Alliance Wars - Defense Tactics and Rewards Update Discussion Thread

Kaspy · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

TheTalents said:
If people don't care about War that is a Kabam problem @GroundedWisdom . They want us to play competitively to spend more units so if most people aren't willing to play it competitively that is a failure on their part. You can't even play Tier 1-5 because you neither have the skill or want to put the effort so Kabam has failed you. You're proving everyone's point.
I didn't say I don't have the skill. I have an Ally that's based on loyalty. We've been together for years. Had many opportunities to move up or leave. I'm loyal to my friends.
Kabam hasn't failed. People decided to protest War because it got harder without more Rewards. Now that there are more, it's still not enough. We make our own choices. No one is going to spoon feed us back if we decide to peace out of War.
Then you don’t have experience in high tier war which is where most the changes have occured
What's your point? I'm still here discussing it. I'm capable of looking at the entire system without playing at the top.
No you can have an opinion of it but without experience you don’t know how hard it really is
I didn't claim I did. What I see is redundant. "It's hard at the Top.". It's supposed to be. That's why it's the Top. If it's becoming harder and that's somehow surprising, that's possibly because it's been too easy. I said something when people spoke up against some of the Nodes, fair enough. However, it is supposed to be hard in general. People want a balancing factor that keeps Allies out of higher Tiers that shouldn't be there. That's what we have here.
“It’s hard at the top” rewards are also meant to be good at the top
Compare high plat 3 to low gold 1 I’d say plat 3 is about minimum twice as hard yet somehow there’s only 2k more 5* shards in plat 3
We're not going to get a 6* each War.

Thank you for stating the obvious

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola

When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

LeNoirFaineant said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
You do realize aq does the exact same thing people at the top get so much more
The trade-off is the level of difficulty. That's the balancing factor. Difference being, people have week after week of repetition with AQ to get accustomed to it. It becomes easier because it's the same thing over and over. War is a number of moving parts that require moment by moment attention once it's in Attack Phase. I'm not entirely sure why people keep referencing AQ, but War is not AQ. The only connection is you need Loyalty that's earned in War. Aside from that, they're not meant to be reflections of each other.
The connection to AQ is that you alleged that increasing the war rewards would widen the gap, and then it was pointed out that AQ is currently widening said gap. So it would seem that Kabam isn't all that concerned about this gap.

No. My point is there has to BE a balance with Rewards. They can't just add more willy nilly. It has to be in the perspective of a number of things. I had no argument about the gap between AQ and AW. Just the opposite. I said you can't expect them to amp up War just to compete with AQ. That's not what the systems are designed around. What we have is people choosing to focus on AQ more, and that's their choice. Can't expect them to add more Rewards just to bring people back to it. I'm all for balancing and improving systems. I'm not for adding Rewards just to satiate.

DrZola · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.

I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola

4Never · July 2019

V1PER1987 said:

Kabam Miike said:

Forward said:
With the introduction of these buffs based on champion tags we really need a way to filter them now more than ever.

Also unless win rewards are buffed greatly, they still seem pretty meh. Any word on victory crystals being updated?
We've let the team know that this is a desired feature in game. In the meantime, you should check out auntm.ai. It's a great tool created by a very talented member of the Community and features some Tag filtering tools.

The Win/Loss crystals have not been updated yet. That may be in a future rewards update.
I know this is going to sound very snarky and I apologize in advance, but it’s really not the community’s (mutamatt’s) job to create all these resources for the player. It’s your game and you should be providing prestige and tag filter functionality.

In addition to that, there was is a huge neglect of quality of life improvements to the game. I’ve been compiling a list for a while, not just about war.

One For example, after loading into your placed AW BG (attack/or spectate your attack phase), to view your alliance’s other bg’s attack you have to leave and go back to the AW main screen to spectate the others. For officers, monitoring AW they have to jump around additional screens all the time to view offense and defense. From any bg screen, there should be buttons to jump to anyone of the other 5 different screens.

Also when in AQ or AW why can’t I switch/slide chat and have access to the join button that is available like when I’m on the home screen or quest map?? No, instead I have to load to main then go, or load alliance screen then use the buttons there. I should be able to go straight (1 screen load) from AQ to AW, and back, etc.

To check arena milsestones for events , or like hero use, you have to leave arena , back to main screen to check, then go back to arena. Put a button on the arena screen so that we can check without having to leave:

It’s ridiculous how many two + screen loads you you have to make to simply get from one content area of the game to the other. Should be 1 screen load to most major content areas.

They have the large drop down menu at the top that is very under utilized.

Yes, should be in a different thread I know, but this triggered my frustration about their lack of UI and and information improvements across the board.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola

I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.

mostlyharmlessn · July 2019

Siliyo said:

Kabam Miike said:

SparkAlot said:
Yeah, if this is what Kabam thinks will win people over for AW, they aren't taking feedback seriously.

You get a whole 1 T4b for being in Silver 2 - Gold 1? What is up with that? 1? You can grind out 2 in T4b arena 12 times and get 24 T4b, so, it should be at least 5 T4b.

Oh well, another season don't have to play AW. Thanks Kabam!
This mode is in addition to all of the other modes people play, and does not replace the rewards you get from other Areas of the game. It does not have to be more than what you can earn in other areas.
Can you at least make season shorter to 3 weeks?

Or just get rid of seasons completely and buff per war rewards accordingly

DrZola · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.

Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola

mostlyharmlessn · July 2019

Bulwark: Metal Defenders are Immune to Armor Break Debuffs. Whenever a Metal Defender loses more than [X%] of their Max Health from a single strike, they gain an Indestructible Buff for [Y] seconds. This ability goes on cooldown when Indestructible Buff expires for [Z] seconds.

So basically you are turning this into IMIW/MODOK wars....

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola

The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.

4Never · July 2019

mostlyharmlessn said:
Bulwark: Metal Defenders are Immune to Armor Break Debuffs. Whenever a Metal Defender loses more than [X%] of their Max Health from a single strike, they gain an Indestructible Buff for [Y] seconds. This ability goes on cooldown when Indestructible Buff expires for [Z] seconds.

So basically you are turning this into IMIW/MODOK wars....

Haha, don’t rule out the evading and power gain S size champs. Domino, Medusa, Magik, Emma, Wasp, etc, just to name some of the more fun ones. Also all of the spider man /Gwen champs.

The complexity this brings now is crazy, especially for officers.
The difficulty for attackers is significantly increased. As if the item use wasn’t already high enough for most/some in my alliance. lol

DrZola · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.

Well, I don’t have the experience playing this content at T1, so I’m not comfortable telling a T1 player that the difficulty-rewards balance is sufficient. I will leave that to you.

But I can tell you as it stands right now it appears it may well suck the last scintilla of fun out of T3-4-5.

Dr. Zola

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
Well, I don’t have the experience playing this content at T1, so I’m not comfortable telling a T1 player that the difficulty-rewards balance is sufficient. I will leave that to you.

But I can tell you as it stands right now it appears it may well suck the last scintilla of fun out of T3-4-5.

Dr. Zola

You can be flagrantly wordy, but I can smell the same argument a mile away. I shouldn't talk because I'm not there. Is that the implication?
Not once did I say it was sufficient for what's required at that level. I disagreed with the suggestions put forth because they amounted to too much over time. I'm looking at the total over time, in relation to Reward flows within the whole system. The argument is subjective regardless. Ask me what my time and energy is worth, and I assure you I earn less.

Salsamander said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
The quality of thy replies filleth me with endless wonder.

That's about 2 years ago there, bud. That holds no power over me anymore.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

Salsamander said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
Well, I don’t have the experience playing this content at T1, so I’m not comfortable telling a T1 player that the difficulty-rewards balance is sufficient. I will leave that to you.

But I can tell you as it stands right now it appears it may well suck the last scintilla of fun out of T3-4-5.

Dr. Zola
You can be flagrantly wordy, but I can smell the same argument a mile away. I shouldn't talk because I'm not there. Is that the implication?
Not once did I say it was sufficient for what's required at that level. I disagreed with the suggestions put forth because they amounted to too much over time. I'm looking at the total over time, in relation to Reward flows within the whole system. The argument is subjective regardless. Ask me what my time and energy is worth, and I assure you I earn less.
Salsamander said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
The quality of thy replies filleth me with endless wonder.
That's about 2 years ago there, bud. That holds no power over me anymore.
Not from the looks of the profile.

If you would like to talk about the topic, I'm all ears. If you're just trying to expose me somehow, there's literally no secrets on here. As I said, been down that road. Not interested or bothered. Do you have anything to add to the discussion, or are you just trying to call me out?

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

Edit.

DrZola · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
Well, I don’t have the experience playing this content at T1, so I’m not comfortable telling a T1 player that the difficulty-rewards balance is sufficient. I will leave that to you.

But I can tell you as it stands right now it appears it may well suck the last scintilla of fun out of T3-4-5.

Dr. Zola
You can be flagrantly wordy, but I can smell the same argument a mile away. I shouldn't talk because I'm not there. Is that the implication?
Not once did I say it was sufficient for what's required at that level. I disagreed with the suggestions put forth because they amounted to too much over time. I'm looking at the total over time, in relation to Reward flows within the whole system. The argument is subjective regardless. Ask me what my time and energy is worth, and I assure you I earn less.
Salsamander said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
The quality of thy replies filleth me with endless wonder.
That's about 2 years ago there, bud. That holds no power over me anymore.

No implication—and I’m pretty sure I don’t take the title as the most flagrantly wordy guy on the forums.

I’m simply not comfortable telling higher ranked players how to play the game or that the game at their level is rewarded enough or difficult enough. I’ve got no insight on the inner workings of the game system, but I do have a decent sense of what the game feels like at my level and the levels nearby, and I think that qualifies me to comment on that. Offering insight into areas beyond my expertise would, for me, just be bloviating.

Dr. Zola

DrPepper_75 · July 2019

War rewards are not very good. All the effort for such little rewards. Got better rewards doing the epic Spider-Man ticket thing then we got in the monthly war doesn’t make sense.My alliance is just going to focus on quest more ROI.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
Well, I don’t have the experience playing this content at T1, so I’m not comfortable telling a T1 player that the difficulty-rewards balance is sufficient. I will leave that to you.

But I can tell you as it stands right now it appears it may well suck the last scintilla of fun out of T3-4-5.

Dr. Zola
You can be flagrantly wordy, but I can smell the same argument a mile away. I shouldn't talk because I'm not there. Is that the implication?
Not once did I say it was sufficient for what's required at that level. I disagreed with the suggestions put forth because they amounted to too much over time. I'm looking at the total over time, in relation to Reward flows within the whole system. The argument is subjective regardless. Ask me what my time and energy is worth, and I assure you I earn less.
Salsamander said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
The quality of thy replies filleth me with endless wonder.
That's about 2 years ago there, bud. That holds no power over me anymore.
No implication—and I’m pretty sure I don’t take the title as the most flagrantly wordy guy on the forums.

I’m simply not comfortable telling higher ranked players how to play the game or that the game at their level is rewarded enough or difficult enough. I’ve got no insight on the inner workings of the game system, but I do have a decent sense of what the game feels like at my level and the levels nearby, and I think that qualifies me to comment on that. Offering insight into areas beyond my expertise would, for me, just be bloviating.

Dr. Zola

If you can point out anywhere in this conversation I told people how to play the game, or that it is rewarded enough or difficult enough, I'll accept that statement. Otherwise, you're interjecting things I never said.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

Salsamander said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Yeah, sorry. Ideas and thoughts come from all sources. Just because someone isn't in Tier 1 doesn't mean they're incapable of understanding the complexity of the game and the balancing of Resources. Subsequently, it's possible people can play at the top their whole career and never see past their nose. This is not the first time someone has tried to use position in the game to disagree with my statements. Won't be the last. Incredibly easy to spot the personal ones. They don't even address my points, they just jump in with a dig. Prime example. So again, if you would like to discuss the topic and not where I'm at, I'm all ears. Otherwise, we're done.
The topic has been discussed by players playing at that level. While your opinion is highly valued by some folks at the office, it is irrelevant. It is easy to speculate and comment about the sport from the couch, quite different while actually playing it. Keep that post count high, atleast that is one goal that cannot be topped.

Sorry you feel that way, I'm going to continue with the discussion all the same.

DrZola · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
Well, I don’t have the experience playing this content at T1, so I’m not comfortable telling a T1 player that the difficulty-rewards balance is sufficient. I will leave that to you.

But I can tell you as it stands right now it appears it may well suck the last scintilla of fun out of T3-4-5.

Dr. Zola
You can be flagrantly wordy, but I can smell the same argument a mile away. I shouldn't talk because I'm not there. Is that the implication?
Not once did I say it was sufficient for what's required at that level. I disagreed with the suggestions put forth because they amounted to too much over time. I'm looking at the total over time, in relation to Reward flows within the whole system. The argument is subjective regardless. Ask me what my time and energy is worth, and I assure you I earn less.
Salsamander said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
The quality of thy replies filleth me with endless wonder.
That's about 2 years ago there, bud. That holds no power over me anymore.
No implication—and I’m pretty sure I don’t take the title as the most flagrantly wordy guy on the forums.

I’m simply not comfortable telling higher ranked players how to play the game or that the game at their level is rewarded enough or difficult enough. I’ve got no insight on the inner workings of the game system, but I do have a decent sense of what the game feels like at my level and the levels nearby, and I think that qualifies me to comment on that. Offering insight into areas beyond my expertise would, for me, just be bloviating.

Dr. Zola
If you can point out anywhere in this conversation I told people how to play the game, or that it is rewarded enough or difficult enough, I'll accept that statement. Otherwise, you're interjecting things I never said.

I think if you reread the comments made on page 12 of this thread, you can see how someone would conclude otherwise. Perhaps all the talk about balance and candy-trailing and difficult enough wasn’t meant that way, but that’s certainly how it comes across.

Dr. Zola

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
Well, I don’t have the experience playing this content at T1, so I’m not comfortable telling a T1 player that the difficulty-rewards balance is sufficient. I will leave that to you.

But I can tell you as it stands right now it appears it may well suck the last scintilla of fun out of T3-4-5.

Dr. Zola
You can be flagrantly wordy, but I can smell the same argument a mile away. I shouldn't talk because I'm not there. Is that the implication?
Not once did I say it was sufficient for what's required at that level. I disagreed with the suggestions put forth because they amounted to too much over time. I'm looking at the total over time, in relation to Reward flows within the whole system. The argument is subjective regardless. Ask me what my time and energy is worth, and I assure you I earn less.
Salsamander said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
The quality of thy replies filleth me with endless wonder.
That's about 2 years ago there, bud. That holds no power over me anymore.
No implication—and I’m pretty sure I don’t take the title as the most flagrantly wordy guy on the forums.

I’m simply not comfortable telling higher ranked players how to play the game or that the game at their level is rewarded enough or difficult enough. I’ve got no insight on the inner workings of the game system, but I do have a decent sense of what the game feels like at my level and the levels nearby, and I think that qualifies me to comment on that. Offering insight into areas beyond my expertise would, for me, just be bloviating.

Dr. Zola
If you can point out anywhere in this conversation I told people how to play the game, or that it is rewarded enough or difficult enough, I'll accept that statement. Otherwise, you're interjecting things I never said.
I think if you reread the comments made on page 12 of this thread, you can see how someone would conclude otherwise. Perhaps all the talk about balance and candy-trailing and difficult enough wasn’t meant that way, but that’s certainly how it comes across.

Dr. Zola

My comments are my comments. I'm not responsible for what people add to what they read. On the subject of expecting War to entice people back into playing it, absolutely. I agree with Rewards being scaled to the content they're in and balanced within the game among the various other systems. What I don't agree with is expecting the game team to add Rewards just to buy people back into War. That has nothing to do with the level of difficulty, or how to play. That has to do with a personal issue with War and expectations. If people decide they no longer want to run Wars competitively, we can't expect them to add more Rewards just to curve that. That's a Pandora's Box. That has very little to do with War and a great deal more to do with demands.

DrZola · July 2019

4Never said:

mostlyharmlessn said:
Bulwark: Metal Defenders are Immune to Armor Break Debuffs. Whenever a Metal Defender loses more than [X%] of their Max Health from a single strike, they gain an Indestructible Buff for [Y] seconds. This ability goes on cooldown when Indestructible Buff expires for [Z] seconds.

So basically you are turning this into IMIW/MODOK wars....

Haha, don’t rule out the evading and power gain S size champs. Domino, Medusa, Magik, Emma, Wasp, etc, just to name some of the more fun ones. Also all of the spider man /Gwen champs.

The complexity this brings now is crazy, especially for officers.
The difficulty for attackers is significantly increased. As if the item use wasn’t already high enough for most/some in my alliance. lol

This added layer of complexity is what concerns me. I can understand wanting to make 100% clears rare. But at some point, who keeps playing an aspect of the game where you repeatedly get your head kicked in?

I hope I’m wrong.

Dr. Zola

Eric987 · July 2019

I played in a master alliance last season. The biggest issue currently facing the end game players who are not whales popping cavalier crystals or crazy arena grinders is shards. I’ve completed all content in the game except 6.2 completion. The reason for that is because of the current gating system put in place. It’s hard to bring 4 5* skill champs to a path in 6.2 when your second best skill champ is a r3 crossbones. It’s hard to bring 4 6* to a path when your best 6* is nebula (who is actually underrated). The current amount of champs in the 5* and 6* crystals are so high that it’s very hard to get certain champs, especially awaken them. People need to stop treating 5* and 6* shards like they should be these super rare items for end game players. We are giving feedback to Kabam based on our playing experience and we need more shards.

LeNoirFaineant · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.

They dropped that 100% should be rare thing a long time ago @GroundedWisdom. It was misguided and is not part of the current goal. You are speaking a lot of generalities about "balance" and "hard" and then acting as though somehow that justifies the mediocre rewards buff lol.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

LeNoirFaineant said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Kobster84 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth?
War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap????
The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.

The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.

All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.

Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.

Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.

Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.

Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?

Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity.
For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy.
There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
They dropped that 100% should be rare thing a long time ago @GroundedWisdom. It was misguided and is not part of the current goal. You are speaking a lot of generalities about "balance" and "hard" and then acting as though somehow that justifies the mediocre rewards buff lol.

They never dropped it. The comment was made, but making it hard to complete was always the goal. I'm not justifying anything. It's not mine to justify. What I'm not supporting is the insatiable expectations. Lol. People want more no matter what it is.

Alliance Wars - Defense Tactics and Rewards Update Discussion Thread

Comments