Summoner Sigil - Discussion Thread

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  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,301 Guardian

    Maybe we’re communicating what we want from Kabam in a way that isn’t encouraging them NOT to monetize each individual aspect of the game from energy to featured 5*s. Thoughts?

    If you want a serious reply, the answer is the playerbase is, in fact, encouraging them to monetize all aspects of the game. But that's not a bad thing either: I don't think it is a good idea to get into the weeds of deciding what parts of a game to monetize and which ones should be monetization-free. The more important question is the how of monetization, not the what. Keep in mind that everything in the VIP subscription besides inventory space is already part of a heavily monetized system.

    A lot of people play this game completely for free. Most, in fact, play this game completely for free: that's the reality of free to play gaming. If you want to lower the amount of monetization in the game, you are in essence saying you want to force more free players to pay - because if the people paying now pay less, someone else has to pay more. That includes the people currently paying zero.

    Maybe you're fine with having more people pay, but the free to play model relies in part on attracting lots of free players, from which some small percentage become paying customers. In effect, the free players are like the "foot traffic" in a shopping mall. The more people walking around, the more likely one of them will step into a store and buy something. So stores like to be where lots of people are milling around.

    Instead of having everyone pay the same amount, the free to play model allows most players to pay nothing, but some players end up paying a lot more. Is it better than the pure subscription model where everyone pays the same amount and everyone gets the same game? The answer is: look at the size of playerbases for the two types of games. F2P as a whole decimates pure subscription.

    How do you communicate to a game developer that they shouldn't use this model when it works? How do you communicate to a game developer that they should monetize less, and shift the balance of free and paying customers in a way that will generate less foot traffic? How do you convince them to do what we all claim we want them to do, but then turn around and spend our time and money on the games that do the exact opposite?

    I don't think you can.
  • XdonreXdonre Member Posts: 154
    The majority of these bonuses should be free enhancements that are implemented due to the games natural progression.
  • Sieger7999Sieger7999 Member Posts: 48
    I will most likely subscribe to this but I do think the inventory increase shouldn’t be behind a paywall, the other stuff I can live with but think that the inventory increase is a bit rude to hide behind a paywall
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Member Posts: 3,085 ★★★★★
    Real talk, yall - it makes a ton of sense to do 30 days on, 30 days off. Get your featured 5-stars at a discount and save up during slow months.
  • ÆrroneousÆrroneous Member Posts: 85
    I don’t like the idea of this subscription ****, but I guess Kabam is in desperate need of money. I won’t ever join but I hope a lot of other do so then maybe, just maybe they’ll have the money to fix the Help4 button.
  • HalleyHalley Member Posts: 431 ★★
    It seems a good one, I'll try this deal for sure! Keep up good game and we'll spend more. It'll help to save time to progress in game.
  • GreekhitGreekhit Member Posts: 2,820 ★★★★★
    @DNA3000
    U couldn’t put it in a more clear way mate.
    Hope the game developers distinguish and give the appropriate weight to serious posts like this.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,488 ★★★★★

    Onmix said:

    Up until now f2p have been able to catch up to those who spends by putting enough time in.
    Now they are widening the gap even more.

    Don’t like it. One bit.

    Spend then lol, it’s your choice.

    £10 a month is hardly amything. Save 50p a day.

    FTP cannot moan, as it’s your decisions not to spend
    The main problem isn't that we are unwilling to pay, it's because kabam wants us to pay for features that should actually be included for free to keep the game healthy and attractive to everyone. They should include most of the stuff offered like increased inventory and golden circle quests for free, and then for subscribers include stuff worth subscribing for, like reducing AQ timer from 6 to 4-5 mins and perhaps unlimited the inventory. I'm sure lots of people would subscribe for those.
    I'm sure lots of people would want more Gold, but they still wouldn't manage it properly. People think Gold is an issue, but it's readily available in the game, and easily farmed. The problem is people want to spend it beyond the limitations of the design, and Rank 5*s and 6*s as fast as they Ranked 4*s. Unfortunately, they're meant to take time to Rank. The largest argument is for Gold because people have ample access to everything else. However, you will always have Bottleneck Resources. Add more Gold, and it changes to something else. Further to that, more Gold won't help people look at how they're spending it faster than they're investing into making it. Simply put, if you spend more, it will take more time to replenish. People don't want to wait. They want an easy solution you can get from a few Paths in a Quest. Very little blame on the system can be made in that case.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,301 Guardian

    Well, well, well. What a fist in the face = KABAM! Nothing good will come of this and it will simply drive many players away all for a quick buck. The next idea will be to demand some sort of payment to log in. Ridiculous

    This is such a strange statement I literally do not know if it is serious or not. The idea to demand payment to log in is the *first* idea in online gaming, i.e. subscription based online games. Which were the norm until the free to play model came along to displace it. But such games still exist. It is unlikely that MCOC becomes one, but it isn't a ridiculous idea. The idea that you could give the game away for free and still be a viable business was the ridiculous idea, until it proved to be wildly successful in practice.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 21,764 ★★★★★
    None of that stuff was ever broke. So you aren't fixing anything. Kabam isnt the first game to offer a subscription service either. 25% inventory increase really isn't that much anyway. They arent game breaking additions.
  • XdSpoodermanxDXdSpoodermanxD Member Posts: 531 ★★★
    Summoner Sigil = doo doo
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,301 Guardian

    How to piss off the community 101

    I'm sure they pissed off a few dozen more players than that.
  • BLEEDlNG_DGEBLEEDlNG_DGE Member Posts: 324 ★★
    Pathetic.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,488 ★★★★★

    gsil6374 said:

    Question:

    So getting 300 units once a month or 300 once a week for 1,200 units a month? Just to clarify

    It is a 7 Day Solo Event that contains 75 Units in Rewards. There are 4 of those every month, so it's 300 units monthly.
    Let me get this straight. Instead of buying an SL bundle and getting 275 units, I can spend the same money on this program, get 300 units and even more stuff?
    Yep.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,301 Guardian

    gsil6374 said:

    Question:

    So getting 300 units once a month or 300 once a week for 1,200 units a month? Just to clarify

    It is a 7 Day Solo Event that contains 75 Units in Rewards. There are 4 of those every month, so it's 300 units monthly.
    Let me get this straight. Instead of buying an SL bundle and getting 275 units, I can spend the same money on this program, get 300 units and even more stuff?
    We don't know what the requirements are to get the milestones for the event, but assuming you are active enough, basically yes. The rewards are also different for different progress titles (i.e. Uncollected) but the units you can earn seem to be the same regardless of progress.

    Low activity players might not get the same return, depending on how the milestones are structured.
  • Phits007Phits007 Member Posts: 3
    Webby72 said:

    For anyone who feels that the outrage response is unnecessary, please do consider that this is essentially barring f2p players from competing at high levels by offering more items, energy, cheaper items etc. To paying players. I’m not going to purchase this out of principle not because I don’t spend on this game, because I do spend. Just consider that this is highly unfair to f2p players. Bonus energy, or cheaper items alone would be more palatable imo

    Unfair to F2P? They are playing for free off the $$ that the others in the community spend. How NM long would this game last without spending?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,488 ★★★★★

    Next step to get money out of us:

    Changing those class and rarity gates from 6.2 into $$$ gates in 6.3 and 6.4!

    2 of 10 paths for free and the rest $$$🤣

    I don't at all get the logic in this argument. The package isn't a requirement for anything. It's not necessary to play the game, not necessary for any piece of particular content in the game, just an additive for bonuses. People don't have to purchase it, yet the argument is being made that they're somehow making it a requirement to spend.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,488 ★★★★★
    It's an Offer, like any other Offer. You don't want it? Don't buy it. Can't afford it or don't have the funds? No shame there. Choose not to spend? Up to you. It's not some kind of ominous foreboding of the future, or beginning of the downfall of the game. It's just an Offer. The game sells things from time to time. That's what keeps it going in the capacity it is.
  • Phits007Phits007 Member Posts: 3
    Kobster84 said:

    I think the problem this summoner sigil presents is the precedent for the future
    Will the 5* basic arena when it comes be gated to subscription members
    Will there be an exclusive t5b daily quest for subscribers
    Just feel that a lot of content in the future will become paywalled like at the end of the day a bit of storage and gold while kabam should have made it free won’t be the end of the world but this subscription service will probably get worse as time goes on

    There should be some benefit for players willing to spend $$$

    Nothing prevents F2P players from playing and enjoying the game. Progress isn't hampered. So what if you don't clear content as quickly as another player (who happens to spend $$)?
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Member Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★
    Phits007 said:

    Kobster84 said:

    I think the problem this summoner sigil presents is the precedent for the future
    Will the 5* basic arena when it comes be gated to subscription members
    Will there be an exclusive t5b daily quest for subscribers
    Just feel that a lot of content in the future will become paywalled like at the end of the day a bit of storage and gold while kabam should have made it free won’t be the end of the world but this subscription service will probably get worse as time goes on

    There should be some benefit for players willing to spend $$$

    Nothing prevents F2P players from playing and enjoying the game. Progress isn't hampered. So what if you don't clear content as quickly as another player (who happens to spend $$)?
    There already is so much benefits to spending kabam keeps adding more and more and making it harder for f2p players
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,301 Guardian
    Kobster84 said:

    I think the problem this summoner sigil presents is the precedent for the future
    Will the 5* basic arena when it comes be gated to subscription members
    Will there be an exclusive t5b daily quest for subscribers
    Just feel that a lot of content in the future will become paywalled like at the end of the day a bit of storage and gold while kabam should have made it free won’t be the end of the world but this subscription service will probably get worse as time goes on

    If you think the developers are going to do that, why do you think the Sigil program changes anything. If they want to paywall something, they could simply pay wall it directly. Charge admission for the content. If you think they are willing to turn the game into pay to play, and at the ridiculously cheap amount of the Sigil cost, why don't you think in the absence of the Sigil they wouldn't have done it anyway, and charged even more for it ala carte?

    The subscription isn't even a real subscription. It is a monthly package that they describe as a subscription. They aren't even using the in-app subscription features of the app stores to enroll players into it. Since it is just a package they are selling over and over again, the actual mechanics of the system don't enable the devs to do something they otherwise couldn't. They could literally at any time add a T5B event and charge for entry. If Kabam really is just a greedy company out to make as money as possible, they would do that with or without the Sigil program in place.

    So what's the difference.
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