You just don't get byes anymore anytime you'd match someone "stronger" than you. Want that higher multiplier, go take that spot from another alliance that's actually in that tier
That argument is invalid because the argument I was just making was that people were missing out on Rewards. They couldn't do that with people actually in that Tier. Not enough to go up. Meanwhile people with lower Champs were, and that's what we call bitterness.
You just don't get byes anymore anytime you'd match someone "stronger" than you. Want that higher multiplier, go take that spot from another alliance that's actually in that tier
That argument is invalid because the argument I was just making was that people were missing out on Rewards. They couldn't do that with people actually in that Tier. Not enough to go up. Meanwhile people with lower Champs were, and that's what we call bitterness.
No that's what we call asinine and broken. It makes no logical sense in any form of competition to be able to bypass competing against the majority of other people in your own bracket. The fact you've spent weeks doing mental backflips trying to compare it to things like arena is flat out mind boggling even for a contrarian such as yourself
You don't Match by way of people in your Bracket. You're in the Bracket you're in based on Points. Just like an Arena. Higher Streak means more Points.
I'm talking about tiers not reward ranks. Tiers control your multiplier and are dictated by war rating. If war rating determines your tier and therefore your multiplier, on what planet do you live on that matching also being based on that does not make sense?
Right. Which is a direct result of Wins and Losses. They earned the Wins in their own Matches. I know it's a hard concept to grasp, but Allies can simultaneously be in the same Tier and have Matches equal to them. They earned it. Now, I wasn't opposed to adjusting the Points based on what people were using, and I suggested as much. However, the only reason this came about is the larger guys felt entitled to smash the little guys because they were in the same Tiers. That's about it. Petty tyrants.
Yes they can have matches equal to them. They can also match against people both stronger and weaker to them. That's how it is currently and how it always should have been. If there are similar strength alliances near your war rating, more often than not get matched with them at some point. The problem was that the match system went outside of your own tier to find a match when there weren't any available with similar strength. That should never be happening.
It's got nothing to do with tyrants, like I mentioned this change will barely affect me if even at all. The old system just didn't make a lick of sense. If you're in T1 the system shouldn't be jumping down to T9 to find a match for you while you get T1 points for that win, it's ridiculous. If they got the T9 multiplier for that war, then who cares but they weren't.
You just don't get byes anymore anytime you'd match someone "stronger" than you. Want that higher multiplier, go take that spot from another alliance that's actually in that tier
That argument is invalid because the argument I was just making was that people were missing out on Rewards. They couldn't do that with people actually in that Tier. Not enough to go up. Meanwhile people with lower Champs were, and that's what we call bitterness.
No that's what we call asinine and broken. It makes no logical sense in any form of competition to be able to bypass competing against the majority of other people in your own bracket. The fact you've spent weeks doing mental backflips trying to compare it to things like arena is flat out mind boggling even for a contrarian such as yourself
You don't Match by way of people in your Bracket. You're in the Bracket you're in based on Points. Just like an Arena. Higher Streak means more Points.
I'm talking about tiers not reward ranks. Tiers control your multiplier and are dictated by war rating. If war rating determines your tier and therefore your multiplier, on what planet do you live on that matching also being based on that does not make sense?
Right. Which is a direct result of Wins and Losses. They earned the Wins in their own Matches. I know it's a hard concept to grasp, but Allies can simultaneously be in the same Tier and have Matches equal to them. They earned it. Now, I wasn't opposed to adjusting the Points based on what people were using, and I suggested as much. However, the only reason this came about is the larger guys felt entitled to smash the little guys because they were in the same Tiers. That's about it. Petty tyrants.
Yes they can have matches equal to them. They can also match against people both stronger and weaker to them. That's how it is currently and how it always should have been. If there are similar strength alliances near your war rating, more often than not get matched with them at some point. The problem was that the match system went outside of your own tier to find a match when there weren't any available with similar strength. That should never be happening.
Outside of your own Tier is wrong. The system was different. This whole idea that it shouldn't have happened is based on this whole territorial assumption that people have a right to wherever they are and that doesn’t apply to a constantly moving system where you aren't owed your spot. You earn it and keep it based on what you do. No one holds a Deed to their spot. They earned their Rewards within the system as it was then, and no one is owed anything other than what they themselves earned. That's the bottom line.
What you’re saying is categorically false. The system, as it WAS, was designed to rig the closest matchups possible due to prestige and war rating, thus compelling spending on items due to high marginal benefits of item usage. A side effect was these stupid diversity wars.
If you want to reward alliances relative to their strength and abilities in that system, that’s a valid viewpoint, but the multiplier should come from prestige/opponent strength and not map difficulty. Two 30m alliances squaring off in tier 8 face tougher opponents for less rewards than two 10m alliances in tier 6.
By the end of this season, alliances like mine will bank a bunch of W’s and return to a more logical place in the ratings.
This time expectations to have a better experience with War turned out to be a completely opposite experience, we are a gold 2 alliance with an alliance rating of 14.5 mil and prestige of around 6500. Where the 2 opponents we got so far this season are 33 mil, 10k prestige and 21.6 mil 8.5k prestige alliances. On the first war our prestige and rating was even lower 6.2k and 13.8 mil respectively. If such matches made in hell keep on happening just based on war eating alone then I don’t see any scope to enjoy the game alongside old teammates and enjoying the rewards we deserve for the amount of hard efforts we put in.
I must urge the hardworking personnel at Kabam to look into this issue ASAP, to make this matchmaking actually resemble the word before up and coming alliance like ours loose the interest in wars completely.
You just don't get byes anymore anytime you'd match someone "stronger" than you. Want that higher multiplier, go take that spot from another alliance that's actually in that tier
That argument is invalid because the argument I was just making was that people were missing out on Rewards. They couldn't do that with people actually in that Tier. Not enough to go up. Meanwhile people with lower Champs were, and that's what we call bitterness.
Yet not competing against the actual better teams in those spots. Now that you are, you can’t compete. And you’re bitter and lashing out on here.
You got to be kidding kabam, is unfair the war between my alliance and one of 41 million You have to fix that
Same problem with us as well mate They have to fix that ASAP
They are fixing it but you’re all too short sighted to see they’re fixing it. My alliance has also matched a 41 mil rating alliance, 11mil more than mine, but you don’t see me crying about it because I understand that if they beat us, they clearly deserve to rank higher.
This alliance season isn't going as well as it should be and as we summoners had thought, our alliance is facing some such allies which have same war rating but a hell and heaven difference in alliance rating and alliance prestige. I would like to draw the developers' attention and ask for some changes real soon or the average hardworking players aren't gonna have fun anymore in war matchmaking.
@GroundedWisdom go back to the sports analogies. You brought up weight classes in boxing. Do you want lower groups to essentially only be allowed to play Heroic War with Heroic rewards? If that's the case, it makes sense to use prestige and have them only match other low groups. In this scenario, the best lower groups could climb to the top, and get the best Heroic rewards. They would not have the option of getting UC rewards or Master rewards no matter how many wars they win until they gain weight. Similarly, a welterweight boxer can be undefeated and hold the welterweight belt, but he can't compete for the Heavyweight belt. Our previous system allowed Heroic/Welterweight alliances who were the best in that group to win Uncollected/Heavyweight rewards by beating other lower groups. This forced other heavyweights to fight each other for Heroic rewards. The best Little League team in the world might never lose a single game ever to other Little League teams. That's awesome. They should get credit as the best in their level. They don't push higher level teams to lower levels as a result. If you don't want segregation and you want everyone to compete for the same rewards, that same best of the Heroic level war alliances will rise to the top of that level and beat some of the less skilled Master groups, but they will hit a wall and won't get to Uncollected until they get stronger.That's what's happening now. Every alliance will win or lose until they get to where they are getting fairly rewarded for the level they can attain. The truth is the very top was fine in either scenario because they can outspend everyone. This was never about them, contrary to your belief. Previously lower groups were getting rewards they didn't earn as they were getting Master and Uncollected rewards by beating the Heroic level. Now it's being fixed and you say it's unfair lol.
Did I not just say that the Rewards could have been addressed? That was an option. So was easing the adjustment so that the Season wasn't filled with Matches like the ones we're seeing. Now all we have is a mess.
Oh no. War is going to be a mess for one season while the system corrects itself to how it should have been from the start.
What's that? War seasons have always been unfair and unbalanced?
What's that? Alliances that have gained an advantage because they were only matching lower rated opponents to climb up through the ladders without ever having to face a legitimate ranked opponent?
What's that? You're telling me that no damn game with a ranked ladder and an actual functioning MMR system would implement a broken flawed system where someone could play way about their station like the old system did?
In one season, all alliances will be in their proper places and getting appropriate rewards for the amount of effort they put in. There is no way that some of these lower prestige, and lower overall combined hero rating alliances should be at the rank they achieved by fighting much easier opponents. That was a fundamentally flawed system.
Oh no. Right. Tell me this. Did people not argue for weeks when one War was discounted? "End the Season! Do the right thing Kabam!". That argument was valid, but an entire Season that's going to be a mess for many, many people....oh, that's just for the betterment of everyone. Double standard, really. Bottom line is everyone's Season matters. Everyone's effort is worth something. Not just the Top.
Exactly! Everybody’s season matters! Which is why we are now matched by war ratings instead of prestige. And those top teams that have been held down unfairly by smaller teams will rise in the rankings to reflect that they are better. No more free rides.
No matter how you try to spin it, placing Alliances in Matches they have no possible way of winning is wrong. Doesn't matter how justified you think it is. It's just a Season of sadistically watching people fail.
@GroundedWisdom go back to the sports analogies. You brought up weight classes in boxing. Do you want lower groups to essentially only be allowed to play Heroic War with Heroic rewards? If that's the case, it makes sense to use prestige and have them only match other low groups. In this scenario, the best lower groups could climb to the top, and get the best Heroic rewards. They would not have the option of getting UC rewards or Master rewards no matter how many wars they win until they gain weight. Similarly, a welterweight boxer can be undefeated and hold the welterweight belt, but he can't compete for the Heavyweight belt. Our previous system allowed Heroic/Welterweight alliances who were the best in that group to win Uncollected/Heavyweight rewards by beating other lower groups. This forced other heavyweights to fight each other for Heroic rewards. The best Little League team in the world might never lose a single game ever to other Little League teams. That's awesome. They should get credit as the best in their level. They don't push higher level teams to lower levels as a result. If you don't want segregation and you want everyone to compete for the same rewards, that same best of the Heroic level war alliances will rise to the top of that level and beat some of the less skilled Master groups, but they will hit a wall and won't get to Uncollected until they get stronger.That's what's happening now. Every alliance will win or lose until they get to where they are getting fairly rewarded for the level they can attain. The truth is the very top was fine in either scenario because they can outspend everyone. This was never about them, contrary to your belief. Previously lower groups were getting rewards they didn't earn as they were getting Master and Uncollected rewards by beating the Heroic level. Now it's being fixed and you say it's unfair lol.
Did I not just say that the Rewards could have been addressed? That was an option. So was easing the adjustment so that the Season wasn't filled with Matches like the ones we're seeing. Now all we have is a mess.
Oh no. War is going to be a mess for one season while the system corrects itself to how it should have been from the start.
What's that? War seasons have always been unfair and unbalanced?
What's that? Alliances that have gained an advantage because they were only matching lower rated opponents to climb up through the ladders without ever having to face a legitimate ranked opponent?
What's that? You're telling me that no damn game with a ranked ladder and an actual functioning MMR system would implement a broken flawed system where someone could play way about their station like the old system did?
In one season, all alliances will be in their proper places and getting appropriate rewards for the amount of effort they put in. There is no way that some of these lower prestige, and lower overall combined hero rating alliances should be at the rank they achieved by fighting much easier opponents. That was a fundamentally flawed system.
Oh no. Right. Tell me this. Did people not argue for weeks when one War was discounted? "End the Season! Do the right thing Kabam!". That argument was valid, but an entire Season that's going to be a mess for many, many people....oh, that's just for the betterment of everyone. Double standard, really. Bottom line is everyone's Season matters. Everyone's effort is worth something. Not just the Top.
Exactly! Everybody’s season matters! Which is why we are now matched by war ratings instead of prestige. And those top teams that have been held down unfairly by smaller teams will rise in the rankings to reflect that they are better. No more free rides.
No matter how you try to spin it, placing Alliances in Matches they have no possible way of winning is wrong. Doesn't matter how justified you think it is. It's just a Season of sadistically watching people fail.
GW, would you like to join my alliance ? I noticed we had similar war ratings. I’m being serious too. I would like to offer you the chance to see things from another perspective.
I think if you spent a season in a 10k prestige alliance fighting 10k prestige alliances and dealing with the stress and expenses involved, you might change your mind about the fix they are pushing.
You would realize that the system was flawed, as our ratings were similar but we would n vet have faced off before previously.
You may think you are the protector of the people, but really you’re just seeing one side of the issue and not really understanding what was happening. Ratings were being misrepresented, allowing weaker teams to earn better rewards simply because it was easier for them to get a higher multiplier. There are some very skilled lower prestige alliances who could crush anyone in their prestige range, but would be crushed if they were fighting based on rating which was always Kabams stated mission on war; to be the best you have to beat the best.
So take me up on the offer, join us and see what higher prestige wars are like. After a few wars the system will be rebalanced and you’ll see the increased difficulty.
We’re wasting our time discussing the old matchmaking system vs new matchmaking system. Anyone who is objective and has common sense knows that the old matchmaking system was extremely unfair. Obviously these lower rated alliances didn’t deserve more 5 and 6 star shards than the higher rated alliances who would totally obliterate them in a head to head matchup (much like we’re witnessing now).
What we need to be discussing is compensation like Corby11 and SuniDarur mentioned. Think about all the seasons of alliances being shafted with the old system. There are so many alliances who would have placed in platinum, and not gold had the system been fair this whole time. Instead the platinum rewards (so many 5 and 6 star shards) were given to many low rated alliances who had no business being in platinum or maybe even gold 1.
Should there be compensation for these alliances? If so, how should that compensation be handled.
The more I think about it the more I feel that alliances like mine - who were robbed of a higher placing in AW because of the grossly unfair system of having everyone share the same prize pool without having the potential to face every opponent of the same AW rank and fighting in the same map tiers - should given compensation. It’s cost some of us thousands of 6* shards finishing Gold 1 when without this handicap we should have been Platinum. This should never have happened in the first place, if kabam had wanted to group alliances by prestige they should have separated the reward tiers in the same manner. This rebalancing of AW is well over due.
Totally agree with @Corby11. Kabam needs to compensate all the alliances who were impacted due to this system.
I have 1 crazy idea how we could do that.
X 2 the rewards everyone will get this season. Except for Masters (maybe give them x 1,5 bc x 2 would prob be too crazy)
All the alliances that got shafted would get a nice amount of extra shards bc they auto go higher than before.
The lower ones get a little bit compensated that they have to face unwinnable wars (even tho they dont deserve it, it would make them be quiet)
I mean its just an idea. Not that I expect kabam to do that
Yup, we are facing the same issue ! It’s not that hard to make decent matches among alliances to fight. Simply do a weighted average of alliance war rating, prestige and overall alliance rating. That way alliances which are similar to each other regarding just one variable but different in all others shouldn’t be facing each other. Or the war rating can be avoided completely, pit Alliances with similar prestige and alliance ratings with similar number of members/participants, war rating will then be just an indicator of good fair competition.
That's where we disagree. Whether the system was using Prestige or not, it didn't cost people anything. They're not owed their Bracket placements. They earn them. It's based on Points. You earn more Points for more consecutive Wins.
Exactly everyone else’s points you should earn your spots by more consecutive wins but you should be randomly matched to any other alliance with the same number of points as you not just a select handful. How is it a fair and open competition If people can surpass others without having to play them, it’s a rigged system and yes if I am sat at the top spot of G1 having been displaced from P4 by a team not playing on the same level playing field then that unbalanced has cost me. Lots of games have competitions where players or teams of similar levels are pitched against each other the difference is those games normally have leagues, bronze silver gold etc and the top rewards in each league reflect the Level you are at within the game, it’s not an open pot everyone gets to dip into but where you are disadvantaged by your actual progression within the game itself.
Anyway it’s getting a bit boring now. Scrolling through the comments it it’s clear that the vast majority of us are just debating with the same 2 people over a situation that Kabam have finally rectified (kudos guys) so does your argument / view really matter now ....mmm No
Hi every one, am new to postings on forum , just wondered if anybody could let me know roughly where an alliance with 5.5m rating and 4400 prestige should be in war ranks ?
They WERE fighting people that were actually in that Tier. Quite fairly.
Did you miss quickpiks example, he made it to tier 6 with a 3* alliance, he wasnt fighting anyone in tier 6, they would have to pull low rated opponents from as far away as tier 9 (if I recall the numbers correctly) one bg wars reaching gold 2. I think locking ratings may work long term. But This preseason I think maybe not. i think the smart (non platinum) alliances were climbing anyway, instead Of tanking, they knew things were about to start evening out and alliances like mine who are placed way out of where we should be tried to get to a better multiplier to start the season
Hi every one, am new to postings on forum , just wondered if anybody could let me know roughly where an alliance with 5.5m rating and 4400 prestige should be in war ranks ?
I'm sure people would know roughly, but just keep doing wars and you'll get placed where you should because the system works. how are the opponents you are facing? if you're crushing them, you're too low. if you're being crushed, you're too high
X 2 the rewards everyone will get this season. Except for Masters (maybe give them x 1,5 bc x 2 would prob be too crazy)
All the alliances that got shafted would get a nice amount of extra shards bc they auto go higher than before.
The lower ones get a little bit compensated that they have to face unwinnable wars (even tho they dont deserve it, it would make them be quiet)
I mean its just an idea. Not that I expect kabam to do that
Maybe just give everyone the rewards from one bracket higher than they place, compensates the inflated teams for losing so much this season, and compensates the deflated teams like mine for the rewards they have been missing out on
We all know season rewards Below p2 are far from game breaking or even being worth the effort
Of course you could have read the AW changes announcement to understand why you are being matched this way currently. Maybe Kabam can learn from you how to complain about something before researching all the facts before hand. Hope you aren't a lawyer. I'd feel bad for your clients.
Is this going to happen Everytime there's a attack phase? Please search the forums before posting. There's a mega thread about this already and dozens of others that are now just cluttering up the forums.
We're gonna see these complaints for awhile, and then they will turn into complaints how the previous season they were gold or platinum and now they're silver or gold. It'll never stop because you can't make everyone happy and someone will always complain.
The system is pairing those correctly, by war rating. Alliance PI means nothing and everyone will settle properly in the positions they should be.
Really dude this is your logical explanation. The whole idea is to have a even playing field based on alliances. And alliances means all 30 members not me alone. That’s why it is called ‘Alliance War’ and not ‘Individual War’.
that's exactly what the new matchmaking is doing.....
That's what season 19 is about. Bringing in smaller alliance who took advantage of a broken match making system back in line where they should have been.
Comments
If you want to reward alliances relative to their strength and abilities in that system, that’s a valid viewpoint, but the multiplier should come from prestige/opponent strength and not map difficulty. Two 30m alliances squaring off in tier 8 face tougher opponents for less rewards than two 10m alliances in tier 6.
By the end of this season, alliances like mine will bank a bunch of W’s and return to a more logical place in the ratings.
I must urge the hardworking personnel at Kabam to look into this issue ASAP, to make this matchmaking actually resemble the word before up and coming alliance like ours loose the interest in wars completely.
.
My alliance has also matched a 41 mil rating alliance, 11mil more than mine, but you don’t see me crying about it because I understand that if they beat us, they clearly deserve to rank higher.
This alliance season isn't going as well as it should be and as we summoners had thought, our alliance is facing some such allies which have same war rating but a hell and heaven difference in alliance rating and alliance prestige.
I would like to draw the developers' attention and ask for some changes real soon or the average hardworking players aren't gonna have fun anymore in war matchmaking.
I think if you spent a season in a 10k prestige alliance fighting 10k prestige alliances and dealing with the stress and expenses involved, you might change your mind about the fix they are pushing.
You would realize that the system was flawed, as our ratings were similar but we would n vet have faced off before previously.
You may think you are the protector of the people, but really you’re just seeing one side of the issue and not really understanding what was happening. Ratings were being misrepresented, allowing weaker teams to earn better rewards simply because it was easier for them to get a higher multiplier. There are some very skilled lower prestige alliances who could crush anyone in their prestige range, but would be crushed if they were fighting based on rating which was always Kabams stated mission on war; to be the best you have to beat the best.
So take me up on the offer, join us and see what higher prestige wars are like. After a few wars the system will be rebalanced and you’ll see the increased difficulty.
X 2 the rewards everyone will get this season. Except for Masters (maybe give them x 1,5 bc x 2 would prob be too crazy)
All the alliances that got shafted would get a nice amount of extra shards bc they auto go higher than before.
The lower ones get a little bit compensated that they have to face unwinnable wars (even tho they dont deserve it, it would make them be quiet)
I mean its just an idea. Not that I expect kabam to do that
Anyway it’s getting a bit boring now. Scrolling through the comments it it’s clear that the vast majority of us are just debating with the same 2 people over a situation that Kabam have finally rectified (kudos guys) so does your argument / view really matter now ....mmm No
because the system works. how are the opponents you are facing? if you're crushing them, you're too low. if you're being crushed, you're too high
🤦♂️🤦♂️
I have 1 crazy idea how we could do that.
X 2 the rewards everyone will get this season. Except for Masters (maybe give them x 1,5 bc x 2 would prob be too crazy)
All the alliances that got shafted would get a nice amount of extra shards bc they auto go higher than before.
The lower ones get a little bit compensated that they have to face unwinnable wars (even tho they dont deserve it, it would make them
be quiet)
I mean its just an idea. Not that I expect kabam to do that
Maybe just give everyone the rewards from one bracket higher than they place, compensates the inflated teams for losing so much this season, and compensates the deflated teams like mine for the rewards they have been missing out on
We all know season rewards Below p2 are far from game breaking or even being worth the effort
Be merged into at the very top of the forums, addressing this. maybe you should wade into there
The system is pairing those correctly, by war rating. Alliance PI means nothing and everyone will settle properly in the positions they should be.