She-Hulk Heavy Speed Bug Fix [Title Edited for Clarity]

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Comments

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,276 Guardian
    mitchy231 said:

    If Kabam thinks this change is for the better good of the game, I am fine with that as an answer. Where I continue to struggle with this though is all the people who spent resources on a champ are now SOL.

    Picture it like buying a BMW, then a couple months later the dealership randomly taking the engine out of it and putting in a corolla engine. Then to top it off, the dealership then tries to sell you on the idea that even though you "thought" you bought a BMW, it was not our intention to actually sell you what you thought you were getting. And then not allowing you to return or trade in the car you bought. It just does not make any sense.

    That would suck, but you don't buy things in this game, you basically rent them. And as a renter, you have limited rights if the landlord decides to make changes. And you're supposed to know that and accept that if you decide to rent. If you want to buy instead of rent, you should buy games instead of renting them. If you buy a game at GameStop and the game developer changes something that you actually bought after you bought it somehow, then I think you'd have a right to complain.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,482 ★★★★★
    JohnHS said:

    JohnHS said:

    It has nothing to do with keeping it because it's been there too long. It has everything to do with what effect it has. There's no such thing as a bug that should be kept because it's been there too long.
    It's not a matter of picking and choosing Description over function. It's about the overall effect and intended outcome. If something is unintended or game-breaking in some way, they'll work on it. Sooner or later.

    It's not game-breaking. Unintended has nothing to do with it. This has been around for ever, they've known about it forever, and now they're changing it because it was a useful mechanic in many situations? That's absurd. You can do 1 heavy instead of 1 medium. Helps in avoiding parrying, thus reducing costs of questing, makes her ramp-up smoother, makes it easier to push champs to a bar of power. It's not like you can keep them heavy-locked in the corner like Doc Ock. You still have to bait specials.
    She-Hulk? Perhaps not game-breaking. SS would have been too OP at 100%. In terms of Shulk, that interaction is not intended. It bypasses functions they don't want bypassed. Really has very little to do with keeping it just because it says one thing and does another. It's about the intended interactions of Champs.
    I don't give a symbiote about their intentions. It's not about the developers. It's about the players who are supposed to be able to enjoy this game without their favorite champions getting "nerfed".

    Also, let's be real. This is happening because she's powerful, which costs them potions. And I know that argument is overused, but this is one case where this is true. Why didn't they fix her, or OML, or any of the other champs who can do this years ago? Because they weren't making fights easier and cheaper.
    You may not care, but their intentions are what form the game and keep it running. Considering we're coming up on 5 years, I'd say they know what they're doing.
  • mfleurymfleury Member Posts: 100
    DNA3000 said:

    mfleury said:

    I understand what you are saying but the problem is the way they handle the bugs.

    If anyone wants to complain that Kabam is horrible when it comes to communicating game intent, documenting in-game abilities and mechanics, bug tracking, or documenting bug fixes, they will get no argument from me.

    I don't really blame the players for complaining about these kinds of changes. I'm simply stating that players are really complaining about the wrong thing. They are actually inadvertently directing their anger towards other players, when they should be directing it at the source of the problem: the poor communication and bug management processes in the game that range from poorly maintained to completely non-existent.

    There's no good way to report bugs or anomalies. You can open a ticket. Ha ha, just kidding. And you can post on the forums. But the developers don't, and can't follow the forums continuously. And to the extent that they do, they don't always spot the right things and there's no way to follow up to see if anything is being worked on or even acknowledged. As far as I'm aware, it is no one's actual responsibility to track player-reported bugs specifically. For a game of this size and complexity, that's unacceptable.
    I think I misunderstood your first comment, than. Couldn't agree more with you.
  • volrexvolrex Member Posts: 48
    edited August 2019
    that was a really strong part of her utility kit ,that let her the ability to consistently ramp up even against stun immune and medium champions

    now with this nerf ,it's gonna make her alot harder to ramp up and pretty much maker her useless against so many fights where she shined

    tbh i dont see her being much used much over some unstoppable nodes ,that even against those she not always a good counter because of nodes that deny ability accuracy reduction
  • Agentk24Agentk24 Member Posts: 22
    Will champs still be able to spam heavies at the wall
  • AleorAleor Member Posts: 3,084 ★★★★★
    edited August 2019
    Also what about magik sp2 power steel? It isn't described anywhere in the game. A lot of others as well. If you are using it as an argument, first make in game descriptions full and correct. Overall I as a summoner don't feel appreciated atm, wich is quit ironic, cause every day I see calendar giving me some useless stuff
  • JohnHSJohnHS Member Posts: 509 ★★★
    Here's a bright idea: Say this wasn't intended, and nerf her, and then 'buff' her in honor of the announcement of the She-Hulk TV series.
    Because nerfing characters who just got a lot of attention I'm sure will help sales.
    Geniuses.
  • jnikolas92jnikolas92 Member Posts: 192 ★★★
    I can't stress enough that the issue is not with the actual "bug" of She Hulk. The reasoning that Kabam and the game team relayed to us is fair, and reasonable.
    The issue is with the play experience this has created. The lack of warning and interaction regarding She Hulks gameplay, even with MANY forum posts discussing how she's a great option for The Champion boss, other end game fights, even AW as well as well as videos on youtube showing the entire community as well.
    We see a great champ, and choose to use our rare resources ranking them up.
    and then all of a sudden we find out that those rare and valuable resources are essentially burned?
    The truth of the matter is, people ranked up she hulk based on what they saw, and what they understood as not a bug, since there was zero indication of it being so.
    Now that the game team has said there will be a change being made, and why...we move forward. We understand that as a natural process of the game.
    Due to a lack of communication and interaction (which could have easily been done via. Mod/Admin interaction within the forusm) the issue now is people who ranked up She Hulk are left in the dust, with valuable earned resources burned with no way to move forward.
    Regardless of the reasoning, the reality of the situation is that many summoners are feeling ripped off. and rightly so.
    Simply put, there needs to be compensation, like @Kabam Miike has once said, to rectify this situation and to make things right.
    we're already being made wary with the integrity of our champs and rank ups are being treated moving forward, but allowing us to rank down she hulk to move forward goes a LONG way with how this issues been treated so far.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,276 Guardian
    SparkAlot said:

    Hey everybody,

    We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.

    This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.

    We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.


    Mike, the better fix for this would be to do what Kabam usually does, and that is change her description to allow this behavior.

    We all know she had the ability for years, so, following what Kabam has done to other champs to match their actual abilities, like, the recent fix to Symbiote Supreme , where the description was changed to show 50% instead of 100%, it makes more sense to fix She-hulk the exact same way, just change it & tell everyone about her "lost" ability.

    I know you said "She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction." however, that means she wasn't tested or tuned at all, since she ALWAYS had it, so, ???
    Kabam doesn't "usually" do that: sometimes the mechanics are bugged, and sometimes the descriptions are just plain wrong.

    The problem here seems to be that there's a design rule we were not aware of, that makes this kind of chaining "outside the rules" for how champions are supposed to be implemented. When a bug is inside the rules in general but unintended for the champion specifically, Kabam can make an executive decision to allow the bug to stand. But when a bug is outside the rules that's more dangerous to keep around, because everything else in the game gets implemented as if the rule was true and that can sometimes cause nasty problems down the road. An example would be the accidentally passive stun in Archangel's abilities. No one really cared until content was created on the assumption that stuns could be always resisted. Then AA's unresistable stuns broke it because those stuns were not factored into the content.

    Designers can't remember all the exceptions to all the rules: that's why the rules exist in the first place, so a few general rules can substitute for hundreds of individual behaviors. If the heavy chaining is outside the design rules like they say, which is actually likely, then giving She Hulk a pass will set an invisible land mine that some future piece of content will step on one day. This game doesn't need any more of those.
  • JohnHSJohnHS Member Posts: 509 ★★★
    Ace_03 said:

    The main takeaway from this is this:

    Don't rely on champions, abilities, tricks and moves that are considered "cheese". Anything not within the logic of the game and sound gameplay will eventually be fixed.

    Take the safe route and use/rank champions that are reliable, IMO any champion who is extremely proficient, at some point might be looked at and tweaked, build a balanced roster of different tier of champions, with different kits of utility.

    And for specific, end-game difficult fights, look for 1 de more option to deal with it, if you can't then wait until you do.

    I'd think that an ability that she's had consistently for two years is fairly reliable.
  • Nerfed2DefNerfed2Def Member Posts: 292 ★★
    @jnikolas92 perfect post sir.

    @Omegatron
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