Wait.. The Serpent is balanced but Kingpin needed a nerf??

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Comments

  • SquidopusSquidopus Member Posts: 467 ★★★
    Fryday said:

    Good lord,

    I was just discussing about the AAR on Kingpin on the other post can came to a realisation.

    Now let me get this clear, I don't think this is intention as a dual things, just very bad timing from Kabam (most likely from over work staffs and lack of communication).

    But before Kingpin can stack the AAR, most I got is 2, so that is 130%.

    Serpent Death Immune buff have a 125% chance.

    Did Kingpin had a chance of being a counter before? I genuinely don't know either way.

    But man whatever it is, sure is really really bad timing.

    In theory if it stacked like that then yeah, but in practice I think it’d probably be impractical. Since it’s DAAR, Kingpin can only prevent death immunity if he lands the killing blow, not if the degen damage brings him down to 1 hp. Between Serpent’s insane bulk (crit resistance, resistance up, crit penetration reduction) lowering Kingpin’s hit damage, the degen damage NOT being lowered, Serpent’s power gain and long specials often forcing you to back off and not hit him for a while, and the fact spamming sp1 means you aren’t getting extra attack via sp2 all add up to mean you probably weren’t in a position to possibly prevent death immunity at all. Honestly Serpent forcing you to back off and wait so much might make it impossible to realistically have multiple degens at once anyways.

    But hey we’ve got about 2 days before the next patch, and this bug fix, goes live. If someone wants to prove my theorycrafting wrong you’ve got a bit of time to do so. I’m not a Kingpin player but I’m interested to see if people can use him to reliably bypass death immunity (and if, to a lesser extent, Kingpin can bring down Serpent in a timely manner doing so).
  • Shock29Shock29 Member Posts: 571 ★★★
    IKON said:

    English is a hard language, but his kit as it currently stands actually reads more like the effects are supposed to stack.

    Let's take Onslaught, this is what is stated "While Organic Magnetism is active, this Special costs 33% less Power and is more likely to be activated." This is clearly worded, while Organic Magnetism is active, pass/fail, on or off.

    The problem is the word "this" in Kingpin's current kit. "this" could refer to degeneration overall, but most would interpret "this" to be a reference to each stack of degen.

    the ambiguity of including "this" degeneration is why no one would assume this wasn't working as intended.

    I see that but I also think that "this" could be another way of saying the ability only triggers with his personal Degeneration. Degeneration is a very common ability for many champions and nodes so this was likely to prevent his ability from triggering due to other Degeneration effects.

    For Onslaught, there's no need to use "this" or include the word "personal" because he's the only champion that uses Organic Magnetism (as of now). The way the ability is worded even covers if Organic Magnetism is either a Debuff or a Passive.
  • edited August 31
    This content has been removed.
  • Shock29Shock29 Member Posts: 571 ★★★
    edited August 31
    @IKON I already posted my comment but to add something, Silk's ability on her signature ability is worded almost exactly the same as Kingpin's ability and uses "this." I'm almost certain now that the word "this" is there to account for how common Slow, or Degeneration in Kingpin's case, is as an ability and confine the additional effects to their personal effects.

    From Silk's kit: "While this Slow is active, during Silk's attack the Opponent suffers -150% Regeneration Rate"
  • SquidopusSquidopus Member Posts: 467 ★★★

    Squidopus said:

    I’m not a Kingpin player but I’m interested to see if people can use him to reliably bypass death immunity (and if, to a lesser extent, Kingpin can bring down Serpent in a timely manner doing so).

    You very much can. It's not going to happen every fight, but it was possible if timed correctly.

    https://youtu.be/7kXMUx-AQBM?si=82r7eS-CCc4frUrp
    So it probably works at a base level then, but that’s of course a practice fight against a far weaker Serpent than usual. I’m more interested in if it’s a practical thing to go for in bgs, the problem game mode. I imagine it’s way tougher to set up in that scenario where Serpent also has time to ramp up his threat.
  • SquidopusSquidopus Member Posts: 467 ★★★
    Still interesting to see that it’s possible, although to confirm if it truly worked reliably we’d need a lot more than one fight. I also imagine that people just aren’t interested in testing things that will be gone in 2 days though lol so no pressure or anything, it’s not like I’m really contributing anything other than my thoughts.
  • BeastDadBeastDad Member Posts: 1,877 ★★★★★
    BigBlueOx said:

    Squidopus said:

    I’m not a Kingpin player but I’m interested to see if people can use him to reliably bypass death immunity (and if, to a lesser extent, Kingpin can bring down Serpent in a timely manner doing so).

    You very much can. It's not going to happen every fight, but it was possible if timed correctly.

    https://youtu.be/7kXMUx-AQBM?si=82r7eS-CCc4frUrp
    Oh well that’s too OP then… can’t have AAR stopping Serpent
    Bingo
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,439 ★★★★★
    It’s the weekend now but I appreciate people keeping this thread and the nerf serpent thread alive. Hopefully come Monday we get some sort of mod response
  • BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Member Posts: 2,312 ★★★★★
    edited August 31
    Emilia90 said:

    It’s the weekend now but I appreciate people keeping this thread and the nerf serpent thread alive. Hopefully come Monday we get some sort of mod response

    Really has me missing the days where somebody would come in and let us know if it’s even being discussed or would even simply come in and tell us no matter what we thought this was the direction the game is going in and that’s the end of the matter. Miike may not have always been tactful in his responses but he at least did this on any issue with this much visibility.

    It’s on little things like this I’ve noticed his role for the community through the absence of what he used to do.
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,439 ★★★★★
    BigBlueOx said:

    Emilia90 said:

    It’s the weekend now but I appreciate people keeping this thread and the nerf serpent thread alive. Hopefully come Monday we get some sort of mod response

    Really has me missing the days where somebody would come in and let us know if it’s even being discussed or would even simply come in and tell no matter what we thought this was the direction the game is going in and that’s the end of the matter. Miike may not have always been tactful in his responses but he at least did this on any issue with this much visibility.
    Yeah they’re already aware but we’ll have to see next week. I know for a fact that crashed has already read these threads and the discord dogpiled DLL (not supporting that) but they’re well aware of the backlash. He said that we’d get more information soon or something though once everyone’s cooled off
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,417 ★★★
    Yall need to calm down.
    Fryday said:

    Yall need to calm down.

    Fun, I do wonder if the history of that word, how many time does it work, telling someone to calm down.

    @WednesdayLength next time you are out and come face to face with someone angry, why don't you try saying that and see how affective it is.

    The reason why this game have last 10 years, is down to one reason, the passion of the players (community) for this game (well that and addition).

    That is why they will to drop thousands and thousands of their own money (hard earned money) into this game.

    It create job, cashflow that pay for those at Kabam that making these decision ingame, like not rebalancing Serpent or neff Moleman or Kingpin (looking at Nick with trepidation).

    The funny thing about passion it that is fuse love (for the game), but it is also the same fuse that cause anger.

    So yeah, maybe we should all calm down, maybe we should all stop care, maybe we should stop spending, maybe we should all move on. Sure that will help the game grow and last for another 10 years.

    Like I said there are worser thing than the users being angry at your decision, action and product. They can stop caring.

    Anyway get this feeling that it is pointless discussing thing with you @WednesdayLength , so just gonna wish you a good day. I will get in with my day and not think about MCOC.
    I'm not disagreeing with any of that, I'm merely saying that complaining about a bug being fixed is absurd
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,417 ★★★

    Yall need to calm down.

    Demonzfyre, GW, Colinwhitworth you guys can welcome the newest member to the white knight council! It's official.

    Sorry I forgot that disagreeing with the majority makes me a white Knight.

    I think serpent should have been nerfed, I think it's weird that he wasn't, but I also think that the Kingpin bug was a bug and is not a nerf just because people liked it
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,417 ★★★
    BigBlueOx said:

    Yall need to calm down.

    Fryday said:

    Yall need to calm down.

    Fun, I do wonder if the history of that word, how many time does it work, telling someone to calm down.

    @WednesdayLength next time you are out and come face to face with someone angry, why don't you try saying that and see how affective it is.

    The reason why this game have last 10 years, is down to one reason, the passion of the players (community) for this game (well that and addition).

    That is why they will to drop thousands and thousands of their own money (hard earned money) into this game.

    It create job, cashflow that pay for those at Kabam that making these decision ingame, like not rebalancing Serpent or neff Moleman or Kingpin (looking at Nick with trepidation).

    The funny thing about passion it that is fuse love (for the game), but it is also the same fuse that cause anger.

    So yeah, maybe we should all calm down, maybe we should all stop care, maybe we should stop spending, maybe we should all move on. Sure that will help the game grow and last for another 10 years.

    Like I said there are worser thing than the users being angry at your decision, action and product. They can stop caring.

    Anyway get this feeling that it is pointless discussing thing with you @WednesdayLength , so just gonna wish you a good day. I will get in with my day and not think about MCOC.
    I'm not disagreeing with any of that, I'm merely saying that complaining about a bug being fixed is absurd
    I’d arguing that fixing a mechanic 3.5 years late while trying to convince us that a far more unbalanced champion is fair and on target eclipses the absurd you seem concerned about
    Almost like they're handled by different teams all together?
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,417 ★★★

    Yall need to calm down.

    Demonzfyre, GW, Colinwhitworth you guys can welcome the newest member to the white knight council! It's official.

    Sorry I forgot that disagreeing with the majority makes me a white Knight.

    I think serpent should have been nerfed, I think it's weird that he wasn't, but I also think that the Kingpin bug was a bug and is not a nerf just because people liked it
    The Galan bug has been there for years too, why haven't they fixed that? Is it because it would indirectly buff a champ that was already considered top of the cosmic class or how does that work?
    There's plenty of more likely options beyond the malice and scheming people want to believe it is
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Emilia90 said:

    Yall need to calm down.

    Demonzfyre, GW, Colinwhitworth you guys can welcome the newest member to the white knight council! It's official.

    Sorry I forgot that disagreeing with the majority makes me a white Knight.

    I think serpent should have been nerfed, I think it's weird that he wasn't, but I also think that the Kingpin bug was a bug and is not a nerf just because people liked it
    The Galan bug has been there for years too, why haven't they fixed that? Is it because it would indirectly buff a champ that was already considered top of the cosmic class or how does that work?

    I hope they finally fix the damn thing after this then, two whole years lmao.
  • DarkNightRiseDarkNightRise Member Posts: 382 ★★★
    Emilia90 said:

    It’s the weekend now but I appreciate people keeping this thread and the nerf serpent thread alive. Hopefully come Monday we get some sort of mod response

    What kind of response are you waiting from them lol! My thread about AI with over 10k view is gradually going to dead silence now because they don’t response anymore lol
  • HarryatomixHarryatomix Member Posts: 298 ★★★
    Emilia90 said:

    Yall need to calm down.

    Demonzfyre, GW, Colinwhitworth you guys can welcome the newest member to the white knight council! It's official.

    Sorry I forgot that disagreeing with the majority makes me a white Knight.

    I think serpent should have been nerfed, I think it's weird that he wasn't, but I also think that the Kingpin bug was a bug and is not a nerf just because people liked it
    The Galan bug has been there for years too, why haven't they fixed that? Is it because it would indirectly buff a champ that was already considered top of the cosmic class or how does that work?

    Where is this from? Discord?
  • IKONIKON Member Posts: 1,356 ★★★★★
    Shock29 said:

    IKON said:

    English is a hard language, but his kit as it currently stands actually reads more like the effects are supposed to stack.

    Let's take Onslaught, this is what is stated "While Organic Magnetism is active, this Special costs 33% less Power and is more likely to be activated." This is clearly worded, while Organic Magnetism is active, pass/fail, on or off.

    The problem is the word "this" in Kingpin's current kit. "this" could refer to degeneration overall, but most would interpret "this" to be a reference to each stack of degen.

    the ambiguity of including "this" degeneration is why no one would assume this wasn't working as intended.

    I see that but I also think that "this" could be another way of saying the ability only triggers with his personal Degeneration. Degeneration is a very common ability for many champions and nodes so this was likely to prevent his ability from triggering due to other Degeneration effects.

    For Onslaught, there's no need to use "this" or include the word "personal" because he's the only champion that uses Organic Magnetism (as of now). The way the ability is worded even covers if Organic Magnetism is either a Debuff or a Passive.
    I believe that was intended, but there are also instances of champion descriptions including "personal effect" which is much clearer. Ultimately I can't fault the playerbase or Kabam for interpreting it differently, as the way it's written could easily imply either. The problem of course is that it was Kabam who wrote it in the first place.
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