There is way to much complaining about SOP, stop being upset over the rewards, the game has to go forward and six stars need to be more available as does getting thronebreaker, it’s natural. This event is a great idea an really shows off roster depth and still and is one of the best things kabam has done considering all the bad (summoner event cough cough).
Appreciate something for once, SOP is definitely that something that deserves some appreciation!
There is way to much complaining about SOP, stop being upset over the rewards, the game has to go forward and six stars need to be more available as does getting thronebreaker, it’s natural. This event is a great idea an really shows off roster depth and still and is one of the best things kabam has done considering all the bad (summoner event cough cough).
Appreciate something for once, SOP is definitely that something that deserves some appreciation!
I appreciate your perspective and breakdown of the issue, and by and large would agree with it. The only concern I have that I don’t think you addressed here (and is different from OPs considerations) is that there hasn’t really been a point to r3 champions yet outside of Prestige and Alliance War, and that’s disappointing.
I feel as though in my progression, there was a point to every tier of champion. The rankups felt meaningful because they gave me a tool I needed to climb the next rung. I ranked champions to r3 expecting to have some need for them in content that just never materialized and now we’re going to r4. Just feels empty.
Part of that is due to the fact we're trying to judge the game's growth while standing in the middle of it, part of that is due to the fact that rank 3s don't mean what most people think they mean, and part of that is due to how content is created today.
First of all, taking a champ from rank 2 to rank 3 is not actually increasing that champion's strength by as much as most rank up increases do. Most rank up increases increase the champion's attack and health by on the order of 35% or so. This actually increases the champion's strength by over 80% (how that's determined is a separate discussion). So in loose terms, every rank up is almost doubling the champion's strength, at least in terms of its attack and health values. But going from 6* rank 2 to rank 3 you get only half that rise, which translates to less than half the total strength increase. This rank up is much less dramatic, and thus cannot come with the same kind of rise in content difficulty. It is just a much smaller jump.
And second, the way difficult content is designed is now different. In the past, the primary scaler of difficulty was simply increasing attack and health values for the defenders, analogous to what we were doing to our champions with rank ups. So if the devs unlocked a new rank up for us, they could respond with increasing the difficulty of the content by an equal or higher amount with simple numbers/node fiddling. But that's not how difficult content is constructed today. The design ethic is now to use interlocking nodes that offer "RPG-like" ways to counter them. In other words, part of how we deal with difficult content is to bring stronger champs, part is how well we play the game, and part is how we read and understand the nodes and respond tactically (with roster options or playstyle choices). That last part didn't really exist in the past, and is becoming more important now. Because of that, a lot of the "difficulty increases" in current content are happening in ways that many of the top players don't find particularly challenging. They are knowledgeable and experienced, they understand the game's tactics and interactions, and when knowledge of those things is challenged it is easy for them to respond. But most players find these things very difficult or unfamiliar, and for them the content is actually much harder.
For those of us that are knowledgeable veterans, those kinds of difficulty increases are easy to dismiss. They don't challenge us. But they are the way difficulty is constructed now, and that makes some of the difficulty in the game "invisible" to us. It doesn't require stronger champs, it just requires learning things we already know.
Eventually I hope that changes, in the sense that as players get used to the kinds of mental challenges we see in say Act 7, the devs will continue to ratchet them upwards until they can eventually challenge even knowledgeable players. I actually thought Summer of Pain might be that, but it didn't turn out that way. We'll have to see if and when the game evolves to the point where that becomes more commonplace.
This.
As long as it’s a “challenge” based on game knowledge, it won’t work, because of this thing called YouTube, where knowledgeable players break down and recommend counters for the puzzle, and further fueling the “I do not have xxx and yyy champ because of rng and am unable to do this piece of content” myth.
It’s like looking at the answer sheet while trying to solve a sudoku puzzle. How is that challenging?
As long as it’s a “challenge” based on game knowledge, it won’t work, because of this thing called YouTube, where knowledgeable players break down and recommend counters for the puzzle, and further fueling the “I do not have xxx and yyy champ because of rng and am unable to do this piece of content” myth.
I'm sure there's a lot of that as well: it is a lot easier to use someone else's cheese than figure it out yourself.
Although I have a lot less sympathy for someone who claims the game isn't challenging because they just copied what someone on Youtube did. Challenges like this can't eliminate the complaints, because of course too many people will look at the back of the book then claim they did it all on their own. But they can at least offer challenges to those who genuinely want to be challenged and don't cheat themselves out of the experience.
People will complain when it's too hard, people will complain when it's not hard enough. It's a game, so enjoy playing and stop blabbering about why cavs getting to tb is such a bad thing.
As long as it’s a “challenge” based on game knowledge, it won’t work, because of this thing called YouTube, where knowledgeable players break down and recommend counters for the puzzle, and further fueling the “I do not have xxx and yyy champ because of rng and am unable to do this piece of content” myth.
I'm sure there's a lot of that as well: it is a lot easier to use someone else's cheese than figure it out yourself.
Although I have a lot less sympathy for someone who claims the game isn't challenging because they just copied what someone on Youtube did. Challenges like this can't eliminate the complaints, because of course too many people will look at the back of the book then claim they did it all on their own. But they can at least offer challenges to those who genuinely want to be challenged and don't cheat themselves out of the experience.
Yeah that’s true. It’s pretty fun to try out diff champs on the roster and see what works and what doesn’t.
Then realize there’s cheese methods shown on YouTube after you’ve done it. It’s always the 🤦🏻♂️ moments that get me. 😂
As long as it’s a “challenge” based on game knowledge, it won’t work, because of this thing called YouTube, where knowledgeable players break down and recommend counters for the puzzle, and further fueling the “I do not have xxx and yyy champ because of rng and am unable to do this piece of content” myth.
I'm sure there's a lot of that as well: it is a lot easier to use someone else's cheese than figure it out yourself.
Although I have a lot less sympathy for someone who claims the game isn't challenging because they just copied what someone on Youtube did. Challenges like this can't eliminate the complaints, because of course too many people will look at the back of the book then claim they did it all on their own. But they can at least offer challenges to those who genuinely want to be challenged and don't cheat themselves out of the experience.
I love reading your writing, I've seen you everywhere and you always make a valid point every time. You're like the Barack Obama of MCOC.
I love SoP so far, I think it’s been a wonderful event, and the rewards are awesome.
A bit too awesome at the moment
As of right now any cav players with mediocre skills or some unitd, even ones on 6.2, are going to receive 50% t5cc in selectors at the end. If the next 2 fights are close to the same difficulty, that will be 75% t5cc.
We are going to be having cav players working through 6.2 and beyond with a r3 6*, which are usually so difficult to obtain that it’s quickest to get abyss done. Nearly every cav player that has 6.4 done is guaranteed tb, and anyone before that is getting tb right with 6.4 completion.
Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3.
Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.
There’s not really a solution other than a nerf, which would be a HORRIBLE decision, so there’s not really any options left here.
I just wanted to do a quick explanation of why I think content like this needs either higher difficulty by a lot or less rewards, because it’s bad for the game as a whole.
I can't disagree enough, honestly, we Cavs have been thrown aside and gotten the butt end of things for the past year I'd say be it this year's July 4th, last year's Cyber weekend. For once we have a chance to progress and move on. Not every Cav player has the 6* roster or the additional 25% of the T5cc but, t's our one shortcut to TB and I'm sure in no time there will be a new title arriving with 7.4 producing even better rewards. But honestly quit being so salty and move on, Its great that this event has been put out so that we can progress. Please.... spare us the complaining.
I love SoP so far, I think it’s been a wonderful event, and the rewards are awesome.
A bit too awesome at the moment
As of right now any cav players with mediocre skills or some unitd, even ones on 6.2, are going to receive 50% t5cc in selectors at the end. If the next 2 fights are close to the same difficulty, that will be 75% t5cc.
We are going to be having cav players working through 6.2 and beyond with a r3 6*, which are usually so difficult to obtain that it’s quickest to get abyss done. Nearly every cav player that has 6.4 done is guaranteed tb, and anyone before that is getting tb right with 6.4 completion.
Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3.
Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.
There’s not really a solution other than a nerf, which would be a HORRIBLE decision, so there’s not really any options left here.
I just wanted to do a quick explanation of why I think content like this needs either higher difficulty by a lot or less rewards, because it’s bad for the game as a whole.
I can't disagree enough, honestly, we Cavs have been thrown aside and gotten the butt end of things for the past year I'd say be it this year's July 4th, last year's Cyber weekend. For once we have a chance to progress and move on. Not every Cav player has the 6* roster or the additional 25% of the T5cc but, t's our one shortcut to TB and I'm sure in no time there will be a new title arriving with 7.4 producing even better rewards. But honestly quit being so salty and move on, Its great that this event has been put out so that we can progress. Please.... spare us the complaining.
The thing that a lot of Cavs don’t really get about this debate is that if you need 75% of a selector to get a shortcut to TB, you’re not really the target of becoming TB.
Before SoP, TB wasn’t aimed at someone with 25% of one T5cc. That is the issue that is being brought up in the thread. That isn’t a veteran Cav player. That is literally someone who has done 1 run through of act 6 and you need 1 good 6* and that’s it. You can select an entire t5cc for them.
I love SoP so far, I think it’s been a wonderful event, and the rewards are awesome.
A bit too awesome at the moment
As of right now any cav players with mediocre skills or some unitd, even ones on 6.2, are going to receive 50% t5cc in selectors at the end. If the next 2 fights are close to the same difficulty, that will be 75% t5cc.
We are going to be having cav players working through 6.2 and beyond with a r3 6*, which are usually so difficult to obtain that it’s quickest to get abyss done. Nearly every cav player that has 6.4 done is guaranteed tb, and anyone before that is getting tb right with 6.4 completion.
Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3.
Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.
There’s not really a solution other than a nerf, which would be a HORRIBLE decision, so there’s not really any options left here.
I just wanted to do a quick explanation of why I think content like this needs either higher difficulty by a lot or less rewards, because it’s bad for the game as a whole.
I can't disagree enough, honestly, we Cavs have been thrown aside and gotten the butt end of things for the past year I'd say be it this year's July 4th, last year's Cyber weekend. For once we have a chance to progress and move on. Not every Cav player has the 6* roster or the additional 25% of the T5cc but, t's our one shortcut to TB and I'm sure in no time there will be a new title arriving with 7.4 producing even better rewards. But honestly quit being so salty and move on, Its great that this event has been put out so that we can progress. Please.... spare us the complaining.
The thing that a lot of Cavs don’t really get about this debate is that if you need 75% of a selector to get a shortcut to TB, you’re not really the target of becoming TB.
Before SoP, TB wasn’t aimed at someone with 25% of one T5cc. That is the issue that is being brought up in the thread. That isn’t a veteran Cav player. That is literally someone who has done 1 run through of act 6 and you need 1 good 6* and that’s it. You can select an entire t5cc for them.
That’s actually exactly who kabam intended to be thronebreaker. 1 run through of act 6 and having an r3 six star. If it was otherwise they would have made the requirement different. Almost a year in to the title, they are just making it easier to get there. I don’t see anything really wrong in that.
I love SoP so far, I think it’s been a wonderful event, and the rewards are awesome.
A bit too awesome at the moment
As of right now any cav players with mediocre skills or some unitd, even ones on 6.2, are going to receive 50% t5cc in selectors at the end. If the next 2 fights are close to the same difficulty, that will be 75% t5cc.
We are going to be having cav players working through 6.2 and beyond with a r3 6*, which are usually so difficult to obtain that it’s quickest to get abyss done. Nearly every cav player that has 6.4 done is guaranteed tb, and anyone before that is getting tb right with 6.4 completion.
Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3.
Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.
There’s not really a solution other than a nerf, which would be a HORRIBLE decision, so there’s not really any options left here.
I just wanted to do a quick explanation of why I think content like this needs either higher difficulty by a lot or less rewards, because it’s bad for the game as a whole.
I can't disagree enough, honestly, we Cavs have been thrown aside and gotten the butt end of things for the past year I'd say be it this year's July 4th, last year's Cyber weekend. For once we have a chance to progress and move on. Not every Cav player has the 6* roster or the additional 25% of the T5cc but, t's our one shortcut to TB and I'm sure in no time there will be a new title arriving with 7.4 producing even better rewards. But honestly quit being so salty and move on, Its great that this event has been put out so that we can progress. Please.... spare us the complaining.
The thing that a lot of Cavs don’t really get about this debate is that if you need 75% of a selector to get a shortcut to TB, you’re not really the target of becoming TB.
Before SoP, TB wasn’t aimed at someone with 25% of one T5cc. That is the issue that is being brought up in the thread. That isn’t a veteran Cav player. That is literally someone who has done 1 run through of act 6 and you need 1 good 6* and that’s it. You can select an entire t5cc for them.
That’s actually exactly who kabam intended to be thronebreaker. 1 run through of act 6 and having an r3 six star. If it was otherwise they would have made the requirement different. Almost a year in to the title, they are just making it easier to get there. I don’t see anything really wrong in that.
@BitterSteel i think this is correct. There a tug of war between the business side of the game and the design side. The business side trumps the design side - design probably came up with a stringent set of requirements and then business was like "lol wtf are you doing? Make it much lower and we will "let" people who have it buy nicer things".
Now they're trying to pull in more to spend $$.
It may or may not be good for the game but I think viewing the title too much from the aspect of accomplishment ignores how this game works.
Or, it's just the natural progression of progression based mobile games. New high tier rewards/tiles are a year old, it's time to move people forward to get ready for the next tier/rewards.
I love SoP so far, I think it’s been a wonderful event, and the rewards are awesome.
A bit too awesome at the moment
As of right now any cav players with mediocre skills or some unitd, even ones on 6.2, are going to receive 50% t5cc in selectors at the end. If the next 2 fights are close to the same difficulty, that will be 75% t5cc.
We are going to be having cav players working through 6.2 and beyond with a r3 6*, which are usually so difficult to obtain that it’s quickest to get abyss done. Nearly every cav player that has 6.4 done is guaranteed tb, and anyone before that is getting tb right with 6.4 completion.
Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3.
Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.
There’s not really a solution other than a nerf, which would be a HORRIBLE decision, so there’s not really any options left here.
I just wanted to do a quick explanation of why I think content like this needs either higher difficulty by a lot or less rewards, because it’s bad for the game as a whole.
I can't disagree enough, honestly, we Cavs have been thrown aside and gotten the butt end of things for the past year I'd say be it this year's July 4th, last year's Cyber weekend. For once we have a chance to progress and move on. Not every Cav player has the 6* roster or the additional 25% of the T5cc but, t's our one shortcut to TB and I'm sure in no time there will be a new title arriving with 7.4 producing even better rewards. But honestly quit being so salty and move on, Its great that this event has been put out so that we can progress. Please.... spare us the complaining.
The thing that a lot of Cavs don’t really get about this debate is that if you need 75% of a selector to get a shortcut to TB, you’re not really the target of becoming TB.
Before SoP, TB wasn’t aimed at someone with 25% of one T5cc. That is the issue that is being brought up in the thread. That isn’t a veteran Cav player. That is literally someone who has done 1 run through of act 6 and you need 1 good 6* and that’s it. You can select an entire t5cc for them.
That’s actually exactly who kabam intended to be thronebreaker. 1 run through of act 6 and having an r3 six star. If it was otherwise they would have made the requirement different. Almost a year in to the title, they are just making it easier to get there. I don’t see anything really wrong in that.
Actually, I'm directly aware of the fact that the original intent for Thronebreaker was to define the next tier of progress as players who a) have reached some pinnacle of content achievement and b) have on their own progressed to the point that they are now focused primarily on ranking 6* champs over 5* champs to the highest available rank, i.e. rank 3.
The two questions were: one: how to decide what the content achievement would be, and two: how to demonstrate that the player had moved on to 6* rank ups.
We all know the first one: they settled on first time completion of Act 6. Lots of reasons why: primarily that story arc content is the primary non-optional progressional permanent content, and it is defined to be completable with reasonable rosters but not necessarily explorable for average players in a reasonable amount of time. The second one was trickier. We came very, very, very close to having the requirement be three R3s. The logic being anyone that has been ranking up 6* champs to R3 for a while should have a few. "Three" was a reasonable proxy for "a few." But the question of random effects came up. Suppose a player was doing everything that all other Thronebreaker-caliber players were doing, opening the same amount of 6* crystals and gathering the same amount of T5C, but just didn't pull the trigger on the rank ups. Maybe they were waiting for better choices. Maybe they were in an alliance that placed rank up requirements on them. Maybe they were deep in the prestige race and didn't want to rank up low prestige champs. They could easily have three or five or eight R3s, but just hadn't done so yet.
As a concession to that situation, the devs lowered the requirement to one. The presumption was that any player who was genuinely Thronebreaker caliber - defined to be players who were at the very top of the game and doing everything they could to focus on 6* rank ups - would have at least *one* R3, or would be willing to trivially rank up a suboptimal champ for the title. Because what is one rank up for such a player? Even if they were sitting on all their T5C, they could spare one to get the title.
The intended target was not players who could make one R3 rank up. The intended target was players who could *easily* do an R3 rank up, without thinking twice, either because the costs were trivial, or because they did it already. That seemed close to the same intent that "three" was. And that is the intended target for Thronebreaker. The requirement cannot be "everyone who can easily do a rank 3" because there's no way to define "easily." They didn't want to make it three because many players who *could* do three didn't do it yet and forcing them to make several rank ups for TB seemed excessive. So the requirement was set to one as a compromise.
I love SoP so far, I think it’s been a wonderful event, and the rewards are awesome.
A bit too awesome at the moment
As of right now any cav players with mediocre skills or some unitd, even ones on 6.2, are going to receive 50% t5cc in selectors at the end. If the next 2 fights are close to the same difficulty, that will be 75% t5cc.
We are going to be having cav players working through 6.2 and beyond with a r3 6*, which are usually so difficult to obtain that it’s quickest to get abyss done. Nearly every cav player that has 6.4 done is guaranteed tb, and anyone before that is getting tb right with 6.4 completion.
Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3.
Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.
There’s not really a solution other than a nerf, which would be a HORRIBLE decision, so there’s not really any options left here.
I just wanted to do a quick explanation of why I think content like this needs either higher difficulty by a lot or less rewards, because it’s bad for the game as a whole.
I can't disagree enough, honestly, we Cavs have been thrown aside and gotten the butt end of things for the past year I'd say be it this year's July 4th, last year's Cyber weekend. For once we have a chance to progress and move on. Not every Cav player has the 6* roster or the additional 25% of the T5cc but, t's our one shortcut to TB and I'm sure in no time there will be a new title arriving with 7.4 producing even better rewards. But honestly quit being so salty and move on, Its great that this event has been put out so that we can progress. Please.... spare us the complaining.
The thing that a lot of Cavs don’t really get about this debate is that if you need 75% of a selector to get a shortcut to TB, you’re not really the target of becoming TB.
Before SoP, TB wasn’t aimed at someone with 25% of one T5cc. That is the issue that is being brought up in the thread. That isn’t a veteran Cav player. That is literally someone who has done 1 run through of act 6 and you need 1 good 6* and that’s it. You can select an entire t5cc for them.
That’s actually exactly who kabam intended to be thronebreaker. 1 run through of act 6 and having an r3 six star. If it was otherwise they would have made the requirement different. Almost a year in to the title, they are just making it easier to get there. I don’t see anything really wrong in that.
Actually, I'm directly aware of the fact that the original intent for Thronebreaker was to define the next tier of progress as players who a) have reached some pinnacle of content achievement and b) have on their own progressed to the point that they are now focused primarily on ranking 6* champs over 5* champs to the highest available rank, i.e. rank 3.
The two questions were: one: how to decide what the content achievement would be, and two: how to demonstrate that the player had moved on to 6* rank ups.
We all know the first one: they settled on first time completion of Act 6. Lots of reasons why: primarily that story arc content is the primary non-optional progressional permanent content, and it is defined to be completable with reasonable rosters but not necessarily explorable for average players in a reasonable amount of time. The second one was trickier. We came very, very, very close to having the requirement be three R3s. The logic being anyone that has been ranking up 6* champs to R3 for a while should have a few. "Three" was a reasonable proxy for "a few." But the question of random effects came up. Suppose a player was doing everything that all other Thronebreaker-caliber players were doing, opening the same amount of 6* crystals and gathering the same amount of T5C, but just didn't pull the trigger on the rank ups. Maybe they were waiting for better choices. Maybe they were in an alliance that placed rank up requirements on them. Maybe they were deep in the prestige race and didn't want to rank up low prestige champs. They could easily have three or five or eight R3s, but just hadn't done so yet.
As a concession to that situation, the devs lowered the requirement to one. The presumption was that any player who was genuinely Thronebreaker caliber - defined to be players who were at the very top of the game and doing everything they could to focus on 6* rank ups - would have at least *one* R3, or would be willing to trivially rank up a suboptimal champ for the title. Because what is one rank up for such a player? Even if they were sitting on all their T5C, they could spare one to get the title.
The intended target was not players who could make one R3 rank up. The intended target was players who could *easily* do an R3 rank up, without thinking twice, either because the costs were trivial, or because they did it already. That seemed close to the same intent that "three" was. And that is the intended target for Thronebreaker. The requirement cannot be "everyone who can easily do a rank 3" because there's no way to define "easily." They didn't want to make it three because many players who *could* do three didn't do it yet and forcing them to make several rank ups for TB seemed excessive. So the requirement was set to one as a compromise.
I completely agree with you on the original intent. But once kabam decided to make it completion of act 6 and a single r3 as a requirement, it kind of is a moot point as to who was the original target for the said title. Whatever requirement has been set is what needs to be fulfilled. And as @walkerdog pointed out, the business side of kabam decided to make t5cc available more easily probably to have the title more accessible to more people.
I love SoP so far, I think it’s been a wonderful event, and the rewards are awesome.
A bit too awesome at the moment
As of right now any cav players with mediocre skills or some unitd, even ones on 6.2, are going to receive 50% t5cc in selectors at the end. If the next 2 fights are close to the same difficulty, that will be 75% t5cc.
We are going to be having cav players working through 6.2 and beyond with a r3 6*, which are usually so difficult to obtain that it’s quickest to get abyss done. Nearly every cav player that has 6.4 done is guaranteed tb, and anyone before that is getting tb right with 6.4 completion.
Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3.
Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.
There’s not really a solution other than a nerf, which would be a HORRIBLE decision, so there’s not really any options left here.
I just wanted to do a quick explanation of why I think content like this needs either higher difficulty by a lot or less rewards, because it’s bad for the game as a whole.
I can't disagree enough, honestly, we Cavs have been thrown aside and gotten the butt end of things for the past year I'd say be it this year's July 4th, last year's Cyber weekend. For once we have a chance to progress and move on. Not every Cav player has the 6* roster or the additional 25% of the T5cc but, t's our one shortcut to TB and I'm sure in no time there will be a new title arriving with 7.4 producing even better rewards. But honestly quit being so salty and move on, Its great that this event has been put out so that we can progress. Please.... spare us the complaining.
The thing that a lot of Cavs don’t really get about this debate is that if you need 75% of a selector to get a shortcut to TB, you’re not really the target of becoming TB.
Before SoP, TB wasn’t aimed at someone with 25% of one T5cc. That is the issue that is being brought up in the thread. That isn’t a veteran Cav player. That is literally someone who has done 1 run through of act 6 and you need 1 good 6* and that’s it. You can select an entire t5cc for them.
That’s actually exactly who kabam intended to be thronebreaker. 1 run through of act 6 and having an r3 six star. If it was otherwise they would have made the requirement different. Almost a year in to the title, they are just making it easier to get there. I don’t see anything really wrong in that.
Actually, I'm directly aware of the fact that the original intent for Thronebreaker was to define the next tier of progress as players who a) have reached some pinnacle of content achievement and b) have on their own progressed to the point that they are now focused primarily on ranking 6* champs over 5* champs to the highest available rank, i.e. rank 3.
The two questions were: one: how to decide what the content achievement would be, and two: how to demonstrate that the player had moved on to 6* rank ups.
We all know the first one: they settled on first time completion of Act 6. Lots of reasons why: primarily that story arc content is the primary non-optional progressional permanent content, and it is defined to be completable with reasonable rosters but not necessarily explorable for average players in a reasonable amount of time. The second one was trickier. We came very, very, very close to having the requirement be three R3s. The logic being anyone that has been ranking up 6* champs to R3 for a while should have a few. "Three" was a reasonable proxy for "a few." But the question of random effects came up. Suppose a player was doing everything that all other Thronebreaker-caliber players were doing, opening the same amount of 6* crystals and gathering the same amount of T5C, but just didn't pull the trigger on the rank ups. Maybe they were waiting for better choices. Maybe they were in an alliance that placed rank up requirements on them. Maybe they were deep in the prestige race and didn't want to rank up low prestige champs. They could easily have three or five or eight R3s, but just hadn't done so yet.
As a concession to that situation, the devs lowered the requirement to one. The presumption was that any player who was genuinely Thronebreaker caliber - defined to be players who were at the very top of the game and doing everything they could to focus on 6* rank ups - would have at least *one* R3, or would be willing to trivially rank up a suboptimal champ for the title. Because what is one rank up for such a player? Even if they were sitting on all their T5C, they could spare one to get the title.
The intended target was not players who could make one R3 rank up. The intended target was players who could *easily* do an R3 rank up, without thinking twice, either because the costs were trivial, or because they did it already. That seemed close to the same intent that "three" was. And that is the intended target for Thronebreaker. The requirement cannot be "everyone who can easily do a rank 3" because there's no way to define "easily." They didn't want to make it three because many players who *could* do three didn't do it yet and forcing them to make several rank ups for TB seemed excessive. So the requirement was set to one as a compromise.
I completely agree with you on the original intent. But once kabam decided to make it completion of act 6 and a single r3 as a requirement, it kind of is a moot point as to who was the original target for the said title. Whatever requirement has been set is what needs to be fulfilled. And as @walkerdog pointed out, the business side of kabam decided to make t5cc available more easily probably to have the title more accessible to more people.
It isn't a moot point, because there are still tons of people who say "RNG is holding me back from becoming Thronebreaker." RNG isn't holding anyone back from becoming Thronebreaker. Not doing all the things players were doing to become top tier progress players is holding you back from becoming Thronebreaker. If you can't afford to buy the house you want, not having a high paying job is holding you back, not failing to win the lottery.
At the end of the day, though, you're correct that since Kabam set the requirements the way they did, them's the rules and we can't fault any player who becomes Thronebreaker by achieving the title through any available means. We can, however, be on our guard for signs of title entitlement. People today say that because they are now Cavalier, all Cavalier content should be targeted at them personally, and if they can't do it the content is too hard, and if the rewards are unpalatable to them then the rewards are inappropriate. Achieving a progress title puts you into that tier of progress, it does not entitle anyone to plant a flag and declare that the title must now serve their interests.
I think that's what people are most afraid of, and I think it is a valid complaint. I'm all in favor of having reasonable progress paths for average players with average time and resources, and Thronebreaker is no exception. There must be a path to TB for average skill, average time, average resource players. Eventually for some definition of eventually. But I also think that players should not expect everything to be designed with them personally in mind. TB content has to address a wide range of TB players. Some of it will be too easy for the top TBs, and they need to calm down about it. And some of it will be too hard for people who advanced into TB early, and they need to suck it up because they need to understand that if they advance faster than their thumbs and wallets can support, they will run into walls. That's life.
I think more players will get to TB before they are really ready, and that will cause some temporary problems for the game. But I think the overall game economy and progress ladder will adjust to this, and I don't think those players will be able to apply significant pressure to water down the game any more than Kabam is already willing to do. For Cavalier players happy that TB is giving them that last push into TB, I'm happy for them, really. I don't feel like they are devaluing my efforts in the game in the slightest. But once they get here, if they think they are going to take over the place and recreate it in their image, I'm going to part ways with them and ask the devs to obliterate them in their sleep with nightmarish content. Because if they wanted into the TB clubhouse, they have to eat what we eat.
I love SoP so far, I think it’s been a wonderful event, and the rewards are awesome.
A bit too awesome at the moment
As of right now any cav players with mediocre skills or some unitd, even ones on 6.2, are going to receive 50% t5cc in selectors at the end. If the next 2 fights are close to the same difficulty, that will be 75% t5cc.
We are going to be having cav players working through 6.2 and beyond with a r3 6*, which are usually so difficult to obtain that it’s quickest to get abyss done. Nearly every cav player that has 6.4 done is guaranteed tb, and anyone before that is getting tb right with 6.4 completion.
Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3.
Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.
There’s not really a solution other than a nerf, which would be a HORRIBLE decision, so there’s not really any options left here.
I just wanted to do a quick explanation of why I think content like this needs either higher difficulty by a lot or less rewards, because it’s bad for the game as a whole.
I can't disagree enough, honestly, we Cavs have been thrown aside and gotten the butt end of things for the past year I'd say be it this year's July 4th, last year's Cyber weekend. For once we have a chance to progress and move on. Not every Cav player has the 6* roster or the additional 25% of the T5cc but, t's our one shortcut to TB and I'm sure in no time there will be a new title arriving with 7.4 producing even better rewards. But honestly quit being so salty and move on, Its great that this event has been put out so that we can progress. Please.... spare us the complaining.
The thing that a lot of Cavs don’t really get about this debate is that if you need 75% of a selector to get a shortcut to TB, you’re not really the target of becoming TB.
Before SoP, TB wasn’t aimed at someone with 25% of one T5cc. That is the issue that is being brought up in the thread. That isn’t a veteran Cav player. That is literally someone who has done 1 run through of act 6 and you need 1 good 6* and that’s it. You can select an entire t5cc for them.
That’s actually exactly who kabam intended to be thronebreaker. 1 run through of act 6 and having an r3 six star. If it was otherwise they would have made the requirement different. Almost a year in to the title, they are just making it easier to get there. I don’t see anything really wrong in that.
Actually, I'm directly aware of the fact that the original intent for Thronebreaker was to define the next tier of progress as players who a) have reached some pinnacle of content achievement and b) have on their own progressed to the point that they are now focused primarily on ranking 6* champs over 5* champs to the highest available rank, i.e. rank 3.
The two questions were: one: how to decide what the content achievement would be, and two: how to demonstrate that the player had moved on to 6* rank ups.
We all know the first one: they settled on first time completion of Act 6. Lots of reasons why: primarily that story arc content is the primary non-optional progressional permanent content, and it is defined to be completable with reasonable rosters but not necessarily explorable for average players in a reasonable amount of time. The second one was trickier. We came very, very, very close to having the requirement be three R3s. The logic being anyone that has been ranking up 6* champs to R3 for a while should have a few. "Three" was a reasonable proxy for "a few." But the question of random effects came up. Suppose a player was doing everything that all other Thronebreaker-caliber players were doing, opening the same amount of 6* crystals and gathering the same amount of T5C, but just didn't pull the trigger on the rank ups. Maybe they were waiting for better choices. Maybe they were in an alliance that placed rank up requirements on them. Maybe they were deep in the prestige race and didn't want to rank up low prestige champs. They could easily have three or five or eight R3s, but just hadn't done so yet.
As a concession to that situation, the devs lowered the requirement to one. The presumption was that any player who was genuinely Thronebreaker caliber - defined to be players who were at the very top of the game and doing everything they could to focus on 6* rank ups - would have at least *one* R3, or would be willing to trivially rank up a suboptimal champ for the title. Because what is one rank up for such a player? Even if they were sitting on all their T5C, they could spare one to get the title.
The intended target was not players who could make one R3 rank up. The intended target was players who could *easily* do an R3 rank up, without thinking twice, either because the costs were trivial, or because they did it already. That seemed close to the same intent that "three" was. And that is the intended target for Thronebreaker. The requirement cannot be "everyone who can easily do a rank 3" because there's no way to define "easily." They didn't want to make it three because many players who *could* do three didn't do it yet and forcing them to make several rank ups for TB seemed excessive. So the requirement was set to one as a compromise.
I completely agree with you on the original intent. But once kabam decided to make it completion of act 6 and a single r3 as a requirement, it kind of is a moot point as to who was the original target for the said title. Whatever requirement has been set is what needs to be fulfilled. And as @walkerdog pointed out, the business side of kabam decided to make t5cc available more easily probably to have the title more accessible to more people.
It isn't a moot point, because there are still tons of people who say "RNG is holding me back from becoming Thronebreaker." RNG isn't holding anyone back from becoming Thronebreaker. Not doing all the things players were doing to become top tier progress players is holding you back from becoming Thronebreaker. If you can't afford to buy the house you want, not having a high paying job is holding you back, not failing to win the lottery.
At the end of the day, though, you're correct that since Kabam set the requirements the way they did, them's the rules and we can't fault any player who becomes Thronebreaker by achieving the title through any available means. We can, however, be on our guard for signs of title entitlement. People today say that because they are now Cavalier, all Cavalier content should be targeted at them personally, and if they can't do it the content is too hard, and if the rewards are unpalatable to them then the rewards are inappropriate. Achieving a progress title puts you into that tier of progress, it does not entitle anyone to plant a flag and declare that the title must now serve their interests.
I think that's what people are most afraid of, and I think it is a valid complaint. I'm all in favor of having reasonable progress paths for average players with average time and resources, and Thronebreaker is no exception. There must be a path to TB for average skill, average time, average resource players. Eventually for some definition of eventually. But I also think that players should not expect everything to be designed with them personally in mind. TB content has to address a wide range of TB players. Some of it will be too easy for the top TBs, and they need to calm down about it. And some of it will be too hard for people who advanced into TB early, and they need to suck it up because they need to understand that if they advance faster than their thumbs and wallets can support, they will run into walls. That's life.
I think more players will get to TB before they are really ready, and that will cause some temporary problems for the game. But I think the overall game economy and progress ladder will adjust to this, and I don't think those players will be able to apply significant pressure to water down the game any more than Kabam is already willing to do. For Cavalier players happy that TB is giving them that last push into TB, I'm happy for them, really. I don't feel like they are devaluing my efforts in the game in the slightest. But once they get here, if they think they are going to take over the place and recreate it in their image, I'm going to part ways with them and ask the devs to obliterate them in their sleep with nightmarish content. Because if they wanted into the TB clubhouse, they have to eat what we eat.
I see your point. And we are both on the same page when it comes to critiquing the difficulty of content or having a sense of entitlement just because of the title. And with this being temporary content, I am of the same opinion as you that this will not have a huge impact on the overall game economy.
I'd wager most cavs that will qualify after this event dont even have a viable 6r2 champ to take to TB but will simply for the title and it will be a long time before those that do have someone worthy enough to rank again, let alone even see another t5cc.
I don't disagree that its been an easy event so far and nothing like what was promised but me taking unduped NF to R3 for a title won't make much difference to anyone, probably not even myself.
We’ll just wait for them to hit another wall when the increased rank steamrolling doesn’t compensate for the skills (that they haven’t built up) they lack.
Too many words to get through. The more posts I see the more I’m worried that the OP is saying that the rewards are TOO good for the difficulty..meaning it’s too easy.
Nothing “easy” about this sop.
1- need the right champ 2- need patience 3- need skill.
Take the dark hawk one with “easy” magneto solo. Nothing “easy” about it. You still needed to survive to get 2-3 L3’s. You can use revives, you can also use them on any challenge.
Too many words to get through. The more posts I see the more I’m worried that the OP is saying that the rewards are TOO good for the difficulty..meaning it’s too easy.
Nothing “easy” about this sop.
1- need the right champ 2- need patience 3- need skill.
Take the dark hawk one with “easy” magneto solo. Nothing “easy” about it. You still needed to survive to get 2-3 L3’s. You can use revives, you can also use them on any challenge.
I lost interest in this..sorry 😂. As you were
I used torch on darkhawk for an easy solo. Like literally any champ can solo the fight if you have a helpful AI
Too many words to get through. The more posts I see the more I’m worried that the OP is saying that the rewards are TOO good for the difficulty..meaning it’s too easy.
Nothing “easy” about this sop.
1- need the right champ 2- need patience 3- need skill.
Take the dark hawk one with “easy” magneto solo. Nothing “easy” about it. You still needed to survive to get 2-3 L3’s. You can use revives, you can also use them on any challenge.
I lost interest in this..sorry 😂. As you were
When the hardest part of a fight meant to "challenge those who completed abyss on vacation" is to survive a few L1s and not get hit, that's a problem.
We’ll just wait for them to hit another wall when the increased rank steamrolling doesn’t compensate for the skills (that they haven’t built up) they lack.
Not everyone does have skills as many on hear seem to be saying. However, i am sure in many cases it is not from a lack of effort. Should they quit the game or be encouraged by offering them some assistance. It has been awhile time since TB was introduced. I really don’t see a big issue.
We’ll just wait for them to hit another wall when the increased rank steamrolling doesn’t compensate for the skills (that they haven’t built up) they lack.
Not everyone does have skills as many on hear seem to be saying. However, i am sure in many cases it is not from a lack of effort. Should they quit the game or be encouraged by offering them some assistance. It has been awhile time since TB was introduced. I really don’t see a big issue.
Skills can be trained. Experience is the number 1 teacher of skills and knowledge.
Being able to mow through content with overly ranked champs stop that process and causes more harm than good in the long run.
I feel sad for new players who are going through A4 if they get a 6* CG or Ghost. Cause inevitably, the bulk of those who do will be able to trivialize content meant to help them grow as a player.
We’ll just wait for them to hit another wall when the increased rank steamrolling doesn’t compensate for the skills (that they haven’t built up) they lack.
Not everyone does have skills as many on hear seem to be saying. However, i am sure in many cases it is not from a lack of effort. Should they quit the game or be encouraged by offering them some assistance. It has been awhile time since TB was introduced. I really don’t see a big issue.
Skills can be trained. Experience is the number 1 teacher of skills and knowledge.
Being able to mow through content with overly ranked champs stop that process and causes more harm than good in the long run.
I feel sad for new players who are going through A4 if they get a 6* CG or Ghost. Cause inevitably, the bulk of those who do will be able to trivialize content meant to help them grow as a player.
With the length of time it takes to amass a T5CC, skill is rarely the issue. In fact, I seem to remember that being the argument with the requirements, that RNG is not skill-based. In terms of Kabam's requirements, you need to be skilled enough to complete Act 6. The second objective is a matter of amassing enough Frags to Rank a Champ.
We’ll just wait for them to hit another wall when the increased rank steamrolling doesn’t compensate for the skills (that they haven’t built up) they lack.
Not everyone does have skills as many on hear seem to be saying. However, i am sure in many cases it is not from a lack of effort. Should they quit the game or be encouraged by offering them some assistance. It has been awhile time since TB was introduced. I really don’t see a big issue.
Skills can be trained. Experience is the number 1 teacher of skills and knowledge.
Being able to mow through content with overly ranked champs stop that process and causes more harm than good in the long run.
I feel sad for new players who are going through A4 if they get a 6* CG or Ghost. Cause inevitably, the bulk of those who do will be able to trivialize content meant to help them grow as a player.
With the length of time it takes to amass a T5CC, skill is rarely the issue. In fact, I seem to remember that being the argument with the requirements, that RNG is not skill-based. In terms of Kabam's requirements, you need to be skilled enough to complete Act 6. The second objective is a matter of amassing enough Frags to Rank a Champ.
Length of time to amass a T5CC? That’s really short for Cav players.
They have 25% for each V1-7 exploration, 25% for each exploration of 6.1-6.4, then 7.1 and 7.2. That’s 13 x 25% no? How long does it take to explore the content for some of those? There’s also completion offers offering more T5CC.
And this is excluding monthly Cav EQ 10% and side quest 10%. Not to mention weekly AQ Map 7 if they’re really that thirsty for T5CC.
We’ll just wait for them to hit another wall when the increased rank steamrolling doesn’t compensate for the skills (that they haven’t built up) they lack.
Not everyone does have skills as many on hear seem to be saying. However, i am sure in many cases it is not from a lack of effort. Should they quit the game or be encouraged by offering them some assistance. It has been awhile time since TB was introduced. I really don’t see a big issue.
Skills can be trained. Experience is the number 1 teacher of skills and knowledge.
Being able to mow through content with overly ranked champs stop that process and causes more harm than good in the long run.
I feel sad for new players who are going through A4 if they get a 6* CG or Ghost. Cause inevitably, the bulk of those who do will be able to trivialize content meant to help them grow as a player.
With the length of time it takes to amass a T5CC, skill is rarely the issue. In fact, I seem to remember that being the argument with the requirements, that RNG is not skill-based. In terms of Kabam's requirements, you need to be skilled enough to complete Act 6. The second objective is a matter of amassing enough Frags to Rank a Champ.
Length of time to amass a T5CC? That’s really short for Cav players.
They have selectors for V1-7 exploration, selectors for each exploration of 6.1-6.4, then 7.1 and 7.2. That’s 13 x 25% selectors no? How long does it take to explore the content for 4 of those?
And this is excluding monthly Cav EQ 10% and side quest 10%. Not to mention weekly AQ Map 7 if they’re really that thirsty for T5CC.
Then if people can do all that, what's the argument about skill for? Lol. There are some sources yes. Before SoP, you were waiting on 2% or 10% RNG respectively. Then the right Class. Not really pertinent to me because I'll Rank most Champs people wouldn't. I think overall SoP isn't going to let a bunch of unskilled noobs, for lack of a better term, to bypass their growth.
Comments
I've completed one run of 6.4 , explored 6.1 and working on exploring act 7, and still I don't have enough to rank a champ to r3.
Call it unlucky but I have 30k of every type of t5cc, it's like the game is balancing every class type.
Given that , I'm still not sure whether sop will get me over the line but I hope it does.
Appreciate something for once, SOP is definitely that something that deserves some appreciation!
It was worth all the Early June memes
As long as it’s a “challenge” based on game knowledge, it won’t work, because of this thing called YouTube, where knowledgeable players break down and recommend counters for the puzzle, and further fueling the “I do not have xxx and yyy champ because of rng and am unable to do this piece of content” myth.
It’s like looking at the answer sheet while trying to solve a sudoku puzzle. How is that challenging?
Although I have a lot less sympathy for someone who claims the game isn't challenging because they just copied what someone on Youtube did. Challenges like this can't eliminate the complaints, because of course too many people will look at the back of the book then claim they did it all on their own. But they can at least offer challenges to those who genuinely want to be challenged and don't cheat themselves out of the experience.
Then realize there’s cheese methods shown on YouTube after you’ve done it. It’s always the 🤦🏻♂️ moments that get me. 😂
Before SoP, TB wasn’t aimed at someone with 25% of one T5cc. That is the issue that is being brought up in the thread. That isn’t a veteran Cav player. That is literally someone who has done 1 run through of act 6 and you need 1 good 6* and that’s it. You can select an entire t5cc for them.
The two questions were: one: how to decide what the content achievement would be, and two: how to demonstrate that the player had moved on to 6* rank ups.
We all know the first one: they settled on first time completion of Act 6. Lots of reasons why: primarily that story arc content is the primary non-optional progressional permanent content, and it is defined to be completable with reasonable rosters but not necessarily explorable for average players in a reasonable amount of time. The second one was trickier. We came very, very, very close to having the requirement be three R3s. The logic being anyone that has been ranking up 6* champs to R3 for a while should have a few. "Three" was a reasonable proxy for "a few." But the question of random effects came up. Suppose a player was doing everything that all other Thronebreaker-caliber players were doing, opening the same amount of 6* crystals and gathering the same amount of T5C, but just didn't pull the trigger on the rank ups. Maybe they were waiting for better choices. Maybe they were in an alliance that placed rank up requirements on them. Maybe they were deep in the prestige race and didn't want to rank up low prestige champs. They could easily have three or five or eight R3s, but just hadn't done so yet.
As a concession to that situation, the devs lowered the requirement to one. The presumption was that any player who was genuinely Thronebreaker caliber - defined to be players who were at the very top of the game and doing everything they could to focus on 6* rank ups - would have at least *one* R3, or would be willing to trivially rank up a suboptimal champ for the title. Because what is one rank up for such a player? Even if they were sitting on all their T5C, they could spare one to get the title.
The intended target was not players who could make one R3 rank up. The intended target was players who could *easily* do an R3 rank up, without thinking twice, either because the costs were trivial, or because they did it already. That seemed close to the same intent that "three" was. And that is the intended target for Thronebreaker. The requirement cannot be "everyone who can easily do a rank 3" because there's no way to define "easily." They didn't want to make it three because many players who *could* do three didn't do it yet and forcing them to make several rank ups for TB seemed excessive. So the requirement was set to one as a compromise.
I completely agree with you on the original intent. But once kabam decided to make it completion of act 6 and a single r3 as a requirement, it kind of is a moot point as to who was the original target for the said title. Whatever requirement has been set is what needs to be fulfilled. And as @walkerdog pointed out, the business side of kabam decided to make t5cc available more easily probably to have the title more accessible to more people.
At the end of the day, though, you're correct that since Kabam set the requirements the way they did, them's the rules and we can't fault any player who becomes Thronebreaker by achieving the title through any available means. We can, however, be on our guard for signs of title entitlement. People today say that because they are now Cavalier, all Cavalier content should be targeted at them personally, and if they can't do it the content is too hard, and if the rewards are unpalatable to them then the rewards are inappropriate. Achieving a progress title puts you into that tier of progress, it does not entitle anyone to plant a flag and declare that the title must now serve their interests.
I think that's what people are most afraid of, and I think it is a valid complaint. I'm all in favor of having reasonable progress paths for average players with average time and resources, and Thronebreaker is no exception. There must be a path to TB for average skill, average time, average resource players. Eventually for some definition of eventually. But I also think that players should not expect everything to be designed with them personally in mind. TB content has to address a wide range of TB players. Some of it will be too easy for the top TBs, and they need to calm down about it. And some of it will be too hard for people who advanced into TB early, and they need to suck it up because they need to understand that if they advance faster than their thumbs and wallets can support, they will run into walls. That's life.
I think more players will get to TB before they are really ready, and that will cause some temporary problems for the game. But I think the overall game economy and progress ladder will adjust to this, and I don't think those players will be able to apply significant pressure to water down the game any more than Kabam is already willing to do. For Cavalier players happy that TB is giving them that last push into TB, I'm happy for them, really. I don't feel like they are devaluing my efforts in the game in the slightest. But once they get here, if they think they are going to take over the place and recreate it in their image, I'm going to part ways with them and ask the devs to obliterate them in their sleep with nightmarish content. Because if they wanted into the TB clubhouse, they have to eat what we eat.
I don't disagree that its been an easy event so far and nothing like what was promised but me taking unduped NF to R3 for a title won't make much difference to anyone, probably not even myself.
Nothing “easy” about this sop.
1- need the right champ
2- need patience
3- need skill.
Take the dark hawk one with “easy” magneto solo. Nothing “easy” about it. You still needed to survive to get 2-3 L3’s. You can use revives, you can also use them on any challenge.
I lost interest in this..sorry 😂. As you were
Being able to mow through content with overly ranked champs stop that process and causes more harm than good in the long run.
I feel sad for new players who are going through A4 if they get a 6* CG or Ghost. Cause inevitably, the bulk of those who do will be able to trivialize content meant to help them grow as a player.
They have 25% for each V1-7 exploration, 25% for each exploration of 6.1-6.4, then 7.1 and 7.2. That’s 13 x 25% no? How long does it take to explore the content for some of those? There’s also completion offers offering more T5CC.
And this is excluding monthly Cav EQ 10% and side quest 10%. Not to mention weekly AQ Map 7 if they’re really that thirsty for T5CC.
There are some sources yes. Before SoP, you were waiting on 2% or 10% RNG respectively. Then the right Class. Not really pertinent to me because I'll Rank most Champs people wouldn't. I think overall SoP isn't going to let a bunch of unskilled noobs, for lack of a better term, to bypass their growth.