Class and Rarity Gates - Discussion Thread

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  • GmonkeyGmonkey Posts: 424
    My roster is ok for the content I am a little short on the skill champs but am ranking them up. Several people with close to a million hero rating in my alliance have little to no chance because of bad Rng for 6 star or specific class. They can clear all other content but not this due to RNG that sucks and is very demotivating especially after this disaster of a month.
  • StellarStellar Posts: 96
    Sixshot1 said:

    I've completed every Uncollected event quest since it came out, except the first. I'm cavalier. I still don't have a single 6* that will be viable in this level of content. And I need to bring 4 to finish exploring it? This is getting absurd. It's not fun or challenging content. To the MCOC developers, are you just that out of touch, or do you just not care what nearly your entire player base has to say?

    The 4 6 stars are needed only for one path so you can do all the other paths with your 5 stars ;)

    But yes this chapter will be harder for payer that don't have a large roster of 5 stars rank 4 available
  • PaytoPlayPaytoPlay Posts: 763 ★★★
    edited May 15
    If I have a 6* version of the champ must I still use the 5* version for the content? In another word, is it 5* or above, or 5* ONLY? From the wording sounds like I can only use an undupe 5* OR even if I have a duped 6* at r2, from the restriction gate perspective.

    If I already have 6* version of the preferred champs, why would I still want to rank 5* version justcto enter a gate ?
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 51
    I think what you all are missing is that even whales don't have the rosters to properly compete with 6 starts. I'm in the top 3k in total player rating and I only have 7 6 stars due to 3 dups that I certainly didn't want. Kabam keeps pushing their luck. Why don't you allow the developers to do their job and find ways to create harder content without 6 star restrictions?
  • Fuzzy_Fuzzy_ Posts: 12
    I think this announcement should be only half of the changes for 6.2.
    1. Just like how Act 5 introduced many of us to 6* champs, but also relaxed the funnel of t4cc and t4b.
    2. And just like how 6.1 was accompanied by upgrades to glory store pricing to make t5b and t2a funnels more relaxed.

    For these previous examples, 6.2 should have another side to it in other game modes which allow us to get to four r4 5* in each class. Yes, it'll have to take hard work, and competitive play in various other game modes, but this new challenge should be made obtainable by new relaxing of current funnel points of the game.

    Please Kabam: make another announcement of some new way to work to acquire more rankup resources and class-specific champs soon to piggyback on this new daunting challenge.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 18,462 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Very conservatively, that's over 4000 units in a month.

    Which is actually nothing.

    Spending your entire unit net worth each month on 20 cav crystals to maybe get 2 arena fodder 5 stars is hardly worth getting excited about.

    You're right on most things and you're smart than I am, but you're very wrong on this. "Good access" to 5s and 6s through the cav crystal is wrong on so many levels even if you run this game like a full time job and have a giant roster capable of said grinds and you don't do war or any content.

    Trust me, I've seen it all. I'm in masters, place very high in AQ, so I know what people spend. Having the cavalier title doesn't give us better access to 5s and 6s unless we spend and spend a lot. This game is more pay2win more than ever and getting worse and worse.
    The Cavalier Crystals are not the only access to 6*s and 5*s that we have. Overall, they've become more available than when they were introduced. This is not only some random statement. They have the data to back up that claim. They're not widely available for everyone in the game, but neither is this content.
    We're being told that we have more access to 5*s and 6*s after being cavalier. True technically but a dishonest statement in practice unless we spend. All the grinding in the world for cavalier crystals won't put a dent in our progression.
    That depends on the RNG. It's not necessary to spend thousands. As DNA pointed out, Grinding provides Units to try. Also worth pointing out that those who are Cavalier have access to 5*s and 6*s in other areas of the game, naturally through UC.
    That's exactly my point. It's depends on RNG and the odds are bad. The math says spending 4000 grinded units a month gets us 20 cav crystals or 240 crystals a year. If you're grinding 4000 units a month (if you have a huge roster and all the time in the world in first ) it could get you 24 5*s and 2.4 6*s. Also known as trash.

    You guys call this good access to 5s and 6s?
    Within the game, yes. It's the only Crystal that gives 6*s, and the best rates at 5*s, purchasable for Units.
    The bottom line, which also came up with 6.1, is that not everyone will have what they need when it is released. That's as it should be. It's something to work towards for some, and others may be there already. I'm not sure where along the lines people grew the expectation to have everything you need when a new piece of Top Tier Content comes out, but there wouldn't be any growth if that was the case. Nor would it be a challenge significant enough to be a step up.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,580 Guardian
    Mixalis said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Miike Can you also answer us how 5* and 6* shards became more accessible after 6.1. went out ? other than spending tons of money on cavalier crystals and other cash offers ?

    I have never spend a single cent of actual cash on a Cavalier crystal. You buy Cavalier crystals with units, not cash, in general. Therefore, they are available even to free to play players that spend zero cash, and just grind units in the game. And it is possible to grind dozens of Cavalier crystals every month through arena grinding. Cavalier crystals are probably one of the best things a free to play player that grinds units can spend those units on, once they've reached Cavalier status.
    yes...grind arena 12 hours a day to get 1 million battlechips in month to get 1k units, buy 5 cavalier crystals get 4x 3* and 1x 4*...not happy ? farm again...makes sense..
    Those numbers make no sense. I consider myself a pretty heavy grinder and I only grind maybe three hours a day on average. I don't expect everyone to do even that, but I average about 350 BC per round and 20-25 rounds per hour depending on what else I'm doing at the time. The average is about 7800 BC per hour, 23400 per day, 163800 per week. Call that 650k per month just from BC per round, add in BC from other random sources and you're probably at 700k per month at least. The average units from a million BC is in my experience closer to 2k than 1k units; conservatively I'd say the average is at least 1800 units. Which means 700k should generate about 1260 units per month.

    But that doesn't count units from milestones, which any arena grinder will also get. Different players will grind different arenas, but for me I get at least all the milestones in the 5* featured, plus milestones in other arenas. On average, I get at least 300-400 units from milestones per event, which on average is 350 units x 8 events per month = 2800 units.

    This doesn't count units from other parts of the game, the calendar, the monthly quest, alliance events, all of which add up to at least 500-1000 units a month.

    Very conservatively, that's over 4000 units in a month. Even if you take the strategy of spending half your units on Cavs and saving half for future offers, that's ten standard Cavs a month, which will average another 5* champion per month at least. And while this is above average gameplay numbers, it isn't remotely ridiculous levels of gameplay. When I ran Act 6.1 I stopped at 6.1.5 to grind out the 12k units necessary for the completion offer. It took me less than two months to do that starting from about 1k units. And even *that* wasn't twelve hours a day grinding. I upped my gameplay to four to five hours a day and a little more on weekends.

    The point is not for everyone to play like me. The point is that this opportunity is open to anyone who can devote some extra time to the game, just at different levels. If you don't think it is worth it, don't do it. But don't say it doesn't exist just because you don't like it or frankly don't understand it and have to make up hyperbolic numbers to justify your not liking it.
    You're still not likely to pull a 6* champion. Seatin spent thousands of $$$ and only pulled one 6* champion. This has nothing to do with the amount of units you can grind in a time frame.
    I didn't say I was likely to pull a 6* champion from these crystals on short time scales. Nor is this necessary for me to continue to do it, and continue to make progress in the game. More directly, this point is not relevant to the post I was replying to.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 18,462 ★★★★★
    Think back to how long it took us to build up to things like Kang, Thanos, Maestro, etc. I highly doubt that people picked up the game and plowed through it. It took time to build Rosters, learn things, Rank Champs, etc. This is permanent content, and it's the highest to date. It's entirely reasonable that it's going to take some time to build up to it for some, I'd even say most, people.
  • RotellyRotelly Posts: 283 ★★
    For the Class specific gates, will 6* champs count towards the minimum required or only 5*
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 18,462 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Very conservatively, that's over 4000 units in a month.

    Which is actually nothing.

    Spending your entire unit net worth each month on 20 cav crystals to maybe get 2 arena fodder 5 stars is hardly worth getting excited about.

    You're right on most things and you're smart than I am, but you're very wrong on this. "Good access" to 5s and 6s through the cav crystal is wrong on so many levels even if you run this game like a full time job and have a giant roster capable of said grinds and you don't do war or any content.

    Trust me, I've seen it all. I'm in masters, place very high in AQ, so I know what people spend. Having the cavalier title doesn't give us better access to 5s and 6s unless we spend and spend a lot. This game is more pay2win more than ever and getting worse and worse.
    The Cavalier Crystals are not the only access to 6*s and 5*s that we have. Overall, they've become more available than when they were introduced. This is not only some random statement. They have the data to back up that claim. They're not widely available for everyone in the game, but neither is this content.
    We're being told that we have more access to 5*s and 6*s after being cavalier. True technically but a dishonest statement in practice unless we spend. All the grinding in the world for cavalier crystals won't put a dent in our progression.
    That depends on the RNG. It's not necessary to spend thousands. As DNA pointed out, Grinding provides Units to try. Also worth pointing out that those who are Cavalier have access to 5*s and 6*s in other areas of the game, naturally through UC.
    That's exactly my point. It's depends on RNG and the odds are bad. The math says spending 4000 grinded units a month gets us 20 cav crystals or 240 crystals a year. If you're grinding 4000 units a month (if you have a huge roster and all the time in the world in first ) it could get you 24 5*s and 2.4 6*s. Also known as trash.

    You guys call this good access to 5s and 6s?
    Within the game, yes. It's the only Crystal that gives 6*s, and the best rates at 5*s, purchasable for Units.
    The bottom line, which also came up with 6.1, is that not everyone will have what they need when it is released. That's as it should be. It's something to work towards for some, and others may be there already. I'm not sure where along the lines people grew the expectation to have everything you need when a new piece of Top Tier Content comes out, but there wouldn't be any growth if that was the case. Nor would it be a challenge significant enough to be a step up.
    How exactly do we work for these precious 6*s???
    We barley get content that guarantees them consistently, the only way to ensure that we get them on a weekly to monthly basis is through cavalier crystals since they are available for 200 units a pop. And units are available through MONEY, the one thing kabam only cares about, or hours of arena. Yet remember that units are the only way to get revives and energy refills guaranteed with no rng
    By the time someone gets to the Cavalier point, they're most definitely Uncollected. There's the EQ that provides a monthly source of Shards. There are also 5* Dups that yield them, War Seasons, Offers, and yes, Cavalier Crystals. Which don't require spending actual money. There will also be more ways to acquire Shards in the future. Not an official comment, but I have a pretty good inkling. It's not going to happen overnight for some people. That's the same as anything else in the game that requires time and effort. Somehow it's a travesty if they release new content that people can't plow through on Day 1.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,580 Guardian

    DNA3000 said:

    Very conservatively, that's over 4000 units in a month.

    Which is actually nothing.

    Spending your entire unit net worth each month on 20 cav crystals to maybe get 2 arena fodder 5 stars is hardly worth getting excited about.

    You're right on most things and you're smart than I am, but you're very wrong on this. "Good access" to 5s and 6s through the cav crystal is wrong on so many levels even if you run this game like a full time job and have a giant roster capable of said grinds and you don't do war or any content.

    Trust me, I've seen it all. I'm in masters, place very high in AQ, so I know what people spend. Having the cavalier title doesn't give us better access to 5s and 6s unless we spend and spend a lot. This game is more pay2win more than ever and getting worse and worse.
    And yet, I don't get masters rewards, don't spend in general on crystals, don't attempt to pay to win, don't play the game like a second job, and still continue to progress in this game just fine. And my luck with crystal pulls is average at best. What I am I doing that everyone else you've ever seen doesn't do?

    I'm not sure how to argue against someone telling me something is impossible, that I am literally actually doing. That would seem to be absolute proof by counter-example, but it is so obvious I'm not sure how to prove something that is actually happening now is possible.

    Part of the problem, I suspect, is that I don't pay to win because I'm making no attempt to "win." I don't even know what winning in this game means. I only play it, progress as best I can, and constantly try to get better as a player and stronger in my overall roster. I know getting better is the only thing you can do in this kind of game, because there's no end aside from shutdown. There's only progress, measured by your own standard of progress.

    If someone is paying to win, I'm curious to know what they won that I lost. You can pay to win a war, but that's not a war I likely lost. You can pay to strengthen your roster enough to join a top alliance, but that's a reward I have no interest in obtaining. I'm only interested in building my roster, improving my skills, and tackling the content. And that is objectively easier to do now than in the past, and getting easier as time passes. That's objectively true. The fact that it isn't enough for some people doesn't make it less true, it just makes their expectations higher than the game currently wants to provide. That's true for every game: however fast the game hands out rewards, it will be too slow for some players, and too fast for others. Some will get frustrated and quit, some will get bored and quit. You can only address one group by making things worse for the other.
  • iFilipowicziFilipowicz Posts: 11


    I believe he meant that under the premise that Cavalier Crystals is what you're after.

    His comment/statement was pretty clear to me:
    "Cavalier crystals are probably one of the best things a free to play player that grinds units can spend those units on"
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 18,462 ★★★★★


    I believe he meant that under the premise that Cavalier Crystals is what you're after.

    His comment/statement was pretty clear to me:
    "Cavalier crystals are probably one of the best things a free to play player that grinds units can spend those units on"
    Ok. Fair enough. I was just pointing out that the subject discussed was buying them.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 18,462 ★★★★★
    I suppose the best way is subjective and depends on what someone needs. In terms of Champ acquisition, it's deifinitely the fastest option.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,580 Guardian

    But the next chapter of the story should be a gimme. A way to work on your skill (not RNG luck) to read the next "issue of the comic". Instead Act 6.1 and 6.2 are proving they are separating whales from free-to-play and mid-tier players. It's a "have" and "have not" approach to gaming. Very sad to see Kabam go that way. Several MMOs have, and always eventually to their own downfall.

    I have played, and frankly analyzed, a lot of MMOs. I believe the exact opposite is true here. I guess we'll just have to see. I do know this: people have been saying this for as long as I've been on the forums. I cannot say for certain you're wrong, but I can say you represent a position that has so far been historically wrong. One day the game will end: most do. Someone who harkens the end of the game will happen be right. But given how many times such people were wrong, they'd just be taking credit for a coincidence at this point.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 18,462 ★★★★★
    Kaspy said:

    Think back to how long it took us to build up to things like Kang, Thanos, Maestro, etc. I highly doubt that people picked up the game and plowed through it. It took time to build Rosters, learn things, Rank Champs, etc. This is permanent content, and it's the highest to date. It's entirely reasonable that it's going to take some time to build up to it for some, I'd even say most, people.

    Building up for those fights was SOOO different because you could work with the champs you pulled. This problem with these gates is you can’t simply work with the champs you pull so it becomes RNG dependent. Building up to fight Thanos and Maestro we’re far from that. Poor comparison on your part
    It was to make the point that we were once not equipped or prepared, then became so after time and effort.
    With the current Meta, it's the best option at the moment to create another step up. You have to consider the plateau of Rarities. What I mean by that is, people have R5 5*s, many of which are strong, and R2 6*s. Adding a significant enough challenge has to go in line with growth because of the ceiling for Rarities. You introduce R3 6*s too soon, and the entire Meta of the game shifts. You make it into a LOL-type Quest, and it's no longer in line with Story. You have to pace all growth within some type of balance over time.
  • Doomsfist79Doomsfist79 Posts: 271 ★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Miike Can you also answer us how 5* and 6* shards became more accessible after 6.1. went out ? other than spending tons of money on cavalier crystals and other cash offers ?

    I have never spend a single cent of actual cash on a Cavalier crystal. You buy Cavalier crystals with units, not cash, in general. Therefore, they are available even to free to play players that spend zero cash, and just grind units in the game. And it is possible to grind dozens of Cavalier crystals every month through arena grinding. Cavalier crystals are probably one of the best things a free to play player that grinds units can spend those units on, once they've reached Cavalier status.
    This is just a garbage argument. Spending units on crystals is the WORST use of units.
    Maybe.. but at least this way.. you don't hoard the units :)
  • PraiseKekPraiseKek Posts: 180
    Can’t say I’m surprised, they told us that they’d be doing this when 6.1 came out. That said, I’m disappointed that they didn’t listen to the community and reconsider their decision. On the positive side, not every path is gated so that’s a good thing and I’m thankful Kabam didn’t gate all of it. It’s not a good decision to hate by rarity or amount of one class, but at least completion is possible.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 5,419 ★★★★★
    MattMan said:

    These gates and decisions like these will be the death of this game

    They said that after 12.0 so....
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