**WE ARE NO LONGER Temporarily Reverting Tier 1 War Ban System**

After further discussion, the game team has made the decision not make adjustements to the ban system.
The previously proposed fix would have resolved the issue for Summoners who are on the cusp of T1/T2 play, and negatively impacted Alliances more securely in T1. Instead, we recommend that cusp Alliances switch to Manual Placement to your members to place the allotted 5 Ban Champions limit there.

Apologies for the back and forth, and for any confusion.
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Kabam please tell me its a lie cheaters got…

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    HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Posts: 816 ★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    I've never been asked to rob a bank either.

    What a stunning lack of a sense of scale/common sense. Comparing helping someone in a game to bank robbery?

    You think you’d never try to rob a bank? You’ve just never been in the circumstances where you’d have to consider it (like people in Lebanon forced to rob banks for their own money).

    This is why I can’t take your opinion on this matter seriously; you judge without even considering what it must have been like to walk in their shoes…
    We're talking about a racketeering apparatus in a mobile game. Not a loaf of bread to feed the family. Let's be real.
    Racketeering indeed! What an upstanding citizen you are. I'll bet you dutifully report people for helping each other with homework too.

    I, for one, agree with your logic. People who make guides should be in jail too. Think of the poor people who didn't learn to figure out node counters by themselves! Oh the humanity!
    Your rationale is flawed. I'm talking about Mercs. People who accept money for services that are against ToS. Not people who provide guides for the game. I have no idea how you can equate the two, but one does not justify the other.
    Genuine question since I was not playing during those times. Did the TOS always spell out that others cannot login to your account when the game started or were they added later on?
    I definitely remember not wanting to engage in it for fear I could be banned so people definitely knew the risks. This was at the top of the game btw and for AW and clearing extremely hard content very early on.

    Another thing I'd like to see Kabam crackdown on is account selling but that's probably really hard to do.
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    Manyarrows1Manyarrows1 Posts: 23
    edited June 2023
    Breaking a TOS is neither illegal or immoral. It is just breaking the rules of a game company. Not even really breaking a contract, per se. If it were Kabam would press charges or file suit. The only consequence is getting that account banned. It doesn't prevent you from starting another account.

    If someone has fun selling accounts or cheating the system, and are willing to suffer the consequences, I say let them go for it.

    At the end of the day it takes no money from my pocket or Kabams, people are going to spend regardless.

    Now if someone was hacking our credit card numbers, thats illegal. Writing people did something illegal by mercing or modfing is libel and defamation. The injured parties could feasibly file suit.

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★
    BigBlueOx said:

    Kabam Jax said:

    Hey Summoners,

    This thread really gained some traction over the weekend!

    It's Monday, and the day is just starting in Maple Syrup Time, but I'll ask around to get further details on this topic.

    What I can say with absolute certainty is: there was not a package sent explicitly to players who were banned.

    There have been numerous comps, and packages sent in the past weeks (including one that welcomes back inactive players who have not played in a lengthy period of time). It is not welcoming back cheaters after a ban. If I had to guess, that's what's being discussed completely without context in this video.

    That’s a great confirmation and I think a reasonable starting point. The question remains did the cheaters get one of the automated inactive player packages? Because that still feels wrong if they did, also would love to understand why/if these cheaters are still eligible for AW season 42 and BGs season 8 rewards? It’s great that the champs they earned were taken away regardless of rank but it still feels wrong that they could still get high tier rewards in competitive content due to tier rating or BGs score prior to the bans (that they earned with the confiscated champ)
    They did get the packages. Multiple cheaters have confirmed it after their ban timer was up. They send these packages out automatically, it just seems they've yet to account for accounts forced to take time off. Also, do we know that they get season rewards? I thought it's always been the case that they remove any points they can find were earned in non legit ways, but I could definitely be wrong.
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    PikoluPikolu Posts: 6,928 Guardian

    BigBlueOx said:

    Kabam Jax said:

    Hey Summoners,

    This thread really gained some traction over the weekend!

    It's Monday, and the day is just starting in Maple Syrup Time, but I'll ask around to get further details on this topic.

    What I can say with absolute certainty is: there was not a package sent explicitly to players who were banned.

    There have been numerous comps, and packages sent in the past weeks (including one that welcomes back inactive players who have not played in a lengthy period of time). It is not welcoming back cheaters after a ban. If I had to guess, that's what's being discussed completely without context in this video.

    That’s a great confirmation and I think a reasonable starting point. The question remains did the cheaters get one of the automated inactive player packages? Because that still feels wrong if they did, also would love to understand why/if these cheaters are still eligible for AW season 42 and BGs season 8 rewards? It’s great that the champs they earned were taken away regardless of rank but it still feels wrong that they could still get high tier rewards in competitive content due to tier rating or BGs score prior to the bans (that they earned with the confiscated champ)
    They did get the packages. Multiple cheaters have confirmed it after their ban timer was up. They send these packages out automatically, it just seems they've yet to account for accounts forced to take time off. Also, do we know that they get season rewards? I thought it's always been the case that they remove any points they can find were earned in non legit ways, but I could definitely be wrong.
    Historically, cheaters in AW get docked points, but still pretty much get Plat 1 rewards. This has been a point of frustration for quite a long time.
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★
    Pikolu said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    Kabam Jax said:

    Hey Summoners,

    This thread really gained some traction over the weekend!

    It's Monday, and the day is just starting in Maple Syrup Time, but I'll ask around to get further details on this topic.

    What I can say with absolute certainty is: there was not a package sent explicitly to players who were banned.

    There have been numerous comps, and packages sent in the past weeks (including one that welcomes back inactive players who have not played in a lengthy period of time). It is not welcoming back cheaters after a ban. If I had to guess, that's what's being discussed completely without context in this video.

    That’s a great confirmation and I think a reasonable starting point. The question remains did the cheaters get one of the automated inactive player packages? Because that still feels wrong if they did, also would love to understand why/if these cheaters are still eligible for AW season 42 and BGs season 8 rewards? It’s great that the champs they earned were taken away regardless of rank but it still feels wrong that they could still get high tier rewards in competitive content due to tier rating or BGs score prior to the bans (that they earned with the confiscated champ)
    They did get the packages. Multiple cheaters have confirmed it after their ban timer was up. They send these packages out automatically, it just seems they've yet to account for accounts forced to take time off. Also, do we know that they get season rewards? I thought it's always been the case that they remove any points they can find were earned in non legit ways, but I could definitely be wrong.
    Historically, cheaters in AW get docked points, but still pretty much get Plat 1 rewards. This has been a point of frustration for quite a long time.
    Understandably so. I imagine it would be fairly easy to just... not send them rewards. Even something as simple as changing their "Wars participated in" tracker to 0 would be enough to deny them eligibility. Hopefully with cheaters getting all of this attention lately, they'll rethink it.
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    doctorbdoctorb Posts: 1,747 ★★★

    DL864 said:

    What video?

    There was already a fake forum post going around related to these bans. I think this screenshot is worth taking with a grain of salt, especially when we’re relying on the word of people who were banned for playing dishonestly. If it was actually given, I think there’s zero chance it was sent intentionally to people coming back from a ban. But if it was unintentionally sent, I sure hope it’s undone.

    I don't think I've ever disagreed with you before but first time for everything. If Kabam had done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything in regards to cheating I would agree with you, but as most of us know, Kabam deserves the opposite of the benefit of the doubt based on historical precedent.
    Your dislike of Kabam doesn't stop proof being a black and white thing. Proof is not a screenshot of one ingame mail, no account name included, not even of one member that KT alleges.

    If it's true, then Kabam can answer whether it was a mistake and what they'll do about it to fix it. Until then, I forgot it was guilty until proven innocent...
    This isn't a "oh he hates Kabam" sort of situation though. It's not like this distrust is caused by hate cause oh well he just hates Kabam, no this distrust is caused by the mountain of balancing, bugs, cheater issues etc that have plagued the game for the past 4-6 months. So you can't really blame people for taking this whole situation at face value, especially considering a lot of the people who were banned are top spenders.
    If this turns out to be a lie then good for Kabam, we'll all stand corrected but until they say something (which I doubt they will) people are free to think whatever they want to think.
    He was responding to a comment that said "Take this with a grain of salt, we're trusting the words of cheaters", and basically saying Kabam don't deserve a grain of salt, and lets trust the cheaters. That is not a logical response, it's an emotional one to fit in with not liking Kabam or their decisions.

    I agree people can think whatever they want, but if they decide they *know* what happened based on a screenshot and the word of the modders and cheaters who got banned - they probably aren't thinking about it too smartly. Like I said, I don't know for sure what happened, but neither do you, or Chatter. So that's literally all Cat and I are saying. If you disagree with that, then you either don't take proof seriously enough and believe anything on the internet as long as it suits your opinion, or you trust modders way more than is reasonable.
    Giving an incompetent company (who couldn't or didn't want to get rid of arena bots for years cause they didn't care and also allowed these same modders to remain in top 500 GC during a full season of BGs) the benefit of the doubt isn't really thinking about it too smartly either imo, especially when the people banned were top spenders. Now, do I believe this whole situation is 100% real and I'm grabbing torches and pitchforks? Nah. Am I leaning more towards it being real than fake? Absolutely. I don't trust Kabam as much as I used to, I'm sure we all have our reasons.
    But you trust a former merc/cheater who constantly has to stir the pot to get views?
    When did kt1 cheat?? I watch his videos all of the time and don't remember this happening.....I mean, as far as stirring the pot......kabam has a self stirring pot. It stirs itself by existing lol. All I see is someone in the community, who has a voice using that voice and platform to take the side of the players.....I find it hard to not get behind that???? Again.....unless I completely missed something and he cheated....I just don't remember that
    Back in the day he was a merc back when account sharing in competitive aq allys was the norm. Heck some allys required someone to have your account details. It's funny seeing some of these older accounts on here commenting and acting like they didn't do it. Everybody was doing it then some of the top allys started to complain rightfully so about it in aw and kabam started to dock points. Mercs and account sharing has always been apart of this game not saying its right but kabam has failed to drop the hammer on them. So imo they own a big part of the blame. I believe these accounts did get a welcome back package. I don't think it was intentional but for a company that screws up about once a month it wouldn't surprise me. Now all the white knights will come out and defend kabam and call kt1 a cheater to try and discredit him. Always the same people saying kabam was right and there's no evidence.
    I'm one of those old accounts you're talking about. I've never account shared. Ever.
    I've been around for over 5 yrs and I've never acct shared either. Not every long time player share acct
  • Options
    BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Posts: 1,615 ★★★★★

    Pikolu said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    Kabam Jax said:

    Hey Summoners,

    This thread really gained some traction over the weekend!

    It's Monday, and the day is just starting in Maple Syrup Time, but I'll ask around to get further details on this topic.

    What I can say with absolute certainty is: there was not a package sent explicitly to players who were banned.

    There have been numerous comps, and packages sent in the past weeks (including one that welcomes back inactive players who have not played in a lengthy period of time). It is not welcoming back cheaters after a ban. If I had to guess, that's what's being discussed completely without context in this video.

    That’s a great confirmation and I think a reasonable starting point. The question remains did the cheaters get one of the automated inactive player packages? Because that still feels wrong if they did, also would love to understand why/if these cheaters are still eligible for AW season 42 and BGs season 8 rewards? It’s great that the champs they earned were taken away regardless of rank but it still feels wrong that they could still get high tier rewards in competitive content due to tier rating or BGs score prior to the bans (that they earned with the confiscated champ)
    They did get the packages. Multiple cheaters have confirmed it after their ban timer was up. They send these packages out automatically, it just seems they've yet to account for accounts forced to take time off. Also, do we know that they get season rewards? I thought it's always been the case that they remove any points they can find were earned in non legit ways, but I could definitely be wrong.
    Historically, cheaters in AW get docked points, but still pretty much get Plat 1 rewards. This has been a point of frustration for quite a long time.
    Understandably so. I imagine it would be fairly easy to just... not send them rewards. Even something as simple as changing their "Wars participated in" tracker to 0 would be enough to deny them eligibility. Hopefully with cheaters getting all of this attention lately, they'll rethink it.
    Just want to highlight this idea because it’s a great one. That’s exactly what should happen. GC scores should also be set done to zero, or even better a negative 999 like they do with units
  • Options
    startropicsstartropics Posts: 669 ★★★★

    @Demonzfyre reading comprehension -10. No, my suggestion is: do your job (which you're getting paid for) cause right now it doesn't even look like you care, hence all the issues I just mentioned in less than 4 months.

    So they're banned but people still get matched with them quite frequently in GC, got it! That's some next level logic right there.

    You don't know who gets banned or when they get banned so how do you even know you're getting matched with a hacker/modder who was banned/is banned?

    "Doing their job" is exactly what I said. You want there to be no bugs which is what you consider a "heathier direction". You obviously think it's easy to run this game smoothly for as many devices it can with as many different connections there are, so what are they missing? Why can't they get it right but somehow you have the knowledge to do it?
    You don't, because they're not getting banned, did the sarcasm on that comment really fly over your head like that?

    No it's not, doing their job right would be fixing some of the other issues I mentioned as well which are actually more important than bugs and latency, I don't know why you keep focusing on the issue that matters the least.
    I also never said the game has to be perfect and run smooth for everyone, that's just you twisting my words to kiss up on the forums as per usual. There will always be issues in the game which is understandable, but when you have that many issues every single month, someone is obviously not doing their job right.
    Again, you seem to think those issues you mentioned should have been fixed by now. So how do they fix it since they can't do it? You seem to think they're issues that are issue to resolve, so what's the answer?
    That's a very odd question. It's not that Kabam can't, they obviously can cause they have fixed similar issues before, they're just not giving those issues enough attention. At no point in any of my comments have I said they can't, they can they just don't care enough about some of them. They've banned people manually in BGs before, we even had a season with zero cheaters in top 500, now they can't do it? They obviously can.
    What benefit does Kabam get for not fixing things you said? Why wouldn't they fix input issues, lag or bugs if they can? There's not any benefit for them leaving anything in the game if they have the capabilities of fixing them. But obviously you have some sort of inside knowledge to know they don't care and whatnot.

    Just like you said, no one should take you seriously keyboard warrior.
    Correct, they're just lazy. Are you always this dense? I keep having to spell everything out for you bud.

    1. I said forum warrior not keyboard warrior, which doesn't apply to me since I don't live on these forums 24/7.
    2. That wasn't directed at you but if the shoe fits, wear it I guess 🤣
    Breathe. Take a step back.
    anyone else imagine this?


  • Options
    BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Posts: 1,615 ★★★★★
    edited June 2023
    .
    Keonex said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    Kabam Jax said:

    Hey Summoners,

    This thread really gained some traction over the weekend!

    It's Monday, and the day is just starting in Maple Syrup Time, but I'll ask around to get further details on this topic.

    What I can say with absolute certainty is: there was not a package sent explicitly to players who were banned.

    There have been numerous comps, and packages sent in the past weeks (including one that welcomes back inactive players who have not played in a lengthy period of time). It is not welcoming back cheaters after a ban. If I had to guess, that's what's being discussed completely without context in this video.

    That’s a great confirmation and I think a reasonable starting point. The question remains did the cheaters get one of the automated inactive player packages? Because that still feels wrong if they did, also would love to understand why/if these cheaters are still eligible for AW season 42 and BGs season 8 rewards? It’s great that the champs they earned were taken away regardless of rank but it still feels wrong that they could still get high tier rewards in competitive content due to tier rating or BGs score prior to the bans (that they earned with the confiscated champ)
    who would ever disagree with your comment.

    i honestly don’t understand why some folks think its ok to allow players that are known cheaters to claim top rewards in AW and Battlegrounds when its clear that the abuse in arena gave them an unfair edge i. the contest.

    its a clear choice to zero out their points and positions in competitive gameplay
    Self interested parties with low integrity is my guess
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    BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Posts: 1,615 ★★★★★
    Any chance of follow up on this?
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    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,362 ★★★★★
    Huenas said:

    I think folks are missing the point. Many of the cheaters are encouraged by kabam to prop up the top, so real spenders try to spend to keep up.

    Do you have proof of this?
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    Huenas said:

    I think folks are missing the point. Many of the cheaters are encouraged by kabam to prop up the top, so real spenders try to spend to keep up. Just like BG shows us that a huge % of the “players” are bots (or modded Accts, I’ll call bots) the whales are part of the overall experience to keep folks engaged in what appears to be healthy, active community of players spending to get the faster/bigger hampster wheel.

    Everyone gets a wheel, you just get to pick what size you want.

    Best thing you can do is not spend a $ on the app and if you find yourself spending more time complaining about the app on the forums, instead of playing the app, find a new app.

    They always have and always will reward cheaters as they help kabam to keep moving the goal posts.

    Expecting anything different would be a display of insanity

    found one of the botters
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,951 Guardian

    Breaking a TOS is neither illegal or immoral. It is just breaking the rules of a game company. Not even really breaking a contract, per se. If it were Kabam would press charges or file suit. The only consequence is getting that account banned. It doesn't prevent you from starting another account.

    If someone has fun selling accounts or cheating the system, and are willing to suffer the consequences, I say let them go for it.

    At the end of the day it takes no money from my pocket or Kabams, people are going to spend regardless.

    Now if someone was hacking our credit card numbers, thats illegal. Writing people did something illegal by mercing or modfing is libel and defamation. The injured parties could feasibly file suit.

    This is at best an extremely misleading misunderstanding of the law.

    Technically, it is true that breaking a TOS is not in and of itself a crime, at least in the US. However, that's because the TOS is a contract, and violating the terms of a contract is not a crime, it is a civil breach. In other words, you don't go to jail, you get sued for damages.

    However, there's this belief among internet armchair lawyers that since breaking the TOS is not a crime, you're free to do it without consequences. That's not true. Kabam explicitly states that their service is only offered under terms. If you play the game willingly ignoring those terms, that is technically theft of service. Kabam owns the game and the service, you aren't just allowed to do whatever you want with it. If Kabam says "you can only play this game if you agree to those terms" they can't force you to agree to the terms, but they can expect you won't play the game if you don't. If you do, you can theoretically be sued for damages by the company. Game companies typically don't do this of course, but this is the legal basis for game companies suing players that draw their attention with especially problematic behavior. For example, players that make cheating tools that get used on a widespread basis. They can not only ban such players, they can sue them for violating the terms of service of the game.

    Furthermore, Kabam can argue that someone who makes accounts repeatedly after being banned repeatedly is willfully stealing service, and possibly doing so using tactics designed to circumvent their security policies designed to prevent such activity. That in the US can be a crime.

    At the end of the day, cheating and other prohibited behavior generally hurts everyone. It just tends to do so in diffuse ways difficult to trace. Mods hurt everyone because cheating the content of the game ultimately drives up the difficulty of the game for everyone else, in the same way that cheating in a class that grades on a curve hurts everyone else - by raising the curve artificially to the benefit of a few and the detriment of everyone else. Account sharing also hurts everyone else because it also artificially increases the difficulty of the game and also - if it wasn't policed - increases the difficulty of tracking other bad behavior ("it wasn't me" or "I got 'hacked'" etc). And account selling devalues the game and its resources, which is also ultimately detrimental to the game.

    Ultimately MCOC sells an experience, and that experience is curated by the game design, the game economy, and the game content. If account selling, account sharing, or other prohibited activity was harmless or actually beneficial, Kabam would not bar it. And while they can't catch everyone, they can try to catch as many as possible, to make the risk inherent in doing these things high enough to be not worth it for most people to pursue. If you do these things and get caught, you have no one to blame but yourself.


    Also, you'd be hard pressed to make the case that saying that modders and mercs are breaking the law was libelous or defamatory. There's a basic test for libel (that's summarized in different ways), and those kinds of statements would fail those tests. One summarization of the legal test for libel is:

    1. A false statement purporting to be fact
    2. Publication or communication of that statement to a third person
    3. Fault amounting to at least negligence
    4. Damages, or some harm caused to the reputation of the person or entity who is the subject of the statement.

    "Modders are breaking the law" would fail in at least two, arguably three ways. First, most people making that statement are unaware of the fine legal technicality between criminality and civil breach, and thus could not be held negligent in their statement. Second, libel requires specifically identifying the person, because libel requires specific reputational damage to connect to a specific entity. You cannot defame anonymous people. And third, you have to specify explicit damages due to reputational harm. It is not enough to say something someone else doesn't like. But I would enjoy greatly watching a merc or modder attempt to argue in a court of law that calling them a bunch of criminals hurt their non-existent reputation.
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    BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Posts: 1,615 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:


    But I would enjoy greatly watching a merc or modder attempt to argue in a court of law that calling them a bunch of criminals hurt their non-existent reputation.

    Lol that’ll be the day, as would I.

    Unfortunately we are gonna have botting cheaters in the BGs top 10 and they are all over AW masters so I’m sure they are happily enjoying the spoils of their plunder and will laugh at us suckers playing above the board and will leave well enough alone.
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    HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Posts: 816 ★★★★
    BigBlueOx said:

    DNA3000 said:


    But I would enjoy greatly watching a merc or modder attempt to argue in a court of law that calling them a bunch of criminals hurt their non-existent reputation.

    Lol that’ll be the day, as would I.

    Unfortunately we are gonna have botting cheaters in the BGs top 10 and they are all over AW masters so I’m sure they are happily enjoying the spoils of their plunder and will laugh at us suckers playing above the board and will leave well enough alone.
    The fact that the posters here don't know exactly who these players are is beyond belief. Which is why you have to recognize it's either on purpose or they are just not concerned with the top levels in the game.
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