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6-Star Release Discussion Thread

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Comments

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,287 Guardian
    LeonBeni93 wrote: »
    -Secondly the adrenaline mechanic!I am pretty sure(and hope) the Kabam guys have already tested it thoroughly,but still its a huge difference in the game!Giving a champ a mechanic of regeneration makes a huge difference(and especially considering that for a 6* even a small percentage of life can be greater than the regeneration of some really good regenerating 4* champs....just think about a 6* Luke cage having better region than a 4* x-23 because of that mechanic!Its vastly different than adding an extra damage for sp3 or taking less damage!

    Mechanically speaking, Adrenalin isn't really regeneration however much it might look like regeneration. It is really a kind of resistance.

    Consider this progression. We have Adrenalin. A simplified description is that when you take damage, you can get back up to 30% of that damage by some means, but no more. Now imagine a stronger version of Adrenalin. In this version, when you take damage you get back 30% of that damage guaranteed without having to do anything special. In every case, this version of Adrenalin is better. Now imagine an even stronger version of Adrenalin. In this version, when you take damage 30% of that damage disappears and doesn't even land. That's even better than the previous version because now you don't even take the damage in the first place.

    Adrenalin is a kind of skill-based resistance which has a strength between zero and 30% depending on how the player plays. If you actually have regeneration, since regeneration burns Adrenalin you will tend to get less than a champion without regeneration.

    Adrenalin probably exists because of two of its properties. One is that it is skill-based, adding more gameplay features to combat. And the second is that it is a kind of non-stackable resistance. An example would be simpler than the mathematical description. Imagine two champions, both with 50% resistance to physical damage. When they are hit with a 1000 point physical attack both take 500 points of damage. Now imagine that the first champion gets Adrenalin and the second gets a different ability that just adds 30% physical resistance. Now if we hit both with 1000 point physical attacks in the first case the champion takes 500 points of damage. 150 points of that damage get converted to adrenalin and if the player manages to convert it all back into healing he will take a net 350 points of damage after everything happens. The second player will resist 80% of the attack and take 200 points of damage. Notice the second champion takes less. That's because resistance stacks on top of resistance, but Adrenalin doesn't stack with resistance, it acts independently. That makes Adrenalin much easier to tune the strength of when different champions have different levels of resistance.

    Why does regeneration burn Adrenalin? Probably because Kabam's developers are afraid of regeneration. All MMO developers are afraid of regeneration. And that's because, to put it in a mathy precise way, abilities like resistance and armor are proportional scale-invariant abilities. Regeneration is a linear non-scale invariant ability. To put it simply, in a game with resistance you can scale all the numbers up and down and you have the same game. Regeneration breaks when the game is scaled up or down in (for people not used to the math) in ways extremely difficult to balance for without resorting to math much more complex than you normally find in game development.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,287 Guardian
    Drake wrote: »
    The first 24, if nothing else, should ALL be champs that are good without awakening.

    If you make the first twenty four champions all champions that are good without awakening, then when you add the ones that do require awakening it will be significantly harder to awaken them. The best time to add champions that require awakening is when the pool of champions is the smallest it can be.

    In fact, this is not a theoretical issue. When the basic pool started adding more 5* champions, the very first complaint was that adding champions to the basic pool was making it increasingly difficult to dup Star Lord.
  • edited January 2018
    Hey All!

    We've seen a lot of questions about Adrenaline, and what better way to explain it than to show you? We worked closely with one of our Content Creators via the Content Creators Program to provide him with an exclusive first look at 6-Stars and the all-new Adrenaline mechanic!

    Here he is with another Dork Lesson, Dorky Diggedy Dave!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsG5hC0HLE
  • Great for the older players but leaves he newer ones even further behind
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,287 Guardian
    CornRolla wrote: »
    Great for the older players but leaves he newer ones even further behind

    Further behind what?
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,220 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    CornRolla wrote: »
    Great for the older players but leaves he newer ones even further behind

    Further behind what?

    There’s some sort of heated imaginary race to nothing between people that are newer and have a roster mostly appropriate to their progress and those that have played longer, completed more content, and have rosters mostly appropriate to their progress. Even though the two will almost never interact in a way that disadvantages the newer player and the newer player should not realistically have the expectation that they can also complete whatever advanced content the older player can despite having an objectively inferior roster.

    I thought you knew.
  • Gost tider
  • Gostrider
  • Major power
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,287 Guardian
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    CornRolla wrote: »
    Great for the older players but leaves he newer ones even further behind

    Further behind what?

    There’s some sort of heated imaginary race to nothing between people that are newer and have a roster mostly appropriate to their progress and those that have played longer, completed more content, and have rosters mostly appropriate to their progress. Even though the two will almost never interact in a way that disadvantages the newer player and the newer player should not realistically have the expectation that they can also complete whatever advanced content the older player can despite having an objectively inferior roster.

    I thought you knew.

    I understand that. I'm asking in what way the introduction of 6* champions specifically creates a situation where some players can increase their progressional lead over other players.

    Eventually that will happen, but not for a while. Until rank 3 is achievable with 6* champions, top players are limited to increasing their roster strength by only a moderate amount. Meanwhile everyone not a top player is getting way more 4* champions, way more 5* champions, and way more rank up resources today than was available to those top players when they were ranking up those rosters.

    If you are not a top player, then you are already behind players with top teams composed of a 5/65 and a bunch of 4/55s. 6* champions will be only a bit stronger than that, at huge upgrade costs. I can still push my roster upward much more on a relative basis than they can. And the players joining today can reach what I've currently achieved in probably half the time. That is the very definition of not falling behind.

    I'm not saying I can catch them, any more than a new player can immediately overtake me. But I am saying that the gap between me and the very top players can only get smaller, because until 6* rank 3 appears they simply can't go up as fast as I am, and neither can I progress faster than someone that starts today and starts getting 5* shards practically before they get their first 4* champion. They are not going to struggle with Act 3 and Act 4, and they aren't going to wonder when their roster will be strong enough to do RoL. As they catch up with me their progress will slow down as demands on progress increase, just as they do for everyone. But the gaps will compress nonetheless.

    The global changes happening aren't leaving anyone behind. As long as game rewards slowly drift upward and there's an absolute cap on how high you can go, the top people can't leave everyone else further behind. They have nowhere to go do to that.
  • Nabz034Nabz034 Posts: 209 ★★
    @Kabam Miike

    Quick question, to rank a 6* from 1 to 2 says we need 3 T5 Basics...inventory only holds two at a time, was that a typo or will inventory be extended?
  • Nabz034Nabz034 Posts: 209 ★★
    KyrieRed wrote: »
    What criteria did you use to decide on those champions. You know there are better options and you decided to go with the worse ones in my opinion. Why is that?

    These are far from the worst choices. Do you remember the initial 5-Star pool? This is streets ahead of that, and over time, that pool became larger and larger, and included more and more Champions that players really wanted to see.

    @Kabam Miike

    I still remember the initial 5* inventory since that’s about all I’ve been getting lately 🤬 them and Spidergwen. Any plans to rework there synergies and abilities to make them interesting again?

    Like, Spider-Man for example is the face of Marvel, he should be the best player in the game, not an after thought cause they’re useless to progress in the game because they are so dated.

    Do you guys think if DC made a game like this, that Superman and Batman would be the biggest jokes in it? And that they would come second to characters like Booster Gold in regards to there abilities?

    If you guys aren’t going to update them, fine, but wouldn’t it be fair to the players and better to completely remove them from any 5* or 6* crystals given how expensive and difficult those crystals are to even get and since they haven’t been updated since 2015?

    Also, are there any plans in the near future to fix Captain Marvels S2? I’m one of the suckers that took her to R4 and it’s been about 3 months since I’ve been able to use her S2 against any opponent with above average AI since it’s to slow to land and constantly getting blocked. Thx and sorry for the long post, just think all of this would make the game better.
  • Will i ge a 6 star crystal
  • Nabz034 wrote: »
    KyrieRed wrote: »
    What criteria did you use to decide on those champions. You know there are better options and you decided to go with the worse ones in my opinion. Why is that?

    These are far from the worst choices. Do you remember the initial 5-Star pool? This is streets ahead of that, and over time, that pool became larger and larger, and included more and more Champions that players really wanted to see.

    @Kabam Miike

    I still remember the initial 5* inventory since that’s about all I’ve been getting lately 🤬 them and Spidergwen. Any plans to rework there synergies and abilities to make them interesting again?

    Like, Spider-Man for example is the face of Marvel, he should be the best player in the game, not an after thought cause they’re useless to progress in the game because they are so dated.

    Do you guys think if DC made a game like this, that Superman and Batman would be the biggest jokes in it? And that they would come second to characters like Booster Gold in regards to there abilities?

    If you guys aren’t going to update them, fine, but wouldn’t it be fair to the players and better to completely remove them from any 5* or 6* crystals given how expensive and difficult those crystals are to even get and since they haven’t been updated since 2015?

    Also, are there any plans in the near future to fix Captain Marvels S2? I’m one of the suckers that took her to R4 and it’s been about 3 months since I’ve been able to use her S2 against any opponent with above average AI since it’s to slow to land and constantly getting blocked. Thx and sorry for the long post, just think all of this would make the game better.
    Spider Man probably IS the best champ in the game, it’s just that it’s the Stark Spidey version.

    We don’t know yet which version will be added but hopefully they go with the latter and leave the OG version for the 5* crystal.

    I’m hoping they do that with all the champs who are in more than once. We don’t need 2 versions of cyclops, magneto, Iron Man, Cap and so on and so on. Pick the best version and stick with it.
  • DNA3000 wrote: »
    Mechanically speaking, Adrenalin isn't really regeneration however much it might look like regeneration. It is really a kind of resistance.

    Consider this progression. We have Adrenalin. A simplified description is that when you take damage, you can get back up to 30% of that damage by some means, but no more. Now imagine a stronger version of Adrenalin. In this version, when you take damage you get back 30% of that damage guaranteed without having to do anything special. In every case, this version of Adrenalin is better. Now imagine an even stronger version of Adrenalin. In this version, when you take damage 30% of that damage disappears and doesn't even land. That's even better than the previous version because now you don't even take the damage in the first place.

    Adrenalin is a kind of skill-based resistance which has a strength between zero and 30% depending on how the player plays. If you actually have regeneration, since regeneration burns Adrenalin you will tend to get less than a champion without regeneration.

    Adrenalin probably exists because of two of its properties. One is that it is skill-based, adding more gameplay features to combat. And the second is that it is a kind of non-stackable resistance. An example would be simpler than the mathematical description. Imagine two champions, both with 50% resistance to physical damage. When they are hit with a 1000 point physical attack both take 500 points of damage. Now imagine that the first champion gets Adrenalin and the second gets a different ability that just adds 30% physical resistance. Now if we hit both with 1000 point physical attacks in the first case the champion takes 500 points of damage. 150 points of that damage get converted to adrenalin and if the player manages to convert it all back into healing he will take a net 350 points of damage after everything happens. The second player will resist 80% of the attack and take 200 points of damage. Notice the second champion takes less. That's because resistance stacks on top of resistance, but Adrenalin doesn't stack with resistance, it acts independently. That makes Adrenalin much easier to tune the strength of when different champions have different levels of resistance.

    Why does regeneration burn Adrenalin? Probably because Kabam's developers are afraid of regeneration. All MMO developers are afraid of regeneration. And that's because, to put it in a mathy precise way, abilities like resistance and armor are proportional scale-invariant abilities. Regeneration is a linear non-scale invariant ability. To put it simply, in a game with resistance you can scale all the numbers up and down and you have the same game. Regeneration breaks when the game is scaled up or down in (for people not used to the math) in ways extremely difficult to balance for without resorting to math much more complex than you normally find in game development.

    Well thanks for the answer!I thought about it and saw the Dorky vid and you are right it's more like a skill based physical resistance and i think i like the adrenaline mechanic eventually!So sorry for my complaints and props to Kabam for what looks like a great idea!I would still like to see 6* adjusted so the progression is normal(I mean 6* rank2 equal to 5* rank4!!!),but anyway lets hope 6* will prove to be good for the game!
  • KpatrixKpatrix Posts: 1,055 ★★★
    Can you at least get rid of the recoil on Black Bolts L2 ? So many champs can do much more damage without taking any damage themselves while using specials and it makes no sense for BB to have to. While you are at it, make them all awakened sig level one on release, even if it means adjusting their sig power curves a bit. These are supposed to be the most powerful champs, but without being awakened most are trash. Nobody wants an unawakened juggs, I have a high sig one at 4/55 and besides being on defense i never use him. That's just one example, too many of these are like him, you could even give us 2 for 1 deals on our first spin to even out the odds a bit.
  • GreenElf21GreenElf21 Posts: 36
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Why did you guys decide to make adrenaline only 30% of the damage taken?

    Off the top of my head, I wouldn't be surprised if the 30% number was simply someone looking at the 5* SP3 mechanic which allows the player to either increase damage output or decrease damage taken by 10% or 20% and made the 6* champions capable of recovering up to 30% of the damage dealt not for any mathy reason but just because it seemed a reasonable starting point, and testing showed that number was not too high or too low.

    This part seemed more noteworthy to me:
    Adrenaline also does not interact with Masteries, Buffs, etc, so it is not affected by effects like Heal Block, but does interact with Regeneration. Any Health you Regenerate will consume Adrenaline.

    That does seem to imply that champions with healing will benefit much less from the 6* special mechanic. I'm not sure why that should be the case.
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    LilJoh wrote: »
    Everyone that has enough shards to get a 6 star character has worked really hard on difficult content to have the resources to get one. I feel like it would make sense to award these players with a definite chance to pull a decent champ. It wouldn’t take much other than removing champs that would be largely useless to pull without the ability to dupe in the foreseeable future
    Juggernaut
    Blackbolt
    King groot
    Kingpin
    It would be a real shame to pull any of these champs and anyone that is able to get a 6* champion by Jan 31st should be rewarded without the risk of being punished.

    And Rocket! I think only Kamala Khan is more hated...

    What's with the Rocket hate? He's not god tier but he's far from most hated.

    Venom's S2 can hit in the same ballpark as Rocket's at times, plus he has a bleed. More importantly, Venom can take more than 3 hits without dying. I fully agree that Venom needs some work; perhaps a buff steal could be interesting?

    Ultimately Rocket does not belong in the 6* initial offering. Nor does Karnak or Black Bolt.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,287 Guardian
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    Venom's S2 can hit in the same ballpark as Rocket's at times, plus he has a bleed. More importantly, Venom can take more than 3 hits without dying. I fully agree that Venom needs some work; perhaps a buff steal could be interesting?

    Venom has a 7% chance to proc a bleed with any attack, but Rocket has a 100% chance to land a bleed with SP2 and its a much stronger bleed (four or five times stronger I believe). It also armor breaks, and because Rocket has an escalating critical rating with every ten combo hits the odds of it landing a crit get very high very quickly. Venom's SP2 hits hard and might bleed, but Rocket's SP2 is in an entirely different league.
  • GOD_OF_WARS_91GOD_OF_WARS_91 Posts: 5
    edited January 2018
    GREAT @Kabam Miike !! B)
  • GreenElf21GreenElf21 Posts: 36
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    Venom's S2 can hit in the same ballpark as Rocket's at times, plus he has a bleed. More importantly, Venom can take more than 3 hits without dying. I fully agree that Venom needs some work; perhaps a buff steal could be interesting?

    Venom has a 7% chance to proc a bleed with any attack, but Rocket has a 100% chance to land a bleed with SP2 and its a much stronger bleed (four or five times stronger I believe). It also armor breaks, and because Rocket has an escalating critical rating with every ten combo hits the odds of it landing a crit get very high very quickly. Venom's SP2 hits hard and might bleed, but Rocket's SP2 is in an entirely different league.

    I absolutely agree Rocket's S2 hits harder than Venom's, but he's 100x more brittle, and just generally sucks as a character.

    MCU-wise he was great in the movies, but this model is really Derpy, which reduces him to essentially a **** character that dies easily.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,287 Guardian
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    Venom's S2 can hit in the same ballpark as Rocket's at times, plus he has a bleed. More importantly, Venom can take more than 3 hits without dying. I fully agree that Venom needs some work; perhaps a buff steal could be interesting?

    Venom has a 7% chance to proc a bleed with any attack, but Rocket has a 100% chance to land a bleed with SP2 and its a much stronger bleed (four or five times stronger I believe). It also armor breaks, and because Rocket has an escalating critical rating with every ten combo hits the odds of it landing a crit get very high very quickly. Venom's SP2 hits hard and might bleed, but Rocket's SP2 is in an entirely different league.

    I absolutely agree Rocket's S2 hits harder than Venom's, but he's 100x more brittle, and just generally sucks as a character.

    MCU-wise he was great in the movies, but this model is really Derpy, which reduces him to essentially a **** character that dies easily.

    There's a lot of content that, if you get hit, you die whether you are Rocket Raccoon or Venom and the goal is to end the fight as quickly as possible with as much damage as possible. In those situations, Rocket is better. I've heard of people running LoL with Rocket. I haven't heard of anyone running LoL with Venom. Rocket is also a better option than Venom in many parts of Act 5, for example in content with life transfer.

    I think you are overestimating the resiliency difference and underestimating the damage difference. Let's look at the numbers. Because my 4* versions are at different ranks and sig levels I'm going to compare the 3* versions (both max rank and sig), although the differences should hold at 4* and 5*. Rocket has 63% of the health of Venom with my current mastery setup: 4208 to 6683. Conversely, Rocket has 13% more attack: 637 to 564. That might *seem* to give the relative edge to Venom, but that ignores criticals which are Rocket's forte. Venom has a base critical rating of 13.1% (302) and a critical damage rating of 144% (463). Rocket has a base critical rating of 29.4% (832) and a critical damage rating of 211.5% (954). Out of the gate Rocket crits twice as often and harder. And every ten combos Rocket's critical rating increases by 1481 (at this rank and sig) which means after ten combo hits Rocket's critical chance increases to 53.6%, and after twenty combo hits it increases to 65.5% (at DR100). In very loose estimate terms, Venom's critical damage adds about 18% more damage to Venom while Rocket's critical damage adds about 62% more damage initially and 113% damage after ten combo hits.

    Venom can increase damage output with his genetic buffs, but only less quickly and at generally lower values, and the buffs happen randomly. Venom is unlikely to come remotely close to Rocket's damage output most of the time. My rough estimate is that while Rocket has only 63% of the health of Venom, Rocket will on average be dealing about twice the damage of Venom in any fight that lasts more than twenty hits. And I think the other factors I haven't counted would tend to lean towards Rocket: I haven't counted Venom's buff replication, but I also haven't counted Rocket's armor break.

    If you are looking for survivability, Rocket definitely sucks. But if you are looking for offensive output, Rocket and Venom are not on the same playing field. They aren't even in the same zip code, and not really even playing the same sport.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,082 ★★★★★
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Why did you guys decide to make adrenaline only 30% of the damage taken?

    Off the top of my head, I wouldn't be surprised if the 30% number was simply someone looking at the 5* SP3 mechanic which allows the player to either increase damage output or decrease damage taken by 10% or 20% and made the 6* champions capable of recovering up to 30% of the damage dealt not for any mathy reason but just because it seemed a reasonable starting point, and testing showed that number was not too high or too low.

    This part seemed more noteworthy to me:
    Adrenaline also does not interact with Masteries, Buffs, etc, so it is not affected by effects like Heal Block, but does interact with Regeneration. Any Health you Regenerate will consume Adrenaline.

    That does seem to imply that champions with healing will benefit much less from the 6* special mechanic. I'm not sure why that should be the case.
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    LilJoh wrote: »
    Everyone that has enough shards to get a 6 star character has worked really hard on difficult content to have the resources to get one. I feel like it would make sense to award these players with a definite chance to pull a decent champ. It wouldn’t take much other than removing champs that would be largely useless to pull without the ability to dupe in the foreseeable future
    Juggernaut
    Blackbolt
    King groot
    Kingpin
    It would be a real shame to pull any of these champs and anyone that is able to get a 6* champion by Jan 31st should be rewarded without the risk of being punished.

    And Rocket! I think only Kamala Khan is more hated...

    What's with the Rocket hate? He's not god tier but he's far from most hated.

    Venom's S2 can hit in the same ballpark as Rocket's at times, plus he has a bleed. More importantly, Venom can take more than 3 hits without dying. I fully agree that Venom needs some work; perhaps a buff steal could be interesting?

    Ultimately Rocket does not belong in the 6* initial offering. Nor does Karnak or Black Bolt.
    In terms of L2 Damage, Venom is not comparable to Rocket. Further to that, Rocket is one of the few Champs that was relatively unchanged by 12.0, and as far as Damage goes, he's pretty strong. He's squishy, but he's a little slugger. Venom isn't as strong with L2's and L3's.
  • AcanthusAcanthus Posts: 447 ★★★
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Why did you guys decide to make adrenaline only 30% of the damage taken?

    Off the top of my head, I wouldn't be surprised if the 30% number was simply someone looking at the 5* SP3 mechanic which allows the player to either increase damage output or decrease damage taken by 10% or 20% and made the 6* champions capable of recovering up to 30% of the damage dealt not for any mathy reason but just because it seemed a reasonable starting point, and testing showed that number was not too high or too low.

    This part seemed more noteworthy to me:
    Adrenaline also does not interact with Masteries, Buffs, etc, so it is not affected by effects like Heal Block, but does interact with Regeneration. Any Health you Regenerate will consume Adrenaline.

    That does seem to imply that champions with healing will benefit much less from the 6* special mechanic. I'm not sure why that should be the case.
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    LilJoh wrote: »
    Everyone that has enough shards to get a 6 star character has worked really hard on difficult content to have the resources to get one. I feel like it would make sense to award these players with a definite chance to pull a decent champ. It wouldn’t take much other than removing champs that would be largely useless to pull without the ability to dupe in the foreseeable future
    Juggernaut
    Blackbolt
    King groot
    Kingpin
    It would be a real shame to pull any of these champs and anyone that is able to get a 6* champion by Jan 31st should be rewarded without the risk of being punished.

    And Rocket! I think only Kamala Khan is more hated...

    What's with the Rocket hate? He's not god tier but he's far from most hated.

    Venom's S2 can hit in the same ballpark as Rocket's at times, plus he has a bleed. More importantly, Venom can take more than 3 hits without dying. I fully agree that Venom needs some work; perhaps a buff steal could be interesting?

    Ultimately Rocket does not belong in the 6* initial offering. Nor does Karnak or Black Bolt.
    In terms of L2 Damage, Venom is not comparable to Rocket. Further to that, Rocket is one of the few Champs that was relatively unchanged by 12.0, and as far as Damage goes, he's pretty strong. He's squishy, but he's a little slugger. Venom isn't as strong with L2's and L3's.

    That's false, rocket got dumpstered by diminishing returns in 12.0. He would crit on all hits after a combo of 25+ pre 12.0. Now you get plenty of non-crits no matter the combo.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,082 ★★★★★
    Acanthus wrote: »
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Why did you guys decide to make adrenaline only 30% of the damage taken?

    Off the top of my head, I wouldn't be surprised if the 30% number was simply someone looking at the 5* SP3 mechanic which allows the player to either increase damage output or decrease damage taken by 10% or 20% and made the 6* champions capable of recovering up to 30% of the damage dealt not for any mathy reason but just because it seemed a reasonable starting point, and testing showed that number was not too high or too low.

    This part seemed more noteworthy to me:
    Adrenaline also does not interact with Masteries, Buffs, etc, so it is not affected by effects like Heal Block, but does interact with Regeneration. Any Health you Regenerate will consume Adrenaline.

    That does seem to imply that champions with healing will benefit much less from the 6* special mechanic. I'm not sure why that should be the case.
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    LilJoh wrote: »
    Everyone that has enough shards to get a 6 star character has worked really hard on difficult content to have the resources to get one. I feel like it would make sense to award these players with a definite chance to pull a decent champ. It wouldn’t take much other than removing champs that would be largely useless to pull without the ability to dupe in the foreseeable future
    Juggernaut
    Blackbolt
    King groot
    Kingpin
    It would be a real shame to pull any of these champs and anyone that is able to get a 6* champion by Jan 31st should be rewarded without the risk of being punished.

    And Rocket! I think only Kamala Khan is more hated...

    What's with the Rocket hate? He's not god tier but he's far from most hated.

    Venom's S2 can hit in the same ballpark as Rocket's at times, plus he has a bleed. More importantly, Venom can take more than 3 hits without dying. I fully agree that Venom needs some work; perhaps a buff steal could be interesting?

    Ultimately Rocket does not belong in the 6* initial offering. Nor does Karnak or Black Bolt.
    In terms of L2 Damage, Venom is not comparable to Rocket. Further to that, Rocket is one of the few Champs that was relatively unchanged by 12.0, and as far as Damage goes, he's pretty strong. He's squishy, but he's a little slugger. Venom isn't as strong with L2's and L3's.

    That's false, rocket got dumpstered by diminishing returns in 12.0. He would crit on all hits after a combo of 25+ pre 12.0. Now you get plenty of non-crits no matter the combo.

    DR affects all Champs. The Sig was not affected. I said relatively. Rocket wasn't dumpstered. I've been using him for some time now.
  • AcanthusAcanthus Posts: 447 ★★★
    edited January 2018
    Acanthus wrote: »
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Why did you guys decide to make adrenaline only 30% of the damage taken?

    Off the top of my head, I wouldn't be surprised if the 30% number was simply someone looking at the 5* SP3 mechanic which allows the player to either increase damage output or decrease damage taken by 10% or 20% and made the 6* champions capable of recovering up to 30% of the damage dealt not for any mathy reason but just because it seemed a reasonable starting point, and testing showed that number was not too high or too low.

    This part seemed more noteworthy to me:
    Adrenaline also does not interact with Masteries, Buffs, etc, so it is not affected by effects like Heal Block, but does interact with Regeneration. Any Health you Regenerate will consume Adrenaline.

    That does seem to imply that champions with healing will benefit much less from the 6* special mechanic. I'm not sure why that should be the case.
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    LilJoh wrote: »
    Everyone that has enough shards to get a 6 star character has worked really hard on difficult content to have the resources to get one. I feel like it would make sense to award these players with a definite chance to pull a decent champ. It wouldn’t take much other than removing champs that would be largely useless to pull without the ability to dupe in the foreseeable future
    Juggernaut
    Blackbolt
    King groot
    Kingpin
    It would be a real shame to pull any of these champs and anyone that is able to get a 6* champion by Jan 31st should be rewarded without the risk of being punished.

    And Rocket! I think only Kamala Khan is more hated...

    What's with the Rocket hate? He's not god tier but he's far from most hated.

    Venom's S2 can hit in the same ballpark as Rocket's at times, plus he has a bleed. More importantly, Venom can take more than 3 hits without dying. I fully agree that Venom needs some work; perhaps a buff steal could be interesting?

    Ultimately Rocket does not belong in the 6* initial offering. Nor does Karnak or Black Bolt.
    In terms of L2 Damage, Venom is not comparable to Rocket. Further to that, Rocket is one of the few Champs that was relatively unchanged by 12.0, and as far as Damage goes, he's pretty strong. He's squishy, but he's a little slugger. Venom isn't as strong with L2's and L3's.

    That's false, rocket got dumpstered by diminishing returns in 12.0. He would crit on all hits after a combo of 25+ pre 12.0. Now you get plenty of non-crits no matter the combo.

    DR affects all Champs. The Sig was not affected. I said relatively. Rocket wasn't dumpstered. I've been using him for some time now.

    It affects some champs more than others, case in point: rocket, cause he stacks so much critical rating. I'm glad you're using him. I've done a LoL path with him pre-12, and then tried him again post it. He was dumpstered, period
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,082 ★★★★★
    Acanthus wrote: »
    Acanthus wrote: »
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Why did you guys decide to make adrenaline only 30% of the damage taken?

    Off the top of my head, I wouldn't be surprised if the 30% number was simply someone looking at the 5* SP3 mechanic which allows the player to either increase damage output or decrease damage taken by 10% or 20% and made the 6* champions capable of recovering up to 30% of the damage dealt not for any mathy reason but just because it seemed a reasonable starting point, and testing showed that number was not too high or too low.

    This part seemed more noteworthy to me:
    Adrenaline also does not interact with Masteries, Buffs, etc, so it is not affected by effects like Heal Block, but does interact with Regeneration. Any Health you Regenerate will consume Adrenaline.

    That does seem to imply that champions with healing will benefit much less from the 6* special mechanic. I'm not sure why that should be the case.
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    LilJoh wrote: »
    Everyone that has enough shards to get a 6 star character has worked really hard on difficult content to have the resources to get one. I feel like it would make sense to award these players with a definite chance to pull a decent champ. It wouldn’t take much other than removing champs that would be largely useless to pull without the ability to dupe in the foreseeable future
    Juggernaut
    Blackbolt
    King groot
    Kingpin
    It would be a real shame to pull any of these champs and anyone that is able to get a 6* champion by Jan 31st should be rewarded without the risk of being punished.

    And Rocket! I think only Kamala Khan is more hated...

    What's with the Rocket hate? He's not god tier but he's far from most hated.

    Venom's S2 can hit in the same ballpark as Rocket's at times, plus he has a bleed. More importantly, Venom can take more than 3 hits without dying. I fully agree that Venom needs some work; perhaps a buff steal could be interesting?

    Ultimately Rocket does not belong in the 6* initial offering. Nor does Karnak or Black Bolt.
    In terms of L2 Damage, Venom is not comparable to Rocket. Further to that, Rocket is one of the few Champs that was relatively unchanged by 12.0, and as far as Damage goes, he's pretty strong. He's squishy, but he's a little slugger. Venom isn't as strong with L2's and L3's.

    That's false, rocket got dumpstered by diminishing returns in 12.0. He would crit on all hits after a combo of 25+ pre 12.0. Now you get plenty of non-crits no matter the combo.

    DR affects all Champs. The Sig was not affected. I said relatively. Rocket wasn't dumpstered. I've been using him for some time now.

    It affects some champs more than others, case in point: rocket, cause he stacks so much critical rating. I'm glad you're using him. I've done a LoL path with him pre-12, and then tried him again post it. He was dumpstered, period

    We will have to agree to disagree. He wasn't "dumpstered". He's still viable.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,287 Guardian
    Acanthus wrote: »
    Acanthus wrote: »
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Why did you guys decide to make adrenaline only 30% of the damage taken?

    Off the top of my head, I wouldn't be surprised if the 30% number was simply someone looking at the 5* SP3 mechanic which allows the player to either increase damage output or decrease damage taken by 10% or 20% and made the 6* champions capable of recovering up to 30% of the damage dealt not for any mathy reason but just because it seemed a reasonable starting point, and testing showed that number was not too high or too low.

    This part seemed more noteworthy to me:
    Adrenaline also does not interact with Masteries, Buffs, etc, so it is not affected by effects like Heal Block, but does interact with Regeneration. Any Health you Regenerate will consume Adrenaline.

    That does seem to imply that champions with healing will benefit much less from the 6* special mechanic. I'm not sure why that should be the case.
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    LilJoh wrote: »
    Everyone that has enough shards to get a 6 star character has worked really hard on difficult content to have the resources to get one. I feel like it would make sense to award these players with a definite chance to pull a decent champ. It wouldn’t take much other than removing champs that would be largely useless to pull without the ability to dupe in the foreseeable future
    Juggernaut
    Blackbolt
    King groot
    Kingpin
    It would be a real shame to pull any of these champs and anyone that is able to get a 6* champion by Jan 31st should be rewarded without the risk of being punished.

    And Rocket! I think only Kamala Khan is more hated...

    What's with the Rocket hate? He's not god tier but he's far from most hated.

    Venom's S2 can hit in the same ballpark as Rocket's at times, plus he has a bleed. More importantly, Venom can take more than 3 hits without dying. I fully agree that Venom needs some work; perhaps a buff steal could be interesting?

    Ultimately Rocket does not belong in the 6* initial offering. Nor does Karnak or Black Bolt.
    In terms of L2 Damage, Venom is not comparable to Rocket. Further to that, Rocket is one of the few Champs that was relatively unchanged by 12.0, and as far as Damage goes, he's pretty strong. He's squishy, but he's a little slugger. Venom isn't as strong with L2's and L3's.

    That's false, rocket got dumpstered by diminishing returns in 12.0. He would crit on all hits after a combo of 25+ pre 12.0. Now you get plenty of non-crits no matter the combo.

    DR affects all Champs. The Sig was not affected. I said relatively. Rocket wasn't dumpstered. I've been using him for some time now.

    It affects some champs more than others, case in point: rocket, cause he stacks so much critical rating. I'm glad you're using him. I've done a LoL path with him pre-12, and then tried him again post it. He was dumpstered, period

    I can't address your personal experience using him in LoL, but I can say that in 12.0+ his critical rating rises quickly to the 70% level and slowly levels off. The difference between 70%+ critical chance (72% at 30 combo, 77% at 40 combo) and 100% critical chance seems to be numerically insufficient to turn a good offensive champion into one that is "dumpstered."
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,287 Guardian
    Acanthus wrote: »
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Why did you guys decide to make adrenaline only 30% of the damage taken?

    Off the top of my head, I wouldn't be surprised if the 30% number was simply someone looking at the 5* SP3 mechanic which allows the player to either increase damage output or decrease damage taken by 10% or 20% and made the 6* champions capable of recovering up to 30% of the damage dealt not for any mathy reason but just because it seemed a reasonable starting point, and testing showed that number was not too high or too low.

    This part seemed more noteworthy to me:
    Adrenaline also does not interact with Masteries, Buffs, etc, so it is not affected by effects like Heal Block, but does interact with Regeneration. Any Health you Regenerate will consume Adrenaline.

    That does seem to imply that champions with healing will benefit much less from the 6* special mechanic. I'm not sure why that should be the case.
    GreenElf21 wrote: »
    LilJoh wrote: »
    Everyone that has enough shards to get a 6 star character has worked really hard on difficult content to have the resources to get one. I feel like it would make sense to award these players with a definite chance to pull a decent champ. It wouldn’t take much other than removing champs that would be largely useless to pull without the ability to dupe in the foreseeable future
    Juggernaut
    Blackbolt
    King groot
    Kingpin
    It would be a real shame to pull any of these champs and anyone that is able to get a 6* champion by Jan 31st should be rewarded without the risk of being punished.

    And Rocket! I think only Kamala Khan is more hated...

    What's with the Rocket hate? He's not god tier but he's far from most hated.

    Venom's S2 can hit in the same ballpark as Rocket's at times, plus he has a bleed. More importantly, Venom can take more than 3 hits without dying. I fully agree that Venom needs some work; perhaps a buff steal could be interesting?

    Ultimately Rocket does not belong in the 6* initial offering. Nor does Karnak or Black Bolt.
    In terms of L2 Damage, Venom is not comparable to Rocket. Further to that, Rocket is one of the few Champs that was relatively unchanged by 12.0, and as far as Damage goes, he's pretty strong. He's squishy, but he's a little slugger. Venom isn't as strong with L2's and L3's.

    That's false, rocket got dumpstered by diminishing returns in 12.0. He would crit on all hits after a combo of 25+ pre 12.0. Now you get plenty of non-crits no matter the combo.

    DR affects all Champs. The Sig was not affected. I said relatively. Rocket wasn't dumpstered. I've been using him for some time now.

    Actually, Rocket's signature ability was affected by DR, because Rocket's signature ability originally increased critical rating which is now affected by DR. Rocket originally stacked ~35% increased critical chance per 10 combo, he now stacks ~1500 critical rating as a flat stat, which levels off rapidly around the 70%-ish mark.
  • RapRap Posts: 3,186 ★★★★
    Everyone will be added eventually. These same questions are echoes of the past. Same questions when the 5s were introduced. Having dejavu! History is repeating again. This time the hype is around adrenaline 5s it was the mini game bar at the bottom...repetitions...wait and the better champs will come and a handful will have the newest and best for a while longer than before because they will only be in featured and arenas for a long time.
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