If this stands, Zemo unfortunately will go down as a falsely advertised mid tier champ, with very niche utility, where it was ok to let the player base be mislead because an obscure and poorly maintained tool had an entry. Hopefully this is revisited on Monday.
@Genghis_Slim I paid for a r5 crystal on July 4th, he was going to be my 1st r5 if ide spun a skill, luckily I got cosmic, mutant and tech, and I have an r5 hulkling.. so lucky I didn't get skill now
Completely understandable fix. Zemo's still great without the Zemo Lock, but Kraven definitely isn't worth those materials. Thanks, Miike.
I do think a lot more thought should go into the importance of clarifying abilities in game, even if they're AI specific. As well as updating players on the Forums. The Trello board isn't a reliable place to receive updates considering the amount of hoops players have to jump through to find it in the first place.
I hadn't heard of this trello board until today.
I think the people who carried Zemo to r4 and r5 will still be upset and I feel for them. RDTs should be for both Zemo and Kraven, as many ranked Zemo up not just based on what was seen in YT vids but also paralleling their experience of Kraven's 18-month-old mechanic (which is what is being used to justify giving Kraven RDTs).
I also don't think this issue ever comes up if relics weren't a thing, as they have become part of why infinite mechanisms like this have been possible lately. Have the devs been testing their champs with relics before they release them?
My policy is to not cary any champ who seems way OP past r3 in case they are bugged, which is why my zemo, cassie and kate bishop are still r3.
I definitely agree that response makes it sound like they put way too much stock in the trello board being a good way to communicate. I just became aware of it recently when someone mentioned it and I had to go looking in the wasteland that is the bugs forum to find it.
It was also a major oversight to not mention it in the Zemo rebalance update. And a huge oversight to not make a dedicated forum post announcing a very significant change to a debuff mechanic, let alone include it in the patch notes.
Hopefully they really do take this and the gambit relic situation as opportunists to remap their processes to avoid these situations in the future.
It would be insane for them not to reply to this issue, no matter the other things going on. Even something like "we’ll look into this" is enough for now, but when things have cooled down, a better reply is required.
I hope to God they don't just so we can all watch you whine like a baby more
Being someone to took Zemo to R5 and this being a large part of his play style seems like a total cop out of a response. Saying that the "vast majority of players do not use this feature" just cannot be true. That is the whole reason I ranked him up as that "feature" works perfectly for short to mid length fights (not long fights).
And to make a user base rely on a "Trello Board" that I did not even know existed until today (and I am an extremely active player) seems like such a bad answer. Especially AFTER he already went through his "rebalancing" and no one said a single thing about this during the release notes.
You took a champion that had a very specific use for high tier players and completely gutted him. I have no idea how any rational person thinks that is an ok answer.
For a top tier war/BG player, this has pretty much made him useless on attack. I still do not understand how not only did he go through his initial testing, but also his rebalancing and this was never brought up once as a bug. And then to "blame the user" for not knowing this was not working as attended is just so baffling (let's just blame the user for all of the different levels of mistakes we have made). If I ran my company this way, it would be out of business in a heart beat.
This is more of a vent than anything else, but come on. This really is the definition of bad customer service (bait and switch). For someone who spends quite a lot on this game, it seems like Kabam keeps going out of their way to make me not want to do that anymore. I just do not understand. This was such an easy opportunity for Kabam to do the right thing. I just do not get it.
Being someone to took Zemo to R5 and this being a large part of his play style seems like a total cop out of a response. Saying that the "vast majority of players do not use this feature" just cannot be true. That is the whole reason I ranked him up as that "feature" works perfectly for short to mid length fights (not long fights).
And to make a user base rely on a "Trello Board" that I did not even know existed until today (and I am an extremely active player) seems like such a bad answer. Especially AFTER he already went through his "rebalancing" and no one said a single thing about this during the release notes.
You took a champion that had a very specific use for high tier players and completely gutted him. I have no idea how any rational person thinks that is an ok answer.
For a top tier war/BG player, this has pretty much made him useless on attack. I still do not understand how not only did he go through his initial testing, but also his rebalancing and this was never brought up once as a bug. And then to "blame the user" for not knowing this was not working as attended is just so baffling (let's just blame the user for all of the different levels of mistakes we have made). If I ran my company this way, it would be out of business in a heart beat.
This is more of a vent than anything else, but come on. This really is the definition of bad customer service (bait and switch). For someone who spends quite a lot on this game, it seems like Kabam keeps going out of their way to make me not want to do that anymore. I just do not understand. This was such an easy opportunity for Kabam to do the right thing. I just do not get it.
You hit the nail on the head, especially with "blame the user" very very narcissistic response from kabam all round
Being someone to took Zemo to R5 and this being a large part of his play style seems like a total cop out of a response. Saying that the "vast majority of players do not use this feature" just cannot be true. That is the whole reason I ranked him up as that "feature" works perfectly for short to mid length fights (not long fights).
And to make a user base rely on a "Trello Board" that I did not even know existed until today (and I am an extremely active player) seems like such a bad answer. Especially AFTER he already went through his "rebalancing" and no one said a single thing about this during the release notes.
You took a champion that had a very specific use for high tier players and completely gutted him. I have no idea how any rational person thinks that is an ok answer.
For a top tier war/BG player, this has pretty much made him useless on attack. I still do not understand how not only did he go through his initial testing, but also his rebalancing and this was never brought up once as a bug. And then to "blame the user" for not knowing this was not working as attended is just so baffling (let's just blame the user for all of the different levels of mistakes we have made). If I ran my company this way, it would be out of business in a heart beat.
This is more of a vent than anything else, but come on. This really is the definition of bad customer service (bait and switch). For someone who spends quite a lot on this game, it seems like Kabam keeps going out of their way to make me not want to do that anymore. I just do not understand. This was such an easy opportunity for Kabam to do the right thing. I just do not get it.
I did post a reply to this, but it got deleted... So I'll say it in a different way.. you hit the nail on the head, especially when you said "blame the user" if I make numerous mistakes that affects people, then gaslight them, im a specific type of person...
I ranked up Zemo to r5 because of the "Zemo lock". There was no other reason-obviously the skill class has a large roster of very strong champs. Without the Zemo lock this Champ is completely useless. It is simply a lie that they didn't think about the impact on the champ and that most players didnt use the zemo lock mechanic. EVERY PLAYER WHO RANKED ZEMO TO R5 USED THAT. It is just disrespectful to not give RDTs. I spent 100 bucks for this trash.
I mean they already wanted to nerf him with his armor passive so you cant use him on powersnack anymore. After that they wanted to limit his fury stacks. And now they destroyed his kit completely. There is nothing left haha @Kabam Miike@Kabam Zibiit@Kabam Porthos@Kabam Lyra@Kabam Vydious
I will end the game after this season. I have never experienced such BS from a game developer. Why should we spend money???? I have a R5 Zemo worth a 100 bucks. That dude is now a meme Tier like WTF???
I ranked up Zemo to r5 because of the "Zemo lock". There was no other reason-obviously the skill class has a large roster of very strong champs. Without the Zemo lock this Champ is completely useless. It is simply a lie that they didn't think about the impact on the champ and that most players didnt use the zemo lock mechanic. EVERY PLAYER WHO RANKED ZEMO TO R5 USED THAT. It is just disrespectful to not give RDTs. I spent 100 bucks for this trash.
I mean they already wanted to nerf him with his armor passive so you cant use him on powersnack anymore. After that they wanted to limit his fury stacks. And now they destroyed his kit completely. There is nothing left haha @Kabam Miike@Kabam Zibiit@Kabam Porthos@Kabam Lyra@Kabam Vydious
Being someone to took Zemo to R5 and this being a large part of his play style seems like a total cop out of a response. Saying that the "vast majority of players do not use this feature" just cannot be true. That is the whole reason I ranked him up as that "feature" works perfectly for short to mid length fights (not long fights).
And to make a user base rely on a "Trello Board" that I did not even know existed until today (and I am an extremely active player) seems like such a bad answer. Especially AFTER he already went through his "rebalancing" and no one said a single thing about this during the release notes.
You took a champion that had a very specific use for high tier players and completely gutted him. I have no idea how any rational person thinks that is an ok answer.
For a top tier war/BG player, this has pretty much made him useless on attack. I still do not understand how not only did he go through his initial testing, but also his rebalancing and this was never brought up once as a bug. And then to "blame the user" for not knowing this was not working as attended is just so baffling (let's just blame the user for all of the different levels of mistakes we have made). If I ran my company this way, it would be out of business in a heart beat.
This is more of a vent than anything else, but come on. This really is the definition of bad customer service (bait and switch). For someone who spends quite a lot on this game, it seems like Kabam keeps going out of their way to make me not want to do that anymore. I just do not understand. This was such an easy opportunity for Kabam to do the right thing. I just do not get it.
I did post a reply to this, but it got deleted... So I'll say it in a different way.. you hit the nail on the head, especially when you said "blame the user" if I make numerous mistakes that affects people, then gaslight them, im a specific type of person...
I see your first response two comments above this one, I don't think it was deleted
Being someone to took Zemo to R5 and this being a large part of his play style seems like a total cop out of a response. Saying that the "vast majority of players do not use this feature" just cannot be true. That is the whole reason I ranked him up as that "feature" works perfectly for short to mid length fights (not long fights).
And to make a user base rely on a "Trello Board" that I did not even know existed until today (and I am an extremely active player) seems like such a bad answer. Especially AFTER he already went through his "rebalancing" and no one said a single thing about this during the release notes.
You took a champion that had a very specific use for high tier players and completely gutted him. I have no idea how any rational person thinks that is an ok answer.
For a top tier war/BG player, this has pretty much made him useless on attack. I still do not understand how not only did he go through his initial testing, but also his rebalancing and this was never brought up once as a bug. And then to "blame the user" for not knowing this was not working as attended is just so baffling (let's just blame the user for all of the different levels of mistakes we have made). If I ran my company this way, it would be out of business in a heart beat.
This is more of a vent than anything else, but come on. This really is the definition of bad customer service (bait and switch). For someone who spends quite a lot on this game, it seems like Kabam keeps going out of their way to make me not want to do that anymore. I just do not understand. This was such an easy opportunity for Kabam to do the right thing. I just do not get it.
I did post a reply to this, but it got deleted... So I'll say it in a different way.. you hit the nail on the head, especially when you said "blame the user" if I make numerous mistakes that affects people, then gaslight them, im a specific type of person...
I see your first response two comments above this one, I don't think it was deleted
It's there again now, I must have missed it.. its late here lol and I've been quite invested in this
This is one of those times I hope Miike and Jax can advocate for the community a bit here. That response from the devs acknowledges a lot of failures that led to this situation. What’s the harm in letting some folks roll back their Zemo in favor of another skill champ? It really does seem like it could have been an easy win in a week full of Ls for Kabam across the rest of this update.
Completely understandable fix. Zemo's still great without the Zemo Lock, but Kraven definitely isn't worth those materials. Thanks, Miike.
I do think a lot more thought should go into the importance of clarifying abilities in game, even if they're AI specific. As well as updating players on the Forums. The Trello board isn't a reliable place to receive updates considering the amount of hoops players have to jump through to find it in the first place.
I hadn't heard of this trello board until today.
I think the people who carried Zemo to r4 and r5 will still be upset and I feel for them. RDTs should be for both Zemo and Kraven, as many ranked Zemo up not just based on what was seen in YT vids but also paralleling their experience of Kraven's 18-month-old mechanic (which is what is being used to justify giving Kraven RDTs).
I also don't think this issue ever comes up if relics weren't a thing, as they have become part of why infinite mechanisms like this have been possible lately. Have the devs been testing their champs with relics before they release them?
My policy is to not cary any champ who seems way OP past r3 in case they are bugged, which is why my zemo, cassie and kate bishop are still r3.
Yeah, I've definitely changed my mind about them not giving RDT's for Zemo. I knew the amount of people unaware of the Trello board was high, but I had no idea it was this high. They did announce the fix within the time frame of Zemo's rebalancing, so if this had been a dedicated Forum thread in April this wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal as it is.
Without the in game Root description defining what it was meant to do from the beginning *and* without informing players through the usual means, this is a massive mistake.
The Trello board is the place we can go to find out the current status of known bugs. It is not, and should never be, the place to announce bug fixes for the first time. Save that for the Forums.
@Dukenpuke The Zemo Lock is the main reason to bring this champion to r5 lol. They destroyed his whole kit. Now you can just build up your bleed stacks or play a little bit with Zemo vs attuma. He dropped from top 5 to a meme tier i mean how can that be fair.
@Dukenpuke The Zemo Lock is the main reason to bring this champion to r5 lol. They destroyed his whole kit. Now you can just build up your bleed stacks or play a little bit with Zemo vs attuma. He dropped from top 5 to a meme tier i mean how can that be fair.
It would be easy to give RDTs
There are plenty of reasons to R5 Zemo outside of root locking.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing that you shouldn't get RDTs, just with your assertion that the only reason people R5ed Zemo is to use this strategy.
I unterstand your point. But there are some crazy Skill Champions out there. Zemo cant stand his ground against them without his mechanics. His damage is just not high enough @Dukenpuke
Here's a link to the fabled trello board for those who still don't know where it is. It isn't your fault if you didnt know about it tbh it's not very well advertised and is hidden in one of kabams many pinned threads
Comments
I think the people who carried Zemo to r4 and r5 will still be upset and I feel for them. RDTs should be for both Zemo and Kraven, as many ranked Zemo up not just based on what was seen in YT vids but also paralleling their experience of Kraven's 18-month-old mechanic (which is what is being used to justify giving Kraven RDTs).
I also don't think this issue ever comes up if relics weren't a thing, as they have become part of why infinite mechanisms like this have been possible lately. Have the devs been testing their champs with relics before they release them?
My policy is to not cary any champ who seems way OP past r3 in case they are bugged, which is why my zemo, cassie and kate bishop are still r3.
It was also a major oversight to not mention it in the Zemo rebalance update. And a huge oversight to not make a dedicated forum post announcing a very significant change to a debuff mechanic, let alone include it in the patch notes.
Hopefully they really do take this and the gambit relic situation as opportunists to remap their processes to avoid these situations in the future.
And to make a user base rely on a "Trello Board" that I did not even know existed until today (and I am an extremely active player) seems like such a bad answer. Especially AFTER he already went through his "rebalancing" and no one said a single thing about this during the release notes.
You took a champion that had a very specific use for high tier players and completely gutted him. I have no idea how any rational person thinks that is an ok answer.
For a top tier war/BG player, this has pretty much made him useless on attack. I still do not understand how not only did he go through his initial testing, but also his rebalancing and this was never brought up once as a bug. And then to "blame the user" for not knowing this was not working as attended is just so baffling (let's just blame the user for all of the different levels of mistakes we have made). If I ran my company this way, it would be out of business in a heart beat.
This is more of a vent than anything else, but come on. This really is the definition of bad customer service (bait and switch). For someone who spends quite a lot on this game, it seems like Kabam keeps going out of their way to make me not want to do that anymore. I just do not understand. This was such an easy opportunity for Kabam to do the right thing. I just do not get it.
So I'll say it in a different way.. you hit the nail on the head, especially when you said "blame the user" if I make numerous mistakes that affects people, then gaslight them, im a specific type of person...
I mean they already wanted to nerf him with his armor passive so you cant use him on powersnack anymore. After that they wanted to limit his fury stacks. And now they destroyed his kit completely. There is nothing left haha @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Porthos @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Vydious
Without the in game Root description defining what it was meant to do from the beginning *and* without informing players through the usual means, this is a massive mistake.
The Trello board is the place we can go to find out the current status of known bugs. It is not, and should never be, the place to announce bug fixes for the first time. Save that for the Forums.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/334825/balancing-update-baron-zemo-and-absorbing-man
It would be easy to give RDTs
Ehmm that root is far from terrifying now...🤷
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing that you shouldn't get RDTs, just with your assertion that the only reason people R5ed Zemo is to use this strategy.
Here's a link to the fabled trello board for those who still don't know where it is. It isn't your fault if you didnt know about it tbh it's not very well advertised and is hidden in one of kabams many pinned threads