This should be impossible in a top-down matching system. And I can't even imagine how you can screw up top-down match making.
I don't think they should use a top-down matching system as each war you'll most likely be facing the same opponents (at the top tier).
So you have your full set of alliances that opted into war. Sort it by war rating (maybe other variables), take a subset (size depending) and randomize that match-up.
Everywhere but at the top, that is what you'd be doing. For almost every war rating, there are lots of alliances with the same rating. So you'd look for a random match among all equal candidates. But at the top, that's trickier. If the top alliance is rated 3700, the second is rated 3400, and third place is rated 3100 (just for example), reaching past second place to match 3700 and 3100 just to "mix it up" isn't necessarily a good trade off if you're only matching by rating.
I suggested a matching system that avoids this problem entirely. During the off season, match top to bottom. But during the season, match only the first war top to bottom. In all successive wars, continue to match top to bottom but only between alliances with the same win/loss record. In other words, #1 faces #2 in war one. But in war two, #1 will face the winner of #3 vs #4 regardless of rating. Winners continue to face winners, so you won't face the same alliance over and over at the top. In the middle you could face the same alliance that has the same four and three record as you, but there's also going to be a lot more alliances to match against down there.
This turns the season into a pseudo-tournament. Rating is basically used for initial seeding.
@Kabam Miike your original post said the new matching system will help to ensure alliances matched with other alliance with similar capabilities - obviously this doesnt happen.
Minimize collusion: well, practically people are still able arrange wars as the enlistment period is the same as the old start matchmaking. You will be matched at any point in this window 😆
So what is the improvement of this new system compared to the old one?
The new start times are ridiculous. We very purposely started at 8pm eastern previously as that's what works for people's schedules. We are all adults with jobs, some of whom can't have devices on the job. Now the start time is like 8+ hours earlier. Which more importantly means the end time will be occurring when many can't even be around. Not being able to customize a start time is extreme BS and a deal-breaker as far as taking part in AW goes.
It's better in the long run to see all the issues now so they can be addressed before season.
No one is saying anything different. No one wanted this new system to roll out at the start of a season. A lot of people have objections to the system period. Saying we should be happy the changes are rolling out now instead of at the start of a season is like saying we should be thankful we were struck by a car in a hospital parking lot instead of a shopping mall. That's a fortunate circumstance, not a happy one. I wouldn't be thanking the driver for their timing.
I'm just as confused as everyone else. As usual, most of the info that has been sent out -- whether on this forum or forwarded via MCOC Infobot or other sources -- is NOT as clear as it might have been intended. In fact, I don't know what to tell my alliance until after things happen, because it's too confusing to explain.
However, in Kabam Mike's message above, he says:
(1) As soon as 2 Alliances are matched, the Defence Placement Phase starts.
(2) Once the Defence Placement Phase ends, the 24hr attack phase begins.
Soooo, which is it? Does war start EXACTLY at 11am PST, or does it start after placement ends...which apparently depends on the time matchmaking pairs two alliances....which is how it used to be.
At least clear that up -- that part should be easy -- and then maybe I can better guide my alliance members and help them adjust. Unfortunately though, as others have stated, either way this new system is going to negatively affect LOTS of alliances that have members from all over the world. In fact, this morning when I woke up, the very first message I read on Line was from a member angry AT ME for starting today's war when I did, complaining that I should have started it at a different time...despite the fact that I have ZERO control over exactly when wars start. Kabam completely controls that now, by forcing *everyone* into a very small window.
Reminds me of the Version 12 update. Kabam decides something must change because THEY don't like it, then they push it out there and force us to adapt, and then -- surprise! -- they're forced to react to the angry masses. As always, not very well thought out.
Without sounding negative , what if you changed the new matchmaking system to the higher alliances that need it? Gold 1 and below don’t really need his system because we always seem to get different matches all the time. It’s the upper echelons that need this fair system.
This combined the notions of separate AW "divisions" with different match rules, the idea of voluntary opt-in to the high division, synchronized start times for the higher division, and matching based on win/loss record in the season, not war rating.
AWA should NEVER start at 7am PST!!! Also, looks like your new and NOT improved system benefits the 1%. Easy game, easy life, easy wins, easy rewards. Must be nice.
Wipe all the ratings and start out fresh, this is ridiculous! Through all the cheating, backstabbing, shenanigans, they stay at the top every season and now this new matchmaking keeps them there. Just start over. ABORT AW!! Bring it back after its been thoroughly tested, top to bottom. Every season, its been getting worse and worse and this doesn't show any signs of changing. Where is the even playing field? Why do you choose to reduce your player base by making something so bad, your players choose to quit the game altogether?
4 major problems that I see, no changes suggested by Kabam yet:
• You've clarified the random staggered starting times. Still not ideal as most alliances have members in multiple timezones. This interferes with work, sleep, school, life... Combined with the linked nodes in AW, this can be a huge change day to day for some teams.
• You've clarified the timing of adding new members, but haven't addressed any of the other issues surrounding the new restrictions, basically putting leadership groups in a very uncomfortable position unnecessarily because of this new restrictive system. They way it is now, any player that needs to be replaced for any reason, needs(?) to be kicked after finishing attack and before war actually ends in many cases, to ensure the best interests of the other 29, so that another player may be brought in and the alliance can re-enlist in war in time, and play with 30. Conversely, players may choose not to tell leadership they are leaving to not jeopardize their rewards, putting the other 29 at a major disadvantage in their next war. And then there's AQ to worry about too! Only a 24 hour period that lines up with AQ 3 out of 7 weeks? Why put leaders and members in this awkward position, where players will be deprived of rewards they earned and creating conflict where there was none in the previous system.
• Starting wars 4 to 10 hours earlier than before, and all wars starting 4 to 0 hours earlier than ever before. Unaddressed still I think. And seemingly senseless? Many alliances started at different times for very strategic reasons, unique to each team. Sure, there are 24 timezones and still 24 hours in attack, but it simply isn't that simple as anyone competing in AW knows. This is another issue complicated by linked nodes in AW. I'm not against linked nodes, I like the teamwork needed, but they really complicate timezones, and many teams have gone to great efforts to make timezones work in the old system which allowed more flexibility than you allow now.
• The ridiculous uneven matchups still being generated by your system. Seriously guys, some think it's worse than before lol. But still no comment...
Please respond to our concerns as quickly as possible. I understand you must craft your responses carefully as to not accidentally provide the community with any more misinformation, but please provide us with more information on how you plan to address these issues soon. Your silence only brings more frustration. We are eagerly awaiting your solutions.
Can we just please scrap this system and go back to the old one asap @Kabam Miike clearly no one likes the new system at all.
I like it. I know others that do. There are definitely things that need to be tweaked. In the end, players have shown they shouldn't be in charge of matching. I'd much rather go thru growing pains to get to a better system than going back to such easy manipulation of the system.
It's also pretty funny to watch people completely lose their **** over one meaningless war.
I like the original concept. It's nice in theory. However, it's been shown there's some major oversights timing wise. It's been shown the matchmaking system is off. While you see this as a 'meaningless war', for some, it's not. Some are trying to increase their war rate to be in a better position come start of the Season. Getting matched in an impossible win situation due to the system not performing correctly is grounds for being upset. Being fed conflicting information for almost a week is grounds for being upset.
Now, I do agree that I'd rather see this grow. Which requires dealing with some less than ideal situations vs back pedaling to the old system. For sure. However, seeing as how this was a clear failure to launch, changes should be implemented ASAP, or the Season start time postponed for at LEAST 1 more week. Will give them time to fix this properly and allow Alliances directly effected by poor matchmaking time to bounce back. Going into the Season like THIS is not right.
Does anyone believe within these 3 wars this will suddenly sort itself out or provide some magical answer via data? I certainly don't. That might lead to 3 wars going sideways for some. Would it be ok for people to be upset at that juncture? @chunkyb Seriously, I'm interested to hear what you think. Call me skeptical, but I just don't see the system fixing itself. Nor do I see it being rectified without it being shutdown and restarted post repair. Simply monitoring is essentially watching and doing nothing in the hopes the data will provide answers.
The system timing needs to be altered. That's as clear as day. @DNA3000 you hit the nail on the head multiple times today. Wars NEVER started/ended this early. Ever. So clearly the timing needs to be altered. Matchmaking needs to be investigated and fixed. Until both situations are properly addressed and fixed to the point the majority feel we can proceed into the season with some semblance of fair play.... the Season shouldn't be launched. Doing anything less will lead to a mess. As I previously asked, how many messages will it take before they take us seriously?
Taking action in the form of non-participation is an option, but a bad one. AW is our primary source for Loyalty. No Loyalty = No Maps 5-7. I'm sure many could miss a week as their Alliance treasury is stocked (like our Alliance), but not everyone's is. In many respects we're being put over a barrel with this current situation. For some it's screwed if you do, screwed if you don't. That's not right, and is cause for concern.
Typically I'd laugh it off, shrug, and say it's just another day in the world of MCoC. This time it's a bit more alarming if you ask me. To get told they don't plan to do anything but watch currently is alarming. To know there's 2 more wars that will be as is, is alarming. Next matchup for anyone could be just as horrid as some pictured prior. That's not right at all. The sheer lack of respect displayed is sad. You cannot claim to care and do nothing at the same time. It's contradictory. Caring is displayed through actions, not words. We want to see something done. I cannot find 1 reply that explicitly states all is well, let's go with it as is.
All agree, there's some problems here. Great idea overall. It is. I like how this could help level the playing field. However, it could very well end up leveling the playing field in a completely different context. All we can do now is wait and hope our suggestions are taken into consideration. Sad truth of today.
Here’s some additional clarity to our previous announcement regarding the new timelines for Alliance Wars.
NEW MATCHMAKING SYSTEM - CLARIFICATION There are 3 Enlistment Periods each week. Alliances must opt-in to their next war during these times.
Enlistment will begin Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday from 3PM PST. (7PM UTC)
When your Alliance enlists, the Matchmaking window will start.
The Matchmaking window is from 11AM to 3PM PST (7PM UTC - 11PM UTC).
You may be matched at any point within this window, however the Matchmaking system prioritizes Alliances with higher prestige and war ratings.
Once matched the game will send the matched Alliances a push notification, please turn your notifications on.
As soon as 2 Alliances are matched, the Defence Placement Phase starts.
Once the Defence Placement Phase ends, the 24hr attack phase begins.
Trying to get some clarification:
ENLISTMENT has a specific start and end time: 3p PST to 11a PST (11p to 7a UTC) (although for some reason, @Kabam Miike wrote "3p PST (7p UTC)" instead of "3p PST (11p UTC)")
MATCHMAKING has a specific start and end time: 11a PST to 3p PST (7p UTC to 11p UTC); during this 4-hour matchmaking window, as soon as a match is found, AWD starts.
According to Kabam's own infographic: AWD is 20 hrs max and always ends NO LATER THAN 11a PST and AWA is 24 hrs max and always starts NO EARLIER THAN 11a PST
As an example, we ENLIST and our MATCHMAKING starts at 11a PST; if our match is made at 2p PST, that means AWD also starts at 2p PST. Does this mean that:
1) AWA starts exactly 24 hrs later, at 2p PST?
or
2) AWA starts exactly 20 hrs later, at 10a PST (because according to your infographic, AWD is 20 hrs long, period, and has specific start and end times of 3p PST to 11a PST)?
or
3) AWA starts 21 hrs later, at 11a PST, because according to your infographic, no AWA starts before 11a PST?
Please disregard the infographic if it is making it unclear. Your Defense phase will begin when a match is found and will last 20 hours, then your Attack phase will begin.
I wasn’t terribly thrilled by the fact that we can’t choose our own war start time... a time that is most convenient for each alliance and also convenient for the alliance you get matched with seeing as how they would also be looking for a match around the same time as you but c’est la vie. At least it was still easy to organize around being that wars would always start at the same time (my initial understanding is that they would always start at 11 PST)
Now we know that isn’t true. Not only do they not start at the same time but they can also start at a time that is terribly inconvenient for some people. A time where it doesn’t allow them to be available for the end of wars. In my case, due to circumstances completely out of my control, I won’t be available for the ENTIRE second half of the wars (12 hours) on 3 days each week assuming, by chance, we get matched right away.
Seems to me the only reason we have to suffer through this new system in the first place is because the top alliances found a way to game the system And, in attempt to “cherry pick” their next opponent, were entering matchmaking phase late and not finding a match thereby missing out on points, dropping rank, not getting master... sure, I understand there was also some legitimate matchmaking issues that needed correcting. But at the end of the day, these issues were really only affecting the very top alliances in any meaningful way. You implemented a new system that addresses concerns of the very top alliances but in doing so you frustrate, or create hardship for the other 99% of players that weren’t affected by the problem in the first place.
Whatever. There was a problem, you’ve made a good faith effort to resolve it with this new system; ok... everybody has to enter this 4 hour matchmaking phase at the same time. Why exactly can’t you just have it so that all alliances start their wars at the same time like so many of us believed to be the case in the first place? Everybody starts at 11 PST or even the same time as AQ seeing as how we are already used to that time constraint as it is?? still earlier then my alliance prefers but the consistency would be better than nothing.
Here’s some additional clarity to our previous announcement regarding the new timelines for Alliance Wars.
NEW MATCHMAKING SYSTEM - CLARIFICATION There are 3 Enlistment Periods each week. Alliances must opt-in to their next war during these times.
Enlistment will begin Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday from 3PM PST. (7PM UTC)
When your Alliance enlists, the Matchmaking window will start.
The Matchmaking window is from 11AM to 3PM PST (7PM UTC - 11PM UTC).
You may be matched at any point within this window, however the Matchmaking system prioritizes Alliances with higher prestige and war ratings.
Once matched the game will send the matched Alliances a push notification, please turn your notifications on.
As soon as 2 Alliances are matched, the Defence Placement Phase starts.
Once the Defence Placement Phase ends, the 24hr attack phase begins.
Trying to get some clarification:
ENLISTMENT has a specific start and end time: 3p PST to 11a PST (11p to 7a UTC) (although for some reason, @Kabam Miike wrote "3p PST (7p UTC)" instead of "3p PST (11p UTC)")
MATCHMAKING has a specific start and end time: 11a PST to 3p PST (7p UTC to 11p UTC); during this 4-hour matchmaking window, as soon as a match is found, AWD starts.
According to Kabam's own infographic: AWD is 20 hrs max and always ends NO LATER THAN 11a PST and AWA is 24 hrs max and always starts NO EARLIER THAN 11a PST
As an example, we ENLIST and our MATCHMAKING starts at 11a PST; if our match is made at 2p PST, that means AWD also starts at 2p PST. Does this mean that:
1) AWA starts exactly 24 hrs later, at 2p PST?
or
2) AWA starts exactly 20 hrs later, at 10a PST (because according to your infographic, AWD is 20 hrs long, period, and has specific start and end times of 3p PST to 11a PST)?
or
3) AWA starts 21 hrs later, at 11a PST, because according to your infographic, no AWA starts before 11a PST?
Please disregard the infographic if it is making it unclear. Your Defense phase will begin when a match is found and will last 20 hours, then your Attack phase will begin.
So the clarification, then, is that AWA ALWAYS starts EXACTLY 20 hours after AWD starts, @Kabam Lyra? Thanks in advance.
First war with new matchmaking. We have 2200 range AW rating and match 2500 range opponents. Ok, can live with that. We are T4, our war home screen says T4 our rewards say T4 yet the nodes are from T3...,
First war with new matchmaking. We have 2200 range AW rating and match 2500 range opponents. Ok, can live with that. We are T4, our war home screen says T4 our rewards say T4 yet the nodes are from T3...,
Why is the full AW system live while we are essentially beta testing the new matchmaking system?
Players cannot join wars which hurt both them and their alliance.
Timeframes are different than advertised which severely impacts players' ability to play
Timeframes impact leaderships' ability to coordinate defenses
Meanwhile, everyone's war rating is still at stake. Rewards are still based on results that are impacted by the new system. We do have the benefit of not being in the middle of an AW season, but our war rating (which is still a big part of points scoring due to multipliers) is affected.
We may lose a war because the system was bugged and didn't allow our new players to join. Our war rating will be reduced and only get participation rewards due to no fault of our own.
If you want to roll out big changes like this, make it a full beta and eliminate all gains/penalties.
Also, if all alliances are registered for the next war in advance… Why does it take four hours to match all the alliances? I mean, it’s not like you guys are doing this by hand. Or are you for top alliances? It’s logarithm calculated...? Shouldn’t your “Abacus” crunch The numbers in a matter of seconds?
+1 to all the others that are very unhappy with this new system. War starting so much earlier sucks. This makes it much more difficult to recruit and transition new alliance members. It makes it more difficult to coordinate defense and attack between members in different timezones as those time periods are less flexible. Some of us will now be asleep when war begins and ends. It makes it more difficult to use certain champs in AQ during AW defense phase. (Many of us get through AQ quickly enough to get some use from our defensive champs even during placement phase)
Enlistment is great if it provides more fair and even matchups, but we really need more flexibility with AW start time. Or at least make AW and AQ start at the same time.
Hi. First post. I hope it is a good one. I am the type of person who would typically have thousands of posts by now but i have resisted the urge to register on the forums for nearly 2 years. All the many head scratching moments and various frustrations (android user here) ive let them all go. Not this one.
I coordinate a battle group with members from
New Zeeland
Kuwait
Nigeria
Greece
Egypt
England
New Jersey
And California x2.
Our lane assignments are contingent on availability and knowing what links can go down when. We have split the traditional lanes 3 and 4 because our Nigerian was always asleep when our wars started. Lane 3 and 4 would crossover further in the map to accomodate schedules.
It was hard enough to coordinate when we chose the start time. I feel like it will be impossible when it changes every time going forward.
I hear complaints about how so and so cant set a defense before it starts and how this is having issues with recruits etc. I can live with those challenges. I cant live with this start time randomizer and it would be a shame to say to a couple membeds your schedule doesn't work for us any more. Youve been here a year but we have to let you go.
I have 2 suggestions. Unlink the middle lanes. If you feel that makes the map too easy add another node or 25% hp or something. The flexibility to move when you're awake and have the energy would alleviate a lot of the stress people are expressing.
The second suggestion is to enlist for a specific start time if the servers cant handle all wars starting simultaneously.
A third suggestion would be set start times for each war tier. Overlap tiers 1-3, 4-5, 6-7 etc based on the map. Yes this will create more failed matchups. That is a better alternative to what we have now.
I was under the impression the placement phase would be 20 to 24 hours depending on how quickly you matched and the attack phase for everyone would be 2pm eastern 11am pacific. Forget emergency maintenance and updates not in the app store. This is a failure of many magnitudes greater than that for someone trying to coordinate 10 people in 8 different time zones.
I cant believe they have broken wars so badly that most summoners are blowing up about it,
In an attempt to fix matchmaking,
But by looking at some of the matchups it seems nothing has happened.
Looks like they broke wars for nothing.
Atleast @Kabam Miike apologised for giving wrong info.
Here is the thing that really really gets me. This change was driven to fix a competition issue that affects less than 0.1% of the alliances that play this game.
I get that kabam is a for profit company. I work for a for profit accounting firm. We make money by providing services to our customers and the reality is some are worth more than others. That 0.1% is in the group that it is in becsuse they are a material importance to the game's ecological system. Thats OK.
You still fixed the sliver in your finger on this one by amputating an arm (must have been Aegon). As a platinum 3 or gold 1 member i am sorry but what the top 20 alliances do wont affect me or the vast majority of everyone else who plays this game. It isn’t necessary to fix their problems by creating issues for an also not insignificant portion of the people who play this game.
Timing is definitely an issue. The freedom to start at convenient times for individual alliances to plan around work schedules and such has disappeared. It takes away too much choice and takes a bit of fun out of the game.
What is the point of making the defense section 20 hours instead of 24 hours if a match can be found near 11 am pst. It made sense with the assumption that all wars would start attack at 11 am PST. I am sorry for the bluntness, but this seems DUMB. The game has been based on war at most as early as 11 am PST, now for basically no reason at all they can start at 7 am PST? That's a significant change in schedule for like no reason at all.
Here’s some additional clarity to our previous announcement regarding the new timelines for Alliance Wars.
NEW MATCHMAKING SYSTEM - CLARIFICATION There are 3 Enlistment Periods each week. Alliances must opt-in to their next war during these times.
Enlistment will begin Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday from 3PM PST. (7PM UTC)
When your Alliance enlists, the Matchmaking window will start.
The Matchmaking window is from 11AM to 3PM PST (7PM UTC - 11PM UTC).
You may be matched at any point within this window, however the Matchmaking system prioritizes Alliances with higher prestige and war ratings.
Once matched the game will send the matched Alliances a push notification, please turn your notifications on.
As soon as 2 Alliances are matched, the Defence Placement Phase starts.
Once the Defence Placement Phase ends, the 24hr attack phase begins.
Trying to get some clarification:
ENLISTMENT has a specific start and end time: 3p PST to 11a PST (11p to 7a UTC) (although for some reason, @Kabam Miike wrote "3p PST (7p UTC)" instead of "3p PST (11p UTC)")
MATCHMAKING has a specific start and end time: 11a PST to 3p PST (7p UTC to 11p UTC); during this 4-hour matchmaking window, as soon as a match is found, AWD starts.
According to Kabam's own infographic: AWD is 20 hrs max and always ends NO LATER THAN 11a PST and AWA is 24 hrs max and always starts NO EARLIER THAN 11a PST
As an example, we ENLIST and our MATCHMAKING starts at 11a PST; if our match is made at 2p PST, that means AWD also starts at 2p PST. Does this mean that:
1) AWA starts exactly 24 hrs later, at 2p PST?
or
2) AWA starts exactly 20 hrs later, at 10a PST (because according to your infographic, AWD is 20 hrs long, period, and has specific start and end times of 3p PST to 11a PST)?
or
3) AWA starts 21 hrs later, at 11a PST, because according to your infographic, no AWA starts before 11a PST?
Please disregard the infographic if it is making it unclear. Your Defense phase will begin when a match is found and will last 20 hours, then your Attack phase will begin.
Tell me... what change yours „new matchmaking system”?? Because what I see and I think all players, new matchmaking system doesn’t change anything except we start our AW attack much earlier than usual...
@Drooped2 I would say that’s a fair point but this game is all about things going live simultaneously. Events, AQ, Old matchmaking started at a specific time… The minute it went live probably had the most server requests.
So, yeah. A small start up gaming company that would be valid.
And even if it was the case… Four hours? It’s a computer not a delivery service. Computers work on seconds, milliseconds, nano… You could probably satisfactorily stagger blocks of the entire community within five minutes. Call it 30. So have all start times between 10:30 and 11 pst.
Also, if all alliances aren’t are registered for the next war in advance… Why does it take four hours to match all the alliances? I mean, it’s not like you guys are doing this by hand. Or are you for top alliances? It’s logarithm calculated...? Shouldn’t your “Abacus” crunch The numbers in a matter of seconds?
As a server maintenance guy I stagger jobs alot in case something goes haywire I'd rather it not effect every job.
So theres 5k wars(again I have no idea how many wars happen a day)
Would you rather have that many failures or a staggered system so you have say 1666 to reschedule and keep to your advertised timeline
Its basic delivery of service.
Ups does it to they tell me my package will be here Friday it's always thursday. The window covers them in case of a failure in the matrix
Based on the data I track during the season, a rough estimate for the number of wars per day is about 13,000. A four hour match window means they are finding and starting about one match per second (they could be doing so faster because they aren't necessarily using the entire four hour match window at the moment). Generating the match is almost certainly not the limiting factor here: launching the war is.
It's better in the long run to see all the issues now so they can be addressed before season.
No one is saying anything different. No one wanted this new system to roll out at the start of a season. A lot of people have objections to the system period. Saying we should be happy the changes are rolling out now instead of at the start of a season is like saying we should be thankful we were struck by a car in a hospital parking lot instead of a shopping mall. That's a fortunate circumstance, not a happy one. I wouldn't be thanking the driver for their timing.
If you say so.
But imo, it's more like you're stuck in a car on the side of the road after narrowly avoiding death in a 20 car pile up. You're not where you want to be, but you're in a better place than you could be. Now, to start work on solving this step.
This is ****. I can't play alliance war while I am working. it's hard enough to to try to start alliance quest while I work. Also, why is there not some kind of clear and concise in game documentation to explain this all? Reading through 20 plus pages of forum posts should not be a requirement to know what changed in the game and only makes your confusing and unnecessary changes seem even more confusing and unnecessary. Furthermore the matchups seem to be even more unbalanced than they were in the old system where at least we could pick our start times ensuring people could actually participate without interrupting their real lives too much.
Comments
Everywhere but at the top, that is what you'd be doing. For almost every war rating, there are lots of alliances with the same rating. So you'd look for a random match among all equal candidates. But at the top, that's trickier. If the top alliance is rated 3700, the second is rated 3400, and third place is rated 3100 (just for example), reaching past second place to match 3700 and 3100 just to "mix it up" isn't necessarily a good trade off if you're only matching by rating.
I suggested a matching system that avoids this problem entirely. During the off season, match top to bottom. But during the season, match only the first war top to bottom. In all successive wars, continue to match top to bottom but only between alliances with the same win/loss record. In other words, #1 faces #2 in war one. But in war two, #1 will face the winner of #3 vs #4 regardless of rating. Winners continue to face winners, so you won't face the same alliance over and over at the top. In the middle you could face the same alliance that has the same four and three record as you, but there's also going to be a lot more alliances to match against down there.
This turns the season into a pseudo-tournament. Rating is basically used for initial seeding.
Minimize collusion: well, practically people are still able arrange wars as the enlistment period is the same as the old start matchmaking. You will be matched at any point in this window 😆
So what is the improvement of this new system compared to the old one?
No one is saying anything different. No one wanted this new system to roll out at the start of a season. A lot of people have objections to the system period. Saying we should be happy the changes are rolling out now instead of at the start of a season is like saying we should be thankful we were struck by a car in a hospital parking lot instead of a shopping mall. That's a fortunate circumstance, not a happy one. I wouldn't be thanking the driver for their timing.
For example, in the article at this link (https://playcontestofchampions.com/new-opt-matchmaking-alliance-wars/), the message CLEARLY states that "Wars will begin at 11am PST (7pm UTC) on Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday."
Doesn't say "around 11am". It says *AT* 11am!
However, in Kabam Mike's message above, he says:
(1) As soon as 2 Alliances are matched, the Defence Placement Phase starts.
(2) Once the Defence Placement Phase ends, the 24hr attack phase begins.
Soooo, which is it? Does war start EXACTLY at 11am PST, or does it start after placement ends...which apparently depends on the time matchmaking pairs two alliances....which is how it used to be.
At least clear that up -- that part should be easy -- and then maybe I can better guide my alliance members and help them adjust. Unfortunately though, as others have stated, either way this new system is going to negatively affect LOTS of alliances that have members from all over the world. In fact, this morning when I woke up, the very first message I read on Line was from a member angry AT ME for starting today's war when I did, complaining that I should have started it at a different time...despite the fact that I have ZERO control over exactly when wars start. Kabam completely controls that now, by forcing *everyone* into a very small window.
Reminds me of the Version 12 update. Kabam decides something must change because THEY don't like it, then they push it out there and force us to adapt, and then -- surprise! -- they're forced to react to the angry masses. As always, not very well thought out.
I suggested something like that a couple times in the past, most recently that I can recall here: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/665551/#Comment_665551
This combined the notions of separate AW "divisions" with different match rules, the idea of voluntary opt-in to the high division, synchronized start times for the higher division, and matching based on win/loss record in the season, not war rating.
Wipe all the ratings and start out fresh, this is ridiculous! Through all the cheating, backstabbing, shenanigans, they stay at the top every season and now this new matchmaking keeps them there. Just start over. ABORT AW!! Bring it back after its been thoroughly tested, top to bottom. Every season, its been getting worse and worse and this doesn't show any signs of changing. Where is the even playing field? Why do you choose to reduce your player base by making something so bad, your players choose to quit the game altogether?
You are correct, and this has been updated.
4 major problems that I see, no changes suggested by Kabam yet:
• You've clarified the random staggered starting times. Still not ideal as most alliances have members in multiple timezones. This interferes with work, sleep, school, life... Combined with the linked nodes in AW, this can be a huge change day to day for some teams.
• You've clarified the timing of adding new members, but haven't addressed any of the other issues surrounding the new restrictions, basically putting leadership groups in a very uncomfortable position unnecessarily because of this new restrictive system. They way it is now, any player that needs to be replaced for any reason, needs(?) to be kicked after finishing attack and before war actually ends in many cases, to ensure the best interests of the other 29, so that another player may be brought in and the alliance can re-enlist in war in time, and play with 30. Conversely, players may choose not to tell leadership they are leaving to not jeopardize their rewards, putting the other 29 at a major disadvantage in their next war. And then there's AQ to worry about too! Only a 24 hour period that lines up with AQ 3 out of 7 weeks? Why put leaders and members in this awkward position, where players will be deprived of rewards they earned and creating conflict where there was none in the previous system.
• Starting wars 4 to 10 hours earlier than before, and all wars starting 4 to 0 hours earlier than ever before. Unaddressed still I think. And seemingly senseless? Many alliances started at different times for very strategic reasons, unique to each team. Sure, there are 24 timezones and still 24 hours in attack, but it simply isn't that simple as anyone competing in AW knows. This is another issue complicated by linked nodes in AW. I'm not against linked nodes, I like the teamwork needed, but they really complicate timezones, and many teams have gone to great efforts to make timezones work in the old system which allowed more flexibility than you allow now.
• The ridiculous uneven matchups still being generated by your system. Seriously guys, some think it's worse than before lol. But still no comment...
Please respond to our concerns as quickly as possible. I understand you must craft your responses carefully as to not accidentally provide the community with any more misinformation, but please provide us with more information on how you plan to address these issues soon. Your silence only brings more frustration. We are eagerly awaiting your solutions.
I like the original concept. It's nice in theory. However, it's been shown there's some major oversights timing wise. It's been shown the matchmaking system is off. While you see this as a 'meaningless war', for some, it's not. Some are trying to increase their war rate to be in a better position come start of the Season. Getting matched in an impossible win situation due to the system not performing correctly is grounds for being upset. Being fed conflicting information for almost a week is grounds for being upset.
Now, I do agree that I'd rather see this grow. Which requires dealing with some less than ideal situations vs back pedaling to the old system. For sure. However, seeing as how this was a clear failure to launch, changes should be implemented ASAP, or the Season start time postponed for at LEAST 1 more week. Will give them time to fix this properly and allow Alliances directly effected by poor matchmaking time to bounce back. Going into the Season like THIS is not right.
Does anyone believe within these 3 wars this will suddenly sort itself out or provide some magical answer via data? I certainly don't. That might lead to 3 wars going sideways for some. Would it be ok for people to be upset at that juncture? @chunkyb Seriously, I'm interested to hear what you think. Call me skeptical, but I just don't see the system fixing itself. Nor do I see it being rectified without it being shutdown and restarted post repair. Simply monitoring is essentially watching and doing nothing in the hopes the data will provide answers.
The system timing needs to be altered. That's as clear as day. @DNA3000 you hit the nail on the head multiple times today. Wars NEVER started/ended this early. Ever. So clearly the timing needs to be altered. Matchmaking needs to be investigated and fixed. Until both situations are properly addressed and fixed to the point the majority feel we can proceed into the season with some semblance of fair play.... the Season shouldn't be launched. Doing anything less will lead to a mess. As I previously asked, how many messages will it take before they take us seriously?
Taking action in the form of non-participation is an option, but a bad one. AW is our primary source for Loyalty. No Loyalty = No Maps 5-7. I'm sure many could miss a week as their Alliance treasury is stocked (like our Alliance), but not everyone's is. In many respects we're being put over a barrel with this current situation. For some it's screwed if you do, screwed if you don't. That's not right, and is cause for concern.
Typically I'd laugh it off, shrug, and say it's just another day in the world of MCoC. This time it's a bit more alarming if you ask me. To get told they don't plan to do anything but watch currently is alarming. To know there's 2 more wars that will be as is, is alarming. Next matchup for anyone could be just as horrid as some pictured prior. That's not right at all. The sheer lack of respect displayed is sad. You cannot claim to care and do nothing at the same time. It's contradictory. Caring is displayed through actions, not words. We want to see something done. I cannot find 1 reply that explicitly states all is well, let's go with it as is.
All agree, there's some problems here. Great idea overall. It is. I like how this could help level the playing field. However, it could very well end up leveling the playing field in a completely different context. All we can do now is wait and hope our suggestions are taken into consideration. Sad truth of today.
Please disregard the infographic if it is making it unclear. Your Defense phase will begin when a match is found and will last 20 hours, then your Attack phase will begin.
Now we know that isn’t true. Not only do they not start at the same time but they can also start at a time that is terribly inconvenient for some people. A time where it doesn’t allow them to be available for the end of wars. In my case, due to circumstances completely out of my control, I won’t be available for the ENTIRE second half of the wars (12 hours) on 3 days each week assuming, by chance, we get matched right away.
Seems to me the only reason we have to suffer through this new system in the first place is because the top alliances found a way to game the system And, in attempt to “cherry pick” their next opponent, were entering matchmaking phase late and not finding a match thereby missing out on points, dropping rank, not getting master... sure, I understand there was also some legitimate matchmaking issues that needed correcting. But at the end of the day, these issues were really only affecting the very top alliances in any meaningful way. You implemented a new system that addresses concerns of the very top alliances but in doing so you frustrate, or create hardship for the other 99% of players that weren’t affected by the problem in the first place.
Whatever. There was a problem, you’ve made a good faith effort to resolve it with this new system; ok... everybody has to enter this 4 hour matchmaking phase at the same time. Why exactly can’t you just have it so that all alliances start their wars at the same time like so many of us believed to be the case in the first place? Everybody starts at 11 PST or even the same time as AQ seeing as how we are already used to that time constraint as it is?? still earlier then my alliance prefers but the consistency would be better than nothing.
So the clarification, then, is that AWA ALWAYS starts EXACTLY 20 hours after AWD starts, @Kabam Lyra? Thanks in advance.
Players cannot join wars which hurt both them and their alliance.
Timeframes are different than advertised which severely impacts players' ability to play
Timeframes impact leaderships' ability to coordinate defenses
Meanwhile, everyone's war rating is still at stake. Rewards are still based on results that are impacted by the new system. We do have the benefit of not being in the middle of an AW season, but our war rating (which is still a big part of points scoring due to multipliers) is affected.
We may lose a war because the system was bugged and didn't allow our new players to join. Our war rating will be reduced and only get participation rewards due to no fault of our own.
If you want to roll out big changes like this, make it a full beta and eliminate all gains/penalties.
Enlistment is great if it provides more fair and even matchups, but we really need more flexibility with AW start time. Or at least make AW and AQ start at the same time.
I coordinate a battle group with members from
New Zeeland
Kuwait
Nigeria
Greece
Egypt
England
New Jersey
And California x2.
Our lane assignments are contingent on availability and knowing what links can go down when. We have split the traditional lanes 3 and 4 because our Nigerian was always asleep when our wars started. Lane 3 and 4 would crossover further in the map to accomodate schedules.
It was hard enough to coordinate when we chose the start time. I feel like it will be impossible when it changes every time going forward.
I hear complaints about how so and so cant set a defense before it starts and how this is having issues with recruits etc. I can live with those challenges. I cant live with this start time randomizer and it would be a shame to say to a couple membeds your schedule doesn't work for us any more. Youve been here a year but we have to let you go.
I have 2 suggestions. Unlink the middle lanes. If you feel that makes the map too easy add another node or 25% hp or something. The flexibility to move when you're awake and have the energy would alleviate a lot of the stress people are expressing.
The second suggestion is to enlist for a specific start time if the servers cant handle all wars starting simultaneously.
A third suggestion would be set start times for each war tier. Overlap tiers 1-3, 4-5, 6-7 etc based on the map. Yes this will create more failed matchups. That is a better alternative to what we have now.
I was under the impression the placement phase would be 20 to 24 hours depending on how quickly you matched and the attack phase for everyone would be 2pm eastern 11am pacific. Forget emergency maintenance and updates not in the app store. This is a failure of many magnitudes greater than that for someone trying to coordinate 10 people in 8 different time zones.
In an attempt to fix matchmaking,
But by looking at some of the matchups it seems nothing has happened.
Looks like they broke wars for nothing.
Atleast @Kabam Miike apologised for giving wrong info.
I get that kabam is a for profit company. I work for a for profit accounting firm. We make money by providing services to our customers and the reality is some are worth more than others. That 0.1% is in the group that it is in becsuse they are a material importance to the game's ecological system. Thats OK.
You still fixed the sliver in your finger on this one by amputating an arm (must have been Aegon). As a platinum 3 or gold 1 member i am sorry but what the top 20 alliances do wont affect me or the vast majority of everyone else who plays this game. It isn’t necessary to fix their problems by creating issues for an also not insignificant portion of the people who play this game.
Tell me... what change yours „new matchmaking system”?? Because what I see and I think all players, new matchmaking system doesn’t change anything except we start our AW attack much earlier than usual...
So, yeah. A small start up gaming company that would be valid.
And even if it was the case… Four hours? It’s a computer not a delivery service. Computers work on seconds, milliseconds, nano… You could probably satisfactorily stagger blocks of the entire community within five minutes. Call it 30. So have all start times between 10:30 and 11 pst.
Based on the data I track during the season, a rough estimate for the number of wars per day is about 13,000. A four hour match window means they are finding and starting about one match per second (they could be doing so faster because they aren't necessarily using the entire four hour match window at the moment). Generating the match is almost certainly not the limiting factor here: launching the war is.
If you say so.
But imo, it's more like you're stuck in a car on the side of the road after narrowly avoiding death in a 20 car pile up. You're not where you want to be, but you're in a better place than you could be. Now, to start work on solving this step.