Guillotine, A community choice champ and nerf? Are u happy with this buff?

Webslinger1967 · October 2021

Not sure if it was bugged earlier but I did WS in 117 hits vs 230 . The bleed curse was not working on my Galaxy s21ultra but does on my s9+ weird

Nix2222 · October 2021

Wicket329 said:
A note for both sides of this argument:

Everybody keeps using RoL Winter Soldier as a benchmark for new Guilly. What she can do now vs. what she could do before. I believe this is a fundamentally misguided approach.

I think the real question as to whether this is a successful buff is whether or not she can take *any* fights she couldn’t have before her overhaul. That is what I, personally, measure a successful buff by. Is there any content where she previously struggled that she now soars?

I have my feelings on the answers, but I do not have the champion at a high level to test with. If anybody else does and has an area in mind where New Guilly excels where Old Guilly did not, I’d be very interested in your feedback.

Wholeheartedly agree and I’d add the question of whether there were fights/situations she did well at before that she can’t do now. This buff has changed her dynamics to where I’d like to see her tested for practicality in more than just ROL fights. I fully trust the judgement of a few folks in this conversation to have my leanings but I’m sure we’ll have more proof as time unfolds.

AverageDesi · October 2021

Texas_11 said:

Jaded said:

Texas_11 said:
I like her
Careful, if you disagree with the majority in this area you’ll be bullied to see it their way with disagree spams 🤣🤣
Realistically , no one is going to use her that wasn’t using her before, this is for growing players who need help with their rosters.

exactly. anytime a buff is not useful for endgame this is the excuse. But guilly is different. they asked people to vote for her. they made a big show out of it and even literally had players devote their time for the buff in the form of arena. after all that, if the answer is "this buff is for new players", then why bother with the charade.

AverageDesi · October 2021

Texas_11 said:

Wicket329 said:
A note for both sides of this argument:

Everybody keeps using RoL Winter Soldier as a benchmark for new Guilly. What she can do now vs. what she could do before. I believe this is a fundamentally misguided approach.

I think the real question as to whether this is a successful buff is whether or not she can take *any* fights she couldn’t have before her overhaul. That is what I, personally, measure a successful buff by. Is there any content where she previously struggled that she now soars?

I have my feelings on the answers, but I do not have the champion at a high level to test with. If anybody else does and has an area in mind where New Guilly excels where Old Guilly did not, I’d be very interested in your feedback.
Wolvie ROL in one shot.
X-23 one shot
OML one shot

because they were so hard . no one is taking guilly into the abyss or lol for those fights.

Wicket329 · October 2021

Nix2222 said:

Wicket329 said:
A note for both sides of this argument:

Everybody keeps using RoL Winter Soldier as a benchmark for new Guilly. What she can do now vs. what she could do before. I believe this is a fundamentally misguided approach.

I think the real question as to whether this is a successful buff is whether or not she can take *any* fights she couldn’t have before her overhaul. That is what I, personally, measure a successful buff by. Is there any content where she previously struggled that she now soars?

I have my feelings on the answers, but I do not have the champion at a high level to test with. If anybody else does and has an area in mind where New Guilly excels where Old Guilly did not, I’d be very interested in your feedback.
Wholeheartedly agree and I’d add the question of whether there were fights/situations she did well at before that she can’t do now. This buff has changed her dynamics to where I’d like to see her tested for practicality in more than just ROL fights. I fully trust the judgement of a few folks in this conversation to have my leanings but I’m sure we’ll have more proof as time unfolds.

I couldn’t think of any examples of this when I originally posed my question, but now I might have one: Gimme.

Now, if new Guilly works as stated, she could create an infinite feedback loop that one-shots the Gimme node. She heals for 2% of all damage dealt to the opponent, Gimme deals damage to the opponent based on your healing. I don’t have the means to test this, but I get the feeling that this doesn’t happen.

Old Guilly, however, could seriously nuke an opponent down on Gimme. She lands a crit with 0-7 souls, steals 55% health. The damage done by Gimme then increases her soul count, making her more likely to crit and if she now has 8-12 souls she heals for 110%, thereby increasing the damage done. Because she could heal a dramatically larger chunk at a time, she was (arguably) better equipped for that particular node.

If somebody could test new Guilly on that node, I’d love to hear how she does.

Rockypantherx · October 2021

Wicket329 said:

Nix2222 said:

Wicket329 said:
A note for both sides of this argument:

Everybody keeps using RoL Winter Soldier as a benchmark for new Guilly. What she can do now vs. what she could do before. I believe this is a fundamentally misguided approach.

I think the real question as to whether this is a successful buff is whether or not she can take *any* fights she couldn’t have before her overhaul. That is what I, personally, measure a successful buff by. Is there any content where she previously struggled that she now soars?

I have my feelings on the answers, but I do not have the champion at a high level to test with. If anybody else does and has an area in mind where New Guilly excels where Old Guilly did not, I’d be very interested in your feedback.
Wholeheartedly agree and I’d add the question of whether there were fights/situations she did well at before that she can’t do now. This buff has changed her dynamics to where I’d like to see her tested for practicality in more than just ROL fights. I fully trust the judgement of a few folks in this conversation to have my leanings but I’m sure we’ll have more proof as time unfolds.
I couldn’t think of any examples of this when I originally posed my question, but now I might have one: Gimme.

Now, if new Guilly works as stated, she could create an infinite feedback loop that one-shots the Gimme node. She heals for 2% of all damage dealt to the opponent, Gimme deals damage to the opponent based on your healing. I don’t have the means to test this, but I get the feeling that this doesn’t happen.

Old Guilly, however, could seriously nuke an opponent down on Gimme. She lands a crit with 0-7 souls, steals 55% health. The damage done by Gimme then increases her soul count, making her more likely to crit and if she now has 8-12 souls she heals for 110%, thereby increasing the damage done. Because she could heal a dramatically larger chunk at a time, she was (arguably) better equipped for that particular node.

If somebody could test new Guilly on that node, I’d love to hear how she does.

Just tested this for you, it doesn’t one shot it, not does the damage or healing ramp up. It’s a constant stream of damage and healing but it doesn’t seem to increase. Maybe it’s because I’m running suicides so I had the willpower healing at the start of the fight, that potentially messed with the interaction

Stellar · October 2021

The regen is not so bad
2% of any damage, that meean blows, bleed, inverted regen etc…
Could be quite nice

FadedDragon999 · October 2021

Stellar said:
The regen is not so bad
2% of any damage, that meean blows, bleed, inverted regen etc…
Could be quite nice

Not exactly. On paper, it looks cool. However, 2% is actually extremely low. Lets say you deal a 4k crit. 2% of that is 80. as a 5* r5, her bleeds deal 347 damage each second. 2% of that is 6. If you want to heal like 200 health in an entire hit? You gotta deal 10k and above, when her attack are doing less than that the entire fight. I mean, Morning star has life steal. However, she heals a lot more. So no. Though 2% is consistent, it's not good. You are locked behind healing 2% of the opponents max health (Say they had 355,670 Health. You could only heal a total of 7113 health. Subtract that with how much damage you take in fight and you will see that, her healing is now the worst in game).

Wicket329 · October 2021

Rockypantherx said:

Wicket329 said:

Nix2222 said:

Wicket329 said:
A note for both sides of this argument:

Everybody keeps using RoL Winter Soldier as a benchmark for new Guilly. What she can do now vs. what she could do before. I believe this is a fundamentally misguided approach.

I think the real question as to whether this is a successful buff is whether or not she can take *any* fights she couldn’t have before her overhaul. That is what I, personally, measure a successful buff by. Is there any content where she previously struggled that she now soars?

I have my feelings on the answers, but I do not have the champion at a high level to test with. If anybody else does and has an area in mind where New Guilly excels where Old Guilly did not, I’d be very interested in your feedback.
Wholeheartedly agree and I’d add the question of whether there were fights/situations she did well at before that she can’t do now. This buff has changed her dynamics to where I’d like to see her tested for practicality in more than just ROL fights. I fully trust the judgement of a few folks in this conversation to have my leanings but I’m sure we’ll have more proof as time unfolds.
I couldn’t think of any examples of this when I originally posed my question, but now I might have one: Gimme.

Now, if new Guilly works as stated, she could create an infinite feedback loop that one-shots the Gimme node. She heals for 2% of all damage dealt to the opponent, Gimme deals damage to the opponent based on your healing. I don’t have the means to test this, but I get the feeling that this doesn’t happen.

Old Guilly, however, could seriously nuke an opponent down on Gimme. She lands a crit with 0-7 souls, steals 55% health. The damage done by Gimme then increases her soul count, making her more likely to crit and if she now has 8-12 souls she heals for 110%, thereby increasing the damage done. Because she could heal a dramatically larger chunk at a time, she was (arguably) better equipped for that particular node.

If somebody could test new Guilly on that node, I’d love to hear how she does.
Just tested this for you, it doesn’t one shot it, not does the damage or healing ramp up. It’s a constant stream of damage and healing but it doesn’t seem to increase. Maybe it’s because I’m running suicides so I had the willpower healing at the start of the fight, that potentially messed with the interaction

It could also be that because you only heal for 2% of damage done, the damage rapidly dwindles down to the quantum realm. You only heal like 40 per hit from what I’ve seen. So then you do whatever multiplier of that Gimme gives you as damage, then heal 2% of that, then multiplied damage, 2% heal, ad infinitum. Technically unending, but incredibly small numbers after a few reflections.

pseudosane · October 2021

Stellar said:
The regen is not so bad
2% of any damage, that meean blows, bleed, inverted regen etc…
Could be quite nice

2% is the chance to get a 6* from a featured cav. 2% isnt nice.

Stagedear85 · October 2021

Texas_11 said:

Jaded said:

Texas_11 said:
I like her
Careful, if you disagree with the majority in this area you’ll be bullied to see it their way with disagree spams 🤣🤣
I’m not sure if people disagree with me or not, but if it helps at least one person get through content it was a successful buff.

No one has used gully since ROL Wolverine and she was a crappy synergy piece to have around.

Her heal is better because it’s more consistent, so you net more overall. I’m not sure why people go straight to the negatives. People didn’t even know you could stack her stuff, then when they realize , they say her play style is too heavy dependent. Every mutant has this play style.

She can do what she does better than before. Not to mention her soul mechanic is way better.

Lately it just seems that people want to grab their pitchforks because it’s the thing to do on Mcoc forums. Realistically , no one is going to use her that wasn’t using her before, this is for growing players who need help with their rosters.

As much as i agree with most of what you said i would push back where u said its for growing players i maybe wrong but i think most of the players that voted for her in the arena from what I'm seeing is players that has a huge roster already and most had her as a 6 star and also 5 star and voted in confidence that she would be a lot better somewhat of an magneto buff maybe not as OP but close and with her Overhaul those players that was hoping to dust her off and find use for her currently are disappointed because if we are being honest i voted for her in area and it was an dreadful arena with high expectation so did many in my alliance and we are all left disappointed now if you are a new player she's a little better in some area but for most of the players that's been playing for years that wanted(voted) her buff over ant-man its disappointing to say the lease the reason we wanted her buff was so we could use her now and not just for ROL Wolverine . they did a great Job with Diablo no one used him prior to his buff now everyone has use for him same with Magneto, Angela , Falcon and Luke Cage , any many others that wasn't an community voted champ.

Wicket329 · October 2021

I am hoping now that the full update and EQ are live and the game is up and running again we might see some kind of response to this conversation from Kabam.

HomemMachado · October 2021

The situation of Guillotine's "buff" is worst than Hood's. Even Hood loosing some of his utility and characteristics, he gained damage. The only thing that was buffed in Guillotine was the regeneration reversal - but we cannot forget that It was nerfed before! She needs a real buff, not only this few differences that didn't change her positively at all. Kabam has to do it again and it's not so hard make her a great Champion.

Zeezoos · October 2021

I feel so deflated about the Guilly changes and the lack of any feedback or response from Kabam. What I really want to understand is what they were aiming for, what was the brief, and how do they think they did against that?

She is no more useful to me now than she was before. She’s better for the early parts of the game, very limited thereafter. For buffs generally I’m ok with that, they are targeted in different ways. But as a buff the whole community voted on, where people ran campaigns for their favourite to win, that I felt invested in, I expected a hell of a lot better.

I’m still looking forward to something from Kabam on this. It’s important because champion buffs should be something to get excited about not dread.

HomemMachado · October 2021

Stellar said:
The regen is not so bad
2% of any damage, that meean blows, bleed, inverted regen etc…
Could be quite nice

In truth 2% is a really low regen. As an example, we can take the rol Winter Soldier fight. Let's consider a total health of 600k. 2% of it is only 12k. The whole amount of regen can't pass the proportional 2% of the maximum health of the adversary. So, It was a giant nerf.
I used my rank 4 5* Guillotine in AQ, for more than a year, doing almost Every fight of my lines with only her. She used to arrive with full health in AQ Boss. It was pretty usual to complete 60% to 80% of Guillotine's health with an E3 in a fight against a 80k total health adversary. Using this parameter, her regen now sounds like a joke.
I always liked her as Champion, but never ranked her to r5, despites I use mistical disportion. The only motive for that, was the understanding that mistical class is an utility one, with nullifying habilities as there most singular feature. But I can understand a powerfull no nullifier mistic as Tigra.
First I believed that the buff could make Guillotine a powerfull atacker with nullifying habilities. That's why I spent my time to do the Full arena, for the right to vote in a Champion I love and have many potential - and believe me, I hate playing arena. When they published her New features, I missed a Lot nullifying habilities and Felt not confort with the lower regen and bleeding nerf. But I try to be confident that Kabam did a good job and I could finally have my First 6* R3 mistic: Guillotine, the Champion that use for years. Massacre was my First 6* rank 3 right after his buff and I really love playing with him.
Among all the disappointment in this game, Guillotine's buff/nerf was the worst. It's so hard to understand, that I am writing in forum for the first time in 6 years of gaming.

HomemMachado · October 2021

HomemMachado said:

Stellar said:
The regen is not so bad
2% of any damage, that meean blows, bleed, inverted regen etc…
Could be quite nice
In truth 2% is a really low regen. As an example, we can take the rol Winter Soldier fight. Let's consider a total health of 600k. 2% of it is only 12k. The whole amount of regen can't pass the proportional 2% of the maximum health of the adversary. So, It was a giant nerf.
I used my rank 4 5* Guillotine in AQ, for more than a year, doing almost Every fight of my lines with only her. She used to arrive with full health in AQ Boss. It was pretty usual to complete 60% to 80% of Guillotine's health with an E3 in a fight against a 80k total health adversary. Using this parameter, her regen now sounds like a joke.
I always liked her as Champion, but never ranked her to r5, despites I use mistical disportion. The only motive for that, was the understanding that mistical class is an utility one, with nullifying habilities as there most singular feature. But I can understand a powerfull no nullifier mistic as Tigra.
First I believed that the buff could make Guillotine a powerfull atacker with nullifying habilities. That's why I spent my time to do the Full arena, for the right to vote in a Champion I love and have many potential - and believe me, I hate playing arena. When they published her New features, I missed a Lot nullifying habilities and Felt not confort with the lower regen and bleeding nerf. But I try to be confident that Kabam did a good job and I could finally have my First 6* R3 mistic: Guillotine, the Champion that use for years. Massacre was my First 6* rank 3 right after his buff and I really love playing with him.
Among all the disappointment in this game, Guillotine's buff/nerf was the worst. It's so hard to understand, that I am writing in forum for the first time in 6 years of gaming.

And Just to be clear: I play MCOC for more than 6 years and my son is growing opening my cristals. It's the only game I play for myself.
But in truth, it was not a hard job to make Guillotine a great and usable Champion for herself, with no need of sinergy for her basic pool. And If someone of Kabam really reads this forum messages and wants to know how It could be done, just call. I do It for the pleasure of playing this game, you would even need to pay me. And I am sure that thounsands of anothers MCOC players around the world are able to make her a 6* rank 3 potential Champion too.

Omedenn · October 2021

Have a 6* r3 (Don’t ask me)..

Did some EQ cav - to test her out a bit. Went from 27% to 29% health in one fight
Still died, because her unblockable special attacks are not unblockable so directly received a few counter punches

It’s such a poorly designed champion, hard to look at. You start to feel sorry for her when you watch her fight.

CarnageQueen · October 2021

Kabam, please tell us what are you gonna do for this? Thank you!

rockykoston · October 2021

CarnageQueen said:
Kabam, please tell us what are you gonna do for this? Thank you!

If they do anything now, a lot of ppl might want compensation.

Ppl like me who didn't pick her from 6* nexus because her buff is so bad.

Grub · October 2021

She’s so utterly bad. Annoyed I took my 6* to rank 2. What a complete waste of resources.

Magrailothos · October 2021

Terra said:

LeNoirFaineant said:
I've never seen so many threads about issues with zero Mod comments.
They will likely remain silent until they worked out a fix, or they'll shove it under the carpet, or will ignore it until someone famous within the community does something radical.
It's how the circle has always been

I'd been watching out for something, too. Actually, there is at least the briefest of acknowledgments in Guilly's spotlight:

Stagedear85 · October 2021

Grub said:
She’s so utterly bad. Annoyed I took my 6* to rank 2. What a complete waste of resources.

which is why i always say don't do rank up until you test the champion i learn from Dare Devil, I rank 5 my 5 star thinking he was going to be good and since then I've only used him in arena so from now on i say wait until after the Buff to do rank up

pseudosane · October 2021

Magrailothos said:

Terra said:

LeNoirFaineant said:
I've never seen so many threads about issues with zero Mod comments.
They will likely remain silent until they worked out a fix, or they'll shove it under the carpet, or will ignore it until someone famous within the community does something radical.
It's how the circle has always been
I'd been watching out for something, too. Actually, there is at least the briefest of acknowledgments in Guilly's spotlight:

thanks for that link. I wish i could be more optimistic though, that is a generic reply to an umpteen number of bug threads as well.

CarnageQueen · October 2021

It seems we finally can get some feedback from Kabam. It’s kind of late but thanks anyway.

Guillotine, A community choice champ and nerf? Are u happy with this buff?

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