How does a 2022 champ have such little in there kit?
These are Champs that new Players are more likely to obtain
You know Deadpool x force is actually rare don't you?
He hasn't been in 5* crystals till 2 months ago. So no. He is not more likely to be obtained. He's in 6* but that's not something newer players are going to get.
Why are new players getting 5-Stars? We're talking about 2 and 3 Stars, Champs from PHCs and Daily Crystals.
For the content they're using 2*s and 3*s the prebuff will suffice. He could actually deal damage with his sp2 prebuff. I ranked my 4* back then to do content
Buffs are not just for Veterans, and they should not be. Sometimes we're going to update Champs to make earlier content easier for new Players. This isn't new, and something we've been doing since the very beginning of the Buff process. I'm not sure why there were such high expectations for Deadpool, but
How does a 2022 champ have such little in there kit?
Deadpool is not a 2022 Champion, he's from 2015. This game continues to get more complex with every month that passes, and while that's to be expected, we do not want to add even more complexity to the early game through Champion updates.
This is why we kept Storm's kit simple, and it's why we did it with Deadpool. These are Champs that new Players are more likely to obtain and use, and we want to keep their kits more simple.
A clarifying question: why are Storm and DPX more likely to be obtained by early stage players? At this stage, isn’t every champ obtainable at the 5* rarity also obtainable in PHC?
Dr. Zola
There's a very limited selection of 2-Star Champions available in the PHC, including both Storm and Deadpool X Force. Early progression Daily Crystals also only contain Champions released before X year, with the year increasing as you progress further. Early players are getting Champs from 2014/15 at the start.
But once again 2 star champions are not used enough to justify this argument. You speak as if 2 star champions are used for over a month at the start but in reality by end of day 1 you can have close to a full team of 3* champions which makes your entire argument invalid as that instantly opens up the world new champions with books in their kit page. A new player will not notice the difference between a very good champion and a bad one, they get trough the content they need to regardless of which champion it is. Balancing champions around act 1 and 2 is not reasonable. They dont need to be balanced around act 7 but an updated champion in 2022 should not have the kit of a 2017 champion regardless of when they were realsed, because then you might aswell keep them unbuffed since the change is so insignificant.
2 Stars are used for much longer than you're indicating here. This isn't about balancing around Acts 1 and 2, but around the complexity of Champions for new users. New users also aren't only doing Acts 1 and 2. There is a world of Content after that. You cannot apply your advanced and veteran knowledge to a new player.
We are not going to add complexity to the early game through Balance updates. We are not going to make every Champion a top tier Champ through Balance updates. We are going to continue to update champions in a manner that we are comfortable with, and that will include Champions that are both older and newer. Some will get bigger updates than others.
I continue to not understand why you, in particular, have such disdain for community feedback and will double-down on misses rather than admit the majority of the player base is not happy with the product you released (Guillotine, anyone?).
Explain to me how you rationalize business decisions and engineering/development time spent that does not have a positive ROI. What are your KPIs for buffs?
Most of the time this all seems very personal for you. It shouldn’t be.
Makes you wonder if forum feedback ever goes up the chain to designers and the powers that be…
Oh, it does. Those same designers also pop in when they have time. It's important to note that feedback might be heard, but it's not always the goal of these reworks that they become the next favorite thing. Not that they don't care about what we think, just that there are our goals, and their goals, and they aren't always lined up.
Then why even waste their time with this? If majority of the players don’t care about the end result and won’t use the buffed champ then the whole buff program can be scrapped and resources reallocated to something else. Doing something that’s useless is almost as good as not doing it at all.
2 Stars are used for much longer than you're indicating here. This isn't about balancing around Acts 1 and 2, but around the complexity of Champions for new users. New users also aren't only doing Acts 1 and 2. There is a world of Content after that. You cannot apply your advanced and veteran knowledge to a new player.
We are not going to add complexity to the early game through Balance updates. We are not going to make every Champion a top tier Champ through Balance updates. We are going to continue to update champions in a manner that we are comfortable with, and that will include Champions that are both older and newer. Some will get bigger updates than others.
That would be fine if you didn’t decrease the amount of buffs we get per year by like 400%. New players don’t know the difference between their two star champs, and a bit later when they start understanding character abilities they’ll move right past their two star DPX and start investing in more powerful 3 and 4 star champions. However, veteran players look forward to these buffs, and even more so now than when we were getting 2-3 a month. So we’d appreciate if the buffed champs actually gained some good abilities that made them useable for every player not just new players.
Dpx is going to go the way of the majority of buffs recently. Excited to try them out, realize nothing much has changed and then completely forget there were ever buffed because they just aren't good.
me, with Guillotine:
I haven't used her since.
Even in content where I could get away with using anybody, I don't even give her a glance.
Stop complaining guys... few months ago Kabam was almost fully abandoning the buff-program so should be glad that they got back on the buff-track. Agree that they have derailed a bit with the DXP Buff but shouldn't expect Kabam to come with a Diablo/Moleman type of buff every single month. Otherwise there would be nothing for us to **** and complain about.... well other than input issues, bugs, dimming, parry not working, more bugs, freezing, network issues, loading issues, silent nerfs, compensation, silent AI changes, rigged crystals and even more bugs after every single update/hotfix...LOL
Thank you.
We aren't expecting a diablo/moleman buff every month, we are expecting that for any month.
Nah. Kabam has managed to ruin the one thing I used to be most excited for. Fewer buffs and the quality of the buffs has gone way down. That's an awful combo.
Nah. Kabam has managed to ruin the one thing I used to be most excited for. Fewer buffs and the quality of the buffs has gone way down. That's an awful combo.
I used to be excited every single month and hope beyond hope that one of the champs I had as a 6* would be buffed.
Now, I really just hope they don’t get buffed because at least there’s a chance the program will change back in future and continue doing good buffs.
I have a daredevil classic 6* with a high enough sig that he has a 100% chance to evade. I love daredevil, I think he’s awesome, it’s a great nostalgia champ to have and I had some expiring sigs.
With the old program I was so hyped in case he got a buff, because then he’d be as cool as he used to be back in the days of 5.2 Collector. Now, I’m so worried he will get a buff that got rid of his sig, and replaced it with taunt or some other singular utility that I just don’t want him, or any other champion I liked to get buffed.
Imagine a buff program that you hope doesn’t choose the champs you like to be buffed.
How does a 2022 champ have such little in there kit?
These are Champs that new Players are more likely to obtain
You know Deadpool x force is actually rare don't you?
He hasn't been in 5* crystals till 2 months ago. So no. He is not more likely to be obtained. He's in 6* but that's not something newer players are going to get.
Why are new players getting 5-Stars? We're talking about 2 and 3 Stars, Champs from PHCs and Daily Crystals.
For the content they're using 2*s and 3*s the prebuff will suffice. He could actually deal damage with his sp2 prebuff. I ranked my 4* back then to do content
Buffs are not just for Veterans, and they should not be. Sometimes we're going to update Champs to make earlier content easier for new Players. This isn't new, and something we've been doing since the very beginning of the Buff process. I'm not sure why there were such high expectations for Deadpool, but
How does a 2022 champ have such little in there kit?
Deadpool is not a 2022 Champion, he's from 2015. This game continues to get more complex with every month that passes, and while that's to be expected, we do not want to add even more complexity to the early game through Champion updates.
This is why we kept Storm's kit simple, and it's why we did it with Deadpool. These are Champs that new Players are more likely to obtain and use, and we want to keep their kits more simple.
A clarifying question: why are Storm and DPX more likely to be obtained by early stage players? At this stage, isn’t every champ obtainable at the 5* rarity also obtainable in PHC?
Dr. Zola
There's a very limited selection of 2-Star Champions available in the PHC, including both Storm and Deadpool X Force. Early progression Daily Crystals also only contain Champions released before X year, with the year increasing as you progress further. Early players are getting Champs from 2014/15 at the start.
But once again 2 star champions are not used enough to justify this argument. You speak as if 2 star champions are used for over a month at the start but in reality by end of day 1 you can have close to a full team of 3* champions which makes your entire argument invalid as that instantly opens up the world new champions with books in their kit page. A new player will not notice the difference between a very good champion and a bad one, they get trough the content they need to regardless of which champion it is. Balancing champions around act 1 and 2 is not reasonable. They dont need to be balanced around act 7 but an updated champion in 2022 should not have the kit of a 2017 champion regardless of when they were realsed, because then you might aswell keep them unbuffed since the change is so insignificant.
2 Stars are used for much longer than you're indicating here. This isn't about balancing around Acts 1 and 2, but around the complexity of Champions for new users. New users also aren't only doing Acts 1 and 2. There is a world of Content after that. You cannot apply your advanced and veteran knowledge to a new player.
We are not going to add complexity to the early game through Balance updates. We are not going to make every Champion a top tier Champ through Balance updates. We are going to continue to update champions in a manner that we are comfortable with, and that will include Champions that are both older and newer. Some will get bigger updates than others.
I continue to not understand why you, in particular, have such disdain for community feedback and will double-down on misses rather than admit the majority of the player base is not happy with the product you released (Guillotine, anyone?).
Explain to me how you rationalize business decisions and engineering/development time spent that does not have a positive ROI. What are your KPIs for buffs?
Most of the time this all seems very personal for you. It shouldn’t be.
Makes you wonder if forum feedback ever goes up the chain to designers and the powers that be…
Oh, it does. Those same designers also pop in when they have time. It's important to note that feedback might be heard, but it's not always the goal of these reworks that they become the next favorite thing. Not that they don't care about what we think, just that there are our goals, and their goals, and they aren't always lined up.
Then why even waste their time with this? If majority of the players don’t care about the end result and won’t use the buffed champ then the whole buff program can be scrapped and resources reallocated to something else. Doing something that’s useless is almost as good as not doing it at all.
The Forum doesn't speak for the majority of the Players.
My son started playing this game recently, and used 2* champs for like 2 days before he started getting 3*s, and then probably 3-4 days after that got his first 4*, then a week after that got a 5* with casual playing.... So in the span of a week and a half he completely ignored 2* champs all together. The argument Kabam Miike keeps putting out about the importance of 2* champs is so tone deaf... 2* champs.... are.... not.......... important......
My son started playing this game recently, and used 2* champs for like 2 days before he started getting 3*s, and then probably 3-4 days after that got his first 4*, then a week after that got a 5* with casual playing.... So in the span of a week and a half he completely ignored 2* champs all together. The argument Kabam Miike keeps putting out about the importance of 2* champs is so tone deaf... 2* champs.... are.... not.......... important......
I created a new account to build some units with last year, and now bearing in mind I’m already familiar with the mechanics, but I got my first 3* in something like 2 or 3 hours. You also get a Phc for joining which includes the entire base pool of 4*.
I just really wish they’d stop trying to pull the wool over our eyes, and if this isn’t them trying to pull the wool over our eyes then this speaks volumes about some really fundamental issues about the perceived progression curve of players.
If a player decides they want to get an introductory offer, which I dare say many do, they’re already using 4* by the end of the first day, the whole argument is a farce. Taunts aren’t even relevant until sp3 are active so late Act 4, possibly even Act 5, and frankly I don’t think I’ve ever thought oh the piece of simple utility I’m looking for is a taunt. I’d look for a power lock/drain first and only if that’s not an option would I think about taunts - eg that 1% regen poison Red Hulk in 6.1 that basically needs She Hulk for.
Big fail on both. Expecting something exciting with Deadpool and this month event and both are a total dud. I always look forward to champs buff and excited to play them with new features and damage but the only thing cool was Deadpools new animation but that was short lived as I only played him a few rounds as I had no use for him since he was so limited still. This whole month seems like with will be a drag again. Weak side event too.
DPX should have his basic attack bleeds stack to 5, one bleed per hit on his combo, the sp2 should do armor breaks and an incinerate since it ends with a grenade explosion, the sp3 does a stun, why, he shoots you with a desert eagle .50 caliber weapon, should do a juicy crit bleed or passive deep wound like Punisher, and regen doesn’t matter that much to me but it is Deadpool which is what he is iconic for, that could have been his Signature ability… anyway those are my thoughts on it, I do love his new animations and it’s disappointing that his kit doesn’t have the pizazz to match.
How does a 2022 champ have such little in there kit?
These are Champs that new Players are more likely to obtain
You know Deadpool x force is actually rare don't you?
He hasn't been in 5* crystals till 2 months ago. So no. He is not more likely to be obtained. He's in 6* but that's not something newer players are going to get.
Why are new players getting 5-Stars? We're talking about 2 and 3 Stars, Champs from PHCs and Daily Crystals.
For the content they're using 2*s and 3*s the prebuff will suffice. He could actually deal damage with his sp2 prebuff. I ranked my 4* back then to do content
Buffs are not just for Veterans, and they should not be. Sometimes we're going to update Champs to make earlier content easier for new Players. This isn't new, and something we've been doing since the very beginning of the Buff process. I'm not sure why there were such high expectations for Deadpool, but
How does a 2022 champ have such little in there kit?
Deadpool is not a 2022 Champion, he's from 2015. This game continues to get more complex with every month that passes, and while that's to be expected, we do not want to add even more complexity to the early game through Champion updates.
This is why we kept Storm's kit simple, and it's why we did it with Deadpool. These are Champs that new Players are more likely to obtain and use, and we want to keep their kits more simple.
A clarifying question: why are Storm and DPX more likely to be obtained by early stage players? At this stage, isn’t every champ obtainable at the 5* rarity also obtainable in PHC?
Dr. Zola
There's a very limited selection of 2-Star Champions available in the PHC, including both Storm and Deadpool X Force. Early progression Daily Crystals also only contain Champions released before X year, with the year increasing as you progress further. Early players are getting Champs from 2014/15 at the start.
But once again 2 star champions are not used enough to justify this argument. You speak as if 2 star champions are used for over a month at the start but in reality by end of day 1 you can have close to a full team of 3* champions which makes your entire argument invalid as that instantly opens up the world new champions with books in their kit page. A new player will not notice the difference between a very good champion and a bad one, they get trough the content they need to regardless of which champion it is. Balancing champions around act 1 and 2 is not reasonable. They dont need to be balanced around act 7 but an updated champion in 2022 should not have the kit of a 2017 champion regardless of when they were realsed, because then you might aswell keep them unbuffed since the change is so insignificant.
2 Stars are used for much longer than you're indicating here. This isn't about balancing around Acts 1 and 2, but around the complexity of Champions for new users. New users also aren't only doing Acts 1 and 2. There is a world of Content after that. You cannot apply your advanced and veteran knowledge to a new player.
We are not going to add complexity to the early game through Balance updates. We are not going to make every Champion a top tier Champ through Balance updates. We are going to continue to update champions in a manner that we are comfortable with, and that will include Champions that are both older and newer. Some will get bigger updates than others.
I continue to not understand why you, in particular, have such disdain for community feedback and will double-down on misses rather than admit the majority of the player base is not happy with the product you released (Guillotine, anyone?).
Explain to me how you rationalize business decisions and engineering/development time spent that does not have a positive ROI. What are your KPIs for buffs?
Most of the time this all seems very personal for you. It shouldn’t be.
Makes you wonder if forum feedback ever goes up the chain to designers and the powers that be…
Oh, it does. Those same designers also pop in when they have time. It's important to note that feedback might be heard, but it's not always the goal of these reworks that they become the next favorite thing. Not that they don't care about what we think, just that there are our goals, and their goals, and they aren't always lined up.
Then why even waste their time with this? If majority of the players don’t care about the end result and won’t use the buffed champ then the whole buff program can be scrapped and resources reallocated to something else. Doing something that’s useless is almost as good as not doing it at all.
The Forum doesn't speak for the majority of the Players.
Did I ever mention that the forum speaks for the majority of the players? You always try and find a deeper meaning and miss the main point.
You actually spoke for the majority when you said "the majority of the players don't care about the end result".
Cherry pick much? Why did you not include the ‘if’? Did you miss where I said ‘if the majority of the players don’t care about the end result’?
Taking out the word "if", or adding it, doesn't change the fact that you were speaking for the majority of Players, and it doesn't change the fact that not all buffs are aimed at making Players in later stages happy.
Seriously!! Read the 2 sentences below carefully and tell me you don’t see any difference. 1. If majority don’t like it, don’t do it. 2. Majority don’t like it don’t do it.
If you think they are both the same, then I give up. You can continue on with your tirade.
"If" they only made decisions based on popularity, the game would be in shambles.
Again, pure and baseless conjecture on your part.
We calls these "opinions" and you have this really bad habit of stating yours like they are facts and then attacking other people for / being dismissive of theirs.
But again, I don't necessarily disagree with you. This is not a popularity contest, it's a business. Businesses usually make decisions based upon data. That's why I keep asking what business data leads Kabam to continue to spend valuable development time on these "buffs for new players" or however KM is spinning the bad ones. As many others have pointed, actually using this Dev time to help fix the game seems like a better ROI for the company.
I think they have in-game data that tells them the good buffs add real value to their bottom line and don't think they have any data that suggests the "bad" (a little subjective, but use rank up and playtime data to see the ones that have had very little impact on usage) is doing the same.
So what's your counter-argument to this logic? I'm genuinely interested how the company could view these as still providing value in some way and not a waste of X number of dev sprints that could have been used to actually improve some aspect of the game.
These judgements of "good and bad" buffs are based on popularity. If you left it to that, each one wouldn't meet its goal. They would likely be overshot. Their goals aren't really about remarketing older Champs and helping the "bottom line". They have data, and they also have data for when they've set the bar too high for these. Players see it as the newest OP Champ. That's not necessarily what they see. These have a very specific goal in mind, and it's not about "good and bad". It's about minimal to moderate changes that provide some new use for these Champs given the current goals and meta. It's not just so people sitting on a Roster of 6*s can dust them off.
But you also have to admit that a large proportion of the most invested number of the player base does not get excited for the current buff program.
And if you’re not even occasionally catering for the most invested, they will be disillusioned and disappointed with the program. We haven’t had a high quality buff in terms of end game usability in over 6 months. If I made a poll right now about whether people are satisfied with the buff program, I don’t think it would be majority favourable opinions. Not the entire player base, but a portion of the player base that cares enough to visit a forum daily. They matter too.
Before you say it, nobody is asking for consistently OP buffs. Nobody is even asking for Op buffs. We would just like a buff for a champ that makes you think, damn they’re a no brainer to R3 - like Ultron, Diablo, Falcon. None of whom are OP.
If Kabam want to only make buffs that are less impactful from now on, ok, disappointing but sure. It’s their game, they can decide that. But they need to make that very clear, or they’re unnecessarily building expectations. So far, this new program has been pretty underwhelming from the further on in the game perspective. We are all hoping for a good buff eventually, but right now it’s month after month of poor buffs from our perspective. I get your point on Kabams perspective and agree. But this isn’t just a game for Kabam. Eventually we hope that we will be “thrown a bone” from this program. It’s disappointing to expect otherwise.
How does a 2022 champ have such little in there kit?
These are Champs that new Players are more likely to obtain
You know Deadpool x force is actually rare don't you?
He hasn't been in 5* crystals till 2 months ago. So no. He is not more likely to be obtained. He's in 6* but that's not something newer players are going to get.
Why are new players getting 5-Stars? We're talking about 2 and 3 Stars, Champs from PHCs and Daily Crystals.
For the content they're using 2*s and 3*s the prebuff will suffice. He could actually deal damage with his sp2 prebuff. I ranked my 4* back then to do content
Buffs are not just for Veterans, and they should not be. Sometimes we're going to update Champs to make earlier content easier for new Players. This isn't new, and something we've been doing since the very beginning of the Buff process. I'm not sure why there were such high expectations for Deadpool, but
How does a 2022 champ have such little in there kit?
Deadpool is not a 2022 Champion, he's from 2015. This game continues to get more complex with every month that passes, and while that's to be expected, we do not want to add even more complexity to the early game through Champion updates.
This is why we kept Storm's kit simple, and it's why we did it with Deadpool. These are Champs that new Players are more likely to obtain and use, and we want to keep their kits more simple.
A clarifying question: why are Storm and DPX more likely to be obtained by early stage players? At this stage, isn’t every champ obtainable at the 5* rarity also obtainable in PHC?
Dr. Zola
There's a very limited selection of 2-Star Champions available in the PHC, including both Storm and Deadpool X Force. Early progression Daily Crystals also only contain Champions released before X year, with the year increasing as you progress further. Early players are getting Champs from 2014/15 at the start.
But once again 2 star champions are not used enough to justify this argument. You speak as if 2 star champions are used for over a month at the start but in reality by end of day 1 you can have close to a full team of 3* champions which makes your entire argument invalid as that instantly opens up the world new champions with books in their kit page. A new player will not notice the difference between a very good champion and a bad one, they get trough the content they need to regardless of which champion it is. Balancing champions around act 1 and 2 is not reasonable. They dont need to be balanced around act 7 but an updated champion in 2022 should not have the kit of a 2017 champion regardless of when they were realsed, because then you might aswell keep them unbuffed since the change is so insignificant.
2 Stars are used for much longer than you're indicating here. This isn't about balancing around Acts 1 and 2, but around the complexity of Champions for new users. New users also aren't only doing Acts 1 and 2. There is a world of Content after that. You cannot apply your advanced and veteran knowledge to a new player.
We are not going to add complexity to the early game through Balance updates. We are not going to make every Champion a top tier Champ through Balance updates. We are going to continue to update champions in a manner that we are comfortable with, and that will include Champions that are both older and newer. Some will get bigger updates than others.
I continue to not understand why you, in particular, have such disdain for community feedback and will double-down on misses rather than admit the majority of the player base is not happy with the product you released (Guillotine, anyone?).
Explain to me how you rationalize business decisions and engineering/development time spent that does not have a positive ROI. What are your KPIs for buffs?
Most of the time this all seems very personal for you. It shouldn’t be.
Makes you wonder if forum feedback ever goes up the chain to designers and the powers that be…
Oh, it does. Those same designers also pop in when they have time. It's important to note that feedback might be heard, but it's not always the goal of these reworks that they become the next favorite thing. Not that they don't care about what we think, just that there are our goals, and their goals, and they aren't always lined up.
Then why even waste their time with this? If majority of the players don’t care about the end result and won’t use the buffed champ then the whole buff program can be scrapped and resources reallocated to something else. Doing something that’s useless is almost as good as not doing it at all.
The Forum doesn't speak for the majority of the Players.
Did I ever mention that the forum speaks for the majority of the players? You always try and find a deeper meaning and miss the main point.
How does a 2022 champ have such little in there kit?
These are Champs that new Players are more likely to obtain
You know Deadpool x force is actually rare don't you?
He hasn't been in 5* crystals till 2 months ago. So no. He is not more likely to be obtained. He's in 6* but that's not something newer players are going to get.
Why are new players getting 5-Stars? We're talking about 2 and 3 Stars, Champs from PHCs and Daily Crystals.
For the content they're using 2*s and 3*s the prebuff will suffice. He could actually deal damage with his sp2 prebuff. I ranked my 4* back then to do content
Buffs are not just for Veterans, and they should not be. Sometimes we're going to update Champs to make earlier content easier for new Players. This isn't new, and something we've been doing since the very beginning of the Buff process. I'm not sure why there were such high expectations for Deadpool, but
How does a 2022 champ have such little in there kit?
Deadpool is not a 2022 Champion, he's from 2015. This game continues to get more complex with every month that passes, and while that's to be expected, we do not want to add even more complexity to the early game through Champion updates.
This is why we kept Storm's kit simple, and it's why we did it with Deadpool. These are Champs that new Players are more likely to obtain and use, and we want to keep their kits more simple.
A clarifying question: why are Storm and DPX more likely to be obtained by early stage players? At this stage, isn’t every champ obtainable at the 5* rarity also obtainable in PHC?
Dr. Zola
There's a very limited selection of 2-Star Champions available in the PHC, including both Storm and Deadpool X Force. Early progression Daily Crystals also only contain Champions released before X year, with the year increasing as you progress further. Early players are getting Champs from 2014/15 at the start.
But once again 2 star champions are not used enough to justify this argument. You speak as if 2 star champions are used for over a month at the start but in reality by end of day 1 you can have close to a full team of 3* champions which makes your entire argument invalid as that instantly opens up the world new champions with books in their kit page. A new player will not notice the difference between a very good champion and a bad one, they get trough the content they need to regardless of which champion it is. Balancing champions around act 1 and 2 is not reasonable. They dont need to be balanced around act 7 but an updated champion in 2022 should not have the kit of a 2017 champion regardless of when they were realsed, because then you might aswell keep them unbuffed since the change is so insignificant.
2 Stars are used for much longer than you're indicating here. This isn't about balancing around Acts 1 and 2, but around the complexity of Champions for new users. New users also aren't only doing Acts 1 and 2. There is a world of Content after that. You cannot apply your advanced and veteran knowledge to a new player.
We are not going to add complexity to the early game through Balance updates. We are not going to make every Champion a top tier Champ through Balance updates. We are going to continue to update champions in a manner that we are comfortable with, and that will include Champions that are both older and newer. Some will get bigger updates than others.
I continue to not understand why you, in particular, have such disdain for community feedback and will double-down on misses rather than admit the majority of the player base is not happy with the product you released (Guillotine, anyone?).
Explain to me how you rationalize business decisions and engineering/development time spent that does not have a positive ROI. What are your KPIs for buffs?
Most of the time this all seems very personal for you. It shouldn’t be.
Makes you wonder if forum feedback ever goes up the chain to designers and the powers that be…
Oh, it does. Those same designers also pop in when they have time. It's important to note that feedback might be heard, but it's not always the goal of these reworks that they become the next favorite thing. Not that they don't care about what we think, just that there are our goals, and their goals, and they aren't always lined up.
Then why even waste their time with this? If majority of the players don’t care about the end result and won’t use the buffed champ then the whole buff program can be scrapped and resources reallocated to something else. Doing something that’s useless is almost as good as not doing it at all.
The Forum doesn't speak for the majority of the Players.
Did I ever mention that the forum speaks for the majority of the players? You always try and find a deeper meaning and miss the main point.
You actually spoke for the majority when you said "the majority of the players don't care about the end result".
Cherry pick much? Why did you not include the ‘if’? Did you miss where I said ‘if the majority of the players don’t care about the end result’?
Taking out the word "if", or adding it, doesn't change the fact that you were speaking for the majority of Players, and it doesn't change the fact that not all buffs are aimed at making Players in later stages happy.
Seriously!! Read the 2 sentences below carefully and tell me you don’t see any difference. 1. If majority don’t like it, don’t do it. 2. Majority don’t like it don’t do it.
If you think they are both the same, then I give up. You can continue on with your tirade.
"If" they only made decisions based on popularity, the game would be in shambles.
Again, pure and baseless conjecture on your part.
We calls these "opinions" and you have this really bad habit of stating yours like they are facts and then attacking other people for / being dismissive of theirs.
But again, I don't necessarily disagree with you. This is not a popularity contest, it's a business. Businesses usually make decisions based upon data. That's why I keep asking what business data leads Kabam to continue to spend valuable development time on these "buffs for new players" or however KM is spinning the bad ones. As many others have pointed, actually using this Dev time to help fix the game seems like a better ROI for the company.
I think they have in-game data that tells them the good buffs add real value to their bottom line and don't think they have any data that suggests the "bad" (a little subjective, but use rank up and playtime data to see the ones that have had very little impact on usage) is doing the same.
So what's your counter-argument to this logic? I'm genuinely interested how the company could view these as still providing value in some way and not a waste of X number of dev sprints that could have been used to actually improve some aspect of the game.
These judgements of "good and bad" buffs are based on popularity. If you left it to that, each one wouldn't meet its goal. They would likely be overshot. Their goals aren't really about remarketing older Champs and helping the "bottom line". They have data, and they also have data for when they've set the bar too high for these. Players see it as the newest OP Champ. That's not necessarily what they see. These have a very specific goal in mind, and it's not about "good and bad". It's about minimal to moderate changes that provide some new use for these Champs given the current goals and meta. It's not just so people sitting on a Roster of 6*s can dust them off.
But you also have to admit that a large proportion of the most invested number of the player base does not get excited for the current buff program.
And if you’re not even occasionally catering for the most invested, they will be disillusioned and disappointed with the program. We haven’t had a high quality buff in terms of end game usability in over 6 months. If I made a poll right now about whether people are satisfied with the buff program, I don’t think it would be majority favourable opinions. Not the entire player base, but a portion of the player base that cares enough to visit a forum daily. They matter too.
Before you say it, nobody is asking for consistently OP buffs. Nobody is even asking for Op buffs. We would just like a buff for a champ that makes you think, damn they’re a no brainer to R3 - like Ultron, Diablo, Falcon. None of whom are OP.
If Kabam want to only make buffs that are less impactful from now on, ok, disappointing but sure. It’s their game, they can decide that. But they need to make that very clear, or they’re unnecessarily building expectations. So far, this new program has been pretty underwhelming from the further on in the game perspective. We are all hoping for a good buff eventually, but right now it’s month after month of poor buffs from our perspective. I get your point on Kabams perspective and agree. But this isn’t just a game for Kabam. Eventually we hope that we will be “thrown a bone” from this program. It’s disappointing to expect otherwise.
We also need to take into account the fact that the Marvel universe is something that people of all ages have become heavily invested in. For players like me this game was the Segway into appreciating the universe beyond the MCU, while I dare say the slightly older demographic grew up on the comics themselves which is why they have a greater appreciation for the more niche characters. — I think that it’s a real disappointment that any character comes out of the factory in the state of DPX’s original state, but he’s barely playable and ultimately there needs to be a longer view on character usage from Kabam because saying that this is a character aimed at new players who are going to use him as a 2* out of their first PHC then should he be removed from the 4/5/6* pools as they’re essentially saying he’s useless once a player is on 4*+
@Mauled completely agree. Imagine OG iron man getting a buff, pretty much the face of the MCU, and he just gets a power drain on heavy added to him. That’s pretty much what happened to Deadpool, one of the most loved marvel characters.
@Mauled completely agree. Imagine OG iron man getting a buff, pretty much the face of the MCU, and he just gets a power drain on heavy added to him. That’s pretty much what happened to Deadpool, one of the most loved marvel characters.
Yep, quite short sighted really. Before I knew who was good/bad, my most wanted team was a combination of the Avengers and Spider-Man and Deadpool because that’s what I’d seen. I actually assumed I’d have to work with the more niche characters before I was able to obtain the headline acts. Now obviously this isn’t the case, but for the casuals out there I doubt it’s an uncommon viewpoint. Now if I’d got my OG Ironman or DPX at a high rarity early on and he sucked, making the game a bit less enjoyable, who’s to say they’re going to continue playing?
It's probably worth noting that Miike was accurate in saying that not all newer Players are graduating to higher Rarities as fast as people think. Some are just playing at their own pace. It doesn't always go as fast as content rushers on their Alts. I understand that people are disappointed, but I also feel there are some valid points mentioned that are perhaps overlooked.
Many of us are Gamers. We pick up the game, get extremely motivated, do research, and advance quickly. Some are picking a game up like this for the first time. They're learning and having fun at a different pace.
It's probably worth noting that Miike was accurate in saying that not all newer Players are graduating to higher Rarities as fast as people think. Some are just playing at their own pace. It doesn't always go as fast as content rushers on their Alts. I understand that people are disappointed, but I also feel there are some valid points mentioned that are perhaps overlooked.
How was he accurate? I don't recall him giving us any data.
It's probably worth noting that Miike was accurate in saying that not all newer Players are graduating to higher Rarities as fast as people think. Some are just playing at their own pace. It doesn't always go as fast as content rushers on their Alts. I understand that people are disappointed, but I also feel there are some valid points mentioned that are perhaps overlooked.
If you’re talking about raw time with the game on your phone I’d agree. I dare say there’s a fair few people who download the game and play it for 15 minutes at a time and take a week or two to get through Act 1, but I’m terms of their actual game time they’re still going to be outgrowing 2/3* at a similar rate. You get your first 3* inside 3 hours of playing, if you buy anything you get your first 4 or 5* pretty much immediately.
It's probably worth noting that Miike was accurate in saying that not all newer Players are graduating to higher Rarities as fast as people think. Some are just playing at their own pace. It doesn't always go as fast as content rushers on their Alts. I understand that people are disappointed, but I also feel there are some valid points mentioned that are perhaps overlooked.
How was he accurate? I don't recall him giving us any data.
You don't need to provide data for a statement like that. You just have to look past our own noses. Not everyone is seeing things as we see them.
The "new player" thing is just a strawman. The buff program was in response to a complaint about ever increasing difficulty and a pool of useless champs to tackle it. The problems with champions doesn't really become apparent to Act 6, where counterplay becomes the prevalant design for challenges. It isn't a new player problem.
Any "buff" that doesn't make a champion desirable for cav+ is a waste of time and resources.
Comments
We are not going to add complexity to the early game through Balance updates. We are not going to make every Champion a top tier Champ through Balance updates. We are going to continue to update champions in a manner that we are comfortable with, and that will include Champions that are both older and newer. Some will get bigger updates than others.
That would be fine if you didn’t decrease the amount of buffs we get per year by like 400%. New players don’t know the difference between their two star champs, and a bit later when they start understanding character abilities they’ll move right past their two star DPX and start investing in more powerful 3 and 4 star champions. However, veteran players look forward to these buffs, and even more so now than when we were getting 2-3 a month. So we’d appreciate if the buffed champs actually gained some good abilities that made them useable for every player not just new players.
I haven't used her since.
Even in content where I could get away with using anybody, I don't even give her a glance.
Now, I really just hope they don’t get buffed because at least there’s a chance the program will change back in future and continue doing good buffs.
I have a daredevil classic 6* with a high enough sig that he has a 100% chance to evade. I love daredevil, I think he’s awesome, it’s a great nostalgia champ to have and I had some expiring sigs.
With the old program I was so hyped in case he got a buff, because then he’d be as cool as he used to be back in the days of 5.2 Collector. Now, I’m so worried he will get a buff that got rid of his sig, and replaced it with taunt or some other singular utility that I just don’t want him, or any other champion I liked to get buffed.
Imagine a buff program that you hope doesn’t choose the champs you like to be buffed.
The argument Kabam Miike keeps putting out about the importance of 2* champs is so tone deaf...
2* champs.... are.... not.......... important......
I just really wish they’d stop trying to pull the wool over our eyes, and if this isn’t them trying to pull the wool over our eyes then this speaks volumes about some really fundamental issues about the perceived progression curve of players.
If a player decides they want to get an introductory offer, which I dare say many do, they’re already using 4* by the end of the first day, the whole argument is a farce. Taunts aren’t even relevant until sp3 are active so late Act 4, possibly even Act 5, and frankly I don’t think I’ve ever thought oh the piece of simple utility I’m looking for is a taunt. I’d look for a power lock/drain first and only if that’s not an option would I think about taunts - eg that 1% regen poison Red Hulk in 6.1 that basically needs She Hulk for.
From the 5* crystal in the odin offer available to them the moment they start a new account.
If only we were at a casino playing Spanish 21. Because then you could double down again even though you've already done so!
And if you’re not even occasionally catering for the most invested, they will be disillusioned and disappointed with the program. We haven’t had a high quality buff in terms of end game usability in over 6 months. If I made a poll right now about whether people are satisfied with the buff program, I don’t think it would be majority favourable opinions. Not the entire player base, but a portion of the player base that cares enough to visit a forum daily. They matter too.
Before you say it, nobody is asking for consistently OP buffs. Nobody is even asking for Op buffs. We would just like a buff for a champ that makes you think, damn they’re a no brainer to R3 - like Ultron, Diablo, Falcon. None of whom are OP.
If Kabam want to only make buffs that are less impactful from now on, ok, disappointing but sure. It’s their game, they can decide that. But they need to make that very clear, or they’re unnecessarily building expectations. So far, this new program has been pretty underwhelming from the further on in the game perspective. We are all hoping for a good buff eventually, but right now it’s month after month of poor buffs from our perspective. I get your point on Kabams perspective and agree. But this isn’t just a game for Kabam. Eventually we hope that we will be “thrown a bone” from this program. It’s disappointing to expect otherwise.
No
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I think that it’s a real disappointment that any character comes out of the factory in the state of DPX’s original state, but he’s barely playable and ultimately there needs to be a longer view on character usage from Kabam because saying that this is a character aimed at new players who are going to use him as a 2* out of their first PHC then should he be removed from the 4/5/6* pools as they’re essentially saying he’s useless once a player is on 4*+
I understand that people are disappointed, but I also feel there are some valid points mentioned that are perhaps overlooked.
I don't really have a opinion on DPX, but from what I hear it's been received as "meh"
The buff program was in response to a complaint about ever increasing difficulty and a pool of useless champs to tackle it. The problems with champions doesn't really become apparent to Act 6, where counterplay becomes the prevalant design for challenges. It isn't a new player problem.
Any "buff" that doesn't make a champion desirable for cav+ is a waste of time and resources.