Winter of Woe Community Chat [MERGED THREADS]

Figured it'd be a good idea to get this started so people can discuss what works and what doesn't. Please feel free to post feedback below!

Comments

xLunatiXx

And remove Brute force or make AI aggressive...

Hahaha bold of you to assume anyone has control of the AI. Ultron has taken over

Venoween

This one fight isn't that huge of a deal if it was a one-off. Having to burn resources like this every 2 weeks then the final round with all the fights is going to be a nightmare. Be better Kabam.

This is a very important point to consider. Guarantee misery every two weeks.

Wardruna

Why doesn’t power drain work? Tried OG Vision and warlock and no power drain

Axew

Rarely do I say this on here, but it needs to be toned down. Not looking for a cake walk, but this is not challenging. It's constricting.

In combination with the challenge restrictions it feels impossible. The fight is already difficult with a good counter like quicksilver, but limiting our options to 1 or 2 suboptimal champions within a tag like robot is absurd.

ahmynuts

For real though. Kevin we love you, we loved necro, sop, eop. But this one isn't it cheif. We believe in you.

Nemesis_17

It feels like there’s one node too many on this fight going on which significantly shrinks the number of options you can use. Either remove the unstoppable, or the no DOT, or the crit through block, there’s one too many things happening to worry about.
I think they should remove the dot node tbh. Thinking about the fight as a whole, we have an abs man who’s regen can’t be reversed, with crits through block, brute force, unstoppable, immune to dot, and all of abs man’s regular annoying abilities.

If they took DOT immunity away, it opens up so many more options that you could skillfully use to solo. Someone like Viv or Overseer would be tougher to use here, but now they should have access to their main sources of damage. It still keeps the annoyance of the fight intact cause one hit can still kill you, but now you don’t have to keep throwing 1/2 champs at him

Yeah that would be perfectly fine imo. Every extra node they add narrows the pool of usable champs and it’s honestly overturned rn.

Bendy

It feels like there’s one node too many on this fight going on which significantly shrinks the number of options you can use. Either remove the unstoppable, or the no DOT, or the crit through block, there’s one too many things happening to worry about.
I think they should remove the dot node tbh. Thinking about the fight as a whole, we have an abs man who’s regen can’t be reversed, with crits through block, brute force, unstoppable, immune to dot, and all of abs man’s regular annoying abilities.

If they took DOT immunity away, it opens up so many more options that you could skillfully use to solo. Someone like Viv or Overseer would be tougher to use here, but now they should have access to their main sources of damage. It still keeps the annoyance of the fight intact cause one hit can still kill you, but now you don’t have to keep throwing 1/2 champs at him

I think the unstoppable node should go or make it shorter as then u can stay aggressive with heal blockers and not be punished as the heal block falls off due to the unstoppable is preventing u from attacking

Shiroihara

Great content. Back to the good days where skill is necessary and everyone can't get through content in 10 minutes.

Those people who have played the game only since herc came out and never explored act 6 with 5*3 and r4 before it was ever nerfed might now understand why they see *skill issue* so often now.

You're so amazing! No wonder it took 25 laserjohns to get to your perfect self.

iDestroyerZ

Brute force is a cheap trick Kabam - stop using it for content that already has layers of difficult nodes, restrictive objectives and defenders

Kabam did the same thing last EOP, almost every fight had brute force or the degen that transfer to the opponent (forgot the name)
It's just a lazy design made to drive more and more itens from players, like wtf do you do when you're losing like 2-3% of your health per sec and the AI is blocking nonstop or holding 2 bars of power for 20s?

Etm34

The robot tag is absolutely brutal. No viable way to deal with the unstoppable besides Dragon Man SP1, but the animation is so dang long you’re often throwing it into a block.

Also, wanted to point out the sheer ridiculousness of the reaction time.

Like, my fist is literally inside him before standing…in no way shape or form could they possibly block that! Not even mentioning the “root slide” with Sandman, where Abs just straight up moves while rooted.

That major AI issue, plus the robot objective kinda killed the fun for me

DanielRand

Great content. Back to the good days where skill is necessary and everyone can't get through content in 10 minutes.

Those people who have played the game only since herc came out and never explored act 6 with 5*3 and r4 before it was ever nerfed might now understand why they see *skill issue* so often now.

This take is narrowminded and arrogant. The point of acquiring and advancing champions is to make things easier. I'm not saying everything should be able to be smashed through, but there should be an advantage to have being around a longer. Every summoner has the ability to make content harder if they want to. So next time you want to be challenged, try EQ with 4*s, until then get off your high horse.

Deacon

Unfortunately the hallways at KABAM HQ live by one rule .. if the YouTubers can do it .. then it's fine.

Klipp

Why doesn’t power drain work? Tried OG Vision and warlock and no power drain

The power burn counts as a dot passive is my guess. I tried this as well, glad I burned 10 energy "testing" something

Chovner

Watching your energy refills turn to dust like Thanos snapped them away while trying to get good at this fight is probably the most angry I've been trying any content in this game... seriously.

Nescio

What I had in mind when they announced this, was something closer to Necropolis Elsa and thats not what we got. Now I'm just not excited about the rest of the event and will probably just not bother with it anymore, which is pretty disappointing.

DiscoNnectKing

Currently owning 21 7*. None i can use for absman tho. Have to do robot with a 6* r3 warlock!! Gamma still sucked but did it with r2 hulk. To place a deathless piece here is just dissapointing

Gaborrrrr

Can I unregistered or delete this game mode somehow? I don’t even want to see it on the main screen, so bad.

iDestroyerZ

This fight has the same genius design as the carina's challenge: 3* cyclops against the collector, meaning? A revive sink
If you could at least REMOVE BRUTE FORCE then you'd be able to wait out the unstoppable and the refined magma form, but they won't because we need to buy revives and spend tons of it

For ME, a great design fight is the one you can do the fight if you do everything right and has skill, if you make a mistake then you use a revive and try again, it's only fair....but the design of this fight has NOTHING to do with skill, you die if you parry, if you try to bait heavy you die, if you wait too much to attack you die, if you do 2 hits on the magma form you die, where's the options?

Sure you can avoid the burst damage that would insta kill you sometimes but everything in the fight has to align perfectly for that to happen...in a fight that you need to do 300+ hits that complicates everything

This fight need to be toned down

BigBlueOx

It’s not even the roster limitations… it’s the removal of alternative damage sources these champ rely on

DanielRand

And oh my god can we please retire this Do Eq WiTh FoUr StArS garbage? It was a bad idea when it was originally suggested and it hasn’t gotten better with age. Using lower star champs doesn’t make uninteresting content harder, it just makes it take longer.

I will agree to retire this notion when “skill issue” is likewise retired.

And I never said it should be easy or an auto win. I said it should be “easier”. Meaning content should be less difficult if you have have acquired and ranked up champs.

This content keeps making sure you have to have the max ranked possible champs to even have a chance on top using resources. At some point it becomes too much for long time players who are not most talented. There is a max ability for what some players can physically attain and they shouldn’t feel excluded if they just can’t get there.

Sir_Globalot

For me, I say leave the fight as is. They should, however, reduce the Deathless piece point requirement to 12, so that players can obtain it by doing one challenge per fight. It means you could pick Gamma or Robot, and it becomes far more reasonable whilst still being a challenge.

DiscoNnectKing

Jeah thats also true. But if i had a 7* r2 warlock i would be able to do it

BigBlueOx

This was a problem in the EoP fights too. I think the tags would have been fine if they didn’t completely destroy all sources of secondary damage
Yeah, I think this is where I’m at with this fight. If the anti DOT node really only cut out DOT sources and not all red numbers (except for some like Void and Spider-Ham for reasons unknown!), I think this fight would’ve still been extremely challenging without being quite so obnoxious.

My favorite part of these challenges, historically, has been the theory crafting for viable champs to bring in or play styles to try. That is very noticeably absent for this fight. I’m still gonna do it, but it’s just missing that aspect I enjoyed so much from past iterations.

Completely agree. The removal of any and all red numbers greatly limits options. It seems like a node that was crafted to target Scorpion but not evaluated to see how it impacted the others in the pool. As a result it’s just gonna be a long and boring slog of a fight

ahmynuts

For me, I say leave the fight as is. They should, however, reduce the Deathless piece point requirement to 12, so that players can obtain it by doing one challenge per fight. It means you could pick Gamma or Robot, and it becomes far more reasonable whilst still being a challenge.

I agree. It's way more unfair for paragon players since they don't have the luxury of skipping an objective. Valiant players are struggling with this convoluted mess

Graves_3

This fight has the same genius design as the carina's challenge: 3* cyclops against the collector, meaning? A revive sink
If you could at least REMOVE BRUTE FORCE then you'd be able to wait out the unstoppable and the refined magma form, but they won't because we need to buy revives and spend tons of it

For ME, a great design fight is the one you can do the fight if you do everything right and has skill, if you make a mistake then you use a revive and try again, it's only fair....but the design of this fight has NOTHING to do with skill, you die if you parry, if you try to bait heavy you die, if you wait too much to attack you die, if you do 2 hits on the magma form you die, where's the options?

Sure you can avoid the burst damage that would insta kill you sometimes but everything in the fight has to align perfectly for that to happen...in a fight that you need to do 300+ hits that complicates everything

This fight need to be toned down

You forgot about the regen. You have to do all this while making sure you have abs man heal blocked.

Chovner

Given the huge community feedback on the energy cost for the WOW Abs Man fight, I wanted to go back and look at the livestream where Kabam Jax and Kevin discussed the cost, the minimal impact and why it was necessary just to see how well that discussion aged:
Discussion starts at time stamp 00:52:22 (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2051027112)

1. Kevin's uncomfortable laugh when he starts talking about the energy cost is a clear indication they know it won't be news that's received well by the community but still he and Jax go on to note how LOW the cost is. I don't think either of them actually believe that honestly.

2. Kevin making it a point to mention that the 10 energy per try isn't going to limit everyone extremely is obviously wrong. In order for most players to practice this fight enough to get good at it is going to cost A LOT of energy refills from stash and/or units. Any energy that's spent on this one fight takes away from all the other content to be done for EQ, SQ, BGs, Apothecary, so YES putting 10 energy per attempt is VERY limiting for players.

3. Jax joking that this is going to take up a lot of our energy and then Kevin laughingly saying he doesn't think it will shows a bit of a lack of consideration from my point above.

4. Watching Jax and Kevin both trying to hard sell that 10 energy per run is low and pretty easy is cringy and uncomfortable. Seems evident neither of them believe what they're saying and trying their best to justify it.

5. Discussing that the justification for having this energy cost is because the team thinks we need to invest something in order to receive rewards in the end isn't wrong, but why isn't it enough that we invest revives, health pots and units to try and take down this tough fight? Getting all 3 of those resources cost time and ENERGY to acquire in order to be able to do this fight as it is (most of us aren't MSD, and Bero Man who can solo these fights).

6. What is really wrong with having a 1-2 energy cost per entry? People get more chances at getting better at the fight and try out different champs/strategies. Kevin mentions a cool part of this is seeing people run through different attempts trying to take this down, so that point alone should be a justification that you make the cost of entry as low as possible to foster that type of engagement and content.

7. If they team feels like we need to invest energy for big rewards then why wasn't Necropolis 5 energy per node? 1 energy per node was enough investment for that game mode which should be the same for this.

All said and done, outside of the objectives challenges for this fight, the energy cost feels like a HUGE miss that's added unnecessary pain to an already painful challenge.

GroundedWisdom

You see, this is Everest Content, mean a few players that are on the top will actually be able to do it without problems, and guess what, these players probably have all the champs in the game even the newest ones, and are able to rank them just for one mission.
So yeah I'm not angry I can't do it with ease because I'm not actually supposed to
Trash ass take. Then why open the event for Paragons then? Since according to you this is just for “the top of the game players”
Valiant just came out, you think everyone top player isn't paragon anymore?

Yes.

VanillaCoke

And this is why we keep receipts 👏🏼

Moosetiptronic

Great content. Back to the good days where skill is necessary and everyone can't get through content in 10 minutes.

Those people who have played the game only since herc came out and never explored act 6 with 5*3 and r4 before it was ever nerfed might now understand why they see *skill issue* so often now.

Mate, don't be a twat.

I'm valiant, R3 7* warlock, duped 7* sandman, 7* hulk.. necropolis fully explored.

This event sucks.

The energy requirement is the largest part of the suck; I'd probably eventually get there with two of these, probably all three.

But the combo of nodes, huge healing (one sp1 takes him from 50% to 70% on a try where debuffs fell off) and brutal energy cost preventing retrys?

It's just not it. They've missed the mark on this one.

Wicket329

This was a problem in the EoP fights too. I think the tags would have been fine if they didn’t completely destroy all sources of secondary damage
Yeah, I think this is where I’m at with this fight. If the anti DOT node really only cut out DOT sources and not all red numbers (except for some like Void and Spider-Ham for reasons unknown!), I think this fight would’ve still been extremely challenging without being quite so obnoxious.

My favorite part of these challenges, historically, has been the theory crafting for viable champs to bring in or play styles to try. That is very noticeably absent for this fight. I’m still gonna do it, but it’s just missing that aspect I enjoyed so much from past iterations.
Completely agree. The removal of any and all red numbers greatly limits options. It seems like a node that was crafted to target Scorpion but not evaluated to see how it impacted the others in the pool. As a result it’s just gonna be a long and boring slog of a fight

What bothers me so much about it is how inconsistent it is. Because it isn’t all red numbers. Void still works. Spider-Ham still works. So there are some red number damage types that work. If it were just flat out “only attack damage works” I’d accept that. But instead we have this incredibly convoluted node that sounds like it should apply to one set of things, actually catches a bunch of other things, and provides no reasoning for it.