From the comments I've read here I infer that those who can take such challenges as this mysterio want others to not have the pleasure of this event and wish that even the initial bosses be kept impossible for most non-TB rosters. Well, then, we all know that a game dies if it caters only to the interest of the very top players. So RIP MCOC.
I wish everyone to have the pleasure of this event and others like it. By growing their roster and skill level until they can do it. And if they can't do this one, they should continue to grow both until they can do the next one.
Part of why a progressional game like MCOC succeeds and persists is because of aspiration. Players can't have everything handed to them. Players can't even have everything within reach of being acquired. There has to be things outside of their grasp that make progress meaningful. There has to be things you can't do today to provide a reason to get stronger tomorrow. Without that, games like this quickly become boring. First you lose the people at the top, then you lose the people below them when they realize the road they are on leads nowhere. And then you make the game pointless for everyone else.
Most content is doable by most players, or has difficulty variations that most players can do. Story arc content is structured like that, monthly content is structured like that, most side quests are structured like that. Things like the Boss Rushes or the Summer of Pain series are not structured like that. They are meant to be tests, and for them to be effective as tests not everyone can pass. A test everyone passes is meaningless.
People should ask whether they should be playing progressional games at all, because this keeps coming up over and over again. Part of all progressional games is the progressional ladder that gets players from one progressional point to another. If this content is not structured properly, players cannot progress higher. That's a problem, and I've advocated fixing such problems when they exist. But the other part of progressional games are tests of progress, to show players how far they've gotten and how far they have left to go. Sometimes you're going to pass such tests, and sometimes you're going to fail. When you fail, you're supposed to be motivated to get better, not complain about the fact that you're missing out on something. If you can't deal with failure in this part of the game, progressional games are not for you.
The idea that the game only caters to the very highest players is frankly laughable. Very, very little content caters to them directly. The vast majority of content is targeted either at everyone, or at moderate tiers of progress. Things like the Summer of Pain are the very rare exception. And the game should spend most of its effort targeting the moderate middle of players. Things like the Summer of Pain should be the exception not the rule. But anyone arguing that content like the Summer of Pain isn't the exception is just making things up. In the last five years, we've basically had the Maze, the Omega Rush, and the Summer of Pain. And that's basically it for top tier limited time content.
Head smashing is exactly how you're supposed to beat this Mysterio.
Lol. That's fair. Am I petitioning to have it nerfed? Not really that invested. All I know is the Fight is tighter than it needs to be. Both previous ones were challenging but doable. This one didn't even flinch past 100% in the few tries I made, even with Poison counters. Bit excessive really. Considering Cavs only have limited access. I'm with the OP. Overkill. Just my opinion. Of course it's not meant to be that easy. That's obvious. There is a line though.
All it requires for the easiest time is access to poison damage. Not poison Immunity.
Without poison this fight is doable by virtually any champ but its a 6 million hp fight.
If you can't acknowledge that this Fight is noticeably more frustrating than the previous two, then I don't know what to say. Seems like people argue against any comment that something is overboard.
It's only frustrating to those who haven't developed their rosters, which is why SoP is primarily for TBs and Cavaliers can attempt it with what they have. Frustrating is also a poor choice to describe anything, since what some people find frustrating some people will find fun.
Define developed. If you're saying it's only for people with 80-100 6*s and 15-20 R3s, then there's a major design flaw in making it available to Cavs.
Do you look at your roster, think about where the weak spots are, and rank up champs to proactively fill those gaps?
This kind of content rewards that kind of player. Everyone else has to be either extremely lucky or extremely skilled or both.
I'm probably going to be using my 5* iBom for this one. You could say I got lucky pulling him, but as I have almost every 5* champ and deliberately target obvious gaps with featured crystals, I would say I would have had to be astronomically unlucky to *not* have him.
He's also ranked up already, because once again you could say I got lucky, but I would say I was filling a utility hole in my roster so obvious iBom had a neon sign hanging around his neck flashing "rank me, the devs are not going to forget Acid Wash is a thing."
That's how I define "developed."
Also, there's no fight you can do with an R3 you can't do with an R2 with a little more difficulty (or a boost or two), and thus pretty much every fight doable with an R3 is doable (again, with a little more difficulty or an extra revive) with a 5/65. So no one needs a hundred 6* champs to do SoP. They don't even need one. In fact, anyone who jumped to focusing on 6* champs too early, at the expense of having a well developed 5* roster, would actually be at a disadvantage in Summer of Pain. An irony I find to be entirely appropriate.
That's partially why SoP is open to Cavalier and up. Cavalier players are not at a huge disadvantage to Thronebreakers when it comes to the individual fights. A Cav with a strong set of 5/65s is only going to be slightly behind a TB with a ton of R3s. They might not even be the *right* R3s for these fights, erasing almost all of that advantage. Of course, the *average* TB will probably have a stronger 5* roster than the average Cav, but that's due more to the average TB having played the game longer than the average Cav. The downstream objectives are limited to Thronebreakers not because it is impossible for Cavalier players to do them, but simply because they contain rewards that targeted TB players and are not considered appropriate rewards for Cavalier tier players.
I've done the fight with minimal difficulty using Claire Voyant but I agree with the creator of the thread. When you severely limit the champion pool it becomes less about skill and more about stress. I think they miss the mark on making things accessible and difficult more often than not. Sometimes they seem to get it .. other times it's like let's see what end game players say now while forgetting about the other 98% of the game's population lol
Still ... I've done the fight and I too think the way it is isn't really about skill but more so very specific champs. I mean it can "technically" be a LOOOOOONNNNGGGG slog with any champ but why introduce the stress of that in a so far fun event just to prove some point to end game players.
How is it champ specific when there are more than 15 champs that can inflict poison? And it was even made more roster encompassing than A6 by introducing a node that armor breaks him when you use a special on top of a node that gives him (and indirectly you) more power to throw specials?
well those 15 or so champs (really?? there's actually 15?? lol) ... that makes up less than a 2% of the champion pool doesn't it?? thus making it pretty specific lol
as i mentioned though .. you can "technically" do it with any champ .. even the ones that don't do poison if you want to sit through a 1000 hit win
i just think the point of these things is to make it difficult but not restrictive ... and keep in mind .. i've done it so I'm not on the side of those who can't finish it ... just saying I can certainly understand their frustration.
15/150 is 10%. 15/200 is 7.5%. Specific?
yep that's a pretty specific subset of champs that match well ... 7.5-10% of the available champs i'd say that's very specific.
How many champs do you have to pull before the odds of having at least one of those (I'm assuming the number is accurate) are overwhelmingly high, say 99%? Let's assume we're opening crystals with 200 different champs (which on average would be an overestimate) and only 15 are in your target.
Answer: 59. Basically, someone who has opened 59 5* and 6* champion crystals combined has a roughly 99% chance of having at least one of those champs, assuming we're talking about 15 our of 200.
Maybe 1% is still too high a chance of not having one of those counters. How about 99.9%, with a one in a thousand chance of missing all of them. How many crystals does it take to reach those odds? About 89.
I think there are more counters than that (this probably excludes things like super duper prowess Magneto for example, and probably other options people haven't figured out after only a couple hours of thought), but even so, this is one measure of the "restrictiveness" of the content. We would expect 99% of players who have opened at least 59 5* and higher crystals to possess such a counter, and less than one in a thousand players who have opened at least 89 to be missing such a counter.
This also sets aside the fact that anyone complaining that these challenges should be more about "skill" than roster should be willing to take them on with 4* champs. That would be an order of magnitude harder, but that's 100% surmountable with skill (or boosts and revives).
Head smashing is exactly how you're supposed to beat this Mysterio.
Lol. That's fair. Am I petitioning to have it nerfed? Not really that invested. All I know is the Fight is tighter than it needs to be. Both previous ones were challenging but doable. This one didn't even flinch past 100% in the few tries I made, even with Poison counters. Bit excessive really. Considering Cavs only have limited access. I'm with the OP. Overkill. Just my opinion. Of course it's not meant to be that easy. That's obvious. There is a line though.
All it requires for the easiest time is access to poison damage. Not poison Immunity.
Without poison this fight is doable by virtually any champ but its a 6 million hp fight.
If you can't acknowledge that this Fight is noticeably more frustrating than the previous two, then I don't know what to say. Seems like people argue against any comment that something is overboard.
It's only frustrating to those who haven't developed their rosters, which is why SoP is primarily for TBs and Cavaliers can attempt it with what they have. Frustrating is also a poor choice to describe anything, since what some people find frustrating some people will find fun.
Define developed. If you're saying it's only for people with 80-100 6*s and 15-20 R3s, then there's a major design flaw in making it available to Cavs.
Do you look at your roster, think about where the weak spots are, and rank up champs to proactively fill those gaps?
This kind of content rewards that kind of player. Everyone else has to be either extremely lucky or extremely skilled or both.
I'm probably going to be using my 5* iBom for this one. You could say I got lucky pulling him, but as I have almost every 5* champ and deliberately target obvious gaps with featured crystals, I would say I would have had to be astronomically unlucky to *not* have him.
He's also ranked up already, because once again you could say I got lucky, but I would say I was filling a utility hole in my roster so obvious iBom had a neon sign hanging around his neck flashing "rank me, the devs are not going to forget Acid Wash is a thing."
That's how I define "developed."
Also, there's no fight you can do with an R3 you can't do with an R2 with a little more difficulty (or a boost or two), and thus pretty much every fight doable with an R3 is doable (again, with a little more difficulty or an extra revive) with a 5/65. So no one needs a hundred 6* champs to do SoP. They don't even need one. In fact, anyone who jumped to focusing on 6* champs too early, at the expense of having a well developed 5* roster, would actually be at a disadvantage in Summer of Pain. An irony I find to be entirely appropriate.
That's partially why SoP is open to Cavalier and up. Cavalier players are not at a huge disadvantage to Thronebreakers when it comes to the individual fights. A Cav with a strong set of 5/65s is only going to be slightly behind a TB with a ton of R3s. They might not even be the *right* R3s for these fights, erasing almost all of that advantage. Of course, the *average* TB will probably have a stronger 5* roster than the average Cav, but that's due more to the average TB having played the game longer than the average Cav. The downstream objectives are limited to Thronebreakers not because it is impossible for Cavalier players to do them, but simply because they contain rewards that targeted TB players and are not considered appropriate rewards for Cavalier tier players.
Ironically I’ve not used a single one of my R3 champions as a first time solo option. And even then, the only time I used one of my r3 champions was using prof X on rogue just to see if it was possible.
Taking it a step further, I’ve not even used one of my 6* for a summer of pain fight yet. I used ghost, sunspot then man thing all 5/65. Because I ranked them when I needed them 1-3 years ago.
This backs up the very well put point that DNA is making. Content like this rewards roster depth, not “height” - in this case, ranking up more 5*, is more beneficial than ranking up less 6* to rank 3. There is 0 reason a Cav player could not complete as many as, or more fights than a TB as long as they’ve ranked up enough champions to address most conceivable issues in the game. The odds of not pulling one of the 15-100 counters for these summer of pain fights are astronomical.
Tried it with man thing (6* R1) but couldn't knock more than 20% off... Bear in mind I'm running suicides so that didn't help and I don't fancy taking them off so I'll admit defeat lmao.
Seems like it's definitely above my skill grade lol.
Got the one shot on my third run with Apoc. Wasn’t too bad at all. Had to restart a couple times because Mysterio decided throwing specials was for nerds and I got poisoned. All in all, really not terribly difficult with Apoc. Would recommend him as a counter.
Making the weakness permanent with the sp3 is huge. Dramatically reduces the incoming damage from Mysterio if you mess up and get slapped like I did a little bit.
I’d also recommend a health boost. I was swimming in the 20% health boosts we get from from daily events so I popped one and while it ultimately wasn’t necessary, it made the fight much less stressful.
This fight is annoying but so was the previous 2 fights. I didn’t solo but didn’t mind use a few revives to finish it off with voodoo. I am sure someone with more skill can solo with my account.
Wonder how people will react when Slashed Tires Juggernaut gets it's turn ...
This will be funny. Man.. that jug still gives me nightmares, especially if he’s gonna come with unblockable sp1. (Tbh he won’t be that much of a pain nowadays with slow/stagger/nullify being much more prevalent than when he was in A4)
Most people don't know the pain of slashed tires juggs. They should make that fight in it's original form and only allow champs that were available back then in their past state.
These are they types of challenges I like to see. Reminds me of Coulson’s and Ming Na’s side events. People were blazing through that content and I was struggling so hard. Managed to complete Ming Na but never did for Coulson’s. Its only day one and there are complaints. At least get through the weekend, watch the different content creators use varying counters or check the different line groups with people showing their strats. It’s call summer of pain for a reason.
Why does he never throw his specials? I was at the right end of the map when he was at a bar of power. I ended up being at the left end by the time he actually threw it. Not only is it a super niche fight but the AI is this horrible?
Jesus. If this many people are whining on week three, imagine what week 9 is going to be like.
These are the best rewards we have ever seen. It’s off the charts. If you don’t think it’s going to be unbelievably difficult you are kidding yourself. You might want to quit now before the coming weeks make your head explode.
Lol imagine asking to have SoP nerfed (himt: The "P" stands for "pain")
I SAID ITS SUMMER OF PAIN NOT SUMMER OF ULTRA-SPECIFIC COUNTERS It's supposed to be skill more than roster strength But i dont even care... cuz we all know Kabam they ain't gonna make it easier All I can hope for is that the next SQ doesn't suck as much as this one
It still causes pain and suffering so title is relevant
The hardest part of this fight, is that I couldn't just open the quest and realize that any of my champs can solo this mysterio, I mean, come on, we all deserve to be able to beat every single fight on this summer of joy and rainbows.
Also, it's not even 24 hours and youtube is full of solo fights with multiple champs, even dr voodoo who is one of the oldest champions and pretty much anyone should have him at any rank, invest a couple of revives and the challenge is succeded.
I myself solo him with apocalypse, it was a very fun fight, from now on I'll be less scared of mysterio's strange movements.
From the comments I've read here I infer that those who can take such challenges as this mysterio want others to not have the pleasure of this event and wish that even the initial bosses be kept impossible for most non-TB rosters. Well, then, we all know that a game dies if it caters only to the interest of the very top players. So RIP MCOC.
This is an incredibly bad take. Im against content like act 6 (particularly old act 6) as permanent misery in the story. But stuff like this, gauntlet and abyss are great! Cavs should not be able to take those challenges on without incredible skill and a fairly well rounded roster, and you seem to want these to be skill-testing... but you're not willing or able to learn mysterios SP1 evasion which uses literally skill testing!
Accept that you are not as skilled as you feel that you are and that you still have at least 1 challenge to master (mysterios sp1) before you can say that you're skilled.
Most content should cater to normal cav players but its very good to have a few things like this for whales and obsessives.
Take abyss out of that, skirmish charges are just a huge revive/unit sink
I've spent maybe 500 units over the last two fights, where am I ever going to get 10k shards for 500 units?
I'll have a go, probably fail and move on with life. I'm just glad to have done the first two.
I wouldnt mind seeing a leaderboard at the end, heck, a legends run prize of a million somethings for the outright fastest to clear all the bosses would be a decent prize for whoever is bad arsed enough to get it done.
If you struggle with consistently dexing Mysterio’s sp1, that is a skill issue. If you are taking too much chip damage to your block, that is a skill issue.
If you play cleanly and intelligently, you could theoretically do this with just about any (ideally poison immune) champ. I would not recommend this because it would be a ridiculously long fight, but it’s an option for a really skilled player.
I don’t know why you invoke having completed 6.3.3 as some kind of milestone that means you should be able to do this. Like, congrats on having done that but it has absolutely nothing to do with this.
Being able to apply poison is a pretty important utility. Lots of champs have it. If you don’t have it in your roster, then this content was not made for you. SoP is not *for* Cavalier players. It is *open* to them. If you can beat it, awesome! If not, keep working at growing your skill and roster. But if you’re going to act as if you are entitled to an easy ride, you will not receive a warm reception.
Comments
Part of why a progressional game like MCOC succeeds and persists is because of aspiration. Players can't have everything handed to them. Players can't even have everything within reach of being acquired. There has to be things outside of their grasp that make progress meaningful. There has to be things you can't do today to provide a reason to get stronger tomorrow. Without that, games like this quickly become boring. First you lose the people at the top, then you lose the people below them when they realize the road they are on leads nowhere. And then you make the game pointless for everyone else.
Most content is doable by most players, or has difficulty variations that most players can do. Story arc content is structured like that, monthly content is structured like that, most side quests are structured like that. Things like the Boss Rushes or the Summer of Pain series are not structured like that. They are meant to be tests, and for them to be effective as tests not everyone can pass. A test everyone passes is meaningless.
People should ask whether they should be playing progressional games at all, because this keeps coming up over and over again. Part of all progressional games is the progressional ladder that gets players from one progressional point to another. If this content is not structured properly, players cannot progress higher. That's a problem, and I've advocated fixing such problems when they exist. But the other part of progressional games are tests of progress, to show players how far they've gotten and how far they have left to go. Sometimes you're going to pass such tests, and sometimes you're going to fail. When you fail, you're supposed to be motivated to get better, not complain about the fact that you're missing out on something. If you can't deal with failure in this part of the game, progressional games are not for you.
The idea that the game only caters to the very highest players is frankly laughable. Very, very little content caters to them directly. The vast majority of content is targeted either at everyone, or at moderate tiers of progress. Things like the Summer of Pain are the very rare exception. And the game should spend most of its effort targeting the moderate middle of players. Things like the Summer of Pain should be the exception not the rule. But anyone arguing that content like the Summer of Pain isn't the exception is just making things up. In the last five years, we've basically had the Maze, the Omega Rush, and the Summer of Pain. And that's basically it for top tier limited time content.
This kind of content rewards that kind of player. Everyone else has to be either extremely lucky or extremely skilled or both.
I'm probably going to be using my 5* iBom for this one. You could say I got lucky pulling him, but as I have almost every 5* champ and deliberately target obvious gaps with featured crystals, I would say I would have had to be astronomically unlucky to *not* have him.
He's also ranked up already, because once again you could say I got lucky, but I would say I was filling a utility hole in my roster so obvious iBom had a neon sign hanging around his neck flashing "rank me, the devs are not going to forget Acid Wash is a thing."
That's how I define "developed."
Also, there's no fight you can do with an R3 you can't do with an R2 with a little more difficulty (or a boost or two), and thus pretty much every fight doable with an R3 is doable (again, with a little more difficulty or an extra revive) with a 5/65. So no one needs a hundred 6* champs to do SoP. They don't even need one. In fact, anyone who jumped to focusing on 6* champs too early, at the expense of having a well developed 5* roster, would actually be at a disadvantage in Summer of Pain. An irony I find to be entirely appropriate.
That's partially why SoP is open to Cavalier and up. Cavalier players are not at a huge disadvantage to Thronebreakers when it comes to the individual fights. A Cav with a strong set of 5/65s is only going to be slightly behind a TB with a ton of R3s. They might not even be the *right* R3s for these fights, erasing almost all of that advantage. Of course, the *average* TB will probably have a stronger 5* roster than the average Cav, but that's due more to the average TB having played the game longer than the average Cav. The downstream objectives are limited to Thronebreakers not because it is impossible for Cavalier players to do them, but simply because they contain rewards that targeted TB players and are not considered appropriate rewards for Cavalier tier players.
Answer: 59. Basically, someone who has opened 59 5* and 6* champion crystals combined has a roughly 99% chance of having at least one of those champs, assuming we're talking about 15 our of 200.
Maybe 1% is still too high a chance of not having one of those counters. How about 99.9%, with a one in a thousand chance of missing all of them. How many crystals does it take to reach those odds? About 89.
I think there are more counters than that (this probably excludes things like super duper prowess Magneto for example, and probably other options people haven't figured out after only a couple hours of thought), but even so, this is one measure of the "restrictiveness" of the content. We would expect 99% of players who have opened at least 59 5* and higher crystals to possess such a counter, and less than one in a thousand players who have opened at least 89 to be missing such a counter.
This also sets aside the fact that anyone complaining that these challenges should be more about "skill" than roster should be willing to take them on with 4* champs. That would be an order of magnitude harder, but that's 100% surmountable with skill (or boosts and revives).
Taking it a step further, I’ve not even used one of my 6* for a summer of pain fight yet. I used ghost, sunspot then man thing all 5/65. Because I ranked them when I needed them 1-3 years ago.
This backs up the very well put point that DNA is making. Content like this rewards roster depth, not “height” - in this case, ranking up more 5*, is more beneficial than ranking up less 6* to rank 3. There is 0 reason a Cav player could not complete as many as, or more fights than a TB as long as they’ve ranked up enough champions to address most conceivable issues in the game. The odds of not pulling one of the 15-100 counters for these summer of pain fights are astronomical.
Seems like it's definitely above my skill grade lol.
Ps
No ibom or bwcv
Making the weakness permanent with the sp3 is huge. Dramatically reduces the incoming damage from Mysterio if you mess up and get slapped like I did a little bit.
I’d also recommend a health boost. I was swimming in the 20% health boosts we get from from daily events so I popped one and while it ultimately wasn’t necessary, it made the fight much less stressful.
Don't back down Kabam. Everything is good till now.
And OP if you can't do it doesn't mean that others can't too. Too many options for the fight, check your knowledge first.
These are the best rewards we have ever seen. It’s off the charts. If you don’t think it’s going to be unbelievably difficult you are kidding yourself. You might want to quit now before the coming weeks make your head explode.
Also, it's not even 24 hours and youtube is full of solo fights with multiple champs, even dr voodoo who is one of the oldest champions and pretty much anyone should have him at any rank, invest a couple of revives and the challenge is succeded.
I myself solo him with apocalypse, it was a very fun fight, from now on I'll be less scared of mysterio's strange movements.
I'll have a go, probably fail and move on with life. I'm just glad to have done the first two.
I wouldnt mind seeing a leaderboard at the end, heck, a legends run prize of a million somethings for the outright fastest to clear all the bosses would be a decent prize for whoever is bad arsed enough to get it done.
Think of SOP as the bouncer at the pub, you're either wearing a shirt and shoes or you are not but the bouncer doesnt care either way.