Never said they did, but when they kill their game with greed I’ll be here to watch
They have been running a Mobile Game for 8 years, I think they know well what they can and cant do
What kabam aren't taking into consideration is that a huge amount of people picked this game up during the pandemic as they had more time on their hands (like myself), most of these players have done end game content with the farming method there. So I know I can say with full honesty that the 3.2.6 farming has been the only way I've known of preparing for endgame content.
That said, I agree we shouldn't be able to farm hundreds of revives in like a day or 2 (I never did this anyway), on average I'd maybe get myself 10 a day when preparing for bigger content, now bare in mind this isn't everyday, only when preparing for that content. Have I done more than that? Yes, I won't sit here n lie about it. But when you consider that, we are now getting 1 per day (possibly 2 if you have time to do the solo events) so even this isn't acceptable for those sort of players. I think 2 per day from apothecary is a good middle ground considering what we could get before this nerf. Again, it's no use relaying back how it is use to be well before the 3.2.6 method as I wasn't around and most who aren't happy about the changes wasn't around, also, it's in the past.
They need to adapt to the time just as much as we need to adapt to not having 10/15 revive per day. Their content needs to be retuned to require less revives or up the amount if revives we get further form this revised one. Something has to give
Never said they did, but when they kill their game with greed I’ll be here to watch
They have been running a Mobile Game for 8 years, I think they know well what they can and cant do
What kabam aren't taking into consideration is that a huge amount of people picked this game up during the pandemic as they had more time on their hands (like myself), most of these players have done end game content with the farming method there. So I know I can say with full honesty that the 3.2.6 farming has been the only way I've known of preparing for endgame content.
I'm glad that you say this, because it gives me the opportunity to express my alternative view:
I didn't pick up the game during the pandemic, I was playing previously to that. I discovered revive farming in 3.2.6 VERY late in my progression. I practically used it to prepare for the repetitive runs on Kangs in Act 7 exploration. I have explored Book 2 100% (so far). Additionally, I have done Labyrinth 100% and all Variants explored 100% (except V1). Yes, I'm well aware the newest players in the game do not bother either with Variants or Labyrinth nowadays.
But the point in my post is that I have explored all this content WITHOUT ever using the 3.2.6 revive farming. I did it the hard way, with units. And not bought units either. I did it with FARMED UNITS, via Arena and the various game modes. It took time...? Sure. Did I do it? You bet I did.
Apparenly we have a new generation of players who are not familiar with a different approach. And furthermore, the do not seem to want to learn and definitely do not want to put the TIME it requires, to build up resources and your roster, to tackle hard content (by the way, this is not a direct attack to you, I'm just generalising here).
Summary: you can STILL do all this content. The changes in inventory limits and especially the 22hr L2 revives provide this opportunity. Yes, I know they do not seem enough. For me, they are.
P.S.: I absolutely LOVE Lagacy's latest video on the subject , where he starts complaining that the proposed solution by Kabam is not enough for most players and by the end of the video, doing his calculations, he comes to realise that these changes ensures that he will have enough resources to tackle even the next Abyss, when it arrives. I mean, if 70-80 revives are not enough for a Carina's challenges for me, perhaps I shouldn't bother with it...
Never said they did, but when they kill their game with greed I’ll be here to watch
They have been running a Mobile Game for 8 years, I think they know well what they can and cant do
What kabam aren't taking into consideration is that a huge amount of people picked this game up during the pandemic as they had more time on their hands (like myself), most of these players have done end game content with the farming method there. So I know I can say with full honesty that the 3.2.6 farming has been the only way I've known of preparing for endgame content.
I'm glad that you say this, because it gives me the opportunity to express my alternative view:
I didn't pick up the game during the pandemic, I was playing previously to that. I discovered revive farming in 3.2.6 VERY late in my progression. I practically used it to prepare for the repetitive runs on Kangs in Act 7 exploration. I have explored Book 2 100% (so far). Additionally, I have done Labyrinth 100% and all Variants explored 100% (except V1). Yes, I'm well aware the newest players in the game do not bother either with Variants or Labyrinth nowadays.
But the point in my post is that I have explored all this content WITHOUT ever using the 3.2.6 revive farming. I did it the hard way, with units. And not bought units either. I did it with FARMED UNITS, via Arena and the various game modes. It took time...? Sure. Did I do it? You bet I did.
Apparenly we have a new generation of players who are not familiar with a different approach. And furthermore, the do not seem to want to learn and definitely do not want to put the TIME it requires, to build up resources and your roster, to tackle hard content (by the way, this is not a direct attack to you, I'm just generalising here).
Summary: you can STILL do all this content. The changes in inventory limits and especially the 22hr L2 revives provide this opportunity. Yes, I know they do not seem enough. For me, they are.
P.S.: I absolutely LOVE Lagacy's latest video on the subject , where he starts complaining that the proposed solution by Kabam is not enough for most players and by the end of the video, doing his calculations, he comes to realise that these changes ensures that he will have enough resources to tackle even the next Abyss, when it arrives. I mean, if 70-80 revives are not enough for a Carina's challenges for me, perhaps I shouldn't bother with it...
Good to see an objective view from someone who was here prior to this "farming frenzy". Personally I've only ever used 3.2.6 to farm for the likes of endgame content, I've not really needed many items/resources for the story content, I have also done Variants (not explored them all mind, but then the rewards are pretty pointless to me at this point). I do genuinely wonder how many of the playerbase are players that was before the covid thing and how many are since that point. I just think that kabam should take more consideration for those who have only known that way. Again I don't think we should be able to mindlessly farm revives, that's not good.
The thing I keep asking myself is "why is this as big a problem now opposed to 12 months ago" .... I honestly think its because people can hit 2 objectives of Carina Vol 3 (double juggs or rogue/sw) with a silly amount of revives and next to no skill, something which I think kabam never intended for and/or overlooked and now lots of people are doing just that, I honestly don't see a single run obj being the issue more than that, a double run, in theory, should be a very costly thing to do whether that be by units or by money/units yet they're probably not getting anything for these double runs because of 3.2.6.
Sorry, just to add, I've been using on average around 30/40 revives per obj run of EoP so I'm not saying that I personally need more. Currently got 2 runs left and I admit, I have been farming like mad since the original post
Probably been said already but instead of a Level 2 revive in solo events, make it two Level 1s. I’d rather revive twice than once. Just my opinion.
Side note. Psychologically I do better with an L1. For some reason, I'm just used to the pressure.
Probably because we all tend to have a supply of L1s so we can just pop another. When you're down to that last L2 though 😬 you crack and die. I'm the same 🤣
Probably been said already but instead of a Level 2 revive in solo events, make it two Level 1s. I’d rather revive twice than once. Just my opinion.
Side note. Psychologically I do better with an L1. For some reason, I'm just used to the pressure.
Probably because we all tend to have a supply of L1s so we can just pop another. When you're down to that last L2 though 😬 you crack and die. I'm the same 🤣
Actually, it's the pressure of having little chance. More of a fight or flight thing.
Probably been said already but instead of a Level 2 revive in solo events, make it two Level 1s. I’d rather revive twice than once. Just my opinion.
This defeats the entire purpose of why they made it an L2 though. It's not an L2 purely because it revives for more, it's an L2 because it doesn't compete with inventory space of an L1. Plus, a lot of people have already said they're happy about an L2 because it's better for basically any champ that isn't herc.
I think the new direction would be a fair one, and one they would have landed on if they consulted with their CCP prior to force feeding us the Apothecary with L1s Heal pots being anywhere in the sales pitch.
I don’t agree with a lot of their points for reason to make this change and it’s been better captured by others like the fact that the champs are currently the main selling point for this game, and without new content they loose a sales pitch, ultimately making that a pretty empty threat. That said, I can tolerate it, because ultimately 100s of free revives devalues progression in this game, and progression is a design element that keep this fun.
What still bothers me is the full steam ahead approach on the implementation of this now admittedly poor solution. For it to get a follow up post where deficiencies are acknowledged and corrections are offered up, tells us that they know this was at a minimum a miscalculation on their part. Again, it’s just bull **** the Apothecary goes live without the other aspects being implemented. And we should keep banging our drums for concrete goals and updates on the potion economy, because it’s likely to be ignored like it has for the last 3 years if we don’t. Seriously the fact that they didn’t even realize that an L1 heal potion was utterly insulting makes it seem like they haven’t played the game since 2018
I'm sorry, but I have to say it. In over 7 years of playing this game, there has never been a source of Revs and Pots that paid out like that farm. People can debate that the content demands it, but in all those years, we've never seen numbers of people push through the highest content like we have as of late. You don't need back-end data to see that. You have people sharing their progress in a number of outlets. Further to that, you have YouTube and other social media venues sharing information, as they do. Which is great. It's as it should be. When you have something like this, it becomes an increasingly compounded problem. More and more people just brute force through the content with an abnormal amount of Revives. As much as it seems somehow exclusive, that many people aren't meant to do the highest challenge right away. That's dangerous for the game design and it's unhealthy for the overall progress of Players because you end up with a top-heavy demographic and a rush for balancing and further content. Then we have issues like large numbers of Players at varying levels of progress all trying to get what they need in the same bubble. That amount of farming Resources has never been intended. It might as well be said directly rather than split hairs about what the objectives actually are. People are either at the point where they can do it as efficiently as possible, or they need to work towards it. What isn't a part of the design is allowing as many people as possible to do it all at once because that's not the intent of "Everest" content. It's exclusive by design. Feel free to click the Disagree, but someone has to be realistic.
This is incorrect while gifting was a thing many people paid bots for revives. It was a much shorter time that you could not get lots of revives. I do agree that it was not meant for how it was used by many, but assumed that they kept the revives due to core gameplay being fundamentally broken, which is still the case.
I wouldn't call paying bots an example of what is intended. That was also the source of Fraud.
Kabam was comprehensive and made changes so the nerf is not that huge, now is time for the players to be comprehensive and understand that more than this is more than needed.
No, they promised to make changes after they get their way. Hard to trust a company that had to be persuaded to get tough on cheaters, still hasn’t done anything to account for player fist due inputs, and still haven’t delivered in things like “help all” and “wish crystals”.
It’s not a compromise unless they delay the changes to be implemented with the pro-player changes.
Also vague promises to look at the potion economy isn’t enough. More detail is needed to give us an idea about why this might take 6 months?
Are they going to slightly increase potions spawning in end game areas? Are they going to just address values? It’s just a vague, “we heard you and agree, it’s been neglected”
Increasing cap to 20 and making 22H Revives to Lvl 2 is pretty decent change from where we were, and its enough to do the content, and you will have to use less pots if you use lvl 2 revives.
Asking for more when they explained everything pretty well I think is too greedy.
Wish Crystals are worse than actual Dual crystals since you can target champs more specifically, they already explained it.
And I think they dont have to explain anything else, why it takes 6 months? Becuase it takes 6 months. The end.
They have more things to care about right now, so It will take more time than it can because they are not investing all their resources into that.
The fact that they dont delay that its because it is necessary for them to remove revive farming now.
Players complain too much for everything, looks like everybody prefers content to not be released instead of getting revive farming reworked.
I didn’t state that it wasn’t fair. I said their timeline is not a compromise, because it isn’t. They took 9 days to come back and basically say “too bad soo sad we are doing this when we want”. But then said here’s some carrots if you guys stick around like good little lambs because we promise that pro player changes are coming.
My premise is that’s bull ****. And they wasted 9 days where this change could have been put on pause or delayed until the other elements were ready as well. That simple
Yeah but this change was going to be implemented, no matter what, because it was needed for their dev projects, I think that we are going to have this new changes they announced is enough, it could be better? yeah, but now is when we have to be comprehensive aswell
If you truly believe it could be better then why are you rolling over? At the end of the day this company needs us more than we need them. If everyone who thinks "it could be better but it's better than nothing so we will accept" sticks with that then it's a win for kabam and nothing else will change. If you still aren't happy then say so this game cannot operate without us the players, we don't need them. Rather infuriating that people are rolling over despite it being a negligible increase from the original nerf
Because I prefer to keep playing the game, if they do what its good for us but not for the game, the game will be closed in less than a year
So if you said it could be better would it be fair to also say its not good enough? For you, the player
If making it better for us would make it worse for the game overall, I prefer what they bring instead of what we could want
It’s insane that this comment only has disagrees. It literally shows people would rather have a broken game that they can do whatever they want in for 6 months than a sustainable, balanced game that lasts for years to come.
I feel bad for people with this mentality. It’s like only instant gratification will ever appease you.
What it actually shows is that people disagree that it's a black or white situation as that guy portrayed it as. It's not Kabam's way or our way, it's about balance and neither of the proposals being implemented (next build or a month later with the next build after) are considered suitable compromises by the majority of the community involved in this discussion, given the current game environment.
What would you suggest that would be implemented immediately? Given the fact that design takes time to implement, what do you propose they do that can be immediately executed? As I see it, they're offering a compromise in as speedy a time as possible. Leaving the farm open is just not on the table. We might as well move past that one.
Probably been said already but instead of a Level 2 revive in solo events, make it two Level 1s. I’d rather revive twice than once. Just my opinion.
This defeats the entire purpose of why they made it an L2 though. It's not an L2 purely because it revives for more, it's an L2 because it doesn't compete with inventory space of an L1. Plus, a lot of people have already said they're happy about an L2 because it's better for basically any champ that isn't herc.
Whether it’s Herc or not, I’d rather revive twice than once.
Kabam was comprehensive and made changes so the nerf is not that huge, now is time for the players to be comprehensive and understand that more than this is more than needed.
No, they promised to make changes after they get their way. Hard to trust a company that had to be persuaded to get tough on cheaters, still hasn’t done anything to account for player fist due inputs, and still haven’t delivered in things like “help all” and “wish crystals”.
It’s not a compromise unless they delay the changes to be implemented with the pro-player changes.
Also vague promises to look at the potion economy isn’t enough. More detail is needed to give us an idea about why this might take 6 months?
Are they going to slightly increase potions spawning in end game areas? Are they going to just address values? It’s just a vague, “we heard you and agree, it’s been neglected”
Increasing cap to 20 and making 22H Revives to Lvl 2 is pretty decent change from where we were, and its enough to do the content, and you will have to use less pots if you use lvl 2 revives.
Asking for more when they explained everything pretty well I think is too greedy.
Wish Crystals are worse than actual Dual crystals since you can target champs more specifically, they already explained it.
And I think they dont have to explain anything else, why it takes 6 months? Becuase it takes 6 months. The end.
They have more things to care about right now, so It will take more time than it can because they are not investing all their resources into that.
The fact that they dont delay that its because it is necessary for them to remove revive farming now.
Players complain too much for everything, looks like everybody prefers content to not be released instead of getting revive farming reworked.
I didn’t state that it wasn’t fair. I said their timeline is not a compromise, because it isn’t. They took 9 days to come back and basically say “too bad soo sad we are doing this when we want”. But then said here’s some carrots if you guys stick around like good little lambs because we promise that pro player changes are coming.
My premise is that’s bull ****. And they wasted 9 days where this change could have been put on pause or delayed until the other elements were ready as well. That simple
Yeah but this change was going to be implemented, no matter what, because it was needed for their dev projects, I think that we are going to have this new changes they announced is enough, it could be better? yeah, but now is when we have to be comprehensive aswell
If you truly believe it could be better then why are you rolling over? At the end of the day this company needs us more than we need them. If everyone who thinks "it could be better but it's better than nothing so we will accept" sticks with that then it's a win for kabam and nothing else will change. If you still aren't happy then say so this game cannot operate without us the players, we don't need them. Rather infuriating that people are rolling over despite it being a negligible increase from the original nerf
Because I prefer to keep playing the game, if they do what its good for us but not for the game, the game will be closed in less than a year
So if you said it could be better would it be fair to also say its not good enough? For you, the player
If making it better for us would make it worse for the game overall, I prefer what they bring instead of what we could want
It’s insane that this comment only has disagrees. It literally shows people would rather have a broken game that they can do whatever they want in for 6 months than a sustainable, balanced game that lasts for years to come.
I feel bad for people with this mentality. It’s like only instant gratification will ever appease you.
What it actually shows is that people disagree that it's a black or white situation as that guy portrayed it as. It's not Kabam's way or our way, it's about balance and neither of the proposals being implemented (next build or a month later with the next build after) are considered suitable compromises by the majority of the community involved in this discussion, given the current game environment.
I agree with this. And in a snapshot, I agree that just what I quoted doesn't inherently show that people only want what I mentioned. But reading through the comments, seeing posts like "you shouldn't be able to get that many revives in such a short time" have over a 2-1 dislike ratio, it's fairly clear people lean towards a broken game than a balanced one. I truly do believe that a lot of people with this mentality are a younger generation that thrives on instant satisfaction vs actually putting in effort to farm or create skill to do content without 200 revives stored.
But that is also clear bias on my part, so maybe I'm wrong. I've stated before that I'm not 100% happy with the current change Kabam has planned, I hope they continue to work on it. But I'd rather have what they're implementing than an unlimited revive farm that massively trivializes everest content.
Probably been said already but instead of a Level 2 revive in solo events, make it two Level 1s. I’d rather revive twice than once. Just my opinion.
This defeats the entire purpose of why they made it an L2 though. It's not an L2 purely because it revives for more, it's an L2 because it doesn't compete with inventory space of an L1. Plus, a lot of people have already said they're happy about an L2 because it's better for basically any champ that isn't herc.
Whether it’s Herc or not, I’d rather revive twice than once.
Again, main point was not to compete with inventory space with the L1 revives from the daily farm. What is difficult to grasp about this?
It has nothing to do with Herc and I probably shouldn't have mentioned that in the first place so people could conveniently ignore the other part of what I said.
Probably been said already but instead of a Level 2 revive in solo events, make it two Level 1s. I’d rather revive twice than once. Just my opinion.
This defeats the entire purpose of why they made it an L2 though. It's not an L2 purely because it revives for more, it's an L2 because it doesn't compete with inventory space of an L1. Plus, a lot of people have already said they're happy about an L2 because it's better for basically any champ that isn't herc.
Whether it’s Herc or not, I’d rather revive twice than once.
Again, main point was not to compete with inventory space with the L1 revives from the daily farm. What is difficult to grasp about this?
It has nothing to do with Herc and I probably shouldn't have mentioned that in the first place so people could conveniently ignore the other part of what I said.
I get that point as well but even if it takes up extra space, I’d rather have two instead of one. Not trying to conveniently ignore any part of your argument.
Probably been said already but instead of a Level 2 revive in solo events, make it two Level 1s. I’d rather revive twice than once. Just my opinion.
This defeats the entire purpose of why they made it an L2 though. It's not an L2 purely because it revives for more, it's an L2 because it doesn't compete with inventory space of an L1. Plus, a lot of people have already said they're happy about an L2 because it's better for basically any champ that isn't herc.
Whether it’s Herc or not, I’d rather revive twice than once.
Again, main point was not to compete with inventory space with the L1 revives from the daily farm. What is difficult to grasp about this?
It has nothing to do with Herc and I probably shouldn't have mentioned that in the first place so people could conveniently ignore the other part of what I said.
I get that point as well but even if it takes up extra space, I’d rather have two instead of one. Not trying to conveniently ignore any part of your argument.
Most people aren't in the same boat as you for the reason people generally farm revives, end game content. They want to be able to stack as many revives as they can, not get as many revives as they can in a short time. Less inventory space being taken up equates to be able to stack more in total for when you're using them for end game content.
Plus, I simply think a lot of people disagree with you in that they'd rather revive at 40% health once instead of 20% health twice (again, unless herc is a factor). When you're playing skillfully, the majority of damage you're taking is into block. 20% additional health will equate to a lot of extra blocks you're able to take.
You know... I would also love to see these goals. 👀
So would I, but we're never likely going to see them.
I don't think the content design goals look like anything players are imagining them to look like. I imagine players are thinking that the content is designed to "take so many revives" and anyone who spends more is spending more than intended, and anyone who spends less is doing better than they expected.
That's almost certainly *not* how the content is designed. There's no specific expectation of resource usage for any one player. Rather, they expect a certain percentage of the target player group to beat it, and a certain percentage to fail to complete it. They expect harder content to have more resources spent on it than easier content, not because they are trying to make hard content that eats resources from players, but because that's part of the *definition* of harder content. If the rewards are desirable and the content is harder, players will spend more to complete it because they will be willing to do so.
So the targets are more likely to be statistical, and due to their interrelated nature with other factors, unlikely to be meaningful without context. You'd need to know what the intended target of the content was, what the histographical distribution of that target audience was within the playerbase, the historical tendencies of those players to tackle similar content, among other things to give the design goals sufficient background. Some of which will be proprietary, and some of which will not be in an exportable form.
Im gonna reach out in good faith. Would you be willing to debate me on this subject live? No personal attacks. No dogpiles. No gas lighting. We can go line by line about our disagreements in a healthy discussion about the topic and greater context of the changes as a whole. I think flushing these points out in good detail would benefit the community as a whole (you could flush out details of your points un-interupted while I could do the same for my criticisms). We could also work toward something more palatable for the community after the debate portion. I imagine we could come up with a good idea or two
I'm not sure what you mean by "live" but if you wish to discuss this subject off the public threads, simply PM me.
Still pretty garbage. A slight easing of restrictions, which we all knew was coming, and we just have to accept it.
In this post you stated that in your opinion, 6-8 revives grindable from the Apothecary would be fair to players. That would imply that a player without the Sigil would be able to accumulate 15 revives in inventory and then between 60 and 80 revives during a 14 day window from the Apothecary. That would be between 75 and 95 revives.
Under the new proposed system, a player without the Sigil would be able to accumulate 20 level 1 revives and 20 level 2 revives in non-expiring inventory alone. They would also be able to farm 14 level 1 revives from the Apothecary (since it would now be open seven days a week), and in theory up to 14 additional level 2 revives from 22 hr solo events. That's between 54 and 68 revives, depending on how many 22 hour events you could grab the revives from. The revive shows up in milestone 3 of the 22hr solo event, so that's not particularly hard to get.
Your own suggestion implied a 75 to 95 revive stockpile achievable. The modifications announced allow for 68 revives, half of which would be L2 revives. That's actually pretty close in value, and arguably better value than the low end of your own range.
They kept it at 1, so nowhere near 6-8. Increasing the cap doesn't change how much you ccan earn in a day.
If you're not going to reply to the content of my posts, it would be more efficient to not quote them.
If you actually are replying to the content of my posts, and you simply think it is self-evident that doubling the amount of revives farmable per day is insignificant if they don't also nerf the added revives down to L1 from L2, then maybe stop doing that also.
Tough ol day at the office for the @DNA3000 ’s of the world who tried to say this wasn’t about money when the follow up post basically said… it’s about money
Actually, neither I nor the adjustment post actually said that. In fact, the follow up post basically stated stuff I've been saying for years now, and in particular about this situation. For example, left as an exercise for the reader is to find any of my posts attempting to answer the question: why not use item caps.
The announcement added some official imprimatur to what I've been saying if anything. I wouldn't say the game economy designers agree with me all the time, but we do speak different dialects of the same language.
Man, as someone who just became Thronebreaker and thus just gained access to Carina's challenges and Grandmaster's Gauntlet/EoP, I have ZERO desire to try for any of this content, knowing I won't be able to have a surplus of revives, which to be fair, is how a lot of people were even able to accomplish any of them in the first place.
I can’t believe this is still going ahead against all the backlash, and with everything that will be coming up to be sold, like seatin said, relics, 7*, r5 materials for 6*
The implications of this change are two-fold: how this is going to impact pre-existing content, and how it's going to impact future content.
The issue right now is that right now most of the end game content, i.e. LoL, AoL and the Carina's Challenges are revive sinks and were designed as such. It didn't matter how skilled you were it was impossible to get through LoL on release without a significant revive investment, the same went for AoL and all of the LoL/Abyss/EoP Carina's Challenges. As someone who has completed all of the above with the exception of the Star Lord and Inhuman LoL challenges, this doesn't affect me too much - I'm probably not going to complete those two challenges because it's not worth the rewards at this stage in the game anyway, 'free' revives or not. For arguably 90% of the player base who haven't 100% Abyss and Carina V2 and V3, this leaves a significant amount of end game content designed to be a revive/unit sink with an economy that significantly reduces access to revives, unless you are an avid arena grinder or are going to be extremely efficient in how you prepare for challenge-content. This issue is compounded when you look at the rewards that are on offer for those pieces of content in today's economy: they're just not really worth it anymore if you've got to pay a significant revive/unit tax for completion. Players just aren't going to do it. Abyss and LoL will and have got easier as time has progressed through powering up champions, but the Carina elements are stuck at a point in time and will pretty much never get easier. Other content like the Variants are pretty easy today so the outdated rewards don't really matter as most players can probably get through them fairly easily once their rosters are developed and will still be engaged with.
How this change will impact future content depends very much on how that content is designed. I agree to an extent with Kabam's mindset that you shouldn't just be able to throw 100 revives at a challenge and brute force it with Hercules because that does trivialise the content and must make it very difficult to plan content. The flip side, however, is that much of the end-game content has been designed to be impossible and by extension is only possible by throwing revives at the problem, unless you are someone like MSD, which even most of the T1 war players are not. I realise that there is a balancing act that Kabam have got to walk with their content design; it needs to be hard but not impossible, and in my opinion, it should be completable without revives being the only answer - so no enrage timers/hit counters etc. if that is the design philosophy going forwards then this change, in combination with the 22 hour updates could make this change feel less punitive than it does at the moment.
If the potion revamp could be brought forward, which I think it an extremely important change then that will have a significant impact on revive use. Had it been implemented before Carina V3, then I think that this revive scare would have been a significantly smaller problem for Kabam as in its current iteration it's far more efficient to just 20% revive and do what damage you can rather than healing fully because access to potions above Lv3 come once per day through the 22hr events, 4hour or units.
The implications of this change are two-fold: how this is going to impact pre-existing content, and how it's going to impact future content.
The issue right now is that right now most of the end game content, i.e. LoL, AoL and the Carina's Challenges are revive sinks and were designed as such. It didn't matter how skilled you were it was impossible to get through LoL on release without a significant revive investment, the same went for AoL and all of the LoL/Abyss/EoP Carina's Challenges.
I was so excited to finally get to Carina's challenges and AoL/Gauntlet etc.
Now, I won't even touch them because I'm not about to waste all my units, or real $$, on a bunch of revives.
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That said, I agree we shouldn't be able to farm hundreds of revives in like a day or 2 (I never did this anyway), on average I'd maybe get myself 10 a day when preparing for bigger content, now bare in mind this isn't everyday, only when preparing for that content. Have I done more than that? Yes, I won't sit here n lie about it. But when you consider that, we are now getting 1 per day (possibly 2 if you have time to do the solo events) so even this isn't acceptable for those sort of players. I think 2 per day from apothecary is a good middle ground considering what we could get before this nerf. Again, it's no use relaying back how it is use to be well before the 3.2.6 method as I wasn't around and most who aren't happy about the changes wasn't around, also, it's in the past.
They need to adapt to the time just as much as we need to adapt to not having 10/15 revive per day. Their content needs to be retuned to require less revives or up the amount if revives we get further form this revised one. Something has to give
I didn't pick up the game during the pandemic, I was playing previously to that.
I discovered revive farming in 3.2.6 VERY late in my progression. I practically used it to prepare for the repetitive runs on Kangs in Act 7 exploration. I have explored Book 2 100% (so far).
Additionally, I have done Labyrinth 100% and all Variants explored 100% (except V1). Yes, I'm well aware the newest players in the game do not bother either with Variants or Labyrinth nowadays.
But the point in my post is that I have explored all this content WITHOUT ever using the 3.2.6 revive farming. I did it the hard way, with units. And not bought units either. I did it with FARMED UNITS, via Arena and the various game modes. It took time...? Sure. Did I do it? You bet I did.
Apparenly we have a new generation of players who are not familiar with a different approach. And furthermore, the do not seem to want to learn and definitely do not want to put the TIME it requires, to build up resources and your roster, to tackle hard content (by the way, this is not a direct attack to you, I'm just generalising here).
Summary: you can STILL do all this content. The changes in inventory limits and especially the 22hr L2 revives provide this opportunity. Yes, I know they do not seem enough. For me, they are.
P.S.: I absolutely LOVE Lagacy's latest video on the subject , where he starts complaining that the proposed solution by Kabam is not enough for most players and by the end of the video, doing his calculations, he comes to realise that these changes ensures that he will have enough resources to tackle even the next Abyss, when it arrives. I mean, if 70-80 revives are not enough for a Carina's challenges for me, perhaps I shouldn't bother with it...
The thing I keep asking myself is "why is this as big a problem now opposed to 12 months ago" .... I honestly think its because people can hit 2 objectives of Carina Vol 3 (double juggs or rogue/sw) with a silly amount of revives and next to no skill, something which I think kabam never intended for and/or overlooked and now lots of people are doing just that, I honestly don't see a single run obj being the issue more than that, a double run, in theory, should be a very costly thing to do whether that be by units or by money/units yet they're probably not getting anything for these double runs because of 3.2.6.
Sorry, just to add, I've been using on average around 30/40 revives per obj run of EoP so I'm not saying that I personally need more. Currently got 2 runs left and I admit, I have been farming like mad since the original post
I don’t agree with a lot of their points for reason to make this change and it’s been better captured by others like the fact that the champs are currently the main selling point for this game, and without new content they loose a sales pitch, ultimately making that a pretty empty threat. That said, I can tolerate it, because ultimately 100s of free revives devalues progression in this game, and progression is a design element that keep this fun.
What still bothers me is the full steam ahead approach on the implementation of this now admittedly poor solution. For it to get a follow up post where deficiencies are acknowledged and corrections are offered up, tells us that they know this was at a minimum a miscalculation on their part. Again, it’s just bull **** the Apothecary goes live without the other aspects being implemented. And we should keep banging our drums for concrete goals and updates on the potion economy, because it’s likely to be ignored like it has for the last 3 years if we don’t. Seriously the fact that they didn’t even realize that an L1 heal potion was utterly insulting makes it seem like they haven’t played the game since 2018
As I see it, they're offering a compromise in as speedy a time as possible.
Leaving the farm open is just not on the table. We might as well move past that one.
But that is also clear bias on my part, so maybe I'm wrong. I've stated before that I'm not 100% happy with the current change Kabam has planned, I hope they continue to work on it. But I'd rather have what they're implementing than an unlimited revive farm that massively trivializes everest content.
It has nothing to do with Herc and I probably shouldn't have mentioned that in the first place so people could conveniently ignore the other part of what I said.
Plus, I simply think a lot of people disagree with you in that they'd rather revive at 40% health once instead of 20% health twice (again, unless herc is a factor). When you're playing skillfully, the majority of damage you're taking is into block. 20% additional health will equate to a lot of extra blocks you're able to take.
If you actually are replying to the content of my posts, and you simply think it is self-evident that doubling the amount of revives farmable per day is insignificant if they don't also nerf the added revives down to L1 from L2, then maybe stop doing that also.
The announcement added some official imprimatur to what I've been saying if anything. I wouldn't say the game economy designers agree with me all the time, but we do speak different dialects of the same language.
What a bummer. Could not have been worse timing.
It’s quite outrageous how we are being treated.
The issue right now is that right now most of the end game content, i.e. LoL, AoL and the Carina's Challenges are revive sinks and were designed as such. It didn't matter how skilled you were it was impossible to get through LoL on release without a significant revive investment, the same went for AoL and all of the LoL/Abyss/EoP Carina's Challenges.
As someone who has completed all of the above with the exception of the Star Lord and Inhuman LoL challenges, this doesn't affect me too much - I'm probably not going to complete those two challenges because it's not worth the rewards at this stage in the game anyway, 'free' revives or not. For arguably 90% of the player base who haven't 100% Abyss and Carina V2 and V3, this leaves a significant amount of end game content designed to be a revive/unit sink with an economy that significantly reduces access to revives, unless you are an avid arena grinder or are going to be extremely efficient in how you prepare for challenge-content.
This issue is compounded when you look at the rewards that are on offer for those pieces of content in today's economy: they're just not really worth it anymore if you've got to pay a significant revive/unit tax for completion. Players just aren't going to do it. Abyss and LoL will and have got easier as time has progressed through powering up champions, but the Carina elements are stuck at a point in time and will pretty much never get easier. Other content like the Variants are pretty easy today so the outdated rewards don't really matter as most players can probably get through them fairly easily once their rosters are developed and will still be engaged with.
How this change will impact future content depends very much on how that content is designed. I agree to an extent with Kabam's mindset that you shouldn't just be able to throw 100 revives at a challenge and brute force it with Hercules because that does trivialise the content and must make it very difficult to plan content. The flip side, however, is that much of the end-game content has been designed to be impossible and by extension is only possible by throwing revives at the problem, unless you are someone like MSD, which even most of the T1 war players are not.
I realise that there is a balancing act that Kabam have got to walk with their content design; it needs to be hard but not impossible, and in my opinion, it should be completable without revives being the only answer - so no enrage timers/hit counters etc. if that is the design philosophy going forwards then this change, in combination with the 22 hour updates could make this change feel less punitive than it does at the moment.
If the potion revamp could be brought forward, which I think it an extremely important change then that will have a significant impact on revive use. Had it been implemented before Carina V3, then I think that this revive scare would have been a significantly smaller problem for Kabam as in its current iteration it's far more efficient to just 20% revive and do what damage you can rather than healing fully because access to potions above Lv3 come once per day through the 22hr events, 4hour or units.
Now, I won't even touch them because I'm not about to waste all my units, or real $$, on a bunch of revives.
Nothing to comment, just a daily read.