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Introducing the next Campaign Progression Level: Paragon!

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    LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 8,643 ★★★★★
    Kiwer said:

    This is totally unfair #kabam I love this game but this is getting too crazy, I do have all the requirements except to play in higher tier competitive alliance. I just don’t have time to play in top alliance now, work, school, kids, wife etc I currently play in a gold2 chill alliance, I do have 3 6*s r4 I did SPENT A LOT MONEY in this game so far, sometimes I do have problems with the wife because I spent on this game but what about us? People who still spending on this game, who has everything 100% we do deserve the title too! People have a life out of this game! #disappointing 😔

    Playing in a high alliance is not a requirement. If you have 3 r4s and you beat act 7 you're good.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,316 ★★★★★
    JChanceH9 said:

    Spending in itself offers multiplicative benefits. The issue it seems is people disagreeing where the paywall multipliers should end.

    Rewards from alliance war, alliance quest, cash offers, completing new content faster, access to new champions sooner… all benefits.

    Should title progression be behind the paywall? I’m not saying yes or no. If there is a line where it would be? 🤷

    Personally I hope the line falls wherever is best for the longevity and health of the game.

    It's not behind a paywall. It just means the people who will get it FIRST will most likely have spent. This isn't behind any paywall at all, actually. Some people will just have to wait to earn the Resources.
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,260 ★★★★★
    Jaded said:

    Jaded said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Jaded said:

    When we said that this is for those that have done everything, we meant it!

    "When we said that this is for those that have spent on everything, we meant it!"

    corrected it lol

    I've done everything and i"m nowhere near 3 Rank 4s. not even close to 2 LOL but then i don't spend like the folks who would have 3+ rank 4 six stars. oh well.

    Completed all of the Story Content in-game
    Completed all of last year’s Summer of Pain objectives
    Completed Carina’s Challenges (Volumes 1 and 2),
    Plays in a higher tier competitive Alliance

    Which of these do you fulfil?
    So if people aren’t in t1 wars we don’t deserve the new title? Lol
    On day one? Honestly, probably not. The players who have done everything and are playing in the highest tiers of competitive play (or alternatively are paying to keep the lights on for everyone else) have to have some advantage in the game, and time has always been their primary advantage. They get things before everyone else does. If you don't do T1 wars, you still deserve to get the new title. Eventually.
    That’s bs 😂. I haven’t missed a single new progression title in the game since they introduced them with uncollected. I’ve played in t2 wars and top 20 alliance quest in the past but choose to not do it now to play with friends. Isolating a new title around what tier war we play in is a bad way to present the game.
    And everyone is very proud of you. But having a target to gun for in the game is not a bad thing.

    It’s not being isolated around which tier war you’ve done, that’s just one of the aspects they’ve used as an example of how to get the title day one. If you hadn’t done SoP then that’s what’s stopped you getting the title.

    It seems that you’re only angry with the war aspect because that’s what’s stopped you getting it. You can’t just pick the ones you haven’t done and say that it’s bad.

    In the past, progression titles were 100% built around story content - that’s why having done the story content in the past let you get there on day one. Now, progression titles are not built around story content so they have to use other aspects in the game to judge who gets it day 1. They’ve chosen previous hard content, and in this case, high tier AW and AQ.

    Spending helps clearly, it would be ridiculous if it didn’t , but FTP players who aren’t in top alliances will get there. Nobody is owed the title day 1 just by completing content - just the content isn’t what titles are linked to anymore.
    What target am I aiming for? If we are looking at what is available in the game minus high tier wars where am I going to find the materials needed to r4 more 6* champions?
    You answered this question in your post.

    More content will be added in future, just as more T5CC was added in order to get Thronebreaker (again, just going to preempt the point that I know you could get a full T5cc from act 6 or abyss but these progression titles are no longer linked to story quest)
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,260 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Jaded said:

    When we said that this is for those that have done everything, we meant it!

    "When we said that this is for those that have spent on everything, we meant it!"

    corrected it lol

    I've done everything and i"m nowhere near 3 Rank 4s. not even close to 2 LOL but then i don't spend like the folks who would have 3+ rank 4 six stars. oh well.

    Completed all of the Story Content in-game
    Completed all of last year’s Summer of Pain objectives
    Completed Carina’s Challenges (Volumes 1 and 2),
    Plays in a higher tier competitive Alliance

    Which of these do you fulfil?
    So if people aren’t in t1 wars we don’t deserve the new title? Lol
    On day one? Honestly, probably not. The players who have done everything and are playing in the highest tiers of competitive play (or alternatively are paying to keep the lights on for everyone else) have to have some advantage in the game, and time has always been their primary advantage. They get things before everyone else does. If you don't do T1 wars, you still deserve to get the new title. Eventually.
    So here’s the thing. You already get a title for being in the top 20 for AW. Let’s also be honest, those alliances hardly ever allow people in unless they are going to empty their pockets for gifting events.
    @Agent_X_zzz why don’t you tell this kind person how much you spent recently in your big WhaleyMcWhaleFace top 20 alliance
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    PikoluPikolu Posts: 6,849 Guardian
    I like this, it is challenging to get to, but it is likely after EoP a lot more people who are close can get there.
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    ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 5,626 ★★★★★
    TyEdge said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Progression titles shouldn't have temporary content and a 350$ value offer as a requirement.

    I will bet you that it is possible to achieve Paragon without spending, without doing any temporary content, without accepting any special offers, and without doing any AQ or AW. None of those things are requirements.

    They might help you get the title sooner, but I will bet players who fail to do any or all of them will still be able to achieve the title, making none of them actual requirements.
    I will bet you that it is possible to cross the English Channel without a boat, plane, train, or other mode of transit. None of those things are requirements.

    They might help you get across the English Channel sooner, but I will bet that travelers who fail to use any or all of those modes of transportation will still be able to reach France, making none of them actual requirements.

    In conclusion, congratulations to the few paragon players who are apparently MCOC’s best swimmers.
    And yet over 2000 people have done this achievement. Because they put time and effort into training. They didn’t decide on their first day of swimming to cross the channel.
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    VendemiaireVendemiaire Posts: 2,178 ★★★★★
    I'm still far from getting 3 but I'm not complaining. This game is all about chase and I'm glad there's more added. Most of those who are complaining wants to be Paragon as they are biased by the effort that they made to be where they are now. But the top isn't always what you do best now, it always and must always be changed.
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,260 ★★★★★
    edited April 2022
    ItsDamien said:

    TyEdge said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Progression titles shouldn't have temporary content and a 350$ value offer as a requirement.

    I will bet you that it is possible to achieve Paragon without spending, without doing any temporary content, without accepting any special offers, and without doing any AQ or AW. None of those things are requirements.

    They might help you get the title sooner, but I will bet players who fail to do any or all of them will still be able to achieve the title, making none of them actual requirements.
    I will bet you that it is possible to cross the English Channel without a boat, plane, train, or other mode of transit. None of those things are requirements.

    They might help you get across the English Channel sooner, but I will bet that travelers who fail to use any or all of those modes of transportation will still be able to reach France, making none of them actual requirements.

    In conclusion, congratulations to the few paragon players who are apparently MCOC’s best swimmers.
    And yet over 2000 people have done this achievement. Because they put time and effort into training. They didn’t decide on their first day of swimming to cross the channel.
    It’s also a terrible metaphor/comparison for the point they’re making. If crossing the English Channel is getting to Paragon, then FTP are the swimmers. But you can get a train, boat or plane (spend) to get there faster. Seems reasonable to me.

    They’re suggesting that the English Channel should be made narrower, which when you think about it, makes about as much sense as their point.
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    Multiverse1998Multiverse1998 Posts: 15
    edited April 2022
    OI KABAM,

    What are you doing?!?!?!?!?!

    You want summoners to have a total of 3 rank 4 6* champions when becoming Thronebreaker was already difficult to get your first 6* rank 3 champion, but now this?!?!?!

    What are you guys seriously doing?!?!!??!!?!? Think about the pain us F2P players are already suffering becoming uncollected because we don't want to spend our lives and sell our families on this stupid game and now you say in order to become Paragon, you need to complete act 7 and have 3 RANK 4 6* champions...

    I've already explored act 7 and got my first rank 4 6* which I'm happy about, but where the hell am I gonna get the resources to get my next rank 4.......

    Your game has been broken since 2016, there hasn't been a single bug fixed, and you guys don't provide much resources and gold in daily content.

    STICK TO THE DAMN PRECEDENT FOR THRONEBREAKER THAT WAS COMPLETE ACT 6 AND HAVE 1 RANK 3 6* CHAMPION INSTEAD OF LOOTING SUMMONERS AND MAKING THEM EMPTY THEIR WALLETS JUST SO THAT THEY WASTE THEIR MONEY ON BUYING STUPID AND DUMB OFFERS TO HAVE 3 RANK 4 6* TO BECOME PARAGON!!!
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,260 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Evolves2 said:

    Essentially, I think we as a community should have this discussion.

    We *are* having this discussion. And my position in this discussion is: we've had this discussion before. People keep saying it is different this time, and it is, because it is always different. But it isn't different in an important way.

    People keep focusing on the "well, it was *possible* to get Cavalier on day one, it was *possible* to get Thronebreaker on day one."

    For who?

    It *wasn't* possible for most people to get Cavalier on day one. It wasn't possible for most people to get Thronebreaker on day one. That's why people *complained* about Cavalier and Thronebreaker. It wasn't possible *for them*.

    We aren't really discussing what's fair. We aren't even discussing what's possible. We're discussing who should be on this side of the line, and who should be on that side. And almost everyone thinks they should be on the right side, or close enough that it doesn't matter.

    People don't want it to be possible. They want it to be possible for them and right now. it is fine if it is impossible for anyone else, because of course if it is possible for them, it isn't really impossible for everyone else. Those people just failed to do what they did.

    The most important way in which this is just like Thronebreaker and just like Cavalier is: in six months, maybe a year, no one will care. The majority will look back, if they were even here, and wonder what the fuss was about. It is the temporary nature of these "issues" that contextualize what's really happening. Some people are upset they can't get there immediately. And that's something the game is never going to promise anyone. It didn't have to be three R4s, it could have been five R4s. It could have been five R5s. It could have been a title literally impossible for anyone to reach today, whether they were F2P or whale, whether they had completed everything or not. It wouldn't make any difference, because whatever the requirements were, *eventually* we'd be back here, with some people there, some people not quite there, and some people far away and complaining they deserve to be there.

    For some people, Thronebreaker was possible on day one and Paragon won't be. For some people Cavalier was possible on day one and Thronebreaker wasn't. These are very tiny slivers of the player population, and where ever you draw the lines there will always be such people: you can only choose who there are, not if they are. And time eventually solves all their problems. You cannot solve this problem, because this is an inevitable situation. The best we can do is choose different people to suffer the problem under the guise of discussing fairness.
    I think the main point here is that most are saying the line should be drawn juuuuuust in the right place so they can be Paragon on day 1 or so they can do another bit of content and get it.
    I think the main problem is the initial statement that "While we wanted this next progression level to be a challenge to obtain, it was also important to us that we did not put this out of reach for skilled Summoners that choose not to purchase 6-Star Rank 4 Materials, and that this remains accessible (though difficult) for all Summoners to obtain, regardless of their monetary investments." Realistically, this isn't true. It isn't really accessible initially regardless of monetary investments. Personally I wish it had been two r4s instead of three, though I'm not fussed about it.
    Notice the tense that they use in that quote. They aren’t talking about in the past, they aren’t talking about day 1 in this part. Choose, not chose. Remains, not remained. Obtain, not have obtained. The only past tense is talking about the decision they have already taken.

    They’re talking about how achievable this title will be in the coming months and yeah I guess, years. They’re saying, we want people to be able to achieve this without exclusively spending. Not that they have already been able to achieve this without exclusively spending.

    A FTP player can get around 75% of the progress needed in terms of T3A (you need 9, and can get around 7 - plus or minus depending on exactly what content you’ve done). I’d say that’s a reasonable amount of the way there, without making it too easy or too hard.

    After that section, they then go onto talk about day 1 Paragons. I think you’ve slightly conflated the two sections, though clearly they are linked.
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    To me, this just seems like another rushed titled before 4th of July deals with "benefits" that prob aren't worth it nor are fully fleshed out and won't be for another year. I'm not close to Paragon at all and this is definitely something I personally won't be trying to rush for.
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    Mother_FlerkenMother_Flerken Posts: 508 ★★★
    edited April 2022
    Robbo9 said:

    The 3 r4 criteria is not the issue here. The issue is that there’s no way to get them if you haven’t done things a certain way in the past. Someone who has completed every single piece of content ever released should not be falling short of the requirements for a “progression” title because they didn’t pick up a unit deal last month. There’s nothing for them to progress towards without a time machine.

    Looking at comparisons with previous titles, when thronebreaker was initially announced I didn’t have a r3. That was on me, I hadn’t completed all the content. So I started grinding units and revives for an abyss run to get there before release. Anyone with enough skill could have done the same. But with paragon there’s no way to start working towards it if you don’t meet the criteria already. That doesn’t sit right with me.

    Um so you grind units and pick up the next deals or finish the next content that has the materials.. it's not difficult to understand how you'll get there.

    You're upset because you can't get it as quick as you like which is purely a you problem.

    Not having the title isn't going to stop you from being able to play the game, is it? You'll eventually get it won't you. Move on and get it when you get it, don't put yourself in the same basket as those that either spent to get it before you or those that grinded to get any unit deal to get it before you.

    Wake up tomorrow, do your aq path, do aw and grind units for future deals. If you don't actually enjoy playing the game then go do something else lmao.
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    BigManOnCampusBigManOnCampus Posts: 376 ★★★
    Mattyy said:

    Oh well currently sitting on 2 r4's and some shards away with each for the 3rd so won't be able to get the title asap, not the end of the world lmao, but i hope this stings for all those that whined and whined about the difficulty of act 6 that then got act 7 neutered as well.

    If so many people didn't just want easy content so they could get a quick rush from rewards then maybe we could have had a title that was based on completing difficult content.

    Seriously question what people enjoy in this game, the actual fighting or just collecting rewards to have a w*** over 😂

    They want easy Act's and everything handed to them , hope Kabm don't renege !
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    Toj37Toj37 Posts: 68
    I guess my issue here isn’t technically what the requirements are for the next progression level. I’ve always disagreed with the idea of them giving better deals to the higher progression levels.

    If I don’t feel like I’m getting as good of a deal as other people are for the same amount of money I won’t spend money. I’m no whale by any stretch but spending on deals when they come around is a decent part of the fun for me and this knocks it out of the game for me for the foreseeable future.

    I know it sounds stupid but that added to the continued gameplay issues and general staleness of the game might equal the end of the road for me.
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    TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 2,971 ★★★★★
    Toj37 said:

    I guess my issue here isn’t technically what the requirements are for the next progression level. I’ve always disagreed with the idea of them giving better deals to the higher progression levels.

    If I don’t feel like I’m getting as good of a deal as other people are for the same amount of money I won’t spend money. I’m no whale by any stretch but spending on deals when they come around is a decent part of the fun for me and this knocks it out of the game for me for the foreseeable future.

    I know it sounds stupid but that added to the continued gameplay issues and general staleness of the game might equal the end of the road for me.

    That statement to open the second paragraph is spot on. In 2020, I was prepared for a little less than TB players, as I was still Cav. Once I saw the huge gulf between their offers and mine, I was not gonna spend a dime.

    I feel like this is inevitably going to go the same way - offers for TB players will have r4 materials stripped out and won’t actually move you towards the next title. That’s how cyber weekend 2020 went.
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    Orange75Orange75 Posts: 9
    I think, on balance, I’m okay with everything in the announcement except the fact that eternity of pain sounds like it will be paywalled content for the objectives 2 months or less after the title is released.

    I’m completely comfortable as f2p and not getting the shiny new title. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that paywalled, potentially temporary content was my objection. I was thronebreaker and completed all of summer of pain, but I felt for cav players. The main reason I understood is that thronebreaker as a title was announced close to 12 months prior to summer of pain, and went into effect a bit later.

    This turnaround—probably 2 months to sort out a title, and after I’ve missed my shot at the 7.4 offer—stings not because of the title, or because of the deals. It stings because I’m being paywalled/locked out of content for the first time playing mcoc.

    @Kabam Miike please open the EoP paragon objectives to thronebreaker players if this drops in the first 6 months after paragon becomes an active title. For me, and for a lot of free to play players, that solves a lot of problems.
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