Without these changes, we risk having to cancel development on upcoming high difficulty content currently in the works.
Also this makes no sense. Does revive farming actually prevent you from developing high difficulty content? Hard content naturally requires the use of revives, but in the past you have shown that some difficult fights are soloable and you have done this by giving summoners advantages and bonus attack during the fight if we perform certain actions. Like the grandmaster fight, intercepting and doing the correct actions on his special attacks, gives us higher damage tokens and makes the fight easier, but still quite challenging. Same with Gwenmaster, same with Kang(s). Eternity of pain on the other hand or the labryinth doesn't exactly reward summoners for performing certain actions, so naturally more revives are used. Obviously anyone could farm thousands of revives and slowly clip away at challenging content but I believe most of us find the right counters to make the fights fun rather than grinding, and then always having a good supply of revives in case we make the occassional mistake. Really don't see how you can make this connection.
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
People trying to complete content with no access to farming revives perhaps..
Just "people?" Sure, but which people who don't have access to farming revives? Everyone keeps saying this is a cash grab. But how many of them are actually planning on spending cash because of this cash grab?
It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.
I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.
Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.
If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.
The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.
So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.
This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.
I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.
Sorry @DNA3000 - I don’t agree with your logic here.
As someone said earlier, if Kabam want us to (in their words) ‘stop spamming revives’, then why don’t they put an item limit on quests. They’ve removed the ftp farming option but kept the pay to win option. So it appears they don’t want us to stop spamming, they just want us to pay for it.
They could just ban items altogether from top tier content. Not only would this eliminate the farming problem, but it would literally dunk on the players claiming that this was a "cash grab."
That's what I would do. Kabam is just reducing farming rather than eliminating it and is continuing to allow players to use items in top tier content because they have more mercy than I do.
As to "keeping the pay to win option" yeah, they still allow people to actually buy things and use things. Because if they don't, the game will die. That's true everywhere. We have random crystals that the whales can just buy hundreds of to guarantee getting what they want. We have inventory limits that the whales can bypass by simply buying unlimited amounts of what they need. We have reward tiers that the whales can just buy their way to the top of. We have constraints on how much rewards flow into the game that the spenders can work around.
Spenders can do more than non-spenders can do, because that's how we encourage them to spend. To say that a game design decision is not valid because spending allows those decisions to be mitigated is simply not understanding how games like this work. *Every* decision can have its validity questioned like this. But game designers still have to design games with design rules nonetheless. They still have to balance their game economies nonetheless. They still have to implement controls and limits nonetheless.
So why are they using the "spamming of revives" as an excuse then? Because we can still do that by purchasing them. They haven't explicitly said "we want you to buy them" but they're quite clearly hoping that is what the outcome will achieve
So it's ok to spam units on revive promoting spending while is a bad thing to grind for revive like how the hell do this people come up with these theories.
while they do this to screw players who can't spend it, I wish they had the same commitment to screw the mercenaries who charge to do events, because you can be sure that they do you Lose more money than f2p players who used revive farming as an alternative to difficult content.
This will push people to use modders now. As there isn't much of a penalty for using them from what I've seen.
Not even gonna comment because I agree with probably everyone in the thread judging by the first 3 pages, I'm just patiently waiting for any Kabam employee on the forum to never adress the content of this thread.
I'm lost for words. Over the years I've seen them make some godawful decisions, but this one takes the cake!
At the current state of the game. The way it's crawling with modders in numbers like never before...
And you guys know what? I think I'm more sad than angry. Sad that this daily journey, the log ins thru weekends and holidays, the "keeping the alli together and growing", the having fun in something that for 6 years became part of my life...that's all coming to an end.
Just because of some massiv3 stupid decision making.
Couldn't kabam had to at least give us 3 revives for the quest instead of 1 per day it can lead to a gain of 72 revives per month (in terms of what they menitoned this don't come any closer)and half of it can't be kept because of it being expired and why are there alliance potions that people don't even regulary use In aq/aw just not needed
Those at the top of the game, will continue to complete new content on the day of the release. They have to make sure they have bestest rewards to keep their Alliance at the top of the game. And / or are YouTubers (except Brian Grant who’ll probably do the content 6 months after release) and need to do content early for their channel. Most other mere mortals of the game will need to make a decision. 1) Am I good enough to complete the content with the limited revive stash now available? 2) Am I going to spam Arena for units to trade for revives? 3) Am I going to buy units with real world money to trade for revives 4) Am I prepared to do none of the above and not complete the content at this time.
If people are going to choose option 4, what is the anchor to keep them playing the game? The paragon 4 hour crystals seemed to me have lower revive drop rate than the Thronebreaker ones, so stocking up on these isn’t that helpful. Although that’s just my anecdotal perception, I have no evidence to confirm this. Grind MEQ for years to rank up more champions? Play Battle Grounds instead (hahahahaha!!!!) battle grounds is broken and full of cheaters. There’s option 5) mod the game instead (Don’t cheat people, it’s morally wrong! Don’t do it). But ultimately if you can’t complete the game why play it. If I’m playing Super Mario World and it takes me 100 lives, why should Nintendo care how many revives it takes to complete as long as I’m playing and enjoying and then buy the next game.
I’m not as skilled as MSD so I should never have access to the rewards he can earn? Making sure the most Skilled get the best rewards are what Battle Grounds / Alliance War / Alliance Quest is for. The rewards at the top of the purely skill based nodes keeps us apart. Single player modes should be open to everyone. If I can pay to win it, I should be able to grind to win it too. If the response is “well just grind Arena and trade units for revives” then it defeats the whole purpose for this change!!!
There are so many parts to this game that is broken and this is where Kabam is putting its focus? This is a few weeks early for April Fools joke.
Wouldn't make more sense for the longevity of the game to first address the input/mod/disconnect issues before limiting our ability to farm revives? The timing of this announcement and the proposed implementation do not make any sense.
Wouldn't make more sense for the longevity of the game to first address the input/mod/disconnect issues before limiting our ability to farm revives? The timing of this announcement and the proposed implementation do not make any sense.
There logic only cares for money happy I’m stopped sucking in to them
Just make the best rewards in competitive stuff like AW and BGs instead of perma content. Then we dont have to complain since items arent used there anyway. Even tho ppl will argue how those contents suck until the end of time, i believe its the right answer
This is BY FAR the WORST thing kabam could do and will do to this game. Revive farming isn’t even 100% as it is now so why change it when it’s still costing time and energy?!?!
Just needed a reason to leave this game and this might be it. I am a guy who never even reads forum posts. I usually get my updates through youtube and this really upset me that much that I had to come here and post this.
I don't like this. Simple and straightforward. I saw freaking Papa X account that were alleged modder and video was shown as a proof too, and saw him on the leaderboard of Viv Vision arena in top positions. I mean so these kinda people continue to play the game, that guy legit took one spot away from everyone who grinded arena fairly.
These kinda changes only promote more of modders and arena bots because you are taking away something good from players who actually wants to log in to the game, play and farm revives to finish content legitimately rather than being lazy and use modding and never face any punishment.
Put revive use tiers on the content rewards. If you want the peak rewards, you have to have only used 0 - 3 revives, next tier you can use 4 - 10 revives or whatever.
Put out Everest content specific revives that you can grind for while the content is live. Make the grind worth it with no shortcuts.
For permanent content, unless you put another limit on the stash, you've made farming more inconvenient, but I'd still do it to the extent that the annoying stash limits allow and also made me think my money and gaming effort time might have more value in Punball and Street Fighter 6 (ZANGIEF!!!!!!) in the future.
The masochists and YouTubers that Hour 1/Day 1 all content no matter what, no matter how much it costs, won't care about this change. This will greatly impact people that only get around to looking into the Everest content for their progression level once the rewards get old and are on the cusp of not being worth the effort. Even then, still farm revives for it.
Kabam isn’t wrong. I farmed 300 potions + to do the carinas challenges for my rank 5. I also spent an entire week playing the game while I was at home and work. For a single parent I can’t just spend 500 bucks to complete content, and my name isn’t Lagacy, or Karatemike. Not everyone has that skill, or has whale money. I do however find TIME and usually STILL spend on this game when it’s worth it for an account like my size. I deal with more than 2500 modders in a brand new game mode that’s predicated on COMPETITION, I deal with all your input issues, crashing, bottled out, losing attack bonuses in war etc etc etc. You can’t let the other million players like me farm some revives? Everything in this game depreciates with enough time. So if I have one rank 5 or 10 in a month it won’t matter cause the value will go down. So you want people like me to spend on virtual items that depreciate without allowing us to progress at the rate we invest ourselves into the game without more road blocks? What a crock. This will literally ensure some people never progress beyond certain points and many will leave all together. Smooth as always, Kabam. You really know your stuff
Just a reminder, revives that exceed the inventory limit, can be stored for only 14 days. That's a total of 47 max revives , but for this one day the 1st extra revive expires. So if you re doing content that requires 50 revives for example, or if you re doing content that requires dashing forward but your champs are dashing backwards instead, or they throw heavies instead, or they fly upwards or whatever because of a bug that s not an input issue correctly categorized and kabam can't fix it because of the wrong category input, or the AI doesn t throw specials but that s not AI either, that s a bug in some other category, and that costs you 10 more of these so called revives, you can't do anything but to buy them, with units or money. Correct? Correct.
Comments
Also this makes no sense. Does revive farming actually prevent you from developing high difficulty content? Hard content naturally requires the use of revives, but in the past you have shown that some difficult fights are soloable and you have done this by giving summoners advantages and bonus attack during the fight if we perform certain actions. Like the grandmaster fight, intercepting and doing the correct actions on his special attacks, gives us higher damage tokens and makes the fight easier, but still quite challenging. Same with Gwenmaster, same with Kang(s). Eternity of pain on the other hand or the labryinth doesn't exactly reward summoners for performing certain actions, so naturally more revives are used. Obviously anyone could farm thousands of revives and slowly clip away at challenging content but I believe most of us find the right counters to make the fights fun rather than grinding, and then always having a good supply of revives in case we make the occassional mistake. Really don't see how you can make this connection.
At the current state of the game. The way it's crawling with modders in numbers like never before...
And you guys know what? I think I'm more sad than angry. Sad that this daily journey, the log ins thru weekends and holidays, the "keeping the alli together and growing", the having fun in something that for 6 years became part of my life...that's all coming to an end.
Just because of some massiv3 stupid decision making.
Oh. Who am I kidding? I'm extremely angry too!
In aq/aw just not needed
1) Am I good enough to complete the content with the limited revive stash now available?
2) Am I going to spam Arena for units to trade for revives?
3) Am I going to buy units with real world money to trade for revives
4) Am I prepared to do none of the above and not complete the content at this time.
If people are going to choose option 4, what is the anchor to keep them playing the game? The paragon 4 hour crystals seemed to me have lower revive drop rate than the Thronebreaker ones, so stocking up on these isn’t that helpful. Although that’s just my anecdotal perception, I have no evidence to confirm this. Grind MEQ for years to rank up more champions?
Play Battle Grounds instead (hahahahaha!!!!) battle grounds is broken and full of cheaters. There’s option 5) mod the game instead (Don’t cheat people, it’s morally wrong! Don’t do it). But ultimately if you can’t complete the game why play it. If I’m playing Super Mario World and it takes me 100 lives, why should Nintendo care how many revives it takes to complete as long as I’m playing and enjoying and then buy the next game.
I’m not as skilled as MSD so I should never have access to the rewards he can earn? Making sure the most Skilled get the best rewards are what Battle Grounds / Alliance War / Alliance Quest is for. The rewards at the top of the purely skill based nodes keeps us apart. Single player modes should be open to everyone. If I can pay to win it, I should be able to grind to win it too. If the response is “well just grind Arena and trade units for revives” then it defeats the whole purpose for this change!!!
There are so many parts to this game that is broken and this is where Kabam is putting its focus? This is a few weeks early for April Fools joke.
I don't like this. Simple and straightforward.
I saw freaking Papa X account that were alleged modder and video was shown as a proof too, and saw him on the leaderboard of Viv Vision arena in top positions. I mean so these kinda people continue to play the game, that guy legit took one spot away from everyone who grinded arena fairly.
These kinda changes only promote more of modders and arena bots because you are taking away something good from players who actually wants to log in to the game, play and farm revives to finish content legitimately rather than being lazy and use modding and never face any punishment.
Revive farm? Yup. Spend *because* I'm in this game so much? Yup.
Revive farming to do end game content, keeps me engaged.
Put out Everest content specific revives that you can grind for while the content is live. Make the grind worth it with no shortcuts.
For permanent content, unless you put another limit on the stash, you've made farming more inconvenient, but I'd still do it to the extent that the annoying stash limits allow and also made me think my money and gaming effort time might have more value in Punball and Street Fighter 6 (ZANGIEF!!!!!!) in the future.
The masochists and YouTubers that Hour 1/Day 1 all content no matter what, no matter how much it costs, won't care about this change. This will greatly impact people that only get around to looking into the Everest content for their progression level once the rewards get old and are on the cusp of not being worth the effort. Even then, still farm revives for it.