What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
Any challenge requiring more than 30 revives requires units now. Pretty much all of the EoP challenges have required far more than this.
Another win for those, who use software to do the game. I already realize how much more money they will do on pure guys that cannot play this game perfectly😂 Kabam, please, stop bullying normal players and just punish cheaters🥵
Let’s be real. Do you really think anyone is going to bother to do the easy version of the quest for a level 1 and level 2 potion? No.
I doubt the legitimacy of your conclusion that 100-300k revives are farmed everyday. And if by some chance that’s actually accurate, I’d venture to say 50-55% are users using a bot that you can’t detect.
A better idea would have been a separate arena, with 10 milestone rewards that each gave a level 1 revive and a level 5 health potion, 10000 gold, and 2000 battle chips, and run it as a 3 day arena and have it run continuously.
Kudos for having almost 150 disagrees on that post in under 2 hours. Gotta be a record for this forum on Dev posts.
While I’ve never done any revive farming, I find it hard to understand why this was considered a bigger problem right now than the various input issues, numerous bugs in Battlegrounds, and the situation with cheating and modders. If revive spamming is such a major issue, why not just institute item or revive caps in quests like in AQ and AW? The cap could differ depending on what the content actually is (story, EOP, ROL, etc.) to allow more leniency in more difficult content. Surely that would help mitigate whatever problem is presented by being easily able to farm revives. The only thing this looks to achieve to me is increase the amount of units and money spent on revives.
Kabam since you’re so big on stats in your post and saying how many revives are farmed per day in the lower level content, please share what the AVERAGE revive cost was to complete Carina, abyss, or any other end game content.
Most days I have revives that expire because I don’t have to use them in everyday content. But removing the ability to spike my inventory for extremely difficult content is just stupid. Most ppl aren’t just farming non-stop all day everyday. It’s to complete specific content. And to be clear, kabam does not have an issue with its players using revives to complete content, they have an issue with the players not spending money to purchase them with units.
Whether ppl “grind” arena to get units to then purchase revives, or just “grind” lower level quests for revives the result is the same. The players are still using revives to get through content that is virtually impossible without for most players.
If you have to do this, just remove the inventory cap so at least we can save them for when big content comes out instead of watching revives expire 90% of the time.
Lol Kabam so out of touch man, I’ve been able to complete difficult content because of 3.2.6. Without it I probably would still be cavalier…. 1 revive a day is such a joke smh
I have a better suggestion for the "spamming revives" issue.
How about adding a cooldown of like, 30 minutes before you're able to use a revive again?
That way people won't just spam them. They are either forced to play their very best so that they can get the max use out of their try, or either have to patiently wait 30 minutes to try again.
You can also add an option to watch like 5x ads to skip the cooldown. And another option to skip it via some additional units as well, why not.
That’s not the real issue. They don’t care that you’re using a lot of revives. They care that you’re not spending 40 units a piece for them
From what I understand, they care about the level of challenge that the content they release provides. When you have Players sitting on stockpiles of Revs from farming and they're pushing through it the day it's released, that puts a strain on design. At least that's what I'm interpretating.
The content they designed is designed around the fact we are able to farm revives in the first place. There are probably a double digit number of players in this entire game that can get through something like a v3 Carinas challenge in 15 or less revives. It’s not worth doing that content if it’s going to cost a few thousand units to do a single objective
They tell us that they noticed a huge number of revive farms before the big contents.
This means that they have logs of everything that is done on the game. So they are going to punish the legit and/or free to play players ...But they don't do anything against the cheaters, especially all those who became recently Legend by cheating in incursions (we know the technique, a normal account, and the 2nd one who cheats, it becomes of course very easy to make 25 rooms). Or those who play in battleground by putting 20 millions shots...
I have a better suggestion for the "spamming revives" issue.
How about adding a cooldown of like, 30 minutes before you're able to use a revive again?
That way people won't just spam them. They are either forced to play their very best so that they can get the max use out of their try, or either have to patiently wait 30 minutes to try again.
You can also add an option to watch like 5x ads to skip the cooldown. And another option to skip it via some additional units as well, why not.
That’s not the real issue. They don’t care that you’re using a lot of revives. They care that you’re not spending 40 units a piece for them
From what I understand, they care about the level of challenge that the content they release provides. When you have Players sitting on stockpiles of Revs from farming and they're pushing through it the day it's released, that puts a strain on design. At least that's what I'm interpretating.
The content they designed is designed around the fact we are able to farm revives in the first place. There are probably a double digit number of players in this entire game that can get through something like a v3 Carinas challenge in 15 or less revives. It’s not worth doing that content if it’s going to cost a few thousand units to do a single objective
I can't say for certain that they're designing it around people farming, but if they are designing around the idea that people have an unlimited availability through farming, that's a whole other design issue.
People also wouldn’t have to farm the amount of revives they do if you would finally fix all the bugs, input, frame rate, and animation issues that have been plaguing this game.
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
People trying to complete content with no access to farming revives perhaps..
Just "people?" Sure, but which people who don't have access to farming revives? Everyone keeps saying this is a cash grab. But how many of them are actually planning on spending cash because of this cash grab?
It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.
I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.
Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.
If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.
The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.
So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.
This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.
I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.
I haven't been on the forums for awhile now but this one was worth the wait. I think it is ridiculous to remove revive farming. Even the most elite youtubers potion/revive farm at a minimum.
Kabam, I'm telling you now this will not go over well. We warned you about how hard act 6 and 7 was and this is the same thing. It seems like a great idea now but 100% I can guarantee you less players will play hard content and you will be forced to bring back revives or make content easier. Really consider this before you jump the gun again. The only reason why I spend now is to be first at things. With revive farming (which isn't easy and huge time waster) I can keep up with high level content and then it allows me to spend on items such as relics. You pull revive farming well, I pullout of relic offers and other deals. It is what it is.
"This frenzied revive farming trivializes difficult content like Carina’s Challenges and Eternity of Pain because Summoners simply spam revives. For us to allow what is effectively a loophole for these challenging pieces of content, we would have to dilute rewards given from that content, and that is not something we want to do.
Without these changes, we risk having to cancel development on upcoming high difficulty content currently in the works."
This is just bs reasoning tbh. Because this doesn't stop someone spamming revives if they simply buy the units to buy the revives. I really don't think Kabam has any issue with that. So it's an issue that summoners prepare for difficult quests by grabbing a good supply of revives from other quests but if they just buy units and spam buy revives it's completely fine? Revive farming is a part of the game, everyone makes sure that they have the necessary resources before they tackle difficult content so why is there a need to remove free revive farming if money revive farming is perfectly acceptable in your view? Terrible decision by Kabam.
It was a change we all expected and honestly 48 energy for a guaranteed level 1 revive 6 days a week isn't bad. What I think is bad is the potion drops. A level 3 potion is pretty worthless considering we get a ton of those from just RoL which is 1 energy.
What I'd like to see is having the hard quest progression tuned so TB+ or Cav+ players get a level 4 potion minimum, preferably a level 5 or 6 potion.
Part of me expected this to happen eventually, but when you look at the content they put out it’s very disappointing.
EoP 3 for most players couldn’t be completed in 30 revives. I’m playing with T1 players and most of them were averaging 50/challenge because the challenges were so limiting. The translation here is that if we were to complete one of those challenges with the live changes it would cost you 800 units and you’d only be able to do 1 challenge per month while you waited for your stash to replenish, and oh by the way, spend 30% of your daily energy on a revive, not genuinely fun content.
100% agree, my cheapest EoP run was still 42 revives. The thing I loved about revive farming is that it took the pressure off me from dying because why should I care when I have 100+ revives in stash? Revive farming, while being OP, removed a lot of stress of the game for me so I could enjoy the game more. I actually enjoyed (to a certain extent) doing the Carina Challenges because it didn't matter too much if I died.
I do want to eliminate any confusion with my original post, I really dislike the decision kabam made on changes to revive farming because that means hard content is going to be stressful again for me. I understand the why, but I think they only should have gotten rid of it if the game inputs were working fine, then it'd be much more understandable.
Alternatively, like someone already mentioned, they should just add a revive limit to any hard content they don't want us to just revive spam. If they do that, then the fights better be reasonable and not have the dumb hit counter or enrage countdown we see in abyss and labyrinth. The fights should all be solvable with anyone if you have the skills for it, not just because they can output enough damage in the time interval alloted.
There wasn’t enough heads up for this and while I can understand the reasoning and that in the long run, this could provide toned down content, it seems drastic and almost punishing. They should at least make the apothecary title based or something to provided relevant consumables
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
People trying to complete content with no access to farming revives perhaps..
Just "people?" Sure, but which people who don't have access to farming revives? Everyone keeps saying this is a cash grab. But how many of them are actually planning on spending cash because of this cash grab?
It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.
I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.
Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.
If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.
The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.
So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.
This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.
I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.
Sorry @DNA3000 - I don’t agree with your logic here.
As someone said earlier, if Kabam want us to (in their words) ‘stop spamming revives’, then why don’t they put an item limit on quests. They’ve removed the ftp farming option but kept the pay to win option. So it appears they don’t want us to stop spamming, they just want us to pay for it.
This change will not have the effect you desire. Whales gonna whale. The rest of us will skip this content, and when we fall behind, stop playing. The fun police wont win this one.
Something I'm genuinely curious about in particular is this ..... "This frenzied revive farming trivializes difficult content like Carina’s Challenges and Eternity of Pain because Summoners simply spam revives" ...
OK, I get my head around that to some.extent or other but I am.still able to go and spend an obscene amount of money on units and buy revives that I can "simply spam" ..... so that's is no reason to be doing it, it's just an excuse (not even a plausible one). And this company (and their white knights) wonders why we don't trust what they say. They're quite literally.lying to our faces while asking for money
They should have just come out and said what they really meant.
"Revive spamming has become far too efficient at finishing content, bc we massively screwed up and released Herc as he is. Since we're far too cowardly to address the actual problem, that we also created, we will instead create yet another problem and make difficult content even more expensive to finish, therefore making sure to perpetuate the thing we don't like (revive spamming with Herc), bc now it will still be the most efficient way to finish content and will be even worse for anyone not wanting to do that and use other champs."
This change is a complete joke. Another money grab no matter how they justify it. Why do they update things like this but not things like the item cap in the inventory?
Hey Kabam, its time to balance out removal of revives farming by making inputs worse than it is right now (which is almost impossible), speed up Ai even more and reduce their recovery timings, let mods keep their rewards and play the game without any fear that they will be banned.
But all seriousness are you doing any % speedrun this game to its grave? Because surely it looks this way.
For how much kabam complained about fixing the iso and gold problem due to the "game economy" they sure can't seem to realize how this decision will tank the game economy especially for f2p players. And for kabams comment on people revive spamming hard content to get through it, did they just forget the 4star labyrinth carinas challenges
#1 Feels like a purely monetary reason. #2 Here's what we deemed a "reasonable" amount of revives.... felt like we were being talked down to or patronized. #3 Acting like you care... we don't want you relying on RNG and spending needless energy. Here's a way to get a single revive...... #4 Sadly probably just going to lead to more people relying on mercs or modding. #5 Going to gives moderators headaches with the amount of people demanding revives cause of bugs or glitches. #6 I give it less than a month before I start seeing revive "deals" in the unit store. #7 Probably have upset more people by doing this than they calculated. #8 Will have at least 1 troll saying git gud lmfao!!
Grinding revives shouldn't be nerfed. Period. I could see if it was like 10 energy for a revive grind but it's literally 40 energy for 1 revive? Maybe? Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 full energy refills to get 1 single revive. This is just disgusting
Comments
I doubt the legitimacy of your conclusion that 100-300k revives are farmed everyday. And if by some chance that’s actually accurate, I’d venture to say 50-55% are users using a bot that you can’t detect.
A better idea would have been a separate arena, with 10 milestone rewards that each gave a level 1 revive and a level 5 health potion, 10000 gold, and 2000 battle chips, and run it as a 3 day arena and have it run continuously.
Kudos for having almost 150 disagrees on that post in under 2 hours. Gotta be a record for this forum on Dev posts.
Most days I have revives that expire because I don’t have to use them in everyday content. But removing the ability to spike my inventory for extremely difficult content is just stupid. Most ppl aren’t just farming non-stop all day everyday. It’s to complete specific content. And to be clear, kabam does not have an issue with its players using revives to complete content, they have an issue with the players not spending money to purchase them with units.
Whether ppl “grind” arena to get units to then purchase revives, or just “grind” lower level quests for revives the result is the same. The players are still using revives to get through content that is virtually impossible without for most players.
If you have to do this, just remove the inventory cap so at least we can save them for when big content comes out instead of watching revives expire 90% of the time.
They tell us that they noticed a huge number of revive farms before the big contents.
This means that they have logs of everything that is done on the game. So they are going to punish the legit and/or free to play players ...But they don't do anything against the cheaters, especially all those who became recently Legend by cheating in incursions (we know the technique, a normal account, and the 2nd one who cheats, it becomes of course very easy to make 25 rooms). Or those who play in battleground by putting 20 millions shots...
There it's strangely radio silence...
It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.
I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.
Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.
If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.
The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.
So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.
This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.
I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.
Kabam, I'm telling you now this will not go over well. We warned you about how hard act 6 and 7 was and this is the same thing. It seems like a great idea now but 100% I can guarantee you less players will play hard content and you will be forced to bring back revives or make content easier. Really consider this before you jump the gun again. The only reason why I spend now is to be first at things. With revive farming (which isn't easy and huge time waster) I can keep up with high level content and then it allows me to spend on items such as relics. You pull revive farming well, I pullout of relic offers and other deals. It is what it is.
Without these changes, we risk having to cancel development on upcoming high difficulty content currently in the works."
This is just bs reasoning tbh. Because this doesn't stop someone spamming revives if they simply buy the units to buy the revives. I really don't think Kabam has any issue with that. So it's an issue that summoners prepare for difficult quests by grabbing a good supply of revives from other quests but if they just buy units and spam buy revives it's completely fine? Revive farming is a part of the game, everyone makes sure that they have the necessary resources before they tackle difficult content so why is there a need to remove free revive farming if money revive farming is perfectly acceptable in your view? Terrible decision by Kabam.
I do want to eliminate any confusion with my original post, I really dislike the decision kabam made on changes to revive farming because that means hard content is going to be stressful again for me. I understand the why, but I think they only should have gotten rid of it if the game inputs were working fine, then it'd be much more understandable.
Alternatively, like someone already mentioned, they should just add a revive limit to any hard content they don't want us to just revive spam. If they do that, then the fights better be reasonable and not have the dumb hit counter or enrage countdown we see in abyss and labyrinth. The fights should all be solvable with anyone if you have the skills for it, not just because they can output enough damage in the time interval alloted.
As someone said earlier, if Kabam want us to (in their words) ‘stop spamming revives’, then why don’t they put an item limit on quests. They’ve removed the ftp farming option but kept the pay to win option. So it appears they don’t want us to stop spamming, they just want us to pay for it.
"Revive spamming has become far too efficient at finishing content, bc we massively screwed up and released Herc as he is. Since we're far too cowardly to address the actual problem, that we also created, we will instead create yet another problem and make difficult content even more expensive to finish, therefore making sure to perpetuate the thing we don't like (revive spamming with Herc), bc now it will still be the most efficient way to finish content and will be even worse for anyone not wanting to do that and use other champs."
But all seriousness are you doing any % speedrun this game to its grave? Because surely it looks this way.
#1 Feels like a purely monetary reason.
#2 Here's what we deemed a "reasonable" amount of revives.... felt like we were being talked down to or patronized.
#3 Acting like you care... we don't want you relying on RNG and spending needless energy. Here's a way to get a single revive......
#4 Sadly probably just going to lead to more people relying on mercs or modding.
#5 Going to gives moderators headaches with the amount of people demanding revives cause of bugs or glitches.
#6 I give it less than a month before I start seeing revive "deals" in the unit store.
#7 Probably have upset more people by doing this than they calculated.
#8 Will have at least 1 troll saying git gud lmfao!!