Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

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Comments

  • GinjabredMonstaGinjabredMonsta Member, Guardian Posts: 6,482 Guardian

    I would love to see their revive farming numbers from the time they made this announcement to the time the update kicks in.

    It’s over 9000!
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★

    DNA3000 said:


    To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.

    Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
    He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
  • JefechutaJefechuta Member Posts: 1,212 ★★★★

    Jefechuta said:

    Kiptonade said:

    Never ceases to amaze me how many people engage with a forum account with almost 100k disagrees. It’s best left ignored!

    Statistically, around 80% of the population has average or bellow capacities/intelligence/IQ or whatever you wanna call it, so its senseless to state that fam, because its way more likely than most of the people are wrong than right, or they are more likely to be wrong than to be right.

    He can be wrong, but your statement is absurd, just remember most of the people back then thought the Earth was flat, or that everything rotated around the Earth, and they would punish you if you said otherwise.
    This is amazing. Literally everything you just said is factually incorrect.
    No it is not lol, if you wanna see the data, between 70% to 80% of people, more roundly to 80% is on average or below, look for it, so It if only 20% to 30% is more capable to have the right answers, that means that the 80% to 70% is not likely to have the right answers, that means they either would be wrong or they wouldnt be able to even answer.

    If you say I'm wrong then I assume you think Earth is flat.

    You can look for the data fam, depending on the source, it is between those % I stated before.

    So the fact that more people are agree into something it doesnt mean they are right about it, It happened with tons and tons of situations along the history of humanity, where tremendous groups of people would state something that was wrong but the quantity of people that are stating that is was wrong was lesser than the one stating it was right.

    And If you want to say that something is wrong, you have to prove it, I didnt say anything wrong here.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,403 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    DNA3000 said:


    To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.

    Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
    He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
    OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.
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  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★

    Stature said:

    DNA3000 said:


    To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.

    Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
    He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
    OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.
    Just an indicator of how overpowered the potential to farm is currently. If you can casually get 50+ revives in ~10 days (and at a rate of ~2 per full energy), then it is something one should expect to be adjusted. It's like a cheat code right now.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    Axew said:

    Stature said:

    Stature said:

    DNA3000 said:


    To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.

    Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
    He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
    OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.
    Just an indicator of how overpowered the potential to farm is currently. If you can casually get 50+ revives in ~10 days (and at a rate of ~2 per full energy), then it is something one should expect to be adjusted. It's like a cheat code right now.

    You still have to spend resources on energy refills, whether it be with units or saved up refills. It’s not like the revives are free. Slightly toning down the drop rate is fine, but Kabam is taking the nuclear option and nerfing them into the ground, then providing us with an apothecary quest that gives resources useful for a conqueror or below.
    They are when the Refills are free.
  • johnlaw3742johnlaw3742 Member Posts: 190 ★★
    I was one of those who spent units spamming revives doing 0.1% damage each time during my first run 😭 but then I got good (and also went back in with Prof X)
    GrampaDan said:


    Grandmaster and Gwenmaster, cannot be effectively damaged until prompts are completed and have triggered their wounded phase (at least God forbid we dont see anybody spamming revives to do 0.1% each round).


  • JJJmJJJJJJmJJJ Member Posts: 136
    Anyway increasing the reserve to "infinite" could be a solution, so one would have plenty of time to farm even with this new **** system....
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★
    edited March 2023
    Axew said:

    Stature said:

    Stature said:

    DNA3000 said:


    To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.

    Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
    He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
    OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.
    Just an indicator of how overpowered the potential to farm is currently. If you can casually get 50+ revives in ~10 days (and at a rate of ~2 per full energy), then it is something one should expect to be adjusted. It's like a cheat code right now.

    You still have to spend resources on energy refills, whether it be with units or saved up refills. It’s not like the revives are free. Slightly toning down the drop rate is fine, but Kabam is taking the nuclear option and nerfing them into the ground, then providing us with an apothecary quest that gives resources useful for a conqueror or below.
    You can get 50+ revives in 10 days without using any energy refills. Log on 3 times a day and run the quest using the free energy.

    In the end, you can get almost everything (champs/rank up materials) in the game for free. Up to you how soon you want it. If you need to get it sooner than everyone else, then you have to either save up units or spend on the game.

    You can not expect to consistently run content which is for conqueror or below and expect it to give you resources to tackle end game content. There was a situation that this was happening, one would expect that it would get adjusted at some point.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    Axew said:

    Axew said:

    Stature said:

    Stature said:

    DNA3000 said:


    To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.

    Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
    He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
    OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.
    Just an indicator of how overpowered the potential to farm is currently. If you can casually get 50+ revives in ~10 days (and at a rate of ~2 per full energy), then it is something one should expect to be adjusted. It's like a cheat code right now.

    You still have to spend resources on energy refills, whether it be with units or saved up refills. It’s not like the revives are free. Slightly toning down the drop rate is fine, but Kabam is taking the nuclear option and nerfing them into the ground, then providing us with an apothecary quest that gives resources useful for a conqueror or below.
    They are when the Refills are free.

    You still have to play the game to earn those free refills. Costs time rather than money, just like arena. Except arena isn’t fun, unlike other facets of the game.

    We've shown you don't actually have to play at all. Just check the game and click a few buttons.
  • MackeyMackey Member Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
    Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.

    So what you're saying is, it's perfectly fine for one to grind area and farm units (let's be fair that's why people grind arena) and spam revives with the units but it's not OK for people to spend the same amount of time farming revives from 3.2.6?

    You're going on like we hit 1 button to farm 1 revive in 3.2.6 when in reality it's not that fast. If we can't farm revives by ingame content then we shouldn't be allowed to farm the units in arena
    People actually invest time and energy into the Arena. They play the Fights to win the Units. They don't Auto-Play on repeat.
    So one doesn't invest time and energy into farming 3.2.6? Last I checked you have to allocate your time to it AND lose energy in order to do it. Fair trade off.

    Fair enough, you can't auto play arena but that's the only difference. So why not just remove the ability to auto play acts 1-3, the autoplay doesn't help the new players that are at level anyway as they'll just die, the only people the autopsy helps in this aspect are the bigger accounts that are 3 hits and KO
    Yes, and those Revives were included to help those newer Players, not to be taken advantage of by people doing higher content.
    As for time and energy, "Enter Auto Repeat" isn't the same as actually playing the game.
    This is a pretty silly argument because have the game open = playing the game. It doesn't matter what you're doing or not doing. From the business side of it, it doesn't matter what you're doing in the game. As long as the game is opened daily, it's a win for the company. That's why we get daily log in rewards. It's not for the benefit of the player, it's to give the player base a reason to log in every day.

    It's simple. Every decision is for the business. Daily log calendars create daily users. Not having farmable resources means spending units on those resources. If you're spending units on resources to get through content, you can't save units. If you can't save units, the only option is to buy the big deals and then spend those units on unit deals.
    Which is exactly what they want us to do .... spend more money
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
    Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.

    So what you're saying is, it's perfectly fine for one to grind area and farm units (let's be fair that's why people grind arena) and spam revives with the units but it's not OK for people to spend the same amount of time farming revives from 3.2.6?

    You're going on like we hit 1 button to farm 1 revive in 3.2.6 when in reality it's not that fast. If we can't farm revives by ingame content then we shouldn't be allowed to farm the units in arena
    People actually invest time and energy into the Arena. They play the Fights to win the Units. They don't Auto-Play on repeat.
    So one doesn't invest time and energy into farming 3.2.6? Last I checked you have to allocate your time to it AND lose energy in order to do it. Fair trade off.

    Fair enough, you can't auto play arena but that's the only difference. So why not just remove the ability to auto play acts 1-3, the autoplay doesn't help the new players that are at level anyway as they'll just die, the only people the autopsy helps in this aspect are the bigger accounts that are 3 hits and KO
    Yes, and those Revives were included to help those newer Players, not to be taken advantage of by people doing higher content.
    As for time and energy, "Enter Auto Repeat" isn't the same as actually playing the game.
    This is a pretty silly argument because have the game open = playing the game. It doesn't matter what you're doing or not doing. From the business side of it, it doesn't matter what you're doing in the game. As long as the game is opened daily, it's a win for the company. That's why we get daily log in rewards. It's not for the benefit of the player, it's to give the player base a reason to log in every day.

    It's simple. Every decision is for the business. Daily log calendars create daily users. Not having farmable resources means spending units on those resources. If you're spending units on resources to get through content, you can't save units. If you can't save units, the only option is to buy the big deals and then spend those units on unit deals.
    Which is exactly what they want us to do .... spend more money
    You don't have to spend money to save the Revs we get and go in with a number of Units. People want a Bounty quicker-picker-upper.
  • kikiFurieuxkikiFurieux Member Posts: 251 ★★★
    Let's be honest... When you see how everyone you face in Battleground is soooo good you wonder why the revive farming nerf is a big deal, it's obvious those guys don't need revive potions anywhere anyway...
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
    Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.

    So what you're saying is, it's perfectly fine for one to grind area and farm units (let's be fair that's why people grind arena) and spam revives with the units but it's not OK for people to spend the same amount of time farming revives from 3.2.6?

    You're going on like we hit 1 button to farm 1 revive in 3.2.6 when in reality it's not that fast. If we can't farm revives by ingame content then we shouldn't be allowed to farm the units in arena
    People actually invest time and energy into the Arena. They play the Fights to win the Units. They don't Auto-Play on repeat.
    So one doesn't invest time and energy into farming 3.2.6? Last I checked you have to allocate your time to it AND lose energy in order to do it. Fair trade off.

    Fair enough, you can't auto play arena but that's the only difference. So why not just remove the ability to auto play acts 1-3, the autoplay doesn't help the new players that are at level anyway as they'll just die, the only people the autopsy helps in this aspect are the bigger accounts that are 3 hits and KO
    Yes, and those Revives were included to help those newer Players, not to be taken advantage of by people doing higher content.
    As for time and energy, "Enter Auto Repeat" isn't the same as actually playing the game.
    This is a pretty silly argument because have the game open = playing the game. It doesn't matter what you're doing or not doing. From the business side of it, it doesn't matter what you're doing in the game. As long as the game is opened daily, it's a win for the company. That's why we get daily log in rewards. It's not for the benefit of the player, it's to give the player base a reason to log in every day.

    It's simple. Every decision is for the business. Daily log calendars create daily users. Not having farmable resources means spending units on those resources. If you're spending units on resources to get through content, you can't save units. If you can't save units, the only option is to buy the big deals and then spend those units on unit deals.
    Which is exactly what they want us to do .... spend more money
    You don't have to spend money to save the Revs we get and go in with a number of Units. People want a Bounty quicker-picker-upper.
    I don't believe I said that I did ... no need to put words in my mouth now. It is very clear they are hoping this change will encourage more spending for revives. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you 🤷‍♂️
    People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.
  • SearmenisSearmenis Member Posts: 1,628 ★★★★★
    edited March 2023
    I was wondering, and correct me if I m wrong, where do all these people that farm 30 revives/day (more or less) get their energy refills? Because, aside from buying them directly, or through finishing EQ offers and the Sigil, (all these are money or units so they don't count as "free" in kabam logic,) the game gives you max...5 refills/ week, and if you also open your 4hrs crystals, you could get another maybe 10 if you re lucky.
    That's 15 refills/week, that may end up in 20 additional runs through a path in 3.2.6. And these runs may give you approximately 16-18 lvl 1 revives, again, each, WEEK.

    So, where all these astronomical numbers come from? Because kabam says this whole situation was monitored for more than a year, so they can distinguish someone who was hoarding refills and 4hrs crystals, from someone who uses what the game gives him. Right?
  • GrandOldKaiGrandOldKai Member Posts: 789 ★★★★
    Searmenis said:

    I was wondering, and correct me if I m wrong, where do all these people that farm 30 revives/day (more or less) get their energy refills? Because, aside from buying them directly, or through finishing EQ offers and the Sigil, (all these are money or units so they don't count as "free" in kabam logic,) the game gives you max...5 refills/ week, and if you also open your 4hrs crystals, you could get another maybe 10 if you re lucky.
    That's 15 refills/week, that may end up in 20 additional runs through a path in 3.2.6. And these runs may give you approximately 16-18 lvl 1 revives, again, each, WEEK.

    So, where all these astronomical numbers come from? Because kabam says this whole situation was monitored for more than a year, so they can distinguish someone who was hoarding refills and 4hrs crystals, from someone who uses what the game gives him. Right?

    The Energy Refills can occasionally spawn on that same map.
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★

    People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.

    Unless there is a drastic change in content design, any new endgame content will need revives. All existing end game content also needs revives. Availability of revives has been reduced. What do you think happens?

    Realistically players only have two choices - not to attempt endgame content or buy the revives needed to complete it. Some people will not attempt it, some others will buy revives with units. Of the ones who will buy revives with units, some will have units (or grind them in arenas) while some will buy them with money.

    As a knock on effect, since fewer people will finish endgame content - including some increased spending on it - the seasonal unit deal (Jul 4th, CW, Banquet etc.) will be a bit more valuable (since endgame rewards are now available to fewer people). Again some people will grind units for this, some will buy.

    It is naive to think that this decision was made with a view that it will have a negative revenue impact for the game. The hope clearly is that endgame players used to endgame rewards will still attempt endgame content even if it requires spending (units or money). There is no way this move would have been approved if the internal analysis implied that there would be actual revenue loss from this.

    Either that or the data shows that it is a small number of players who are revive farming to that extent (5-15K players accounting for bulk of the 100-300K revives). Consequently, despite the forum noise, actual impact on playing experience of the majority of players is relatively small.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.

    Unless there is a drastic change in content design, any new endgame content will need revives. All existing end game content also needs revives. Availability of revives has been reduced. What do you think happens?

    Realistically players only have two choices - not to attempt endgame content or buy the revives needed to complete it. Some people will not attempt it, some others will buy revives with units. Of the ones who will buy revives with units, some will have units (or grind them in arenas) while some will buy them with money.

    As a knock on effect, since fewer people will finish endgame content - including some increased spending on it - the seasonal unit deal (Jul 4th, CW, Banquet etc.) will be a bit more valuable (since endgame rewards are now available to fewer people). Again some people will grind units for this, some will buy.

    It is naive to think that this decision was made with a view that it will have a negative revenue impact for the game. The hope clearly is that endgame players used to endgame rewards will still attempt endgame content even if it requires spending (units or money). There is no way this move would have been approved if the internal analysis implied that there would be actual revenue loss from this.

    Either that or the data shows that it is a small number of players who are revive farming to that extent (5-15K players accounting for bulk of the 100-300K revives). Consequently, despite the forum noise, actual impact on playing experience of the majority of players is relatively small.
    People do not have to spend to get Revives. They never have. Units are an accumulated Resource in the game. In fact, I've heard that accusation with just about every ill-received change I can think of. Apparently anything Players don't want is a coup to milk the Players.
    Would I say that a valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended? Absolutely. That undervalues it for sure. That's a bigger problem than the possibility that people might spend to get through content. That's not the sole objective.
    If they removed all Revs from the game and made them only acquirable through the Unit Store, that theory might be onto something. The reality is money only saves time in this game. People only spend when they don't want to wait.
  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,958 ★★★★★

    Stature said:

    People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.

    Unless there is a drastic change in content design, any new endgame content will need revives. All existing end game content also needs revives. Availability of revives has been reduced. What do you think happens?

    Realistically players only have two choices - not to attempt endgame content or buy the revives needed to complete it. Some people will not attempt it, some others will buy revives with units. Of the ones who will buy revives with units, some will have units (or grind them in arenas) while some will buy them with money.

    As a knock on effect, since fewer people will finish endgame content - including some increased spending on it - the seasonal unit deal (Jul 4th, CW, Banquet etc.) will be a bit more valuable (since endgame rewards are now available to fewer people). Again some people will grind units for this, some will buy.

    It is naive to think that this decision was made with a view that it will have a negative revenue impact for the game. The hope clearly is that endgame players used to endgame rewards will still attempt endgame content even if it requires spending (units or money). There is no way this move would have been approved if the internal analysis implied that there would be actual revenue loss from this.

    Either that or the data shows that it is a small number of players who are revive farming to that extent (5-15K players accounting for bulk of the 100-300K revives). Consequently, despite the forum noise, actual impact on playing experience of the majority of players is relatively small.
    People do not have to spend to get Revives. They never have. Units are an accumulated Resource in the game. In fact, I've heard that accusation with just about every ill-received change I can think of. Apparently anything Players don't want is a coup to milk the Players.
    Would I say that a valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended? Absolutely. That undervalues it for sure. That's a bigger problem than the possibility that people might spend to get through content. That's not the sole objective.
    If they removed all Revs from the game and made them only acquirable through the Unit Store, that theory might be onto something. The reality is money only saves time in this game. People only spend when they don't want to wait.
    True, but this change is the firs one that will essentially bar players form completing content w/o spending. That's why it's such a big deal IMO.

    And I'm sure they'll add an extra revive to the apothecary and hope we all accept it.
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