Wait, is this match making off prestige a legit thing? I'm about 15k, 2.4m account and get matched with 16.5k 3-4 mill accounts and accounts with half 5*... isn't it just the tier you're in? Gold 2 v gold 2. Quantum v Quantum? That's what it feels like ngl
In Victory Track matchmaking is Prestige based. Matchmaking tries to find you a match within your tier (f.e. Gold3) and within your Prestige range. At Gladiator Circuit matchmaking is tying to find opponents with similar GC points, like it is at AW.
Wait, is this match making off prestige a legit thing? I'm about 15k, 2.4m account and get matched with 16.5k 3-4 mill accounts and accounts with half 5*... isn't it just the tier you're in? Gold 2 v gold 2. Quantum v Quantum? That's what it feels like ngl
Yes matchmaking is based off prestige or pi, hasn't 100% been confirmed which. In lower tiers you will get rather similar matchups based on the prestige brackets created. As you progress to plat and diamond, either the brackets expand slightly or there may at times be bigger gaps based on availability of those similar to you at that time.
Once you get to GC, it's everyone in that tier against anyone else. This is where those who got an easy path to GC by only going against less developed rosters or players get massive wakeup calls. One dude recently posted a complaint how he lost 30 in a row in GC, but that was because he didn't have to face the strong rosters until he hit GC.
No, and if I find out someone in my alliance is avoiding the increase of their prestige on purpose while we're trying to increase our rank in AQ, we'll seriously consider replacing them.
Let me interject before my comment becomes a back-and-forth. They are not getting an easy street to the GC. We've even had Players in other Threads indicate they've made it there on skill, and encountered tougher Accounts than theirs. They were scoffed at and told to enjoy their "fair" Rewards. Yet because they never fought the highest Accounts, they don't deserve to get to the actual competitive start? Let's be real. The GC is where it begins. Not where only the elite belong. This is the problem with the assumptions made about other Accounts. Everyone is so hyperfocused on other Accounts, through their own eyes, that they claim they can speak for what's easy and what's not, for others. You have people with years of experience in the game creating Alts and calling it easy, which is not a testament to how it is for someone at that stage. It's a testament to how it is for someone going back with all the knowledge and skill they have, and playing an easier part of the game FOR THEM. Not to mention how this skews the data. The idea that people aren't being challenged to get to the GC just because comparatively they would die against much larger Accounts is quite frankly, ignorant and arrogant. It's also blind to what is a challenge for others, and what is just absurd butchering. I will adamantly disagree with the implication that people aren't being challenged to get out of the VT, just because they haven't been overkilled by the largest Accounts. Especially when the largest Accounts consider it an injustice to go against equal or stronger Accounts. That's what the whole Paragon in name comment was about. People want the Title and all the Rewards, but they want to piggy back on the weaker Accounts instead of fighting other Paragons. Please.
Imagine holding your own account back bc you're too scared to match people at your own level 😂
There are some people like that, but there's also a more general fear of the unknown happening where people are anecdotally or even experiencing match up circumstances in which lower prestige accounts are having a much easier time progressing.
Also, I don't know this for certain, I can only offer my opinion based on what I've seen, but I don't think the match system is looking for people at or even super close to your prestige. I think it is invisibly organizing players into "prestige bands" and thus if you happening to be at the bottom of one, you won't get matched against equal competition, you will be matched against statistically much stronger competition. Conversely, if you're near the top of such a grouping you will get matched against statistically weaker competition *until* you advance your prestige out of that group of players and into the next higher group. Specifically, the *bottom* of that group.
Whereupon, no matter how many times you lose, no matter how you juggle your roster, you'll be condemned to get matched against much higher competition until you completely level yourself out of that region of matching, which could be non-trivial.
Let me interject before my comment becomes a back-and-forth. They are not getting an easy street to the GC. We've even had Players in other Threads indicate they've made it there on skill, and encountered tougher Accounts than theirs. They were scoffed at and told to enjoy their "fair" Rewards. Yet because they never fought the highest Accounts, they don't deserve to get to the actual competitive start? Let's be real. The GC is where it begins. Not where only the elite belong. This is the problem with the assumptions made about other Accounts. Everyone is so hyperfocused on other Accounts, through their own eyes, that they claim they can speak for what's easy and what's not, for others. You have people with years of experience in the game creating Alts and calling it easy, which is not a testament to how it is for someone at that stage. It's a testament to how it is for someone going back with all the knowledge and skill they have, and playing an easier part of the game FOR THEM. Not to mention how this skews the data. The idea that people aren't being challenged to get to the GC just because comparatively they would die against much larger Accounts is quite frankly, ignorant and arrogant. It's also blind to what is a challenge for others, and what is just absurd butchering. I will adamantly disagree with the implication that people aren't being challenged to get out of the VT, just because they haven't been overkilled by the largest Accounts. Especially when the largest Accounts consider it an injustice to go against equal or stronger Accounts. That's what the whole Paragon in name comment was about. People want the Title and all the Rewards, but they want to piggy back on the weaker Accounts instead of fighting other Paragons. Please.
For the I don't know how many time, there were literally UC players with 5k prestige who were in GC within 1-2 weeks. They got all victory track rewards and at least some GC rewards.
There were 15-16k prestige players who couldn't get out of victory track because they fought nothing but end game players with elite end game rosters. A UC fighting a UC won't be a major roster difference and many UC aren't great at the game so a slightly above average UC will get to GC fairly easy.
Pretty much everyone at Paragon is at least above average, and many are among the absolutely best I'm the game with the absolute best rosters in the game. At Paragon level and above average players with even an average Paragon rosters or low Paragon roster will get destroyed. They will have very little chance to make it to GC. Best case is they wait until last week and hope all the end game, whales and master alliance players are already in GC. Meanwhile, that 5k UC dude been chilling in GC for weeks.
I will NEVER agree that a weaker roster should get better rewards in rank tier rewards system UNLESS that weaker roster faces or has ability to face the stronger roster. If a lower player and in many cases waaaaay lower players can't beat me, but is in tier where slightly above average gets them to GC, how can you justify them then getting better rewards than end gamers with 15k+ prestige who that much weaker roster never has to face in victory track?
I've asked you this question a dozen times on several threads and you've never given me anything close to a decent answer.
you want to handicap your account for easier matchups? bruh....
Avoiding increasing prestige isn't handicapping account at all, unless you do competing AQ, which I don't. AQ is literally the only thing in the game that rewards high prestige.
Meanwhile BG seems to use prestige to just give nothing but harder matches and again, prestige doesn't reflect how strong a roster really is.
I am still doing rankups and using sig, I'm just not doing them on any champs that would replace my current top 5 prestige.
For the record, I do not believe the match system is using literal prestige. I believe it is calculating its own "prestige" using a larger group of champions. Probably, although I don't know this for a fact it would seem logical, an amount of champions roughly equal to the size of a battleground deck.
The expressed intent was to encourage players "to use their 'best' champs." The straight forward way to do that would be to match based on the ratings of the top 30 champs in a player's roster.
you want to handicap your account for easier matchups? bruh....
Avoiding increasing prestige isn't handicapping account at all, unless you do competing AQ, which I don't. AQ is literally the only thing in the game that rewards high prestige.
Meanwhile BG seems to use prestige to just give nothing but harder matches and again, prestige doesn't reflect how strong a roster really is.
I am still doing rankups and using sig, I'm just not doing them on any champs that would replace my current top 5 prestige.
most of the newer good champs have higher prestige, and have importance in high sig. So yes, you are handicapping your account.
It really isn't much different from a Paragon hoarding shards for 3months for the next featured 6* crystal. A Cav to low TB can hoard for a month or two and then greatly upgrade their account. Especially now when there is nothing really that great for Paragon's anyway (like EOP or something like that).
no its completely different. What you said makes no sense in this context. either that or you dont wanna be at the highest progression level and are doing everything to stay away from it.
What are you talking about? Have you read the topic of this thread?
I have, and my response is such. If yo uwanna be aparagon in name only, thats just pointless.
Again, what are you talking about? What, exactly, is a "Paragon in name only"? How is hoarding shards for a new featured so much different from holding on ranking for a few months to rake in BG rewards?
You have to explain your argument.
Hoarding shards and hoarding rankup mats are totally different. one is in hope of getting new champs. one is intentional sabotage of ones account, in hopes of easier matchmaking in ONE GAME MODE. see the difference now?
Nope. Holding back your account for a short while for an ultimate bigger gain in the future. Seems pretty similar to me.
Let me interject before my comment becomes a back-and-forth. They are not getting an easy street to the GC. We've even had Players in other Threads indicate they've made it there on skill, and encountered tougher Accounts than theirs. They were scoffed at and told to enjoy their "fair" Rewards. Yet because they never fought the highest Accounts, they don't deserve to get to the actual competitive start? Let's be real. The GC is where it begins. Not where only the elite belong. This is the problem with the assumptions made about other Accounts. Everyone is so hyperfocused on other Accounts, through their own eyes, that they claim they can speak for what's easy and what's not, for others. You have people with years of experience in the game creating Alts and calling it easy, which is not a testament to how it is for someone at that stage. It's a testament to how it is for someone going back with all the knowledge and skill they have, and playing an easier part of the game FOR THEM. Not to mention how this skews the data. The idea that people aren't being challenged to get to the GC just because comparatively they would die against much larger Accounts is quite frankly, ignorant and arrogant. It's also blind to what is a challenge for others, and what is just absurd butchering. I will adamantly disagree with the implication that people aren't being challenged to get out of the VT, just because they haven't been overkilled by the largest Accounts. Especially when the largest Accounts consider it an injustice to go against equal or stronger Accounts. That's what the whole Paragon in name comment was about. People want the Title and all the Rewards, but they want to piggy back on the weaker Accounts instead of fighting other Paragons. Please.
For the I don't know how many time, there were literally UC players with 5k prestige who were in GC within 1-2 weeks. They got all victory track rewards and at least some GC rewards.
There were 15-16k prestige players who couldn't get out of victory track because they fought nothing but end game players with elite end game rosters. A UC fighting a UC won't be a major roster difference and many UC aren't great at the game so a slightly above average UC will get to GC fairly easy.
Pretty much everyone at Paragon is at least above average, and many are among the absolutely best I'm the game with the absolute best rosters in the game. At Paragon level and above average players with even an average Paragon rosters or low Paragon roster will get destroyed. They will have very little chance to make it to GC. Best case is they wait until last week and hope all the end game, whales and master alliance players are already in GC. Meanwhile, that 5k UC dude been chilling in GC for weeks.
I will NEVER agree that a weaker roster should get better rewards in rank tier rewards system UNLESS that weaker roster faces or has ability to face the stronger roster. If a lower player and in many cases waaaaay lower players can't beat me, but is in tier where slightly above average gets them to GC, how can you justify them then getting better rewards than end gamers with 15k+ prestige who that much weaker roster never has to face in victory track?
I've asked you this question a dozen times on several threads and you've never given me anything close to a decent answer.
You've totally circumnavigated my points. What justification do you have for wanting Matches with those Players against said Paragons when you argue against a closer Match like a new Paragon? You think hitting Paragon exempts people from being challenged by stronger Paragons? You keep going back to the Rewards as a reference, as if they don't deserve their Rewards from their own Matches, and your comparison is an entirely unreasonable matchup, when Paragons are arguing their Matches aren't getting them out of VT. What in the world does a lower Account getting to the GC have to do with those Accounts not playing and earning their Matches? Unless what you're lobbying for is the right to easy street Matches on the justification that Rewards are at stake. Doesn't that make you the very thing you're lobbying against? People who are newly-Paragon are going to have a hard time at first. Just like people who are newly-TB, or Cav or any other Title. The top Title doesn't exempt people from going through that. People keep flip-flopping their arguments between the Matches and the Rewards, as it suits their agenda. What I see a great deal of is bruised egos over not getting to the GC, when someone else has.
What justification do you have for wanting Matches with those Players against said Paragons when you argue against a closer Match like a new Paragon? You think hitting Paragon exempts people from being challenged by stronger Paragons?
Nobody is saying that (that I can recall). The problem is not that Paragons are facing stronger Paragons. The problem is Paragons are facing stronger Paragons while Uncollected and Cavs are overtaking them without having to challenge those same players.
You have this completely backwards. You're saying there's no justification for Paragons' to "avoid" facing stronger Paragons. But that's what lower tier players are doing. While they are getting their "fair" matches, they are being allowed to completely avoid matches other players are not allowed to avoid.
Nobody is asking for Paragon's to get special treatment. You are the only person characterizing this as Paragons asking for special treatment. *I* would be perfectly happy if *no one* got special treatment. Instead, it is the lower roster players that are getting special treatment, by being allowed to avoid stronger competition.
I'm not asking to avoid anyone. I will fight anyone. If everyone else has to. But right now, many players don't have to.
In fact, I will go farther. I would be perfectly willing to offer lower roster players special treatment. I would be perfectly happy to grant them restricted, easier match ups when they are starting out, to encourage them to participate. But when I see them pass me by, using those advantages not just to start out, but to overtake me by a mile, my generosity in extending that easy on ramp becomes extremely strained.
To repeat: the lower roster players are the ones getting special treatment. And most Paragon's aren't even asking for that special treatment to go away completely. They are just asking for it to not be so blatant that they can literally climb over them into GT at one tenth the effort while most Paragons are struggling to get half as far as them. If that's too much to ask, too bad.
That's what I'm disagreeing with. They're not getting entirely special treatment. They're winning the Matches they have. This idea that they're not supposed to get out of the VT without facing the top Paragons is not realistic. They're fighting Matches that are appropriate to what they're bringing, and unless Paragons are fighting a separate set of Nodes on top of what's Global for everyone else, they're completing the same task. Rewards are a separate issue. One that I have no issues with changing. In fact, I'm not opposing any change. What I disagree with is the lack of acknowledgement for the efforts those Players are doing with the best of what they have, just because the highest Players are boasting about their ability to obliterate them given the chance.
That's what I'm disagreeing with. They're not getting entirely special treatment. They're winning the Matches they have.
So they aren't getting special treatment, because they are winning their matches. So if I ask the devs to only match me against you, over and over again, that's fair if I win.
This idea that they're not supposed to get out of the VT without facing the top Paragons is not realistic.
This is the definition of special treatment. Why should they get to avoid those matches, but I can't? I have to fight everyone. I'm getting no special treatment. They are specifically avoiding certain matches. That's special treatment.
In this game, roster matters. Stronger roster offers an advantage. Flipping that upside down and giving lower strength rosters an advantage, because otherwise they can't compete, is itself anti-progressional. If you think this is supposed to be an IROC-Z race, then ask for the devs to reinstitute 4* Decks. Then everyone gets 5/50 champs, and no one has a roster advantage. That would eliminate the progressional advantage and make battlegrounds purely skill based. Of course, then veterans would have an experience advantage over new players, but we can solve that problem by requiring veterans to hit themselves in the face with a shovel before every match.
The devs don't seem to think everyone playing with 5/50 decks is a good idea. They don't seem to think just handing everyone the same deck is a good idea either. That's because this game is a progressional game, and roster progress should confer an advantage not a disadvantage.
Repeating over and over that the lower tier players are "earning" their rewards is a meaningless statement. Nobody "earns" something in a competition. Competitions are about winning and losing. If you want to reward effort in Battlegrounds, give them a cookie. But giving players easier weaker matches and then slow clapping when they win is not earning rewards, any more than a drinking bird beating a snail over and over again deserves to be in Celestial.
They may be doing the best they can, but the best they can should not matter in a competition. And sure, you can cap their rewards so that they cannot overtake stronger players, but then you're permanently sentencing them to weak rewards. Now, the best and the worst of them get basically the same stuff. Is that what's best for them? None of them, no matter how skilled, will ever do better than what some designer arbitrarily decides is their ceiling?
If I was a new Cav player, I would not want to be trapped in a lower division with weak rewards. I would want to be able to compete against similar strength players, sure, but when I've proven that I can beat them, I would want a shot at stronger competition with higher rewards. That's what competitions are supposed to be for.
That's what I'm disagreeing with. They're not getting entirely special treatment. They're winning the Matches they have.
So they aren't getting special treatment, because they are winning their matches. So if I ask the devs to only match me against you, over and over again, that's fair if I win.
This idea that they're not supposed to get out of the VT without facing the top Paragons is not realistic.
This is the definition of special treatment. Why should they get to avoid those matches, but I can't? I have to fight everyone. I'm getting no special treatment. They are specifically avoiding certain matches. That's special treatment.
In this game, roster matters. Stronger roster offers an advantage. Flipping that upside down and giving lower strength rosters an advantage, because otherwise they can't compete, is itself anti-progressional. If you think this is supposed to be an IROC-Z race, then ask for the devs to reinstitute 4* Decks. Then everyone gets 5/50 champs, and no one has a roster advantage. That would eliminate the progressional advantage and make battlegrounds purely skill based. Of course, then veterans would have an experience advantage over new players, but we can solve that problem by requiring veterans to hit themselves in the face with a shovel before every match.
The devs don't seem to think everyone playing with 5/50 decks is a good idea. They don't seem to think just handing everyone the same deck is a good idea either. That's because this game is a progressional game, and roster progress should confer an advantage not a disadvantage.
Repeating over and over that the lower tier players are "earning" their rewards is a meaningless statement. Nobody "earns" something in a competition. Competitions are about winning and losing. If you want to reward effort in Battlegrounds, give them a cookie. But giving players easier weaker matches and then slow clapping when they win is not earning rewards, any more than a drinking bird beating a snail over and over again deserves to be in Celestial.
They may be doing the best they can, but the best they can should not matter in a competition. And sure, you can cap their rewards so that they cannot overtake stronger players, but then you're permanently sentencing them to weak rewards. Now, the best and the worst of them get basically the same stuff. Is that what's best for them? None of them, no matter how skilled, will ever do better than what some designer arbitrarily decides is their ceiling?
If I was a new Cav player, I would not want to be trapped in a lower division with weak rewards. I would want to be able to compete against similar strength players, sure, but when I've proven that I can beat them, I would want a shot at stronger competition with higher rewards. That's what competitions are supposed to be for.
You keep asserting they're weaker Matches, but again, weaker for whom?
We might as well just agree that we have different viewpoints. There's a point I'm trying to get across and it's not being heard or accepted. Which is fine. We don't always have to agree. However, I'm not just going to sit back and stay silent because War 2.0 is not the solution.
That's what I'm disagreeing with. They're not getting entirely special treatment. They're winning the Matches they have. This idea that they're not supposed to get out of the VT without facing the top Paragons is not realistic. They're fighting Matches that are appropriate to what they're bringing, and unless Paragons are fighting a separate set of Nodes on top of what's Global for everyone else, they're completing the same task. Rewards are a separate issue. One that I have no issues with changing. In fact, I'm not opposing any change. What I disagree with is the lack of acknowledgement for the efforts those Players are doing with the best of what they have, just because the highest Players are boasting about their ability to obliterate them given the chance.
Isn’t it special treatment that they don’t have to face the competition until they get to GC? We are not talking about 3-4 tiers in VT, we are talking about 16 VT tiers plus GC. These are a lot of rewards to get by not matching the competition, who also fights for these rewards. Because my main 15.3k Prestige account that placed Platinum3 VT, got less than half trophy tokens, than my alt 10k Prestige account which reached GC from the first week without sweating a bit. No I don’t feel like my alt account worked these rewards. They were handled to me for little to no effort, compared to the effort I put on my main, to not even reach halfway that. I was winning matches at VT with the 10k Prestige account with 15k points, and I was losing matches with my main 15.3k Prestige account with 50k points at VT. The difference in competing with people that have 10k Prestige to those that have over 15k is huge. It’s a whole different world of skills and game knowledge. Anyone with a second account that does BGs, can confirm that. I don’t know know personally if I’m infuriated or not. My alt account’s free rewards help me, to the not direction. But I can surely say I’m annoyed, these rewards are not on my hard worked and well payed main account, and instead are on a free to play alt fun account. I personally not losing a lot from this situation, but I can’t not feel bad for the other Paragon players I was facing and left at VT, watching UC accounts claiming their VT rewards. It’s a shame for these accounts hard work, to get neutralised by a broken matchmaking that has failed loudly in the past also (AW Prestige matchmaking glorious days). But, it’s also unacceptable for a serious company to repeat the exact same mistake, and still waiting for people to outrage before starting taking action.
Yes, your alt Account with your current experience and knowledge with the game had an easier time than your Main. That's a statement for them, for sure. *sigh*
I am ranking up as normal, because as I've mentioned in other threads....this subject will be post after post flooding the forums until it is changed.
I want equal chance to fight the best accounts in my BG tier and worst accounts in my BG tier. Also, there have been many suggestions to clear out the top guys quicker from each tier giving everyone the opportunity to work their way up....as others move up.
(I would like them to leave in 0 energy friendly BGs during offseason though. Offsubject, but my thought.)
Yes, am now avoiding ranking up or using sig on on prestige champs
With only 1 r4 and few r3 managed to do d1 with 260k+ points . From plat3 to d1 ,it was tough mostly fighting stacked accounts with many r4s. My prestige is higher than normal considering i have only one r4 .....
you want to handicap your account for easier matchups? bruh....
Avoiding increasing prestige isn't handicapping account at all, unless you do competing AQ, which I don't. AQ is literally the only thing in the game that rewards high prestige.
Meanwhile BG seems to use prestige to just give nothing but harder matches and again, prestige doesn't reflect how strong a roster really is.
I am still doing rankups and using sig, I'm just not doing them on any champs that would replace my current top 5 prestige.
most of the newer good champs have higher prestige, and have importance in high sig. So yes, you are handicapping your account.
It really isn't much different from a Paragon hoarding shards for 3months for the next featured 6* crystal. A Cav to low TB can hoard for a month or two and then greatly upgrade their account. Especially now when there is nothing really that great for Paragon's anyway (like EOP or something like that).
no its completely different. What you said makes no sense in this context. either that or you dont wanna be at the highest progression level and are doing everything to stay away from it.
What are you talking about? Have you read the topic of this thread?
I have, and my response is such. If yo uwanna be aparagon in name only, thats just pointless.
Again, what are you talking about? What, exactly, is a "Paragon in name only"? How is hoarding shards for a new featured so much different from holding on ranking for a few months to rake in BG rewards?
You have to explain your argument.
Hoarding shards and hoarding rankup mats are totally different. one is in hope of getting new champs. one is intentional sabotage of ones account, in hopes of easier matchmaking in ONE GAME MODE. see the difference now?
Nope. Holding back your account for a short while for an ultimate bigger gain in the future. Seems pretty similar to me.
go ahead and hold yourself back. Makes it easier for me to beat you in BGs. Thanks.
Imagine holding your own account back bc you're too scared to match people at your own level 😂
There are some people like that, but there's also a more general fear of the unknown happening where people are anecdotally or even experiencing match up circumstances in which lower prestige accounts are having a much easier time progressing.
Also, I don't know this for certain, I can only offer my opinion based on what I've seen, but I don't think the match system is looking for people at or even super close to your prestige. I think it is invisibly organizing players into "prestige bands" and thus if you happening to be at the bottom of one, you won't get matched against equal competition, you will be matched against statistically much stronger competition. Conversely, if you're near the top of such a grouping you will get matched against statistically weaker competition *until* you advance your prestige out of that group of players and into the next higher group. Specifically, the *bottom* of that group.
Whereupon, no matter how many times you lose, no matter how you juggle your roster, you'll be condemned to get matched against much higher competition until you completely level yourself out of that region of matching, which could be non-trivial.
I've been averse to all forms of prestige/deck "strength" matching from the start personally. I just find any attempts at deck/account manipulation to gain favorable matching to be incredibly sad.
I just don't think someone's complaints about matchmaking cna be taken seriously if they're actively trying to game the matchmaking system while complaining about it.
Imagine holding your own account back bc you're too scared to match people at your own level 😂
I have to assume your at a lower progression level as you clearly have no clue how different it is between accounts at higher prestige. One person around 16k prestige may have a few high prestige not great r4 champs while another similar prestige may have 20+ r4 champs, top defenders and all new champs.
No, I want to fight 16.5k prestige account every match and am purposely trying to max prestige
I think something being lost here is that sure the younger accounts may have an easier trip to GC, but the tables turn entirely on them when they get there. And there is a lot of discussion on those players having easier matchups, my question then is who are they supposed to go against to have satisfactory competition? The GC is supposed to be the great equalizer. They may get there a week or two before the paragons that had a much more competitive journey but once they get there they are effectively stuck in uru regardless. Whilst the higher level accounts continue on with a a similar level of competition throughout GC. And while the TB and cav players get the same rewards for completing victory track in practice that isn’t the case since they have much higher pricing when they spend their currency. So it is not 1-1 compensation compared to the paragon that struggled to get there. The paragon is getting more value for the grind than the lower level players. I will say that the toughest spot to be in in my opinion is being a relatively new paragon player. Thrust into the end game level bracket of competitive play. But the game seems to be rapidly trending towards the next progression level and hopefully a new progression level will allow for some separation between the top end paragons and the lower end.
Let me interject before my comment becomes a back-and-forth. They are not getting an easy street to the GC. We've even had Players in other Threads indicate they've made it there on skill, and encountered tougher Accounts than theirs. They were scoffed at and told to enjoy their "fair" Rewards. Yet because they never fought the highest Accounts, they don't deserve to get to the actual competitive start? Let's be real. The GC is where it begins. Not where only the elite belong. This is the problem with the assumptions made about other Accounts. Everyone is so hyperfocused on other Accounts, through their own eyes, that they claim they can speak for what's easy and what's not, for others. You have people with years of experience in the game creating Alts and calling it easy, which is not a testament to how it is for someone at that stage. It's a testament to how it is for someone going back with all the knowledge and skill they have, and playing an easier part of the game FOR THEM. Not to mention how this skews the data. The idea that people aren't being challenged to get to the GC just because comparatively they would die against much larger Accounts is quite frankly, ignorant and arrogant. It's also blind to what is a challenge for others, and what is just absurd butchering. I will adamantly disagree with the implication that people aren't being challenged to get out of the VT, just because they haven't been overkilled by the largest Accounts. Especially when the largest Accounts consider it an injustice to go against equal or stronger Accounts. That's what the whole Paragon in name comment was about. People want the Title and all the Rewards, but they want to piggy back on the weaker Accounts instead of fighting other Paragons. Please.
For the I don't know how many time, there were literally UC players with 5k prestige who were in GC within 1-2 weeks. They got all victory track rewards and at least some GC rewards.
There were 15-16k prestige players who couldn't get out of victory track because they fought nothing but end game players with elite end game rosters. A UC fighting a UC won't be a major roster difference and many UC aren't great at the game so a slightly above average UC will get to GC fairly easy.
Pretty much everyone at Paragon is at least above average, and many are among the absolutely best I'm the game with the absolute best rosters in the game. At Paragon level and above average players with even an average Paragon rosters or low Paragon roster will get destroyed. They will have very little chance to make it to GC. Best case is they wait until last week and hope all the end game, whales and master alliance players are already in GC. Meanwhile, that 5k UC dude been chilling in GC for weeks.
I will NEVER agree that a weaker roster should get better rewards in rank tier rewards system UNLESS that weaker roster faces or has ability to face the stronger roster. If a lower player and in many cases waaaaay lower players can't beat me, but is in tier where slightly above average gets them to GC, how can you justify them then getting better rewards than end gamers with 15k+ prestige who that much weaker roster never has to face in victory track?
I've asked you this question a dozen times on several threads and you've never given me anything close to a decent answer.
I find it funny how a few months ago when sandbagging was still a thing, you were telling people who were complaining about it to stop complaining about it cause you were sick of seeing threads about sandbagging everywhere and now you're doing it too lmao. I haven't seen anyone on these forums complain about matchmaking as much as you have lately, and you may be right but you deserve a little taste so next time people complain about something you don't just try to shut them up. Seems kinda odd though that you were against sandbagging getting fixed, and now you're complaining because lower accounts were avoiding you 100% while you were stuck on gold. Not saying this is how it should be, in fact I want completely random matchmaking too... but it does seem like you have a little skill issue going on there pal.
Let me interject before my comment becomes a back-and-forth. They are not getting an easy street to the GC. We've even had Players in other Threads indicate they've made it there on skill, and encountered tougher Accounts than theirs. They were scoffed at and told to enjoy their "fair" Rewards. Yet because they never fought the highest Accounts, they don't deserve to get to the actual competitive start? Let's be real. The GC is where it begins. Not where only the elite belong. This is the problem with the assumptions made about other Accounts. Everyone is so hyperfocused on other Accounts, through their own eyes, that they claim they can speak for what's easy and what's not, for others. You have people with years of experience in the game creating Alts and calling it easy, which is not a testament to how it is for someone at that stage. It's a testament to how it is for someone going back with all the knowledge and skill they have, and playing an easier part of the game FOR THEM. Not to mention how this skews the data. The idea that people aren't being challenged to get to the GC just because comparatively they would die against much larger Accounts is quite frankly, ignorant and arrogant. It's also blind to what is a challenge for others, and what is just absurd butchering. I will adamantly disagree with the implication that people aren't being challenged to get out of the VT, just because they haven't been overkilled by the largest Accounts. Especially when the largest Accounts consider it an injustice to go against equal or stronger Accounts. That's what the whole Paragon in name comment was about. People want the Title and all the Rewards, but they want to piggy back on the weaker Accounts instead of fighting other Paragons. Please.
For the I don't know how many time, there were literally UC players with 5k prestige who were in GC within 1-2 weeks. They got all victory track rewards and at least some GC rewards.
There were 15-16k prestige players who couldn't get out of victory track because they fought nothing but end game players with elite end game rosters. A UC fighting a UC won't be a major roster difference and many UC aren't great at the game so a slightly above average UC will get to GC fairly easy.
Pretty much everyone at Paragon is at least above average, and many are among the absolutely best I'm the game with the absolute best rosters in the game. At Paragon level and above average players with even an average Paragon rosters or low Paragon roster will get destroyed. They will have very little chance to make it to GC. Best case is they wait until last week and hope all the end game, whales and master alliance players are already in GC. Meanwhile, that 5k UC dude been chilling in GC for weeks.
I will NEVER agree that a weaker roster should get better rewards in rank tier rewards system UNLESS that weaker roster faces or has ability to face the stronger roster. If a lower player and in many cases waaaaay lower players can't beat me, but is in tier where slightly above average gets them to GC, how can you justify them then getting better rewards than end gamers with 15k+ prestige who that much weaker roster never has to face in victory track?
I've asked you this question a dozen times on several threads and you've never given me anything close to a decent answer.
I find it funny how a few months ago when sandbagging was still a thing, you were telling people who were complaining about it to stop complaining about it cause you were sick of seeing threads about sandbagging everywhere and now you're doing it too lmao. I haven't seen anyone on these forums complain about matchmaking as much as you have lately, and you may be right but you deserve a little taste so next time people complain about something you don't just try to shut them up. Seems kinda odd though that you were against sandbagging getting fixed, and now you're complaining because lower accounts were avoiding you 100% while you were stuck on gold. Not saying this is how it should be, in fact I want completely random matchmaking too... but it does seem like you have a little skill issue going on there pal.
I didn't say I was against sandbagging emding then. I never was pro sandbagging. But yes, I was annoying when 7 new threads a day complaining about sandbagging came up in forums. Relook at the threads, back then I was saying the EXACT same thing as I am now. Which is when everyone is fighting for same rewards, then everyone in that tier should eligible tonight each other and that prestige and pi should play NO role in matchmaking.
I said multiple times that sandbagging would become non-existent if they were to take pi or prestige out of the matchmaking process which is 100 percent true.
I was 100 percent positive then that this would be their solution which I knew would be far worse for many players. Also, I made one thread 3 weeks ago at the start of when notice how bad it was and now at.the near end of season I did a poll. Nowhere close.to the same.thing nor has my message changed once.
Additionally, the still in gold post was over 3 weeks ago and was referencing it due to being in GC within days the previous seasons. Within a couple.days of that post I was in GC. I have hundreds of videos to show I don't have a skill issue, do you?
Just like the video I did to show some.of the accounts in GC as low as 5k prestige, it's about fairness and not punishing people for continuing to develop their roster. You should really do a better job at reading before calling people out.
Comments
Matchmaking tries to find you a match within your tier (f.e. Gold3) and within your Prestige range.
At Gladiator Circuit matchmaking is tying to find opponents with similar GC points, like it is at AW.
Once you get to GC, it's everyone in that tier against anyone else. This is where those who got an easy path to GC by only going against less developed rosters or players get massive wakeup calls. One dude recently posted a complaint how he lost 30 in a row in GC, but that was because he didn't have to face the strong rosters until he hit GC.
They are not getting an easy street to the GC. We've even had Players in other Threads indicate they've made it there on skill, and encountered tougher Accounts than theirs. They were scoffed at and told to enjoy their "fair" Rewards. Yet because they never fought the highest Accounts, they don't deserve to get to the actual competitive start? Let's be real. The GC is where it begins. Not where only the elite belong.
This is the problem with the assumptions made about other Accounts. Everyone is so hyperfocused on other Accounts, through their own eyes, that they claim they can speak for what's easy and what's not, for others.
You have people with years of experience in the game creating Alts and calling it easy, which is not a testament to how it is for someone at that stage. It's a testament to how it is for someone going back with all the knowledge and skill they have, and playing an easier part of the game FOR THEM. Not to mention how this skews the data.
The idea that people aren't being challenged to get to the GC just because comparatively they would die against much larger Accounts is quite frankly, ignorant and arrogant. It's also blind to what is a challenge for others, and what is just absurd butchering.
I will adamantly disagree with the implication that people aren't being challenged to get out of the VT, just because they haven't been overkilled by the largest Accounts. Especially when the largest Accounts consider it an injustice to go against equal or stronger Accounts. That's what the whole Paragon in name comment was about. People want the Title and all the Rewards, but they want to piggy back on the weaker Accounts instead of fighting other Paragons. Please.
Also, I don't know this for certain, I can only offer my opinion based on what I've seen, but I don't think the match system is looking for people at or even super close to your prestige. I think it is invisibly organizing players into "prestige bands" and thus if you happening to be at the bottom of one, you won't get matched against equal competition, you will be matched against statistically much stronger competition. Conversely, if you're near the top of such a grouping you will get matched against statistically weaker competition *until* you advance your prestige out of that group of players and into the next higher group. Specifically, the *bottom* of that group.
Whereupon, no matter how many times you lose, no matter how you juggle your roster, you'll be condemned to get matched against much higher competition until you completely level yourself out of that region of matching, which could be non-trivial.
There were 15-16k prestige players who couldn't get out of victory track because they fought nothing but end game players with elite end game rosters. A UC fighting a UC won't be a major roster difference and many UC aren't great at the game so a slightly above average UC will get to GC fairly easy.
Pretty much everyone at Paragon is at least above average, and many are among the absolutely best I'm the game with the absolute best rosters in the game. At Paragon level and above average players with even an average Paragon rosters or low Paragon roster will get destroyed. They will have very little chance to make it to GC. Best case is they wait until last week and hope all the end game, whales and master alliance players are already in GC. Meanwhile, that 5k UC dude been chilling in GC for weeks.
I will NEVER agree that a weaker roster should get better rewards in rank tier rewards system UNLESS that weaker roster faces or has ability to face the stronger roster. If a lower player and in many cases waaaaay lower players can't beat me, but is in tier where slightly above average gets them to GC, how can you justify them then getting better rewards than end gamers with 15k+ prestige who that much weaker roster never has to face in victory track?
I've asked you this question a dozen times on several threads and you've never given me anything close to a decent answer.
The expressed intent was to encourage players "to use their 'best' champs." The straight forward way to do that would be to match based on the ratings of the top 30 champs in a player's roster.
You keep going back to the Rewards as a reference, as if they don't deserve their Rewards from their own Matches, and your comparison is an entirely unreasonable matchup, when Paragons are arguing their Matches aren't getting them out of VT. What in the world does a lower Account getting to the GC have to do with those Accounts not playing and earning their Matches? Unless what you're lobbying for is the right to easy street Matches on the justification that Rewards are at stake. Doesn't that make you the very thing you're lobbying against?
People who are newly-Paragon are going to have a hard time at first. Just like people who are newly-TB, or Cav or any other Title. The top Title doesn't exempt people from going through that.
People keep flip-flopping their arguments between the Matches and the Rewards, as it suits their agenda. What I see a great deal of is bruised egos over not getting to the GC, when someone else has.
You have this completely backwards. You're saying there's no justification for Paragons' to "avoid" facing stronger Paragons. But that's what lower tier players are doing. While they are getting their "fair" matches, they are being allowed to completely avoid matches other players are not allowed to avoid.
Nobody is asking for Paragon's to get special treatment. You are the only person characterizing this as Paragons asking for special treatment. *I* would be perfectly happy if *no one* got special treatment. Instead, it is the lower roster players that are getting special treatment, by being allowed to avoid stronger competition.
I'm not asking to avoid anyone. I will fight anyone. If everyone else has to. But right now, many players don't have to.
In fact, I will go farther. I would be perfectly willing to offer lower roster players special treatment. I would be perfectly happy to grant them restricted, easier match ups when they are starting out, to encourage them to participate. But when I see them pass me by, using those advantages not just to start out, but to overtake me by a mile, my generosity in extending that easy on ramp becomes extremely strained.
To repeat: the lower roster players are the ones getting special treatment. And most Paragon's aren't even asking for that special treatment to go away completely. They are just asking for it to not be so blatant that they can literally climb over them into GT at one tenth the effort while most Paragons are struggling to get half as far as them. If that's too much to ask, too bad.
Rewards are a separate issue. One that I have no issues with changing. In fact, I'm not opposing any change. What I disagree with is the lack of acknowledgement for the efforts those Players are doing with the best of what they have, just because the highest Players are boasting about their ability to obliterate them given the chance.
This is the definition of special treatment. Why should they get to avoid those matches, but I can't? I have to fight everyone. I'm getting no special treatment. They are specifically avoiding certain matches. That's special treatment.In this game, roster matters. Stronger roster offers an advantage. Flipping that upside down and giving lower strength rosters an advantage, because otherwise they can't compete, is itself anti-progressional. If you think this is supposed to be an IROC-Z race, then ask for the devs to reinstitute 4* Decks. Then everyone gets 5/50 champs, and no one has a roster advantage. That would eliminate the progressional advantage and make battlegrounds purely skill based. Of course, then veterans would have an experience advantage over new players, but we can solve that problem by requiring veterans to hit themselves in the face with a shovel before every match.
The devs don't seem to think everyone playing with 5/50 decks is a good idea. They don't seem to think just handing everyone the same deck is a good idea either. That's because this game is a progressional game, and roster progress should confer an advantage not a disadvantage.
Repeating over and over that the lower tier players are "earning" their rewards is a meaningless statement. Nobody "earns" something in a competition. Competitions are about winning and losing. If you want to reward effort in Battlegrounds, give them a cookie. But giving players easier weaker matches and then slow clapping when they win is not earning rewards, any more than a drinking bird beating a snail over and over again deserves to be in Celestial.
They may be doing the best they can, but the best they can should not matter in a competition. And sure, you can cap their rewards so that they cannot overtake stronger players, but then you're permanently sentencing them to weak rewards. Now, the best and the worst of them get basically the same stuff. Is that what's best for them? None of them, no matter how skilled, will ever do better than what some designer arbitrarily decides is their ceiling?
If I was a new Cav player, I would not want to be trapped in a lower division with weak rewards. I would want to be able to compete against similar strength players, sure, but when I've proven that I can beat them, I would want a shot at stronger competition with higher rewards. That's what competitions are supposed to be for.
Its a dumb trade up but to each his own
We are not talking about 3-4 tiers in VT, we are talking about 16 VT tiers plus GC.
These are a lot of rewards to get by not matching the competition, who also fights for these rewards.
Because my main 15.3k Prestige account that placed Platinum3 VT, got less than half trophy tokens, than my alt 10k Prestige account which reached GC from the first week without sweating a bit.
No I don’t feel like my alt account worked these rewards.
They were handled to me for little to no effort, compared to the effort I put on my main, to not even reach halfway that.
I was winning matches at VT with the 10k Prestige account with 15k points, and I was losing matches with my main 15.3k Prestige account with 50k points at VT.
The difference in competing with people that have 10k Prestige to those that have over 15k is huge.
It’s a whole different world of skills and game knowledge.
Anyone with a second account that does BGs, can confirm that.
I don’t know know personally if I’m infuriated or not.
My alt account’s free rewards help me, to the not direction.
But I can surely say I’m annoyed, these rewards are not on my hard worked and well payed main account, and instead are on a free to play alt fun account.
I personally not losing a lot from this situation, but I can’t not feel bad for the other Paragon players I was facing and left at VT, watching UC accounts claiming their VT rewards.
It’s a shame for these accounts hard work, to get neutralised by a broken matchmaking that has failed loudly in the past also (AW Prestige matchmaking glorious days).
But, it’s also unacceptable for a serious company to repeat the exact same mistake, and still waiting for people to outrage before starting taking action.
*sigh*
I want equal chance to fight the best accounts in my BG tier and worst accounts in my BG tier. Also, there have been many suggestions to clear out the top guys quicker from each tier giving everyone the opportunity to work their way up....as others move up.
(I would like them to leave in 0 energy friendly BGs during offseason though. Offsubject, but my thought.)
From plat3 to d1 ,it was tough mostly fighting stacked accounts with many r4s.
My prestige is higher than normal considering i have only one r4 .....
I just don't think someone's complaints about matchmaking cna be taken seriously if they're actively trying to game the matchmaking system while complaining about it.
Seems kinda odd though that you were against sandbagging getting fixed, and now you're complaining because lower accounts were avoiding you 100% while you were stuck on gold. Not saying this is how it should be, in fact I want completely random matchmaking too... but it does seem like you have a little skill issue going on there pal.
I said multiple times that sandbagging would become non-existent if they were to take pi or prestige out of the matchmaking process which is 100 percent true.
I was 100 percent positive then that this would be their solution which I knew would be far worse for many players. Also, I made one thread 3 weeks ago at the start of when notice how bad it was and now at.the near end of season I did a poll. Nowhere close.to the same.thing nor has my message changed once.
Additionally, the still in gold post was over 3 weeks ago and was referencing it due to being in GC within days the previous seasons. Within a couple.days of that post I was in GC. I have hundreds of videos to show I don't have a skill issue, do you?
Just like the video I did to show some.of the accounts in GC as low as 5k prestige, it's about fairness and not punishing people for continuing to develop their roster. You should really do a better job at reading before calling people out.