No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.
The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.
Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine. I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent. The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power. Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards. The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.
By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices. I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate
Its really not.. there is a reason why u see Cavs with multiple r3s comfortable in their progression (which is 100% valid); but then they complain about having to face higher progression players when its their choice to limit their progression
Mate, you're trying to have an argument about something I've never even commented on. Take that with people complaining about facing higher progression players, not me. I'm talking reward structure. For the record, the big swings in matchmaking have only happened on my paragon account. My cav has been pretty fairly match all the way, and I get a good win ratio cause I'm probably playing with "real" cav, not paragon having a 2nd account to relax.
Smh im am not trying to have an argument . U said the prices were different for progression levels, true; but its the same currency to buy items for upper progressions .. They should not be gaining currency to go over their progression level. They should have a baby bg with a different currency to buy their items
That's moot. The currency can be buttons or bows, and it's still only as useful as the Store will allow them to purchase. If anything, it provides motivation to progress because they gain the next Title, and have better Items available, with reduced costs. I don't know why it's seen as an issue because it's the same currency. You could call them Tokens or Jokens, really doesn't matter. They're limited as to what they can buy. Honestly, it sounds like you just don't approve of them getting the same currency as higher Players, which is trivial. It's available to anyone in the VT. There's not a limited amount that they're vying for.
Its not cause as people have stated u can hoard them as u progress...
So....what you're saying is contradicting your point. Lower Players shouldn't have the currency, even though they can't use it the same way, because they'll hoard it until they're not lower Players anymore? This makes sense to you? They're not going to hoard it indefinitely. They're going to use whatever they get to progress. Even if they did hoard it, they would progress and no longer be in the group you feel shouldn't have it, so your argument is pointless.
How am i contradicting myself? You like to steer conversations just to make your point... The reward is the currency, now receiving the same currency as a Paragon allows u to have easier access to future items. It also allows a system where u have Cavalliers with multiple r3s that don't even care about being TB and on top of that complain about TBs and Paragons "Stronger Teams" Pointless?.. really?.. how is the opinion of someone who is shooting for progression the same as someone who just stay in his current?
I'm sorry but that's just a stretch. You have an issue with Cavs who complain. That much is clear. You're talking about an outlier of Players that don't care to progress. Which are rare. As a TB 7 years into the game, I know it's a rarity to have people who take their time. That's not a testament to general progress, and I never assume everyone plays like me because I know it's a unique case. Back to your point, no one wanting to progress to TB from Cav is going to sit on their currency that long. That's just not a thing. They're going to use it to get to TB. If something is a viable issue for Rewards balancing, I'm all ears. If you're just personally offended that they're on the same payroll (with lesser-valued currency), then that's a personal preference. Nothing is stopping anyone from sitting on any Resources until they advance. That's the same anywhere else in the game.
Didn't even know u were TB so if u felt i threw a jab at u wasn't the case... The reason why i name Cavs so much is because there is a key fight to overpass and that is not done with Champs... Its a rite of passage.. the transition from Cav to TB is a lot harder than TB to Paragon. And you really think that no one is gonna sit?.. Cause as soon as a 7*s become a thing everyone sits on previous currency cause the meta changed...
No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.
The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.
Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine. I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent. The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power. Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards. The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.
By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices. I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate
Its really not.. there is a reason why u see Cavs with multiple r3s comfortable in their progression (which is 100% valid); but then they complain about having to face higher progression players when its their choice to limit their progression
Mate, you're trying to have an argument about something I've never even commented on. Take that with people complaining about facing higher progression players, not me. I'm talking reward structure. For the record, the big swings in matchmaking have only happened on my paragon account. My cav has been pretty fairly match all the way, and I get a good win ratio cause I'm probably playing with "real" cav, not paragon having a 2nd account to relax.
Smh im am not trying to have an argument . U said the prices were different for progression levels, true; but its the same currency to buy items for upper progressions .. They should not be gaining currency to go over their progression level. They should have a baby bg with a different currency to buy their items
That's moot. The currency can be buttons or bows, and it's still only as useful as the Store will allow them to purchase. If anything, it provides motivation to progress because they gain the next Title, and have better Items available, with reduced costs. I don't know why it's seen as an issue because it's the same currency. You could call them Tokens or Jokens, really doesn't matter. They're limited as to what they can buy. Honestly, it sounds like you just don't approve of them getting the same currency as higher Players, which is trivial. It's available to anyone in the VT. There's not a limited amount that they're vying for.
Its not cause as people have stated u can hoard them as u progress...
So....what you're saying is contradicting your point. Lower Players shouldn't have the currency, even though they can't use it the same way, because they'll hoard it until they're not lower Players anymore? This makes sense to you? They're not going to hoard it indefinitely. They're going to use whatever they get to progress. Even if they did hoard it, they would progress and no longer be in the group you feel shouldn't have it, so your argument is pointless.
How am i contradicting myself? You like to steer conversations just to make your point... The reward is the currency, now receiving the same currency as a Paragon allows u to have easier access to future items. It also allows a system where u have Cavalliers with multiple r3s that don't even care about being TB and on top of that complain about TBs and Paragons "Stronger Teams" Pointless?.. really?.. how is the opinion of someone who is shooting for progression the same as someone who just stay in his current?
I'm sorry but that's just a stretch. You have an issue with Cavs who complain. That much is clear. You're talking about an outlier of Players that don't care to progress. Which are rare. As a TB 7 years into the game, I know it's a rarity to have people who take their time. That's not a testament to general progress, and I never assume everyone plays like me because I know it's a unique case. Back to your point, no one wanting to progress to TB from Cav is going to sit on their currency that long. That's just not a thing. They're going to use it to get to TB. If something is a viable issue for Rewards balancing, I'm all ears. If you're just personally offended that they're on the same payroll (with lesser-valued currency), then that's a personal preference. Nothing is stopping anyone from sitting on any Resources until they advance. That's the same anywhere else in the game.
Is the transition from Cav to TB the same as TB to Paragon? I didnt even know you were TB so if u felt i threw a jab at u, it wasn't my intention. Cav to TB is a rite of passage, takes beating the Grandmaster which can be done with ANY CHAMP, the only roadblock is farming the units and resources to get thru it if you are an avg player. So yeah I do not believe a player who decides not to take that rite of passage should have access to the same rewards a player who did...
No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.
The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.
Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine. I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent. The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power. Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards. The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.
By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices. I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate
Its really not.. there is a reason why u see Cavs with multiple r3s comfortable in their progression (which is 100% valid); but then they complain about having to face higher progression players when its their choice to limit their progression
Mate, you're trying to have an argument about something I've never even commented on. Take that with people complaining about facing higher progression players, not me. I'm talking reward structure. For the record, the big swings in matchmaking have only happened on my paragon account. My cav has been pretty fairly match all the way, and I get a good win ratio cause I'm probably playing with "real" cav, not paragon having a 2nd account to relax.
Smh im am not trying to have an argument . U said the prices were different for progression levels, true; but its the same currency to buy items for upper progressions .. They should not be gaining currency to go over their progression level. They should have a baby bg with a different currency to buy their items
That's moot. The currency can be buttons or bows, and it's still only as useful as the Store will allow them to purchase. If anything, it provides motivation to progress because they gain the next Title, and have better Items available, with reduced costs. I don't know why it's seen as an issue because it's the same currency. You could call them Tokens or Jokens, really doesn't matter. They're limited as to what they can buy. Honestly, it sounds like you just don't approve of them getting the same currency as higher Players, which is trivial. It's available to anyone in the VT. There's not a limited amount that they're vying for.
Its not cause as people have stated u can hoard them as u progress...
So....what you're saying is contradicting your point. Lower Players shouldn't have the currency, even though they can't use it the same way, because they'll hoard it until they're not lower Players anymore? This makes sense to you? They're not going to hoard it indefinitely. They're going to use whatever they get to progress. Even if they did hoard it, they would progress and no longer be in the group you feel shouldn't have it, so your argument is pointless.
How am i contradicting myself? You like to steer conversations just to make your point... The reward is the currency, now receiving the same currency as a Paragon allows u to have easier access to future items. It also allows a system where u have Cavalliers with multiple r3s that don't even care about being TB and on top of that complain about TBs and Paragons "Stronger Teams" Pointless?.. really?.. how is the opinion of someone who is shooting for progression the same as someone who just stay in his current?
I'm sorry but that's just a stretch. You have an issue with Cavs who complain. That much is clear. You're talking about an outlier of Players that don't care to progress. Which are rare. As a TB 7 years into the game, I know it's a rarity to have people who take their time. That's not a testament to general progress, and I never assume everyone plays like me because I know it's a unique case. Back to your point, no one wanting to progress to TB from Cav is going to sit on their currency that long. That's just not a thing. They're going to use it to get to TB. If something is a viable issue for Rewards balancing, I'm all ears. If you're just personally offended that they're on the same payroll (with lesser-valued currency), then that's a personal preference. Nothing is stopping anyone from sitting on any Resources until they advance. That's the same anywhere else in the game.
Is the transition from Cav to TB the same as TB to Paragon? I didnt even know you were TB so if u felt i threw a jab at u, it wasn't my intention. Cav to TB is a rite of passage, takes beating the Grandmaster which can be done with ANY CHAMP, the only roadblock is farming the units and resources to get thru it if you are an avg player. So yeah I do not believe a player who decides not to take that rite of passage should have access to the same rewards a player who did...
No, I never considered it personal. I was simply using it as an example, because I know I'm an oddity. There is a limit to what you can spend, there's a limit to what you can hold, and sooner or later they're either going to use them to progress, or wait until the Store pays more. Either way it's not really a major concern. I don't see this as being a large issue. It's a new game mode, with additional Resources. It's going to contribute to progress no matter where someone is at.
No one is forcing you to spend in the store before increasing your progression. If you choose to spend your paycheck immediately instead of waiting for a sale or to get to a cheaper store, that's on you.
The hoops some are trying to jump through to disprove a concrete fact is just amazing.
Man, you’re twisting my words, or including others people opinions into mine. I’ll give you that the amount of currency you earn is the same, no matter the progression level you’re at. But that currency is worth nothing if not spent. The “real” rewards are what you buy with said currency. And higher progression level have higher buying power. Never did I say I was unhappy with that, I just stated the myth that everyone is competing for the same rewards. The only thing intrinsically similar are relics stuff, but who cares 😉.
By the same token, are you suggesting that for the same map in AQ, people are earning different rewards based on their progression title? My cavalier team mate will be devastated to hear that his efforts mean less than mine since the glory is not the reward but what you buy with glory is the reward in your opinion.
I'm not suggesting anything about Aq or any other game mode. I'm just stating that the rewards are different based on progression level in BG, and this difference in rewards isn't apparent at first because each progression level can earn the same amount of token, that can then be spent in the respective store with their respective prices. I have no ill will for your fellow cav team mate
You still didn’t answer what your thoughts are about AQ? Do people with different progression titles in the same alliance get different rewards or the same rewards?
As I said already, I don't really have an opinion on AQ, it's something you brought up. But to entertain the idea, I'd argue that the progression separation is somehow built in at map level. Playing map 5 gives a different set of rewards than map 8 or map 1 regardless of title. Since it's a collaborative mode, not competitive, the alliance makes the choices of map they want to clear. So, as long as you play in an ally, no matter your progression level, you get the reward the ally is playing for, based on the map. No need to separate rewards individually as far as I can see (unless there's freeloader). I don't have more thoughts to share on this, if you do, I suggest you start a different thread as this is not so much about BG anymore.
The rewards are the currency not what is in the store. I would like to think u have a job where u receive money for your work and not a fruit basket and cart full of groceries...
Similarly, I would like to think you go to a store where your money has the same value as neighbor's. You wouldn't claim both of you have the same salary, if he can buy a car with his and you can only get a fruit basket.
The rewards are the currency not what is in the store. I would like to think u have a job where u receive money for your work and not a fruit basket and cart full of groceries...
Similarly, I would like to think you go to a store where your money has the same value as neighbor's. You wouldn't claim both of you have the same salary, if he can buy a car with his and you can only get a fruit basket.
Indeed. The salary (or rewards for @Coppin ) are the output of your work. Something somehow intangible you can use to do something. What you want to / can use your salary on is the outcome. Buy a house, a car or a fruit basket. My point is that the outcome differs vastly based on progression. And no one plays for the output if there’s no outcome associated with it. Hence rewards even though are the same currency, have different outcomes.
The rewards are the currency not what is in the store. I would like to think u have a job where u receive money for your work and not a fruit basket and cart full of groceries...
Similarly, I would like to think you go to a store where your money has the same value as neighbor's. You wouldn't claim both of you have the same salary, if he can buy a car with his and you can only get a fruit basket.
Your argument would be valid if they forced u to buy the fruit basket, its currency. How u dpend it its up to u .. I repeat, its ridiculous TB&Paragon play for the same 30k trophies throughout VT
The rewards are the currency not what is in the store. I would like to think u have a job where u receive money for your work and not a fruit basket and cart full of groceries...
Similarly, I would like to think you go to a store where your money has the same value as neighbor's. You wouldn't claim both of you have the same salary, if he can buy a car with his and you can only get a fruit basket.
Your argument would be valid if they forced u to buy the fruit basket, its currency. How u dpend it its up to u .. I repeat, its ridiculous TB&Paragon play for the same 30k trophies throughout VT
You forgot UC and Cavalier who play for the same trophies throughout VT. If TB and Paragon play for the same trophies is ridiculous, then UC and Paragons playing for the same trophies is beyond ridiculous, it's just mind blowing 🤯
The rewards are the currency not what is in the store. I would like to think u have a job where u receive money for your work and not a fruit basket and cart full of groceries...
Similarly, I would like to think you go to a store where your money has the same value as neighbor's. You wouldn't claim both of you have the same salary, if he can buy a car with his and you can only get a fruit basket.
Indeed. The salary (or rewards for @Coppin ) are the output of your work. Something somehow intangible you can use to do something. What you want to / can use your salary on is the outcome. Buy a house, a car or a fruit basket. My point is that the outcome differs vastly based on progression. And no one plays for the output if there’s no outcome associated with it. Hence rewards even though are the same currency, have different outcomes.
Rewards may have different outcomes, but they have similar impact to each progress tier of accounts. This means while UC players can't buy r4 mats from the store with their trophies like Paragons, they buy mats that have similar value for their accounts as the value of the mats that Paragons get to their accounts. Also let's don't forget the other rewards VT tiers offer, relics and elder marks which are exactly the same for everyone no matter of titles. Yet people choose to ignore those FACTS, because they are personally profiting from this situation.
Yes. People earn currency, and buy Rewards appropriate to where they're at. Thus, the game goes on. The more people imply that's an issue, the more it sounds like they just don't want people having Rewards.
The rewards are the currency not what is in the store. I would like to think u have a job where u receive money for your work and not a fruit basket and cart full of groceries...
Similarly, I would like to think you go to a store where your money has the same value as neighbor's. You wouldn't claim both of you have the same salary, if he can buy a car with his and you can only get a fruit basket.
Your argument would be valid if they forced u to buy the fruit basket, its currency. How u dpend it its up to u .. I repeat, its ridiculous TB&Paragon play for the same 30k trophies throughout VT
You forgot UC and Cavalier who play for the same trophies throughout VT. If TB and Paragon play for the same trophies is ridiculous, then UC and Paragons playing for the same trophies is beyond ridiculous, it's just mind blowing 🤯
Yes. People earn currency, and buy Rewards appropriate to where they're at. Thus, the game goes on. The more people imply that's an issue, the more it sounds like they just don't want people having Rewards.
The more lower progression complains about uneven matches while competing for the SAME REWARDS, the more they seem entitled to stuff...
IMO, most players will be much happier if level-up before platinum or even diamond don't require 3 wins in a row, instead it can be achieved by accumulated wins.
Also I didn't quite understand why you used five 6* crystals for cav in comparison to acquiring two 6* crystals as paragon. Based prices difference of 2.67, I would have compared the "happiness" of buying ONE 6* crystal for 12 000 token as a cav vs buying 2,67 6* crystals for the same amount as a Paragon. Personally, I'll be happy with each buy for each of my account. Different needs, different size, also different rewards.
That’s a mistake on my part. I accidentally reversed the numbers in that comparison. I meant to say that two 6* crystals for my Cav account would have a far greater impact on that account than five 6* crystals would for my Paragon account (reversing the ~2.5x cost/value ratio).
The point was that relative value depreciates with roster progress, and progressional stores reflect this, so comparing the costs between different progression stores can’t be used to prove one tier gets less value for their currency. That is, on at least the large statistical scale, factored into the stores costs by design. Which seems to be a point you’re agreeing to here, but that undermines the notion that lower progress players get less value from spending the same number of tokens.
Honestly, just removing the loss penalty in victory track would make BG more enjoyable for me. Let casual players get some of the rewards through accumulated wins in victory track and let the better rewards and more competitive play happen in gladiator's circuit. Seems like a simple fix.
The rewards are the currency not what is in the store. I would like to think u have a job where u receive money for your work and not a fruit basket and cart full of groceries...
Similarly, I would like to think you go to a store where your money has the same value as neighbor's. You wouldn't claim both of you have the same salary, if he can buy a car with his and you can only get a fruit basket.
Your argument would be valid if they forced u to buy the fruit basket, its currency. How u dpend it its up to u .. I repeat, its ridiculous TB&Paragon play for the same 30k trophies throughout VT
Your argument would be valid if the 30k trophies could get them access to the same items. They don't, would you have been ok if the Paragon store was kept but trophies were awarded by progression level - Cavs got 10k trophies while the Ps got 30k? It is the same thing now, with a bit more restrictions (not all items are available to lower levels either). Of course they are forced to buy items at inflated prices to adjust for the fact that numerically they are being awarded the same amount of currency. There are no other stores where they can take their trophies to, there is only one BG store.
The argument is that they can hoard the trophies, is immaterial. If those accounts can get to the highest progression levels without using BG resources, then more power to them. They are taking a harder path of committing time to a game mode without utilizing rewards and handicapping themselves by going through rest of the game at a lower strength than they could be at. They are also sacrificing time by halting their progression to get the rewards they then don't want to use, even with BG rewards it hardly makes sense to not complete Act 6 or 7 for months to collect 30k trophies, while giving up the other perks of higher titles. Eventually the game economy moves on, what is expensive today becomes more easily available and the value of those trophies diminish with time. Staying UC or Cav when one can get to TB/Paragon for say 6 months is a bad idea, for a competitive player. At the same time, I cannot imagine anyone but a competitive player bothering to even consider the options. The intersection of players gaming the BG rewards system with weaker teams (without mods) and competitive players is likely to be small. People who hoard probably don't care enough about progression, people who are seeking to progress are not getting the same rewards.
Eventually, the BG format requires many people to play. You need to find a match for everyone looking to play and in a short period. There are enough posts here explaining that. The rewards are high because that's the level at which the required number of people will try to get them.
The rewards are the currency not what is in the store. I would like to think u have a job where u receive money for your work and not a fruit basket and cart full of groceries...
Similarly, I would like to think you go to a store where your money has the same value as neighbor's. You wouldn't claim both of you have the same salary, if he can buy a car with his and you can only get a fruit basket.
Your argument would be valid if they forced u to buy the fruit basket, its currency. How u dpend it its up to u .. I repeat, its ridiculous TB&Paragon play for the same 30k trophies throughout VT
Your argument would be valid if the 30k trophies could get them access to the same items. They don't, would you have been ok if the Paragon store was kept but trophies were awarded by progression level - Cavs got 10k trophies while the Ps got 30k? It is the same thing now, with a bit more restrictions (not all items are available to lower levels either). Of course they are forced to buy items at inflated prices to adjust for the fact that numerically they are being awarded the same amount of currency. There are no other stores where they can take their trophies to, there is only one BG store.
The argument is that they can hoard the trophies, is immaterial. If those accounts can get to the highest progression levels without using BG resources, then more power to them. They are taking a harder path of committing time to a game mode without utilizing rewards and handicapping themselves by going through rest of the game at a lower strength than they could be at. They are also sacrificing time by halting their progression to get the rewards they then don't want to use, even with BG rewards it hardly makes sense to not complete Act 6 or 7 for months to collect 30k trophies, while giving up the other perks of higher titles. Eventually the game economy moves on, what is expensive today becomes more easily available and the value of those trophies diminish with time. Staying UC or Cav when one can get to TB/Paragon for say 6 months is a bad idea, for a competitive player. At the same time, I cannot imagine anyone but a competitive player bothering to even consider the options. The intersection of players gaming the BG rewards system with weaker teams (without mods) and competitive players is likely to be small. People who hoard probably don't care enough about progression, people who are seeking to progress are not getting the same rewards.
Eventually, the BG format requires many people to play. You need to find a match for everyone looking to play and in a short period. There are enough posts here explaining that. The rewards are high because that's the level at which the required number of people will try to get them.
Yeah I'm pretty sure no one was able to progress before BGs... All BGs does is speed up the process of acquiring champs and ranking it up, it doesnt mean they progress... There is a reason why you see so many Cavs with multiple r3s, on top of that complaining about being matched against stronger rosters when they should be TB... and they even have the nerve to say "Oh I am Cav why am i facing TBs!!" and maybe is that the roster doesnt fit the progression...
Also I didn't quite understand why you used five 6* crystals for cav in comparison to acquiring two 6* crystals as paragon. Based prices difference of 2.67, I would have compared the "happiness" of buying ONE 6* crystal for 12 000 token as a cav vs buying 2,67 6* crystals for the same amount as a Paragon. Personally, I'll be happy with each buy for each of my account. Different needs, different size, also different rewards.
That’s a mistake on my part. I accidentally reversed the numbers in that comparison. I meant to say that two 6* crystals for my Cav account would have a far greater impact on that account than five 6* crystals would for my Paragon account (reversing the ~2.5x cost/value ratio).
The point was that relative value depreciates with roster progress, and progressional stores reflect this, so comparing the costs between different progression stores can’t be used to prove one tier gets less value for their currency. That is, on at least the large statistical scale, factored into the stores costs by design. Which seems to be a point you’re agreeing to here, but that undermines the notion that lower progress players get less value from spending the same number of tokens.
Thanks for replying, after re-reading your comment I assumed it was a simple mistake of switching the numbers. I think we agree on the principles, I think also there’s some nuances when it comes to relative value of items, but that’s to be expected since people play at different pace for different reasons.
Yeah I'm pretty sure no one was able to progress before BGs... All BGs does is speed up the process of acquiring champs and ranking it up, it doesnt mean they progress... There is a reason why you see so many Cavs with multiple r3s, on top of that complaining about being matched against stronger rosters when they should be TB... and they even have the nerve to say "Oh I am Cav why am i facing TBs!!" and maybe is that the roster doesnt fit the progression...
If they aren't using BG resources to progress, then they aren't using the rewards. You have nothing to fear. If they are using BG rewards to buy resources to progress, then they pay more than you for same/lesser resources. Again you have nothing to fear. In either case they aren't getting the same rewards as you.
I'm not sure what you are upset about. Matchmaking, I get the concerns. Rewards, not so much - they aren't getting the same rewards as you (not if they are using it). I don't know why you think cavs should not have r3s, 7 stars will come in next few months. The year end banquet event will have 7 star shards, maybe in the crystals, definitely in the rank rewards. Same time next year are you going to complain about cavs with 7 stars?
Yeah I'm pretty sure no one was able to progress before BGs... All BGs does is speed up the process of acquiring champs and ranking it up, it doesnt mean they progress... There is a reason why you see so many Cavs with multiple r3s, on top of that complaining about being matched against stronger rosters when they should be TB... and they even have the nerve to say "Oh I am Cav why am i facing TBs!!" and maybe is that the roster doesnt fit the progression...
If they aren't using BG resources to progress, then they aren't using the rewards. You have nothing to fear. If they are using BG rewards to buy resources to progress, then they pay more than you for same/lesser resources. Again you have nothing to fear. In either case they aren't getting the same rewards as you.
I'm not sure what you are upset about. Matchmaking, I get the concerns. Rewards, not so much - they aren't getting the same rewards as you (not if they are using it). I don't know why you think cavs should not have r3s, 7 stars will come in next few months. The year end banquet event will have 7 star shards, maybe in the crystals, definitely in the rank rewards. Same time next year are you going to complain about cavs with 7 stars?
Except matchmaking is directly related to rewards?🤔 You can't separate one from the other
Yeah I'm pretty sure no one was able to progress before BGs... All BGs does is speed up the process of acquiring champs and ranking it up, it doesnt mean they progress... There is a reason why you see so many Cavs with multiple r3s, on top of that complaining about being matched against stronger rosters when they should be TB... and they even have the nerve to say "Oh I am Cav why am i facing TBs!!" and maybe is that the roster doesnt fit the progression...
If they aren't using BG resources to progress, then they aren't using the rewards. You have nothing to fear. If they are using BG rewards to buy resources to progress, then they pay more than you for same/lesser resources. Again you have nothing to fear. In either case they aren't getting the same rewards as you.
This is false, and there are many arguments for why this is false, but one extreme edge case argument goes like this: a UC can use BG trophies to buy enough rewards to become Cav, then TB. A Paragon can do no analogous thing.
Rewards in this game are ultimately about progress: progression tier progress and roster progress. A UC player can increase the strength of their roster by a substantial amount with BG rewards, because they are receiving rewards that are massively valuable relative to their current strength. Paragons cannot do that, because the rewards available to them do not open the door to orders of magnitude higher strength.
Reward value is relative. A 6* crystal is not worth the same thing to a UC as to a Cav as to a Paragon. The equivalent to buying a 6* crystal for a UC doesn't even exist in the game for a Paragon player, much less is acquirable.
UCs and Cavs are not paying more for lesser rewards. They are paying the same amount for relatively comparable beneficial rewards. And "relatively beneficial" is all that matters when it comes to progressional rewards, because the value of progressional rewards is in their ability to progress the player. Rewards that progress lower tier players a lot do nothing for higher tier players. So you can't just say they are buying smaller stuff so it doesn't matter. What matters is the impact those rewards have.
If you want to skew the facts that rewards aren't the same then you also have to accept that the lesser rewards for lower players are worth more to them then Paragons, which evens it all out.
Yeah I'm pretty sure no one was able to progress before BGs... All BGs does is speed up the process of acquiring champs and ranking it up, it doesnt mean they progress... There is a reason why you see so many Cavs with multiple r3s, on top of that complaining about being matched against stronger rosters when they should be TB... and they even have the nerve to say "Oh I am Cav why am i facing TBs!!" and maybe is that the roster doesnt fit the progression...
If they aren't using BG resources to progress, then they aren't using the rewards. You have nothing to fear. If they are using BG rewards to buy resources to progress, then they pay more than you for same/lesser resources. Again you have nothing to fear. In either case they aren't getting the same rewards as you.
This is false, and there are many arguments for why this is false, but one extreme edge case argument goes like this: a UC can use BG trophies to buy enough rewards to become Cav, then TB. A Paragon can do no analogous thing.
Rewards in this game are ultimately about progress: progression tier progress and roster progress. A UC player can increase the strength of their roster by a substantial amount with BG rewards, because they are receiving rewards that are massively valuable relative to their current strength. Paragons cannot do that, because the rewards available to them do not open the door to orders of magnitude higher strength.
Reward value is relative. A 6* crystal is not worth the same thing to a UC as to a Cav as to a Paragon. The equivalent to buying a 6* crystal for a UC doesn't even exist in the game for a Paragon player, much less is acquirable.
UCs and Cavs are not paying more for lesser rewards. They are paying the same amount for relatively comparable beneficial rewards. And "relatively beneficial" is all that matters when it comes to progressional rewards, because the value of progressional rewards is in their ability to progress the player. Rewards that progress lower tier players a lot do nothing for higher tier players. So you can't just say they are buying smaller stuff so it doesn't matter. What matters is the impact those rewards have.
If you want to skew the facts that rewards aren't the same then you also have to accept that the lesser rewards for lower players are worth more to them then Paragons, which evens it all out.
Exactly, I was unable to express it clearly, probably cause I was just argueing other than trying to make sense; but DNA is completely right. Lets put in value of trophies how much it would cost a CAV to get an R3 and how much it cost a developed Paragon get their next R4 for the SAME currency...
Yeah I'm pretty sure no one was able to progress before BGs... All BGs does is speed up the process of acquiring champs and ranking it up, it doesnt mean they progress... There is a reason why you see so many Cavs with multiple r3s, on top of that complaining about being matched against stronger rosters when they should be TB... and they even have the nerve to say "Oh I am Cav why am i facing TBs!!" and maybe is that the roster doesnt fit the progression...
If they aren't using BG resources to progress, then they aren't using the rewards. You have nothing to fear. If they are using BG rewards to buy resources to progress, then they pay more than you for same/lesser resources. Again you have nothing to fear. In either case they aren't getting the same rewards as you.
This is false, and there are many arguments for why this is false, but one extreme edge case argument goes like this: a UC can use BG trophies to buy enough rewards to become Cav, then TB. A Paragon can do no analogous thing.
Rewards in this game are ultimately about progress: progression tier progress and roster progress. A UC player can increase the strength of their roster by a substantial amount with BG rewards, because they are receiving rewards that are massively valuable relative to their current strength. Paragons cannot do that, because the rewards available to them do not open the door to orders of magnitude higher strength.
Reward value is relative. A 6* crystal is not worth the same thing to a UC as to a Cav as to a Paragon. The equivalent to buying a 6* crystal for a UC doesn't even exist in the game for a Paragon player, much less is acquirable.
UCs and Cavs are not paying more for lesser rewards. They are paying the same amount for relatively comparable beneficial rewards. And "relatively beneficial" is all that matters when it comes to progressional rewards, because the value of progressional rewards is in their ability to progress the player. Rewards that progress lower tier players a lot do nothing for higher tier players. So you can't just say they are buying smaller stuff so it doesn't matter. What matters is the impact those rewards have.
If you want to skew the facts that rewards aren't the same then you also have to accept that the lesser rewards for lower players are worth more to them then Paragons, which evens it all out.
Exactly, I was unable to express it clearly, probably cause I was just argueing other than trying to make sense; but DNA is completely right. Lets put in value of trophies how much it would cost a CAV to get an R3 and how much it cost a developed Paragon get their next R4 for the SAME currency...
There's a reason for that. Progress is supposed to be slower the higher you go up. If not, the Top would go up faster and faster, and no one would ever catch up, because progress wasn't accelerated earlier on. I'm not sure where people got the idea that the higher you go up, the faster you should progress, but a system like that doesn't work.
Yeah I'm pretty sure no one was able to progress before BGs... All BGs does is speed up the process of acquiring champs and ranking it up, it doesnt mean they progress... There is a reason why you see so many Cavs with multiple r3s, on top of that complaining about being matched against stronger rosters when they should be TB... and they even have the nerve to say "Oh I am Cav why am i facing TBs!!" and maybe is that the roster doesnt fit the progression...
If they aren't using BG resources to progress, then they aren't using the rewards. You have nothing to fear. If they are using BG rewards to buy resources to progress, then they pay more than you for same/lesser resources. Again you have nothing to fear. In either case they aren't getting the same rewards as you.
This is false, and there are many arguments for why this is false, but one extreme edge case argument goes like this: a UC can use BG trophies to buy enough rewards to become Cav, then TB. A Paragon can do no analogous thing.
Rewards in this game are ultimately about progress: progression tier progress and roster progress. A UC player can increase the strength of their roster by a substantial amount with BG rewards, because they are receiving rewards that are massively valuable relative to their current strength. Paragons cannot do that, because the rewards available to them do not open the door to orders of magnitude higher strength.
Reward value is relative. A 6* crystal is not worth the same thing to a UC as to a Cav as to a Paragon. The equivalent to buying a 6* crystal for a UC doesn't even exist in the game for a Paragon player, much less is acquirable.
UCs and Cavs are not paying more for lesser rewards. They are paying the same amount for relatively comparable beneficial rewards. And "relatively beneficial" is all that matters when it comes to progressional rewards, because the value of progressional rewards is in their ability to progress the player. Rewards that progress lower tier players a lot do nothing for higher tier players. So you can't just say they are buying smaller stuff so it doesn't matter. What matters is the impact those rewards have.
Relatively is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. To take that particular example, the BG store does not allow UC players to buy 6 stars at all. Within the BG set up, there is no equivalent purchase of a 6-star to UC since that trade does not exit at all. Paragons are not at a disadvantage there.
My limited point was this - the rewards are not absolutely same. They may be relatively same, which seems fair given that all accounts are playing in the relatively same competition. If the expectation is that UCs need to beat Paragons to progress in BG, shouldn't they also get access to the Paragon store? Which they don't now. To make an equivalent sport analogy, if a junior player manages to win the final of Wimbledon by beating the pros, they wouldn't get handed the junior trophy. I realize people equate trophies to money as a real life parallel - but unlike real life money, the trophies don't provide access to same resources to all levels. 2 6 stars may be more valuable to a Cav than 5 6 stars to a Paragon, but if the expectation is that the Cav should beat the Paragon then they should also get the same 5 6 stars. When you walk into a Burger King, they don't determine the price of the burger based on how hungry you are or your job title.
I'm not a fan of the matchmaking. But you cannot have it both ways - that matchmaking should be random and rewards should be tailored to progression levels. Currently matchmaking isn't random, but rewards are equivalently adjusted. Whether it is perfectly equivalent, I don't know but directionally it seems fair.
I feel that was just a design decision to award the same number of tokens and then gate the store than run a check for the player's level every time they progress and vary the number of trophies distributed.
Rest of it is just evolution of the game economy. Today there are no Paragons in the game with 7 stars, in a year (or two) there will be conquerors with 7-stars. To that point, there were no Paragons at the same time last year. There was no BG. Some time ago there were no six stars. Not a week goes by without someone mentioning that they beat the collector with 3 stars or GM with 5r2 or something like that. As the game adds more levels on the top (7-stars, Paragons etc.), it is inevitable that it would be easier to progress at the lower and mid-tiers. You cannot expect progression paths to be same as the game changes.
I've been doing the win 2 lose 2 win 2 lose 2 dance for a week and I can tell you it's definitely affecting my mental health and love for this game mode....
The solo event doesn’t adequately reward participation or use of marks. 15,000 over 4 weeks if you max out is…not helpful in today’s economy. Rank rewards only add another 10 and some stones. Two-day rewards aren’t huge but add up eventually I guess.
I've been doing the win 2 lose 2 win 2 lose 2 dance for a week and I can tell you it's definitely affecting my mental health and love for this game mode....
I can’t understand why you are doing the mistake and keep playing. If you can’t achieve a minimum of 60% win ratio, don’t bother with BGs, it’s pure resources, time and psychical drain. I’ve limited my participation to daily objectives, and I gave up with over 60% win ratio, because progress was very slow compared to resources/time invested, and of course the focus and effort needed. Facing consistently top tier players, under the current VT format, ain’t fun at all to do at daily basis. I spent my time instead in arena, farming solo events and units, for upcoming spring and 4th July offers. Best MCOC decision I’ve ever made 👍
I've been doing the win 2 lose 2 win 2 lose 2 dance for a week and I can tell you it's definitely affecting my mental health and love for this game mode....
I can’t understand why you are doing the mistake and keep playing. If you can’t achieve a minimum of 60% win ratio, don’t bother with BGs, it’s pure resources, time and psychical drain. I’ve limited my participation to daily objectives, and I gave up with over 60% win ratio, because progress was very slow compared to resources/time invested, and of course the focus and effort needed. Facing consistently top tier players, under the current VT format, ain’t fun at all to do at daily basis. I spent my time instead in arena, farming solo events and units, for upcoming spring and 4th July offers. Best MCOC decision I’ve ever made 👍
I'm so close to the end of the VT track I just want to almost justify all the wasted time and energy put into this stupid rat race for this season. My approach to BGs next season will definitely be WAY more relaxed: Only taking on matches when the objectives reset, and not using energy for matches only elders marks as I get them. You're right in that I'd be way farther ahead in the game as a whole had I invested all this time into Arena for battlechips and units. Trying to enjoy the new stuff they're putting out, but it's not enjoyable.
Comments
The reason why i name Cavs so much is because there is a key fight to overpass and that is not done with Champs... Its a rite of passage.. the transition from Cav to TB is a lot harder than TB to Paragon.
And you really think that no one is gonna sit?.. Cause as soon as a 7*s become a thing everyone sits on previous currency cause the meta changed...
I didnt even know you were TB so if u felt i threw a jab at u, it wasn't my intention.
Cav to TB is a rite of passage, takes beating the Grandmaster which can be done with ANY CHAMP, the only roadblock is farming the units and resources to get thru it if you are an avg player.
So yeah I do not believe a player who decides not to take that rite of passage should have access to the same rewards a player who did...
There is a limit to what you can spend, there's a limit to what you can hold, and sooner or later they're either going to use them to progress, or wait until the Store pays more. Either way it's not really a major concern. I don't see this as being a large issue.
It's a new game mode, with additional Resources. It's going to contribute to progress no matter where someone is at.
I don't have more thoughts to share on this, if you do, I suggest you start a different thread as this is not so much about BG anymore.
The salary (or rewards for @Coppin ) are the output of your work. Something somehow intangible you can use to do something.
What you want to / can use your salary on is the outcome. Buy a house, a car or a fruit basket.
My point is that the outcome differs vastly based on progression. And no one plays for the output if there’s no outcome associated with it. Hence rewards even though are the same currency, have different outcomes.
I repeat, its ridiculous TB&Paragon play for the same 30k trophies throughout VT
If TB and Paragon play for the same trophies is ridiculous, then UC and Paragons playing for the same trophies is beyond ridiculous, it's just mind blowing 🤯
This means while UC players can't buy r4 mats from the store with their trophies like Paragons, they buy mats that have similar value for their accounts as the value of the mats that Paragons get to their accounts.
Also let's don't forget the other rewards VT tiers offer, relics and elder marks which are exactly the same for everyone no matter of titles.
Yet people choose to ignore those FACTS, because they are personally profiting from this situation.
The point was that relative value depreciates with roster progress, and progressional stores reflect this, so comparing the costs between different progression stores can’t be used to prove one tier gets less value for their currency. That is, on at least the large statistical scale, factored into the stores costs by design. Which seems to be a point you’re agreeing to here, but that undermines the notion that lower progress players get less value from spending the same number of tokens.
The argument is that they can hoard the trophies, is immaterial. If those accounts can get to the highest progression levels without using BG resources, then more power to them. They are taking a harder path of committing time to a game mode without utilizing rewards and handicapping themselves by going through rest of the game at a lower strength than they could be at. They are also sacrificing time by halting their progression to get the rewards they then don't want to use, even with BG rewards it hardly makes sense to not complete Act 6 or 7 for months to collect 30k trophies, while giving up the other perks of higher titles. Eventually the game economy moves on, what is expensive today becomes more easily available and the value of those trophies diminish with time. Staying UC or Cav when one can get to TB/Paragon for say 6 months is a bad idea, for a competitive player. At the same time, I cannot imagine anyone but a competitive player bothering to even consider the options. The intersection of players gaming the BG rewards system with weaker teams (without mods) and competitive players is likely to be small. People who hoard probably don't care enough about progression, people who are seeking to progress are not getting the same rewards.
Eventually, the BG format requires many people to play. You need to find a match for everyone looking to play and in a short period. There are enough posts here explaining that. The rewards are high because that's the level at which the required number of people will try to get them.
All BGs does is speed up the process of acquiring champs and ranking it up, it doesnt mean they progress... There is a reason why you see so many Cavs with multiple r3s, on top of that complaining about being matched against stronger rosters when they should be TB... and they even have the nerve to say "Oh I am Cav why am i facing TBs!!" and maybe is that the roster doesnt fit the progression...
I think we agree on the principles, I think also there’s some nuances when it comes to relative value of items, but that’s to be expected since people play at different pace for different reasons.
I'm not sure what you are upset about. Matchmaking, I get the concerns. Rewards, not so much - they aren't getting the same rewards as you (not if they are using it). I don't know why you think cavs should not have r3s, 7 stars will come in next few months. The year end banquet event will have 7 star shards, maybe in the crystals, definitely in the rank rewards. Same time next year are you going to complain about cavs with 7 stars?
Rewards in this game are ultimately about progress: progression tier progress and roster progress. A UC player can increase the strength of their roster by a substantial amount with BG rewards, because they are receiving rewards that are massively valuable relative to their current strength. Paragons cannot do that, because the rewards available to them do not open the door to orders of magnitude higher strength.
Reward value is relative. A 6* crystal is not worth the same thing to a UC as to a Cav as to a Paragon. The equivalent to buying a 6* crystal for a UC doesn't even exist in the game for a Paragon player, much less is acquirable.
UCs and Cavs are not paying more for lesser rewards. They are paying the same amount for relatively comparable beneficial rewards. And "relatively beneficial" is all that matters when it comes to progressional rewards, because the value of progressional rewards is in their ability to progress the player. Rewards that progress lower tier players a lot do nothing for higher tier players. So you can't just say they are buying smaller stuff so it doesn't matter. What matters is the impact those rewards have.
If you want to skew the facts that rewards aren't the same then you also have to accept that the lesser rewards for lower players are worth more to them then Paragons, which evens it all out.
I'm not sure where people got the idea that the higher you go up, the faster you should progress, but a system like that doesn't work.
My limited point was this - the rewards are not absolutely same. They may be relatively same, which seems fair given that all accounts are playing in the relatively same competition. If the expectation is that UCs need to beat Paragons to progress in BG, shouldn't they also get access to the Paragon store? Which they don't now. To make an equivalent sport analogy, if a junior player manages to win the final of Wimbledon by beating the pros, they wouldn't get handed the junior trophy. I realize people equate trophies to money as a real life parallel - but unlike real life money, the trophies don't provide access to same resources to all levels. 2 6 stars may be more valuable to a Cav than 5 6 stars to a Paragon, but if the expectation is that the Cav should beat the Paragon then they should also get the same 5 6 stars. When you walk into a Burger King, they don't determine the price of the burger based on how hungry you are or your job title.
I'm not a fan of the matchmaking. But you cannot have it both ways - that matchmaking should be random and rewards should be tailored to progression levels. Currently matchmaking isn't random, but rewards are equivalently adjusted. Whether it is perfectly equivalent, I don't know but directionally it seems fair.
I feel that was just a design decision to award the same number of tokens and then gate the store than run a check for the player's level every time they progress and vary the number of trophies distributed.
Rest of it is just evolution of the game economy. Today there are no Paragons in the game with 7 stars, in a year (or two) there will be conquerors with 7-stars. To that point, there were no Paragons at the same time last year. There was no BG. Some time ago there were no six stars. Not a week goes by without someone mentioning that they beat the collector with 3 stars or GM with 5r2 or something like that. As the game adds more levels on the top (7-stars, Paragons etc.), it is inevitable that it would be easier to progress at the lower and mid-tiers. You cannot expect progression paths to be same as the game changes.
Mostly I wish it wasn’t zero-sum.
If you can’t achieve a minimum of 60% win ratio, don’t bother with BGs, it’s pure resources, time and psychical drain.
I’ve limited my participation to daily objectives, and I gave up with over 60% win ratio, because progress was very slow compared to resources/time invested, and of course the focus and effort needed.
Facing consistently top tier players, under the current VT format, ain’t fun at all to do at daily basis.
I spent my time instead in arena, farming solo events and units, for upcoming spring and 4th July offers.
Best MCOC decision I’ve ever made 👍
You're right in that I'd be way farther ahead in the game as a whole had I invested all this time into Arena for battlechips and units.
Trying to enjoy the new stuff they're putting out, but it's not enjoyable.