How are Alliance BG Rewards Fair in Any Capacity?

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Comments

  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
  • PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
  • PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
    For me 4/5 players I fight in bgs has at least 6 r5s and some have multiple r2s that are duped and it is extremely annoying especially in this meta where it regenerates a % rather than a set number which directly benefits larger defenders. Now they don't really affect me outside of bgs but to me the reason I play the game is mostly bgs and all other content is so I can upgrade my bg roster.

    The thing is I am enjoying the game and upgrading my roster. The problem is I cant have a lot of fun in the one gamemode that actually matters in the game (for me) which has caused a lot of frustration. I understand spenders should get an advantage but it is extremely frustrating when your gameplay comes at the expense of it.

    However I do think that reducing the rewards given in deals and making them more suitable for the economy rather than one that would be in a couple months would be better. Spenders are going to buy no matter what anf Kabam should really just do what they have been doing, adding events that actually give good rewards for FTP and p2w. The gifting event, the gwenpool spring event, the 7 star celebration event - all of these have allowed large FTP accounts to get the rewards while also incentivised spenders to buy so they could get more and place higher up on a leaderboard or get a specific champ. I got so much out of those events being relatively FTP and whales got much out of them too. July 4th switched this to have FTP get nothing while P2W gets all of it
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★
    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
    July 4th switched this to have FTP get nothing while P2W gets all of it
    You realise there were 36k units worth of FTP purchasable offers. They could go through the track twice?

    This is why your position is hard to take at face value, there’s a lot of exaggeration, and emotional arguments of “FTP get NOTHING” and “this is worse than a minimum wage job”
  • PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
    However I do think that reducing the rewards given in deals and making them more suitable for the economy rather than one that would be in a couple months would be better. Spenders are going to buy no matter what anf Kabam should really just do what they have been doing, adding events that actually give good rewards for FTP and p2w.
    But see, that's where you kinda contradict yourself. As you said, Kabam has been making events where ftp and ptw both benefit. In this case, Kabam gave an event where ptw players were given an outrageous benefit, and are now going to face the task of allowing ftp players to catch up. Lowering the impact of deals would not help, because ftp players are then given the potential of obtaining those same rewards in the near future. This is just the way Kabam's system works.

    I get that facing these massive accounts can be frustrating and BGs has also been my main motivation for a while, but I have to wonder what your method of account growth is. If your argument is going to be that you cannot physically compete due to the amount of possible rewards for ftp being that much lower than ptw, showing the amount of rewards you can achieve is going to be the best way to do that. I think you'll likely see that there are a few forms of progress that you're missing.
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
    July 4th switched this to have FTP get nothing while P2W gets all of it
    You realise there were 36k units worth of FTP purchasable offers. They could go through the track twice?

    This is why your position is hard to take at face value, there’s a lot of exaggeration, and emotional arguments of “FTP get NOTHING” and “this is worse than a minimum wage job”
    36k units - 1200$ worth of units. Yeah FTP and yeah I did purchase some of these bundles but they were severely outclassed by the money offers. Also ofc my arguments are going to be emotional its my frustrations and opinions being put on the forums with a want for change. Ive said this.

    What I didn't say is "this is worse than a minimum wage job" I did say that if you want to progress doing a minimum wage job would progress you further faster than grinding. That is an objective statement
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
    However I do think that reducing the rewards given in deals and making them more suitable for the economy rather than one that would be in a couple months would be better. Spenders are going to buy no matter what anf Kabam should really just do what they have been doing, adding events that actually give good rewards for FTP and p2w.
    But see, that's where you kinda contradict yourself. As you said, Kabam has been making events where ftp and ptw both benefit. In this case, Kabam gave an event where ptw players were given an outrageous benefit, and are now going to face the task of allowing ftp players to catch up. Lowering the impact of deals would not help, because ftp players are then given the potential of obtaining those same rewards in the near future. This is just the way Kabam's system works.

    I get that facing these massive accounts can be frustrating and BGs has also been my main motivation for a while, but I have to wonder what your method of account growth is. If your argument is going to be that you cannot physically compete due to the amount of possible rewards for ftp being that much lower than ptw, showing the amount of rewards you can achieve is going to be the best way to do that. I think you'll likely see that there are a few forms of progress that you're missing.
    Not sure what Im missing? I do as much arena as I can if I have time, I do all aq, eq, and when it was on aw. Im almost done progressing through 8.2 and am going to do incursion later tomorrow when I have time. The only thing I haven't done so far is variants because its variants.Very long boring and monotonous with the only worthwhile rewards being gold.

    Yeah you're right it isn't how kabam's system works but that is why I made this post, so I could try to get a message out saying that this isn't good. And yeah kabam has to face the task of giving FTP rewards to catch them up. But with how they've been doing the last month or so I doubt that is what is on their mind right now. Lack of communication doesn't give me hope that they are going to give us those resources to FTP.

    I don't know why giving FTP players rewards sooner to help is a bad thing. Kabam would make much more money if they made multiple more offers a year with lesser values that allows p2w have an advantage for a short while and then allow FTP to catch up still gives ptw the advantage and Kabam more money
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★
    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
    July 4th switched this to have FTP get nothing while P2W gets all of it
    You realise there were 36k units worth of FTP purchasable offers. They could go through the track twice?

    This is why your position is hard to take at face value, there’s a lot of exaggeration, and emotional arguments of “FTP get NOTHING” and “this is worse than a minimum wage job”
    36k units - 1200$ worth of units. Yeah FTP and yeah I did purchase some of these bundles but they were severely outclassed by the money offers. Also ofc my arguments are going to be emotional its my frustrations and opinions being put on the forums with a want for change. Ive said this.
    Just because something can be bought with units doesn’t make it P2W, and that really hurts your argument. By definition, unit offers are FTP, with an option of paying for them. Because you can grind out 1-2k units a week.

    Additionally, I can appreciate feeling strongly about something, but using emotional persuasion with “FTP get nothing” hurts your argument especially when claiming it’s based on facts - FTP getting nothing is demonstrably wrong and calls into question the rest of your argument. FTP players can, and did, buy the full track with saved units. And of course, spending get more as they can get the track and offers.

    But that’s how the game works, you can disagree, you can not like it. But I’m afraid it’s not going to change, what you’re asking for is something where spenders will not feel the need to spend anymore, because they don’t get enough value from it. And that *would* cause the game to die.

    I’ve said my piece, and I don’t think you’re going to be persuaded. So to save being dragged down in counter points and counter points, I’ll leave it there.
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
    July 4th switched this to have FTP get nothing while P2W gets all of it
    You realise there were 36k units worth of FTP purchasable offers. They could go through the track twice?

    This is why your position is hard to take at face value, there’s a lot of exaggeration, and emotional arguments of “FTP get NOTHING” and “this is worse than a minimum wage job”
    36k units - 1200$ worth of units. Yeah FTP and yeah I did purchase some of these bundles but they were severely outclassed by the money offers. Also ofc my arguments are going to be emotional its my frustrations and opinions being put on the forums with a want for change. Ive said this.
    Just because something can be bought with units doesn’t make it P2W, and that really hurts your argument. By definition, unit offers are FTP, with an option of paying for them. Because you can grind out 1-2k units a week.

    Additionally, I can appreciate feeling strongly about something, but using emotional persuasion with “FTP get nothing” hurts your argument especially when claiming it’s based on facts - FTP getting nothing is demonstrably wrong and calls into question the rest of your argument. FTP players can, and did, buy the full track with saved units. And of course, spending get more as they can get the track and offers.

    But that’s how the game works, you can disagree, you can not like it. But I’m afraid it’s not going to change, what you’re asking for is something where spenders will not feel the need to spend anymore, because they don’t get enough value from it. And that *would* cause the game to die.

    I’ve said my piece, and I don’t think you’re going to be persuaded. So to save being dragged down in counter points and counter points, I’ll leave it there.
    Where tf are you getting 1-2k units a week? Also I have said that these points are emotionally driven with facts as a basis saying FTP gets nothing isn't contradictory when the offers were not designed with FTP in mind and not all ftp can get these offers. They didn't really want FTP to get anything so yes Ftp gets nothing is an exaggeration but its not too far off.

    Idk why you've kept arguing after I've said I'm not changing my opinion if you were going to leave when I backed my position lmao.
  • ShibbyMcDudeShibbyMcDude Member Posts: 35
    edited July 2023
    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
    July 4th switched this to have FTP get nothing while P2W gets all of it
    You realise there were 36k units worth of FTP purchasable offers. They could go through the track twice?

    This is why your position is hard to take at face value, there’s a lot of exaggeration, and emotional arguments of “FTP get NOTHING” and “this is worse than a minimum wage job”
    36k units - 1200$ worth of units. Yeah FTP and yeah I did purchase some of these bundles but they were severely outclassed by the money offers. Also ofc my arguments are going to be emotional its my frustrations and opinions being put on the forums with a want for change. Ive said this.
    Just because something can be bought with units doesn’t make it P2W, and that really hurts your argument. By definition, unit offers are FTP, with an option of paying for them. Because you can grind out 1-2k units a week.

    Additionally, I can appreciate feeling strongly about something, but using emotional persuasion with “FTP get nothing” hurts your argument especially when claiming it’s based on facts - FTP getting nothing is demonstrably wrong and calls into question the rest of your argument. FTP players can, and did, buy the full track with saved units. And of course, spending get more as they can get the track and offers.

    But that’s how the game works, you can disagree, you can not like it. But I’m afraid it’s not going to change, what you’re asking for is something where spenders will not feel the need to spend anymore, because they don’t get enough value from it. And that *would* cause the game to die.

    I’ve said my piece, and I don’t think you’re going to be persuaded. So to save being dragged down in counter points and counter points, I’ll leave it there.
    Where tf are you getting 1-2k units a week? Also I have said that these points are emotionally driven with facts as a basis saying FTP gets nothing isn't contradictory when the offers were not designed with FTP in mind and not all ftp can get these offers. They didn't really want FTP to get anything so yes Ftp gets nothing is an exaggeration but its not too far off.

    Idk why you've kept arguing after I've said I'm not changing my opinion if you were going to leave when I backed my position lmao.
    1-2k units per week is easily farmable in arenas (milestones and battlechips) But it’s all about: where do you want to spend your time. If you don’t want to do arena, you accept having less units, so then a unit offer feels pay2win. It isn’t though. In our t1 alliance there are multiple people with 10-20k units, all farmed in arena just for the July and cyber weekend deals.

    Just to make it clear. The time u spend in this forum thread now, you could have finished all arena milestones from 1 arena and some from a second arena. Which would almost mean 300-500 units 😉 (yes it’s a joke, but the numbers are true)
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
    Actually we have to worry when spenders stop spending... The lights won't stay on for free..
  • pseudosanepseudosane Member, Guardian Posts: 3,992 Guardian
    edited July 2023
    If you have to work at minimum wage, i'm sure your worries will not include "how many r5s can i get".
    Source, used to work minimum wage as a student.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
    However I do think that reducing the rewards given in deals and making them more suitable for the economy rather than one that would be in a couple months would be better. Spenders are going to buy no matter what anf Kabam should really just do what they have been doing, adding events that actually give good rewards for FTP and p2w.
    But see, that's where you kinda contradict yourself. As you said, Kabam has been making events where ftp and ptw both benefit. In this case, Kabam gave an event where ptw players were given an outrageous benefit, and are now going to face the task of allowing ftp players to catch up. Lowering the impact of deals would not help, because ftp players are then given the potential of obtaining those same rewards in the near future. This is just the way Kabam's system works.

    I get that facing these massive accounts can be frustrating and BGs has also been my main motivation for a while, but I have to wonder what your method of account growth is. If your argument is going to be that you cannot physically compete due to the amount of possible rewards for ftp being that much lower than ptw, showing the amount of rewards you can achieve is going to be the best way to do that. I think you'll likely see that there are a few forms of progress that you're missing.
    Not sure what Im missing? I do as much arena as I can if I have time, I do all aq, eq, and when it was on aw. Im almost done progressing through 8.2 and am going to do incursion later tomorrow when I have time. The only thing I haven't done so far is variants because its variants.Very long boring and monotonous with the only worthwhile rewards being gold.

    Yeah you're right it isn't how kabam's system works but that is why I made this post, so I could try to get a message out saying that this isn't good. And yeah kabam has to face the task of giving FTP rewards to catch them up. But with how they've been doing the last month or so I doubt that is what is on their mind right now. Lack of communication doesn't give me hope that they are going to give us those resources to FTP.

    I don't know why giving FTP players rewards sooner to help is a bad thing. Kabam would make much more money if they made multiple more offers a year with lesser values that allows p2w have an advantage for a short while and then allow FTP to catch up still gives ptw the advantage and Kabam more money
    This is such a disconnection from reality....
    Basically you want Kabam to give F2P players more stuff so people who spend have to keep pn spending to stay ahead...You wanna be the means to milk spending players...
    Stop calling them P2W... Its not their fault you have this idea that you will be able to compete against spenders and a lot of F2P dedicated accounts, IF you had 1 or 2 r5s when you still have r2s in your deck...
  • DanielRandDanielRand Member Posts: 473 ★★★★
    How many rewards could you have grinded for instead of replying to 4 pages of comments? Asking for a friend.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,573 ★★★★★
    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    No, I understood the points. I just don't understand the comparison. Playing the game is not a transferable source of income. It's a service. It offers premiums at various times and in various amounts. Which is why it makes me somewhat cringe when people compare the in-game economy to the J4th sales, because that's not the norm.
    In any event, the game is playable at whatever level of investment we choose to have, be it time or money. It's like a job in a sense that you get what you put into it, but the payoff is apples and kumquats.
  • KnightOfTheRealmKnightOfTheRealm Member Posts: 950 ★★★
    PotatoGod said:

    Coppin said:

    PotatoGod said:

    Coppin said:

    PotatoGod said:

    Coppin said:

    PotatoGod said:

    Coppin said:

    PotatoGod said:

    Coppin said:

    PotatoGod said:

    Coppin said:

    Its for 1 season only....

    Which makes it even worse. If the boosted rewards can't get players caught up to the meta then kabam has really messed up. The funny thing is 3 weeks ago these rewards would've been totally fine lmao.
    What are you talking about? The rewards were bumped due to the lack of war, the rewards are similar to P3, P2 or somewhere in between those 2..
    Trying to tell me Conq/UC/Cav MUST get them? Good enough they have a shot at getting them; but entitled to them?
    I never said that? These rewards aren't meta after the July 4th deals and simply aren't worth your time grinding for if you aren't enjoying that grind. Kabam very clearly didn't think about how bad the rewards were going to be after the sales and are simply **** now. They are only worth it if you aren't paragon and are still progressing
    Who said anything about meta or not?
    They are similar to war rewards if there was a season...
    But that's not the point
    Your point is stupid cause you are talking about 4th of July deals..
    The BG event started almost 2 weeks before the sale...if they matched the 4th of July meta.. the 4th of July sale wouldn't have been GREAT deals...
    They didn't come up with the deals a day before they released. Also the bg rewards don't even give a r4 while the July 4th deals gave out 6 r5 for paragon deals only. They could've amped the bg rewards to anything lower than 2r5 and the July deals would still be insane
    What part of "they made them to replace war rewards" don't you understand?... They are tailored FOR ALL PROGRESSION LVLS, You think they are gonna let CONQ/UC/Cav grind for r5s? 🤣
    1- The sale is supposed to be monstrous, not even a meta, they were always there and they were always economy breaking..
    2- This are not game engaging rewards, or improvements.. its a 1 time only cause War game mode is shut down and they are similar to the current war rewards... Has nothing to do with the current or past meta or 4th of july deals...Its basically moving war rewards into BGs for 1 season
    3- If you don't like them you don''t have to grind them really..
    4-


    Its not about what I should be expecting its about what Kabam should do. I couldnt care less that its supposed to be for everybody. I couldnt care less that sales are always overhauled. They need to allow the playerbase to catch up to the meta. These rewards have been the most we've gotten from kabam outside of sales and eop in a while which is frustrating. Also stop repeating the same talking points about how "Its for everyone" "They're a replacement for war" Ik what they are. I wasn't asking you to update me on whats happening in the game. It isn't the point of the post
    Your point is that this BG should have given you at least 2 R5s for grinding 400k points solo (only 100k more than other seasons) and 12 mill as an alliance.. get real dude...
    Carina's Challenge has 1 r5; but you want 2 for BG milestones.. 🤣🤣
    God can you read? I never said I wanted 2r5s. Also you're acting like 400k is an easy thing to do and for every alliance member to get. "Get Real" Like sure but being realistic here doesn't mean I shouldn't want it to change
    It isn’t hard to get. My entire alliance except for 3 are past 400k
  • Ayden_noah1Ayden_noah1 Member Posts: 1,860 ★★★★
    edited July 2023
    I'm surprise that not more FTP players are backing up @PotatoGod. He seems to be in the middle of the ocean in a canoe with no paddles. Watching all those paying customer's in the airplanes flying overhead. Wondering why he can't get to land as fast as those in the airplane. Guess once he reaches the shore he can ask them to join him in his canoe the next time they want to cross the ocean so he won't be so lonely.
  • I'm surprise that not more FTP players are backing up PotatoGod. He seems to be in the middle of the ocean in a peson made canoe with no paddles. Watching all those paying customer's in the airplanes fying overhead. Wondering why he can't get to land as fast as those in the airplane. Guess once he reaches shore he can ask them to join him next time so he won't be so lonely.

    Bro what 💀
  • Ayden_noah1Ayden_noah1 Member Posts: 1,860 ★★★★

    I'm surprise that not more FTP players are backing up PotatoGod. He seems to be in the middle of the ocean in a peson made canoe with no paddles. Watching all those paying customer's in the airplanes fying overhead. Wondering why he can't get to land as fast as those in the airplane. Guess once he reaches shore he can ask them to join him next time so he won't be so lonely.

    Bro what 💀
    I'm just saying it seems that @PotatoGod is on his own without any backers with his post. Seems like the whole MCOC community is against his stance. I feel sorry for him, but he's so stubbord he will argue till the end and not care about other people's logic or counter arguements since it's not on the same as his.
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    If you have to work at minimum wage, i'm sure your worries will not include "how many r5s can i get".
    Source, used to work minimum wage as a student.

    4 Other people have commented this and all 5 of you have completely missed the point
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    I'm surprise that not more FTP players are backing up PotatoGod. He seems to be in the middle of the ocean in a peson made canoe with no paddles. Watching all those paying customer's in the airplanes fying overhead. Wondering why he can't get to land as fast as those in the airplane. Guess once he reaches shore he can ask them to join him next time so he won't be so lonely.

    Bro what 💀
    I'm just saying it seems that @PotatoGod is on his own without any backers with his post. Seems like the whole MCOC community is against his stance. I feel sorry for him, but he's so stubbord he will argue till the end and not care about other people's logic or counter arguements since it's not on the same as his.
    Im stubborn because I'm backing my opinion? Just because people disagree with doesn't mean Im wrong and stuff like this is more subjective and based on personal experience. I have different opinions because my experience is different. Im not forcing anyone to agree with me I'm just stating my thoughts.
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93
    edited July 2023

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    No, I understood the points. I just don't understand the comparison. Playing the game is not a transferable source of income. It's a service. It offers premiums at various times and in various amounts. Which is why it makes me somewhat cringe when people compare the in-game economy to the J4th sales, because that's not the norm.
    In any event, the game is playable at whatever level of investment we choose to have, be it time or money. It's like a job in a sense that you get what you put into it, but the payoff is apples and kumquats.
    These deals are going to propel you forward massively and will keep the players who spent further ahead even with rewards kabam will be giving out within the next couple months. I never said it was a transferable source of income. It is a fact that working a job to get rewards will benefit you more than actually playing the game in terms of account progression.
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    How many rewards could you have grinded for instead of replying to 4 pages of comments? Asking for a friend.

    Ive gotten 500k points so idk where you're going with this
  • FigueFigue Member Posts: 83
    they are fair, its just that you dont like it
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93
    Coppin said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
    However I do think that reducing the rewards given in deals and making them more suitable for the economy rather than one that would be in a couple months would be better. Spenders are going to buy no matter what anf Kabam should really just do what they have been doing, adding events that actually give good rewards for FTP and p2w.
    But see, that's where you kinda contradict yourself. As you said, Kabam has been making events where ftp and ptw both benefit. In this case, Kabam gave an event where ptw players were given an outrageous benefit, and are now going to face the task of allowing ftp players to catch up. Lowering the impact of deals would not help, because ftp players are then given the potential of obtaining those same rewards in the near future. This is just the way Kabam's system works.

    I get that facing these massive accounts can be frustrating and BGs has also been my main motivation for a while, but I have to wonder what your method of account growth is. If your argument is going to be that you cannot physically compete due to the amount of possible rewards for ftp being that much lower than ptw, showing the amount of rewards you can achieve is going to be the best way to do that. I think you'll likely see that there are a few forms of progress that you're missing.
    Not sure what Im missing? I do as much arena as I can if I have time, I do all aq, eq, and when it was on aw. Im almost done progressing through 8.2 and am going to do incursion later tomorrow when I have time. The only thing I haven't done so far is variants because its variants.Very long boring and monotonous with the only worthwhile rewards being gold.

    Yeah you're right it isn't how kabam's system works but that is why I made this post, so I could try to get a message out saying that this isn't good. And yeah kabam has to face the task of giving FTP rewards to catch them up. But with how they've been doing the last month or so I doubt that is what is on their mind right now. Lack of communication doesn't give me hope that they are going to give us those resources to FTP.

    I don't know why giving FTP players rewards sooner to help is a bad thing. Kabam would make much more money if they made multiple more offers a year with lesser values that allows p2w have an advantage for a short while and then allow FTP to catch up still gives ptw the advantage and Kabam more money
    This is such a disconnection from reality....
    Basically you want Kabam to give F2P players more stuff so people who spend have to keep pn spending to stay ahead...You wanna be the means to milk spending players...
    Stop calling them P2W... Its not their fault you have this idea that you will be able to compete against spenders and a lot of F2P dedicated accounts, IF you had 1 or 2 r5s when you still have r2s in your deck...
    They're already milking spenders so it wouldn't be anything new.

    They are literally Pay to Win players. Why would I stop calling them that? They pay so they can 'win'. Not hard

    Again if English isn't your first language sorry but I don't think I've ever seen someone be as terrible at reading as you. I have told you multiple times that I never said that having just 1 r5 or just 2r5 would win me everything, I said it would help because you can't get your mind off of it. I would certainly love more r4s but even then the milestones only give you 2/3 of one.
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    I've typed a response several times, and I keep deleting. The only thing coming up is "Huh?".

    TLDR: Spending your time at a minimum wage job (In the Us) will get you better rewards for time spent than battlegrounds
    I for one am not shocked that working is more financially rewarding than playing a game.

    I measure the output of my games in how much I enjoy them, how much fun I get out of them. Rather than working out a cost/hour

    If you want to do that, be my guest, but it’s not a good indicator of value in games. Games are not meant to be equivalent to minimum wage in any way. You don’t have a contract with kabam, you aren’t owed anything by kabam. You spend your time because you enjoy it
    The problem is is that it get increasingly harder to enjoy the game when someone who doesn't play it get better rewards than you. I want it to be less of a split and have it be more fair so that f2p can at least try to compete. It also becomes less fun due to the amount of losses you have to endure because of that gap.
    That’s ultimately your decision, but it still remains true that you can’t compare it to a minimum wage job and expect to have a wildly relevant point I’m afraid.
    Its not about playing the game vs working a minimum wage job its about grinding the game for rewards vs not playing for rewards. The minimum wage job was just an example of why its bad
    I’m saying it’s a bad example. And there will always be ways to grind the game and ways to spend. It’s why we still have a game.
    Yes but the grinding should be equal if not greater than spending. Thats what brings the game to life in the first place- playing it
    The game would not exist if grinding was equal or greater than spending. You're right that playing the game is what brings it to life, but spenders play it too.
    Yes but the pace the game is headed the spenders wont need to grind to stay ahead of everyone else
    Maybe, but we only have to worry when the spenders stop wanting to grind. As long as people keep playing the game, the game is going to be fine.

    I do have to wonder how much spenders really affect your experience. For me personally, I face some annoying accounts in BGs, but that's the extent of it. I would be more worried about what the economy looks like for ftp players than what it looks like for the whales. As long as you enjoy developing your roster and managing your resources, the economy is doing well. If you don't, that's a seperate issue that will not be solved by nerfing deals.
    July 4th switched this to have FTP get nothing while P2W gets all of it
    You realise there were 36k units worth of FTP purchasable offers. They could go through the track twice?

    This is why your position is hard to take at face value, there’s a lot of exaggeration, and emotional arguments of “FTP get NOTHING” and “this is worse than a minimum wage job”
    36k units - 1200$ worth of units. Yeah FTP and yeah I did purchase some of these bundles but they were severely outclassed by the money offers. Also ofc my arguments are going to be emotional its my frustrations and opinions being put on the forums with a want for change. Ive said this.
    Just because something can be bought with units doesn’t make it P2W, and that really hurts your argument. By definition, unit offers are FTP, with an option of paying for them. Because you can grind out 1-2k units a week.

    Additionally, I can appreciate feeling strongly about something, but using emotional persuasion with “FTP get nothing” hurts your argument especially when claiming it’s based on facts - FTP getting nothing is demonstrably wrong and calls into question the rest of your argument. FTP players can, and did, buy the full track with saved units. And of course, spending get more as they can get the track and offers.

    But that’s how the game works, you can disagree, you can not like it. But I’m afraid it’s not going to change, what you’re asking for is something where spenders will not feel the need to spend anymore, because they don’t get enough value from it. And that *would* cause the game to die.

    I’ve said my piece, and I don’t think you’re going to be persuaded. So to save being dragged down in counter points and counter points, I’ll leave it there.
    Where tf are you getting 1-2k units a week? Also I have said that these points are emotionally driven with facts as a basis saying FTP gets nothing isn't contradictory when the offers were not designed with FTP in mind and not all ftp can get these offers. They didn't really want FTP to get anything so yes Ftp gets nothing is an exaggeration but its not too far off.

    Idk why you've kept arguing after I've said I'm not changing my opinion if you were going to leave when I backed my position lmao.
    1-2k units per week is easily farmable in arenas (milestones and battlechips) But it’s all about: where do you want to spend your time. If you don’t want to do arena, you accept having less units, so then a unit offer feels pay2win. It isn’t though. In our t1 alliance there are multiple people with 10-20k units, all farmed in arena just for the July and cyber weekend deals.

    Just to make it clear. The time u spend in this forum thread now, you could have finished all arena milestones from 1 arena and some from a second arena. Which would almost mean 300-500 units 😉 (yes it’s a joke, but the numbers are true)
    My roster isn't like that. I did grind out the arenas for your info and made it as far as I could and it only got me 120 units. All the arena crystals give me is gold. I have gotten a total of maybe 7-800 units out of them as a total of my 2 years playing the game
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93
    Figue said:

    they are fair, its just that you dont like it

    Fair can be a subjective term. So yeah ofc I'm not gonna think its fair if I don't like them lmao
  • FigueFigue Member Posts: 83
    PotatoGod said:

    Figue said:

    they are fair, its just that you dont like it

    Fair can be a subjective term. So yeah ofc I'm not gonna think its fair if I don't like them lmao
    fair for the designers and the company who owns the game :smiley: you just have to play, or not if u dont like them
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