@PantherusNZ are you serious? Even Kabam admits it took much longer than it should have. We don’t want things done too quickly or too late. There is a perfect time interval in between that they should aim for
@PantherusNZ are you serious? Even Kabam admits it took much longer than it should have. We don’t want things done too quickly or too late. There is a perfect time interval in between that they should aim for
@Kabam Miike is saying that the changes could have happened quicker in retrospect, but the amount of time it took to release these changes has nothing to do with how long it would take to make changes of this magnitude, rather the changes took a long time to release because Kabam had to deal with the player reaction to the initial balance announcement, rethink the balance methodology, spend considerable time figuring out how to best present the data behind the changes and also review the changes to make sure they fit the new balance change methodology.
Miike is also implying that Kabam went even slower than was necessary to do all of that, so that Kabam could gauge player reactions to the new information being given about the balance change methodology changes.
@PantherusNZ are you serious? Even Kabam admits it took much longer than it should have. We don’t want things done too quickly or too late. There is a perfect time interval in between that they should aim for
All I'm saying is that no matter what Kabam do, people complain.
Individual acts can absolutely be considered incorrect in hindsight, but while they were processing the change they would have been aware of all the times they pushed out new content only to have missed something in QA testing and had mobs screaming that they didn't test enough and/or rushed the content; meanwhile they take their time on other content, try to get it right, and have people saying they took too long.
Of course the beauty of hindsight and distance is being able to make such claims but while they're in the thick of it, it's easy to over-compensate.
I am fine with these rebalances being minor tweaks. I just wonder if any of the champs chosen were the right ones. I have Namor at 5/65, and the rest of them as R2 5*s (except Maw)... and none of these rebalances change that. Cull might have gone up with added BP. Torch was going to R4 at some point anyway. We have a R5 Annihilus in my AW BG already, so his tweak on offense isn't enough for me to invest resources in. Namor should have been left untouched IMO. I can regen more in 1 fight with numerous other champs on my roster than Namor does in a full quest. Despite what those data charts "say." The champ left untouched is the one I was hoping got a rebalance the most. Invisible Woman is a tiny tweak away from being a viable option in this game. Long story short? Nothing changed for me. None of these champs get ranked up or down. No champ will get used more...or less. It's all just... 🤷♂️ MEH.
For me Cull was ok. An improvement for early fights,but the block is still real bad, especially since most of the time you have to perry to get off a heavy for armor break. I didn't notice much from my 6* HT Anilus and maw, were a waste of time Namor was unnecessary, and his regen was far from op Im just lucky to have a big roster, so im ok with any challenge I want to take on, these changes and the fact that we are going to keep having changes to champs in the future really turn me off from the game, i play less which is over all really good in improving my quality of life, and I just feel the next step will be greatly reducing my time to just doing AW, AQ and just the uncollected monthly. I think it will probably get to the point were all I'll do is check in the daily for the calendar then just stop, unless they do more positives for players. After 3 years maybe it's time to move on.
But ebony maw? I mean he still hits like a noodle. Such an OP character. Smooth cool animation. Little bit of bleed DOT from sp2. Or a bit of slow debuff from sp1 would have gave him some attack uses. He is a defender for diversity reason. And still for attack no one will use him i think. He barely hits hard or with a crit. Saw videos from Brian grant and seatin.
Blood, to answer your question.. nope, supposedly Ebony Maw degen is better than before.. before it was soggy noodle, now it’s wet noodle.. annoying defender with little bit of resistance.. unless he is in a node that boost him by 500% attack and 1000% health.. his base attack is just weak.. there are a lot of 3* with better attack damage.
I hope I don’t get demerits for speaking the truth.. what if after the ‘buff’ people note that nothing seem to improve with the champions, will Kabam re-adjust or re-work them or say that’s it.
@PantherusNZ are you serious? Even Kabam admits it took much longer than it should have. We don’t want things done too quickly or too late. There is a perfect time interval in between that they should aim for
They took it slow because of how the community reacted to the rebalancing announcement. Read Miikes statement again.
I'm gonna be very honest with you guys here. You're right that this shouldn't have taken this long, and these changes are very small. But this was done as a direct result of the reaction that players had to the announcement of Cull's rebalance. We always tried to make it clear that rebalance changes are meant to be small, and only make a few changes to numbers here and there, but understandably, players didn't know what that meant for Cull, and were scared of what it would be in the end.
So, we wanted to make sure that we made you all more comfortable with the idea of Balance changes, and show you why we do them. Human Torch and Annihilus's balance changes were basically ready by the time we announced we're putting a pause on it. But in order to gather the data and present it in a player facing manner for all of these Champs, we needed to take some time.
We made it very clear that these are not Reworks, and that these changes should not change your perception of a Champion if you love them.
Going forward, if our players feel they're more comfortable with these, maybe we will be much quicker with them, but from what many of you have told me, you like the context, you like the data, and you like that we took our time to actually think about the changes.
Human torch doesn’t go from 0-20 in 2 seconds and from his sp2
The disconnect between the perceived effort in the balance changes and result 1) Tons of notices and release of all the data used to make determination (summoners are primed for big changes) 2) Buffs are almost imperceptible 3) Nerfs are sort of buffs (depending on perspective)
These seem like changes you could have done at a whim.
Kabam looks fantastically incompetent when they put in so much effort with so little result.
Unlike others i hit disagree for this reason. I'm not kabams defender or anyone elses but let's be fair. They make a buff or nerf.... people freak out so now it seems instead what they are doing is releasing champs either with testing or only at best barely tweaking any. Ex. Namor,cull,ht. Am I wrong guys? Does anyone else feel this way? Without getting into everything yes kabam can do better but so can we. We are human after all and not perfect. Hopefully they will improve and also we can improve as a community not being so toxic on the forums and instead talking to them like you would to someone's face in person.
I agree with @Derek2k on this. I’m often amazed over how people talk to each other in here. About the changes. Reading between the lines it almost seems like a bunch of people are upset that Culls or Namors nerfs wasn’t bigger and now they can’t really justify selling them and be able to rank up a new favorite toy. Did it take to long? Yes, but if they would have done it fast and sloppy it would have been worse imo.
i dnt have new champs and will never have so most of these changes or rebalances will never affect me except for may b worst champs i get them in 6* pool. but overall these amount of graphs and data should have more affect on changes , 6+ months to increase 6 seconds of fury and yet champ is a failed design , or HT tht will still b only used for mystic or energy champs, basically nothing has changed about perception of champs and they exactly needed that so why not do it quicker and get it over with in month or two!!! and carry on making changes on all new champs that released after like Elsa bloodstone, vision aarkus, BwCV, g2099,silver aurfer, if GOAL is to not change the perception and keeping trash as trash and OP as just slightly less OP then these updates should have been quicker!! BALANCE changes should be necessity on this level of game,this is one of the most deep,detailed,and huge game and should need continuos balance changes and not just new champ release!! solo daily events provide u with t3 basic, 2* sig stone, 1 4* sig stone ,is that useful for anyone who has move past act 3 (which is like first 2 months now for any player) GaMe has 160 playable characters and only 20 of them are being ranked higher and if anyone takes anything else they either get kicked off alliance or gonna have hard time doing future content ,(is it really crime to upgrade what you like and not upgrade trash champs like thor ragnarok) diffrence between a character released in 2019 and 2016/15/14 is so huge its a joke,shouldnt it get a rebalance as well?? new mechanics and insanely diffcult nodes are popping in act 6,wars and passive AIs in AQ tht just wants your time,so shouldnt more characters have better kits to deal with it?? why is champs like Og ironman,dr strange or even ironfist are completely ignored and has absolutely no use now?? shouldnt it get rebalance as well?
The point of these changes isn't to give them total reworks into something powerful and on par with "God Tiers". It isn't even to make them the next best choice. It's proactive adjustments, small adjustments, that will minimize problems down the road. Older Champs require a considerable amount of attention in reworking, and that puts a strain on future and current content. Adjusting the newer Champions in small ways reduces the work load of programming as well as potential future reworks. Somehow people built large expectations because of the wait time but it's not a "Took you 6 months to come up with this!" kind of situation. The original plan was explained in detail long ago. That hasn't changed. These aren't massive reworks. Just tweaks.
I guess with the whole thing I just don’t see the point.
Nothing really has changed and all of this largely had no impact on anything relating to uses of the champs or gameplay decisions around rank up. The needles barely moved at all if they did on pretty much all the champs.
Just seems like a waste of time and effort on everyone’s parts to even have this be a thing if they don’t do really anything in the grand scheme of the game.
Rebalance changes needs to stay firm on proper changes and not just be a time waste! saw BG's live stream and his idea of rebalance would absolutely work for this game properly!! i suggest devs to talk to brian grant regarding next round of rebalance please!!! as per him trash doesnt need to be trash and should be good for something ,cant have champions with absolutely 90% of useless abilities and few who can just heavy and finish any content !! yeh domino,corvus,hyperion,and few others!! if they really want to rebalance game they really need to bring some bottom level champ to a decent level damage or utility wise and at the same time bring champs like domino ,ghost to a certain level where they r still top champs but just doesnt roll through any content without any care!! champs who r old but border line decent but are least likely to be upgraded (like mid level champs but who still ride benches because new champs do have same abilties as them but better) need some updated base stats may n to stay relevant with content or may b a single new ability that can make them viable , - for ex. make drstrange's regen half but give him powerburn on that phase ,fury phase make him hit harder, add an ability to have two phases at same time like symbiote supreme - have Og thor absolute immune to any ability reduction or be able to parry projectiles or even give aptitude + powergain buff on sp3 - have LOkI ability to carry persistant charge, where he can use stolen buff from fight to fight like VTD but loki can only trigger for first 7 seconds and after sp3 and have hard cap of 5 buffs. - reduce ghost,corvus's critical damage - reduce quake's concussion damage - reduce hyperion's power gain and fury value or have hard cap on hyperion's furys like silver surfer n give aptitude instead - New CMM ,not sure abt nick fury he seems he fights at 30% gets cheaped down but cant rule him out of Op section - well these were just examples but i really hope next Rebalance changes are more meaningful and adds actual balance and freshness to game !!
@Kabam Miike I don’t have all the champions rebalanced, but I do have annihilous, and he is super disappointing. The only way he can do decent damage (not great damage) is stacking 12 fury’s. To get that many takes several rounds of L1 because of the short stifle duration. Instead of extending his weak fury, the stifle duration should’ve been extended. Then it would be possible to get the 12 needed to get max damage. Our cap the stifle at six and double the potency of his fury. I feel like the best option would be to decrease the stifle cap and increase the fury potency. We understand the rebalancing should be small tweaks to make them more viable, but this tweak does nothing to address that. Not expecting a massive colossus type overhaul, something to actually make his better.
I'm gonna be very honest with you guys here. You're right that this shouldn't have taken this long, and these changes are very small. But this was done as a direct result of the reaction that players had to the announcement of Cull's rebalance. We always tried to make it clear that rebalance changes are meant to be small, and only make a few changes to numbers here and there, but understandably, players didn't know what that meant for Cull, and were scared of what it would be in the end.
So, we wanted to make sure that we made you all more comfortable with the idea of Balance changes, and show you why we do them. Human Torch and Annihilus's balance changes were basically ready by the time we announced we're putting a pause on it. But in order to gather the data and present it in a player facing manner for all of these Champs, we needed to take some time.
We made it very clear that these are not Reworks, and that these changes should not change your perception of a Champion if you love them.
Going forward, if our players feel they're more comfortable with these, maybe we will be much quicker with them, but from what many of you have told me, you like the context, you like the data, and you like that we took our time to actually think about the changes.
Thanks for being honest here, that makes sense, just wish the bad chanps were at least made ok-good
cant help but feel like these changes are a softening up of the community for future changes. Hopefully any future changes follow suit in severity, but if that is the case then these adjustments going forward are meaningless in both directions.
cant help but feel like these changes are a softening up of the community for future changes. Hopefully any future changes follow suit in severity, but if that is the case then these adjustments going forward are meaningless in both directions.
@Colinwhitworth69 the balance update was announced 6 months ago. It was then paused for over 3 months with no update and this was the best they could do. I understand that the changes were supposed to be small, but what was the point in holding the changes off for over 6 months and making them this small. Collecting the data and actually making changes this small does not take 6 months. 6 months is more of a time period in which champs are completely reworked (colossus and old man logan).
They were going to announce them a while back but the collective losing of our minds stopped them. They then decided to create an in-depth statistical analysis of their reasons so that when they did announce this people would understand their thinking. And of course there were the holidays, which always slows down a company.
Personally, I actually have LESS faith in the process than I had before...
It's great that the game team chose to show the "data" the decisions were based on, BUT the data was skewed, and as a result literal WRONG decisions were made.
1. Namor Regen- There is absolutely NO way that real game play at ANY level shows Namor's regen to be better than others. It was horrible pre-nerf, and it's now non existent.
2. Maw is such a bad champ that post-buff there are STILL 3 star champs that can out DPS a ranked 5 star.
3. Annihilus got absolutely NO improvement for most uses. He was an OP defender, and that has not changed outside his very very niche uses.
I hope Kabam gets more comfortable with these re-balance changes and gets the confidence to "tune up" older champs that may not require a full rework, but a possible rebalance could bring them back into the meta. Hawkeye, Elektra, Black Panther, Black Panther Civil War, Civil Warrior, Cyclops, Dormammu, Psylocke...the list goes on.
To be clear, I'd hope a rebalance wouldn't preclude a champ from being completely reworked later. For example, I think Magneto could have his damage and ability accuracy increased in the short term to make him more usable. That would hopefully hold us over until he gets a full rework that he definitely deserves.
They get/got so much hate because they make announcements w/o any actual info and then delay giving the info for months. They've lost our trust with how poorly they've handled past nerf so they don't get the benefit of the doubt from the community.
IMO, what took them so long was figuring out a compensation package that somewhat fixed the issue of nerfing champs that people spent thousands of dollars on. Champ acquisition in this game is 100% the biggest factor in stifling balance changes. When they only way to et a champ is spending 3 days in the arena or dropping Odin's on crystals, you can't just nerf champs unless they're actually gamebreaking. Cull and Namor were not gamerbreaking.
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Miike is also implying that Kabam went even slower than was necessary to do all of that, so that Kabam could gauge player reactions to the new information being given about the balance change methodology changes.
Individual acts can absolutely be considered incorrect in hindsight, but while they were processing the change they would have been aware of all the times they pushed out new content only to have missed something in QA testing and had mobs screaming that they didn't test enough and/or rushed the content; meanwhile they take their time on other content, try to get it right, and have people saying they took too long.
Of course the beauty of hindsight and distance is being able to make such claims but while they're in the thick of it, it's easy to over-compensate.
I have Namor at 5/65, and the rest of them as R2 5*s (except Maw)... and none of these rebalances change that. Cull might have gone up with added BP. Torch was going to R4 at some point anyway. We have a R5 Annihilus in my AW BG already, so his tweak on offense isn't enough for me to invest resources in.
Namor should have been left untouched IMO. I can regen more in 1 fight with numerous other champs on my roster than Namor does in a full quest. Despite what those data charts "say."
The champ left untouched is the one I was hoping got a rebalance the most. Invisible Woman is a tiny tweak away from being a viable option in this game.
Long story short? Nothing changed for me. None of these champs get ranked up or down. No champ will get used more...or less. It's all just... 🤷♂️ MEH.
I didn't notice much from my 6* HT
Anilus and maw, were a waste of time
Namor was unnecessary, and his regen was far from op
Im just lucky to have a big roster, so im ok with any challenge I want to take on, these changes and the fact that we are going to keep having changes to champs in the future really turn me off from the game, i play less which is over all really good in improving my quality of life, and I just feel the next step will be greatly reducing my time to just doing AW, AQ and just the uncollected monthly. I think it will probably get to the point were all I'll do is check in the daily for the calendar then just stop, unless they do more positives for players. After 3 years maybe it's time to move on.
Smooth cool animation.
Little bit of bleed DOT from sp2. Or a bit of slow debuff from sp1 would have gave him some attack uses.
He is a defender for diversity reason. And still for attack no one will use him i think.
He barely hits hard or with a crit. Saw videos from Brian grant and seatin.
I hope I don’t get demerits for speaking the truth.. what if after the ‘buff’ people note that nothing seem to improve with the champions, will Kabam re-adjust or re-work them or say that’s it.
About the changes. Reading between the lines it almost seems like a bunch of people are upset that Culls or Namors nerfs wasn’t bigger and now they can’t really justify selling them and be able to rank up a new favorite toy.
Did it take to long? Yes, but if they would have done it fast and sloppy it would have been worse imo.
GaMe has 160 playable characters and only 20 of them are being ranked higher and if anyone takes anything else they either get kicked off alliance or gonna have hard time doing future content ,(is it really crime to upgrade what you like and not upgrade trash champs like thor ragnarok) diffrence between a character released in 2019 and 2016/15/14 is so huge its a joke,shouldnt it get a rebalance as well?? new mechanics and insanely diffcult nodes are popping in act 6,wars and passive AIs in AQ tht just wants your time,so shouldnt more characters have better kits to deal with it?? why is champs like Og ironman,dr strange or even ironfist are completely ignored and has absolutely no use now?? shouldnt it get rebalance as well?
Nothing really has changed and all of this largely had no impact on anything relating to uses of the champs or gameplay decisions around rank up. The needles barely moved at all if they did on pretty much all the champs.
Just seems like a waste of time and effort on everyone’s parts to even have this be a thing if they don’t do really anything in the grand scheme of the game.
but who still ride benches because new champs do have same abilties as them but better) need some updated base stats may n to stay relevant with content or may b a single new ability that can make them
viable ,
- for ex. make drstrange's regen half but give him powerburn on that phase ,fury phase make him hit harder, add an ability to have two phases at same time like symbiote supreme
- have Og thor absolute immune to any ability reduction or be able to parry projectiles or even give aptitude + powergain buff on sp3
- have LOkI ability to carry persistant charge, where he can use stolen buff from fight to fight like VTD but loki can only trigger for first 7 seconds and after sp3 and have hard cap of 5 buffs.
- reduce ghost,corvus's critical damage
- reduce quake's concussion damage
- reduce hyperion's power gain and fury value or have hard cap on hyperion's furys like silver surfer n give aptitude instead
- New CMM ,not sure abt nick fury he seems he fights at 30% gets cheaped down but cant rule him out of Op section
- well these were just examples but i really hope next Rebalance changes are more meaningful and adds actual balance and freshness to game !!
Ebony Maw is a hard counter to the Rage node.
It's great that the game team chose to show the "data" the decisions were based on, BUT the data was skewed, and as a result literal WRONG decisions were made.
1. Namor Regen- There is absolutely NO way that real game play at ANY level shows Namor's regen to be better than others. It was horrible pre-nerf, and it's now non existent.
2. Maw is such a bad champ that post-buff there are STILL 3 star champs that can out DPS a ranked 5 star.
3. Annihilus got absolutely NO improvement for most uses. He was an OP defender, and that has not changed outside his very very niche uses.
To be clear, I'd hope a rebalance wouldn't preclude a champ from being completely reworked later. For example, I think Magneto could have his damage and ability accuracy increased in the short term to make him more usable. That would hopefully hold us over until he gets a full rework that he definitely deserves.
IMO, what took them so long was figuring out a compensation package that somewhat fixed the issue of nerfing champs that people spent thousands of dollars on. Champ acquisition in this game is 100% the biggest factor in stifling balance changes. When they only way to et a champ is spending 3 days in the arena or dropping Odin's on crystals, you can't just nerf champs unless they're actually gamebreaking. Cull and Namor were not gamerbreaking.