Main issue and challenge I see devs having to deal with is them having to optimize the input system for the variety of different phones. As technology of phones improves and DPI increase, kabam just doesn’t have a good track record of being able to adapt quickly. they need to adjust the sensitivity of their inputs system to the sensitivity of all phones and tablets. They just can’t do that efficiently.
I play this game in my new iPhone 14 pro max, and the game lags more and inputs are way worse than my old iphone 12. On my new phone I dash back and randomly my champ dashes in instead. That never happens in my old phone.
This seems to be a massive problem for them and they are just appear to either not be staffed to deal with this issue or just not possessing the skills and tools necessary to tackle this. It’s unfortunate but it is what it is, the new input system beta was a failure and the game inputs have been broken for over a year now
I don't think it's that they can't adapt quickly. I think that the shear number of devices that can run the game is the problem. For your example, they have to optimize the game for a range of Apple 6S to your 14 Max. This is the minimum requirements to run the game on Android and iOS.
I'm not a programmer but there isn't a way to optimize differently for different phones that I am aware of. If they cater to high end phones only, it cuts a large majority of the player base off.
Main issue and challenge I see devs having to deal with is them having to optimize the input system for the variety of different phones. As technology of phones improves and DPI increase, kabam just doesn’t have a good track record of being able to adapt quickly. they need to adjust the sensitivity of their inputs system to the sensitivity of all phones and tablets. They just can’t do that efficiently.
I play this game in my new iPhone 14 pro max, and the game lags more and inputs are way worse than my old iphone 12. On my new phone I dash back and randomly my champ dashes in instead. That never happens in my old phone.
This seems to be a massive problem for them and they are just appear to either not be staffed to deal with this issue or just not possessing the skills and tools necessary to tackle this. It’s unfortunate but it is what it is, the new input system beta was a failure and the game inputs have been broken for over a year now
This right here I have notice as I done the same. Also and I’ve notice it’s mainly on multi hit specials with range attacks. You can be blocking the first part then all of a sudden you are dashing in at the defender and I’m not moving either of my thumbs
Main issue and challenge I see devs having to deal with is them having to optimize the input system for the variety of different phones. As technology of phones improves and DPI increase, kabam just doesn’t have a good track record of being able to adapt quickly. they need to adjust the sensitivity of their inputs system to the sensitivity of all phones and tablets. They just can’t do that efficiently.
I play this game in my new iPhone 14 pro max, and the game lags more and inputs are way worse than my old iphone 12. On my new phone I dash back and randomly my champ dashes in instead. That never happens in my old phone.
This seems to be a massive problem for them and they are just appear to either not be staffed to deal with this issue or just not possessing the skills and tools necessary to tackle this. It’s unfortunate but it is what it is, the new input system beta was a failure and the game inputs have been broken for over a year now
I don't think it's that they can't adapt quickly. I think that the shear number of devices that can run the game is the problem. For your example, they have to optimize the game for a range of Apple 6S to your 14 Max. This is the minimum requirements to run the game on Android and iOS.
I'm not a programmer but there isn't a way to optimize differently for different phones that I am aware of. If they cater to high end phones only, it cuts a large majority of the player base off.
That iPhone 6S minimum requirement is laughable. Sure, you’ll be able to install the game but I doubt you’ll even be able to navigate the menus without massive lag. I’d very much like to bring to attention that we’ve been dragging an issue of performance degradation for years now and it’s only getting worse. I’ve played mmorpg games where 20 different players were attacking a boss and sure enough the game would lag. But I’d get out of that fight and the game would go back to normal. With MCOC, after a number of fights depending on your phone you have no other choice but to restart it. Otherwise, parries will fail, fights will freeze and you’ll get your face smashed in. YouTubers with more recent phones experience it too, so can’t blame it on older models. That tells me that the game is not freeing resources properly.
Main issue and challenge I see devs having to deal with is them having to optimize the input system for the variety of different phones. As technology of phones improves and DPI increase, kabam just doesn’t have a good track record of being able to adapt quickly. they need to adjust the sensitivity of their inputs system to the sensitivity of all phones and tablets. They just can’t do that efficiently.
I play this game in my new iPhone 14 pro max, and the game lags more and inputs are way worse than my old iphone 12. On my new phone I dash back and randomly my champ dashes in instead. That never happens in my old phone.
This seems to be a massive problem for them and they are just appear to either not be staffed to deal with this issue or just not possessing the skills and tools necessary to tackle this. It’s unfortunate but it is what it is, the new input system beta was a failure and the game inputs have been broken for over a year now
I don't think it's that they can't adapt quickly. I think that the shear number of devices that can run the game is the problem. For your example, they have to optimize the game for a range of Apple 6S to your 14 Max. This is the minimum requirements to run the game on Android and iOS.
I'm not a programmer but there isn't a way to optimize differently for different phones that I am aware of. If they cater to high end phones only, it cuts a large majority of the player base off.
Samsung S5 minimum is laughable. Minimum of course means claiming crystals and doing basic attacks but never using a special attack.
I know this because I had to upgrade from an S5 due to the game being almost unplayable.
Main issue and challenge I see devs having to deal with is them having to optimize the input system for the variety of different phones. As technology of phones improves and DPI increase, kabam just doesn’t have a good track record of being able to adapt quickly. they need to adjust the sensitivity of their inputs system to the sensitivity of all phones and tablets. They just can’t do that efficiently.
I play this game in my new iPhone 14 pro max, and the game lags more and inputs are way worse than my old iphone 12. On my new phone I dash back and randomly my champ dashes in instead. That never happens in my old phone.
This seems to be a massive problem for them and they are just appear to either not be staffed to deal with this issue or just not possessing the skills and tools necessary to tackle this. It’s unfortunate but it is what it is, the new input system beta was a failure and the game inputs have been broken for over a year now
I don't think it's that they can't adapt quickly. I think that the shear number of devices that can run the game is the problem. For your example, they have to optimize the game for a range of Apple 6S to your 14 Max. This is the minimum requirements to run the game on Android and iOS.
I'm not a programmer but there isn't a way to optimize differently for different phones that I am aware of. If they cater to high end phones only, it cuts a large majority of the player base off.
That iPhone 6S minimum requirement is laughable. Sure, you’ll be able to install the game but I doubt you’ll even be able to navigate the menus without massive lag. I’d very much like to bring to attention that we’ve been dragging an issue of performance degradation for years now and it’s only getting worse. I’ve played mmorpg games where 20 different players were attacking a boss and sure enough the game would lag. But I’d get out of that fight and the game would go back to normal. With MCOC, after a number of fights depending on your phone you have no other choice but to restart it. Otherwise, parries will fail, fights will freeze and you’ll get your face smashed in. YouTubers with more recent phones experience it too, so can’t blame it on older models. That tells me that the game is not freeing resources properly.
I've never had to restart my phone to "make it normal". I currently have a Pixel 6 Pro. I experience a few weird things that I haven't been able to get on video because why I record, it doesn't happen. But restarting isn't something that I've ever needed to do that would change my experience.
I've never owned an apple device and never will. I can't speak to how things work with those devices other than not much changes with them model to model in terms of ram and graphics.
One thing that is a counter to your point is that it's not just low end phones that have experienced input issues. It's low to high end phones from both Android and Apple.
Main issue and challenge I see devs having to deal with is them having to optimize the input system for the variety of different phones. As technology of phones improves and DPI increase, kabam just doesn’t have a good track record of being able to adapt quickly. they need to adjust the sensitivity of their inputs system to the sensitivity of all phones and tablets. They just can’t do that efficiently.
I play this game in my new iPhone 14 pro max, and the game lags more and inputs are way worse than my old iphone 12. On my new phone I dash back and randomly my champ dashes in instead. That never happens in my old phone.
This seems to be a massive problem for them and they are just appear to either not be staffed to deal with this issue or just not possessing the skills and tools necessary to tackle this. It’s unfortunate but it is what it is, the new input system beta was a failure and the game inputs have been broken for over a year now
I don't think it's that they can't adapt quickly. I think that the shear number of devices that can run the game is the problem. For your example, they have to optimize the game for a range of Apple 6S to your 14 Max. This is the minimum requirements to run the game on Android and iOS.
I'm not a programmer but there isn't a way to optimize differently for different phones that I am aware of. If they cater to high end phones only, it cuts a large majority of the player base off.
Samsung S5 minimum is laughable. Minimum of course means claiming crystals and doing basic attacks but never using a special attack.
I know this because I had to upgrade from an S5 due to the game being almost unplayable.
Every few years they update this list. I'm sure that device and others along those specs will come off the minimum requirements. There tends to be posts here on the forums when it happens because they can't download the game anymore.
So where do you want this information? Bugs in the meantime? Provided we have as much information as possible? I had two scenarios happen to me just now in Incursions that shouldn't have been possible.
And if this is meant to address the various "input/lag" issues people are perceiving or reporting - what is to be done about the fact that many Defenders just act and respond how is humanly impossible? It's becoming harder and harder because the champs we're fighting don't respond or react in a way that any human player could play. That's my biggest issue.
For my two cents, I have been playing this game since it started. I have seen a lot change.
I want to summarize my concern with one single instance. Though the game is plagued with issues. I’m curious how Kabam is addressing these instances.
And really it comes down to player experience.
We shouldn’t be formally submitting bugs on behalf of the dev team.
Instead, we should be able share an issue via “our experience.”
Here is I how I would like to submit my issues:
Since the last update, I have noticed in all game modes on all my devices that the AI seems to recover from heavy attack misses much quicker than in previous versions. Why? This is a real simple game mechanic. Hold block to bait the heavy, evade, then attack. Because of animation frames or something the attack results in the defender blocking or intercepting.
What changed? Surely you know? Surely you play the game. I mean, all you need is one person on the team that plays the game.
For my two cents, I have been playing this game since it started. I have seen a lot change.
I want to summarize my concern with one single instance. Though the game is plagued with issues. I’m curious how Kabam is addressing these instances.
And really it comes down to player experience.
We shouldn’t be formally submitting bugs on behalf of the dev team.
Instead, we should be able share an issue via “our experience.”
Here is I how I would like to submit my issues:
Since the last update, I have noticed in all game modes on all my devices that the AI seems to recover from heavy attack misses much quicker than in previous versions. Why? This is a real simple game mechanic. Hold block to bait the heavy, evade, then attack. Because of animation frames or something the attack results in the defender blocking or intercepting.
What changed? Surely you know? Surely you play the game. I mean, all you need is one person on the team that plays the game.
You're the reason why they want more information. Nothing you said helps anyone figure anything out. You've provided nothing they asked for. No video, no quest information, no device information. Nothing. How does anything you just wrote help them narrow down the issue?
For my two cents, I have been playing this game since it started. I have seen a lot change.
I want to summarize my concern with one single instance. Though the game is plagued with issues. I’m curious how Kabam is addressing these instances.
And really it comes down to player experience.
We shouldn’t be formally submitting bugs on behalf of the dev team.
Instead, we should be able share an issue via “our experience.”
Here is I how I would like to submit my issues:
Since the last update, I have noticed in all game modes on all my devices that the AI seems to recover from heavy attack misses much quicker than in previous versions. Why? This is a real simple game mechanic. Hold block to bait the heavy, evade, then attack. Because of animation frames or something the attack results in the defender blocking or intercepting.
What changed? Surely you know? Surely you play the game. I mean, all you need is one person on the team that plays the game.
You're the reason why they want more information. Nothing you said helps anyone figure anything out. You've provided nothing they asked for. No video, no quest information, no device information. Nothing. How does anything you just wrote help them narrow down the issue?
Clearly you missed my point.
It’s not the player’s responsibility to prove something that they should easily see themselves if they played the game.
For my two cents, I have been playing this game since it started. I have seen a lot change.
I want to summarize my concern with one single instance. Though the game is plagued with issues. I’m curious how Kabam is addressing these instances.
And really it comes down to player experience.
We shouldn’t be formally submitting bugs on behalf of the dev team.
Instead, we should be able share an issue via “our experience.”
Here is I how I would like to submit my issues:
Since the last update, I have noticed in all game modes on all my devices that the AI seems to recover from heavy attack misses much quicker than in previous versions. Why? This is a real simple game mechanic. Hold block to bait the heavy, evade, then attack. Because of animation frames or something the attack results in the defender blocking or intercepting.
What changed? Surely you know? Surely you play the game. I mean, all you need is one person on the team that plays the game.
You're the reason why they want more information. Nothing you said helps anyone figure anything out. You've provided nothing they asked for. No video, no quest information, no device information. Nothing. How does anything you just wrote help them narrow down the issue?
Clearly you missed my point.
It’s not the player’s responsibility to prove something that they should easily see themselves if they played the game.
At this rate, they can just maintain deniability.
If they're asking for videos showing your finger touches and device information, then they can't see easily. Not everyone is having the same issues either.
It's a common practice for users to help the devs with stuff for every single game that exists. What you're suggesting is the same as taking your car to a mechanic saying you experienced something and telling them to figure it out because they have a car as well.
But hey, keep complaining and don't help, it's done wonders so far.
One big red herring to sell a story that I find hard to believe. It walks like a duck from my perspective and to say it’s a bunch of little bugs feels disingenuous
It kind of boggles the mind that Kabam's decided to require anyone who submits bugs to learn their internal bug submitting protocol and then gain access to some sort of limited availability fight reporting tool... instead of just giving a dozen phones to their testers so they can play the game for a week and record all the bugs themselves.
Yeah, this is what I do at work. Bug creation for a major enterprise software company.
The end user has to be able to submit these in their own language.
I’ll give ya another one.
The AI will only throw a special now at the tail end of the players evade (as though to catch the player) and as a means to intercept.
Why? Why did you teach the AI how to intercept at all, let alone intercept using a special?!
That was a human trick that we developed to deal with crappy AI. Humans will never have the response time.
And I really hope we don’t find out the AI is a response only AI b/c that would be cheating. But it kinda seems like it. AI should respond to on screen behavior, not the inputs of the player. You can’t give it foresight!
I’ll give you another one. Just experienced again, like always, in AQ. Why did you add an extra attack to evade chasing. So when the player evades. It would be for one, maybe two attacks. We did this all the time as part of baiting specials. So we are ALL very familiar with this.
Then last update it was 3 or 4 attacks we have to evade.
Today, the AI will even start a second combo and it is hard to tell where in the string they are to be able to get back in and fight.
Simple question - why did you add extra attacks to your “evade chasing”!
Yeah, this is what I do at work. Bug creation for a major enterprise software company.
The end user has to be able to submit these in their own language.
I’ll give ya another one.
The AI will only throw a special now at the tail end of the players evade (as though to catch the player) and as a means to intercept.
Why? Why did you teach the AI how to intercept at all, let alone intercept using a special?!
That was a human trick that we developed to deal with crappy AI. Humans will never have the response time.
And I really hope we don’t find out the AI is a response only AI b/c that would be cheating. But it kinda seems like it. AI should respond to on screen behavior, not the inputs of the player. You can’t give it foresight!
After reading your last three comments, there's no possible way you do any sort of work in software development. Unless by bug creation, you're person who creates a ticket when a bug is made and that's all.
There just isn't any possible way you actually deal with fixing anything in software development.
If we can intercept, the A.I can intercept. Thats like saying that if I'm playing against the A.I in Madden football, they can't tackle, intercept, throw the ball, catch or run.
Good luck at your job, doubt you'll be there long.
Some moderator removed some comments. That’s fine.
I just think we need a forum to talk about the changes we see.
Like I remember when the parry window changed. It use to be big. Then they made it too small. Like way too small. Players had to adapt, but Kabam had to expand the window, cuz it unintentionally small. You couldn’t hit a parry.
Something similar happened with block damage. Use to be zero.
And Sentinels sp1 was punishable, then it wasn’t, and now it is again.
I want to be able to talk about things like evade chasing, which really is pretty new. And they keep adding hits to hit.
And special baiting, along with how the AI is waiting to throw until it can “catch” the player at the end of their evade.
I mean, there has never been a fighting game in the history of fighting games where defenders must be hit 150+ times and the attacker takes one combo and they are dead. We need some real talk in the community.
And how many of us need to report bugs about fighting in "x" mode against "y" champion on "z" device before something as simple as "I dash back motion to avoid a Heavy, and instead my champion, unmoving, is a sitting (standing) duck for the Defenders Heavy to whollop me across the screen."
This is not an animation issue with a certain character, nor a PERCEPTION of input issues or lag. It's an issue that randomly can and has happened to any and all of us - with more and more frequency.
If it happened to me three different times in various modes of play yesterday, it's not something I should have to report for each incident for you to "investigate" why the frames of such and such champ were able to Heavy me when the simple input should've made my champ dash back.
And how many of us need to report bugs about fighting in "x" mode against "y" champion on "z" device before something as simple as "I dash back motion to avoid a Heavy, and instead my champion, unmoving, is a sitting (standing) duck for the Defenders Heavy to whollop me across the screen."
This is not an animation issue with a certain character, nor a PERCEPTION of input issues or lag. It's an issue that randomly can and has happened to any and all of us - with more and more frequency.
If it happened to me three different times in various modes of play yesterday, it's not something I should have to report for each incident for you to "investigate" why the frames of such and such champ were able to Heavy me when the simple input should've made my champ dash back.
Do you expect kabam to be like, "oh I see, the tag for DashBackWhileEnemyIsHeavying was set to false instead of being true"?
Kabam just laid out how they can go about foxing the issues, the issue could be an issue with a champion you use and their dexterity window, it could be an issue with the hit boxes, it could even be an issue with the input themselves. There are a ton of variables needed to be considered.
As a programmer myself, I spent 2 hours trying to figure out why my client program wasn't connecting to my server program. I tried many things like changing the inbound and outbound rules on my computer and googling why it wasn't working. After 2 hours it was because the type for the IP address was being inputted wrong. Keep in mind, that was a simple program with a simple solution. Mcoc is a very complex program and the solution might be simple, might be complex. The worst issues will probably be the ones that affect people named Dave who use an iPhone 14 at exactly 7:23PM on a night of the full moon.
So you are finally admitting how hard it is to fix those input issues we have to play by for the last 2 years !
Nearly one year ago you decided to stop giving us weekly compensation because input issues were not so much a problem...apparently they are still a problem for everyone, even for your engineers.
I believe what they actually said is these new input issues are not the same as the original input issues. Which somehow to them makes it sound okay. It's like going to a restaurant and seeing rats. The you stop going to that restaurant for a few years and come back eventually and you look at they still have rats. And they say no no no, those are not the same rats as before these are new rats. Problem is we don't really care whether they are old or new rats we would just prefer there be no rats. Now I understand whole heartedly that my analogy isn't really a fair comparison. But we would just prefer there be fewer rats without having to describe constantly for years what the shape, smell, colour, sex of the rats. Or what room we saw them in and if we happened to catch a video of rat in question. Again bad analogy I am aware. We all want the same thing for there to be the fewest amount of rats as possible. Thanks sorry for that rant.
100% this, well said. I’d only add that in one of the examples used they also seemed to infer that the way a player was using his device may have been partly responsible for the “rat”. Which… really that’s a great way for this to go…
And since these are different “rats” we shouldn’t mention the “C” word for this group, as each individual rat will be addressed as a different one… again just frustrating.
So, since we re in this all Transparency and Communication mood at the moment, I would like to ask:
What. About. The. AI.
Crickets.
Educated guess but it probably is AI changes that are bringing all these new things to light… now will that ever be confirmed or commented on as a possible root cause 🤷♂️
Comments
This is the minimum requirements to run the game on Android and iOS.
I'm not a programmer but there isn't a way to optimize differently for different phones that I am aware of. If they cater to high end phones only, it cuts a large majority of the player base off.
I’d very much like to bring to attention that we’ve been dragging an issue of performance degradation for years now and it’s only getting worse.
I’ve played mmorpg games where 20 different players were attacking a boss and sure enough the game would lag. But I’d get out of that fight and the game would go back to normal.
With MCOC, after a number of fights depending on your phone you have no other choice but to restart it. Otherwise, parries will fail, fights will freeze and you’ll get your face smashed in.
YouTubers with more recent phones experience it too, so can’t blame it on older models.
That tells me that the game is not freeing resources properly.
I know this because I had to upgrade from an S5 due to the game being almost unplayable.
I've never owned an apple device and never will. I can't speak to how things work with those devices other than not much changes with them model to model in terms of ram and graphics.
One thing that is a counter to your point is that it's not just low end phones that have experienced input issues. It's low to high end phones from both Android and Apple.
And if this is meant to address the various "input/lag" issues people are perceiving or reporting - what is to be done about the fact that many Defenders just act and respond how is humanly impossible? It's becoming harder and harder because the champs we're fighting don't respond or react in a way that any human player could play. That's my biggest issue.
I want to summarize my concern with one single instance. Though the game is plagued with issues. I’m curious how Kabam is addressing these instances.
And really it comes down to player experience.
We shouldn’t be formally submitting bugs on behalf of the dev team.
Instead, we should be able share an issue via “our experience.”
Here is I how I would like to submit my issues:
Since the last update, I have noticed in all game modes on all my devices that the AI seems to recover from heavy attack misses much quicker than in previous versions. Why? This is a real simple game mechanic. Hold block to bait the heavy, evade, then attack. Because of animation frames or something the attack results in the defender blocking or intercepting.
What changed? Surely you know? Surely you play the game. I mean, all you need is one person on the team that plays the game.
Clearly you missed my point.
It’s not the player’s responsibility to prove something that they should easily see themselves if they played the game.
At this rate, they can just maintain deniability.
It's a common practice for users to help the devs with stuff for every single game that exists. What you're suggesting is the same as taking your car to a mechanic saying you experienced something and telling them to figure it out because they have a car as well.
But hey, keep complaining and don't help, it's done wonders so far.
The end user has to be able to submit these in their own language.
I’ll give ya another one.
The AI will only throw a special now at the tail end of the players evade (as though to catch the player) and as a means to intercept.
Why? Why did you teach the AI how to intercept at all, let alone intercept using a special?!
That was a human trick that we developed to deal with crappy AI. Humans will never have the response time.
And I really hope we don’t find out the AI is a response only AI b/c that would be cheating. But it kinda seems like it. AI should respond to on screen behavior, not the inputs of the player. You can’t give it foresight!
Then last update it was 3 or 4 attacks we have to evade.
Today, the AI will even start a second combo and it is hard to tell where in the string they are to be able to get back in and fight.
Simple question - why did you add extra attacks to your “evade chasing”!
There just isn't any possible way you actually deal with fixing anything in software development.
If we can intercept, the A.I can intercept. Thats like saying that if I'm playing against the A.I in Madden football, they can't tackle, intercept, throw the ball, catch or run.
Good luck at your job, doubt you'll be there long.
Forget it, while we aren’t aligned - Or we find ways to not be aligned, nothing will ever get done.
For what it’s worth, it’s not like Madden at all.
The disparity in health pools has always existed to conceal AI quality.
If they want the AI to perform at the level of a human.
Lower the health pools and attack bonuses.
Make it a fair fight!
I just think we need a forum to talk about the changes we see.
Like I remember when the parry window changed. It use to be big. Then they made it too small. Like way too small. Players had to adapt, but Kabam had to expand the window, cuz it unintentionally small. You couldn’t hit a parry.
Something similar happened with block damage. Use to be zero.
And Sentinels sp1 was punishable, then it wasn’t, and now it is again.
I want to be able to talk about things like evade chasing, which really is pretty new. And they keep adding hits to hit.
And special baiting, along with how the AI is waiting to throw until it can “catch” the player at the end of their evade.
I mean, there has never been a fighting game in the history of fighting games where defenders must be hit 150+ times and the attacker takes one combo and they are dead. We need some real talk in the community.
This is not an animation issue with a certain character, nor a PERCEPTION of input issues or lag. It's an issue that randomly can and has happened to any and all of us - with more and more frequency.
If it happened to me three different times in various modes of play yesterday, it's not something I should have to report for each incident for you to "investigate" why the frames of such and such champ were able to Heavy me when the simple input should've made my champ dash back.
Kabam just laid out how they can go about foxing the issues, the issue could be an issue with a champion you use and their dexterity window, it could be an issue with the hit boxes, it could even be an issue with the input themselves. There are a ton of variables needed to be considered.
As a programmer myself, I spent 2 hours trying to figure out why my client program wasn't connecting to my server program. I tried many things like changing the inbound and outbound rules on my computer and googling why it wasn't working. After 2 hours it was because the type for the IP address was being inputted wrong. Keep in mind, that was a simple program with a simple solution. Mcoc is a very complex program and the solution might be simple, might be complex. The worst issues will probably be the ones that affect people named Dave who use an iPhone 14 at exactly 7:23PM on a night of the full moon.
And since these are different “rats” we shouldn’t mention the “C” word for this group, as each individual rat will be addressed as a different one… again just frustrating.