**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

Gladiator Circuit Should Matcmake according To Prestige or Total Hero Rating

145791016

Comments

  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    For previous iterations of bgs I imagine Kabam used an unfiltered match maker and discovered players below a certain level wouldn’t participate after x matches; this is also likely evidenced once these now filtered players reach GC.

    Given that, anyone thinking they are being harmed by match making denying their ability to match/compete against these players are missing the fact that those players wouldn’t be participating if match making worked the way you think it should work.

    VT is similar to a playground, and y’all demanding the 12 year olds play sports against the 7 year olds; no one has fun or benefits from those situations, well except those who can’t stand to lose.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    edited February 2023

    For previous iterations of bgs I imagine Kabam used an unfiltered match maker and discovered players below a certain level wouldn’t participate after x matches; this is also likely evidenced once these now filtered players reach GC.

    Given that, anyone thinking they are being harmed by match making denying their ability to match/compete against these players are missing the fact that those players wouldn’t be participating if match making worked the way you think it should work.

    VT is similar to a playground, and y’all demanding the 12 year olds play sports against the 7 year olds; no one has fun or benefits from those situations, well except those who can’t stand to lose.

    That was exactly my concern, with reference to the lack of interest in War. No one is going to want to play when they're getting greatly overpowered in the first couple Tiers. For some reason, that point seems to be ignored because they think it's an injustice to not have the ability to use their Losses as propulsion. It's a self-serving perspective.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    You can ignore whatever you like. The thing about ignoring facts is, it makes one ignorant.
  • TyEdge said:

    DNA3000 said:

    TyEdge said:

    Anything that disincentivizes rankups and roster growth/improvement is objectively wrong and bad game design. Period.

    I would prefer staggered starts based on progression (bronze UC, silver Cav, and gold TB/P) with lower level rank rewards being mailed at season kickoff. That means if you’re paragon and start right away, it’s all TB/P players. If you wait or start slow, some cavs or UCs might sneak in.

    Alternatively, matchmaking should be truly random strictly by tier (bronze etc). Just like war, roster and skill determine the outcome. Great skill CAN overcome a weaker roster.

    Finally, as I keep begging, reduce the loss penalty. Double the medals needed to advance (or 2->3, 3->5) and do two for a win, minus one for a loss.

    It has been a while, so I will repeat the suggestion I tossed out a while ago (back in season one, I think).

    2-0 Match victory awards two points (trophies)
    2-1 Match victory awards one point
    1-2 Match loss awards no points
    0-2 Match loss costs one point

    This kind of scoring a) propels the best of the best out of VC and into GC quicker, where they are supposed to be anyway, b) encourages players to fight for every win, because even one win out of three helps, and c) lowers the chance of sliding backwards and thus reduces the amount of frustration over lost progress. Under this system you'd probably need to increase the trophies required for progress per tier by at least one, maybe two when you get to upper Diamond and Vibranium.

    As to staggered starts, the complicating factor is participation. We cannot give gigantic BG rewards to players who don't actually fight, regardless of progress tier. Instead, for practical reasons, if we start a Paragon player in, say, Gold, then instead of mailing them the rewards at start up, we would need to give them a set of milestone rewards they would need to earn by actually participating. They could be essentially doubling up on rewards as they play, by earning the normal BG rewards and these other "start up" rewards for the same play, but they can't get the rewards for nothing.
    You’re probably right about “day 1 rewards” being a bit of a problem. I play another game that offers them but they’re negligible compared to these. There’s a way to distribute those elsewhere, though.

    For example, give players an objective based on progression for reaching one or more milestones for participation in the season. “Score 70,000 points in the battlegrounds solo event.” Then, assign rewards based on progression title. It doesn’t interfere with rankings for the season solo event. It still allows for the staggered start/shorter progression tracks.
    That is essentially what I was suggesting with "milestone rewards" just with a slightly different nomenclature. The mechanism is a bit different, but the idea is the same as the one you appear to be thinking of.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    What are we talking about here? An even Matchmaking process within the first 2 or 3 Tiers. I'd like to know how that gives lower Players easier Rewards when they're going to level out either way. The fact is, and I'm going to say it, the issue is greed. People are so dead-set on Rewards that they refuse to see any other aspect to the problem. For what?
    The first couple of Brackets in the competition. I'm sorry, but that's a fair start. You're fighting the people within your own range, and if you can't advance with that, you have no argument for being able to compete at a higher level.
    So what if lower Players have some small amount of success at the beginning and feel incentivized to keep trying? Why is this such an issue? I'll tell you why, greed.
    There's a point where competitiveness becomes greed, and it ruins the competition for a good many people, save for the ones who are benefitting. It's the same greed that motivated Tanking and Sandbagging, and even Modding. Different forms, same thing.
    We're arguing at how unfair it is to have the results of an even Match at the beginning of a competition because they're having an "easier time at the Rewards". Bull****. We're arguing people trying to keep anyone lower than them from making any progress at all because there are Rewards at stake. That's not competition. That's greed.
    They're going to have to face random Matches and most likely be defeated either way, but expecting them to start off facing the highest Accounts in the game mode is NOT a "fair system". It's one that caters to people who are already going to have more success inherently, and making it about the Rewards just displays the real problem is the unhealthy greed for the Rewards that leads to a number of issues.
    I've said my piece. I'm not sitting back and saying nothing. We all know full well what fair is and what fair is not and it's not changed because of any payout when it's just plain wrong.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    I've been abundantly clear about what I'm saying is, what my position is, what my concern is. I've made suggestions in this Thread, which have been presented by other people, and I agree with. I also indicated the first 5 Tiers of using some mechanic that is similar to what we've seen was suggested, and I could get behind more, but I'm not dead-set on it. The idea is SOMETHING regulates the Matches for the start. Something prevents people from being bashed about before they even get a chance to have a start. Something prevents others from gaining unfair advantages in other ways, like we've seen.
    I have no idea how many more words I can use to explain what I would like to see, but feel free to misconstrue my thoughts into being about Rewards, or giving lower Players a leg up, or whatever other twist you see fit to make. If I were any clearer after pages and pages of explaining my points, I'd be Windex.
    I want people to have a reasonable start to the competition. Not just a farce of a pecking order that tickles the top Players and stops anyone else from getting into the activity itself. That kind of self-serving perspective has been executed before, and people scarcely care if they play that mode or not, unless they're the only ones getting anywhere. You can interpret that however many ways you like. I know what I said. I know what I mean. I know what I'm standing for. Period.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    I'd say I've been more than reasonable and willing to compromise with my ideas, considering my personal feelings are that the VT should all be moderated and the competition should start in the GC. If you can't win Matches within your own Prestige, you don't deserve to have an advantage over others for having a bigger Account. However, I have done my best to be respectful to all aspects of the issue. My main points have been outlined. People shouldn't be thrown in willy-nilly from the beginning. That's all I have to say.
  • I've been abundantly clear about what I'm saying is, what my position is, what my concern is. I've made suggestions in this Thread, which have been presented by other people, and I agree with. I also indicated the first 5 Tiers of using some mechanic that is similar to what we've seen was suggested, and I could get behind more, but I'm not dead-set on it. The idea is SOMETHING regulates the Matches for the start. Something prevents people from being bashed about before they even get a chance to have a start. Something prevents others from gaining unfair advantages in other ways, like we've seen.
    I have no idea how many more words I can use to explain what I would like to see, but feel free to misconstrue my thoughts into being about Rewards, or giving lower Players a leg up, or whatever other twist you see fit to make. If I were any clearer after pages and pages of explaining my points, I'd be Windex.
    I want people to have a reasonable start to the competition. Not just a farce of a pecking order that tickles the top Players and stops anyone else from getting into the activity itself. That kind of self-serving perspective has been executed before, and people scarcely care if they play that mode or not, unless they're the only ones getting anywhere. You can interpret that however many ways you like. I know what I said. I know what I mean. I know what I'm standing for. Period.

    The problem is, and this is important on a discussion forum, no one else does.

    So let's simplify. Yes or no. If the Battlegrounds match maker matched players at the start of the season based primarily on roster strength, but as the player advanced through the Victory track tiers the game shifted from matching primarily on roster strength to primarily matching on ELO (win/loss rating), then, for some negotiable Victory track tier in the middle of the Victory circuit, would you consider that to be fair to all players, or at least reasonable grounds upon which to build a fair match making system?

    Either you believe this is fair, or you do not believe this is fair. You could settle this with a simple answer.
  • mgj0630mgj0630 Posts: 992 ★★★★
    So let's pretend for a moment that the lower prestige accounts only get matched against comparative accounts for the first 3 tiers.

    How long will it be before the same group of players resurfaces because they can't get past the fourth tier? Then the fifth? The the sixth?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    I've been abundantly clear about what I'm saying is, what my position is, what my concern is. I've made suggestions in this Thread, which have been presented by other people, and I agree with. I also indicated the first 5 Tiers of using some mechanic that is similar to what we've seen was suggested, and I could get behind more, but I'm not dead-set on it. The idea is SOMETHING regulates the Matches for the start. Something prevents people from being bashed about before they even get a chance to have a start. Something prevents others from gaining unfair advantages in other ways, like we've seen.
    I have no idea how many more words I can use to explain what I would like to see, but feel free to misconstrue my thoughts into being about Rewards, or giving lower Players a leg up, or whatever other twist you see fit to make. If I were any clearer after pages and pages of explaining my points, I'd be Windex.
    I want people to have a reasonable start to the competition. Not just a farce of a pecking order that tickles the top Players and stops anyone else from getting into the activity itself. That kind of self-serving perspective has been executed before, and people scarcely care if they play that mode or not, unless they're the only ones getting anywhere. You can interpret that however many ways you like. I know what I said. I know what I mean. I know what I'm standing for. Period.

    The problem is, and this is important on a discussion forum, no one else does.

    So let's simplify. Yes or no. If the Battlegrounds match maker matched players at the start of the season based primarily on roster strength, but as the player advanced through the Victory track tiers the game shifted from matching primarily on roster strength to primarily matching on ELO (win/loss rating), then, for some negotiable Victory track tier in the middle of the Victory circuit, would you consider that to be fair to all players, or at least reasonable grounds upon which to build a fair match making system?

    Either you believe this is fair, or you do not believe this is fair. You could settle this with a simple answer.
    Yes. I do. Certainly more fair than playing for a suspected 2 weeks or more getting nowhere at all because the Accounts vastly overpower you. There's a fine line between making something competitive and eroding the desire to play at all. Once you cross that line, it's a long time for people to trickle back in. I believe we've seen this already. That applies for every Player playing. The progress arc of success to a point of not being able to move past it can't happen. That's a natural process.
    So I say, if you're telling people to wait until they're big boys to have a valid concern, how long do you expect to keep them in the pool? This isn't only harmful to their desire to play it. It also affects the matchmaking, as well as anyone else looking to fight them. There's a line. Overkilling them at the door is that line.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    mgj0630 said:

    So let's pretend for a moment that the lower prestige accounts only get matched against comparative accounts for the first 3 tiers.

    How long will it be before the same group of players resurfaces because they can't get past the fourth tier? Then the fifth? The the sixth?

    They probably will complain. Then someone will point out that all is as it should be, like we see people getting a 60+Mil difference in War get told. At least they'll have their foot in the experience. Not just told to "Git gud.". You stonewall people enough, and they won't care enough to work harder.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    As for the Rewards, I wouldn't care if they were altered because of said "easier" Matches, so long as it wasn't nerfed to the ground. If it's appropriate to what people are doing, I'd be fine with that. I'm more concerned with people having a chance starting out than the Rewards. What that would look like is open for debate.
  • L1zardW1zardL1zardW1zard Posts: 144 ★★★
    edited February 2023
    mgj0630 said:

    So let's pretend for a moment that the lower prestige accounts only get matched against comparative accounts for the first 3 tiers.

    How long will it be before the same group of players resurfaces because they can't get past the fourth tier? Then the fifth? The the sixth?

    That's irrelevant, the whole point here is that there shouldn't be a brick wall for lower players from the get go. Later on it's a different story but on Bronze? That's ridiculous.
    If you were a lower player would you want to be stuck trying to get out of bronze for a whole week and keep losing the streak because random matchmaking screws you over and matches you with a Paragon or a TB on a league where fights shouldn't be too hard for anyone? I was UC too with a bunch of maxed out 4* at some point and I wouldn't have wanted that back then.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    So let's pretend for a moment that the lower prestige accounts only get matched against comparative accounts for the first 3 tiers.

    How long will it be before the same group of players resurfaces because they can't get past the fourth tier? Then the fifth? The the sixth?

    That's irrelevant, the whole point here is that there shouldn't be a brick wall for lower players from the get go. Later on it's a different story but on Bronze? That's ridiculous.
    If you were a lower player would you want to be stuck trying to get out of bronze for a whole week and keep losing the streak because random matchmaking screws you over and matches you with a Paragon or a TB on a league where fights shouldn't be too hard for anyone? I was UC too with a bunch of maxed out 4* at some point and I wouldn't have wanted that back then.
    Would I want that? No, I wouldn't.

    Would I come here complaining that it's not fair to get beat by someone with a stronger account when I'm competing for the same thing? No, I wouldn't.

    Would I do my best while simultaneously building my roster strength through the numerous other pieces of content available to me, and have a sense of satisfaction by measuring my BG progression in each subsequent season? Yes, I would.
    What progress? When you're talking about the extreme example of UC Players, they're not making any progress by being slaughtered from the start. Yet they're a part of the competition. So how is it reasonable to expect them to continue playing if they have no chance from the start and a pat on the shoulder saying, "Toughen up, kid."? Do you think everyone is going to keep taking Loss after Loss and still putting their Roster into the Matchmaking? No. They're going to stop caring.
    Bottom line is, if they're going to be a part of the game mode, they need to be more of a consideration than Big Fish Food.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    Halpy said:

    How can I stop getting notifications from a discussion I started?

    Sorry.
  • GreekhitGreekhit Posts: 2,819 ★★★★★
    Halpy said:

    How can I stop getting notifications from a discussion I started?

    Enter setting near your profile icon (cog icon), tap preferences there and you will find the setting to turn it off 🙂
  • DemonicStalkerDemonicStalker Posts: 303 ★★
    Again... some people just don't get it... If i have great skill but weak roster, and I play/climb faster than my peers..I will end up being drawn to players with better roster (regardless of their skill level)..to b drawn to players with same prestige..etc..isn't gonna work cuz this also takes into account the time you play and the time players of the same prestige plays.. there is no "fairness" in bg draws..which makes it so intriguing...

    So if you chooose to rush your climb to gc with your low prestige/weak roster but great skill...do you expect many of your kind to do the same?
  • L1zardW1zardL1zardW1zard Posts: 144 ★★★
    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    So let's pretend for a moment that the lower prestige accounts only get matched against comparative accounts for the first 3 tiers.

    How long will it be before the same group of players resurfaces because they can't get past the fourth tier? Then the fifth? The the sixth?

    That's irrelevant, the whole point here is that there shouldn't be a brick wall for lower players from the get go. Later on it's a different story but on Bronze? That's ridiculous.
    If you were a lower player would you want to be stuck trying to get out of bronze for a whole week and keep losing the streak because random matchmaking screws you over and matches you with a Paragon or a TB on a league where fights shouldn't be too hard for anyone? I was UC too with a bunch of maxed out 4* at some point and I wouldn't have wanted that back then.
    Would I want that? No, I wouldn't.

    Would I come here complaining that it's not fair to get beat by someone with a stronger account when I'm competing for the same thing? No, I wouldn't.

    Would I do my best while simultaneously building my roster strength through the numerous other pieces of content available to me, and have a sense of satisfaction by measuring my BG progression in each subsequent season? Yes, I would.
    ...
Sign In or Register to comment.