Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

SHIELD4AGENT

I don't mind these changes at all as I don't farm revives regularly, but this move from Kabam just goes to show how much they only care about the players' spending $$$.
They want you to spend more, that's it.
Another let down.
Pro players stuff in the game either gets tuned down or nerfed, while issues affecting the players negatively are pushed under the rug.
I can't believe this company.

BuggyDClown

I warned about it. But people came to my throat when i said about saying that kabam knows it and bla bla bla bla.
It was not a problem that kabam knew it but problem was dumb people coming and posting about in forums every day after kabam release difficult content. Same those so called love streams for it.
So it was natural. People were flexing too hard about it again and again. And Kabam had to put them to place. Especially when 8.2 might get released in month or 2. I know many people will still disagree but this is the truth. If something good happens in MCOC, just enjoy it no need to make a poster about it and try to show off and piss off the game team
Peace

DNA3000

Zuko_ILC said:

DNA3000 said:

AustinU823 said:

DNA3000 said:

I actually haven't done the permanent EoP paths yet, so I will take that as an interesting challenge.

I’m genuinely curious how many units you or anyone would be required to spend to get through that going forward. Lagacy spent 2K units even in addition to mass revive farming and he’s one of the best players in the game.

I'm not anywhere in Lagacy's class, so I'm pretty sure it is going to be a whole lot more than 2k. I was going to farm it out, just like everyone else, but I'm probably not going to make a mad dash for it while the farms are still here. That's not how I roll with content in general.

So you don't play in high tier alliance and haven't completed difficult content?

I decided to bail out of the alliance rat race when my alliance was in tier 5 and top 300 in AQ. I don't miss it.

The last time I failed to complete temporary challenge content was the Maze. If it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty. Of the permanent challenge content, I haven't done Lab or Abyss (not my cup of tea) and while I did the Gauntlet once, I haven't been anxious to do it two more times. I reached the top milestones for both SoP and EoP when they first came out. I haven't done the last permanent EoP objectives yet.

Manup456

The game is in bad shape with input issues, cheaters and the way the AI is performing and this is what they are worried about? Money and more money smh

DaJiveTurkey

What scum. How could you do this when the game is buggy as hell and they refuse to focus on fixing it. They're probably going to lose more players and thereby money rather than get people to spend more.

Lestat2499

Seems it continues to be the same thing.

GroundedWisdom

Lpoo said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

GinjabredMonsta said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.

I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?

What?

What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.

Bro is defending the multi million dollar company that is consistently making anti-player moves, as a player himself ☠️

Okay, we need to stop this anti-player narrative. No game in existence makes decisions to spite Players. People can agree or disagree with decisions, but no one is out to get people.

Glads

While I spent about 20 bucks a month nothing huge, this decision will loose the majority of f2p crowd and probably folks like me.
For the game, this will essentially mean the end of wars and quests battle grounds as players would be able in improve their rosters without banking on rewards.
This will have far greater consequences than just story quest and Everest content mark my words

Pikolu

BigPoppaCBONE said:

Pikolu said:

Spider_Chris said:

How is that fair?

It isn't fair. The decision sucks and imo they should have gotten rid of it in like May so there would be plenty of time. I know with 12.0 they gave us months notice; however just like 12.0 it is a change that needs to happen for the health of the game. It isn't fair that people got to destroy content with Scarlet Witch and Thor and we only have wimpy champions like herc now in comparison (yes herc is a wimp compared to pre 12.0 Scarlet witch and Thor).

Hopefully this decision will mean we see more balanced fights in everest content and not fights where the only way to win is spam herc with revives.

Yeah, that's totally what'll happen.

🤣 you're not wrong, I know I already said it once already, but I'm ready for more dimensional being challenge against blade matchups. I wouldn't be surprised if we had a zemo who puts an armor break on himself every 4 seconds. Good luck dealing with the root all the time 🤣

NEXTON

GroundedWisdom said:

Lpoo said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

GinjabredMonsta said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.

I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?

What?

What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.

Bro is defending the multi million dollar company that is consistently making anti-player moves, as a player himself ☠️

Okay, we need to stop this anti-player narrative. No game in existence makes decisions to spite Players. People can agree or disagree with decisions, but no one is out to get people.

Yeah, they’re just out to get our money.

Manup456

You also have plenty of companies who know keeping happy customers is the best practice for repeat business. All these issues the game has and the way these things are being handled is being done poorly and people have the right to be upset.

Greekhit

GroundedWisdom said:

Lpoo said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

GinjabredMonsta said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.

I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?

What?

What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.

Bro is defending the multi million dollar company that is consistently making anti-player moves, as a player himself ☠️

Okay, we need to stop this anti-player narrative. No game in existence makes decisions to spite Players. People can agree or disagree with decisions, but no one is out to get people.

“No game in existence makes decisions to spite Players”:

🤔

cur53d

Can I trade in all my relic trash for revives?

Cyporg

This is a horrible decision kabam. This makes me want to play and spend on your game way less.

Wiredawg1

Jefechuta said:

nOux said:

Jefechuta said:

nOux said:

Jefechuta said:

nOux said:

Jefechuta said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

Jefechuta said:

I dont know if anyone already stated this but:


I fairly think this is one of the best decissions they could make, content is done too easily by people that are not even skilled enough to do it just spamming revives, so this encourages people to try to learn how to really play the game properly, not only this but makes the challenging things challenging, when people is able to do this content the first day it goes out just spamming 60 revives that means that something must be done, If anyone thinks that 2 revives PER DAY is not enough, that only shows how bad people became. Getting revives became way easier than before, so I think is fair to nerf the amount we can get by farming them.

The main problem I see here, is that they done this in the worst moment possible, since people need more revives because everything in the game is bugged, so they should have waited a little bit more to make this changes until they fixed at least half of the bugs they have currently in game.

And to be fair with Kabam, this is not a charity, this is a company, we already get almost everything free, I dont think its that bad to have to play more Arenas to get more revives for the hard content, or spending to get them.

I think its just a bad timing, but a really good decission, I expect a lot of disagrees but sorry fams, I dont think this is about opinions, since I repeat, you dont need more than 2 revives a day, or you shouldnt need them, If you need them then that means you are not playing properly, so you should try to change it, you dont wanna try to improve your skills? Then I think it is fair to pay for the revives then, and I say this being a F2P player.

Farming disagrees? How will that help your progression?

You should progress playing better, making your roster bigger, and getting resources playing if you dont want to spend money, but being able to farm the amount of revives you want because the challenges are too challenging for you is just nonsense.

If im not able to do X content, I shouldnt just spam revives, I should see why and fix it, If its because im not good enough, I improve my skills, if its because I dont have certain champions, I try to farm shards to look for them or grind arena to get those.

And as I said, I dont think they should make this change NOW, since the game is completely bugged, but it is not a bad change itself.

Hey buddy, maybe stop talking nonsense about getting better when content like Carina with 4* Starlord exists? Hows that “get better” works out for you in that content?

Yeah people only spends revives on Carina's Challenges, and spend only the necessary ones right?

Dude, people farm hundreds of revives just to dont care about playing worse, the thing on Carina's Challenge is to do it with the less amount of revives trying to play the best possible.

And still, I dont know how the hell people are this annoyed when Kabam still gives you AT LEAST, 2 revives a day, fam, most of the games give much less resources of this kind and try to make you pay most of the times for them.

I think Kabam made people to get used to easy things, and now that they say "Hey, we were too generous, so we are going to stop" people gets mad, feels like kids when they dont get the PS5 for Xmas and they get clothes instead.


We are still getting revives for free, if you need more than 2 per day to clear Carina's Challenges, then you shouldnt be trying Carina's Challenges just yet, as easy as that.

Bro i dont want to insult you, but u talking about getting better at the game or talking about EoP or Carinas etc. Have u done at least one of the everest content in the game that you are preaching about getting better to other players? “ 2 revives a day is enough for those kind of contents “
The irony is pretty hilarious when i already know the answer…

Dude, Im just gonna let this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cfGwoDfQmU

23 Revives needed

"Yeah people need a lot of revives for do the content! Even the best ones!"

You get 28 for sure in 2 weeks, its that not enough? It is, If you need more then you have Daily Crystals and you can farm units on arenas to buy them, if you dont wanna farm then spend money.


This is a gaming company, not a gaming charity.

My point is you are nowhere close of preaching to other players how they need to get better or even talk about everest content. I have done Carina in first week that came out by spending countless hours of grinding revives. Now with this new change all players who haven’t done it before nerf it will take them at least 5-6 months of grinding revives. This only affects players who are grinding and not whaling, whales will complete after nerf in first week any other upcoming everest content without no issues. I dont think i have to explain it further. So how does this good for the game and not good for Kabam in milking whales?

Now fun video u posted, wanna jump in EoP and give us your own fight video? We gonna learn how we need to get better at the game all together, with some taste of irony.

Fam, first of all, beucase it is just ridiculous and you are just showing me the lack of comprehension you have about this at least, you dont have to be Mr. Olympia to say that you have to be really strong to do bench press with 200kg, it is a statement that you can do without being able to do it, thats the first point.

Second point, are you in the top best Alliances? Almost all of yours BG champs are R4s? Do you have everything completed at 100%? You did every Carina's Challenge? Then you should be doing each new Everest content that gets released, because the Everest content, as its own name indicates, its the hardest content that the best players should be able to do, if you are not one of them, obviously you will have to grind a lot more to do the same content that the best players are doing, because that means that you are not really prepared to do it, and thats it, that not an opinion, thats what it is.

In my example, my account is pretty decent, 2015 account at Paragon with most of the content done WITHOUT spending nor farming revives, except some content that is quite hard to do, mainly if you dont have the best champions to do it, so therefore you have to use revives, and what I did? I waited to either have enough revives or be able to do it without them or at least with only a tiny amount, and sadly I dont have Hercules, so Im waiting to get him to do EoP, because Im not going to use 100 revives if I can use 20, if you want to do it that way, thats because you want to do content you are not prepared for, so you will need more resources, Im not in need of anything right now so I dont have the urge to do EoP, and I shouldnt be in urge since its the last content you should do.

Probably when Kabam fixes the bugs you will be able to do EoP on 15 revives aprox, maybe 20. If you want to do it with 5 times that amount it is because you want to do it that way.

You want to do Everest content with an account that has 5 R4s- 10 R4s? Sorry, you are not prepared, so you will have to use more resources than players that are prepared.

You want to do 2 Carinas Objectives in one run? Obviously you are going to need a lot more revives because your team is not efficient enough, and thats not because you dont have enough revive farming, thats because you want to do it that way.

And Im not gonna reply more to you because this is not about opinions.

This is a GOOD change in the WORST moment. My advice to Kabam is to wait for the bugs to be fixed so players dont use more revives than they should.

So has you haven’t done the content. Your opinion to me is invaild. And don’t be basing it off what others do and what YouTubers do. Till you have actually done the content don’t talk about what it takes to do it

Errang

Between the broken inputs and the AI’s RNG, farming revives took some of the edge off…

And I doubt anyone farming revives would be spending money for them; they would either wait longer to build up units, ignore the content, or the game altogether.

Joker1976

Their “Everest” content has always seemed a bit stupid to me. I don’t know how burning through hundreds of revives and units to clear content ( or quitting a incursion fight 30 times to stop the opponent’s regeneration ) is considered “skill” lol.
…seems kinda silly to me

GroundedWisdom

Greekhit said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Lpoo said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

GinjabredMonsta said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.

I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?

What?

What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.

Bro is defending the multi million dollar company that is consistently making anti-player moves, as a player himself ☠️

Okay, we need to stop this anti-player narrative. No game in existence makes decisions to spite Players. People can agree or disagree with decisions, but no one is out to get people.

“No game in existence makes decisions to spite Players”:

🤔

I'm sorry, does that metric display intentions?

BigBlueOx

GroundedWisdom said:

Lpoo said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

GinjabredMonsta said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.

I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?

What?

What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.

Bro is defending the multi million dollar company that is consistently making anti-player moves, as a player himself ☠️

Okay, we need to stop this anti-player narrative. No game in existence makes decisions to spite Players. People can agree or disagree with decisions, but no one is out to get people.

Why do YOU get to decide what narratives are ok in this discussion? That just seems a bit presumptuous doesn’t it?

They knew this was unpopular, they are gas lighting us by calling it a compromise when it’s not. It’s fair for people to feel like this is an anti-player move, because something is being taken from the player base and what is being offered in return is new player level support and nothing in this compromise offers anything in return to high level players.

DNA3000

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:

What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.

How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?

This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.

I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.

JoeVodka

I mean farming revives takes away from all other aspects of the game, if you devote time to farming theme you are subtracting time from arena, bg’s, clearing content etc. There’s a give and take balance there.

That two week timer on the stash makes it even more imperative to stack revives and hit the content you need in a small work/life balance window is already stressful enough.

Like “ok honey can you take the kids today so I can clear some hard video game content.” But don’t worry I didn’t spend $300 like I did last time. That made our marriage stressful by doing that behind your back. This time I found a way to farm revives for two weeks instead; so it looks we can get the kids some new clothes after all!

Farming also avoids certain bad things like people buying “discount units” or having other people complete content for them for a fee of some sort.

That’s what happens when you make the ai so fast that it essentially sucks units like a vacuum leaving people thinking it was just a dropped input and not an over-clocked ai defender. People might pay to win, cheat or they might just walk away.

Just saying there are healthy reasons not to shut down the farm.

SirGamesBond

I like it... Very nice. Good job, pat on the back.

Can you also:
Reduce energy from 70 to 40
Reduce units from 15 to 5 in arena milestones.
Increase atleast 5 paths in all quests of EQ.
Reduce inventory cap of 15 revives to 5 to bring it along with team revives cap.
Increase Relics items on unit store.


I never wanted to see modders getting perma banned, they are the pinnacle of skills.
I really like how all nubs have legends doing there incursion run with the cheaters.
Can you remove banning of cheaters who are using third party apps to support their fellow players.

People who are buying units on regular basis, you guys are the best!! Cheers to you guys.
Let's all Enable the Kabam Gods!!

Vydra

You know, with all these vehement disagreements even amongst players - I seriously worry about the day when Forum Guardians are introduced.

This thread is by far one of the most scandalous issues to have been talked about and I sincerely hope whoever our Guardians are use that power in the most unbiased ways. And hopefully under very guided attention from actual forum mods

GinjabredMonsta

Vydra said:

You know, with all these vehement disagreements even amongst players - I seriously worry about the day when Forum Guardians are introduced.

This thread is by far one of the most scandalous issues to have been talked about and I sincerely hope whoever our Guardians are use that power in the most unbiased ways. And hopefully under very guided attention from actual forum mods

There’s already a couple guardians in this thread…like me

Bigfoot33

One REAL compromise could be increasing revive drop rate of those 4hr crystals. Right now, it seems like they're 7%, bump that up to 30%. Could be PART of the compromise.

Over all, your compromise is trash. I'm among those that WILL walk away from this abusive marriage if you go through with this.

Wiredawg1

Vydra said:

You know, with all these vehement disagreements even amongst players - I seriously worry about the day when Forum Guardians are introduced.

This thread is by far one of the most scandalous issues to have been talked about and I sincerely hope whoever our Guardians are use that power in the most unbiased ways. And hopefully under very guided attention from actual forum mods

There already a few kabam employees on the thread outside of jax. It’s not hard to spot a couple. Just read what they say. Specially when they use the terms like we and saying stuff that only kabam employees would. They not hard to spot at all

GroundedWisdom

BigBlueOx said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Lpoo said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

GinjabredMonsta said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.

I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?

What?

What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.

Bro is defending the multi million dollar company that is consistently making anti-player moves, as a player himself ☠️

Okay, we need to stop this anti-player narrative. No game in existence makes decisions to spite Players. People can agree or disagree with decisions, but no one is out to get people.

Why do YOU get to decide what narratives are ok in this discussion? That just seems a bit presumptuous doesn’t it?

They knew this was unpopular, they are gas lighting us by calling it a compromise when it’s not. It’s fair for people to feel like this is an anti-player move, because something is being taken from the player base and what is being offered in return is new player level support and nothing in this compromise offers anything in return to high level players.

I don't decide anything. If people are going to state conspiracy, I'm going to call it what it is.
Judge Judy, although abrasive, says "If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.". You don't put thousands upon thousands of hours into a job to provide a product for people just to spite them. I'd bet pigs could fly before I bet on that one.
Part of designing a game, nay being an adult, involves making decisions from time to time that are uncomfortable but necessary. Which means it's not "anti-player" just because it's not what people want.
If something is necessary for the long-term health of the game, then that supercedes preference. It's easy for Players to say it only benefits them when they're taking full advantage of something. It's not an indication that it's for the best overall.
People become accustomed to something over time. When you're talking about an easy street to Revs, readily available for the hardest content, then that's not as helpful as it looks on paper. It means things are much less challenging than they need to be. Over time, that not only affects the expectations Players have, it also leaves them at a loss for future content they can design with the intentions they have. No, not "to milk Players", to design long-lasting content that provides adequate challenge.
People keep citing 12.0, but what they don't acknowledge is even that was a compromise. Not all changes were reverted. There's a reason for that. The game had to change. The last thing a Dev wants is a situation where they're stuck in the corner for the content they can create. Nowhere to go means no game, literally.
I have no idea what they're planning on adjusting. All I know is it's not gas lighting. It's finding out how much room they have to accommodate what people want and still do what they have to do.

AustinU823

I’ll say it again just for the sake of emphasis but a real compromise to the problem of content being blown through with enough revives is just to nerf Hercules. Most people don’t want Hercules nerfed but his existence is bad for the game design. You’re crunching the numbers and you’re seeing that it should be about this difficult if you’re using this champion, or much easier if you use Hercules. Most people are taking the Herc route, and by nature it’s inflating the difficulty of the content you’re designing because you don’t want to make it too easy.

For example, I did a couple of my EOP runs with my objective champions from the start. It was over ten times more difficult to get through the first four fights that way than it was for me to bring a 5* Hercules at the start and just turn my brain off instead. You had to make EOP that difficult, because of him.

You guys want to nerf him anyway, but you’re afraid of the backlash. But I honestly think the majority of the playerbase would rather you just get it over with and nerf him so that way you don’t need to design ridiculously difficult content that you pretty much have to revive farm just to get through with Hercules

GinjabredMonsta

Wiredawg1 said:

Vydra said:

You know, with all these vehement disagreements even amongst players - I seriously worry about the day when Forum Guardians are introduced.

This thread is by far one of the most scandalous issues to have been talked about and I sincerely hope whoever our Guardians are use that power in the most unbiased ways. And hopefully under very guided attention from actual forum mods

There already a few kabam employees on the thread outside of jax. It’s not hard to spot a couple. Just read what they say. Specially when they use the terms like we and saying stuff that only kabam employees would. They not hard to spot at all

Now that’s wrong. While there are people who may agree with this, that doesn’t make them an employee. They can have their differing opinions. While in the minority, and most of us potentially think are wrong, it is still their option. It doesn’t make them an employee or a shill.