Why battlegrounds is the worst format they created.

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Comments

  • AntsiouAntsiou Member Posts: 188 ★★

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,646 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    Not people who need the Resources to progress, and not all Players.
    They're hunting specific Champs, working on specific Rankings, and have enough to use while they hoard.
    Telling Players at earlier stages in the game to do other content and not use the Resources they earn is a poor suggestion for their progress.

    1. “The only people who hoard for months at a time are the people who have the ability to do so.”

    Yes, because if you don’t have the ability to hoard for months, you’re not one of those people who has the ability to hoard for months…which means you can’t hoard for months. Another pearl of wisdom for the loading screens.

    2. Your position tracks with the notion of BGs as a way to supercharge newer, lower accounts in lieu of doing things like SQ.

    Obviously, that leads to problems in game I’m sure anyone can tease out.

    But do go on…

    Dr. Zola
    I don't suggest anyone hoard for months, but people do what they like. If I was to offer a suggestion, I certainly wouldn't suggest Players lower to mid hoard for months.
    My position is that people earn what they earn and they have the right to spend it however they want. The Store limits what they can buy, and perhaps that's a balancing point to look at. However, if they're playing BGs and successful at that, they have earned their Rewards. It's a new game mode.
    The same could be said for anyone gaining Rewards from it. "....but it's going to ruin your progress...." is left to Kabam. Not us. Leave the decision in the hands of Players, and they'd keep anyone else from getting anything because they're just that competitive and territorial.
    Which is why people are still going on about what other people are getting. Bitterness is a nasty trait.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    Thats why we need a baby battleground for UC and Cavs... With a reward reduction of course.
  • AntsiouAntsiou Member Posts: 188 ★★
    edited March 2023
    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    Thats why we need a baby battleground for UC and Cavs... With a reward reduction of course.
    Lol, the reward reduction is already in place, just hidden behind a shop.
    It would be more obvious if the price in the store were the same but UC and cav got less tokens than paragon for the milestones.
    End result is the same. So I don’t really understand what you are getting at.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Antsiou said:

    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    Thats why we need a baby battleground for UC and Cavs... With a reward reduction of course.
    Lol, the reward reduction is already in place, just hidden behind a shop.
    It would be more obvious if the price in the store were the same but UC and cav got less tokens than paragon for the milestones.
    End result is the same. So I don’t really understand what you are getting at.
    The reduction of rewards can be made thru changing the currency... What i am getting at?..
    The number of cav players with 6r3s... UCs with 6*.. they shouldn't even have access to a currency that later on can use to purchase mats and items beyond their progression...
    Also a baby battleground would close the gap in matchmaking, not solve but at least close the gap...
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,560 ★★★★★
    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,560 ★★★★★

    Gonna comment on the OP because that's why we're here, but I do want to say that I really appreciate and agree with what Jax said previously in this thread.

    Here goes:

    First of all Battlegrounds CAN be a lot of fun when things go right, however that is very rare.

    - Is that very rare? What kind of data pool are you pulling from to back this up? I've personally had pretty decent luck in BGs when it comes to bugs/modders/connection drop etc (assuming this is what you mean when "things go right" although that is a super vague statement), and while I could be an outlier in the overall population, so could an experience when things rarely go right. -

    Way back when BG was in early beta everyone loved it. Then they added the tracks. The victory track is an okay idea with a horribly bad execution. “Lets take the sweatest players, mixed them with the casuals, and have them fight it out for rewards. “
    - For the record, not everybody loved it, and I feel like there have always been those who do not prefer the format. However, the whole point of a competitive mode is to mix together players in a.... competitive... format. Casuals can still play with friends, but if casuals want the same rewards as "sweaty" players, then they should have to compete for them. The nature of the mode.

    Idk, doesnt sound like much fun for anyone other than the try hards. But thats not the big problem.
    - Again, the whole point of the mode is that the harder you try (and presumably the better you play), the better you get rewarded. This can be alleviated but not really taken away unless the mode is fundamentally different.

    Arguably, those two groups would separate after the 1st week or so, so not a major issue. The issue is the design. Having to win 3 matches + or - is ok but having people lose “wins” is a major design flaw for casual players.
    - What is the difference between losing wins and having to win 3 matches + or - , is that not considering the - ?

    Sure the try hards dont care, but the ppl only playing 3 matches a day it becomes bad.
    - Anyone spending ~30 minutes/day on a mode may not be a try hard, but is certainly not casual.

    Lets count the feel bads.
    1. You lose the match. Ok it happens to everyone but it is a fee bad.
    2. Now the awesome win you just got is take away. Hope you enjoyed it while it was there!
    3. God help you if the game glitched for some reason between defenders going unblockable to parry not working to abilities not triggering, ive seen it all.

    - This doesn't seem to have much of a point.

    Ohh, and lets not forget about matchmaking.
    - You proceed to not mention matchmaking or making any point about it.

    So why should anyone who is not competitive play this format???
    - They can, with friendly matches. They shouldn't play it in competitive mode if they dont want to be competitive.

    All you do is make ppl feel bad every third match.
    - You actually undersell this point. They make someone feel bad every match, it just isn't always you.

    Can you can really blame ppl for hacking it when kabam can make it fair and enjoyable from the start.
    Obviously, dont hack but if someone just did it for the milestones and didnt affect the competitive players would you blame them???

    - I can't even begin to describe how incorrect this is. Even beyond hacking in any other game mode, hacking in a competitive mode literally directly impacts every single player that you face, and then everyone below you in the ranked mode. I would blame them for doing somethng wrong because the act itself was wrong, regardless of the percieved impact.

    Just want to dig deeper into this mentality for a second. Life is hard, is not always fair, and can be unenjoyable. Does that give people the right to take what makes your life enjoayble for themselves? Maybe you have a really whack morality system, but I assume that doing the wrong thing -and- negatively affecting others (or yourself) typically checks the box for worthy of blame. I'll also not go into the widespread ramifications of negatively affecting a system by doing things against the rules when others don't because "it doesn't affect them".

    Kabam has locked the best store in the game behind the most painful experience in the game. All to make an extra few dollars on victory shield.
    - Most painful is subjective, and I doubt that victory shields is where they are making the most money when it comes to BGs.

    Its shameful,
    I would argue that countenancing cheating is far more shameful than the actual actions and design of Kabam here.

    I encourage ppl to play it as little as possible
    - Advice that people can take if they think your arguments hold merit.

    Thank you
    Probably the best part of the whole post. I do prefer when people wrap things up in a respecful way.

    Overall, not the best argument against BGs, nor extremely compelling. Hopefully I wasn't unreasonably rude or anything, but I wanted to add my thoughts what I tried to make a productive way.

    Best,
    Squirrelguy

    @Squirrelguy ,

    Antsiou said:

    The idea that rewards are the same for everyone isn’t actually true.
    My main is paragon and my alt is cavalier.
    The bg store has highly inflated prices for the cav. 1k 6* shards is 1200 token in cav, 450 in paragon store.
    Maybe that balances out the progression as my cav account has an at any given time about 20 wins for 5 loss in the match history.
    Whereas my more developed paragon (16 R4) has about 50% win ratio.
    I play casually my cav and have a lot of fun raking up victories, still in gold 2. Haven’t used any token for rewards almost.
    I play competitively with my paragon account and feel like a king when I win, and like a bum when I loose, in diamond 1 with two win right now, afraid to play more and lose.

    Wrong.

    Prices have nothing to do with the FACT that the rewards are the same for everyone. Where you buy groceries doesn't change how much money you make either.
    Oh my god it does. The value of currency is everything. Making 120k in India is nothing close to making 120k in the US. You're not being paid the same
    You conveniently left out the unit of said currency. If they are being paid 120k $ vs 120k rupees, you are right that they are not being paid the same. If they are being paid 120k$ each or 120k rupees each, then they are earning the same. How and where they live or spend is irrelevant to their earning.
  • AntsiouAntsiou Member Posts: 188 ★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
    I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices.
    I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate :smile:
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Antsiou said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
    I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices.
    I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate :smile:
    Its really not.. there is a reason why u see Cavs with multiple r3s comfortable in their progression (which is 100% valid); but then they complain about having to face higher progression players when its their choice to limit their progression
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,646 ★★★★★
    People complain. Murphy's Law of a game forum is, wherever someone CAN complain, they WILL complain. The question is, is it an isolated complaint? Is there merit to it? Are there a number of complaints that highlight an issue?
    I'm not entirely sure why people assume that the only deciding factor to changes is the amount of people who complain about something, but if there's a problem, then there's a problem. I have yet to see a developer alter the system without some form of internal evidence or conflict with their own objectives, simply by popular vote.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,646 ★★★★★
    Now, if something is a benign addition or alteration, then most often they're happy to oblige.
    When you're talking about complex systems, they're not going to change the Matchmaking just because some lower Players complained, end-of.
  • AntsiouAntsiou Member Posts: 188 ★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Antsiou said:

    The idea that rewards are the same for everyone isn’t actually true.
    My main is paragon and my alt is cavalier.
    The bg store has highly inflated prices for the cav. 1k 6* shards is 1200 token in cav, 450 in paragon store.

    The problem with this perspective is that it doesn't stop there. A 6* crystal is enormously valuable to a UC player but a trivial reward to a high progress Paragon. The reason why rewards are different at different progress tiers is due to appropriateness. Rewards are designed to be appropriate to different tiers. For example, the rewards for monthly EQ are designed so that, on average, the UC tier rewards are about as impactful to UCs as the Cav tier rewards are to Cavs. Every player is different so no two players will judge the rewards identically, but on average that's the intent.

    The same thing is true for currency stores. T5B is more expensive for Cavs than Paragons in the BG store because T5B is far more valuable to Cavs than Paragons. It is cheaper for Paragons because they need so much more of it to make any kind of difference.

    So if you say that the lower tier rewards are actually lower for them than the higher tier rewards are even though the numbers are identical because store prices cause lower progress players to be able to buy less stuff, the countervailing objection is that those prices are higher because those things are actually more valuable to those players, and this basically cancels out.

    To put it in a more simple way, what 50000 tokens buys for a Cav is intended to be as valuable to that Cav as what 50000 tokens buys for a Paragon should be worth to that Paragon. So if the Cav player earns more tokens, they can buy more value, relative to their progress.

    Take the 6* shard price. If it is 1200 for Cav and 450 for Paragon that means the Cav price is 2.67 times higher. However, I can tell you that on a proportional basis, I would be *way* happier with five 6* crystals on my Cav alt than two 6* crystals on my main Paragon account. The five 6* crystals could be game changing on a Cav. The two 6* crystals on my main have essentially zero chance to have that sort of impact. They are just more stuff. Because I was going for maximum featured 6* crystals during the previous iteration I was buying tons of those 6* bundles from the BG store. Once that crystal rolled, I have so far bought exactly zero.
    I understand the relative value of items based on progression level, as stated before, I run a cav and a paragon account. My cav got a good amount of t5cc and t3 Alpha during banquet, I have no direct use for them, so their value for my cav account is right now about zero.
    Same cav account is trying to grow roster, so I'm happy to buy 6* shards for 1200 if I need to. I don't go and complain about the price, I never did, I just said that my paragon pays 450 for the same 1000 6* shards.
    If in general acquiring 6* champs is less of a necessity as a paragon (and again, within this progression level, the mileage may vary). I still find them valuable to increase sig ability, awaken certain champs (if RNGesus is helping) or filling gap in certain area.
    Also I didn't quite understand why you used five 6* crystals for cav in comparison to acquiring two 6* crystals as paragon. Based prices difference of 2.67, I would have compared the "happiness" of buying ONE 6* crystal for 12 000 token as a cav vs buying 2,67 6* crystals for the same amount as a Paragon. Personally, I'll be happy with each buy for each of my account. Different needs, different size, also different rewards.


  • AntsiouAntsiou Member Posts: 188 ★★
    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
    I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices.
    I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate :smile:
    Its really not.. there is a reason why u see Cavs with multiple r3s comfortable in their progression (which is 100% valid); but then they complain about having to face higher progression players when its their choice to limit their progression
    Mate,
    you're trying to have an argument about something I've never even commented on.
    Take that with people complaining about facing higher progression players, not me. I'm talking reward structure.
    For the record, the big swings in matchmaking have only happened on my paragon account. My cav has been pretty fairly match all the way, and I get a good win ratio cause I'm probably playing with "real" cav, not paragon having a 2nd account to relax.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Antsiou said:

    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
    I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices.
    I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate :smile:
    Its really not.. there is a reason why u see Cavs with multiple r3s comfortable in their progression (which is 100% valid); but then they complain about having to face higher progression players when its their choice to limit their progression
    Mate,
    you're trying to have an argument about something I've never even commented on.
    Take that with people complaining about facing higher progression players, not me. I'm talking reward structure.
    For the record, the big swings in matchmaking have only happened on my paragon account. My cav has been pretty fairly match all the way, and I get a good win ratio cause I'm probably playing with "real" cav, not paragon having a 2nd account to relax.
    Smh im am not trying to have an argument . U said the prices were different for progression levels, true; but its the same currency to buy items for upper progressions ..
    They should not be gaining currency to go over their progression level. They should have a baby bg with a different currency to buy their items
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,646 ★★★★★
    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
    I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices.
    I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate :smile:
    Its really not.. there is a reason why u see Cavs with multiple r3s comfortable in their progression (which is 100% valid); but then they complain about having to face higher progression players when its their choice to limit their progression
    Mate,
    you're trying to have an argument about something I've never even commented on.
    Take that with people complaining about facing higher progression players, not me. I'm talking reward structure.
    For the record, the big swings in matchmaking have only happened on my paragon account. My cav has been pretty fairly match all the way, and I get a good win ratio cause I'm probably playing with "real" cav, not paragon having a 2nd account to relax.
    Smh im am not trying to have an argument . U said the prices were different for progression levels, true; but its the same currency to buy items for upper progressions ..
    They should not be gaining currency to go over their progression level. They should have a baby bg with a different currency to buy their items
    That's moot. The currency can be buttons or bows, and it's still only as useful as the Store will allow them to purchase. If anything, it provides motivation to progress because they gain the next Title, and have better Items available, with reduced costs.
    I don't know why it's seen as an issue because it's the same currency. You could call them Tokens or Jokens, really doesn't matter. They're limited as to what they can buy.
    Honestly, it sounds like you just don't approve of them getting the same currency as higher Players, which is trivial. It's available to anyone in the VT. There's not a limited amount that they're vying for.
  • AntsiouAntsiou Member Posts: 188 ★★
    @Coppin you're moving the goal post or just want to make your point about baby league as you call it.
    go at it, I have no inclination one way or another on wether it should be a thing or not.
    To make my point clearer, my cav account cannot buy 6* sig stones as they are locked behind progression title. So even if I have the same amount of token as my paragon account, I CAN'T spend it on those. Hence not the same rewards. it's simple. I'm stating a fact, not wether I think think it's fair or not (I think it is by the way).
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Antsiou said:

    @Coppin you're moving the goal post or just want to make your point about baby league as you call it.
    go at it, I have no inclination one way or another on wether it should be a thing or not.
    To make my point clearer, my cav account cannot buy 6* sig stones as they are locked behind progression title. So even if I have the same amount of token as my paragon account, I CAN'T spend it on those. Hence not the same rewards. it's simple. I'm stating a fact, not wether I think think it's fair or not (I think it is by the way).

    Can your cav account buy t5b and t2a?..
    I'm moving the goal post and u only mention 6* sig stones 🤣
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    edited March 2023

    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
    I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices.
    I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate :smile:
    Its really not.. there is a reason why u see Cavs with multiple r3s comfortable in their progression (which is 100% valid); but then they complain about having to face higher progression players when its their choice to limit their progression
    Mate,
    you're trying to have an argument about something I've never even commented on.
    Take that with people complaining about facing higher progression players, not me. I'm talking reward structure.
    For the record, the big swings in matchmaking have only happened on my paragon account. My cav has been pretty fairly match all the way, and I get a good win ratio cause I'm probably playing with "real" cav, not paragon having a 2nd account to relax.
    Smh im am not trying to have an argument . U said the prices were different for progression levels, true; but its the same currency to buy items for upper progressions ..
    They should not be gaining currency to go over their progression level. They should have a baby bg with a different currency to buy their items
    That's moot. The currency can be buttons or bows, and it's still only as useful as the Store will allow them to purchase. If anything, it provides motivation to progress because they gain the next Title, and have better Items available, with reduced costs.
    I don't know why it's seen as an issue because it's the same currency. You could call them Tokens or Jokens, really doesn't matter. They're limited as to what they can buy.
    Honestly, it sounds like you just don't approve of them getting the same currency as higher Players, which is trivial. It's available to anyone in the VT. There's not a limited amount that they're vying for.
    Its not cause as people have stated u can hoard them as u progress...
    And u right i do not like that UC and Cavs are getting rewarded with the same currency as TB and Paragon
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,646 ★★★★★
    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
    I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices.
    I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate :smile:
    Its really not.. there is a reason why u see Cavs with multiple r3s comfortable in their progression (which is 100% valid); but then they complain about having to face higher progression players when its their choice to limit their progression
    Mate,
    you're trying to have an argument about something I've never even commented on.
    Take that with people complaining about facing higher progression players, not me. I'm talking reward structure.
    For the record, the big swings in matchmaking have only happened on my paragon account. My cav has been pretty fairly match all the way, and I get a good win ratio cause I'm probably playing with "real" cav, not paragon having a 2nd account to relax.
    Smh im am not trying to have an argument . U said the prices were different for progression levels, true; but its the same currency to buy items for upper progressions ..
    They should not be gaining currency to go over their progression level. They should have a baby bg with a different currency to buy their items
    That's moot. The currency can be buttons or bows, and it's still only as useful as the Store will allow them to purchase. If anything, it provides motivation to progress because they gain the next Title, and have better Items available, with reduced costs.
    I don't know why it's seen as an issue because it's the same currency. You could call them Tokens or Jokens, really doesn't matter. They're limited as to what they can buy.
    Honestly, it sounds like you just don't approve of them getting the same currency as higher Players, which is trivial. It's available to anyone in the VT. There's not a limited amount that they're vying for.
    Its not cause as people have stated u can hoard them as u progress...
    So....what you're saying is contradicting your point. Lower Players shouldn't have the currency, even though they can't use it the same way, because they'll hoard it until they're not lower Players anymore? This makes sense to you?
    They're not going to hoard it indefinitely. They're going to use whatever they get to progress. Even if they did hoard it, they would progress and no longer be in the group you feel shouldn't have it, so your argument is pointless.
  • AntsiouAntsiou Member Posts: 188 ★★
    edited March 2023
    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    @Coppin you're moving the goal post or just want to make your point about baby league as you call it.
    go at it, I have no inclination one way or another on wether it should be a thing or not.
    To make my point clearer, my cav account cannot buy 6* sig stones as they are locked behind progression title. So even if I have the same amount of token as my paragon account, I CAN'T spend it on those. Hence not the same rewards. it's simple. I'm stating a fact, not wether I think think it's fair or not (I think it is by the way).

    Can your cav account buy t5b and t2a?..
    I'm moving the goal post and u only mention 6* sig stones 🤣
    Ok, you want to be precise, let's go.
    Cav Store has 20 items to choose from, with two of them locked by progress (why they are showed at all is a "marketing mystery), so in actuality 18.
    Paragon store has 24 items to choose from, all unlocked.
    Paragon can buy 6 more items than Cav. If you think those are the same rewards, I'll swap my baby cav account store for your paragon store, we both keep our hard earned token and we have a deal. What do you say?
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Antsiou said:

    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    @Coppin you're moving the goal post or just want to make your point about baby league as you call it.
    go at it, I have no inclination one way or another on wether it should be a thing or not.
    To make my point clearer, my cav account cannot buy 6* sig stones as they are locked behind progression title. So even if I have the same amount of token as my paragon account, I CAN'T spend it on those. Hence not the same rewards. it's simple. I'm stating a fact, not wether I think think it's fair or not (I think it is by the way).

    Can your cav account buy t5b and t2a?..
    I'm moving the goal post and u only mention 6* sig stones 🤣
    Ok, you want to be precise, let's go.
    Cav Store has 20 items to choose from, with two of them locked by progress (why they are showed at all is a "marketing mystery), so in actuality 18.
    Paragon store has 24 items to choose from, all unlocked.
    Paragon can buy 6 more items than Cav. If you think those are the same rewards, I'll swap my baby cav account store for your paragon store and we have a deal.
    The rewards are the currency not what is in the store.
    I would like to think u have a job where u receive money for your work and not a fruit basket and cart full of groceries...
  • AntsiouAntsiou Member Posts: 188 ★★
    edited March 2023
    @Coppin what you gonna do with all those "currency" rewards if there's nothing to spend on? Twist it however you want, you don't play to have a large amount of tokens to impress your ally mates with. If you do, more power to you. But people play to earn currency/token to buy stuff.

    alright, time to lay that pointless discussion to rest, I have some token to earn. See you in the BG. :D
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
    I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices.
    I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate :smile:
    Its really not.. there is a reason why u see Cavs with multiple r3s comfortable in their progression (which is 100% valid); but then they complain about having to face higher progression players when its their choice to limit their progression
    Mate,
    you're trying to have an argument about something I've never even commented on.
    Take that with people complaining about facing higher progression players, not me. I'm talking reward structure.
    For the record, the big swings in matchmaking have only happened on my paragon account. My cav has been pretty fairly match all the way, and I get a good win ratio cause I'm probably playing with "real" cav, not paragon having a 2nd account to relax.
    Smh im am not trying to have an argument . U said the prices were different for progression levels, true; but its the same currency to buy items for upper progressions ..
    They should not be gaining currency to go over their progression level. They should have a baby bg with a different currency to buy their items
    That's moot. The currency can be buttons or bows, and it's still only as useful as the Store will allow them to purchase. If anything, it provides motivation to progress because they gain the next Title, and have better Items available, with reduced costs.
    I don't know why it's seen as an issue because it's the same currency. You could call them Tokens or Jokens, really doesn't matter. They're limited as to what they can buy.
    Honestly, it sounds like you just don't approve of them getting the same currency as higher Players, which is trivial. It's available to anyone in the VT. There's not a limited amount that they're vying for.
    Its not cause as people have stated u can hoard them as u progress...
    So....what you're saying is contradicting your point. Lower Players shouldn't have the currency, even though they can't use it the same way, because they'll hoard it until they're not lower Players anymore? This makes sense to you?
    They're not going to hoard it indefinitely. They're going to use whatever they get to progress. Even if they did hoard it, they would progress and no longer be in the group you feel shouldn't have it, so your argument is pointless.
    How am i contradicting myself? You like to steer conversations just to make your point...
    The reward is the currency, now receiving the same currency as a Paragon allows u to have easier access to future items. It also allows a system where u have Cavalliers with multiple r3s that don't even care about being TB and on top of that complain about TBs and Paragons "Stronger Teams"
    Pointless?.. really?.. how is the opinion of someone who is shooting for progression the same as someone who just stay in his current?
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,560 ★★★★★
    Antsiou said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
    I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices.
    I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate :smile:
    You still didn’t answer what your thoughts are about AQ? Do people with different progression titles in the same alliance get different rewards or the same rewards?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,646 ★★★★★
    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    Coppin said:

    Antsiou said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Antsiou said:

    No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.

    The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.

    Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine.
    I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent.
    The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power.
    Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards.
    The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.

    By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
    I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices.
    I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate :smile:
    Its really not.. there is a reason why u see Cavs with multiple r3s comfortable in their progression (which is 100% valid); but then they complain about having to face higher progression players when its their choice to limit their progression
    Mate,
    you're trying to have an argument about something I've never even commented on.
    Take that with people complaining about facing higher progression players, not me. I'm talking reward structure.
    For the record, the big swings in matchmaking have only happened on my paragon account. My cav has been pretty fairly match all the way, and I get a good win ratio cause I'm probably playing with "real" cav, not paragon having a 2nd account to relax.
    Smh im am not trying to have an argument . U said the prices were different for progression levels, true; but its the same currency to buy items for upper progressions ..
    They should not be gaining currency to go over their progression level. They should have a baby bg with a different currency to buy their items
    That's moot. The currency can be buttons or bows, and it's still only as useful as the Store will allow them to purchase. If anything, it provides motivation to progress because they gain the next Title, and have better Items available, with reduced costs.
    I don't know why it's seen as an issue because it's the same currency. You could call them Tokens or Jokens, really doesn't matter. They're limited as to what they can buy.
    Honestly, it sounds like you just don't approve of them getting the same currency as higher Players, which is trivial. It's available to anyone in the VT. There's not a limited amount that they're vying for.
    Its not cause as people have stated u can hoard them as u progress...
    So....what you're saying is contradicting your point. Lower Players shouldn't have the currency, even though they can't use it the same way, because they'll hoard it until they're not lower Players anymore? This makes sense to you?
    They're not going to hoard it indefinitely. They're going to use whatever they get to progress. Even if they did hoard it, they would progress and no longer be in the group you feel shouldn't have it, so your argument is pointless.
    How am i contradicting myself? You like to steer conversations just to make your point...
    The reward is the currency, now receiving the same currency as a Paragon allows u to have easier access to future items. It also allows a system where u have Cavalliers with multiple r3s that don't even care about being TB and on top of that complain about TBs and Paragons "Stronger Teams"
    Pointless?.. really?.. how is the opinion of someone who is shooting for progression the same as someone who just stay in his current?
    I'm sorry but that's just a stretch. You have an issue with Cavs who complain. That much is clear.
    You're talking about an outlier of Players that don't care to progress. Which are rare. As a TB 7 years into the game, I know it's a rarity to have people who take their time. That's not a testament to general progress, and I never assume everyone plays like me because I know it's a unique case.
    Back to your point, no one wanting to progress to TB from Cav is going to sit on their currency that long. That's just not a thing. They're going to use it to get to TB.
    If something is a viable issue for Rewards balancing, I'm all ears. If you're just personally offended that they're on the same payroll (with lesser-valued currency), then that's a personal preference.
    Nothing is stopping anyone from sitting on any Resources until they advance. That's the same anywhere else in the game.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Antsiou said:

    @Coppin what you gonna do with all those "currency" rewards if there's nothing to spend on? Twist it however you want, you don't play to have a large amount of tokens to impress your ally mates with. If you do, more power to you. But people play to earn currency/token to buy stuff.

    alright, time to lay that pointless discussion to rest, I have some token to earn. See you in the BG. :D

    Who said there was nothing to spend it on? 🤣 Did u really accuse me of moving the goal post.. and now you are saying there is nothing to spend it on? When u clearly said there was 18 items?...
    Cavs should be able to buy those 18 items . Not at the same reward for a Paragon...
    How does it even make sense that VT has 30k trophies at stake and UC/Cav can earn it the same way as TB/Para?..
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