Developers Thoughts: Improving Alliance Wars Discussion Thread

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  • If you think this is bad just wait till you see the **** they come up with next to nerf blade.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,305 ★★★★★
    They said this is just the start. More global buffs will be added in season 6.

    They are rotating buffs in and out. Read more carefully and back off the ledge.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,305 ★★★★★
    PaytoPlay wrote: »
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    PaytoPlay wrote: »
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    PaytoPlay wrote: »
    @Kabam Miike the statement about global buffs imply that the alliance gets to chose between two nodes, but I'm not sure. Will both global buffs be active for each tile or will the alliance get to chose? And if they get to chose will it be active for every tile or will the alliance get to chose the buff per tile?

    Global implies map wide so every tile. Rotating implies it will change from war to war so probably won't be active at the same time. Good question regarding who pick the active global buff though... Probably not the alliance

    For Season 5 the 2 mentioned nodes will be active for this season only. Season 6 will introduce new global buffs.
    @PaytoPlay @Ghostspider231

    Sounds like it's in addition to the two though... So there'll be more nodes to choose from in season 6 than the initial 2

    @PaytoPlay its not. I was a part of the feedback group. They will be rotating the 2 for season 5 out for 2 others in season 6.

    Ok good to know.

    I should add that it could be 2 or maybe 1 or maybe 3. They didn't really say but I am assuming 2 for season 6 as well.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,305 ★★★★★
    If you think this is bad just wait till you see the **** they come up with next to nerf blade.

    Just stop. It's not a nerf. Does Blade still cause bleed in- Quests/AQ? Yes. Not a nerf.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,305 ★★★★★
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    All this is just another nerf under the guise of diversity. They know we won’t change our attack teams so they just weakened them even more so we time out and die more. Every season they find a way to make war harder and for people to spend more without upping the rewards. I wonder how much longer people are willing to take their BS.

    For the love of everything, THIS IS NOT A NERF!!!!! Stop calling it that. A nerf would a fundamental change to a champ. That is not what is happening here. This only effects AW and not other game mode. Plus these 2 nodes are ONLY FOR SEASON 5 and not beyond. Not a nerf by any means what-so-ever.

    Yes it is a nerf smh all bleed champs will be useless now in aw

    Were there bleed immune nodes before the global buffs? Oh yeah there were and blade did just fine. Plus this is only for challenger and expert maps as well. Anything lower wont have the globals.
  • thegrimmlingthegrimmling Posts: 167
    Address off-season yanking to influence matchmaking in the regular season.
  • @Kabam Miike so rank down tickets for bleed champs and full refunds for SS crystal buys are in order?

    What about refunds for DW?
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,305 ★★★★★
    @Kabam Miike so rank down tickets for bleed champs and full refunds for SS crystal buys are in order?

    What about refunds for DW?

    So if you get RDT's and refunds for DW and you rank down Blade or whoever and rank someone else up and then Act 6 comes out. What are you going to do?
  • BodhizenBodhizen Posts: 180
    edited October 2018
    Issue 1: Meta Champions vs Diversity
    I think that it's great that you're going to look into making Alliance Wars a mode of play where more champions become viable for both offense and defense. However, that means that you may have to reconfigure some of the champions (and many of the nodes) to ensure that certain nodes play really well with the abilities of certain champions.

    As one example, Kamala Khan has been panned by the community (and rightfully so) as a terrible champion pretty much since she joined the contest. Her "deformation" ability does nothing, and her Fury powers are removed as she gets hit (or as time goes on), so in order to play her decently well, you have to play perfectly and you constantly have to be restoring her Fury. Her Fury determines whether she gets increased Attack rating, whether she gets increased Block proficiency, whether she removes Armor Up effects from opponents [which would be a great counter to Champs like Iron Man (Infinity War) if she wasn't so finicky and unreliable to play].

    If you're going to modify nodes to make Fury-based champions like Kamala Khan more effective, you either have to set up a node that ensures that Fury effects don't expire when the opponent is struck (which only affects some of the Fury-dependent Champions), that Fury effects never expire once gained, or you need to rework how Kamala Khan works so that your existing Fury-enhancing nodes make her a viable choice. The first two options would make Kamala Khan a better defender (on certain nodes), while the third option makes Kamala Khan a better defender and attacker, and depending upon how you rework Kamala Khan, she might actually become a viable champion to use against characters like the aforementioned Iron Man (Infinity War) with her ability to strip off 2 stacks of his Armor Up buffs with all of her Special Attacks.

    Effectively, this means that you either have to tailor buffs on nodes to make specific champions viable defenders (which won't make more champions viable defenders, just different champions viable defenders for that specific war), or you have to make nodes that target the abilities of a wider array of champions that still give preference to some champions over others (such as enhanced Fury effects making champions like Sabretooth or Drax far more effective than Kamala Khan due to the fact that her Fury buffs being so easy to knock off).
    This includes a way to let Alliances “customize” their Alliance Wars Defenses by selecting a Global Buff that suits their roster the best.
    You mention that champion rosters are largely luck-based. Specifically, you said, "Currently, Summoners who are lucky enough to collect certain Champions will have a large advantage over Summoners that haven’t." You cannot "customize" Alliance War Defenses by selecting Global Buffs that don't make poorly designed (or power creeped out of viability) champions as effective of defenders (or attackers) as better designed and/or objectively more powerful champions. Failing to update more than two Champions a year does a great disservice to the community of players who were either unlucky enough to draw "bad" champions, or who have champions on their rosters that do nothing other than collect digital dust as they sit unused on the shelf.
    Solution 1: Season 5 Update: Rotating Global Buffs
    This all sounds great, but if you're going to achieve your stated goal of not increasing the overall difficulty of Alliance Wars, you're going to have to strip out some of the existing buffs from nodes. Using your own examples of Amped Up (Attacker) and Bleed Immune (Defender) buffs, when you're going after a Power Gain champion on a Power Gain or All or Nothing node, you still need to bring a Power Drain/Power Burn/Power Lock Champion. If Magik is on your champion roster, your Amped Up buff would help her out, but if you're relying on Vision (for example) to Power Drain/Power Burn your opponent's power meter or Spider Man (Stark Enhanced) to Taunt your opponent into using a Special Attack because that's who you happen to have, the Alliance War difficulty was increased (maybe you were relying on a Bleed champion to take down your opponent's health before their power meter built up). Every node gains an additional defensive buff that nullifies the utility of a (fairly) wide array of champions (in the case of Bleed Immune, that encompasses a large number).
    Issue 2: Unfair Play in Alliance Wars
    You really need to look into solutions where punishing an offending player doesn't necessarily punish every member of the Alliance, and punishing offending Alliances doesn't punish the Alliance they play against when their Alliance rating is dropped. One way to potentially mitigate this punishment of non-offending Alliances is to base match-ups upon a combination of factors instead of only war rating, such as basing it off of a new metric of damage dealt versus damage received during a war plus war rating, plus total prestige of all Alliance members... Alliances would get matched up against other Alliances of similar ability and similar war rating instead of just Alliances of similar war rating (regardless of ability). If my Alliance gets punished and our war rating drops, we can kick the snot out of Alliances of lesser ability and work our way back up to our normal reward bracket pretty fast; that's how things function now. The current system punishes Alliances pitted against Alliances that have been playing unfairly.

    I sincerely hope that these comments are not falling on deaf ears. So many contributions to this community come across that way as there is a lack of any sort of "back-and-forth" or targeted response from Kabam employees or moderators.

    Best wishes!

    @Kabam Porkchop
    @Kabam Miike
    @Kabam Lyra
    @Kabam Zibiit
    @Kabam Vydious
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 832 ★★★
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    All this is just another nerf under the guise of diversity. They know we won’t change our attack teams so they just weakened them even more so we time out and die more. Every season they find a way to make war harder and for people to spend more without upping the rewards. I wonder how much longer people are willing to take their BS.

    For the love of everything, THIS IS NOT A NERF!!!!! Stop calling it that. A nerf would a fundamental change to a champ. That is not what is happening here. This only effects AW and not other game mode. Plus these 2 nodes are ONLY FOR SEASON 5 and not beyond. Not a nerf by any means what-so-ever.

    This is flat out a nerf. I’m not arguing semantics with you about it. You’ve proven time and time again that you’ll lap up whatever Kabam gives you and carry their water. They put in a node that takes out multiple champs main abilitie and you don’t think it’s a nerf....

    IT'S FOR 1 SEASON! What don't you understand about that? It's also for only 1 game mode. It's not a nerf period at all. There isn't any semantics to argue.

    Can the nerf/not a nerf crowd silently agree to disagree and quit going around in circles?
  • SgtSlaughter78SgtSlaughter78 Posts: 391 ★★
    Vale84 wrote: »
    Ppl ranking up Carnage and Venom this week gonna love this. 2 years to make them worth something and killed right after. Blade is in good company.

    Really agree with this. Some people in my alliance have been really happy that they can contribute more in wars now by using their venom and they’ve just had the legs cut from under them.
  • Davidson75Davidson75 Posts: 10
    edited October 2018
    Are they going to change where alliances can tank or lose a ton of wars in off season but then when season starts it will be easier for them to advance and play against easier alliances to get higher tier rewards like gold 1 or platinum
  • BeginthEndBeginthEnd Posts: 325
    This entire concept seems to be an attempt to fix the symptom; not the system that created it. Backwards approach?

    I wouldn’t even consider using Colossus, Groot, etc. etc. Even if they were given new abilities like “immune to everything” Or they became the only viable champ to use because, all of a sudden, somebody whispered the magic words and “KABAM!” they’re suddenly better than Blade, AA, Sparky and other top champs.

    I use champs I have fun playing with, that I read about in comics, or ranked up before better champs were released. Even if at a disadvantage. (80% of the time)

    I don’t always use the champs that make my roster what it is, but when I do, I like to enjoy it. Put down the hater-aid. It does not quench your thirst my friend.

    Point is, fix what’s worth fixing. Do it right and follow through with any bugs or cheats that put others ahead of those that worked for it. Then work to create content designed to replace hugely popular messaging apps.

    Blade kills vamipires. They rely on blood to survive. Would be like giving vampires hearts of gold that pumped out huge vats of blood per beat- streaking out their eyes on command like laser beams, blinding Blade and making him puke at the same time.
    He would probably spend some of his immortal years studying to become an astronaut, so he could jump out a shuttle and fly into the sun while screaming WHY GOD WHYYY
  • Why bleed?why not shock or degen
  • sbb75sbb75 Posts: 208
    How can we add more strategy to a fixed / capped scoring system...hmm
    With the same exact 1 option strategy for all during attack..
    Maybe restrict all pots and boosts from AW.?? No then some alliances won’t get 100%.
    How about adding the same exact node to All defenders/ eliminate on the most common abilities and an entire mastery. Almost a entire class
    Yes yes that is it .gane changer
  • IsItthoughIsItthough Posts: 224 ★★
    I’m confused is the global buff going to be able to be taking down? Is it attached to the boss? Are you really telling me that for a full month and a half of war seasons that my AA that took an generic gem and a bunch of resources is pointless. Is every defender bleed immune. This is a joke right?
  • Demonzfyre wrote: »
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    All this is just another nerf under the guise of diversity. They know we won’t change our attack teams so they just weakened them even more so we time out and die more. Every season they find a way to make war harder and for people to spend more without upping the rewards. I wonder how much longer people are willing to take their BS.

    For the love of everything, THIS IS NOT A NERF!!!!! Stop calling it that. A nerf would a fundamental change to a champ. That is not what is happening here. This only effects AW and not other game mode. Plus these 2 nodes are ONLY FOR SEASON 5 and not beyond. Not a nerf by any means what-so-ever.

    This is flat out a nerf. I’m not arguing semantics with you about it. You’ve proven time and time again that you’ll lap up whatever Kabam gives you and carry their water. They put in a node that takes out multiple champs main abilitie and you don’t think it’s a nerf....

    IT'S FOR 1 SEASON! What don't you understand about that? It's also for only 1 game mode. It's not a nerf period at all. There isn't any semantics to argue.

    It’s for this season. Then next season they have a whole different set of nerfs. I don’t think it shocks anyone that they recruit a bunch of yes men for their little panel. Do you even ask for **** anymore or do you like for them to give it to you dry?

    I was one of the players on their little panel, and I believe it is highly unlikely you can find someone that has expressed more criticism of more specific implementation details of Alliance War than I.
  • Pillar: Keep alliance wars dynamic.

    I have become a bit disenfranchised due to the ever decreasing value of my favourite champs. I would like to see a commitment to a more cyclical nerf-buff changes to all champs so that I can enjoy them again once their value improves.

    For example: if a new Dr. Strange film comes out, I would like to se a significant buff to DS so that, for a time his health steal becomes OP. This would give me a warm fuzzy feeling that the effort I spent in ranking him was not wasted.

    I would also like to see that the synergies in war defence have some effect. I originally built a team around those but it clearly has no value.
  • PaytoPlayPaytoPlay Posts: 765 ★★★
    Narcuul wrote: »
    I’m glade I never brought up my AA. You guys hate him.

    I am just glad I never awakened him with my generic.
This discussion has been closed.