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Introducing the next Campaign Progression Level: Paragon!

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    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,276 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Evolves2 said:

    Essentially, I think we as a community should have this discussion.

    We *are* having this discussion. And my position in this discussion is: we've had this discussion before. People keep saying it is different this time, and it is, because it is always different. But it isn't different in an important way.

    People keep focusing on the "well, it was *possible* to get Cavalier on day one, it was *possible* to get Thronebreaker on day one."

    For who?

    It *wasn't* possible for most people to get Cavalier on day one. It wasn't possible for most people to get Thronebreaker on day one. That's why people *complained* about Cavalier and Thronebreaker. It wasn't possible *for them*.

    We aren't really discussing what's fair. We aren't even discussing what's possible. We're discussing who should be on this side of the line, and who should be on that side. And almost everyone thinks they should be on the right side, or close enough that it doesn't matter.

    People don't want it to be possible. They want it to be possible for them and right now. it is fine if it is impossible for anyone else, because of course if it is possible for them, it isn't really impossible for everyone else. Those people just failed to do what they did.

    The most important way in which this is just like Thronebreaker and just like Cavalier is: in six months, maybe a year, no one will care. The majority will look back, if they were even here, and wonder what the fuss was about. It is the temporary nature of these "issues" that contextualize what's really happening. Some people are upset they can't get there immediately. And that's something the game is never going to promise anyone. It didn't have to be three R4s, it could have been five R4s. It could have been five R5s. It could have been a title literally impossible for anyone to reach today, whether they were F2P or whale, whether they had completed everything or not. It wouldn't make any difference, because whatever the requirements were, *eventually* we'd be back here, with some people there, some people not quite there, and some people far away and complaining they deserve to be there.

    For some people, Thronebreaker was possible on day one and Paragon won't be. For some people Cavalier was possible on day one and Thronebreaker wasn't. These are very tiny slivers of the player population, and where ever you draw the lines there will always be such people: you can only choose who there are, not if they are. And time eventually solves all their problems. You cannot solve this problem, because this is an inevitable situation. The best we can do is choose different people to suffer the problem under the guise of discussing fairness.
    I think the main point here is that most are saying the line should be drawn juuuuuust in the right place so they can be Paragon on day 1 or so they can do another bit of content and get it.
    The line Kabam drew-

    -----------------------------------

    The line the community wants Kabam to draw-


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    TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 2,971 ★★★★★
    The progression curve in this game was already broken with increasing catalyst costs for 6-stars and reduced improvement in stats (even raw totals…not just percentages). The 6r5 situation will be even worse with overlapping materials.

    With Spring Cleaning ahead, I’m stuck in No Man’s Land. I’m nowhere near Paragon so r4 materials don’t provide enough immediate return to be worth it. I have 20 r3 champs and catalysts and a gem collecting dust. R3 materials don’t really improve my roster much. Why bother…?
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    J0eySn0wJ0eySn0w Posts: 868 ★★★★
    edited April 2022

    Ive largely been ignoring the forums and im not going to read this whole thread, but ive seen some of the sentiments on Line chats.

    I am perfectly fine with the title. I wont have it day one unless I semi-whale on this Friday. Ive completed every piece of content with t6b and t3a and also bought some Cyber Weekend/July 4th deals that had frags. The only thing i missed was the 10k offer which would have gotten me there.

    I said from day one that TB was too easy, and I kinda like that Paragon or whatever its called it harder.(Sure its more p2w, but thats their choice)

    I think they made a good choice as act 7 is too easy to hide a title behind, and other requirements such as base hero rating or prestige would have similar problems.

    The only thing mildly angering is the fact that content will already be locked behind the title, but to be completely fair it has always been like that. I think kabam was kinda in a lose-lose situation here with regardless of the requirements there would be people already wayyy passed the requirements or too many people annoyed at the restrictions.

    Im sure ill end up spending friday to get there because i havent really spent much this year so i wouldnt mind spending a bit for it.

    Anyways, thats my thoughts and i respect all the other reasonable claims ive seen as everyone comes from a slightly different position.

    I agree Act 7 completion would have been easy but 3 r4 6stars is very very steep and locked behind whaling and p2w. If they wanted to make it skill-based focus, trust me they could have. There are still difficult content in-game, where do Carina challenges come from? It's no outside content. It's just an avenue to make or milk more money. Someone can 100% every permanent content in this game and not make this title. However, someone can without exploring all content in the game. Yet, this titled is for the toughest and conquerors in the game and not the hardest whalers (and conquerors). Situations like these are not uncommon in this game, I'm just gonna chill out and not stress, eventually I will get there.
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    ddomddom Posts: 572 ★★
    I'm a mostly free to play player (only occasionally buy july 4/cyber weekend smaller deals) and did the sigil just for Scarlet Witch.

    With that said, even with full 7.4 exploration, I'll only have max 2 R4s by May when this title drops.

    However, I think this is 100% fine since it gives me more reason to be excited for the future events such as Act 8.1 as well as the next "Abyss" and the Eternity of Pain event.

    In addition, the fact that there's a new progression level doesn't mean that Thronebreaker tier suddenly becomes bad. Your champs are still as strong, you still get the same price for cav crystals, etc.

    I think the only people who will be affected by not being Paragon on day 1 are people in Plat 1/Master tier alliances but those players are almost certainly all going to comfortably have 3 R4s
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    TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    I've done 100% of all content except 2 LOL challenges in carina vol 1. If I finished those I would have a 3 r4 but spring cleaning will be me a 3rd r4 anyways. That being said I don't like this progression at all. I think two is more reasonable and fair.

    If they really wanted us all to work towards it they can make it 5 r4 champions but that could upset the 1% and we can't have that. Kabam should really reconsider this one.
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    OwGssOwGss Posts: 82
    Make it 2 r4 6*s and everyone is happy… sure you could give more r4 resources, that’s natural… sure you could have announced this prior to 7.4 so many more could have grabbed 10k unit offer… sure you could have included r4 in rifts instead of junk like 4/5* sigs and t4c but all in all…could adjust map 5 and below and gold below AW to have better rank up resources… or simply make it 2 r4 6*s and many will be happier.
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    GoDlyZorGoDlyZor Posts: 150

    Sorry, if you purchased the Act 7 offer you are not FTP. Nobody would have just been expecting that offer and then also just happen to have those kinda units laying around. And you cant score high in the gifting eveny FTP. Also to be in a Higher-end alliance you would probably not be allowed to be a FTP player. 3 is a joke. Just finishing Act 7 100% would be an accomplishment in itself worthy of Paragon and you would have a 6* rank4. That should be good enough.

    ? a lot of people that don't spend money save up for july 4th and cyber weekend. Some other things like gifting event as well. but those are the two biggest events for units in the game. Personally, I had been saving up in anticipation of building up my stash for july 4th since gifting ended. It was to be expected that there would be a good deal from story content. It was the end of the act and end of act 6 was also a big deal for units just wasn't worth it as much but a lot has changed since. I didn't expect 10k but had expected 3k or 6k. I had around 8k saved. You can get over 7k units a month in the game f2p. I explored 7.4.1-7.4.5 and did not touch 7.4.6 until I had the units and was ready to buy the 10k deal.

    I'm not in a masters alliance only P1/P2, I didn't score high in gifting.
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    RicoShayRicoShay Posts: 228 ★★

    RicoShay said:

    It’s a pay-title. It’s nearly impossible that f2p players have 3 r4s. I always had the newest progression title but that is simply too much. For TB I did back then my first abyss completion. What can I do now to obtain 3 r4s? It’s huge man. It’s not a good feeling right now.

    For context: I have 1 r4 and have everything in game on 100% except some carina challenges. It shifts more in p2w direction

    Why is it a pay title if you can’t get it the second it launches?

    Is it bad to work for things?
    You have to admit currently the title will only be available to the small minority of FTP players at the top. It'll become more FTP as time passes but for now it is a very pay to earn title. No point denying it.
    I’m of the opinion that spending on a FTP game, or being at the very very top should award some perks. Or the game stops being spent on, and people stop trying at the top because there are no benefits.

    This is one of the benefits. I’m not one who benefits from it in this situation (not a hardcore spender, not in a top alliance), I still have to get 2 T3As, but I understand that not everything will be handed to me just for turning up, and sometimes it’s actually ok to work for things in the game.

    It is really not a big deal that F2P players cannot get this title day 1 unless they are in a top alliance. F2P players could be in a top alliance and get it, but it’s absolutely ok for challenges to be set that people work for.
    Plat 3 puts you in the top 300 alliances so you're contradicting yourself all around with the whole you're not in a high ranking alliance. The issue is your bias is inclined towards it's ok for FTP to miss out momentarily because you're close to the title because you're willing to spend. You will benefit soon whether it be from July 4 or spring cleaning deals. If you read my prior comments you'd see I think having a title that is hard to achieve is a good thing but it is very catered to spending players, unlike thronebreaker which was somewhat FTP friendly. Unfortunately, kabam needs to make money at the end of the day and as such the title is what it is. Never ever did I come in demanding free rewards so everyone can get the title the day of release and I've been actively smashing through the carina's challenges to get my next r4 champ
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    ddomddom Posts: 572 ★★
    I agree that Kabam @Kabam Miike @Kabam Porthos should have announced the release date of the eternity of pain event prior to the Paragon announcement so that free to play endgame players have a clear and definite way of getting to the Paragon requirements but other than that, I feel the requirements are fair and correct.

    There should be something to chase further down instead of having a new tier be just an automatic promotion
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    KDoggg2017KDoggg2017 Posts: 1,213 ★★★★
    @LilMaddogHT Thanks for correcting my saying you were "totally" ftp. I have nothing but respect for all the hard work you have done grinding out your progress.
    Whether a player spends or not makes no difference to me. My intention was only to point out that 3 R3s was possible without whaling on R4 mat offers. (My humble apologies if I overstepped, good sir).
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    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,276 ★★★★★

    Yep, I'm pretty much done chasing the carrot at this point. This doesn't motivate me to even push for Thronebreaker. Just accepting the fact that I will never catch-up due to how far behind I've gotten. This game is just not worth it anymore.

    Why would you have ever expected to catch up to people who've spent or constantly grinded their way to 3 r4s? Unless you're ready to drop thousands of dollars to do everything in the game ASAP and then spend thousands on Cavs to get champs, you shouldn't ever expect to catch up to the top.
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    SgtspankypantsSgtspankypants Posts: 14
    The gap in difficulty between these 2 requirements is enormous. Why even have complete act 7? I completed act 7...im nowhere close to even 1 r4
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    BigManOnCampusBigManOnCampus Posts: 376 ★★★

    Sorry, if you purchased the Act 7 offer you are not FTP. Nobody would have just been expecting that offer and then also just happen to have those kinda units laying around. And you cant score high in the gifting eveny FTP. Also to be in a Higher-end alliance you would probably not be allowed to be a FTP player. 3 is a joke. Just finishing Act 7 100% would be an accomplishment in itself worthy of Paragon and you would have a 6* rank4. That should be good enough.

    Not true , they always have a offer at the end.. and if you grind arena 10k isn't that hard to get if you want it.
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    Denzel116Denzel116 Posts: 537 ★★★
    …..I’m just over here trying to beat Thing in Abyss. Lol. But honestly I’ve always been one of those players that was just ONE LEVEL below everyone else.

    So hey, as long as Kabam doesn’t start lumping cavalier and thronebreaker rewards together…then hey, have at it you paragons!
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    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,276 ★★★★★

    The gap in difficulty between these 2 requirements is enormous. Why even have complete act 7? I completed act 7...im nowhere close to even 1 r4

    Because this title isn't aimed at you.
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    MEGATRON7214MEGATRON7214 Posts: 24
    I’m generally upset that Kabam decided to make the next title hard to achieve for the average player. I would be okay if they you only needed one 6 star rank 4 champion. I guess I’m staying on thronebreaker for another 3 years.
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    BigManOnCampusBigManOnCampus Posts: 376 ★★★
    thepiggy said:

    Everyone critical of the requirements should be willing to post their roster, AW/AQ rankings, and all endgame content progress (Story, Abyss, Carinas).

    Most won't:

    Haven't played long enough
    Skip content
    Don't 100% content
    Think Abyss and Carina's are 'cash grabby'
    Don't do Alliance Wars
    Don't do Map 8

    100% agree ,..
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