hardest fights and CGR made it look like a cakewalk. I think the only cosmic champ who would have any chance of beating that void without power boosters would be hercules, and even then it would be a stretch. So tell me, why does using the resources available for the highest end game content remove a fight from even being in the conversation of being good. Corvus couldn't do it, Hyperion couldn't do it. Herc maybe could.
You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
Yes, Hype is better, but CGR is still a god. He is the highest dealing champ in the game WITHOUT synergies, and his awakened ability is pretty helpful. He counters Mysterio and Ghost at the start of the fight without doing anything, and has easy access to massive armor breaks and many other buffs. So no he’s not overrated, and sure he might have a little less utility but it’s still more than a lot of champions and he makes up for it with his damage.
I have to disagree with him having more utility than a lot of other champs, unless you’re just looking at the meme tiers. Mangog, who I admit is significantly worse, has about 10x more utility than CGR. Same applies to dormammu etc. Double immunity and armour break is all he really has. His fate seal is stupidly situational, to the point where it’s only really useful for his rotation and not utility.
He actually has yet to impress me from a utility standpoint in any content that’s actually difficult, and he was released 10 months ago.
He has better buff control than about half the mystics in the game, while getting round nodes like Mystic ward. I regularly use CGR for buff control match ups. Here's a couple of examples showing off how good his buff control is
Removing all venom's buffs, including the annoying crit resist buff, attack, crit, armour etc. You take this fight any other place than the one piece of content in the game that has increased ability accuracy so he can stun lock, Hyp is not useful for a fight like this.
BPCW in the gauntlet, he's unblockable with armour up, footloose, armour buffs, arc overload. Boy I wish there was a champ who could control those buffs. I used him for a hell of a lot of my gauntlet fights, including harder ones like Void and Killmonger.
SoP Adaptoid, almost every part of CGR's damage is taken away from him here with no armour break and no Sp3, but he can still manage it, because he has utility. Using the right rotation meant that Adaptoid triggered 4 Unstoppables in the match up.
So, we've established he has buff control. What else?
He can apply his fateseal, power lock and heal block every 2 combos, and more if you time it right. He can deal with healing, with the combination of the heal block and despair, I don't think Hyp can do that.
Similar to Doom cycle, though clearly not as powerful, you can cycle Sp3, MLLLL, MLLLM and time the second combo so that your judgements reset in the middle of it, meaning you can get a power lock cycle where the opponent will only gain power on 1 or 2 hits. But he has no utility right?
He has more block proficiency than Doom, but that's not a bonus is it, we love block damage. He has energy mediums for Korgs, incinerate immunity, bleed immunity, vigilance to deal with all miss in the game except basically stun immune tunnel vision, fantastic autoblock counter for the 4 autoblock champs that need buffs, and IMIW who needs armour (leaving only darkhawk, which he can counter anyway with miss, thor rags who you can just not intercept, and Overseer and MODOK who are probably not favourable matchups)
He also has permanent armour break against villains like Mysterio and KM, constant armour break for IMIW and Guardian, DOT from his Sp1 and it's an incinerate for stuff like stun reflection and selective time stream, pretty beefy armour up buff if you get hit during his judgement's resetting - it really reduces damage taken as a little safety net, he also has inbuilt buff duration increase which applies to other buffs and nodes - if you trigger the heimdall unstoppable/indestructable at the end of your judgements you can get a 6 second duration. Same goes for Icarus, fight or flight, heal or hide etc. Lastly, unblockable Sp1 is really nice for getting openings if your opponent is being less aggressive, or if you need to apply DOT, or use judgements urgently.
All of this, without mentioning his insane damage once. Which can be used as a utility to finish fights fast before they get hard. If you're counting who is more useful as who is the best cosmic champion, CGR can be used for fights like Champion 6.2 or Gauntlet void simply because of his crazy damage. He finishes the fight before it gets too much, and before you have a chance to die. That adds to his uses.
Now I'm not expecting you to change your mind, but it would be vindicating for me, if you look at this breakdown of his utility, and seriously say, without a hint of irony, what utility? It would show me you're so set on seeing CGR as just big yellow numbers, and utterly ignore the uses he can bring to the contest.
Nice soloes.
I’m still not impressed. The only fight that impressed me was void tbh, and that’s not even utility. Literally just damage yet again. I could tell black panther was still a struggle, given he was still gaining his armour ups and therefore going unblockable most of the fight, and he even triggered footloose a bit. This is a display of skill, not utility. His buff control wasn’t impressive here.
Could you name the auto block champs that require buffs, because unless, I’m forgetting something it seems he can’t deal with the actual difficult auto block champs except iron man.
Also ,I mentioned “difficult content” in my other comment, because that’s where I wanted to see his utility. With all due respect venom and SoP Adaptoid aren’t very hard fights.
The champion was fairly impressive, but again that was a damage showcase. His buff control wasn’t even that useful there. There are champions that literally just need a power booster and can get the fight done, even with no counter to the champion directly. and I’d never resort to CGR if I had even a decent mystic. Not bad tho.
Now.. the heal block isn’t very good. It’s all well and good saying he has it, but it’s barely realistically useful in most scenarios. His vigilance doesn’t last very long, and he needs to reset his judgement cycle to get it back. It’s really quite a pathetic miss counter. I’ve barely seen it actually being used in a scenario where it’s really needed.
This cycle you mentioned, I’ll need to actually have evidence of. It doesn’t sound very good tbh. There’s no way he can even remotely control the opponent like doom can. His incinerates really don’t last very long. Could be nice for stun reflect, but not only do you rely on a special attack, would it also affect your rotation, and therefore damage? The incinerates aren’t even great, so he’s not super valuable for something like pleasure to burn or selective time stream, than MANY other champs who have access to incinerate.
His armour break is nice, but I literally already mentioned that in the 2 pieces of actually useful utility he has already. And honestly recently I’ve realised how irrelevent armour breaks really are. They’re nice for very certain matchups like you’ve mentioned, but there are very few. Mysterio even with an armour break still gets his annoying modes. His unblockable is very meh, you have to admit. Not much to say there.
Edit: just realising you were using power boosters for void. No longer impressed.
For the record, I think you’re a good player, and that’s not me saying “you’re a noob for using power boosters”, but it doesn’t show anything for CGR.
The BP fight was a display of the buff control, that is probably one of the most buff heavy hard end game content fight's in the game, with a buff almost every hit being triggered, plus 2 on a timer, plus two on specials, all of which either make him unblockable, unstoppable or evade? Damn, man, I mean talk about brushing off feats in the name of your opinion. I wouldn't say he struggled, it felt pretty simple to do tbh. It's just keeping uptime on the fate seal, near the end it was more of a mistake on my part to go for the Sp2 instead of cycle another sp3. had I not done that, the fight would be over at the next sp2 and i wouldn't have had to mess around for another minute trying to regain the control I had.
With the autoblock champs, I mean Medusa, Nova and Heimdall. All of which need buffs to autoblock.
So what sort of fights would you say do show his utility? Because I'm showing a lot of fights that Hyperion simply couldn't do. I could go and do a few Act 6 paths if you want? Act 7 isn't particularly hard. CGR can solo a lot of gauntlet fights, a lot of SOP fights but apparently they aren't the sort of end game content that satisfies you.
So you mentioned it's fine to use power boosters to solo the champion, but yet it's not ok for Void in gauntlet, I feel like you kind of need to pick a side. Not just the one that's against CGR. The champion is also only immune to fate seal on that particular fight, so bear in mind his buff control would be useful in any other situation apart from that node.
Heal block - on it's own sure, but you can keep up so many judgements with CGR and armour breaks that coupled with that, yes he can deal with immense healing.
His vigilance doesn't last long when you use it on the first cycle, but it's still actually long enough to cycle if you need him for a miss counter. Even if you go Vigilance, Power gain, parry heavy Sp2, by the time the vigilance has gone you're ready to do it again. It's viable for tunnel vision, and it's viable for other miss scenarios.
So if you go to 2:53of this video, you'll see that Luke cage has just used an sp1 so he's on 0 power. In this rotation, it takes him until 7:18 for him to gain 3 bars of power without that power control. That was 9 Sp3s and 172 hits. He went from 86% health to 32% in the time it took Luke cage to get 3 bars of power. That's 3.1m damage. But yeah, anyone who can power lock an opponent and inflict 3.1m damage doesn't seem like they have any utility at all. Not to mention it's frickin Luke cage, widely considered the hardest fight in the game. Also, that's another pro for his buff control, keeping someone in a loop and removing their buffs for all but 2 or 3 hits, then an sp3 and no more buffs.
I'd be interested to hear your rationale behind a champion soloing Luke Cage, doing more than an abyss health span of damage (Omega has 2.6m health) all while keeping them powerlocked and not letting them get to an sp3, having no utility to do so
But the point about the bp fight was that he was still gaining a TON of buffs. It didn’t show this “impressive buff control” at all.
I never said it was “fine” to use power boosters for the champion and not for void? Feels like you completely misinterpreted my point. My point was using a power booster for void wasn’t a showcase of utility at all, and made it much less impressive? I didn’t say id sentence you to death for using a power booster lol. Do what you want, but it’s not of much value for the sake of this argument.
The only “lot of gauntlet fights” you’ve mentioned have been void ( which I’m not going over again), bp (which once again didn’t impress me) and km, which is fair. He’s actually good for him. Not a lot to me. The SoP fights he’s actually done well at have been the easy ones from what I’ve seen so far. He may do well with the one in 15 mins. Who knows? Even in the abyss I’ve not seen a great deal from him.
And act 6 gameplay wise. He’s basically just done the easier stuff, except 6.3.5 Mysterio, and maybe other stuff here and there. That was cool. Of course, if you can showcase him on a HARD path/ fight, where there aren’t a great deal of option for (for example NOT tunnel vision and biohazard, before you get any ideas), then be my guest. Up to you. Of course difficulty is fairly subjective, and dependent on current roster, so I mean its whatever.
Once again, why am I barely seeing his vigilance being used? I need video evidence bruh, because I don’t remember him having this much uptime of no miss, in many scenarios.
The power lock rotation was very impressive. How was the power gain lasting so long? I’m really intrigued about this actually.
Also, why are you comparing him to hype? I haven’t mentioned him in any of my arguments , or else we’d be here all year. The heal block point was nothing btw. I still think it’s not very reliable for constant heal control.
At the end of the day, this back and forth is cool, but it’ll get us no where. I don’t see any minds being changed, and I’ve got a SoP boss to check out. Respond if you want tho.
You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
Yes, Hype is better, but CGR is still a god. He is the highest dealing champ in the game WITHOUT synergies, and his awakened ability is pretty helpful. He counters Mysterio and Ghost at the start of the fight without doing anything, and has easy access to massive armor breaks and many other buffs. So no he’s not overrated, and sure he might have a little less utility but it’s still more than a lot of champions and he makes up for it with his damage.
I have to disagree with him having more utility than a lot of other champs, unless you’re just looking at the meme tiers. Mangog, who I admit is significantly worse, has about 10x more utility than CGR. Same applies to dormammu etc. Double immunity and armour break is all he really has. His fate seal is stupidly situational, to the point where it’s only really useful for his rotation and not utility.
He actually has yet to impress me from a utility standpoint in any content that’s actually difficult, and he was released 10 months ago.
He has better buff control than about half the mystics in the game, while getting round nodes like Mystic ward. I regularly use CGR for buff control match ups. Here's a couple of examples showing off how good his buff control is
Removing all venom's buffs, including the annoying crit resist buff, attack, crit, armour etc. You take this fight any other place than the one piece of content in the game that has increased ability accuracy so he can stun lock, Hyp is not useful for a fight like this.
BPCW in the gauntlet, he's unblockable with armour up, footloose, armour buffs, arc overload. Boy I wish there was a champ who could control those buffs. I used him for a hell of a lot of my gauntlet fights, including harder ones like Void and Killmonger.
SoP Adaptoid, almost every part of CGR's damage is taken away from him here with no armour break and no Sp3, but he can still manage it, because he has utility. Using the right rotation meant that Adaptoid triggered 4 Unstoppables in the match up.
So, we've established he has buff control. What else?
He can apply his fateseal, power lock and heal block every 2 combos, and more if you time it right. He can deal with healing, with the combination of the heal block and despair, I don't think Hyp can do that.
Similar to Doom cycle, though clearly not as powerful, you can cycle Sp3, MLLLL, MLLLM and time the second combo so that your judgements reset in the middle of it, meaning you can get a power lock cycle where the opponent will only gain power on 1 or 2 hits. But he has no utility right?
He has more block proficiency than Doom, but that's not a bonus is it, we love block damage. He has energy mediums for Korgs, incinerate immunity, bleed immunity, vigilance to deal with all miss in the game except basically stun immune tunnel vision, fantastic autoblock counter for the 4 autoblock champs that need buffs, and IMIW who needs armour (leaving only darkhawk, which he can counter anyway with miss, thor rags who you can just not intercept, and Overseer and MODOK who are probably not favourable matchups)
He also has permanent armour break against villains like Mysterio and KM, constant armour break for IMIW and Guardian, DOT from his Sp1 and it's an incinerate for stuff like stun reflection and selective time stream, pretty beefy armour up buff if you get hit during his judgement's resetting - it really reduces damage taken as a little safety net, he also has inbuilt buff duration increase which applies to other buffs and nodes - if you trigger the heimdall unstoppable/indestructable at the end of your judgements you can get a 6 second duration. Same goes for Icarus, fight or flight, heal or hide etc. Lastly, unblockable Sp1 is really nice for getting openings if your opponent is being less aggressive, or if you need to apply DOT, or use judgements urgently.
All of this, without mentioning his insane damage once. Which can be used as a utility to finish fights fast before they get hard. If you're counting who is more useful as who is the best cosmic champion, CGR can be used for fights like Champion 6.2 or Gauntlet void simply because of his crazy damage. He finishes the fight before it gets too much, and before you have a chance to die. That adds to his uses.
Now I'm not expecting you to change your mind, but it would be vindicating for me, if you look at this breakdown of his utility, and seriously say, without a hint of irony, what utility? It would show me you're so set on seeing CGR as just big yellow numbers, and utterly ignore the uses he can bring to the contest.
Nice soloes.
I’m still not impressed. The only fight that impressed me was void tbh, and that’s not even utility. Literally just damage yet again. I could tell black panther was still a struggle, given he was still gaining his armour ups and therefore going unblockable most of the fight, and he even triggered footloose a bit. This is a display of skill, not utility. His buff control wasn’t impressive here.
Could you name the auto block champs that require buffs, because unless, I’m forgetting something it seems he can’t deal with the actual difficult auto block champs except iron man.
Also ,I mentioned “difficult content” in my other comment, because that’s where I wanted to see his utility. With all due respect venom and SoP Adaptoid aren’t very hard fights.
The champion was fairly impressive, but again that was a damage showcase. His buff control wasn’t even that useful there. There are champions that literally just need a power booster and can get the fight done, even with no counter to the champion directly. and I’d never resort to CGR if I had even a decent mystic. Not bad tho.
Now.. the heal block isn’t very good. It’s all well and good saying he has it, but it’s barely realistically useful in most scenarios. His vigilance doesn’t last very long, and he needs to reset his judgement cycle to get it back. It’s really quite a pathetic miss counter. I’ve barely seen it actually being used in a scenario where it’s really needed.
This cycle you mentioned, I’ll need to actually have evidence of. It doesn’t sound very good tbh. There’s no way he can even remotely control the opponent like doom can. His incinerates really don’t last very long. Could be nice for stun reflect, but not only do you rely on a special attack, would it also affect your rotation, and therefore damage? The incinerates aren’t even great, so he’s not super valuable for something like pleasure to burn or selective time stream, than MANY other champs who have access to incinerate.
His armour break is nice, but I literally already mentioned that in the 2 pieces of actually useful utility he has already. And honestly recently I’ve realised how irrelevent armour breaks really are. They’re nice for very certain matchups like you’ve mentioned, but there are very few. Mysterio even with an armour break still gets his annoying modes. His unblockable is very meh, you have to admit. Not much to say there.
Edit: just realising you were using power boosters for void. No longer impressed.
For the record, I think you’re a good player, and that’s not me saying “you’re a noob for using power boosters”, but it doesn’t show anything for CGR.
The BP fight was a display of the buff control, that is probably one of the most buff heavy hard end game content fight's in the game, with a buff almost every hit being triggered, plus 2 on a timer, plus two on specials, all of which either make him unblockable, unstoppable or evade? Damn, man, I mean talk about brushing off feats in the name of your opinion. I wouldn't say he struggled, it felt pretty simple to do tbh. It's just keeping uptime on the fate seal, near the end it was more of a mistake on my part to go for the Sp2 instead of cycle another sp3. had I not done that, the fight would be over at the next sp2 and i wouldn't have had to mess around for another minute trying to regain the control I had.
With the autoblock champs, I mean Medusa, Nova and Heimdall. All of which need buffs to autoblock.
So what sort of fights would you say do show his utility? Because I'm showing a lot of fights that Hyperion simply couldn't do. I could go and do a few Act 6 paths if you want? Act 7 isn't particularly hard. CGR can solo a lot of gauntlet fights, a lot of SOP fights but apparently they aren't the sort of end game content that satisfies you.
So you mentioned it's fine to use power boosters to solo the champion, but yet it's not ok for Void in gauntlet, I feel like you kind of need to pick a side. Not just the one that's against CGR. The champion is also only immune to fate seal on that particular fight, so bear in mind his buff control would be useful in any other situation apart from that node.
Heal block - on it's own sure, but you can keep up so many judgements with CGR and armour breaks that coupled with that, yes he can deal with immense healing.
His vigilance doesn't last long when you use it on the first cycle, but it's still actually long enough to cycle if you need him for a miss counter. Even if you go Vigilance, Power gain, parry heavy Sp2, by the time the vigilance has gone you're ready to do it again. It's viable for tunnel vision, and it's viable for other miss scenarios.
So if you go to 2:53of this video, you'll see that Luke cage has just used an sp1 so he's on 0 power. In this rotation, it takes him until 7:18 for him to gain 3 bars of power without that power control. That was 9 Sp3s and 172 hits. He went from 86% health to 32% in the time it took Luke cage to get 3 bars of power. That's 3.1m damage. But yeah, anyone who can power lock an opponent and inflict 3.1m damage doesn't seem like they have any utility at all. Not to mention it's frickin Luke cage, widely considered the hardest fight in the game. Also, that's another pro for his buff control, keeping someone in a loop and removing their buffs for all but 2 or 3 hits, then an sp3 and no more buffs.
I'd be interested to hear your rationale behind a champion soloing Luke Cage, doing more than an abyss health span of damage (Omega has 2.6m health) all while keeping them powerlocked and not letting them get to an sp3, having no utility to do so
But the point about the bp fight was that he was still gaining a TON of buffs. It didn’t show this “impressive buff control” at all.
I never said it was “fine” to use power boosters for the champion and not for void? Feels like you completely misinterpreted my point. My point was using a power booster for void wasn’t a showcase of utility at all, and made it much less impressive? I didn’t say id sentence you to death for using a power booster lol. Do what you want, but it’s not of much value for the sake of this argument.
The only “lot of gauntlet fights” you’ve mentioned have been void ( which I’m not going over again), bp (which once again didn’t impress me) and km, which is fair. He’s actually good for him. Not a lot to me. The SoP fights he’s actually done well at have been the easy ones from what I’ve seen so far. He may do well with the one in 15 mins. Who knows? Even in the abyss I’ve not seen a great deal from him.
And act 6 gameplay wise. He’s basically just done the easier stuff, except 6.3.5 Mysterio, and maybe other stuff here and there. That was cool. Of course, if you can showcase him on a HARD path/ fight, where there aren’t a great deal of option for (for example NOT tunnel vision and biohazard, before you get any ideas), then be my guest. Up to you. Of course difficulty is fairly subjective, and dependent on current roster, so I mean its whatever.
Once again, why am I barely seeing his vigilance being used? I need video evidence bruh, because I don’t remember him having this much uptime of no miss, in many scenarios.
The power lock rotation was very impressive. How was the power gain lasting so long? I’m really intrigued about this actually.
Also, why are you comparing him to hype? I haven’t mentioned him in any of my arguments , or else we’d be here all year. The heal block point was nothing btw. I still think it’s not very reliable for constant heal control.
Your entire arguement is like "yea he's done this but nah".
@AssumedName I'll reply here to avoid quoting such a large thread.
Regarding buff control, the point is that he can manage such a buff heavy fight, even though some are getting through. And as shown in the Luke Cage video, I didn't even perform the rotation to perfection. It could have been done better. How many buffs get through in that Luke cage solo? Hint: Happy Mcmuffins is a much better player than I.
With the power booster, you said you were no longer impressed because I used a power booster on void, yet in the same post said lots of champions can do 6.2 champion with a power booster. You see the disconnect?
Re: Gauntlet. I used him on my team and used him for Vision, Weapon X, 25% of Korg, BPCW, Domino, Apoc, Killmonger, Apocalypse and Void. Considering I had Quake on my team, using any champion for 9/20 champions seems like he's handling himself pretty well. I didn't even use quake that much.
With the abyss, he's done solos of Omega, IMIW, Ghost, Luke Cage that I've seen. Lagacy also used him to take half of Killmonger which is a pretty decent dent, he managed to get Quake 25% down in the first set of abyss charges before getting KOd, so on track for 50% there too. Just search CGR abyss if you want to check them out. There was also a youtuber Simula, who brought CGR for his path 2 and said he worked great for Punisher 2099, Korg, Luke Cage and IMIW.
Here's the thing with act 6, with the way you've been answering most of my points I get the feeling if I took any act 6 path you'd probably just say eh, there are harder ones, he's not great for it, look what you did wrong there. So feel free to suggest a few that you think are difficult but could prove the lack of CGR's utility.
I literally just now went and tested his vigilance buff, and on tunnel vision you can go parry, LLMLM, MLLLL, heavy into special 2 and the vigilance is still lasting during the special attack. If you'd like proof feel free to add me on Line and I can send you a video of it. My ID is bittersteel99. That was only one rotation I tested in any case, I feel like there could be better ones, I will do more testing. I'm thinking heavy attack until a special 1, dex, and then end with medium for a super long one.
Regarding the power gain being so long, each subsequent judgement increases buff duration by 20%, and any triggered after the 5th judgement gets 200% increased duration. So you get an incredibly long power gain that gets you right back up to an SP3, or you can hold off a combo and go for a huge SP2. That's what I mean about the Doom Cycle-esque mechanic he has. Do you admit that 3.1m damage before the opponent gets an sp3 is pretty good utility for a power lock? I'm genuinely curious how much evidence you need to concede that CGR has utility
How is it not a good heal block? You literally have debuffs on the opponent enough to block out healing all the time. MSD proved that's useful by soloing abyss deadpool with Overseer.
You say this back and forth is going nowhere, but it really just feels like I am putting forward use after use of CGR's utility, uses in end game content, and you go yeahhh that's true, but he still has no utility.
CGR has really underrated utility ngl. People just ignore his sig and play him for the big numbers. I love his power lock/heal block, great for mephisto matchups, and that armor break being applied indefinitely on villains is great for killmonger matchups. Can also counter miss, not quite as well as most champs, but it’s there and it’s decent. Bleed and incinerate immunity to go with it. Great damage and a decent kit to go with it.
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He actually has yet to impress me from a utility standpoint in any content that’s actually difficult, and he was released 10 months ago.
@walkerdog
What work to 5hit do you have to go through? what do you mean? Do you mean parry, LLMLM? That’s not effort , that’s a work around to counter content. It’s a different way to play to counter nodes
How does Hyperion counter tunnel vision?
Again, “effort” to use a champion does not take anything away from how good they are. Would you agree that quake is the best champion in the game? Because she takes effort to use.
So are you saying that because Hyperion can deal with evade by having a special ready, and because you don’t want to 5 hit combo with CGR, that’s enough to mean he’s the best cosmic?
What actual points are there that you have, for why Hyperion is better than CGR
I would definitely be interested if I ever get a 5/6 herc.
I really don't care till I own newly released champs, Why bother with the things I don't have.
Gonna invest on the 4* and do some testing now. This thread have me intrigued.
Again, “effort” to use a champion does not take anything away from how good they are. Would you agree that quake is the best champion in the game? Because she takes effort to use.
So are you saying that because Hyperion can deal with evade by having a special ready, and because you don’t want to 5 hit combo with CGR, that’s enough to mean he’s the best cosmic?
What actual points are there that you have, for why Hyperion is better than CGR
Removing all venom's buffs, including the annoying crit resist buff, attack, crit, armour etc. You take this fight any other place than the one piece of content in the game that has increased ability accuracy so he can stun lock, Hyp is not useful for a fight like this.
BPCW in the gauntlet, he's unblockable with armour up, footloose, armour buffs, arc overload. Boy I wish there was a champ who could control those buffs. I used him for a hell of a lot of my gauntlet fights, including harder ones like Void and Killmonger.
SoP Adaptoid, almost every part of CGR's damage is taken away from him here with no armour break and no Sp3, but he can still manage it, because he has utility. Using the right rotation meant that Adaptoid triggered 4 Unstoppables in the match up.
So, we've established he has buff control. What else?
He can apply his fateseal, power lock and heal block every 2 combos, and more if you time it right. He can deal with healing, with the combination of the heal block and despair, I don't think Hyp can do that.
Similar to Doom cycle, though clearly not as powerful, you can cycle Sp3, MLLLL, MLLLM and time the second combo so that your judgements reset in the middle of it, meaning you can get a power lock cycle where the opponent will only gain power on 1 or 2 hits. But he has no utility right?
He has more block proficiency than Doom, but that's not a bonus is it, we love block damage. He has energy mediums for Korgs, incinerate immunity, bleed immunity, vigilance to deal with all miss in the game except basically stun immune tunnel vision, fantastic autoblock counter for the 4 autoblock champs that need buffs, and IMIW who needs armour (leaving only darkhawk, which he can counter anyway with miss, thor rags who you can just not intercept,
and Overseer and MODOK who are probably not favourable matchups)
He also has permanent armour break against villains like Mysterio and KM, constant armour break for IMIW and Guardian, DOT from his Sp1 and it's an incinerate for stuff like stun reflection and selective time stream, pretty beefy armour up buff if you get hit during his judgement's resetting - it really reduces damage taken as a little safety net, he also has inbuilt buff duration increase which applies to other buffs and nodes - if you trigger the heimdall unstoppable/indestructable at the end of your judgements you can get a 6 second duration. Same goes for Icarus, fight or flight, heal or hide etc. Lastly, unblockable Sp1 is really nice for getting openings if your opponent is being less aggressive, or if you need to apply DOT, or use judgements urgently.
All of this, without mentioning his insane damage once. Which can be used as a utility to finish fights fast before they get hard. If you're counting who is more useful as who is the best cosmic champion, CGR can be used for fights like Champion 6.2 or Gauntlet void simply because of his crazy damage. He finishes the fight before it gets too much, and before you have a chance to die. That adds to his uses.
Now I'm not expecting you to change your mind, but it would be vindicating for me, if you look at this breakdown of his utility, and seriously say, without a hint of irony, what utility? It would show me you're so set on seeing CGR as just big yellow numbers, and utterly ignore the uses he can bring to the contest.
And there it is, that's all it comes down to. If that's enough to make a top champion compared to the proven large amount of utility CGR has, the immense damage (not similar damage), then that explains why some of the community is stuck on Hyperion being the best.
Yes it’s still just as useful for those nodes, and yes it is better than CGRs power gain. But I don’t think it’s enough to justify him being the top cosmic. That’s one small drop in an ocean of uses that CGR has
They could be twins literally
a) stack aptitudes with a fury
b) cycle sp3s for multiple furies
And that's a lot of extra steps to match something that is easily done by Hyperion. Not to mention most times you want dot the extra damage from setting something like this up gets wasted.
I’m still not impressed. The only fight that impressed me was void tbh, and that’s not even utility. Literally just damage yet again. I could tell black panther was still a struggle, given he was still gaining his armour ups and therefore going unblockable most of the fight, and he even triggered footloose a bit. This is a display of skill, not utility. His buff control wasn’t impressive here.
Could you name the auto block champs that require buffs, because unless, I’m forgetting something it seems he can’t deal with the actual difficult auto block champs except iron man.
Also ,I mentioned “difficult content” in my other comment, because that’s where I wanted to see his utility. With all due respect venom and SoP Adaptoid aren’t very hard fights.
The champion was fairly impressive, but again that was a damage showcase. His buff control wasn’t even that useful there. There are champions that literally just need a power booster and can get the fight done, even with no counter to the champion directly. and I’d never resort to CGR if I had even a decent mystic. Not bad tho.
Now.. the heal block isn’t very good. It’s all well and good saying he has it, but it’s barely realistically useful in most scenarios. His vigilance doesn’t last very long, and he needs to reset his judgement cycle to get it back. It’s really quite a pathetic miss counter. I’ve barely seen it actually being used in a scenario where it’s really needed.
This cycle you mentioned, I’ll need to actually have evidence of. It doesn’t sound very good tbh. There’s no way he can even remotely control the opponent like doom can. His incinerates really don’t last very long. Could be nice for stun reflect, but not only do you rely on a special attack, would it also affect your rotation, and therefore damage? The incinerates aren’t even great, so he’s not super valuable for something like pleasure to burn or selective time stream, than MANY other champs who have access to incinerate.
His armour break is nice, but I literally already mentioned that in the 2 pieces of actually useful utility he has already. And honestly recently I’ve realised how irrelevent armour breaks really are. They’re nice for very certain matchups like you’ve mentioned, but there are very few. Mysterio even with an armour break still gets his annoying modes. His unblockable is very meh, you have to admit. Not much to say there.
Edit: just realising you were using power boosters for void. No longer impressed.
For the record, I think you’re a good player, and that’s not me saying “you’re a noob for using power boosters”, but it doesn’t show anything for CGR.
With the autoblock champs, I mean Medusa, Nova and Heimdall. All of which need buffs to autoblock.
So what sort of fights would you say do show his utility? Because I'm showing a lot of fights that Hyperion simply couldn't do. I could go and do a few Act 6 paths if you want? Act 7 isn't particularly hard. CGR can solo a lot of gauntlet fights, a lot of SOP fights but apparently they aren't the sort of end game content that satisfies you.
So you mentioned it's fine to use power boosters to solo the champion, but yet it's not ok for Void in gauntlet, I feel like you kind of need to pick a side. Not just the one that's against CGR. The champion is also only immune to fate seal on that particular fight, so bear in mind his buff control would be useful in any other situation apart from that node.
Heal block - on it's own sure, but you can keep up so many judgements with CGR and armour breaks that coupled with that, yes he can deal with immense healing.
His vigilance doesn't last long when you use it on the first cycle, but it's still actually long enough to cycle if you need him for a miss counter. Even if you go Vigilance, Power gain, parry heavy Sp2, by the time the vigilance has gone you're ready to do it again. It's viable for tunnel vision, and it's viable for other miss scenarios.
So if you go to 2:53of this video, you'll see that Luke cage has just used an sp1 so he's on 0 power. In this rotation, it takes him until 7:18 for him to gain 3 bars of power without that power control. That was 9 Sp3s and 172 hits. He went from 86% health to 32% in the time it took Luke cage to get 3 bars of power. That's 3.1m damage. But yeah, anyone who can power lock an opponent and inflict 3.1m damage doesn't seem like they have any utility at all. Not to mention it's frickin Luke cage, widely considered the hardest fight in the game. Also, that's another pro for his buff control, keeping someone in a loop and removing their buffs for all but 2 or 3 hits, then an sp3 and no more buffs.
I'd be interested to hear your rationale behind a champion soloing Luke Cage, doing more than an abyss health span of damage (Omega has 2.6m health) all while keeping them powerlocked and not letting them get to an sp3, having no utility to do so
I never said it was “fine” to use power boosters for the champion and not for void? Feels like you completely misinterpreted my point. My point was using a power booster for void wasn’t a showcase of utility at all, and made it much less impressive? I didn’t say id sentence you to death for using a power booster lol. Do what you want, but it’s not of much value for the sake of this argument.
The only “lot of gauntlet fights” you’ve mentioned have been void ( which I’m not going over again), bp (which once again didn’t impress me) and km, which is fair. He’s actually good for him. Not a lot to me. The SoP fights he’s actually done well at have been the easy ones from what I’ve seen so far. He may do well with the one in 15 mins. Who knows? Even in the abyss I’ve not seen a great deal from him.
And act 6 gameplay wise. He’s basically just done the easier stuff, except 6.3.5 Mysterio, and maybe other stuff here and there. That was cool. Of course, if you can showcase him on a HARD path/ fight, where there aren’t a great deal of option for (for example NOT tunnel vision and biohazard, before you get any ideas), then be my guest. Up to you. Of course difficulty is fairly subjective, and dependent on current roster, so I mean its whatever.
Once again, why am I barely seeing his vigilance being used? I need video evidence bruh, because I don’t remember him having this much uptime of no miss, in many scenarios.
The power lock rotation was very impressive. How was the power gain lasting so long? I’m really intrigued about this actually.
Also, why are you comparing him to hype? I haven’t mentioned him in any of my arguments
, or else we’d be here all year. The heal block point was nothing btw. I still think it’s not very reliable for constant heal control.
At the end of the day, this back and forth is cool, but it’ll get us no where. I don’t see any minds being changed, and I’ve got a SoP boss to check out. Respond if you want tho.
Then cgr , hyperion , cmm and hercules.
Regarding buff control, the point is that he can manage such a buff heavy fight, even though some are getting through. And as shown in the Luke Cage video, I didn't even perform the rotation to perfection. It could have been done better. How many buffs get through in that Luke cage solo? Hint: Happy Mcmuffins is a much better player than I.
With the power booster, you said you were no longer impressed because I used a power booster on void, yet in the same post said lots of champions can do 6.2 champion with a power booster. You see the disconnect?
Re: Gauntlet. I used him on my team and used him for Vision, Weapon X, 25% of Korg, BPCW, Domino, Apoc, Killmonger, Apocalypse and Void. Considering I had Quake on my team, using any champion for 9/20 champions seems like he's handling himself pretty well. I didn't even use quake that much.
With the abyss, he's done solos of Omega, IMIW, Ghost, Luke Cage that I've seen. Lagacy also used him to take half of Killmonger which is a pretty decent dent, he managed to get Quake 25% down in the first set of abyss charges before getting KOd, so on track for 50% there too. Just search CGR abyss if you want to check them out. There was also a youtuber Simula, who brought CGR for his path 2 and said he worked great for Punisher 2099, Korg, Luke Cage and IMIW.
Here's the thing with act 6, with the way you've been answering most of my points I get the feeling if I took any act 6 path you'd probably just say eh, there are harder ones, he's not great for it, look what you did wrong there. So feel free to suggest a few that you think are difficult but could prove the lack of CGR's utility.
I literally just now went and tested his vigilance buff, and on tunnel vision you can go parry, LLMLM, MLLLL, heavy into special 2 and the vigilance is still lasting during the special attack. If you'd like proof feel free to add me on Line and I can send you a video of it. My ID is bittersteel99. That was only one rotation I tested in any case, I feel like there could be better ones, I will do more testing. I'm thinking heavy attack until a special 1, dex, and then end with medium for a super long one.
Regarding the power gain being so long, each subsequent judgement increases buff duration by 20%, and any triggered after the 5th judgement gets 200% increased duration. So you get an incredibly long power gain that gets you right back up to an SP3, or you can hold off a combo and go for a huge SP2. That's what I mean about the Doom Cycle-esque mechanic he has. Do you admit that 3.1m damage before the opponent gets an sp3 is pretty good utility for a power lock? I'm genuinely curious how much evidence you need to concede that CGR has utility
How is it not a good heal block? You literally have debuffs on the opponent enough to block out healing all the time. MSD proved that's useful by soloing abyss deadpool with Overseer.
You say this back and forth is going nowhere, but it really just feels like I am putting forward use after use of CGR's utility, uses in end game content, and you go yeahhh that's true, but he still has no utility.