This is absolute nonsense first Serpent staying as he is and now this
It's amazing that after all these years, people don't understand the difference between fixing bugs and buffs or nerfs.
Did you ever see the description of his sp1? There is no mention of any such so called it will not stack....
Where does it say it will stack?
If you've read a champion's abilities before, the absense of an explicitly stated non-stacking clause means that the ability will stack unless otherwise stated.
how is any of that more unbalanced than any of the Serpents 2001 mechanics that diminish skill in favor of counters? I just don’t see how addressing a 3.5 year old mechanic is a worth it.
This is just a strawman argument.
My post in no way comments on this in either direction. You're not even responding to the points I made you're simply saying "Look over here" and making a statement that, in no way, relates to mine.
Your statement being true does not invalidate my post.
One can be outraged at both situations, neither, or outraged at one and understand the other. They're mutually exclusive of each other and in no way correlate.
this adjustment isn't a damaging as we think. he's lagging behind these days since he's locked as a 6* and he's still good after the change.
let's hope they bring the 7.
Have to imagine they did this to keep him from being way OP as a 7*.
In truth, this is what the balance program is for, to prevent OP attackers like Hercules to enter the contest. All this stuff about buffing champs, nerfing BS defenders, is a lie.
Might as well rename it the Hercules Prevention Program
This is totally BS. They took advantage of incomplete description. kingpin description is confusing. It says "while degen is active" no matter how many degen and it doesn't say each degen will reduce AA and attack. Kabam found this incomplete description and use it as advantage to nerf kingpin...
Well Played Kabam. You are the real GOAT🤪
TBH I really don't care of this change. I only use kingpin for path 9 in AW. Against thing this extra AAR would be useful. I would be happy if kabam release rank down ticket for kingpin...
But I have one question still attack rating will reduce with multiple right? becuase in release note they didn't mention about attack rating...they only mention about AAR..
This is totally BS. They took advantage of incomplete description. kingpin description is confusing. It says "while degen is active" no matter how many degen and it doesn't say each degen will reduce AA and attack. Kabam found this incomplete description and use it as advantage to nerf kingpin...
Well Played Kabam. You are the real GOAT🤪
TBH I really don't care of this change. I only use kingpin for path 9 in AW. Against thing this extra AAR would be useful.
But I have one question still attack rating will reduce with multiple right? becuase in release note they didn't mention about attack rating...they only mention about AAR..
This is totally BS. They took advantage of incomplete description. kingpin description is confusing. It says "while degen is active" no matter how many degen and it doesn't say each degen will reduce AA and attack. Kabam found this incomplete description and use it as advantage to nerf kingpin...
Well Played Kabam. You are the real GOAT🤪
TBH I really don't care of this change. I only use kingpin for path 9 in AW. Against thing this extra AAR would be useful.
But I have one question still attack rating will reduce with multiple right? becuase in release note they didn't mention about attack rating...they only mention about AAR..
I'm guessing attack rating is still the same
Then AAR should also be the same. Becuase both the things are mentioned in single statement.kingpin reduce 50% after one degen and 2nd degen reduce 25% more and 12.5%. I am really confused how they considering this ability.
This is ridiculous, and the fact that no one out of everyone who buffed, implemented and tested the buff did not see anything wrong with it over 3 years is just a terrible habit that kabam seems to have with champions.
the ability description is very similar to other champs but this is even more confusing and can only be taken in the way the champion works, which is stacking aar past 100%, that no one including all the top at kabam and designers who know kingpin is a counter to new champion or part of meta totally forgot that's not how it works.
such a terrible timing, with not rebalancing serpent to now changing kingpin to his intended use too far late after the buff.
This is absolute nonsense first Serpent staying as he is and now this
It's amazing that after all these years, people don't understand the difference between fixing bugs and buffs or nerfs.
Did you ever see the description of his sp1? There is no mention of any such so called it will not stack....
Where does it say it will stack?
If you've read a champion's abilities before, the absense of an explicitly stated non-stacking clause means that the ability will stack unless otherwise stated.
This is not always true depending on the ability in question. To be honest, I'm a little confused by how many people are misunderstanding the wording here.
To use another example of a similar ability, Onslaught's Organic Magnetism reduces Combat Power Rate and Ability Accuracy while having a stack limit of 8. However, while it's active, his SP1 costs 33% less power.
Here's the ability exactly: "While Organic Magnetism is active, this Special costs 33% less Power and is more likely to be activated."
There's no stack limit mentioned in this part. By your definition, his kit should be allowing for his SP1 to cost 264% less power at 8 stacks because there is no non-stacking clause or stack limit on this secondary effect of Organic Magnetism. The only noticeable difference between this ability and Kingpin's is that the Degenerations have no stack limit.
The amount of Organic Magnetism doesn't matter because you only need one active to decrease the power spent on his SP1. Kingpin can inflict multiple Degenerations, but he only needs one to decrease Attack Rating and defensive AA. Their abilities are not affected by the amount of Degeneration or Organic Magnetism because it does not specifically say so. It is simply about the presence of either one on the opponent.
In most cases, there would be a line that mentions "per Debuff/Buff" or "for every Debuff/Buff active," but that's missing here.
As an example, Mr. Negative has a similar ability in his signature ability, in which he deals Physical Damage while the opponent is suffering from a non-damaging Debuff. However, in this case, it deals X Physical Damage for each Dark Energy. In this case, it's specifically mentioned that it's per Dark Energy.
I've seen a couple of people suggesting how this could've been avoided by adding a stack limit, but I think that would actually be a worse fix as the stack limit would be set to 1 to match the original and intended design. At least now, Kingpin can still stack Degenerations, keeping that avenue of damage where it is, even if it is less significant.
This is absolute nonsense first Serpent staying as he is and now this
It's amazing that after all these years, people don't understand the difference between fixing bugs and buffs or nerfs.
Did you ever see the description of his sp1? There is no mention of any such so called it will not stack....
Where does it say it will stack?
If you've read a champion's abilities before, the absense of an explicitly stated non-stacking clause means that the ability will stack unless otherwise stated.
Apart from the AI and input issue, thing were actually going well with MCOC, Kabam and the community in 2023 and Necropolis
* We got well balance designed champs * The Community Management team active, information and communication was on the improve * Dialogue between the community and the developers were more clear which learn to better understand between the 2 sides. * There were issues at least it seem to head in the right direction.
Come 2024, Kabam and Netmarble took a look at their cashflow and:-
* Employees get fired * Those that stay have take on more work * Chase Champions Tactic to increase income got more aggressive with OP Defenders. * And now this.
To be honest, we as a community can say, discuss and argue as much as we want, but I don't see it making any difference.
Everyone have the right to their opinions. There are many sales and purchase opportunities in the game, so players also have to opportunity to express their opinions through those as well.
There is something worst than your users being angry at your product, it is when they stop caring.
Well, for me the fact that KP is one of my favourite champions, the Serpent adjustment being an open goal, the Reunion crystal event having ended and the fact that I've just pulled 7* Storm Pyramid X AGAIN, isn't filling me with enthusiasm.
I like what I've read so far about what's coming up over the next four months for the most part, but the shine has been taken off them a fair bit by stuff like this. Which is a shame because I'd rather be positive.
Fun, I do wonder if the history of that word, how many time does it work, telling someone to calm down.
@WednesdayLength next time you are out and come face to face with someone angry, why don't you try saying that and see how affective it is.
The reason why this game have last 10 years, is down to one reason, the passion of the players (community) for this game (well that and addition).
That is why they will to drop thousands and thousands of their own money (hard earned money) into this game.
It create job, cashflow that pay for those at Kabam that making these decision ingame, like not rebalancing Serpent or neff Moleman or Kingpin (looking at Nick with trepidation).
The funny thing about passion it that is fuse love (for the game), but it is also the same fuse that cause anger.
So yeah, maybe we should all calm down, maybe we should all stop care, maybe we should stop spending, maybe we should all move on. Sure that will help the game grow and last for another 10 years.
Like I said there are worser thing than the users being angry at your decision, action and product. They can stop caring.
Anyway get this feeling that it is pointless discussing thing with you @WednesdayLength , so just gonna wish you a good day. I will get in with my day and not think about MCOC.
Fun, I do wonder if the history of that word, how many time does it work, telling someone to calm down.
@WednesdayLength next time you are out and come face to face with someone angry, why don't you try saying that and see how affective it is.
The reason why this game have last 10 years, is down to one reason, the passion of the players (community) for this game (well that and addition).
That is why they will to drop thousands and thousands of their own money (hard earned money) into this game.
It create job, cashflow that pay for those at Kabam that making these decision ingame, like not rebalancing Serpent or neff Moleman or Kingpin (looking at Nick with trepidation).
The funny thing about passion it that is fuse love (for the game), but it is also the same fuse that cause anger.
So yeah, maybe we should all calm down, maybe we should all stop care, maybe we should stop spending, maybe we should all move on. Sure that will help the game grow and last for another 10 years.
Like I said there are worser thing than the users being angry at your decision, action and product. They can stop caring.
Anyway get this feeling that it is pointless discussing thing with you @WednesdayLength , so just gonna wish you a good day. I will get in with my day and not think about MCOC.
I would like for an option to block people in forums for one self. I have few names in mind whose messages I would like to never see.
I'm pretty sure if we could do that, nobody would ever see them argue ever again. They would just vanish completely without a trace because everyone would have them blocked 😂
I don't really care about the fix itself since I wasn't even aware that it stacked and have always assumed that it worked as intended (I think the ability description is pretty clear that your opponent gets -50% to their attack rating and -65% to their ability accuracy while they are degenerated, and that these effects shouldn't reasonably stack).
However, as always, I think Kabam could be more upfront with fixes when they come years and years after a champion's release/buff. Unless this was a bug that popped up in the last month or so (and I'll just assume that it's not since no one has stated anything differently), it just feels weird to bug fix a champ after such a long time. At some point, I would just assume that Kabam is cool with how someone functions in the game regardless if that performance matches their ability descriptions word-for-word. I think that's a perfectly reasonable assumption and I think that any changes should be handle with more care than they (at admittedly very rare times) have a tendency to handle them with.
English is a hard language, but his kit as it currently stands actually reads more like the effects are supposed to stack.
Let's take Onslaught, this is what is stated "While Organic Magnetism is active, this Special costs 33% less Power and is more likely to be activated." This is clearly worded, while Organic Magnetism is active, pass/fail, on or off.
The problem is the word "this" in Kingpin's current kit. "this" could refer to degeneration overall, but most would interpret "this" to be a reference to each stack of degen.
the ambiguity of including "this" degeneration is why no one would assume this wasn't working as intended.
I was just discussing about the AAR on Kingpin on the other post can came to a realisation.
Now let me get this clear, I don't think this is intention as a dual things, just very bad timing from Kabam (most likely from over work staffs and lack of communication).
But before Kingpin can stack the AAR, most I got is 2, so that is 130%.
Serpent Death Immune buff have a 125% chance.
Did Kingpin had a chance of being a counter before? I genuinely don't know either way.
But man whatever it is, sure is really really bad timing.
This is absolute nonsense first Serpent staying as he is and now this
It's amazing that after all these years, people don't understand the difference between fixing bugs and buffs or nerfs.
Did you ever see the description of his sp1? There is no mention of any such so called it will not stack....
Where does it say it will stack?
If you've read a champion's abilities before, the absense of an explicitly stated non-stacking clause means that the ability will stack unless otherwise stated.
This is not always true depending on the ability in question. To be honest, I'm a little confused by how many people are misunderstanding the wording here.
To use another example of a similar ability, Onslaught's Organic Magnetism reduces Combat Power Rate and Ability Accuracy while having a stack limit of 8. However, while it's active, his SP1 costs 33% less power.
Here's the ability exactly: "While Organic Magnetism is active, this Special costs 33% less Power and is more likely to be activated."
There's no stack limit mentioned in this part. By your definition, his kit should be allowing for his SP1 to cost 264% less power at 8 stacks because there is no non-stacking clause or stack limit on this secondary effect of Organic Magnetism. The only noticeable difference between this ability and Kingpin's is that the Degenerations have no stack limit.
The amount of Organic Magnetism doesn't matter because you only need one active to decrease the power spent on his SP1. Kingpin can inflict multiple Degenerations, but he only needs one to decrease Attack Rating and defensive AA. Their abilities are not affected by the amount of Degeneration or Organic Magnetism because it does not specifically say so. It is simply about the presence of either one on the opponent.
In most cases, there would be a line that mentions "per Debuff/Buff" or "for every Debuff/Buff active," but that's missing here.
As an example, Mr. Negative has a similar ability in his signature ability, in which he deals Physical Damage while the opponent is suffering from a non-damaging Debuff. However, in this case, it deals X Physical Damage for each Dark Energy. In this case, it's specifically mentioned that it's per Dark Energy.
I've seen a couple of people suggesting how this could've been avoided by adding a stack limit, but I think that would actually be a worse fix as the stack limit would be set to 1 to match the original and intended design. At least now, Kingpin can still stack Degenerations, keeping that avenue of damage where it is, even if it is less significant.
With the Onslaught example you aren't counting the percentages correctly. You are treating the percentages as if they were flat increases (which do exist of course) by adding them directly to one another. Onslaught's power cost mechanic is not flat.
Assuming they stack (spotlight doesn't explicitly state otherwise) and my maths is correct, Onslaught's SP1 should cost Y% less power where Y is 100 - (100(2/3)^x) where x is the amount of Organic Magnetism effects active on the opponent.
With this in mind, Onslaught will approach no power loss over an infinite amount of Organic Magnetism effects, but effectively becomes 100% less power at around 20 effects.
It takes them 3 years to "fix"something as mediocre as this.
So that means the AI related bugs that have been here for years will probably take a decade or two to fix at this point ... not to mention we already have almost a decade long bugs that yet haven't been fixed.
Shame on you, that's all. This is incompetence at it's best.
Comments
this adjustment isn't a damaging as we think. he's lagging behind these days since he's locked as a 6* and he's still good after the change.
let's hope they bring the 7.
My post in no way comments on this in either direction. You're not even responding to the points I made you're simply saying "Look over here" and making a statement that, in no way, relates to mine.
Your statement being true does not invalidate my post.
One can be outraged at both situations, neither, or outraged at one and understand the other. They're mutually exclusive of each other and in no way correlate.
Might as well rename it the Hercules Prevention Program
Silk
Quicksilver
Che’ilth
Kingpin does not have that.
Well Played Kabam. You are the real GOAT🤪
TBH I really don't care of this change. I only use kingpin for path 9 in AW. Against thing this extra AAR would be useful. I would be happy if kabam release rank down ticket for kingpin...
But I have one question still attack rating will reduce with multiple right? becuase in release note they didn't mention about attack rating...they only mention about AAR..
the ability description is very similar to other champs but this is even more confusing and can only be taken in the way the champion works, which is stacking aar past 100%, that no one including all the top at kabam and designers who know kingpin is a counter to new champion or part of meta totally forgot that's not how it works.
such a terrible timing, with not rebalancing serpent to now changing kingpin to his intended use too far late after the buff.
To use another example of a similar ability, Onslaught's Organic Magnetism reduces Combat Power Rate and Ability Accuracy while having a stack limit of 8. However, while it's active, his SP1 costs 33% less power.
Here's the ability exactly: "While Organic Magnetism is active, this Special costs 33% less Power and is more likely to be activated."
There's no stack limit mentioned in this part. By your definition, his kit should be allowing for his SP1 to cost 264% less power at 8 stacks because there is no non-stacking clause or stack limit on this secondary effect of Organic Magnetism. The only noticeable difference between this ability and Kingpin's is that the Degenerations have no stack limit.
The amount of Organic Magnetism doesn't matter because you only need one active to decrease the power spent on his SP1. Kingpin can inflict multiple Degenerations, but he only needs one to decrease Attack Rating and defensive AA. Their abilities are not affected by the amount of Degeneration or Organic Magnetism because it does not specifically say so. It is simply about the presence of either one on the opponent.
In most cases, there would be a line that mentions "per Debuff/Buff" or "for every Debuff/Buff active," but that's missing here.
As an example, Mr. Negative has a similar ability in his signature ability, in which he deals Physical Damage while the opponent is suffering from a non-damaging Debuff. However, in this case, it deals X Physical Damage for each Dark Energy. In this case, it's specifically mentioned that it's per Dark Energy.
I've seen a couple of people suggesting how this could've been avoided by adding a stack limit, but I think that would actually be a worse fix as the stack limit would be set to 1 to match the original and intended design. At least now, Kingpin can still stack Degenerations, keeping that avenue of damage where it is, even if it is less significant.
* We got well balance designed champs
* The Community Management team active, information and communication was on the improve
* Dialogue between the community and the developers were more clear which learn to better understand between the 2 sides.
* There were issues at least it seem to head in the right direction.
Come 2024, Kabam and Netmarble took a look at their cashflow and:-
* Employees get fired
* Those that stay have take on more work
* Chase Champions Tactic to increase income got more aggressive with OP Defenders.
* And now this.
To be honest, we as a community can say, discuss and argue as much as we want, but I don't see it making any difference.
Everyone have the right to their opinions.
There are many sales and purchase opportunities in the game, so players also have to opportunity to express their opinions through those as well.
There is something worst than your users being angry at your product, it is when they stop caring.
I like what I've read so far about what's coming up over the next four months for the most part, but the shine has been taken off them a fair bit by stuff like this. Which is a shame because I'd rather be positive.
@WednesdayLength next time you are out and come face to face with someone angry, why don't you try saying that and see how affective it is.
The reason why this game have last 10 years, is down to one reason, the passion of the players (community) for this game (well that and addition).
That is why they will to drop thousands and thousands of their own money (hard earned money) into this game.
It create job, cashflow that pay for those at Kabam that making these decision ingame, like not rebalancing Serpent or neff Moleman or Kingpin (looking at Nick with trepidation).
The funny thing about passion it that is fuse love (for the game), but it is also the same fuse that cause anger.
So yeah, maybe we should all calm down, maybe we should all stop care, maybe we should stop spending, maybe we should all move on. Sure that will help the game grow and last for another 10 years.
Like I said there are worser thing than the users being angry at your decision, action and product. They can stop caring.
Anyway get this feeling that it is pointless discussing thing with you @WednesdayLength , so just gonna wish you a good day. I will get in with my day and not think about MCOC.
I'm busy doing DIY outside today.
Can you tag me when KT1 upload his video on this. 🤣🤣🤣.
The poor guy tried so hard to be more gentle with Kabam and they just keep poking the bear with the stick 😔.
However, as always, I think Kabam could be more upfront with fixes when they come years and years after a champion's release/buff. Unless this was a bug that popped up in the last month or so (and I'll just assume that it's not since no one has stated anything differently), it just feels weird to bug fix a champ after such a long time. At some point, I would just assume that Kabam is cool with how someone functions in the game regardless if that performance matches their ability descriptions word-for-word. I think that's a perfectly reasonable assumption and I think that any changes should be handle with more care than they (at admittedly very rare times) have a tendency to handle them with.
Let's take Onslaught, this is what is stated "While Organic Magnetism is active, this Special costs 33% less Power and is more likely to be activated." This is clearly worded, while Organic Magnetism is active, pass/fail, on or off.
The problem is the word "this" in Kingpin's current kit. "this" could refer to degeneration overall, but most would interpret "this" to be a reference to each stack of degen.
the ambiguity of including "this" degeneration is why no one would assume this wasn't working as intended.
I was just discussing about the AAR on Kingpin on the other post can came to a realisation.
Now let me get this clear, I don't think this is intention as a dual things, just very bad timing from Kabam (most likely from over work staffs and lack of communication).
But before Kingpin can stack the AAR, most I got is 2, so that is 130%.
Serpent Death Immune buff have a 125% chance.
Did Kingpin had a chance of being a counter before? I genuinely don't know either way.
But man whatever it is, sure is really really bad timing.
Unambiguous language in a character’s description is feed for all of changing whatever you want.
Assuming they stack (spotlight doesn't explicitly state otherwise) and my maths is correct, Onslaught's SP1 should cost Y% less power where Y is 100 - (100(2/3)^x) where x is the amount of Organic Magnetism effects active on the opponent.
With this in mind, Onslaught will approach no power loss over an infinite amount of Organic Magnetism effects, but effectively becomes 100% less power at around 20 effects.
So that means the AI related bugs that have been here for years will probably take a decade or two to fix at this point ... not to mention we already have almost a decade long bugs that yet haven't been fixed.
Shame on you, that's all. This is incompetence at it's best.