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Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

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Comments

  • HSS75HSS75 Member Posts: 1,161 ★★★
    I agree, honestly those are better than the quest they want to put in the game
  • Aomine_Daiki10Aomine_Daiki10 Member Posts: 1,653 ★★★★★
    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    FiiNCH said:

    DNA3000 said:

    FiiNCH said:

    DNA3000 said:

    37v417 said:

    What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.

    How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
    People trying to complete content with no access to farming revives perhaps..
    Just "people?" Sure, but which people who don't have access to farming revives? Everyone keeps saying this is a cash grab. But how many of them are actually planning on spending cash because of this cash grab?

    It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.

    I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.

    Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.

    If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.

    The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.

    So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.

    This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.

    I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.
    Sorry @DNA3000 - I don’t agree with your logic here.

    As someone said earlier, if Kabam want us to (in their words) ‘stop spamming revives’, then why don’t they put an item limit on quests. They’ve removed the ftp farming option but kept the pay to win option. So it appears they don’t want us to stop spamming, they just want us to pay for it.
    They could just ban items altogether from top tier content. Not only would this eliminate the farming problem, but it would literally dunk on the players claiming that this was a "cash grab."

    That's what I would do. Kabam is just reducing farming rather than eliminating it and is continuing to allow players to use items in top tier content because they have more mercy than I do.

    As to "keeping the pay to win option" yeah, they still allow people to actually buy things and use things. Because if they don't, the game will die. That's true everywhere. We have random crystals that the whales can just buy hundreds of to guarantee getting what they want. We have inventory limits that the whales can bypass by simply buying unlimited amounts of what they need. We have reward tiers that the whales can just buy their way to the top of. We have constraints on how much rewards flow into the game that the spenders can work around.

    Spenders can do more than non-spenders can do, because that's how we encourage them to spend. To say that a game design decision is not valid because spending allows those decisions to be mitigated is simply not understanding how games like this work. *Every* decision can have its validity questioned like this. But game designers still have to design games with design rules nonetheless. They still have to balance their game economies nonetheless. They still have to implement controls and limits nonetheless.
    So why are they using the "spamming of revives" as an excuse then? Because we can still do that by purchasing them. They haven't explicitly said "we want you to buy them" but they're quite clearly hoping that is what the outcome will achieve
    So it's ok to spam units on revive promoting spending while is a bad thing to grind for revive like how the hell do this people come up with these theories.
  • Zuko_ILCZuko_ILC Member Posts: 1,518 ★★★★★
    PSYKEOP said:

    while they do this to screw players who can't spend it, I wish they had the same commitment to screw the mercenaries who charge to do events, because you can be sure that they do you Lose more money than f2p players who used revive farming as an alternative to difficult content.

    This will push people to use modders now. As there isn't much of a penalty for using them from what I've seen.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • Chief_primeChief_prime Member Posts: 72 ★★
    I'm lost for words. Over the years I've seen them make some godawful decisions, but this one takes the cake!

    At the current state of the game. The way it's crawling with modders in numbers like never before...

    And you guys know what? I think I'm more sad than angry. Sad that this daily journey, the log ins thru weekends and holidays, the "keeping the alli together and growing", the having fun in something that for 6 years became part of my life...that's all coming to an end.

    Just because of some massiv3 stupid decision making.

    Oh. Who am I kidding? I'm extremely angry too!

  • HSS75HSS75 Member Posts: 1,161 ★★★
    edited March 2023
    Couldn't kabam had to at least give us 3 revives for the quest instead of 1 per day it can lead to a gain of 72 revives per month (in terms of what they menitoned this don't come any closer)and half of it can't be kept because of it being expired and why are there alliance potions that people don't even regulary use
    In aq/aw just not needed
  • GamerGamer Member Posts: 11,277 ★★★★★
    pfm007 said:

    Wouldn't make more sense for the longevity of the game to first address the input/mod/disconnect issues before limiting our ability to farm revives? The timing of this announcement and the proposed implementation do not make any sense.

    There logic only cares for money happy I’m stopped sucking in to them
  • GrassKnucklesGrassKnuckles Member Posts: 1,951 ★★★★★
    Just make the best rewards in competitive stuff like AW and BGs instead of perma content. Then we dont have to complain since items arent used there anyway. Even tho ppl will argue how those contents suck until the end of time, i believe its the right answer
  • 11993451199345 Member Posts: 558 ★★★
    At least it's a guaranteed way to get revives (other than spending units). Silver linings...
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Oh boy this is so bad.. for a "Free" game
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • GamerGamer Member Posts: 11,277 ★★★★★
    edited March 2023
    Gercas said:

    Spamming revives is bad for hard content unless you bought them with two odins then yes you can spam revives on hard content.

    How ironic. Is there close two game in like 1 year in between just to probably end op with mcoc to dying
This discussion has been closed.