I never said anything was adequate, sufficient, or anything of the sort. I said people wanted an increase, and I agree they were due. I agreed with that some time ago. Now that they've been increased, that's not enough. Don't know what to tell you. Things rarely are here, according to feedback.
If people don't care about War that is a Kabam problem @GroundedWisdom . They want us to play competitively to spend more units so if most people aren't willing to play it competitively that is a failure on their part. You can't even play Tier 1-5 because you neither have the skill or want to put the effort so Kabam has failed you. You're proving everyone's point.
I didn't say I don't have the skill. I have an Ally that's based on loyalty. We've been together for years. Had many opportunities to move up or leave. I'm loyal to my friends. Kabam hasn't failed. People decided to protest War because it got harder without more Rewards. Now that there are more, it's still not enough. We make our own choices. No one is going to spoon feed us back if we decide to peace out of War.
Then you don’t have experience in high tier war which is where most the changes have occured
What's your point? I'm still here discussing it. I'm capable of looking at the entire system without playing at the top.
No you can have an opinion of it but without experience you don’t know how hard it really is
I didn't claim I did. What I see is redundant. "It's hard at the Top.". It's supposed to be. That's why it's the Top. If it's becoming harder and that's somehow surprising, that's possibly because it's been too easy. I said something when people spoke up against some of the Nodes, fair enough. However, it is supposed to be hard in general. People want a balancing factor that keeps Allies out of higher Tiers that shouldn't be there. That's what we have here.
“It’s hard at the top” rewards are also meant to be good at the top Compare high plat 3 to low gold 1 I’d say plat 3 is about minimum twice as hard yet somehow there’s only 2k more 5* shards in plat 3
We're not going to get a 6* each War.
Well smartass if you had seen my suggestion I was saying 600 6* shards in t1
Perhaps I was being a bit flippant, yes. Just making a point. I don't agree with 600 6* Shards a War. That's too high over time. Hence my spiel about balance over time. Lol.
You do realize t1 is like the top 30 allies in the game I don’t think this is too high at all
The suggestion presented was T1-5 should have an extra 1500 5* Shards and an extra 500(6?) per War. That's too high over time. Wars run every week. Non-stop. Add them up.
I don’t think that suggestion is out of line at all given how many different champs there are currently in the game. If the game had like 50 champs the rewards payout would be pretty decent.
I never said anything was adequate, sufficient, or anything of the sort. I said people wanted an increase, and I agree they were due. I agreed with that some time ago. Now that they've been increased, that's not enough. Don't know what to tell you. Things rarely are here, according to feedback.
No one is asking you to tell us anything. The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming feedback is that the rewards update are not worth the effort to compete at a high level. I respect your opinion that the rewards update are sufficient for you given the level you play, but I am not sure how you can constantly argue with others opinion saying it is not for them at the level they play.
We come on here to give feedback to Kabam, sometimes they listen, however usually they don’t. The reality is when they see how spend in AW continues to drop off they might start listening to the feedback.
If people don't care about War that is a Kabam problem @GroundedWisdom . They want us to play competitively to spend more units so if most people aren't willing to play it competitively that is a failure on their part. You can't even play Tier 1-5 because you neither have the skill or want to put the effort so Kabam has failed you. You're proving everyone's point.
I didn't say I don't have the skill. I have an Ally that's based on loyalty. We've been together for years. Had many opportunities to move up or leave. I'm loyal to my friends. Kabam hasn't failed. People decided to protest War because it got harder without more Rewards. Now that there are more, it's still not enough. We make our own choices. No one is going to spoon feed us back if we decide to peace out of War.
Then you don’t have experience in high tier war which is where most the changes have occured
What's your point? I'm still here discussing it. I'm capable of looking at the entire system without playing at the top.
No you can have an opinion of it but without experience you don’t know how hard it really is
I didn't claim I did. What I see is redundant. "It's hard at the Top.". It's supposed to be. That's why it's the Top. If it's becoming harder and that's somehow surprising, that's possibly because it's been too easy. I said something when people spoke up against some of the Nodes, fair enough. However, it is supposed to be hard in general. People want a balancing factor that keeps Allies out of higher Tiers that shouldn't be there. That's what we have here.
“It’s hard at the top” rewards are also meant to be good at the top Compare high plat 3 to low gold 1 I’d say plat 3 is about minimum twice as hard yet somehow there’s only 2k more 5* shards in plat 3
We're not going to get a 6* each War.
Well smartass if you had seen my suggestion I was saying 600 6* shards in t1
Perhaps I was being a bit flippant, yes. Just making a point. I don't agree with 600 6* Shards a War. That's too high over time. Hence my spiel about balance over time. Lol.
You do realize t1 is like the top 30 allies in the game I don’t think this is too high at all
The suggestion presented was T1-5 should have an extra 1500 5* Shards and an extra 500(6?) per War. That's too high over time. Wars run every week. Non-stop. Add them up.
I don’t think that suggestion is out of line at all given how many different champs there are currently in the game. If the game had like 50 champs the rewards payout would be pretty decent.
I never said anything was adequate, sufficient, or anything of the sort. I said people wanted an increase, and I agree they were due. I agreed with that some time ago. Now that they've been increased, that's not enough. Don't know what to tell you. Things rarely are here, according to feedback.
No one is asking you to tell us anything. The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming feedback is that the rewards update are not worth the effort to compete at a high level. I respect your opinion that the rewards update are sufficient for you given the level you play, but I am not sure how you can constantly argue with others opinion saying it is not for them at the level they play.
We come on here to give feedback to Kabam, sometimes they listen, however usually they don’t. The reality is when they see how spend in AW continues to drop off they might start listening to the feedback.
I never once said sufficient. I literally just clarified that. I don't know why people keep asserting that. War isn't going anywhere. As long as it runs, people are going to compete. As long as people compete, there will be Tiers and Brackets, and someone will win based on that. What I said was they were increased. I also said you have to pace what you add because it's cumulative. I never said anything about being enough personally. People are free to assess that themselves. What I can agree or disagree with is the Rewards scaling with what we personally feel is worth it. That they can't do. I also don't agree that they have to add Rewards to bring people back into War. That's not even on a personal basis. That's because the Rewards are balanced within the Meta. Not in relation to who is bored of War, or who has had enough. That much is most definitely expectation and you can't quantify that in relation to the level of difficulty.
If people don't care about War that is a Kabam problem @GroundedWisdom . They want us to play competitively to spend more units so if most people aren't willing to play it competitively that is a failure on their part. You can't even play Tier 1-5 because you neither have the skill or want to put the effort so Kabam has failed you. You're proving everyone's point.
I didn't say I don't have the skill. I have an Ally that's based on loyalty. We've been together for years. Had many opportunities to move up or leave. I'm loyal to my friends. Kabam hasn't failed. People decided to protest War because it got harder without more Rewards. Now that there are more, it's still not enough. We make our own choices. No one is going to spoon feed us back if we decide to peace out of War.
Then you don’t have experience in high tier war which is where most the changes have occured
What's your point? I'm still here discussing it. I'm capable of looking at the entire system without playing at the top.
No you can have an opinion of it but without experience you don’t know how hard it really is
I didn't claim I did. What I see is redundant. "It's hard at the Top.". It's supposed to be. That's why it's the Top. If it's becoming harder and that's somehow surprising, that's possibly because it's been too easy. I said something when people spoke up against some of the Nodes, fair enough. However, it is supposed to be hard in general. People want a balancing factor that keeps Allies out of higher Tiers that shouldn't be there. That's what we have here.
“It’s hard at the top” rewards are also meant to be good at the top Compare high plat 3 to low gold 1 I’d say plat 3 is about minimum twice as hard yet somehow there’s only 2k more 5* shards in plat 3
We're not going to get a 6* each War.
Well smartass if you had seen my suggestion I was saying 600 6* shards in t1
Perhaps I was being a bit flippant, yes. Just making a point. I don't agree with 600 6* Shards a War. That's too high over time. Hence my spiel about balance over time. Lol.
You do realize t1 is like the top 30 allies in the game I don’t think this is too high at all
The suggestion presented was T1-5 should have an extra 1500 5* Shards and an extra 500(6?) per War. That's too high over time. Wars run every week. Non-stop. Add them up.
I don’t think that suggestion is out of line at all given how many different champs there are currently in the game. If the game had like 50 champs the rewards payout would be pretty decent.
I never said anything was adequate, sufficient, or anything of the sort. I said people wanted an increase, and I agree they were due. I agreed with that some time ago. Now that they've been increased, that's not enough. Don't know what to tell you. Things rarely are here, according to feedback.
No one is asking you to tell us anything. The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming feedback is that the rewards update are not worth the effort to compete at a high level. I respect your opinion that the rewards update are sufficient for you given the level you play, but I am not sure how you can constantly argue with others opinion saying it is not for them at the level they play.
We come on here to give feedback to Kabam, sometimes they listen, however usually they don’t. The reality is when they see how spend in AW continues to drop off they might start listening to the feedback.
I never once said sufficient. I literally just clarified that. I don't know why people keep asserting that. War isn't going anywhere. As long as it runs, people are going to compete. As long as people compete, there will be Tiers and Brackets, and someone will win based on that. What I said was they were increased. I also said you have to pace what you add because it's cumulative. I never said anything about being enough personally. People are free to assess that themselves. What I can agree or disagree with is the Rewards scaling with what we personally feel is worth it. That they can't do. I also don't agree that they have to add Rewards to bring people back into War. That's not even on a personal basis. That's because the Rewards are balanced within the Meta. Not in relation to who is bored of War, or who has had enough. That much is most definitely expectation and you can't quantify that in relation to the level of difficulty.
Exactly what metric and data are you using to determine that the rewards are in balance with the meta? Just because Kabam says so?
If people don't care about War that is a Kabam problem @GroundedWisdom . They want us to play competitively to spend more units so if most people aren't willing to play it competitively that is a failure on their part. You can't even play Tier 1-5 because you neither have the skill or want to put the effort so Kabam has failed you. You're proving everyone's point.
I didn't say I don't have the skill. I have an Ally that's based on loyalty. We've been together for years. Had many opportunities to move up or leave. I'm loyal to my friends. Kabam hasn't failed. People decided to protest War because it got harder without more Rewards. Now that there are more, it's still not enough. We make our own choices. No one is going to spoon feed us back if we decide to peace out of War.
Then you don’t have experience in high tier war which is where most the changes have occured
What's your point? I'm still here discussing it. I'm capable of looking at the entire system without playing at the top.
No you can have an opinion of it but without experience you don’t know how hard it really is
I didn't claim I did. What I see is redundant. "It's hard at the Top.". It's supposed to be. That's why it's the Top. If it's becoming harder and that's somehow surprising, that's possibly because it's been too easy. I said something when people spoke up against some of the Nodes, fair enough. However, it is supposed to be hard in general. People want a balancing factor that keeps Allies out of higher Tiers that shouldn't be there. That's what we have here.
“It’s hard at the top” rewards are also meant to be good at the top Compare high plat 3 to low gold 1 I’d say plat 3 is about minimum twice as hard yet somehow there’s only 2k more 5* shards in plat 3
We're not going to get a 6* each War.
Well smartass if you had seen my suggestion I was saying 600 6* shards in t1
Perhaps I was being a bit flippant, yes. Just making a point. I don't agree with 600 6* Shards a War. That's too high over time. Hence my spiel about balance over time. Lol.
You do realize t1 is like the top 30 allies in the game I don’t think this is too high at all
The suggestion presented was T1-5 should have an extra 1500 5* Shards and an extra 500(6?) per War. That's too high over time. Wars run every week. Non-stop. Add them up.
I don’t think that suggestion is out of line at all given how many different champs there are currently in the game. If the game had like 50 champs the rewards payout would be pretty decent.
I never said anything was adequate, sufficient, or anything of the sort. I said people wanted an increase, and I agree they were due. I agreed with that some time ago. Now that they've been increased, that's not enough. Don't know what to tell you. Things rarely are here, according to feedback.
No one is asking you to tell us anything. The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming feedback is that the rewards update are not worth the effort to compete at a high level. I respect your opinion that the rewards update are sufficient for you given the level you play, but I am not sure how you can constantly argue with others opinion saying it is not for them at the level they play.
We come on here to give feedback to Kabam, sometimes they listen, however usually they don’t. The reality is when they see how spend in AW continues to drop off they might start listening to the feedback.
I never once said sufficient. I literally just clarified that. I don't know why people keep asserting that. War isn't going anywhere. As long as it runs, people are going to compete. As long as people compete, there will be Tiers and Brackets, and someone will win based on that. What I said was they were increased. I also said you have to pace what you add because it's cumulative. I never said anything about being enough personally. People are free to assess that themselves. What I can agree or disagree with is the Rewards scaling with what we personally feel is worth it. That they can't do. I also don't agree that they have to add Rewards to bring people back into War. That's not even on a personal basis. That's because the Rewards are balanced within the Meta. Not in relation to who is bored of War, or who has had enough. That much is most definitely expectation and you can't quantify that in relation to the level of difficulty.
Did I say anything about people not playing war anymore or not competing? I am pretty sure I just said spending in aw will continue to drop off.
@GroundedWisdom how many units do you think a typical player spends in a T1/T2 and competitve war if their ally is trying their best for the win?
The expense must surely be relevant to determining whether the rewards are appropriate right? So I'm curious as to what you think the average expenditure is, since you said you don't play in T1-T5.
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth? War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap???? The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.
The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.
All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.
Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.
Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.
Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.
Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?
Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity. For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy. There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
They dropped that 100% should be rare thing a long time ago @GroundedWisdom. It was misguided and is not part of the current goal. You are speaking a lot of generalities about "balance" and "hard" and then acting as though somehow that justifies the mediocre rewards buff lol.
They never dropped it. The comment was made, but making it hard to complete was always the goal. I'm not justifying anything. It's not mine to justify. What I'm not supporting is the insatiable expectations. Lol. People want more no matter what it is.
Actually I spoke with one of the devs in a round table discussion. They dropped the goal of stopping 100%. Not that it isn't supposed to be hard but they realized that the entire game is geared toward completing content and that making war 100% rare didn't make sense.
@GroundedWisdom how many units do you think a typical player spends in a T1/T2 and competitve war if their ally is trying their best for the win?
The expense must surely be relevant to determining whether the rewards are appropriate right? So I'm curious as to what you think the average expenditure is, since you said you don't play in T1-T5.
The goal of that is competition. People spend because they don't want to lose. That's just as much a choice as anything. If Rewards was the sole goal of that, they'd be spending on other things. How much, I have no idea. That's not factored in to any Rewards. People may or may not have to spend to get through War but the Rewards aren't changed by that.
So 1500 more 5* and 500 more 6* Shards....per War? Do you not think that will add up to be too much over time? How will anyone ever catch up to Tiers 1-5 with that amount of growth? War isn't really designed to intice people back into it if they choose to focus more on AQ.
And the top 1 aq getting like double the t5b isn’t a big gap???? The tiers below don’t have to deal with defense tactics
That's literally the Top Prize for one Ally.
Ye but I do agree should be around 1500 5* shards and like 600 6* shards in a t1 win
It's Rewards over time with War. You have to factor in the cumulative gains. Plus you also have to balance them in a way that doesn't affect progress for other points. Otherwise you end up with a Perpetual Motion Machine where the Top Allies grow more and more and no one below them can catch up. While that may happen in some small degree, you still have to have a system that allows for Allies to advance. In fact, the inverse is necessary. Growth should slow down the higher you go. The balance of progress has to have the most momentum at the bottom, or else no one will be able to get anywhere.
Let me preface this by saying this isn’t a personal attack—but is your ally trying to catch the top alliances? Or even close the gap? Because mine isn’t and neither are about 99% of the alliances out there.
The gap grows wider because the players at the top are willing to play more, spend more and in some cases mod more than anyone else. If you can look at top players and think they aren’t growing at a much faster rate than those even in the 95th percentile, then I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Brand new champs are acquired, awakened and maxed quicker than most of us can accrue enough shards to open a basic 5* crystal.
All the talk (from a host of people) about balance from top to bottom strikes me as a little silly. Balance went out the window a long time ago.
Dr. Zola
When you're talking about "more, more, more", balance absolutely factors in. We're not talking about trying to close in on the Top Ally, or even Top 3. We're talking about balancing the overall Rewards earnable. Rewards for the top few are going to be more. Otherwise, there's no incentive to BE the top. Yes, there are some Allies who we will never likely catch up with. Happens with just about any game such as this I can think of. Balance overall is a different story entirely.
I think the “more” chorus comes from the fact that AW will likely be made more difficult with just a meager increase in rewards. Some map changes (like mobility) have been long overdue and are welcome. These most recent ones? Not as much.
Perhaps wars at lower tiers don’t feel like they’ve gotten more difficult or will get more difficult with the new changes. And perhaps the increased prizes at those levels feel lavish as well. I don’t know—I play for fun with old friends now and bump around below T3.
Just musing over some of the champ possibilities on the map with certain global nodes makes me less enchanted with AW than I was before. And throwing me a few extra scraps to do it? Doesn’t sit well.
Dr. Zola
I haven't argued that they aren't more difficult. Difficult enough has always been the end goal.
Difficult enough? What precisely do you believe that to mean?
Dr. Zola
The level of difficulty they have intended the higher Tiers to be. They've been quite upfront that their goals were that 100% should be a rarity. For me personally, I'd say it's the top. It should be hard. If not, then War literally becomes like AQ, and no matter what they put out, people grow accustomed to it. That's not a goal I would like to see. Top Tier shouldn't be easy. There is also a subversive implication here that I don't necessarily agree with. Any time they change something or make it harder, they're obligated to increase the Rewards. I don't agree with that default.
They dropped that 100% should be rare thing a long time ago @GroundedWisdom. It was misguided and is not part of the current goal. You are speaking a lot of generalities about "balance" and "hard" and then acting as though somehow that justifies the mediocre rewards buff lol.
They never dropped it. The comment was made, but making it hard to complete was always the goal. I'm not justifying anything. It's not mine to justify. What I'm not supporting is the insatiable expectations. Lol. People want more no matter what it is.
Actually I spoke with one of the devs in a round table discussion. They dropped the goal of stopping 100%. Not that it isn't supposed to be hard but they realized that the entire game is geared toward completing content and that making war 100% rare didn't make sense.
@GroundedWisdom how many units do you think a typical player spends in a T1/T2 and competitve war if their ally is trying their best for the win?
The expense must surely be relevant to determining whether the rewards are appropriate right? So I'm curious as to what you think the average expenditure is, since you said you don't play in T1-T5.
The goal of that is competition. People spend because they don't want to lose. That's just as much a choice as anything. If Rewards was the sole goal of that, they'd be spending on other things. How much, I have no idea. That's not factored in to any Rewards. People may or may not have to spend to get through War but the Rewards aren't changed by that.
So you are saying rewards should not be related to the difficulty (which translates to cost) of content? Ok that probably explains your views.
I think the point that most people are making here, which I share, is that rewards absolutely should be related to the difficulty (and therefore cost) of content, including AW. If the difficulty of AW is raised, we would like the rewards to be raised proportionately. People are just making the sensible observation that the rewards have not been raised in tandem with the difficulty, and therefore any logical allocation of resources would not be towards AW but away from it. To the extent that the design aim of AW is to want people to play competitively, people are giving feedback that the design aim will probably not be met because the rewards do not incentivise full competitive play.
PS: not sure why my previous comment along the same lines didn't seem to appear after posting.
@GroundedWisdom how many units do you think a typical player spends in a T1/T2 and competitve war if their ally is trying their best for the win?
The expense must surely be relevant to determining whether the rewards are appropriate right? So I'm curious as to what you think the average expenditure is, since you said you don't play in T1-T5.
The goal of that is competition. People spend because they don't want to lose. That's just as much a choice as anything. If Rewards was the sole goal of that, they'd be spending on other things. How much, I have no idea. That's not factored in to any Rewards. People may or may not have to spend to get through War but the Rewards aren't changed by that.
A couple of things...
It doesn’t seem logical to suggest there is an effort to balance the game’s meta via “reward flows” across the “system” and not in any way take spending into account. If the Contest were truly what it fictionalizes itself to be—some sort of grand cosmic competition—then perhaps.
But it’s a phone game whose goal is to monetize. As such, any calculation of rewards will take into account how much effort—time, real and virtual spend or otherwise—it takes to get a reward.
What a number of your fellow players are saying is that at T5 and above, there’s a disconnect between AW effort and rewards. Because Defensive Tactics still haven’t been played yet, that may be off-base. But at first blush, it doesn’t seem like it will be, based on a significant amount of experience.
That’s not asking for a candy trail, nor is it threatening to quit AW. But it is logical to note that, unless compulsive behavior is at work (and for some players it probably is), people will tend to consume less of something if they feel its rewards don’t square with the effort.
@GroundedWisdom how many units do you think a typical player spends in a T1/T2 and competitve war if their ally is trying their best for the win?
The expense must surely be relevant to determining whether the rewards are appropriate right? So I'm curious as to what you think the average expenditure is, since you said you don't play in T1-T5.
The goal of that is competition. People spend because they don't want to lose. That's just as much a choice as anything. If Rewards was the sole goal of that, they'd be spending on other things. How much, I have no idea. That's not factored in to any Rewards. People may or may not have to spend to get through War but the Rewards aren't changed by that.
So you are saying rewards should not be related to the difficulty (which translates to cost) of content? Ok that probably explains your views.
I think the point that most people are making here, which I share, is that rewards absolutely should be related to the difficulty (and therefore cost) of content, including AW. If the difficulty of AW is raised, we would like the rewards to be raised proportionately. People are just making the sensible observation that the rewards have not been raised in tandem with the difficulty, and therefore any logical allocation of resources would not be towards AW but away from it. To the extent that the design aim of AW is to want people to play competitively, people are giving feedback that the design aim will probably not be met because the rewards do not incentivise full competitive play.
PS: not sure why my previous comment along the same lines didn't seem to appear after posting.
I never said they shouldn't be related to the difficulty. I said the cost varies, and doesn't factor in. We earn Rewards. We don't get them because we've spent X amount of Units in War. If you spend 0 Units to win, or an Odin, the Rewards you're playing for don't change by that.
@GroundedWisdom how many units do you think a typical player spends in a T1/T2 and competitve war if their ally is trying their best for the win?
The expense must surely be relevant to determining whether the rewards are appropriate right? So I'm curious as to what you think the average expenditure is, since you said you don't play in T1-T5.
The goal of that is competition. People spend because they don't want to lose. That's just as much a choice as anything. If Rewards was the sole goal of that, they'd be spending on other things. How much, I have no idea. That's not factored in to any Rewards. People may or may not have to spend to get through War but the Rewards aren't changed by that.
A couple of things...
It doesn’t seem logical to suggest there is an effort to balance the game’s meta via “reward flows” across the “system” and not in any way take spending into account. If the Contest were truly what it fictionalizes itself to be—some sort of grand cosmic competition—then perhaps.
But it’s a phone game whose goal is to monetize. As such, any calculation of rewards will take into account how much effort—time, real and virtual spend or otherwise—it takes to get a reward.
What a number of your fellow players are saying is that at T5 and above, there’s a disconnect between AW effort and rewards. Because Defensive Tactics still haven’t been played yet, that may be off-base. But at first blush, it doesn’t seem like it will be, based on a significant amount of experience.
That’s not asking for a candy trail, nor is it threatening to quit AW. But it is logical to note that, unless compulsive behavior is at work (and for some players it probably is), people will tend to consume less of something if they feel its rewards don’t square with the effort.
Dr. Zola
If you don't think Rewards are carefully balanced within the game, then there's no point in continuing. They're not just scattered at will.
Also, if you're going to excerpt my candy trail comment, use context. That was in response to someone asking for more Rewards so they could pull people back into War.
@GroundedWisdom how many units do you think a typical player spends in a T1/T2 and competitve war if their ally is trying their best for the win?
The expense must surely be relevant to determining whether the rewards are appropriate right? So I'm curious as to what you think the average expenditure is, since you said you don't play in T1-T5.
The goal of that is competition. People spend because they don't want to lose. That's just as much a choice as anything. If Rewards was the sole goal of that, they'd be spending on other things. How much, I have no idea. That's not factored in to any Rewards. People may or may not have to spend to get through War but the Rewards aren't changed by that.
A couple of things...
It doesn’t seem logical to suggest there is an effort to balance the game’s meta via “reward flows” across the “system” and not in any way take spending into account. If the Contest were truly what it fictionalizes itself to be—some sort of grand cosmic competition—then perhaps.
But it’s a phone game whose goal is to monetize. As such, any calculation of rewards will take into account how much effort—time, real and virtual spend or otherwise—it takes to get a reward.
What a number of your fellow players are saying is that at T5 and above, there’s a disconnect between AW effort and rewards. Because Defensive Tactics still haven’t been played yet, that may be off-base. But at first blush, it doesn’t seem like it will be, based on a significant amount of experience.
That’s not asking for a candy trail, nor is it threatening to quit AW. But it is logical to note that, unless compulsive behavior is at work (and for some players it probably is), people will tend to consume less of something if they feel its rewards don’t square with the effort.
Dr. Zola
If you don't think Rewards are carefully balanced within the game, then there's no point in continuing. They're not just scattered at will.
“...and not in any way take spending into account.” Keep reading the entire first sentence.
I got a warning so I will discontinue arguing with others that feel the new AW rewards are sufficient. Especially when they're playing at a level where this is no competition to push to win each war.
I will say this, Kabam will realize that the buff in rewards will get more alliances in the top tiers to stop competing and therefore stop spending so I think our actions should will speak louder than anything because all the T1-T5 players agree the rewards don't match the difficulty.
The main issue is Act 6 and beyond having gates means that 5 star shards specifically should no longer be rare. Kabam will either have to make AW dish out a significant amount of 5 star shards per war or they'll have to cut it from 10k shards for a basic to 7.5k shards. One or the other will come soon as the amount of money for war diminishes.
@GroundedWisdom how many units do you think a typical player spends in a T1/T2 and competitve war if their ally is trying their best for the win?
The expense must surely be relevant to determining whether the rewards are appropriate right? So I'm curious as to what you think the average expenditure is, since you said you don't play in T1-T5.
The goal of that is competition. People spend because they don't want to lose. That's just as much a choice as anything. If Rewards was the sole goal of that, they'd be spending on other things. How much, I have no idea. That's not factored in to any Rewards. People may or may not have to spend to get through War but the Rewards aren't changed by that.
A couple of things...
It doesn’t seem logical to suggest there is an effort to balance the game’s meta via “reward flows” across the “system” and not in any way take spending into account. If the Contest were truly what it fictionalizes itself to be—some sort of grand cosmic competition—then perhaps.
But it’s a phone game whose goal is to monetize. As such, any calculation of rewards will take into account how much effort—time, real and virtual spend or otherwise—it takes to get a reward.
What a number of your fellow players are saying is that at T5 and above, there’s a disconnect between AW effort and rewards. Because Defensive Tactics still haven’t been played yet, that may be off-base. But at first blush, it doesn’t seem like it will be, based on a significant amount of experience.
That’s not asking for a candy trail, nor is it threatening to quit AW. But it is logical to note that, unless compulsive behavior is at work (and for some players it probably is), people will tend to consume less of something if they feel its rewards don’t square with the effort.
Dr. Zola
If you don't think Rewards are carefully balanced within the game, then there's no point in continuing. They're not just scattered at will.
“...and not in any way take spending into account.” Keep reading the entire first sentence.
Dr. Zola
It never does. People spend, people don't. Some spend all Items and Boosts, some use none. The Rewards don't change based on that. If they did, that would be an ACTUAL pay to win system.
If people don't care about War that is a Kabam problem @GroundedWisdom . They want us to play competitively to spend more units so if most people aren't willing to play it competitively that is a failure on their part. You can't even play Tier 1-5 because you neither have the skill or want to put the effort so Kabam has failed you. You're proving everyone's point.
I didn't say I don't have the skill. I have an Ally that's based on loyalty. We've been together for years. Had many opportunities to move up or leave. I'm loyal to my friends. Kabam hasn't failed. People decided to protest War because it got harder without more Rewards. Now that there are more, it's still not enough. We make our own choices. No one is going to spoon feed us back if we decide to peace out of War.
Then you don’t have experience in high tier war which is where most the changes have occured
What's your point? I'm still here discussing it. I'm capable of looking at the entire system without playing at the top.
Anybody can look at anything and comment but saying whether you think top tier rewards "increase" is fair or not and being so adamant about it is why people are disagreeing with your assertion(s). You don't have a great idea of what the difficulty is for the higher tiers if you've never been that high in wars current iteration. Not bashing you for being at a lower tier, just stating facts. To lend some credibility to my statements I've been doing Tier 1 wars for quite a few seasons now, top P1 and Master finishes.
Opinions are opinions and this is a public forum for a reason. When you're trying to act as if the minimal increase is enough and we should stop whining you should really take a step back and probably caveat every comment you make with the fact that your experience is not at the top and you're playing outside of the range where Kabam increased the difficulty.
Currently the +80 6* shards for a Tier 1 win is a bit low in my opinion and I would have liked to see a +150-200 6* shards jump since we're talking Tier 1. 10 wins in a season would equate to +800 more 6* shards than old rewards and I can tell you for a fact that 10 wins in Tier 1 for an entire season is pretty difficult to pull off and would probably land you in top 5 Master.
Over months and years yes that adds up but if we're looking at this for a whole season which is what everybody does then the "increase" isn't really moving the needle for the increased difficulty.
You know, people keep interjecting with that same retort and it's getting old. Not to mention redundant. "You don't play. You don't know." They also keep adding things I never said. I didn't say it's enough. I said they added more. I also disagreed with the suggestions put forth because it would be too much over time. People can say whether or not they think it's enough. No problems there. When they suggest something I can look at the whole system and register whether I think it's reasonable or not. Regardless of how hard it is, or how much people think their time and energy is worth, there are other things to consider. Namely how much Rewards will accumulate over time, and what effect that will have on progress. I'm really getting tired of the same rebuttal. I'm going to be here commenting on the subject, so if people don't agree with anything I say based on Tiers in the game, that will have to be their own perspective. Prejudice if you ask me, but it's not going to stop me from discussing it. That's the final thing I have to say on that.
You know, people keep interjecting with that same retort and it's getting old. Not to mention redundant. "You don't play. You don't know." They also keep adding things I never said. I didn't say it's enough. I said they added more. I also disagreed with the suggestions put forth because it would be too much over time. People can say whether or not they think it's enough. No problems there. When they suggest something I can look at the whole system and register whether I think it's reasonable or not. Regardless of how hard it is, or how much people think their time and energy is worth, there are other things to consider. Namely how much Rewards will accumulate over time, and what effect that will have on progress. I'm really getting tired of the same rebuttal. I'm going to be here commenting on the subject, so if people don't agree with anything I say based on Tiers in the game, that will have to be their own perspective. Prejudice if you ask me, but it's not going to stop me from discussing it. That's the final thing I have to say on that.
Well if your tired of hearing it you could try the harder content and get a better understanding of the effort it takes for the rewards. Then you will have a better understanding of other people's views.
But as long as you keep telling others what is or is not good enough for them without playing the content people will resist your viewpoint. That's just reality
You know, people keep interjecting with that same retort and it's getting old. Not to mention redundant. "You don't play. You don't know." They also keep adding things I never said. I didn't say it's enough. I said they added more.
So you're saying that the increase to rewards was an increase, got it. Obviously you aren't be incorrect if that's your only argument here. There are multiple instances where you are stating over time it adds up which again isn't incorrect.
The issue I personally have is when people are saying it isn't enough for top tier and you're battling them on it. Anything below Tier 5 actually hasn't had any real difficulty increase but the rewards have been increased A LOT which I think is nice. What I'd like to see is a bigger increase for the Tiers that actually have to deal with new nodes, global buffs, bigger stats and higher ranked champions.
People will obviously want more rewards if they could but when we're talking +80 6* shards for a win in Tier 1 being classified as an "increase" I have to scoff. That isn't moving the needle to entice people to go back to taking war seriously again. Yes participating in war is up to us, if we don't like it we shouldn't do it yada yada but if Kabam is looking for advice from a player who has been playing Top Tier war probably for about 7+ seasons now it's this >>>> Just increase the rewards a little more and make war crystals from victory and losses actually meaningful. It would go a long way.
You know, people keep interjecting with that same retort and it's getting old. Not to mention redundant. "You don't play. You don't know." They also keep adding things I never said. I didn't say it's enough. I said they added more.
So you're saying that the increase to rewards was an increase, got it. Obviously you aren't be incorrect if that's your only argument here. There are multiple instances where you are stating over time it adds up which again isn't incorrect.
The issue I personally have is when people are saying it isn't enough for top tier and you're battling them on it. Anything below Tier 5 actually hasn't had any real difficulty increase but the rewards have been increased A LOT which I think is nice. What I'd like to see is a bigger increase for the Tiers that actually have to deal with new nodes, global buffs, bigger stats and higher ranked champions.
People will obviously want more rewards if they could but when we're talking +80 6* shards for a win in Tier 1 being classified as an "increase" I have to scoff. That isn't moving the needle to entice people to go back to taking war seriously again. Yes participating in war is up to us, if we don't like it we shouldn't do it yada yada but if Kabam is looking for advice from a player who has been playing Top Tier war probably for about 7+ seasons now it's this >>>> Just increase the rewards a little more and make war crystals from victory and losses actually meaningful. It would go a long way.
It IS correct. When you're looking at increasing Rewards in War, you have to consider total potential gains. Meaning how much they add up to over time. Not sure what you mean by instances where that isn't correct, but they're carefully adjusted. Not just based on how much they think our time is worth. I'm not arguing anyone who says it isn't enough. Explicitly said that. Repeatedly.
- "You're not even there and you're telling people what's enough."
- "I never said anything was enough."
- "You keep telling people what they should be."
- "I didn't say anything about what should be."
- "Someone in your Tier shouldn't be arguing feedback from people higher up."
- "People can express their own feelings on it."
Do you see a pattern here?
People don't think it's enough. I don't argue that. That's how they feel. What I'm trying to explain that's not being received is there's a process to adding more.
I never said anything was adequate, sufficient, or anything of the sort. I said people wanted an increase, and I agree they were due. I agreed with that some time ago. Now that they've been increased, that's not enough. Don't know what to tell you. Things rarely are here, according to feedback.
Acuatlly earlier in the thread you said that you cant agree that the awards are underwelming. Which if you dont think there underwelming you must think they are sufficient or great. So feel free to make up your mind
You know, people keep interjecting with that same retort and it's getting old. Not to mention redundant. "You don't play. You don't know." They also keep adding things I never said. I didn't say it's enough. I said they added more.
So you're saying that the increase to rewards was an increase, got it. Obviously you aren't be incorrect if that's your only argument here. There are multiple instances where you are stating over time it adds up which again isn't incorrect.
The issue I personally have is when people are saying it isn't enough for top tier and you're battling them on it. Anything below Tier 5 actually hasn't had any real difficulty increase but the rewards have been increased A LOT which I think is nice. What I'd like to see is a bigger increase for the Tiers that actually have to deal with new nodes, global buffs, bigger stats and higher ranked champions.
People will obviously want more rewards if they could but when we're talking +80 6* shards for a win in Tier 1 being classified as an "increase" I have to scoff. That isn't moving the needle to entice people to go back to taking war seriously again. Yes participating in war is up to us, if we don't like it we shouldn't do it yada yada but if Kabam is looking for advice from a player who has been playing Top Tier war probably for about 7+ seasons now it's this >>>> Just increase the rewards a little more and make war crystals from victory and losses actually meaningful. It would go a long way.
It IS correct. When you're looking at increasing Rewards in War, you have to consider total potential gains. Meaning how much they add up to over time. Not sure what you mean by instances where that isn't correct, but they're carefully adjusted. Not just based on how much they think our time is worth. I'm not arguing anyone who says it isn't enough. Explicitly said that. Repeatedly.
- "You're not even there and you're telling people what's enough."
- "I never said anything was enough."
- "You keep telling people what they should be."
- "I didn't say anything about what should be."
- "Someone in your Tier shouldn't be arguing feedback from people higher up."
- "People can express their own feelings on it."
Do you see a pattern here?
People don't think it's enough. I don't argue that. That's how they feel. What I'm trying to explain that's not being received is there's a process to adding more.
Of course there is a process to adding more. That doesn't mean that the process doesn't fail. It sounds like your only real point is that adding more shards would be bad because of the accumulation. I think that's nonsense. People can buy all the cavalier crystals they want. For people at the top only new champs and rank up materials make a difference to their roster. Adding some more shards is really not a big deal. Everything else that you are arguing is irrelevant. They buffed the AQ rewards and the general consensus is that it was a good buff. They buffed the AW rewards and people that fight those wars overwhelmingly find the buff to be inadequate. Pointing out that there is a "process" is neither here nor there. We, who are fighting these wars, are providing feedback based on our experience in the game. People are correct in saying that if you aren't fighting wars with increased difficulty at a level where it is necessary to 100% the map even in a loss, you can't know whether or not this feedback is warranted. Being tired of hearing doesn't mean it isn't true.
Comments
We come on here to give feedback to Kabam, sometimes they listen, however usually they don’t. The reality is when they see how spend in AW continues to drop off they might start listening to the feedback.
War isn't going anywhere. As long as it runs, people are going to compete. As long as people compete, there will be Tiers and Brackets, and someone will win based on that.
What I said was they were increased. I also said you have to pace what you add because it's cumulative. I never said anything about being enough personally. People are free to assess that themselves. What I can agree or disagree with is the Rewards scaling with what we personally feel is worth it. That they can't do. I also don't agree that they have to add Rewards to bring people back into War. That's not even on a personal basis. That's because the Rewards are balanced within the Meta. Not in relation to who is bored of War, or who has had enough. That much is most definitely expectation and you can't quantify that in relation to the level of difficulty.
The expense must surely be relevant to determining whether the rewards are appropriate right? So I'm curious as to what you think the average expenditure is, since you said you don't play in T1-T5.
How much, I have no idea. That's not factored in to any Rewards. People may or may not have to spend to get through War but the Rewards aren't changed by that.
I think the point that most people are making here, which I share, is that rewards absolutely should be related to the difficulty (and therefore cost) of content, including AW. If the difficulty of AW is raised, we would like the rewards to be raised proportionately. People are just making the sensible observation that the rewards have not been raised in tandem with the difficulty, and therefore any logical allocation of resources would not be towards AW but away from it. To the extent that the design aim of AW is to want people to play competitively, people are giving feedback that the design aim will probably not be met because the rewards do not incentivise full competitive play.
PS: not sure why my previous comment along the same lines didn't seem to appear after posting.
It doesn’t seem logical to suggest there is an effort to balance the game’s meta via “reward flows” across the “system” and not in any way take spending into account. If the Contest were truly what it fictionalizes itself to be—some sort of grand cosmic competition—then perhaps.
But it’s a phone game whose goal is to monetize. As such, any calculation of rewards will take into account how much effort—time, real and virtual spend or otherwise—it takes to get a reward.
What a number of your fellow players are saying is that at T5 and above, there’s a disconnect between AW effort and rewards. Because Defensive Tactics still haven’t been played yet, that may be off-base. But at first blush, it doesn’t seem like it will be, based on a significant amount of experience.
That’s not asking for a candy trail, nor is it threatening to quit AW. But it is logical to note that, unless compulsive behavior is at work (and for some players it probably is), people will tend to consume less of something if they feel its rewards don’t square with the effort.
Dr. Zola
Dr. Zola
I will say this, Kabam will realize that the buff in rewards will get more alliances in the top tiers to stop competing and therefore stop spending so I think our actions should will speak louder than anything because all the T1-T5 players agree the rewards don't match the difficulty.
The main issue is Act 6 and beyond having gates means that 5 star shards specifically should no longer be rare. Kabam will either have to make AW dish out a significant amount of 5 star shards per war or they'll have to cut it from 10k shards for a basic to 7.5k shards. One or the other will come soon as the amount of money for war diminishes.
Why did the rewards go back to the old?
This was yesterday during matchmaking.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/149600/new-aw-rewards-appeared-and-then-reverted-back-to-the-last-iteration#latest
Anybody can look at anything and comment but saying whether you think top tier rewards "increase" is fair or not and being so adamant about it is why people are disagreeing with your assertion(s). You don't have a great idea of what the difficulty is for the higher tiers if you've never been that high in wars current iteration. Not bashing you for being at a lower tier, just stating facts. To lend some credibility to my statements I've been doing Tier 1 wars for quite a few seasons now, top P1 and Master finishes.
Opinions are opinions and this is a public forum for a reason. When you're trying to act as if the minimal increase is enough and we should stop whining you should really take a step back and probably caveat every comment you make with the fact that your experience is not at the top and you're playing outside of the range where Kabam increased the difficulty.
Currently the +80 6* shards for a Tier 1 win is a bit low in my opinion and I would have liked to see a +150-200 6* shards jump since we're talking Tier 1. 10 wins in a season would equate to +800 more 6* shards than old rewards and I can tell you for a fact that 10 wins in Tier 1 for an entire season is pretty difficult to pull off and would probably land you in top 5 Master.
Over months and years yes that adds up but if we're looking at this for a whole season which is what everybody does then the "increase" isn't really moving the needle for the increased difficulty.
They also keep adding things I never said. I didn't say it's enough. I said they added more. I also disagreed with the suggestions put forth because it would be too much over time.
People can say whether or not they think it's enough. No problems there. When they suggest something I can look at the whole system and register whether I think it's reasonable or not. Regardless of how hard it is, or how much people think their time and energy is worth, there are other things to consider. Namely how much Rewards will accumulate over time, and what effect that will have on progress.
I'm really getting tired of the same rebuttal. I'm going to be here commenting on the subject, so if people don't agree with anything I say based on Tiers in the game, that will have to be their own perspective. Prejudice if you ask me, but it's not going to stop me from discussing it. That's the final thing I have to say on that.
But as long as you keep telling others what is or is not good enough for them without playing the content people will resist your viewpoint. That's just reality
The issue I personally have is when people are saying it isn't enough for top tier and you're battling them on it. Anything below Tier 5 actually hasn't had any real difficulty increase but the rewards have been increased A LOT which I think is nice. What I'd like to see is a bigger increase for the Tiers that actually have to deal with new nodes, global buffs, bigger stats and higher ranked champions.
People will obviously want more rewards if they could but when we're talking +80 6* shards for a win in Tier 1 being classified as an "increase" I have to scoff. That isn't moving the needle to entice people to go back to taking war seriously again. Yes participating in war is up to us, if we don't like it we shouldn't do it yada yada but if Kabam is looking for advice from a player who has been playing Top Tier war probably for about 7+ seasons now it's this >>>> Just increase the rewards a little more and make war crystals from victory and losses actually meaningful. It would go a long way.
I'm not arguing anyone who says it isn't enough. Explicitly said that. Repeatedly.
- "You're not even there and you're telling people what's enough."
- "I never said anything was enough."
- "You keep telling people what they should be."
- "I didn't say anything about what should be."
- "Someone in your Tier shouldn't be arguing feedback from people higher up."
- "People can express their own feelings on it."
Do you see a pattern here?
People don't think it's enough. I don't argue that. That's how they feel. What I'm trying to explain that's not being received is there's a process to adding more.